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congressional directory with contact information for members of congress and the biden administration. go to c-span shop.org. >> medical services library here at the new haven public library. before we begin, i'd like to thank my department for your support, especially adult supervisors godfrey and my programming partner, also doing tech support behind the scenes today as well as gina bingham, book service administrator for her constant support and mentoring. today we are joined by two incredible authors and activists. gennaro is the founder of the neural diversity project and also a journalist, producer and speaker and author of the book we are here for today, divergent mind. my camera is a little blurry.

driving in aig world that wasn't designed for you. our special guest host today, melody is an attorney, professor and award-winning author, melody is also written a series of various titles, her latest book, how an ancient poet changed my manic life. ... >> on the live stream on facebook today and, and questions try to get those answers as well. and without further humility, i will let you take it away. >> and my uncommitted, of

course. there are so many brilliant things. thank you so much for having us and i am so excited to be here to talk about and world not designed for you becausese i'm a person is striving in the world was not designed for me. it is what i saw this book, when i learned about this book, it just screamed out to me because i am bipolar disorder and in living in america during now thankfully over rated so that is when this bookra it came out. i was in the middle of all of that and during the pandemic and i just want to start off saying how are you doing someone during the pandemic and writing a book and it must've been tough for you. >> thank you melody and i'm so happy to be here in talking with you again chatting with you and thank you to the library for having us. i am doing okay, now we are kind of sort of emerging out of the

whole you know and to make it phase, we still have a ways to go up easily but what is interesting here i think for many people, the year was mixed, quiet solitude of whether interesting time for many of us read and really glad that the book "divergent mind" so many readers. and it came out in paperback and in hardcover and aac year ago in march and which was bizarre timing. but the bucket is making his way. i'm so glad. >> me to. i don't really think that the do the theou diversity project and racial start offust want to might not be knowledgeable, very interested in with the progress and can you tell us a little bit about the project and how the readers can

connect with that as well. jenara: yes totally and thank you for asking and this project, started about four years ago in berkeley, california and it was sort of the personal and professional, am a journalist and i was kind of figuring out what was going on with me and i sort of like getting small groups together to talk about nero diversity and started to share the research and different perspective and angles for this neurodiversity project as we had live events in san francisco and a conference and now doing a lot of the known instagram for anybody wants to follow along. and then last year, and started the pandemic and, before the horrific incident with george floyd. i sat down with my family we are

an interracial family and very multiracial setting like my neighborhood and my schools and i was like you know i think this is interesting this interracial life and love and friendship and like it doesn't really get examined much and so i started to reach out to the writers. and should we talk about this so we are doing this on instagram as well. we have film makers and writers and actors who are just unpacking like interracial and this is something that does not get talk about as much. so we are kind of at the beginning of that as well. so for anybody who wants to the work, instagram is the place right now. >> thank you. so we spoke a little bit before

in preparation for this, we were talking about the idea of recommendations from disability and diversions and notoriously, the garbage. [laughter] so i have asked when you see that pending and if so, you see a change inf how you see it getting better because it is still pretty bad. sue and am so intrigued by the topic of life media representation of how mental illness and neurodiversity project and how broadly, that is printed and portrayed in the media and i have a long-standing interest in film and theater and things like this. so think you see this with many differentdi groups, and marginalized groups. what happens is there are stereotypes that are in the public t imagination and has too with social norms. when you see same stereotypes

depicted on screen in this dynamic between what is happening on the ground and then what is happening in the media. so something like neurodiversity and mental illness is no exception. so i've been digging in the research so it turns out that the close of tends to be like much more intense and characters that have mental illness and people who are depicted as mentally ill are way more likely to predicted as violent much more so than actual occurrences in real life. i think it is something that we need to work against an unknown melody, your work has made a contribution to all of this. and i didn't get into that too much of the book in the little

bit at thehe end with resources and some of the book is really all about reframing our perceptions of what it means to be mentally different so whether it is autism or adhd or bipolar. i can we take ownership of the narrative again. and then ultimately change the public conversation. melody: yeah, and one of the things i wanted to bring up was i initially read the book on kindle so have 61 highlights. so on my kindle printout so at the ending, this really moment where you talk about the field of medicine needs an overhaul. on page 212 with a number of people on the loneliness on the rise, more people become ill, and the doctors who, is put in a position of needing to figure out. and the doctors are getting burned out and also need

support. other concerns in the cycle goes on without people under people being able open up a chair and connect with others about their lives. and you will on and you talk about the importance of it in that it was so precious like you did not know this was coming out during a pandemic. and it was started having read it during the pandemic initially hithat i found really comforting in terms of the reminders that i found there is a lot of are overtly spiritual wish we feel fiercely connected and now i know you, that comes from somewhere. but read that so much of that in here and i thought of like healthier the more connected we are so having been so disconnected and had connected for so long, you see that involving read. jenara: do you mean how are going to emerge from the pandemic it partied. melody: yes some divergent

people have like in terms of being familiar with a kind of disconnection that may be people who do not have that kind of makeup or not quite so familiar of not being connected and i forced to be disconnected because were living in a world that was novell for us printed or structured for us and in some i found personally, that the pandemic was not coming apart of me as it may have been on more to go people because it was a shock and for me it was like, yes i'm alone. [laughter] okay i have experienced this. i have been here. not my first rodeo on this. so yes, their lessons the people who have been able to teach for those going through the pandemic. i was a real shock for some. and you had such a great

response since the release of the book. any of her for people like me who is grateful that this came out. i know. melody: but i think he came out of the perfect moment and then a needed to, because they help not just of those of us who are dealing with neurodiversity but also a lot of people grown into that kind of loneliness and disconnected aspirated and for jillian having control over that. jenara: that is such an interesting pointed you are making. a lot of people are finding the book because maybe they have read articles are the encina other research about how women are being left out in on research regarding neurodiversity. i don't know if the pandemic is allowing more people to dive into this material because they like you are saying, so many of

us kind of live this way anyways and are supportive outside all of the time like yourself, underwriter and is like homelike my head always like thinking and that is kind of like normal for me. i see what you are saying about seeing people are not neurodiversity are signs of being much more like understanding about their family members and their colleagues and their kids and their parents. and a lot of people are saying like, or strumming on the faces because in hindsight, the realizing that one of their parents abie who is no longer alive, had xy and z, and as such a life changing experience to be able to put like a name to that.

so in terms of how we're going to emerge from this whole pandemic, i think that i do really hope that all of us, will take some of the lessons learned around what it means to live a quieter out like rushing around in this aggressive state all the time, so many neurodiversity people, we wish and actually arose something in the book and you put it up in like a postcard and i really could not believe how much you captured this moment. i'm going to paraphrase my "but her something like, i look forward to the day when what is considered, it's not grabbing me. because i m think that obviously

we did not anticipate this. happening in the context of a pandemic i think that many neurodiversity were in a way was hoping that the world would quite down one day. so here it is my look forward to the day when what is currently hidden sensory world for many people, becomes the global norm. labeled as sensory ailments actually hold promise for filming a fractured in the traumatized world, is in desperate need of repair. so i was meditating about this topic for the last several years like manyg of us. and in a way that the pandemic to date force like sort of this according him thing and obviously is not in the way that we wanted all. lino sofer perhaps has people thinking.

melody: so in the beginning of the book, how we need to start read determining what it means to be human which really quickly is on when you talk about how knowing what neurodiversity is how they make up at least 20 percent of the population begins with the concept of normal and enormously ill and really talking about as a whole, rather than a set of neuro- typical versus the neurodiversity individuals in the 70 neurodiversity people go undiagnosed, maybe it would amaze be human. like that it still - i feel like a different concept, justice for so many people, like that is not or because it's understanding that different concept like what is that or what doors does that open for people. have been shut out before.

melody: yeah, so i've been thinking about this a lot lately read i think it is interesting because the deeper you get into like neurodiversity researcher talking with neurodiversity people or interviewing them, i don't know if it is just me because that is like my world and just see through everything that lens and kind of that color. it's actually becoming more difficult to see neurodiversity totu be honest. because it's also the more you talk to people and people open up with you and you kind of like they take off and and remove all of those layers, you start to realize that some of these things are very universal. and so i think that's important for people to know and the reason why we do not currently see the world in that way is because we have this culture of

being really closed off. people are not encouraged encouraged to be talking about their emotional helper there challenges. are there waiting to see the doctor for something where we just don't have it in our culture but imagine if it was mamore open. when we be at a point where we would even need this kind of terminology of normal rm normal or neurodiversity. i believe that's the direction heading into and we will get there some way and so a lot of us who are activists and advocates and writers in the neurodiversity spacers in some ways kind of the early helm of this kind of thinking. melody: makes me think about like the labeling and there's a part of the book where you know if the being to finally give a name to an experience in the healing and liberating and at the beginning, and the garcia

did you say plus i embrace my own labels and categories of a truly racemic of my family present colleagues on board, i almost didn't need them anymore. one site learned about them, we all adjusted it and it now i have a thriving life meltdowns and all. so is this idea of like embracing the labels. it's exactly what my experience has been to find in the label incredibly liberating at first and then to be like, what is mean. i am wondering what that has been like for you and you write about this in the book for sure but it must give you relief because i think were providing a different outlet for people. and not through just your own experience but all of the incredible research that you do to put this together which is based on your ability to hyperfocus. it like i am so grateful for your ability to hyperfocus.

as you have all this material together in a way that it was so not just easily and easily digestible but so yeah, i'm sure or incurious about this idea of labels now this is liberating then when does install becoming liberating or no longer necessary and how that has been for you and how it has been or how the leaders have dealt with it. jenara: thank you so much providing that thread inav a so-called here how it resonates for you and hopefully everyone was watching and listening. i tend to describe this is labels are entry points, they are entryways read they are entryways to empowerment, liberation, knowledge, to be informed and a talk a lot about that in the book about the real importance of this knowledge and information and for me to find that so healing to just kind of have something and say a okay

habit and then you absorb it. so think for many neurodiversity people who are kind of discovering themselves and maybe they're jumping into some of the activism and the neurodiversity movement. it is something is very exciting. it's really important work and then like to quote your reading, once he gets integrated into your life. your family and your work and your sense of identity read you just don't, something that just doesn't even need to be said because it's just a part of you and people know it and this birdlikepa integration. so as not to to say that those things aren't important. i think everyone has their own journey with us and t i really o encourage people to do what works for them. and i think that some people

continue on like this really kind of find like the new network or space around this particular label or diagnosis. for other people to get integrated and they just kind of continue to think their lives and they just have a different perspective and a shift that is how they see themselves. something for me personally, it was a journey of like learning about neurodiversity and the movement and i've been thinking about this kind of approach and i didn't have the word for it so that was exciting and then running about how were left out of the research on autism and adhd and and adhd and really focusing on the sensitivity and how it was so prevalent and for people no matter what your label or diagnosis was.

and then look at talk about anesthesia which is trading of senses. [inaudible]. and is so, and that was like a process of opening up about all of this to my family and two people i worked with. and then certainly the book is coming out was, very healing as well, kind of like a relief. kind of like releasing this into the world and now it has been a year. and it is awesome seeing how people responded and everybody has a different story and entryway to the book. themselves or their parents or saying this. i hear from a lot of therapist actually are saying how much is impacting their practice and it recommended it to their clients which is really exciting week want change in the therapeutics industry. and is alsoo allowed me to move

on to other things pretty, journalist, we have this interracial project going at send a matter what i do in my life and professionally, the neurodiversity work is such a huge part but it gets integrated into whatever i do next. so think it is also exciting for people to know and for anyone watching and listening in your own life, he will have different periods of discovery and integration. and that is okay, it's okay for this to become part of your larger story and you're not going to leave it behind soy for like some people think they have to kind of keep sticking with this movement or something. and if you feel that way. melody: yes, i>> feel that way completely. you're stuck in that initial diagnosis and label and it

actually means later on once is no longer with us. like you, you have written about it. once you write about a your public. no one can help you. you're not only owning it mature helping other people and again, i saw myself in this book so much. i'm so grateful for what you did because it wasn't - it was the best book that i read in all of 2020 am so grateful for it. because it wasn't just that book, is everybody in the book and every other book that array because of the book. he was joyful like i love that because the other books that you write the underwriters, often women. they've written really important work in you digging into the research in a way that much easier for me to get a broad

sense of what is happening within this movement that i've been for so long. i'm never seen a book like this pretty so that's partly why am so grateful for it. so what are some ways in neurodiversity people can engage with body awareness practices to honor how overwhelming into the internal centuries experiences in interception can be. a lot of different mindfulness are not very often very six accessible for neurodiversity folks freedom carries what you have. jenara: that is a great question. and so yes, i don't feel meditation a lot in the book and honestly, in my own life, on the movement person and i think that you are as well melody, like i, the type of meditation it is more like tai chi and i love to

dance and run. so for me, that is so far more appealing to me than sitting in a do this all the time for other neurodiversity people read it straight up put my meditation on does not work for them but yes, i don't know how to totally answer your question but i would just say that i would encourage people to not do what they have to of probably what they think meditation is supposed to be because one people know the something screen things don't work for us and so yes. melody: that is a great concert predict the effect i'm not saying he still at all. so his mother part in here this is a lot of teachers like professionals and parents tend to tell me that i am wrong but i think about my own experience because they learned a different

way or that that research says nothing else with would you suggest putting those situations in academic people understand it all the research in the world does not another covid-19's parents, sometimes it feels like myself advocacy. jenara: that we saw the sins and i hear about all i think that again like we are kind of in the beginning it a lot of this especially in terms of representation of women and girls and is so this is quite think it's important to taken narrative into your own hands from one in the second thing is that i don't believe that one when diagnosis is necessary for a minute important be honest. i think that if we are working with a medical industry that is based on research that is literally 30 years old, 20 - 30

years for the research to integrated and practice, then how can you let those people tell you who you are or who you are not. so think that's really cute you. move will find many people out there who are self identified. and as i read in the book, i did not go to that form of diagnostic rent because what i am talking about. having said for some people, it's usually important and make sense and you need it for accommodations in the classroom and at work so it really just depends on your particular individual situation. so again, were just at the beginning. for the person who asked the question to know bit there so many people out there like that. melody: is a great hands are free to sort of a question for both of us what helps you integrate your labels predict

recommendations for supporting somebody who is beginning the process of integrating if different aspects of neurodiversity. jenara: is people in the other part of the question as well. he deserves aca moment when i ws actually told my husband like if i could leave me right now i would leave me. and him being able to say this is not a new development for you. and now you have a label for a soap you're not a different person. that was one of the things that was helpful to me. how about you. melody: yes that's interesting. what helped me integrate it. it is a gradual process read i think like in the beginning for me, it was like a lot of moments like i remember the day and did research was popping up in my facebook feed. about how women were being left out.

and then i read it these things and i was like this captured me to a t like how i never heard of this. and so there's those initial moments of oh my gosh, and then just being a journalist and then you have that thread of like okay let me dive into this and what is is all about and and let me find out what is going on. more and more and more. and so there's that initial period of discovery and then, then gradual like when i think i took one step at a time, building information, then slowly opening up to like family and friends. i think more serious about it and that's how the book was born. the emergent mind is totally came out of this whole process of discovery heard and then you just get more and more comfortable like as you're more open, like we were just saying a few minutes ago, it just becomes

integrated into t your life ando the more that you can stay grounded in like your own knowledge of who you are and present that takes to the world of the people around you than it builds naturally it will get naturally integrated. jenara: there is a question here whose asking what suggestions you have for accommodations at work and i would say schools will be more importantly and can thing on what are known diversity is really like. i was not like one textbook but far more complex than what the textbookre was. melody: i think accommodation, it's an interesting topic. in the book i focus on the topic of work a lot.

it is i think it's a is such an important sign in place like agency come here in the world, in common how you treat this with your self and your family so margo who is that verizon now everybody should look her up because you know her, and you in the book we talk about the usual things but what if it in the office and having headphones and things like that but i think the more importantly, it is like the communication that happens. likehe making sure that your bos and your colleagues like understand you and like where you can just kind of share what to do or what you can do and so that to me seems like it's in a really important piece because then you will feel able to be yourself and ask for what you

need. there's another thing that attack about in the book and elsewhere, is the importance of acceptance when people, feel really accepted it, but by themselves and by the people around them, there are levels of like depression and anxiety goik way down so that also means that you will be available to just do your work better. you're feelingus better so agaii think that communication pieces) i would love to see schools and universities workplaces have introductory neurodiversity training for everyone. until think it requires that much. i think people just need to be educated in the information needs to be out there so i definitely recommended that in some places are doing that. some of the bigger companies but it needs to be more commonplace. melody: i think the more of us were in different industries,

like i provide accommodations as well for my students were not their disability sometimes they don't want to go to the disability resource center say disability can you provide accommodations rated and i think they find like are they willing to provide accommodations they don't necessarily have to go that specific route to get those accommodations. so is another question here from sarah glass, what is the course for the neurodiversity. jenara: so everyone probably knows like so the treatment is like hello streaky because we don't want to get into like, share talk and things like that. it's a if we are talking about practices like the just support well-being, there is a great conversation to help and so in terms of the evolution of where

that is all going it, i interviewed a lot of therapist for the book and grace who is here in california, is great and she make sure that there are no food in the office for example so that people senses are not getting overwhelmed and she keeps things low and she even make sure that the fan in the ventilation are not too loud. then she also keeps like soft materials that she is like very sensitive to what we feel therapeutic and again for adults which is really important. like a lot of these conversations is on kids and small and boys and so it so encouraging that we have practitioners now really seeing the adult population so yeah, then honestly i feel like a lot

of neurodiversity people kind of find their own like hodgepodge like wellness or the kind of did with them things together like melody like unite, we both love like dance and movement and then helps us feel grounded it and regulated and that kind of thing. and again for me, i spent a lot of time in nature. unlike always going on walks and hikes. and then certainly the sort of classic therapist can be helpful but again therapist is not informed around like since rates of and neurodiversity stuff, they're just on medications and then i'm intrigued by some of the like practitioners out there again i feel like a lot of those practitioners, they don't know

that much about the whole neurodiversity perspective and some are extremely cautious that i want everyone to know is that there is an element in the kind of like the medical world where people want to see everything to like they link it to trauma or they just want to say like, or you're having this because of x. and this things need to be looked at. and i just like, i really disagree with that and i think that is like formal. this kind of resistance and some of that therapeutic a community because they have been trained to really only see things through the lens l of, and so i think that is dangerous. i'd really do so i want to caution people to if you encounter that, to know that actually that's a big extreme is something that you don't want to push against and havoc, in the "divergent mind" it started off with looking the history of

psychiatry and psychologist and people tend to become so fundamentally and wanting to pin everything on one aspect of one's life and that is the kind of thing the week really want to get away from. and also i feel so strongly that individuals can begin put together their own narrative or cases truly find helpful enough to kind of just submit to one thing. hope this all makes sense. melody: makes much sense. and you creating that own narrative for yourself. and i says that throughout the book like some people through the behavior, i was somebody as you maybe not quite as much. but knowledge, like the research and the stuff that is so, the things we do to learn about

ourselves. and the doctor sometime says to not google it. out that google the best way, read a book. this therapeutic and i think people forget that. so wasn't therapeutic it to you in terms of being the writer. it was as part of your find that narrative for yourself as well. jenara: yeah, i think so. i was just talking with steve silverman the other day and people were talking about my journey and i was saying how that writing this book was kind of like investigative journey. i'm a journalist so this wasga y chance to divan and so it very much was simon tenuous costs at the process of them on this journey like discovery and i'm going to figure out what i need to know what's empowering for me and yes, what is it what is the story that iwe need to like

reclaim and then hearken all of this information help everyone else out there that is on the same journey because there's so many of us out there. and yet so that is what came out, is personal story. a real hope for other people to find their own sort of healing journey. melody: if i can japan it is a question for both of you. do you have aside from this, underwriting us for a while, do you guys have any other recommendations of books that people can read that are up-to-date and reflect more accurately, the experiences of the more divergent the necessarily like a psychological type of book or something more scientific. sue and melody do have a feeling of that brightest before can actually go to our twitter feed and you will find a list.

we put this together and i'm not just of him because is my list. [laughter] of the south are spent we put together actually a good stellar list that i will retweet right now.ea jenara: thank you melody. so yes, his troop on twitter i do often like shadow of the books and headed to my twitter, i have given like a list and a lot of people really appreciated predict these worksm actually that came out in 2020 along that enrollment in five neurodiversity authors in different fields buried this will be love to siegfried and it needs to be in the realm of psychology but there is a chef on there, and academic on there, there is a virtual reality expert on there. that's what we want to see, near diversity knowledge and expertise integrated into the wider realm.

so in terms of my recommendations on twitter and actually think that the book of doing harm, and verbal, is all about bias in medicine the focuses more on like issues and that is just a really important work and i always recommend that walker and nick walker and he is done a lot of blogging pieces actually around neurodiversity terminology in sort of like changing our perspective within psychology read and i always recommend nero tribes. and there is a lot and i did this with this book as well. >> thank you predict we give the other questions printed there's a bunch more there will be enough time to go through them

all rated can take some. >> meuse breaking in. you can pick one to start in the follow-through it. melody: but there is one here that is gradually integrating my label including others read however it feels like i am becoming more of a target at work. and it doesn't help that my psychiatrist believes inn increasing drugs as for being sick. how to avoid this target. that's an interesting question. sue and mr. interesting. i don't have like all of the information is know exactly what it means that could be a target like i don't know what your if this is somebody kind of using the neurodiversity as a scapegoat which is horrible.

so, if you are able to try different psychiatrist pretty really makes all of the differencece read and again unfortunately since a lot of this information is so new and is not integrated, it can be helpful to gotta do your own research and a lot of even like medical papers are available online know people literally have to do that. i can actually also be helpful to literally like take divergent like to your psychiatrist office for people doing. to be just like a look, there's a research behind all of this. you need to know what this is about. so this is kind of a hard and tricky question to answer without having all of the information. check out different psychiatrist impossible and bring the book to

work. melody: they have a list where you can put in different psychiatrist and see whether or not how much money they made from big pharma. this is somebody asking whether drug so you can see how this, at least last i checked. and there's a great question here about whether your offering training sessions for if you have a group that y would recommend in terms of diversity training. jenara: yes so different kinds of diversity training so it depends on this specific. and i certainly will give talks and events like this and i've offered a few classes in the past. and it really depends and people can reach me and i have this divergent list of common there is a contact there so just heard

from somebody this morning who wants me to share some of the perspectives like academic conferences is really exciting i got love this information to be able to kind of penetrate different fields. feel free to reach out to me my website. >> thank you. here's a question here so i am going to send it out on twitter i just pasted it. so is right there. there are so many questions are needed to have i'm going to get one party so this is from an ominous but on his melody and give any plans on creating a workbook to go with either of your books and the other for jenara nerenberg leavy publishing a pdf for the audiences for downloads.

sue and i'll answer them in real quick the melody can answer hers. so the audiobook is available. i hadn't thought about putting together resources. the resource section appears there and also it appears in the e-book read such a great easy option that you can download on phenol and apple books in google books. so all of the resources there printed out there, just finding the right format. in t terms of workbooks to go along. the reason why i actually like it's kind of interesting mixes because this investigating the journalistic minute. though they have a lot of things that you can integrate. so i think hurt divergent minds, this is kind of on its own.

what about humility printed. melody: my latest book, i am not planning to but i'm putting and translatings it so if you on the original from the book and it will be up in my website. that's the closest thing that i got to a workbook. but i always was something together. i would love for you at some point to do those trainings read and no speaking conferences all of the time. so my dream is for you to just go to every country first. if you think of like official findings that i've done, because the trains words like a white guy giving me diversity training. [laughter] is like where is that but people doing the training, is to frequently, they are not like something to do well versus

something is another thing to identify rated whether it's in relations to raise or diversity prayed for me i just can't find it like somebody from that community. michael k read a lot of books, good for you. but you haven't lived it and for me for "divergent mind" came through was this and like you can read plenty of textbooks. one, just don't integrate so much material into one openly short topic to give you all of that mom place. just don't have that perspective of recognizing that read and you're diagnosed later in life to so that kind of like something educators out later. like why women are not part of this in terms of anything other than that, there's not the space

in order to be like, maybe i interpret the world differently. maybe that is a gift and i can figure out how to navigate the world that was not built for me. i saw you doing that over and over again and i thought that's what makes this book so simple among other things. coming from that perspective punches coming from the outside. sue and thank you. and representation is huge. this also like the wonder issue reno love to see more neurodiversity creators and writers in every field. we talk a lot about tax but honestly like hollywood and median film so they can see our stories and wider screens. that is really important. >> you guys said earlier that little later with us, maybe we

can get you a couple of questions. jenara: yes, i can take a few more rated melody are you okay with that pretty. melody: i'm good to predict i also want to say what melody just said, we agree and i know that we talked about this before we went life but i have really love this book. one of my favorite books of all time now and f i have never felt so understood and so acknowledged and so validated before this i had the sense that i'm not alone. which i'm cracking of now, that so often happens when you read these books in a written by professionals in the field of that do not have the lived experiences, they just have the academics background and it is so different hearing from another woman is diagnosed late who knows what this is like. something like when you're neurodiversity and you don't

know that you're neurodiversity, there's a tendency to feel very lost misunderstood and often you don't understand what is going on so glad that you both in this into friend in such a way that we can acknowledge that it is not a position, is a gift. that is something like i was diagnosed with autistic 31. hannah hard time accepting it at first because everything that i said, sort of implied there's some kind of a deficit. sue known very proud of my autism. some so glad that you wrote this book so hopefully other women of that experience to not have a hard time accepting things they can realize that makes them more beautiful. jenara: thank you for sharing that is so important i'm so that that resonated.

>> question here from an ominous. have youou heard about the auti, and the spectrum, ton of celebrities up the autistic twitter. the organization like autism speaks and problematic in a lot of ways and so many nonprofits from neurodiversity communities in particular seem to have a lot of controversy and problems in the typically the most well-known ones. you have advice to navigate which organizations are actually informed by neurodiversity versus those that are perpetuating harmful stereotypes. jenara: yes like the question like the person said, tends to happen a lot. like a cause will be taken up and then it gets a little controversial around like is at

the helm of this cause like fundraising organization or film and so getting us back to what melody and i were talking about like the representation is so huge. and i think that people in a wider world need to take that really seriously and so i don't have a specific recommendation around certain organizations or think like that and i have seen a little bit of it on twitter recently. but again, think it just speaks to needing to shift the conversation as much as possible. to putting these kind of efforts into the hands of people with lived experiences. i think thate. is just going to take time. i think the twitter community and then neurodiversity community at large is very good

being vocal and really expressing the issues well. and i think a lot about in terms of history and looking at how things like eventually come together and get integrated into the world and starts with these individual actions and so i think we will see it soon and i think that we will be reaching a turning point. i think that is been really exciting, melody and i've connected recently multiple times a lot of other writers creators and filmmakers and producers party to so it is just going to keep sort have pushing where more or less gets kind of a design and i just encourage everyone to keep going.

melody: i was going to into another question so if you have about masking targeted and how i was interested in an unconscious reaction of the pay trek from patriarchy. and that happened whether you are divergent or not bridges happens all the time especially with women. they wondered how much further out you can take that. jenara: link that is a great question. so yes, for everyone watching or listening, the masking, means a lot in this community where, why does a person have to do in order to kind of get on in the world will kinds of things do we have to hi do not appear normal.

and it can take a toll on someone after a while and that pressure just builds up and a lot of people end up just falling apart melting down shutting down then many of us reached a point where we are like, not going to do this anymore. is not working for me. i totally agree. so there's something that i put in the after works in the paperback version. just the way that like that nero norman norma timothy pretty slowly think of as normal is often it like i whiteness so this excessively proper detached closed off like not real energy

and way of interacting with people in many different words for this. i find it really critical to connect those two visa feel like collectively, our countries reconciling with this prayed and so we have these sub pockets of this communities that are also talking about this. so there is the synergy of like hey, what is this. so why do we expect people to behave a certain way or act a certain way and who decides what is normal and what is not normal was behind it that. in the patriarchy white supremacy. so think that is a really exciting conversation i'm excited for the divided be out there more. and really excited to see what we go with this and i think the artists, think are really important in this process and think the more that really created people integrate these

kindss of perspectives and their work. and in films and media, andh using exhibits and even life social media activists predict i think the more that these expectations get on and then the sooner it will evolve. >> if you will be able to answer this one but, she asked that jenara nerenberg i read your book and i agree with you and i absolutely love simoni that individuals have these ideas around a better future for humanity and how would've more diverse an idea for sitcom on the truth and that

neurodiversity invite others to collaborate with. jenara: yes that is a great question and thank you for asking it as though i actually am thinking about this a lot and i have a friend who are mostly friends of color who are collaborating with in hollywood to change the narrative around race representation read is so awesome and so we have been in conversation around how to do disability representation with mental illness representation and other representations of those something that i'm actively thinking about it really excited to follow up on and i think this would be a gradual process, and getting to the industry better and learning like was using like finding people where we can all putter

heads together around what will this look like. an incubator or in hollywood like you talk about like pipelines craters like haley make that pathway easier. and for the people to go from story ideas to being in a writers room set. and so for people who are watching or listening it, feelat free to reach out. ... ... there's so extremely competitive and usually you kind of have to know someone someone needs to put in a recommendation so that can be a little tricky so we'll

see if we can build something. >> i want to be respectful of time, maybe one more question and i'll let melody wrap up. no pressure. [laughter] >> here is one. i'm not interested in diagnosis but i do want to learn more about myself, i don't think i fit into one of these labels but your boss helped me realize my anxiety and depression, overload and panic attacks and social confusion and etc. points to my note divergence but i'm not sure i don't need accommodations, what should i do to figure out my nose divergent?

good question.y what you need to do? is there anything to do? it depends on the individual, someone just seeking to be better understood, feel seen, or have a name and label for your own self-knowledge? there is a lot out h there so is my book that helps with all that because it gives b you a lot of information and share stories from other women. or are you looking for a certain kind of therapeutic approach for help in your life? certainly some people turn to certain kinds of therapists, i encourage individuals to do what works for them. it sounds like there's something

the question after is seeking, maybe get clear about what you are seeking. you need help with something? how can you make the right therapist or practitioner but? if you're just wanting more knowledge for yourself, pick up a couple of our books so it depends. i think divergent mind is great for this kind of reader, someone who just wants to figure stuff out and doesn't need an exact medical things because we are challenging that notion so yes. thank you for the questions and thank you, melody, this was really great. ♪♪ >> if you choose to research the origins of the topic being discussed frequently in the united states in recent months called critical race theory, you

will find the name derek bell, he died in 2011, he was one of the principal's originators of this much discussed subject. in november 1992, derek fell appeared unfulfilled to discuss his book faces at the bottom of the well, permanent of racism. >> the late derek bell, harvard law school first professor of us episode of book not less, listen as he sped.org/podcast or whatever you get your podcast. ♪♪ >> middle and high school students and be heard with c stands audio competition. the part of the national conversation by creating documentaries and answers the

question, how does the federal government impact your life? video on that a policy or program that affects you or your community. c-span competition has $100,000 in cash prizes and you have a shot at the grand prize of $5000. wednesday september 8 competition rules and more on how to get started, visit student.org. ♪♪ >> weekends on c-span2, and intellectual peace. every saturday you will find offense to people who explore our nation passed on american history tv. on sundays, the latest in nonfiction books for serious readers. learn, discover, explore. weekends on c-span2. ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ >> neuroscientist, the professor and department of psychology at stanford university director of stanford center for producible sites. through his research, neural imaging to understand brain systems undermine