i hope to talk about elizabeth again soon. ♪ ♪ >> weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story. on sunday's book tv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 comes from these television companies and more. including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no it's way more than that. comcast is part of a thousand committee centers to provide wi-fi enabled stones or students from low income famines can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. ♪♪ ♪ comcast along these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. this week were looking back to the state in history. >> the footstep of the march in washington was firm with a quiet purpose and a mannerly

rhythm. it aroused even in the centers a larger awareness of the rights of the negros as americans, to share equally in not only the sun and air so clear and free on the day of their march, but there right as americans to share opportunity and privilege as well. >> leisure now to present the moral leader of our nation, one who has conducted in the southern area of racism. doctor martin luther king. >> thank you mr. randolph. i would simply like to say more the great days of america i think this march will go down as one of the greatest if not the greatest demonstration of freedom and human dignity ever held in the united states.

>> follow us on social media at c-span history are more of this date in history post. >> good evening and welcome to the nantucket whaling museum. the nantucket historical association is very pleased to bring you our socially distance commemoration of the 2h anniversary of the whaleship essex tragedy. my name is michael harrison i am the research chair here at the nantucket association and we are thrilled to beat this evening in conversatation with nathaniel philbrick, longtime islander here. matt and his wife arrived in nantucket 1986. and have lived here ever since. matt is a historian and has written numerous books about the island. in the year 2000 p published in the heart of the sea, a book about the essex tragedy which

one the national book award in 2000 for nonfiction. since then he's gone on to write a very good book about the u.s. exploring expedition looking at the mayflower a whole variety of other interesting topic, branching off from nantucket. this is a sea bass for all of the history work matt has done. we are thrilled that everybody can join us this evening. this story of the essex tragedy is a near and dearr story to nantucket and nantucket's identity as a historic whaling point. at the whaling museum is a unique place to be able to tell the story. we preserve the history of nantucket for the people of nantucket. we have lots of collections related to the story. it is in our bones as it were.

we are really thrilled to be have all of you joins this evening for our conversation about the essex. >> hear! hear! i second that. mike it's great to me in conversation with you. there is no one who knows nantucket history like you do. [laughter] >> thank you. [laughter] >> the basic thing, we are here to tell him talk about the essex. the question of the evening we should start with, in case anyone joining us may not know , what are the basic things everyone should know what the essex tragedy? >> the essex loft nantucket in the summer of 1819. just a year afterer the pacific national bank was built. she was a typical whaleship about 20 years old, not in great repair. should a first-time captain, first mate owen chase, 21 men. the cabin boy was thomas nickerson.

they departed and headed for the pacific. it was a normal whaling voyage, not a very successful one as they made their way around cape horn, around the west coast of south america. they decided to venture out farther into the pacific than the essex has ever been before to the offshore grounds. after a stop at the galapagos, they were 3000 miles from the coast of south america when they cited a huge sperm whale, 85 feet long. this is a huge whale. if you know the huge job here at the whaling museum, that reputedly came from an 85-foot whale, just massive. especially when you imagine the ship was 85 feet long. one of the whale boats was damaged. so first mate owen chase drag

that boat up onto the sick and repairing it. the other two oil boats were off pursuing whales. cabin boy thomas nickerson, all of 15 years old was at the helm steering when this huge 85-foot sperm whale appeared on their port se. he did not think much of it. never before in the history of amican whaling had a whale attacked a ship. but this whale had a different intention, began to pick up speed, slammed into the site of the ship, not the men to their side, it would come back at it again, drive the ship backwards, crush the bow like an egg shell. the ship would not sink but fill up with water. the men would take to the whale boats. they all gathered in captain pollard would eventually arrive and say to mr. chase, they were over the horizon had not seen what happened and

would say to chase, mr. chase what is the matter? [laughter] these were men of few words. chase simply said we have been by a whale. many of us, if you don't know about the essence you're probably familiar with moby dick? this would inspire the claimant of that great american novel. her moby dick ends is just the beginning of the esses that disaster. with turn into a survival tale like none other. fearful of rumor of cannibals to the islands to the west they decided to go towards south america, 3000 miles away. it's an impossible voyage. the g great irony they be forced to survive cannibalism, eventually only two of the three will boats would be

cited by rescue craft. five nantucket as we get out of those oil boats alive. three others were left on henderson island. the news came to nantucket and eventually the rest of the country, this was big news. the sea was the wilderness owen chase would write an account of it would become renowned around the country and the world. this was big news. this was a tale nantucket others were not particularly proud of it. it a voyage that went bad. it was a story of all sorts a fascination for those outside of nantucket.

this is a story i realize i needed to write about. there interesting things in this disaster that come to mind as you are retelling it. on the one hand, this part of the pacic they were whaling in had onlnly been discovered by american whalers a year or two before as being rich with sperm whales. this was not realllly a part of the ocean the crewad been to that they knew ver well. they were more comfortable off the coast of south america. but there was money to be made and they ventured out. on the one hand they were in the unknown taking a risk. but then here they are cast into their boats with their ship wrecked. imagine us cast into a boat in the middle of the pacific. you are a reputable sailor you

might be able to do some really great stuff in them. here are professional sailors have all of these professional skills they bring to bear to actually save themselves. the great irony or tragedy of this is they are outmatched by the circumstances. they made a decision not to go to the nearest islands they had heard there were cannibals there. again a reflection of maybe something slightly provincial about nantucket, the limitation of their knonowledge, maybe maybe not. they knelt south america and are going to go to south america. that is where they go and it happens to be sailing against the prevailing winds for 3000 miles in both the don't have center boards and enough water and food does not work very well.

>> i thought long and hard and try to examine in my research, how did they do this? what w were they thinking? this is a story of svival. when you are in svival situation, it is very hard to think rationally. the fears they all had for the unknown pacific. this is very early in pacific whaling. the only thing they knew about these islands were rumors of cannibs. e nantucket others were very adventurous. they had taken it further tn anyone else when it came to the exploration of the world. they were also very conservative. they built their knowledge incremental. unless they heard it from someone they knew they did not trust that information. and so the one thing they did know was the sea, oil boats, oil ships.

and so when forced to it, just as you described here is a whale boat right. the system the later era it is much larger than the essex, they were only 25 feet long. they built up their sides so a larger wave would not necessarily flood it. these have boats were not yet equipped with sales. they rigged up their own sales they have little mass and turn them into schooners. and off they went. finally falling into the only thing they knew, to get back to a civilized post. so for me, the story of the essex is a tale of human survival. but as you alluded to, these guys had tremendous skills ultimately it would be nature the call the shots and what they wou endure in the weeks and months ahead. >> absolutely.

the irony that we see in the story as modern observers, they don't want to go to certain islands because afraid of cannibalism. within the resort to cannibalism in the boats. theyre in these boats for three months, three months in an open boat. that is an entire summer. you are at sea in the galapagos islands they had at that point in the history of whaling it's common to round up galapagos tortoise. they can't huge animals up to 100 pounds store them like stacks of wood in the whole. these galapagos tortoises could live months as long as a year without a food and water and provi the crew is wonderful meat. so when this whale attacked this ship they had all those tortoises.

they put two of those tortoises in each of the whaleboat had some bread and water and that was the key. they did not have a lot of water. and off they went. for me, the closest i could get to get my head imaginatively around what they were going through was who thanks in terms of science fiction. this is like a spaceship and you are in your escape pod inn the mide of the universe. the pacific was space for them really. here they are out there doing their best to try to get back home. >> they know there are other ships out there, ships, american ships, there hoping they pass them. imagining sailing through an area the size of texas hoping you're going to pass one of the 60 -- 70 other will ships out there.

and luck or not look. >> they felt everything went right, the winds worked perfectly, the might be able to the coast south america in a month and a half. their provisions would last that. but of course everything will go wrong. they're always hopeful someone would discover them, that did not happen. they began to run out of water. they were dying of dehydration. when they cite an island. an island they were not aware of. they misnamed it and call that deutsche island but it was henderson island. you cannot make this stuff up. just as they are on the verge of death they cite the silent, sail up to it. there is no water, they cannot find water. luckily it's a spring high and

low tide. dead low tide, bubbling from iraq with usually submerges freshwater. this is positively biblical. and they are safer now. but theyy would realize, this is almost a metaphor for human race on this planet. within a couple days, couple weeks they realize the killing off all of the wildlife to sustain themselves. the birds, and if they say for any length of time that ultimately starved. so they decide to got to push on. it's then were three men, not nantucket as a couple from cape cod and one in englishman realize this is an ingrown group of nantucket others, good luck to you boys were to stay on dry land. so they would stay.

very emotional party. ultimately they would be rescued because the survivors would send a ship there. another great irony turned out that rock from which water would bubble up, as the tide move on spring low would never come again above the tide line. they begin to die of dehydration. they would barely make it, they were on the verge of death when they were rescued. once again it is a story of incredible human endurance full of all sorts of ins and outs. it is a story that really captures the imagination. >> i was asked once by somebody, a few of these people survived. they go through this horrible

ordeal. they come home, what is the importance of this? what is the lasting impact of their tragedy? we think now of airplane disasters or mododern calamities that bring about changes in legislation, changes in safety, the titanic is all about changing rules in relation, so someone asked me what this do for whaling? not much. nantucket others, this had never happened before. it seemed to them like a random act, as captain pollard would say he would be given a ship and depart within months of his return to nantucket. clearly no one faulted him or anyone else in the crew. but as he would say to a young naval officer he met along the

west coast of south america, because the naval officer had just read the story of the essex and he said you are not captain pollard of the essence? he said yes i am priest said how could ever go out there again? pollard would say upon nantucket we have a saying, lightning never strikes twice. for pollard it w would. off hawaii, in a storm they would catch them on french berg shoals. they be beaten to death on the coral, they would take to their whale boats. that cabin boy was with him when t this happened. they would leave an account of it. he said they had to drag pollard off the deck. did not want to get back into a whaleboat under the circumstances. luckily they would be rescued the next day. but as pollard would say to a

missionary who he would meet on his return to nantucket, of all places, pacific islands, tahiti, one of the places that they decided not to go because of commissioners he would say to the missionary back home i'll be judged as a lucky man. yes, that was right. he would never go to see again and live out his night life as a night watchman. >> you alluded to a couple of written sources for this story. as a historian wanting to tell these compelling stories from the past we rely on the evidence that exist for it. i think it's really interesting in this case there are two really compelling first-hand accounts by two of the survivors. then there are a variety of secondhand accounts the missionary who met captain pollard then wrote down what he remembered pollard saying. in the naval officers doing the same thing.

i would love to hear about your encounter when you are on nantucket with these sources that inspired looking more closely at this in writing about it anew. >> when i look back, i did not know how lucky i was. to be living on nanantucket we have this wonderful whaling museum and research center, which has a thomas nickerson's account which he wrote late in life. we should been newly discovered when i took up the story. it's just an extraordinary document. it is the kind of book you get at a stationery store today. he had written out his account of it and done a wonderful of the events. now hold that in your hand is

extraordinary. there is also the own great archive. the newspapers had just been recently microfilm, there is the pound building, one of the resources you guys had was the genealogy had just gone online. and so it was possible now, really for the first time to take two people and figure how close are they were related. i was curious how closely related where the nantuckets? i did that wit each one. figured out how they were all related. [laughter] over and over again. in survival situations it's groups of people that have a pre-existing bond.

whether it's spiritual, whether it's cultural, attend to make it out at a higher rate than those who don't have those kinds and common bonds. that probably helped the fact they're only five nantucket survivors from the will both in the end. the other thing, i went to mystic seaport and spent time in the charles w morgan last remaining american oil ship. spent a lot of time channeling what it would have been like when a whale attacked. went to the kyndell whaling museum then has its own wonderful collection that's part of the new b bedford museum. another key source. so a of these provided, history is not what happened in the past, it's what we telll using the evidence of what came from the past.

do not know everything about what happened. you have these artifacts from the past. whether it's a journal, letter, newspaper account, all of these kinds of things. you take that altogether. they were even crew lists that the nha had. all sorts of stuff. you take it altogether it is the historian's job to to tell the story as best you can being truthful to what historical accounts you have, and inevitably they disagree in some instances between chase and nickerson that happened. then you have to make a judgment call on who to believe. >> it is interesting, the nantucket historical association holds quite a few of these things you work from. in 2015, a film version of your book came out, the big hollywood treatment.

inspired by i might say, inspired by your book. and so here are the nha we took the opportunity to reassess the essex tragedy into an exhibit about it. bring them out and put them on display. do a show about the essex so we have in terms of artifacts. as i'm fond of saying, holds the surviving artifacts from the sussex disaster, all of them. when you look at one way of looking at it one thing that's from the ship there's basically one. it is a piece of twine. it is th most heartbreaking,

you want to describe the twine force insist little framed piece of twine they would take the fibers from sales and create we've with a piece of twine out of it. you often see so much time is passing, you are terrifying all the time. what you do under the circumstances to stay sane you take up the equivalent of a hobby. he's pulled out of the whale boats was important enough with the family the woman who

made it and gave it to alexander starbuck the greatest orientf it nantucket and it was starbuck gave it in 1914 and the ivory frame with a card that says he was in the boat 93 days. and he made this piece of twine. it's a very powerful artifacts. all that's left is a piece of twine very powerful. of all of the crew signatures

silver ladle that's where his former first mate stepped up we have artifacts that reflect the reflects the power of this kind of event the story as it was fetched out of the sea from near where the essex wrecks. sold to man on another ship this is from the essex.

his family is from there, in the 18 after this organization is founded, his family gave the trunk knowiwing the important of the essex and nantucket. he said this is fromm the essex. it's been always displayed as thee trunk from the essex. there is not a single water stain on it. [laughter] and they were in the boat for three months. how would you know you are in the spot where the essex sank? nevertheless. >> it is one of those oral tradition but hey it's an artifact. that is the ultimate thing about writingng history. i will always have huge respect for the tenuous notice of the evidence and our

ability to really understand what actually hpened. it is sad that those who don't know history will live to repeat it. unfortunately are all going to repeat history no matter how well you know you are in the midst of your own time. we are all living in the fog of reality. it's terrifying, now we do not know where we are going. the history is great. you can look back and say this is whe it wasoing. we have the luxury looking back. when you are in the of it you don't know. when things like a trunk float into the collection. [laughter] , who knows how. they almost become an artifact

of the cultural memory of the essex, even if it may not have actually been pollard's trunk or whomever this institution is so important. not only do you have the stuff that connects with laser directness to what happened, you have evidence of how an island culture responded to something like this. it is endlessly fascinating. something the longer i am in this business, theore i began to realize to live on nantucket to stumble onto the story and decide to tell the organization. >> we are happy to have such great people com and use the

resources. the 20th anniversary of your book about the disaster. the number of forms about the book. are there any favorite stories in the process of writing the book? >> this was before the internet had really kicked in. so now you google something and you are led to it. i was using a lot of interlibrary loan to get not only books but academic articles. i was working with library. andd so working very closely with sharon our reference librarian. i was requesting a lot of

things. at one point she called to say some articles had come in, it was a saturday and my wife melilissa said she would be in town to pick them up. and so she went up to the great hall to the reference desk chair and looked worriedly into melissa's eyes and should is matt helm is right? is that he's working hard but he is okay, show him back to the card out of curiosity opened u up the packet to see what wasn't it. the first article was the caloric value of cannibalism. [laughter] so analyze calories and nutrition, what happens when you eat somomeone. when so hence sharon's concern. [laughter] for me this was. [inaudible]

it would be gettiting work on this. it would say have you heard the tradition about what happened to captain pollard when he came back to nantucket? and the story was, pollard was with some friends on the steps of the pacific national bank when someone who had recently arrived on the ferry came up and said i am looking for someone named owen coffin. do you know where i can find him? i would was one of the people on the essex who did not make it. pollard has reputedly said no him? i ate him. how is that for a tradition

coming from nantucket or so. i have always had an interesest in the dark side of history. i am not so much interested in the great triumphs and inspiration. i'm really interested in the scary stuff, that's indexed to whwhat happens to people until the darkness of the essex story had an immediate appeal. i am a big steven king fan. what i did not anticipate was how much i would identify with the crew members during the writing of in the heart and the sea. what was amazing for me, once they got into the whale boats as i was writing it, they were in the oil boats during the winter i in january and

february. that the actual time of year i was writing the book. i had sort of a what i did not anticipate was how hard it was going to be to write about the situation. on pollard's boat there's four of them left. : : :

of the story that you were telling when you are in your book tour in 2000 pretty. >> will and heart of this clinic enough, in may of 2000, more

than 20 years ago and i went on this extensive book tour, my first book tour and it was experience. and it was a wonderful experience but terrifying at the same time. and i was in st. louis and at this books are from still there wonderful bookstore, and as i came into the bookstore, there was a gentleman with a grocery bag holding it in clutching it, and he looked at me as i walked by and what was going on and he gave my type and then he came up to me afterwards and he said, i have been something that i want to show you. and before he opened up the bag, he explained that he had been on nantucket several before and come across the yard sale where there were books for sale. and there was this old bible for sale and he had bought it for a couple of bucks.

and he brought it back to st. louis and then he was reading my book about the essex and captain palmer and he said, he looked back and he said wait, whose name inside the bible. in the open it up and it was this bible. george and so he said, you know, should i have this. do you think that it should be somewhere else they said well you know that i think that the folks of the intricate historical association would love to have it. and sure enough, this wonderful gentleman, he was in the mail by that week and at that point, there was an essex exhibit and within a week, the family bible was on exhibit at that exhibit. it's over me, this was like the power of history to support the bubble up. and once the book came out, i

get a card from the family pittsburgh and i grew up in pittsburgh. and they were descendents and on the essex read and they said that they had the tradition in the family. when he came to grandpa ramsdell and whatever he got her whenever it was time for dinner, they all sat down right away and begin eating they only what happens when grandpa ramsdell that hungry. so that's another tradition that came down through the family. [laughter] so it's been fun when the book came out. it was like something that where the stories just kept on happening. it was really wonderful. >> in the bible during the collection we had in their 2015

joined by the way, your exhibit was terrific. it was so fun, you had a game basically. and people, you would see one of the crewmembers and you would find out what was happening and i was talking to someone who was at that point, sitting a couple for miracles and their twins. in one god one character in the other got the other characters. in one of the twins was eaten the other survived. it was a huge hit. >> something cute. >> chris for those of you in the audience who didn't have a chance to see it, when we reinvented the story of essex in 2015 we sort of looked at one of the core ideas of the story was we really winter visitors to come away with and the stories involved a journey, was a key part of what we wanted to

communicate and that involved real people getting back to that. connection to real people in the past. so we built a reproduction boat at the right skill that you could sit in and you read quotes projection of courts as it gets worse and worse disaster mural on the ocean and then we did this path of heart that you follow the journey to the well past well in the boat split up in these people but sit there and smile and then each of the five or six places, your card which which would say, i drew the card have charles ramsdell and did he stay on the silent, oh no he didn't. it was not one of those men. and that's exactly what would happen is as a visitor, you would see what happened. it course many visitors, there were 20 cards in 20 been and always be looking for george. so those cards went past but you

can get them randomly any of them but yes, very much that sort of horrible journey in getting your mind around but that might've been like. in these are real people describe. >> and they had their whole lives. as he actually and we have artifacts from that read and one of the great artifacts are the houses in which these people lived and they were living in museum in many ways and i live off of the street in the open house, that is still there. and that house that nickerson was in, that he was there at the guesthouse, and nantucket is no longer hunted well and comcast. now there's this guesthouse and it has this part of the harbor house complex and there is another house there and just

amazing that you go to the cemetery and there's all of these i want to taste great this there and i had remarkable opportunity to take to moaning and trickling chases different descendents the sister and brother to his grave. even before the book came out and now his portrait is here. so sort of brought home to me a local story local history and once as for me but one of the aims i had was in the heart of the sea was to take what i have learned is local history in my book about nantucket offshore and try to make it more universal and really focus on this as an endurance situation. as to what happens to people

than the worst situations. and i wanted to not make another well story but something that were if you grew up in topeka kansas and you had never seen the sea, you might be drawn in to the human elements and that's what it is, really the human element and if you don't engage in history emotionally, it really ultimately means nothing to us. >> will we've been talking now for about 50 minutes and we have questions that people have been submitting i think maybe this is a good segue into that so the first question is actually somebody who noticed that you mentioned in your book that mail sperm whale article to as carbon fish and from loud claims that they made to announce themselves and there is a story of whether the hammering was may have

attracted the whale that actually at essex and for person this done research into whether the repair work that led to the attack. >> what is researching the book, out to how how whitehead was one of the four most sperm whale experts on earth and he and his wife and small children to the sailboat and basically sailed very close to where the essex widget down down with very high-tech listening devices in the water and listening, they were really the first ones to develop a good sense of how the sperm whale communicated and through this process of clicks and the females have clicks and males have more like a clink. i kaboom kind of a sound. and clearly they have a real language like most like a morse

code sing infant sequences and they click and i e-mailed al and i said, explain to him as best i could from the evidence what happened and what does he think. and he said, who knows, he said because he was very familiar obviously following the whale and he would think that maybe the wealth sort of wandered into the to my accident and got angry. then he came after him and these are, sperm whale, the mail sperm whale are very territorial. they are like elephants, the male sperm whale will attack each other and fight of the females audit wells. and was who knows, ultimately i have not heard a definitive explanation for what happened. in unless we can find it

distended that that sperm whale who has the traditions granddad the tail, i don't think we will know that pretty did but that's one of the great things about the story, at the center of it is this question, what was the whale thinking. and looking at it and coming at them so is account it feels like there's something going on in the channel there, there is some kind of malevolent beings or something there, what is going on there. it made its way into moby. and you can only imagine but we will never know and i think that is what gives history the real way where something of huge importance happens but ultimately never really really know what exactly happened. >> will that actually is a good

segue into another question which is about we have these accounts the say what happened and they drew straws and certain men died and resorted to. the question basically is how we know they're telling us the truth. >> that is the question when it comes to all evidence in history. and the one thing when it comes to a narrative, people's accounts and letters, they are the person telling their side of the story. so when it comes to chases account, it is the narrative of an officer putting a voyage it went really really bad into the best possible light doing when predict and what is interesting about an usually, historian you want stuff that was recorded as close to the minute as possible. and with things are still hot

and when people had a chance to think too much about it to people thinking about their own reputation and that is what is interesting about that letter describing the first account. it's an interested person recording this, coming right out of his mouth and soon as possible. nickerson's account was recorded late in life when a writer asked him to record his own account. and so that a suspect. but on the other side, he had had the chance to talk to other survivors and get information that chase may not have had. and also is coming from a different perspective, he was 15 years old, he was a cabin boy. he had no great professional state and what happens prayed and so what he revealed are

details about what happened during the initial collisions that chase chose not to include. and that the whale after first collided inside of the ship, ended up in the side clothing and stun and knocked out that was inside of the ship and appealed. close pretty and chase had the opportunity to pick up and kill it, 18-foot spear he put in motion to try to kill this whale that dared to attack the ship and ship than he realizes that it was so close to the right her that it this will take out the steering devices would be disastrous. as nickerson said, if you knew what point have a, would risk losing the record but chase has no mention of this. it's interesting prayed from that instance, can you believe that nickerson did this and i don't think he is making it up and had great respect for chase.

he was in chase's whaleboat they were finally rescued and on the other side the nickerson plague they never had to eat anybody prayed and that was the bread that when chase provided clear evidence and there was or they were reduced to survival and nickerson was a man who did not want to be remembered that way. as a cannibal so when you need to do is look at the various things to think about how their point of view would have been and what they set and ultimately do your best to figure out what happens on your own judgment. and that is why people think to return to the stories over and over again. there is no such thing as a definitive account of any historical lens critically if you move through time and people are interested in different kinds of things. we look back and interested in

telling the story to different way pretty. >> in fact one of the other questions here is asking about others the differences between chases and it printed under nickerson's narratives. the resident different times if you don't mind i will read this. and it is so fascinating to read nickerson's account written later in life he clearly has chases account. he is reading that is a possibly of memory and then he feels and other details were he chooses not to engage certain things that chase is that again with the bradford versus reverting to cannibalism but chase or nickerson said he feels in all these details from the perspective of a 15 -year-old boy who instead of the perspective of the 27 -year-old officer with a group failed to do to make a really interesting study that way.

as widely available anybody can read the sources. nickerson journals actually often and digitized in a weapon trick available on our website for anybody wants to read it pretty. >> is highly readable, is and i slept read and the images are just amazing. just think, that must've been a pretty traumatic process for nickerson to relive this thing. and record it and write it all out and which makes it an interesting process in any event. >> another question that we had is asking about the island that they stopped out for the week on the voyage. if they did not know the name of the island for the didn't know how to let the rescuers know how to get to them. to answer that one or do you want me to talk to that one as well pretty. >> i had taken away. >> linkages highland, and the

use what information they have to figure out where they are and they open their copy of this new american practical navigator, the bible for the narrative the navigators and they look up and it says, this island and this what they think they are so when the three men say behind every else was on, the others are picked up. they hired a british vessel that's headed across the pacific and the pay them if he and they stop at this island they pick up these three men as of the captain of that vessel said yet, i can find and ignore it is a no go get them pretty details out and there's nobody there. there is no evidence that anybody has been there. but he knows there's specific enough to know there's another island across the horizon and that is not invalid jeanette's women work.

in henderson island has since become kind of a vortex for putting plastic and i think it has to do why they ended up there anyway, the current sort of converge on this island so that's kind of why those three will boats ended up there at the beach where they landed, is now full of plastic garbage. this once virgin island, and it was a virgin island not a virgin island but it was absolutely pristine back when i was writing and i had this great fortune to run across the scientific study of a ecology of henderson island, group of scientists that had lived there for a certain amount of time. they all took for equipment and

photographs and hugely expressive and helpful to me in the dc now, that in the last two decades what is happened to that place predict that is just heartbreaking. >> so i think that we have time for maybe one more prayed and are there any other examples of wells attacking ships. >> good question yes there are prayed in the question is what was happening here. where printed for the wells getting more aggressive, as a figure this out and there's also the possibility that there were plenty will ship's fire that made it back. maybe they've been destroyed by a well beforehand. it didn't happen a lot by any means but it did happen and while they were revising the book in the summer of 1851,

there was word came to him of a whaleship in an attack and alexander. and he would write in the letter, it almost has my evil art raise this monster. talk about how man, and i was researching the heart of the sea, i explored every way in which we had recordings of whales attacking his ship there's even accounts during world war ii of sperm whale attacking metal naval ships. this was done in a group and who knows what behavior inspired that. but it did happen and did it happen a lot, it was the wellman worst nightmare because every sperm whale decided to attack a

shirt that and chip, make it very hard for someone in a wooden whaleship to defeat well. >> we have reached the end of her time this evening. thank you everyone for joining us this evening and we are just delighted to be able to have this conversation about the disaster on the 200th anniversary of the event itself. >> really appreciate being here and thank you again because without this organization, could not have written a book and all of the organization i own them huge debt congratulations pretty. >> weekend on c-span to earn intellectual fees, every saturday american history tv documents america's story and on sunday, book tv brings you the latest on fiction books and

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