program guide. here is jenara nerenberg. >> i'm adult services librarian at the new haven free public library. before we begin i like to

thank my department for your support as adult service godfrey. in my programming partner isaac who is doing tech support behind the scenes tonight as well as gina bingham our public service administrator for her counsel support and mentoring. today we are joined by two incredible authors and activists, jenara nerenberg and melody. gennaro is the founder of the diversity project any journalist and authors of the book but we are here for today. which is divergent mind. thriving in a world that is not designed for you. we have award-winning author award-winning author written a series of titles her latest

book the room a prescription at ancient poet changed my life. you should pick up that is a good one. to resume viewers if you have questions during today's discussion, feel free to enter them in the chats. you can also put the q&a button at the bottom of your screen to ensure they do not get lost. if you are watching us on the live stream on facebook today just leave us a comment with your questions will try to get those answered as well. and without further ado, mel lee i will take it away. >> of course i am a mean muted. [laughter] thank you so much for having us. i am so excited to be here to talk about this amazing book divergent mines surviving in a world that is not designed for you. i'm a person who is thriving in a world is not designed for

may. my saw this but what i learned about this bucket screened out of your head bipolar disorder and living in america during what is now thankfully over known as the trump era. and that is when this book came out i was in the middle of all of that during the pandemic. just want to start off saying how are you doing? someone who put a book out during the pandemic it has been tough how is that going for you? >> guest: thank you melody and so happy to be here talking with you. thank you to the library for having us. yes, i think i'm doing okay. now we are kind of sort of emerging out of the whole pandemic phase. we still have a ways to go obviously. it was an interesting year think for many divergent people the year was mixed, right? kind of this quiet solitude with an interesting time for

many of us. i am really glad the book reach so many readers. today were celebrating the paperback it came out in hardcover a year ago in march which was bizarre timing. the book is making its way and i am so glad. >> me to it. i think you work you do with the diversity and that interracial proctors is something i want to start off or those who might not be knowledgeable might be very interested in the work you are doing can you tell us a little bit about the project and how the readers can connect with that as well? back the project started about four years ago i started

getting small groups together to talk about nerd diversity. and it grew so we have san francisco, and we had a conference and now are doing a lot of it on instagram actually for anyone and laster at the before the incident with george floyd, we are in interracial family and i grew up in interracial family. in our neighborhood and school.

life love intimacy really isn't get examined so i started reaching out to other writers again who should we talk about this during on instagram as well just on packing interracial life, something does not get talked about as much. we are kind of at the beginning of that as well. for anyone you want to check out that work, instagram is the place right now. >> we spoke a little bit in preparation for this. we talked they immediate representation around disability and diversions as you well know they're pretty notoriously garbage.

do you see that changing? and if so who is leading that change and how do you see it getting better? it's still pretty bad. >> i am so intrigued by this topic of immediate representation how mental illness, neuro- divergent, how bradley gets portrayed in the media. i have not lost any interest in film and theater in things like this. i think you see this with many different groups. like marginalized groups. what happens is there are stereotypes that are in the public imagination that have to do with social norms. and then you see the same stereotypes depicted on screen. it is a constant conversation, this dynamic between what is happening on the ground and what is happening in the media. and so something like neuro- divergences disability is no

exception. i been digging into this research turns out close-up ten to be much more in tents on characters that have mental illness people who are depicted as mentally ill are way more likely to be depicted as violence rather than actual occurrences in life. something we need to work against. melody your work at such an amazing contradiction to all of this. i did not get into that too much in the book. all about reframing the conception by polar, how can

we take ownership and ultimately change the conversation. initially the book on kyndell and 61 highlights this moment where you talk about the field of medicine needs an overhaul. with the number of people experiencing loneliness on the rise, more people become ill put in that position of needing to figure out people's social lives. the doctors are getting burned out and also need support. in the list goes on. without people being to open up, share and connect with others about their internal lives nothing will change. you go on the importance of that.

in terms of you did not know this was coming out having read it during this initially that i found really comforting in terms of the reminders. found a lot of this that is not virtually spiritual or spiritually connected. i know that comes from somewhere. we are healthier the more connected we are. how we are seeing that revolving. >> you mean how are we going to emerge from the pandemic they've been good at this in terms of being familiar with a kind of disconnection that may be people who do not have that kind of makeup are not quite

so familiar with being that disconnected. : : : >> it wasn't great for you but

so a lot of people that were thrown into this inadvertently had no control over that. >> yes it is interesting points you are making. yes. a lot of people may be they have read regarding the diversity it's interesting i don't know the pandemic allows more people because like you said so many people live this way anyway and are outside all the time like yourself i am a writer and i am home. i'm in my head and always

thinking and that is normal for me. so yes. i do know what you are saying about people that are finding much more understanding of their family members, colleagues, kids and parents. i hear from a lot of people who say tears streaming down their faces because in hindsight they realize one of their parents are no longer alive had xyz. it's healing experience to put a name to that. and then in terms of how we emerge of this whole pandemic. , i really do hope that all of

us take some of those lessons that we have learned around what it means not to rush around all the time which i think many actually wrote something in the book and i really could not believe how much it captured this moment i am going to paraphrase my own quote but i look forward to the day when it is considered. let me grab it. obviously we did not anticipate this happening that hoping that the one day the world would quiet down here it

is i look forward to the day when it is currently a hidden sensory world for many people becomes the global norm. what are labeled as sensory elements are more common in that faction to dramatize world that is a desperate need of repair. so yes i was medicating these topics so perhaps it has people thinking. >> we know how you need to start reconsidering what it means when you talk about it

makes up 20 percent of the population for that disorder or mentally ill with humanity as a whole given that so many people go undiagnosed looking at a different concept. because i feel you are speaking for so many people. because it is understanding the different concept. what door does that open for people who have been shot out? >> yes. i have been thinking about this a lot lately. i think it's interesting because the deeper you get

into narrow diversity research or interviewing people, i don't know if it's just me because that's my world and i see everything through that lens and that color but it actually becomes more difficult to see nero legality to be honest the more we talk to people in the more they open up and take off their mask and remove the layers, you start to realize some of these things are very universal so that's important for people to now and the reason why we don't currently see the world in that way is we have a culture to be closed often people are not encouraged to be with their emotional health or challenges or to see a doctor for something that imagine if it was more open.

would we be added a point where we would even need this terminology of have normal lower nor moral that is the direction we're headed in it will get there someday. a lot of us who are activist and writers in some ways route the early helm of this thinking. >> thinking of the labeling to give the name that is healing and liberating then you say the identifications with family friends and colleagues on board, once i learned about them and now i have

thriving life knockdowns and all. but this idea that's exactly of my experience to find the labels incredibly liberating at first but then what does this mean? wondering what it has been like for you that you are providing a different outlet for other people not just to your own experience but the incredible research you have put together like i am so grateful for your ability to put all this material together that was also entertaining so i'm curious about the idea of labels when does it start

being liberating and when is it no longer necessary and that's in terms of how the readers have responded. >> thank you so much for finding that thread and it's cool to hear how it resonates through you and those watching. i tend to describe this the labels are entry ways. they are entry points to empowerment, liberation to be informed and i talked about that in the book the importance of this knowledge and for me i find that so healing and then you absorb it. so i think for many neuronal divergent people who are discovering aspects of themselves with that advocacy and activism it is something

that is very exciting and very important work so then went to gets integrated into all aspects of your life like your family and your work and sense of identity, it's just something that doesn't even need to be set as much it is a part of you and again the word is integration but not to say they are not important everyone has their own journey with this they just need to do what works for them. some people continue to find a new line out of work around this label or diagnosis. for other people to be integrated and continue living

their lives at the different perspective of how they see themselves. so for me personally come it was a journey of learning about narrow diversity on - - narrow diversity so that was exciting and then how within left out of research on autism and the sensitivity and how it was so prevalent for people no matter your diagnosis and then i talk about anesthesia and then the senses being cropped and in the process that if i worked with and those in the

community and then certainly the book coming out was very healing. it was a release. now it has been one year. it is awesome to see how people respond for themselves or their parents or siblings. i've heard from a lot of therapist how much it impacts their practice and they recommend it to their clients to see change in the therapeutics industry. and then it also allowed me to move on to other things. i am a journalist i have the interracial project going so no matter what's in my life with that narrow diversity work is such a huge part but

it is integrated into what i do next. so that is exciting for people to know and in your own life you have different periods of discovery and integration. and that is okay. it is okay for this to be, part of your larger story. if you like sometimes people feel they have to keep sticking with the one movement. >> i feel that way completely. that you are stuck in that definition of what you originally saw the diagnosis and that label and then once that shame and stigma and then once you have written about it get out there. you are already out and owning

and helping other people. so again but i saw myself in this book so much and i'm so grateful because it's the best book you read in all of 2020 and i'm so grateful to you for it because it that everybody that was cited in the book and everybody in the book i love that. i love that you cite the other writers and authors and women to do that important work can you dig into that research in a way that is much easier for me to get a broad sense that i have been in for so long yet have never seen a book like this. that chat is blowing up so i will ask you some questions. so what is the way that neuro-

divergent people with those body awareness practices are honored with that internal sensory experience? i recall you naming with that mindfulness sometimes that's not very accessible so i'm curious about new approaches. >> that's a great question. yes. i don't speak a lot about medication in the book and honestly in my life i am a movement person. and i thank you are also. but the type of meditation that i have been drawn to is like tai chi i love to defense and run. so for me, all of that is far more healing than planting myself and i hear this all the time from other neuro-

divergent people that medication does not work for them. yes. i don't know how to totally answer your question but i encourage people to not feel that they have to stay inside her think meditation is required we know a lot of people a lot of people that this does not work for us. >> that's a great answer. so there is another question here like psych professionals when i speak of my own artistic experience because they learned it a different way or research says something else how can i make people understand that all the researchers in the world for a neuro- divergent person

experience sometimes if you like my own advocacy expert. >> yes that makes a lot of sense and i hear that all the time. again in the beginning in terms of representation of women and girls. that's why it is important to take the narrative into your own hand for once. and with that more formal diagnosis it is necessary to be honest if we are working with the medical industry with research that is literally 30 years old taking 20 or 30 years for research to be integrated in practice then how can you let those people tell you who you are? that is huge and you will find many people out there who are

self identified but because of what i am talking about. that makes sense for some people it's usually important and for accommodations in the classroom so it depends on your particular individual situation. so yes the person who asked the question that there are so many people out there. >> what helps you integrate your label? do you have recommendations with that process of integrating? >> because there is a moment

and him to say that you are crazy from day number one but you are not a different person. >> that is interesting so for me i remember i did the research of how women were being left out and then i read these things and it captures me to a t how come i have never heard of this quick so there is those initial moments of my gosh then to be a

journalist and writer so let me dive into this so there is that initial period of discovery i think i took it one step at a time. and opening up to family and friends. that is how the book was born. so divergent mines came out of this whole process and then you just get more and more comfortable that is integrated into your life and then to present that face to the world

and then to be integrated. spent there's a question here that says with those accommodations the same applies that what neuro- diversity is really like that those that are far more complex. >> yes. accommodation is an interesting topic in the book focus on the topic of work because of agency you are in the world you take care of yourself and your family so

marco is at verizon now everyone should look her up in the book we talk about usual things of where to sit in the office but more importantly with the communication that happens that your boss and colleagues understand you to me that seems like the really important piece that you can be yourself and ask for what you need. so the importance of acceptance when people who are artistic by themselves and those around them like

depression and anxiety going down that means you can just do your work better. so that communication pieces important. i would love to see more workplaces have introductory neuro- diversity training. people just need to be educated and the information needs to be out there. some places are doing that even bigger companies but it needs to be more commonplace. >> yes and in different industries i provide accommodations for those that don't want to go to the disability resource center. and surrounding whatever that

disability is and those that are providing to provide accommodations to go that specific route so what is your vision? >> so everyone probably knows it's a little tricky because we don't want to get into things like that so if we talk about the practice that's a great conversation to have. in terms of the evolution of where that is going i interviewed a lot of therapist for the book she is great like

there is no food in the office. and then to get overwhelmed. and to make sure that the fan and the ventilation are not too loud. so she is very attentive so a lot of that neuro- diversity conversations and with those practitioners that see that adult population. i feel that neuro- divergent people so they have to put something together.

and that helps us to feel grounded and regulated and for me i spend a lot of time in nature. and certainly of the therapist is not informed so i and intrigued by some of those practitioners out there but those that don't know much about that whole neuro- diversity perspective i want everyone to know that there is an element that where people

link everything to trauma to say you have this because of x and it needs to be looked at but i really disagree with that and there is a an existence through the lens of trauma. i think that is dangerous. i really do so i want to caution people that it is a bit extremist and in the book divergent mind with a history of psychology and the errors that were made and then to pin everything on one aspect and that is the kind of thing we

want to get away from and also why i feel so strongly individuals to put together their own narrative so i hope this makes sense. >> and you creating that narrative for yourself with that cognitive behavioral therapy. but ashley to research the things that we do to learn about ourselves. like don't google it. >> and people forget that.

in terms of being a writer. >> i was talking with steve silverman the other day. and how writing this book was the investigative journey. so very much it was a process that i have a journey of discovery i need to figure out what i need to know what is empowering for me and what is a story i need to reclaim and how does this help everyone else out there because there are so many of us out there. so that's what came out.

the real quotation for other people to find their own journeys. >> and what has been on my reading list for a while do you have any other recommendations of those that are up-to-date and the experience of to be neuro- divergent? and for what is more scientific quick. >> you can actually go to our twitter feed. i'm not just saying that that i will reach we right now.

on twitter i do shout out other books and a lot of people seem to appreciate it these came out in 2020 alone divergent authors and we want this information in the realm of psychology but that's what we want to see. and into the wider world. so in terms of my recommendation. and that to do harm. it is all about gender bias in

medicine. and then i always recommend that walker that he has done a lot about neuro- diversity terminology and psychology and then i always recommend others and they find in this book as well. >> can we go to the other questions? >> . >> there is one here and then

it feels like i'm becoming more of a target. it doesn't help that my psychiatrist believes and increasing drug as affects. >> that is interesting and have all the information to know what that means to talk about like workplace bullying or someone using as that neuro- divergent person as a scapegoat which is horrible. and if you try different psychiatrist that makes all the difference. and then to be integrated.

and that is available online it can actually also be helpful so with those psychiatrist office for what they are doing there is research behind all of this. so this is a hard and tricky question to answer without all the information but in terms of that workplace question but there is a list of different psychiatrist a person asking

about drugs. there is a great great question if you're offering training session on - - training sessions. >> there are different kinds of neuro- diversity trainings and talks and do events like this and that depends. people could reach me and i have a contact there someone he wanted me to share this perspective i love to penetrate different fields.

so yes. >> i see a question right now i see that you are not on twitter there are so many questions some are anonymous but to create a workbook will you be publishing pdf of resources? >> i will just answer that the audio for one —-dash audiobook is available.

and that gathering resources it also appears in the e-book with the apple books and google books so all the resources are out there is just finding the right format so divergent mind is an interesting mix but it's also very practical with a lot of takeaways so for her divergent mind on its own. what about you? >> i'm putting this just for anybody so the original from

that book and i would love to do something together because my dreams is for every dream to come true first. and then to be two different kinds of trainings that i am okay with that and it's one thing to be well-versed in something and with that narrow diversity on - - with that neuro- diversity that i have read a lot of books good for

you and for that divergent mind that you could read plenty of textbooks. and then to give you all of that in one place. and to give you that perspective and then you were diagnosed later in life and then there was legitimate anger. so why are we not a part of this? and then this space to say maybe i interpret the world differently. then how to navigate the world. and i saw you doing that over

and over again and as a makes the book so special and not just coming from the outside. that representation is huge. but i to see so we can see the stories on wider screens. >> you said earlier that maybe we could get to a couple more questions? >> yes i can take a few more. >> and we talked about this

before we went live but one of my favorite books of all time i never felt so understood and acknowledged and validated i am cracking up now but that so often happens if you read these books and they are written by professionals who feel they don't have the lived experience just the academic background and it's so different to hear from other women diagnosed late. if you are neuro- divergent and you don't know that you are neuro- divergent and there is a tendency to feel very last so i'm glad that you wrote this book in such a way

so that is just not a deficiency i was diagnosed artistic at 31 i had a hard time to accept it at first. so everything that i read implies it was a deficit. so i'm so glad you wrote the book. so that others don't have a hard time to accept that and it makes them more beautiful. >> thank you for sharing that. it is so important and i'm so glad it resonated so much. >> i have a question hear from anonymous.

and then to be problematic in some ways and then to have controversy and problems to have to navigate for those that are perpetuating. >> so like a cause will be taken up and it is a little controversial around the helm of the cause so it goes back to what melody and i were talking about that it is so

huge and people need to take that seriously and so i don't have specific recommendations or anything like that i have seen little bit like this on twitter recently but it speaks to needing to shift the conversation as much as possible to put these efforts into the hands of people of lived experience. and i think that will just take time. the twitter on - - twitter community at large is very good to be hopeful and expressing the issue well so i think about in terms of

history and then it does start with those individual actions so i think we will be reaching a turning point there are other neuro- divergent filmmakers and producers. to keep pushing to help design these things so i encourage everyone to keep going. >> i was going to go into another question it was just a

reaction to white supremacy and patriarchy i just think it happens all the time and that's a great question so with that neuro- divergent community what does a person have to do to get on in the world and to appear normal? it can really take a toll on that pressure builds up and then falling apart shutting down and then many of us say i will not do this.

and i totally agree so in this afterword so the way where that whiteness intersects with neuro- activity that is dictated by whiteness. so properly detached and in the way to interact with people. to find important and critical to connect. and countries are reconciling

with this and with those neuro- diversity community so there is the energy of what is this? why do we behave or act a certain way? what is behind that with patriarchy? that is an exciting conversation. so i'm really excited to see where we go so the more that creates people to integrate in their work and with those exhibits the more that those

expectations and the sooner that they will be resolved. >> on that note and to have a question i'm not sure if you can answer this one but both with media representation and then to have beautiful ideas and with the idea and with neuro- diversity to find others to collaborate with. >> that is a great question thank you for asking. >> i am thinking about this a lot i have friends who were

mostly friends of color who are collaborating with in hollywood to change the narrative around race which is so awesome so with the conversation like disability representation that is something i'm actively thinking about it is a gradual process where we can all put our skills together and our heads together and in hollywood they talk about pipeline creators and how do we make that pathway easier

for people to go from story ideas to be in a writers group for people who are watching or listening if you have experience in this industry and would like to look into that something that we think about a lot and for anyone ready to jump in right now there are some incubators so you have to know someone so that can be a little tricky so we will see if we can build something i want to be respectful of your time even the you said you could stay later may be one more question

then we can wrap it up. >> i picked the last question? >> yes. no pressure. >> i'm not interested in and diagnosis but panic attacks and communication issues to be micro divergent i don't need work accommodations so what do i do to figure out my narrow divergence quick. >> so the question is what do you need to do? it depends on the individual

to be better understood her to have a name and a label for your own self-knowledge there is my book which helps with all of that and to share stories with other women are you looking for a certain kind of therapeutic approach with a certain kind of therapist or medication? i encourage every individual to do what works for them. it sounds like there is something so do you need help with something if you're just wanting more knowledge for

yourself so yes it really depends but divergent minds are great for someone who just wants to figure stuff out and doesn't need this exact medical thing we are challenging that notion so yes