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>> hello everyone, welcome including tour visitors and our viewers from c-span. i'm jim kelly directorpa of the center of global security analysis at this university and we are proud to be cosponsoring thisns webinar "lincolnomics" wh the partners, the museum of american finance in new york city in the society of new york it. this is part of our centennial seriesis and some 100 years of herbert's dresden education. and particularly, since we are currently offering a course in financial history, in with the museum of american finance, during this. presentation, pleae enter your questions by typing them in the q&a section near the bottom of your zoom screen. we will be addressing as many questions as possible after the presentation. and lastly, as a participant in

today's webinar, you will be entered into a raffle to win a free e-book of "lincolnomics" and winners will be notified at the end of the week. and now t i would like to turn this over to david president of american plantings who will introduce our speaker. a cute. >> thank you jim and is always great to be back with you and the school her friends at cfa predict and this is the third time that i had the pleasure to introduce john in the first time we introduced him he had written ten books which i thought was impressive and while the second time he was up to 16 and elsewho congratulations on that john in his book is particularly timely because part of it is discussing infrastructure and congress that is currently debating and infrastructure built and john connor several times throughout the book to what would lincoln do partied and john's prolific

writings also includes over 1000 columns and articles in places like the new york times, the wall street journal. and it will be issued sometime next month and john, with many media outlets on nbc to npr, cnn, cnbc, msnbc, to cbs la is a native of illinois and during his childhood he visited many of lincolnnd destinations with tourists and he continued on doing that as an adult or the country through various sites and therefore when you read the book, there are several embassies in one of them is history view that i don't want to do most of the various lincoln tourist destinations. and john, is been a very difficult 12 or 13 months in

this country. so please tell us what would lincoln do. >> thank you so so much for that generous interest income is always a pleasure to speak at the museum of american finance and thank you so much to our great sponsors from the school of business, center for global security and cfa society of new york, i know all of you for attending this zoom session and one that i hope will be a revealing new look at abraham lincoln and infrastructure. the story starts in 1828, a young man is taking a flat boat transporting could agriculture produce from southern indiana on the ohio river down the mississippi to new orleans predict the way that he discovers two things. he sees that people who are

enslaved do not have the same economic opportunity to advance their own station and its amoral thing and he also sees the importance of transporting goods to markets having access to those markets no matter where you live so if you're a rural farmer or wherever in the country, you do not have to go through this labyrinth of what was in the interstate system and the nations large rivers to get there. this young man was abraham lincoln and he took another trip out of springfield illinois, this was 1828 it's a really important here because as erie canal opens. that gave new york city which became of course, one of the greatest force in the world, access to the market last into the great lakes at the time

chicago was not even a city, is a swampy trading post, very inaccessible because the only way to get to the mississippi river was an port called mud like which even in 18 or i'm sorry 1673, two explorers in marquette, father market said hey there should be a canal here because if you connect the chicago river to michigan in the great lakes and erie canal and new york city you can get to new orleans printed in the illinois river in mississippi and onto carson city. so that was one of the first impressions known abraham lincoln had as a nation was growing in the 1830s and it was really a time that we do not really study a whole lot. because we mostly skip on the

revolution to the civil war was a lot of history in between and one of the reasons that are of is because that i wanted to know hundred our country developed. when we need to do to get to where we are today. and eventually when we need to do to get n deeper into the fute and more equitablere presence. so what was really important about that one trip, is a very have a very thin like trip for lincoln and change this worldview and the thinking. and change the way that he said things in public. one of his first campaign planks in the 1830s 2100 rent for the general assembly, springfield illinois now and still young man in his 20s and he failed and running to stores and he tried surveying and splitting wood, he was doing anything they needed, he had debts predict in a partner in a sore left empire

brian had to pay off the steps and he did all this while being curious about the world and about markets and economics and things that would transform not onlyy his life but the life of all rural americans and even people in cities. so he proposes something very interesting in the first thing that he said was that we need to developp a canal from springfied all the way to the illinois river which would've facilitated our great newport and a great new access to the markets in new orleans and further south and also crated canal that would later be called the illinois michigan canal which was connecting chicago to the illinois river. about 96 miles. another thing which actually was pooh-poohed at the time because everybody thought that it would be way too expensive was a major railroad to connect allstate to

the rest of the eastern markets at the time. the railroad is clinical illinois civil so he worked with a fellow named stephen douglas, his great rival throughout life. in politics to get this done and the only way legislature passes massive infrastructure plan and then promptly, when bust. this undercapitalized and the veil had to take some time because they didn't have t the money to hiree irish laborers to get paid almost nothing to dig it by hand. that was something that had to be done in order to open up chicago from the great lakes and the rest of illinois to global markets. lincoln's officer leaving him paid for it and it was fairly successful inn convincing people that should be done and he wanted to put rural farmers and anybody who is not living your big city or saltwater port on equal footing with everyone else

and how you do this pretty will you create transportation routes and you build infrastructure to get peoplepo there. and so lincoln it was fairly successful as a young assembly man but what was more important is that he introduced the concept based on henry clay's american system that if you build infrastructure, he would create economic progress. this wason fundamental to the lg view of the world and the united states henry clay was a wig and abraham aiken was nearly wig and they were very much in the building infrastructure and tariffs came from that, internal tariffs. and they did this when they called it the error of good feelings. never quite sure what they call it that but the biggest thing at that time was to build canals all over theng country rated to connect these major river systems which were interstates

and and of course railroad took off in the following decade, the 1840s and what became this huge interstate system really took off because the canals continue to grow and what happened when lincoln first proposed his little canal called the sigma canelo springfield was that he knew than anyplace where a canal in conjunction with another river in this case the illinois, a lot of commerce and development would take off and this was very little nobody actually was an urban planner, he planted town at the intersection of this canal called huron in lake huron. it was never built of course and i saw the plans and did the research is nothing that i had never known about lincoln. in any event to become a lawyer to make more money is a very

successful morning dropped out of politicss until 1854. in thehe interim, america is growing at a rapid pace. the illinois michigan canal open up 1948. what happened, increases major city on the other end of it. chicago, remember was a dumpy little swampy area ran out of lake michigan and will becomes this major shipping port and it becomes the busiest port in country when the canal is finished release another decade. about 1900 the population growth is so explosive that it becomes the fastest growing city in b te world and the turn-of-the-century and those facilitated by the citeded lincn champion along with stephen douglas. and even more importantlyn the

illinois central railroad which was really built to supplement what was going up and down the canal, becomes the longest railroad in the world by 1850. it eventually goes from the northwest tip of illinois all the way to new orleans but not until after the civil war and then it becomes a major transit route and during the civil war. so keep those two things in mind, these are two immense developments in the history of t the country, the midwest, and links the markets eastern markets and western markets to the southern part in this globalization in a very small sense but in a very growing sense. that what happens when the civil war comes along with what we know what lincoln says, we know that house to find the cities we know about debates and i started going into the materials and found something very interesting and then he said literally the

first debate with stephen douglas illinois 1858. for senatorng against douglas and douglas had control of the illinois democratic party. in most, they were directly not elected but they were elected by state legislature for so he became a senator. so what happens was that it lincoln and talking about slavery made another argument. this was during the first debate to predict and he said that every man has a right to earn his own threat read and then on an equal footing with everyone prayed so this is lincoln's vies of economic progress that you are right to offer your labor for pay and the opportunity to ascend the economic ladder and used those words, economic ladder, how do you move up in

heavy avoid all your life doomed to heartwarming, how do you do that. will the support of the american system in and to learn in art history but there is more to it than that. here is something even more exciting. so this is another side in the lincoln story really during his sort of i wouldn't call it exile it is a strange thing for politics which spans roughly from the time he leaves the general assembly roughly 1854, when douglas as the nebraska act. allowing for slavery in the western lincoln comes to this realization that what is really important here t other than endg the evil of slavery is that we still need to pay attention to infrastructure 1947 is in the

house of representatives the only term in the actually did a very long speech, one of his long speeches ever. and on infrastructure. why is it important to have the canals and railroads and what is a vein with the help of the future of the nation are readable thought it was essential rated in effect, he was disparaging the president of the time for fighting the mexican war and neglecting this huge national issue and keep in mind that until lincoln's era, that many of the founding fathers founding fathers and subplot that federal funding that the structure was unconstitutional. james monroe himself said in his annual message, even before the canal era, like the idea but it only should be building roads and canals and things like that but it is not in the constitution rated so that was used as an argument against federal funding of infrastructure for decades. decades before the civil war.

so lincoln selected 1860, there's secession of the southern states going to washington by secret route because of the assassination printed attempted to get there in the civil war starts. now lincoln's record is very well known bully had embedded in very basicse messages were very foundational ideas on raising tail "lincolnomics" process first of all the transcontinental railroad became a very popular idea in 1840s and actually fremont ran for president against buchanan. the campaign on that and he was one of the first republicans in the republican party doesn't the mid- 19thil century, 1850s. and in the new republican party, forces against slavery and for

the transcontinental railroad in lincoln had represented the illinois central is a lawyer and knew the importance of it. save it was that. and in one of the annual messages which were then state of the union speeches, images a whole bunch of other things. he is the first president to do a telegraph message transcontinental because a message from san francisco and he loves telegraph as you know from the history and civil war he spent a lot of time the telegraph room. and first-year of the war but very badly forhe the union and f course, with his shuffling general, he is trying to get his troops ready to be. and most of them are better generals, as it turns out our the railroad engineers who became generals. and they later become the transcontinental railroad.

in prison even remarkable at the height of the civil war, this got a full blood shed, 700,000 people lose their lives. the majority of them lose their lives in the calves to various diseases predict area and pneumonia and there's no cure for them and they have no idea what is going on because the germs theory diseases not come along until like 20 or 30 years later in lincoln it is an advocate of medical research brady establishes establishes the pathology institute. novella papers where he talks about using disinfectants in some of the union camps and he doesn't even know about terms. it is here's about a nice letter near protect this right, this is like a really good idea so is our innovator and he was to do new things that he wants to see new ways of communicating and of transporting goods and getting

us to where we need to be. and one of the biggest sort of fitness moves the size of the law are three very fundamental laws come the homestead act, which allows people basically free land and the moral act which is land-grant colleges and of course the pacific act which finance give the land for transcontinental railroad. the following year, that's easy to do the following year, also passes the national banking act and this is for the first time come establishes the greenbacks from the green dollar that is our national currency and it establishes also an income tax to pay forom the war and during the war the gdp actually increases very small tax 3 percent over $800 to pay it a flat tax but it was the first

income tax repealed in 1873 believe that comes back to 1913 but as a first wave of the national government financing the expenses on that level so that was a very important development rated so this happens during the civil war, the horrible battles gettysburg's pittsburgh, and 81863 in the war is over lincoln loses his life rated that was 1865. in the theater. but his legacy lives on. and here's the mostre amazing pt of the story is that lincoln view of economic progress that is building infrastructure and raising elbows, really comes out of another part of his psyche. this was in 1947, eventually invented about design to lift up at a very big boat but it was

lifted up in shallow waters and he patented it before he left washington in 1948 and travel on the illinois and michigan canal so lincoln the only president who is a patented inventor so he always had this mind is an innovator in chief like how we do things better heavily use t technology and how do we really do the things that were really good at to make this a better country for everyone. so most of the principal things i discovered read but again, the legacy lives on pretty inspired a whole new generation of progressive politicians and thinkers like lloyd wright james adam social reforms, the lincoln highway which is the first national east-west route, goes from times square all the way to san francisco. it was named after him and inspired by him. in fact i was born just off the lincoln highway, the hospital

where i was born, no longer exists but it was called the crossroads of america and of course lincoln horror my state. center license plate. so we have all of this inspiration then it goes even further, the roads in this country were really terrible going from part one part of the country to another especially from the midwest to the west. and in 1919 young cart, joint use and how to the convoy to explore the state of the roads along lincoln highway from one coast to the other and it comes with a real undeniable conclusion that they are just awful. iowa had like pioneer trails than you go through the mountains and the deserts and from that time on, even the people wereer saying, and we pay for this and do this. the first idea was lincoln

highway so those 1913 and in the first concept of financing was that it should be part privately financed so an entrepreneur who was really the air to the fortune said that we can raise the money to do this. and henry ford and says to him, you're not going to do this with private money and i'm not going to contribute. unity federal funding to do this. so then raise enough money, things and subscribers including woodrow wilson and nikki get $5 or something. it is terribly underfinanced and it is a really good until eisenhower becomes president in 1956 and interstate highway acting creates largest network of highways 40000 miles plus of highways. and inflation was adjusted for today's dollars, would've been at least $600 billion project. now we face at least $6 trillion

and you know there's proposal for the 2 trillion-dollar federal american jobs plan by president of biden and were looking at thaten now. so as with a lot of my stories and this is like my fifth book on infrastructure in history, finance and telling stories about people behind these ideas and the principle here is very powerful that you do need to make these investments. likenesses how we like our cities in our towns and a fun filled. from coast-to-coast. like a lot of things that we need to do and i would be happy to take questions on this but i will leave you with this one think. like what we are very good at that lincoln really personifies was his idea that innovation would not only lift our

economic, through entrepreneurship and defend pension inventions and discovering new technologies but also lift our spirits. at this is aspirational, we still truly believe that this new invention or this new thing in the market or this new idea is going to change the world. that's what i think makes us americans. as part of the path forward in one of the reasons i wrote this book reading have to tell you, one sort of anecdote is that i wrote it i started out with in the pandemic we are in now and i lost two friends i know lots of hopeople who lost friends and my condolences if you know somebody who perished in this thing. but it reveals something about us that we do need to create a better infrastructure and social infrastructure and educational

infrastructure and as well as a physical infrastructure, better roads bridges tunnels, railroads read all of these things that come out of that huge category of infrastructure. an can't say enough that this building is what we do. and also builds our spirits and >their confidence and gives us something to hope for. aspirational. and with that, i would love to take your questions and there's a whole bunch of stories in the book and it was a pure joy to write living in the land of lincoln. and people asked how them to take you too write this,. [laughter] but this is an ongoing story and i hope all of you will contributeri to this effort to realize what we need to do. and we are back to jim i think it. >> will thank you very much.

before i even ask a question, let me encourage everyone toor answer the and run questions in the queue in a box will keep going on the basis the main source of income back then, to be in higher tariffs in china. john: i think that the whole tariff formula grew to be not enough to do what we needed to do in terms of infrastructure this was the whole argument during the 19th century, tariffs were used to fund some infrastructure but it was not enough. in a good way to finance these things, i'll leave that to the historians and the financial analysts. hecii think that we do need is a broad-based sustainable way of financing this whether it is public-private or bonds or

through carbon taxes, there's many proposals on the table but we need to get back discussion going because obviously, the nation as our house so if you don't have this new house, you'll need to contain it and do replace the heating air conditioning, all these things work out. if you don't do that, you're looking at problems of the house is our nation and it does need to be fixed separated and putting new technology and we need to address climate change and all of these things. but we do need and that is the current argument, how do wecu do this and how do we finance it. jim: you mentioned in the book, innovator in chief and one of the things, you didn't mention the passout would wonder if you could expand on that, the only president and secondly, lesser-known story which you bring out is a dual challenge

believe it or not the lincoln and. it is little bit about that. most people are not aware of the facts. john:: two really good stories the both happen, at different times that the inventors story is that from lincoln to get to washington, candidate is god-awful route, through the great lakes and the erie canal and on the hudson river and sometimes it took the overland route. that often when he was on a boat in the great lakes, it would get stuck. and then they would have to pry the boat loose with physical labor and so he came up with his idea literally designed it on the ship. where these holes we lifted up any of these inflatable buoys that would flood the boat buyer is really cleverly made a model of it.

it is now in the smithsonian beautiful is not billed as far as i know. beyond the model stage they will be using this in the railroad era probably not that much need for it. with the dual challenge was lincoln had some issues with depression and in several ships and one of the sweethearts died in springfield, madly in love with her and she died. he is very the president barry allen's and before that mary todd who was very sprightly intelligent and politically savvy and new henry clay, and grew up with that whole culture in the louisville, kentucky from kentucky and lincoln was very awkward socially for some reason unless he was giving a speech.

and things didn't go well at first with mary and then they broken off and he was horribly depressed. and his friend joshua took away his razor, would not come out of his area and somebody insulting him and there was a dual challenge and unfortunately, in 19th century duels were kind of conflicts that you could apologize that's what happens so he didn't fight n and there wasa good thing. if we would've lost like and then, can imagine what this country would be like. that's a great question thank you. >> so here's an interesting one. if you could spend a something on infrastructure what would be. john: it would be healthcare. because one of the things that they discovered in writing this backwards is that there are massive inequities in terms of healthcare coverage between

communities of color the rest of the country is very unevenly divided. i live in a county where we have a plethora really good hospitals but if you go south of chicago, it is not the case. they're struggling to keep the hospitals open. so i would spend the money and safe heavily of af broad-based plan if this were everybody gets really decent basic healthcare. i don't know if that's the healthcare system or medicare for all only need to come up with something. as a covid-19 crisis really exposes inequities and it was horrible because some people didn't have access to healthcare or they didn't go to the hospital because they were pretty cannot pay for it. so this is part of my social infrastructure argument.uc i think lincoln would've embraced and even go as far as the 14th amendment which was

the treatment causing that in the very least in this country we should treat everybody fairly and equally. and of course they haven't been but i think that is something that we need to talk about when we talk about infrastructure. >> layers but would like to know would lincoln be in favor of item detail in order with the financing out of infrastructure bill. john: i don't think that he would've look at that specifically because he wased kd of a big picture thinker. continental robert how big of a project was that and of course when you look at history, and all of the displacement of native americans and murdering them and putting them on reservations, there are a lot of bad things that happen because of the expand to this economic policy, no doubt about a big cow

can you see that in i don't know what he would've thought to be honest with you. it wasn't necessarily government at the time, but not spending enough money on the things that mattered the most to the greatest number of people. so that is a tough one and i am going to really pass on that read but i think he would've look at it eventually. he was very open-minded about new ideas. >> abraham lincoln and frederick douglass knew each other well please tell us about the reporting how the relationship impacted lincoln's values and policies. john: while in modern times, i think it would've been in front of me so lincoln was the first president that i canan tell who welcomed douglas into the white house. douglas was a very accomplished

thinker and speaker and abolitionist. and he wrote two autobiographies if you read them, he's amazing, he just opens up the whole issue of slavery and economic equality and what we to do this probably know better person if you want to understand what were up-to-date and to read frederick douglass. his autobiography alan him now. douglas was very critical of lincoln in the early years. we would consider to be a fairly regular basis of talking when he was in the white house and lincoln work of the abandoned douglas didn't think lincoln was doing enough to slavery and of course emancipation proclamation did not end slavery in totality and it was incomplete declaration of the mostly freed slaves who fought for the union

side. and all of the pieces and needed to follow equal education and funding infrastructure for every community, with the later but actually douglas innf the 1880s, and pretty much was advocating for equal rights and he was at the 1893 exposition in chicago as a matter of fact. and i think that in the end, he agreed that lincoln had done more than any other president is to advance the issue of equality in ending slavery. i don't think too many historians would disagree with that and of course the inspired the 13th and 14th and 15th amendment and the great civil rights legislation in the 60s with a pump and when agree that there's more work that needs to be done. >> is a different kind of question for you, how would lincoln convince folks that

broadband is the new canal system. john: i don't think he would hesitate in doing a david and this is why. so when he received the first telegraph message by the present, and his invention since the 1840s and he was really struggling to convince people like this is global communication folks. instead of like pony express and putting something in a package and you know, the slow route, he is sendingw messages that the speed of light craig and lincoln the love this idea and he was in the telegraph from the white house and receiving messages and was something that i and he

would've wholeheartedly embraced. broadband everywhere so that we can allve be helped up to the se network and system in trouble globally at the speed of light. he would've love the idea. >> keep good questions coming please. i'm wondering what lincoln's actions on education work. and if any of his ideas when applied today. john: lawyers a back story, so moral left when she signed in 1862, establishes land-grant colleges printed the state universities that we know today predict the first iteration really set aside 30000 acres for states they could do anything they wanted, his cell apartment produce income from and that was a concept the land-grant. was not a direct subsidy as we know today and was the principal means for the 19th century for

doing something big. since the federal government did not have income for one thing and horse her work the states rights arguments and they should be doing this first 12 they state did not have the ability to raise the capitol and a lot of investments when into these things. especially transcontinental railroad, and so the education, lincoln i discovered was so focused on education because of his own shortfalls in that area. elliott about a year of formal education the rest was so hard and he learned the law in arizona and became a lawyer and studieddi and he was a great reader of all sorts of history. and all sorts of subjects. so he would've embraced the idea educational system and the moral, what many there were

several and it established in the 20th century,h universities and historic black colleges came out of that. native american colleges came out of that and subsequent generations they would've loved printed the real back stories even more interesting thanns th. vermont senator put his name attached to it from originally proposed land-grant universities, really inspired by johnson baldwin turner who knew lincoln's younger man and proposed this whole idea of the land-grant and would've called the industrial university which would be teaching basic things like agriculture and the mechanical arts which became engineering and so you decide different decade. pretty much pass and on to men who try to get the past and 58 and buchanan vetoed it and it

became law under lincoln but lincoln was well a laura turner and in the white house during the civil war and turner was very famous abolitionist and ironically were stephen douglas got his start in jacksonville, illinois. so is kind of a aer father of te moral act and what we call the state college systems and the engineering schools and things like that. >> people what if question. really president lincoln would've achieved the added been able to surmount us second term predict. john: think it is one of our most essential question they ask >>today. onas the low hanging from for me as he would've completed reconstruction had he even lived longer, he would not have invented it in 1870. and then of course lead to horrible jim crow era and huntington some really awful

times in our history. so lincoln would've witnessed the passage, the 13th and 14th and 15th amendment and he would've taken it a step further and he would've ensured that there was political equality, complete voting rights and we generally credit him for being the inspiration of the civil rights laws of the 60 so i think he would've been able to see that through and add to it. it was definitely the sole of all of those laws. >> i am curious, how would you explain or interpret the transitions between the canal system and the rail system. how long did that take an over the stages of development.

john: is a c really fascinating question jim, and it really didn't take long in terms of history because what needed to happen if the railroads to take off his they had to mass-produce rails, got a lot of trees to build the ties they had to create the technology peaks in the rail over long distances and with that came improvements of the steam engine, braking systems, and a lot of this business was centered in chicago. in one of the kind of ironic facts of history is that the car company was at chicago's vegas industries. and literally had to build all of these out of wouldn't lincoln traveled with pullman cars. and another who became a lawyer was present to the pullman company.y. ny for a while.

there was a horrible - site there. and that was a, every one of the stories is incremental in history, how dol you build a better rail is going to be durable in all conditions and honey make better steel and iron. a lot of this happened in the steel mills of chicago, cleveland if you had all of these things that really contributed to the advancement of one technology so we go from canal era which is 1840s rail start to take off because they can mass produce it from the railroad cars and engines and ties and spikes. the golden spike is driven into the completion of the transcontinental railroad 1969, a lot of interesting things happening and they had reinvent how to build the bridges before they iron era, because most were made out of wood.

one great story that i had the book. lincoln was the, he wanted to build a bridge across rock island illinois reverberated in the time, but at the end of the steamboat era, the whole steamboat industry, they had a right to this rumor and no upstart technologies like the railroads going to cost and across their railroad. so there was an incident where the steamboat in a crash lost control and hit the spread printed the bridge was made of wood and it burned to the ground. so the steamboat owner when underinsured ship, sues the bridge company and they bring on lincoln as an attorney to represent the bridge company any makes this interesting argument he does on the case and he is in hungary but eventually is one they makes this really

compelling statement of, this just unabridged, sought an impediment and trader anything, is a public amenity. dislike chicago, the east, the rest of the country president specific. they belong to the public. no stopping commerce or something people from seeing land in the west, that was really important take, i wrote a whole chapter on it. it's fascinating how can constructed this s argument abot the public good infrastructure. >> hr 40 is possibly in front of congress and the descendents of slaves and what wouldes lincoln think about it. john: i think he would think about it thoughtfully and is a complex subject in a really think that weje need to address

the inequities in all of our system, education, healthcare and the fact that there's an environmental injustice, a lotro of toxic refineries and plans that were built in communities of color. there's a whole raft of things that i think that lincoln would fundamentally address because it really spokehi to his sense of fairness and the idea that the quality is true based on your advantage of taking an opportunity and for whatever reason should be addressed. i think it would discussed in an talk to frederick douglass about it and he lived he would've talk to pretty washington and all of the people are talking about it today. and even think that he would've taken a hard look at this.

>> , canals finance, publicly privately and also the railroad. in others a lot of speculation. can you explain how this whole process was financed predict. john: this is one ofd the interesting stories of american finance. example of the state of illinois financed and if loaded dunbar which were horribly inadequate to pay for this and when it did is they said okay we will work the contracts to private contractors and hire their own workers to build small sections of the canal. the management was probably thinking probably not a good idea. today's a to hire one a contracr for the contract out for bid in

the best bidder gets the job well anyway,y, they would send noticesob out to ireland and otr countries and say you want to be a navigator on the canal, they call them navigators and are digging this thing by hand. so first it was this really undercapitalized project that he got foreign financing to allow the foreman came into billing the canals and then into the railroad. enforce the land grant system was basically the land and refined of the money to build it and there was some money raised for the transcontinental can bond there was a lot of foreign investment.

>> phone with 19 books to your credit now, what will number 20 be about pretty. john: i'm hoping about bringing the environment to every neighborhood in the country, climate change is our existential threat and is sort of medical a reverse role of predict and enjoy nature superman in the middle of the city and what is the mean. how we produce our own energy and cleaner air and water and things of god and how you even one of the things that i really discussed of climate change effects everything. if you build bridges hire and redesign our water systems. in fact everything. so this book would look at pedal we like kind break this question had a bit, what is it mean for

my neighborhood. so that hopefully will be my next book i would call it the natural neighborhood. >> would lincoln have pope the brakes on a public partner relationships in the car operation of the federal government and pharmaceutical companies produce there c any analysisna for the public privae partnerships. john: i think so with a lot of these projects when they were done what really provided undergirding of the financial structure of them was the fact that they were able to solicit eastern and european investors. so the most the federal government could do because most of the land that had been

appropriated for native americans they say look, we will give you the land, maybe the state can help a little bit floating to bond but it will be enough them is never enough new octopi the rest of the money to do this. i wasas generally the story of l of the railroads. they came after the transcontinental railroads in the locall systems. there is one side story originally in a journalist reading and they started out a career in the civil war created the first newspaper syndicate became a friend of lincoln's. eventually had so much information on some of the railroad project going out was that he became an investor in the finance, famous house in manhattan, that was henry bullard and foresee lot a lot of that fortune to the railroad

stock crash and went up and down pretty eventually financed common sense in. so is another great story but it would go back to german investors because he was originally from germany and he was a look, you know this railroad that your financing, you might want to take another look the paper and i can help you with us. the main future brokerage fees and they became filthy rich with the stocks. this history is probably as interesting as anybody else. >> of final question. even his so many lincoln destinations, which is your favorite. the tourist destinations. john: is a tough one, like picking your favorite child, that is not fair, come on.

the thing that really strikes me this is not something that most people even associate with lincoln, it's a place called lincoln landing in rockport illinois and is one of those things were lincoln came through there and is only from in congress, who whispered my imagination is how did lincoln see the future of the country. he helped get this canal built and created this grace and in all of the sounds along and buried nearly canal in new york city new orleans all of these things that happened after it when he had this vision. sometimes places have this power to really instill the vision and you try to get it into lincoln's head and all of us have tried.

we don't completely understand him and we never will. but it's important to see what he saw in the field anybody felt. enter no one who aspired to a better country was still worthy goal and a a moral principle tht we cannot abandoned. jim: john on behalf of the school, it's wonderful again to have you back in our audience, thank you for tuning in and we have great programming coming up with several wall street legends including peter cohen and doctor henry and on behalf of all of us again john, thank you very much pretty. john: thank you and is been such a pleasure. i just hope and pray that we will get back to a healthy country again and i'll be in new york city with my friend and i miss all of you terribly. i wish everybody the best. >> weakens on "c-span2" are an

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