♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ evan dell services librarian here at the free public library and we begin i would like to thank my department for your support and especially adult servicesou supervisor and my programming partner, who is also

doing tech support for us behind the scenes today. as well as gina, public service administrator for her work and mentoring and today we are joined by two incredible offers activists, jenara nerenberg and melody and jenara nerenberg the founder of the diversity project and also a generalist and a speaker in the author of her book that we are here for today. and it's her book tran10 thriving in a world that was not designed for you. our special guest todayor is melody and melody is an activist and an attorney professor and award-winning author and also written a series of titles, her latest book prescription and how it changed my manic life.

you shouldd pick this up, that s a good one. it into student viewers, if you have questions during these discussions, feel free to enter them in the chat you can also put them in the q&a button at the bottom ofan the screen to ensure they do not get lost. if you're watching us live stream on facebook today, you can come in with the questions will try to get those answered as well. without further ado, melody i will you take it away. melody:: mi and muted. it i've done so many brilliant thing since i've done. [laughter] thank you so much for having us and i'm so excited to be here to talk about this amazing book "divergent mind" thriving in a world that was not designed for you because i'm'm a person of te surviving in a world that was not designed for me so when i saw the smoke around learn about this book, it is screamed out to me.

and living in america during what is now thankfully something or other and the trump era and so that's what this book he came out in the middle of all of that. during this pandemic and i just want to start by saying how are you doing to somebody who wrote this book during the pandemic, how has it work for you. jenara: thank you melody and i'm so glad to be here talking with you. thank you to the library for having us. and, yes, i am doing okay. now we are kind of sort of emerging out of the hole you know, this could to be space we saw weeks ago obviously but it was an think that for many, the diversion people, the year was mixed. sort of this quiet solitude with the very interesting time for many of us. the really glad the book reached so many readers. today were celebrating the

paperback and hardcover and a year ago in march was bizarre timing. the book is making his way and i am so glad did. melody: me too and i really i think the work you do and diversity project and interracial project something that will start off for those who might be at knowledgeable and very interested in the things you doing. and can you tell us a little bit about project and how the reader can connect without as well. jenara: yes, so the neurodiversity project started about four years ago, in california and is sort of annexes of the personal and professional community i am a journalist and i was kind of figuring out what was going on with me and i sort of like how

to wake up, i started it getting groups together you talk about neurodiversity and then bringing the authors and to share their to bring in their perspectives and angles read by the in san francisco in a conference and now are doing a lot of this on instagram for anybody wants to follow along pretty and then last year, the start of this pandemic, before the horrific incident with georget floyd, i sat down with my family. we are in interracial family and i grew up in interracial family and i'm very multiracial life i neighborhood in my schools and i was like you know i think that this is interesting sort of nexus, this interracial love and friendship and like it really doesn't get examined of much so i started reaching out to other

writers andea again like sweet talk abouts this. so were doing that now on instagram as well and we have a lot of like film makers and writers and actors who are just unpacking into life into this topic not talked about the much predict so far that the beginning of that as well so for anybody wants to check out both of those instagram is a place right now. >> thank you so we spoke a little bit of before in preparation for this year were talking about the idea around disabilityed and mental health conditions and as you well know, so i wanted to ask do you see that changing and if so, is leading the change and how do you see h it getting better because it is still pretty bad.

sue and so i'm so intrigued by the media representation and help mental illness and divergence and disability and how he is portrayed in the media. i've long and stressed the film and theater things like this so i think you see this with many different groups like marginalized groups. happens is there are stereotypes veteran up public imagination that has to do with the sociall norm and you see these things that are like on screen and it sort of this constant conversation this dynamic between what is happeningic on the ground and tn what is happening in the media. so something like neurodiversity and disability is no exception. seven digging into this research so turns out that film close-ups

tend to be like much more intense on characters my mental illness and people are depicted as mentally ill, are way more likely to be depicted as violent much more so than actual occurrences real life. and so i think that is something that we need to work against the no melody, your work is such an amazing contribution to all oflo this. and i didn't get into that too much of the book, will but at the end of the resources and stuff of the book is really all about reframing what it means to be mentally different so whether it is adhd or bipolar or and how can we take ownership of that narrative again and then ultimately change the public

conversation. melody: can run the things that i wanted to bring up and i initially read the book so i have 61 highlights printed so the ending it, there's really precious moment when youer talk about the field of medicine needs an overhaul. with a number of people experiencing will willingness on the rise and more people become ill turn to doctors pretty that's pretty into the position of figuring out but the doctors are gettingpl burned out and alo need support. and then life goes on without people being able to open up and connect with others but their internal life, nothing will change you want and you talk about connections and the importance of that and i just thought in terms of like you know this was d coming out durig the pandemic. and having read itre during the

pandemic that i found comforting the reminders and i found theirir overtly's virtual way which i think seriously connected and now knowing where that comes from and it comes from summer. the red so much about inherently thought they were healthier the more connected we are. and i've been disconnected of her so long, how do you see that evolving. jenara: do you mean like how are going to emerge from this pandemic it. melody: yes in some ways divergent people have been good at this in a way. in terms of being familiar with the kind of disconnection. maybe people who don't have that kind of makeup, not quite so familiar with being not connected it and i think were forced to be disconnected

because were living in a world that was built for us. and structure to from us and some ways i found first length of the pandemic not quite as hard as in the may have been kind some other people because for some it was a sharp and for me is like yes, i'm alone. okay read of experiences is called depression i'm in here. nice to meet you. it's not my first rodeo on this. we get so there are lessons that people have been able to teach for those going through the pandemic and for some it was a real shock. and it know you have such great assumptions in the book and have you heard from people like me that are incredibly grateful that this came out. noah was a great for you but he came out of the perfect moment i think in that it needed to come out and help not just of those of us who deal with neurodiversity but a lot are

lonely and disconnected and inadvertently. jenara: yes, i think that is such an interesting points you are making. and i think a lot of people are fighting this book because maybe they write articles for they've seen other research about how women are being left out in research regarding diversity. it's interesting. i don't know if the pandemic is allowing more people to dive into this material because i think like you are saying, so many of us kind of lived this way anyway center sort of outside it all the time. like yourself, i'm a writer and in my head and what was i thinking and that's was kind ofg normal for me.

i seeee what you are saying abot some people who are not neurodiversity are finding much more liket understanding about the family members, their homes and their kids and their parents rated and i hear from a lot of people are saying like, tears are streaming down their faces because in hindsight they are realizing that one of the parents maybe who is no longer alive, had x, y, and z. and it is such a life experience be able to put like a name to that. yeah, and in terms of how we will emerge from this whole pandemic. i think i do really help that all of us are able to take some of the lessons and things that we have learned around what it means to live more quiet when you know, like brushing around

it in this aggressive state all the time which i think many neurodiversity people are, we wish for this actually, rustling in the book. we put it up in a quote hard really cannot believe how much it captured this moment. i'm going to paraphrase my own quote but i wrote something like him a i look forward to this day when it's considered, not grabbing it, i think obviously we do anticipate this happening in the context of the pandemic but i think that many diversions you know were in a way hoping that the world so here it is. look forward to the day when and is currently and in sensory world for many people become the global norm.

and labeled as sensory actually hold promise for feelings of fractured and traumatized world and is in desperate need of repair. so with meditating about these topics, for the last several years with many of us and in a way that the pandemic did sort of like this quieting down thing, obviously not in the way that we wanted all but perhaps has people thinking. melody: saw the beginning of the book, so we need to start reasserting about what it means to be human it really threw me and really quickly read and so on and you talk about how knowing this isal a quote direcy from the book how does knowing that neurodiversity make up at least 20 percent of the population. in our concept of normal that

are mentally ill. perhaps we are really talking about as a whole rather than a set of typical neurodiversity individuals in this money neurodiversity people go undiagnosed. what is a mean what is a mean because i feel like the different concept and you are speaking for so many people. so like that is not my own understanding that different context like what is that what dorsett open for people who have been shut out before. jenara: yeah, so i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i think it is interesting because the deeper you getnt ino like neurodiversity y research r talking to neurodiversity people are interviewing them, i don't know that it is just me because

it's like my world and i see everything through that lens that color. actually it becomes more difficult to see neurodiversity to be honest. because it's also the more you talk to people and people open up with you you kind of like take off theeo mask and remove l of those layers, you start to realize that some of these things are universal. and so i think that's important for people to know and the reason why we don't currently see the world that way is because we have this culture and people are notn encouraged to talk about their mental health of their emotional health of their challenges. needing to see a doctor for something but we just don't have it in our culture but imagine it was more open. let me be at a point where we would not need this terminology of normal and abnormal or the

urgentol or so i believe that is the direction we're heading heading in and people will get there someday. and so a lot of us who are activists and advocates and writers in the space are in some ways and in the early helm in this kind of thinking. melody: it makes me think about the labeling. like there's a part of the book where you know that to be able to finally give a name to this is liberating. at the beginning and then towards the end you say that one time i have my own labels and identifications and truly embrace them and for family friends and colleagues on board, i almost didn't need them anymore. once i learn about them, we all jested and now have a thriving life will downs and all. this idea, like embracing it

will i find this what my experience has been. the find the labels incredibly liberating a person to be like this me and i'm wondering what that was like for you and you write about this in the book for sure. and i think you are providing a different outlet for other people to see the self reflection in the book. not just through your own experience and all the incredible research that you do this together, based on your ability right like i'm so grateful tenants hyperfocus rated he managed to put all of this material together there was not easily digestible. so yeah, i'm curious about this idea of labels and how much of it was liberating and when is it no longer necessary. how that is been for you and

help the readers have commented. it. jenara: yes thank you so much for finding that thread and so cool to hear how it resonates for you'll and hopefully everyone is watching and listening. so i tended to describe this as a labels are entry points. their entryways. their entryways to empowerment, liberation, knowledge, just being informed of the talk a lot about that in the book about the real importance of this knowledge and information from you find so appealing to just grab on something and say, yes, i got it and you kind of awarded so i think for many, many neurodiversity people, hundred discovering this about themselves there jumping in some of the activism. in the movement. edit something like it is very exciting it isth really importat work. and then like the course you are

ready, actually gets integrated into your life. like your family and your work in your identity. and you just don't, is just something that doesn't need to be even said as much because it is just a part of you and people know it again is this about integrationd read says not to sy that those things aren't otimportant. i think everyone has their own journey with user to do encourae people to just do work for them. i think something will continue on like the really kind of fun with a new line of work or around this particular label or diagnosis. and further people just think it integrated in the kind of continue living their lives they just have a different perspective and a different about how they see themselves.

for me personally, it was a journey of learning about neurodiversity in the movement i have been thinking about this kind of approach and philosophy for a while. i didn't have a worst forest of those exciting. the learning about how women were left out of the research. and then really focusing on the sensitivities and how it was so prevalent for people know matter what your label or diagnosis was. then talk about this trade of the senses can cross and then it was like a process of opening up about just my family and people i worked with. and then certainly this book coming out was very healing as well like kind of a relief read like a a releasing this to the

world. and now it has been a year i think it is awesome seeing how people respond and everyone has a different story and entry way into book. it's for themselves or their parents worry sibling. i hear from of a lot of therapist were there saying how much is impacting their practice and they recommended to their clients which is really exciting we want to see changes in the therapeuticc industry and then t is also allowing me to kind of gone to other things. as a journalist and we have this project going and so no matter what i do in my life and professionally, the neurodiversity work is such a huge heart but it just gets integrated into whatever i do next. so i think that's also exciting for people to know.

and in your own life, you'll have different periods of discovery and integration that is okay, it is okay for this to become part of your larger story and you're not going to leave it behind it. if you like some people feel like it kind of has to keep sticking with this onee movement orh something. but if you feel that pretty. melody: yes, i feel that we completely. the definition of what you initially saw that diagnosis as that label, and what it actually means later on. like you, you have written about it pretty much are right about it, your publishing it's out utthere. so nobody can out you predict you are already out and running it did not just owning it that you're helping other people and again like with this diagnosis

but i saw myself in this book so much and i'm so grateful for what you did because it was the best book i've written all of 2020. it was the best book and i'm so grateful to you for it because it just wasn't that book, it's everyone in the book. it was joyful like a love that. there are other books that you haven't the other writers often women, it's really important work and you really dig into their research in a way that is much easier for me to get a broad sense of what is happening within this movement that i've been in for so long you have never seen before this. so that isha partly web so grateful for it. some more yes/no questions. so what are some ways that people can engage with practices that are into the internal

sensory experiences. i recall you naming that a large internal awareness aren't often very accessible to neurodiversity folks and am curious about this. jenara: that is a great question. so i don't focus on meditation a lot of the book read and honestly my own life, i am a movement person i think you are to melody. like the type of meditation that i'm going to are more like tai chi. and i love to dance and i like to run and some for me, all of that is far more appealing than like planting myself and sending. and i hear this all the time from other people that it straight up like it did my own meditation is not work for them. so don't know how to totally

affect that but i would just encourage people to not feel like they have to stay inside of a box h with a think meditations supposed to be. because we know so many been stream things don't work for us. melody: so yeah part of me i'm not staying still at all. [laughter] so there is another question here, so a lot of teachers professionals and parents attended tell me that i'm wrong when i speak about my own experience because they learned a different way. in the research says something else. how would you suggest responding the situations and how to make people understand that all the research in the world doesn't match the person's experience. it sometimes feels like my self advocacy falls on deaf ears. it. jenara: makes a lot of sense and hear that all the time and i

think again, like were kind of in the beginning of a lot of this especially in terms of unit representation of women and girls. so, this is why think it's important to sort of taken narrative into your hands for one in the second thing is that i don't believe the formal diagnosis is necessary or even important to be honest. for working with the medical industry based on research is literally three years old, take about 20 - 30 years for the research to get integrated into practice, then how can you let this people tell you who you are and who you are not. so thank you so really huge and will find many people out there are self identified. as run the book, i did not know

party doug of the diagnosed diagnostic route because having ensaid, for some people to usuay warning them access and they needed a classroom and networking so it reallyti depens on your individual situation. were just at the beginning. but for the personal asked the question, know that there are so many people out there like us. melody: what else you integrate your label rated give recommendations for somebody beginning the process of integrating in the different neurodiversity. jenara: this the part of the question, people, it was a moment to where actually told my husband, if i could leave me right now i would leave me. and him being able to say you

are not crazy from day one. a label for it which are not a different person. that was one of the things it was helpful to me. melody: that is interesting and what is help me integrated. it's a gradual process. but in the beginning for me, it was like a lot of moments and i remember the day that i did this research popping up in my facebook page about how women were being left out and on the research on adhd and autism and i was reading it just captured me to a t like how come i never heard of this pretty and those initial moments of light, oh my gosh, and then just being a very serious person, a journalist and a writer read like that thread of let me dive into this and what's is all about it let me find out what is going on.

so there's that initial period of discovery and then, i think it took it one step at a time read then slowly opening up to like family and friends rated and getting more serious about it. that's how the book was born. the "divergent mind" came out of this process of discovery. and then you just get more and more comfortable pretty near azure irmo open, and a few minutes ago, just becomes integrated toor your life and so the more that you can say grounded in your own knowledge of like you you are and you know present that space to the world, the people around you and then it flows naturally. ... ...

spent there's a question here that says with those accommodations the same applies that what neuro- diversity is really like that those that are far more complex. >> yes. accommodation is an interesting topic in the book focus on the topic of work it is such a site in place of agency. it is your source of income, how do you take care of yourself and your family. and so margo who is that verizon now everyone should look her up if you do not already know her.

in the book we talk about things, the usual things about where to sit in the office, having headphones and things like that. i think more importantly it is the communication that happens. making sure your boss and colleaguesgu, like understand you. you can share what you need or what you can't do. that to me seems like the really important piece. then you will feel able to be yourself and ask for what you need. another thing a talk about in the book and elsewhere is the importance of acceptance. when people who autistic feel really accepted both by themselves and the people around them, there are levels but no way down.

if you are feeling better. i would love too see schools and universities people will be needed to be educated and it needs to be out there. some places are doing that, some of the bigger companies. i need to be more commonplace. >> i think the more of us who are in different industries the better that becomes. i provide accommodations for all of my students, some of their disabilities they don't want to go to the disability resource center on said this is my disability and can you provide accommodation. i think they find other professors are willing to provide accommodations.

they don't have to go that specific route to get those accommodations. there is a another question hear from sarah, what is the vision for evolving treatment and support? trucks so every one probably knows treatment is a little tricky. we don't want to get into things like that. have a talk about practices that support well-being that's a great conversation to have in terms of the evolution of where that is all going, interviewed a lot of therapist for the book. so grace mall annoy here california, she is i great. she make sure there is no food in the office she keeps all of

the lights very low. she make sure the fan and ventilation are not too loud. she also keeps soft materials. she is very attentive to what would feel therapeutic which is really important so love and diversity conversation around kids, i'm so it encouraging that we have practitioners who are releasing the adult population. honestly i feel like a lot of neuro- diversion people find their own hodgepodge of wellness. that kind of had to put something together. not for you and it sounds like we live dance and movement that helped us feel grounded, regulated, that kind of thing.

again for me i spend a lot of time in nature. i'm always going on walks and hikes. certainly a classic therapist can be helpful. at the therapist is not informed there can be limitations. and then, i am intrigued by some of the active stars out there. i feel like a lot do not know that much about the neuro- diversity perspective. there is an element you are having this because of x, this thing needs to be looked at.

and i just really disagree with that. i think that is quite horrible. there is kind of a resistance they have been trained for the trauma and i think that is dangerous, i really do. i want to caution people if you encounter that to know that is a bit extremist and that something we want to push against. in the book a divergent mind i start off by looking at the history of psychology, the errors that were made on people did become so fundamentalist. and wanting to pin everything on one aspect, that is the thing we really want to get away from. also i feel so strongly that individuals can put together

their own narrative or things they find helpful in doing and not just submit to one i hope this all makes sense but. >> this makes so much sense. the bookt itself is draining its own narrative for yourself in a sense you throughout the book some people have had cognitive therapy i did not learn quite as much, you may be quite not quite as much as you noted. the things that we do to learn about ourselves. don't google it. and google is the best place. read a book this book was that so therapeutic to me i think people forget that. what's therapeutic to you in terms of being the writer. was this part of finding the narrative for yourself as well? yes i think so.

i was talking with steve silverman the other day, people probably know he's the author of tribes, talking about my journey. i was saying writing this book was kind of like an investigative journey. i am a journalist this was my chance to dive in. as a simultaneous process of i am on this journey of discovery. i am going to figure out what i need to know and what is empowering for me. and what is the story i need to reclaim. all of this information could help everyone else out there on the same and journey because so many of us out there. that is what came out. this personal story and a real

hope for people to find their healing journey. >> if i could just jump in. this is a question for both of you. do you guys have have any other recommendations of books people can read that are up-to-date and reflect more accurately the experience of being neuro- divergent and not necessarily a psychological textbook or something more scientific? >> you have some? >> you can go to the twitter feed and find a list. it's basically put together not just saying that because my latest book is on that list i promise. put together a stellar list that i will tweet right now is i answer that question. >> it's true. on twitter i often shout out other books.

at the top of my twitter i put together a list a lot of people seem to appreciate it. these are books that came out in 2020 alone. and different fields. that is what we love to see. we want this information, and needs to be in the realm of psychology. there is a chef on there, there is an academic on there, there's a virtual reality on there. that iss we want to be want to see neuro- diversity knowledge and expertise integrated into the wider world. in terms of my recommendation on top of what i shared on twitter she wrote the book doing harm. her book is about gender bias in medicine and that's more on autoimmune issues. it is just a really important work.

i always recommendn nicola walker. nick has done a lot of pieces about neuro- terminology in changing our perspective within psychology. then i always recommend neuro- tribes. there is a lot and i list several in this book as well. >> thank you. can we go to the other questions? there is a bunch more we won't have time to go through all of them. did you pick some rory? >> emily is muted. >> you can pick one to start and i will look there but. >> i've not read through all of them. there is the one about gradually integrating my labels while integrating

others. however it feels like i am becoming more of a target at work. it does not help my psychiatrist believes in increasing drugs as a fix. how do i avoid that target? >> that is very interesting. i do not have all of the information to know exactly what it means to be a target. on a sheet on what workplace bullying someone using a neuro- divergent person as a scapegoat which is horrible. so if you are able to try a different that can make all the difference. i got unfortunately since a lot of this information is so new and it is not integrated can be helpful to do your own

research.. even medical papers are online print i know people who literally have to do that. too literally take divergent mindslp with you to your psychiatrist office which i have heard of people doing to be like hey look there is research behind all of this. you need to know what this is about. so yes it is a hard and tricky question to answer that having all of the information. check out different psychiatrist if possible, bringing the book to work. >> i don't know how they keep it up they haven't and put different psychiatrist in seat how much money they take from big pharma. you can see how much money they getting from big pharma at least last i checked.

there was a question whether your offering training sessions or if you have a group you would recommend in terms of diversity training. >> there are different kinds of neuro- diversity training. it depends on the specifics. i certainly will give talks and do events like this. i have offered a few classes in the past. it really depends. people can reach me my website as divergent lit.com. i have a contact there. i just heard from someone this morning he wants me too share this perspective and an academic conference which is exciting by love for this information to be able to penetrate different fields. so yes feel free to reach out to me on my website. >> thank you i am marie

mcdaniel is your question right there. i just pasted the medium piece i was referring to. it's into the chat, it is right there. there are so many questions. >> both are anonymous, one is melody and june are any plans on creating a workbook to go along with either of your books and the other, will you be publishing a pdf of resources with the audiobook for download? >> i will answer that when real quick. the audiobook is available. i had not thought about putting a pdf together for resources. it appears in the back and it also appears in the e-book.

that is a great easy option you can download on kingdom, apple books so yes all of the resources are out there it's just a matter of finding the right one. in terms of publishing a workbook to go along, divergent mind is an interesting mix. it's journalistic and investigative it's also m very practical and has a lot of takeaways and things you can integrate. i think for divergent minds it is on its own. what about you melody? >> might latest book i'm not planning. [laughter] we are translating the original poem from that book will be up on my website shortly.

that's the closest thing i have to a workbook. i would love to do something together. i would love for you at some point to do the training. i know you speak at conferences all the time. my dream is for you to go to everett university, come to mind first. you think of official trainings and i've been too trainings were a white guy giving me diversity training. i feel like the people doing this too frequently it's one thing to be well versed in something. it's anotherrs thing to identify for me i just cannot buy in if someone is not from that community. i might look i read a lot of books good for you for divergent mind what came through is you have lived it. you have plenty of textbooks

on integrate so much material into one ultimately short book to give you all of that in one place. just don't have that perspective of recognizing. is this something you figured out later? there's legitimate anger around that. why are they not part of this otherwise than being told you're hysterical there's not the space interpret the world differently, maybe that is a gift and i can figure out how to navigate the world i saw you doing that over, and over again. i think that is what makes this book so special among other things as you're coming from that perspective.

you are not just coming from the outside. >> thank you. like we are before, representation is huge. that is also an issue i would love to see more dirt neuro- divergent creators, writers in every field. i went to see like hollywood, media, film, we can see our stories on wider screens that's reallyor important. >> you said earlier you're cool with staying a little later with this, is that still the case? maybe we can get to a couple more questions. >> i can take a few more come up melody are you okay on time? >> i am great. >> i also want to say what melody just said i totally agree. we talked about this before we went live. i really love this book it might be one of my favorite books of all time now.

i have never felt so understood, so acknowledged and validated before. i have a sense i am not alone. which is so often happens when you read these books are written by professionals in the field they did not have the lived experience. they just have the academic background. it is so different hearing from another woman who was diagnosed late knows what this is like. when you are neuro- divergent you don't know that you are neuro- divergent there is a tendency to feel very lost, very misunderstood, you do not understand what is going on. ti'm glad you wrote this book and framed it in such a way we can acknowledge it is not a deficiency, it is a gift. i was diagnosed at 31.

everything i had read sort of implied it was some sort of a deficit. i am very proud of my autism i'm so glad you wrote this book. hopefully other women does not have a hard time accepting things and can realize it makes them more beautiful. >> thank you. >> thank you for sharing that, that is so important. i am so glad you that it resonated so much. >> i have a question here. this is from anonymous, have you heard about the autism fundraiser color of the spectrum with jimmy kimmel, mark rober and a ton of celebrities for its blowing up on autistic twitter. some organizations like autism speaks is problematic in so many ways.

nonprofits seem to have a lot of controversy and problems. those are typically the most well-known ones. do you have advice for allies to navigate which organizations are informed by neuro- divergence or those perpetuating harmfulpe stereotypes? >> the question asked or said, it tends to happen a lot like a cause will be taken up. that gets a little controversy who was at the helm of this cause like a fundraising effort or film. he goes back to melody and i were talking about. representation is so huge. i think people in the wider world need to take that really seriously.

i do not have specific recommendations around certain organizations or anything like that. itl have seen a little bit of this on twitter recently. again i think it speaks to needing to shift the conversation as much as possible to putting these kinds of efforts into people with lived experience. i think that is just going to take time. the twitter community the neuro- divergent community at large is very good at being vocal and really expressing the issues well. so yes, i think a lot about this kind of thing in terms of history and how things eventually come together and get integrated into the world.

a disturbed individual actions and collective actions. so i think we will see it soon. i think we will be reaching a turning point. melody and i have connected recently multiple times. there are a lot of other neuro- divergent writers and creators. film makers, producers, it is just pushing were more of us get to help design these things. i would encourage everyone to keep going. >> go ahead. >> is going to go into another question. >> to talk about masking. you're right about masking. i was interested in neuro- divergent or not it happens

the time especially with women. how much further out we can take that? >> it is a great question. for everyone watching or listening, masking is a term i use a lot in the divergent community. what does aha person have to do in order to get on in the world? what do we have to hide to appear normal? and it can really take a toll on someone after a while. that pressure builds up and a lot of people end up falling apart, shutting down. many of us reach a point more we are like okay not going to do this anymore. this is not working for me. and i totally agree.

something i put a little bit in the afterword, the way what we call neuro- normal activity in this really intersex. what we think of as normal is often dictated by whiteness. and so this excessively proper detached, closed off, kind of not real energy and way of interacting with people, there are many different words for this. i find it really important and really critical to connect those two. i feel like collectively our country is reconciling with this. and then we have sub pockets like that neuro- diversity community also talking about

this. there is this energy of like what isne this? why do we expect people to behave a certain way and act a certain way? who decides who is normal what's not normal? is it patriarchy, white supremacy, and so think that's a really exciting conversation. i am excited for that to be out there more. i'm really excited to see where were going with it. artists are really important, the more creative people integrate and shift in perspective and work and films, media, art when you see in exhibit even social media access. i think the more expectations get tapped the sooner they'll kind of dissolve.

>> so on that note, shiloh had a question. i am notot sure since you are not necessarily a home maker if you will be able to answer this one. shiloh asks, unload your your book i totally agree with you. spoke about media representation absolutely love neuro- divergent individuals. they have beautiful ideas around a better future for humanity. how would a neuro- divergent person that's pro normal diversity find others to collaborate with and develop the script. >> that is a great question thank you for asking it. i actually thinking about this a lot. i have friends who are mostly friends of color who f are collaborating within hollywood

to t change the narrative around race and immediate representation. which is so i awesome. we have been in conversation around how to do the same for something like disability representation, mental illness representation, neuro- divergent representation. that is something i am actively thinking about and really excited to follow up on. i think it's going to be a gradual process, getting to know the industry better. learning like what shiloh was saying where we can all put our skills together and put our heads together around what would this look like? would we have an incubator. in hollywood they talk about pipelines basically pipeline creators, how do we make that pathway easier? for people to go from story idea to being innate writers room onset.

for people who are watching orat listening, to reach out that is something if you have experience in this industry would like to look into that. there something i am thinking about a lot. for anyone who is ready to jump in right now, there's always a fellowships, they are so extremely competitive. usually you kind of have to know someone. someone needs to put in a recommendation. that could be a little tricky. we will see it, we will see can build something. >> i want to be respectful of your time even though you did a bag, you can stay a little later one more question i will let melody pick it out then we will wrap it up. >> assist the last last question? >> yes no pressure.

>> here is one. i'm not particularly interested in a diagnosis. but i do want to learn more about myself. i don't think i fit into one of these labels. but your box helps me realize my experience i'm a sensory overload, panic attacks, social communications went to mike neuro- divergent. i am not sure about the next step. i do notwo need work accommodations. i have a great work set up. but what should i do to figure out my neuro- divergent? >> that is a really good question. i think the question is, what do you need to do, is there anything to do? it really depends on the individual if someone is speaking to be better understood, to be seen, or to

have a name and a label for your own self knowledge then there's a lot out there. there's my book which helps with all of that to give information and stories from other women. or are you looking for a certain kind of therapeutic approach for help in your life certainly some people have certain kind of therapists i really encourage every individual to do what works for them. sounds like there's something the question asker is seeking. maybe get clear about what you are seeking. do you need help with something and how can you link with the right therapist or practitioner for that? if you are just wanting more knowledge for yourself, pick up a couple of our books. it really depends. i think divergent mind needs

to figure stuff out and does not need to have an exact medical thing. we are challenging that notion. >> high school students your opinion matters but let your voices be heard with c-span student video competition. the part of the national conversation by creating a documentary that answers the question how does the federal government impacts your life? your five -- six minute video with federal policy or program that affects you and your community. c-span student competition is $100,000 in total pass prices. you have a shot at the grand prize of $5000. entries for the competition

will begin to be received wednesday, september 8. for competition rules and more information on how to get started visit our website. ♪ ♪ >> if you choose to research the origins of eight topic being discussed frequently in the united states in recent months called critical race theory, you will find the name derek bell. law professor bell died in 2011 was one of the principal originators of this much discussed subjects. in november of 1992, derek bell appeared on buckets to discuss his book basis at the bottom of the well, the permanence of racism. >> the late derek bell harvard law school first black

professor on this episode of book notes plus. listen at c-span org/podcast or wherever you you get your podcast. >> weakens on cspan2 or intellectual feast every saturday nonfiction books and authors weakens on cspan2 you s are a scientist, russell poldrack is the professor at the department of psychology at stanford university he uses neuro- imaging to understand that brain system underlying