politician. those that say there are no second chances are that notion is very remote. you cannot risk it. . . . . i could take mistakes i could not stumble and amazing siblings are all going to do well, you don't know for sure it's a sense of responsibility i want to create space or anyone else thinking about do i take risks? what is at stake and what am i willing to jeopardize what i think it's right? >> to watch the rest of the program go to website

booktv.org. >> joining us now on book tb is benjamin powell he is the executive director of institute at texas tech university. he is the author of this book wretched refuse? the political economy institutions, professor powell you over the book with this immigration restriction to prevent exchanges between would-be immigrants and people residing in destination countries are likely the largest policy induced economic distortion in our global economy. could you explain that? >> sure, in the post-world war ii years loosing dramatic dramatic reductions and barriers to goods and services and capitol flows around the world. since the early 20th century with the increased

restrictions of people, laborers around the world. in response to this people move between them their labor to create value for others in a global economy. when they move from one country to another the productivity goes up massively. economists estimate we completely eliminate various labor it would double global outbreak. there is something that comes even close to that. >> what is the policy solution your view? >> this book explores the difficulties of one policy solution. the obviously policy solution to be trade in goods and services. however, people are not the same things as goods.

people when they move can commit crimes, they can create cultures that can impact political institutions. that is what this book addresses but if we allow for the free movement of people when they come from countries that have dysfunctional governance systems, or law, private property economic freedom. whenever the same term when the people migrate to the views responsible in their home country migrate with them , get to put it in simple terms when cuba leaves cubans and come to florida today bring human socialism or just the labor and not change political institutions? the economic institutions make the united states more like cuba. they're less productive two. economists are going to call the new case for immigration restrictions.

it's the most comprehensive investigation of this problem today. we cut the date a whole bunch of different ways, do immigrants actually impact institutions or do they not impact them? or maybe enhance them? ultimately that is an empirical question. >> host: is the answer all of the above? >> the answer scissors not systematic evidence they harm the institutions that are for productivity but we looked across 110 countries looking at initial stocks of immigrants flows of immigrants over 20 are. the what happens or property rights over that time. what happens to corruption over that time period? how does this impact terrorism? for the most part sometimes we find a positive impact to economic freedom. we do case studies and look at

the united states or we have a more open border policy for our founding until 1920. slowly spread of socialist movements from the united states. i limit what was going on in europe. we also look at modern case studies in israel and enjoy it would experience a massive migration from other countries in recent times. the mass migrations enhance. we all have mechanism laid out completely in the book, the selection bias in the immigrant from country to somewhere else prickly place like the united states, they're kind of buying into something. their view is not representative of the average person. in fact i gave you the cuba example is probably a strong one. i'm think of no better antisocial's voting bloc in the united states and cuban immigrants in florida. the come to enjoy capitalist

america. >> what you say to the argument that immigrants steal jobs, depress wage scale? >> that ape a popular belief in culture. social scientist to say the impact of immigration is no support for that. for over 30 years economists have been debating the wage impact in the employment impact on that native pigment comes to jobs there is no impact. it's the mix at the number of jobs but not the net number of them. immigrants displace american workers in one industry, more interest jobs are created in another industry. economic trigger international trade and labor through migration. it's a mix of jobs the relatively more productive at the case of international trade those are things they are relatively more productive at. but as of the pie gets bigger. in terms of net number of jobs

and almost infinite demand for goods and services. we added more jobs. when it comes to wages economists have passionately debated the wage impact to the united states quite heatedly. what it's all boiled down to is strong disagreement about whether the unskilled immigrants in the united states depress wages of dropouts from the united states and if they do, is it up to 7% or a little lower? is it last for a year or two or any longer? >> is not really that important if you look at the big picture of how they impact our institution that could impact everyone's positivity. the other things are popular debate on the news is not that controversial among economists. not all support free immigration, free trade and labor. the reasons are not about jobs or wages or high school

dropouts for the most part it. >> when you're speaking of the news when you see what's going on with the u.s./mexico border people coming in, being sent out, the wall being built, what is your reaction? >> my reaction is we would not have as much of his and illegal immigration problem if we created easier past two legality, legal immigration that is for the vast majority the world it's impossible to immigrate legally to the united states and they say immigrate legally like my ancestors said they have a point i would like them to migrate legally to print you cannot migrate legally without a massive weight you might not even live to see if you come for most countries from around the world for the chances of winning immigration lotteries are minuscule. your ancestors could come here legally because we did not have restrictions. a lot with illegal immigration

go away if you have greater legal checkpoints and not quantitative restrictions that will allow people to come in. >> how do you lower the emotional discourse that we have about immigration in this country? >> well, i tried to approach it without emotional impact and look at the economic impact. try to explain it to rational people. then look at the big concerns about institutions and crimes and say what is the evidence on this? come to better conclusions. i think we all make better decisions when using our head and not her heart and emotions. >> where did you come up with the name? >> the title for the book wretched refuse comes from the statue of liberty. is it the wretched refuge and how they impact our political

economy and our institutions? my answer is they are not the wretched refuge they make america better place for. >> hoosier co-author? >> my coat off there is of the cato institute on a great partner on this book. >> going back to the policy implications of free labor movement, whether still be a process for citizenship or is citizenship an outdated mode to? >> there's lots of legitimate concerns people have with immigration. a lot of times it's a bundle with current policy of how we do things. i don't have a strong objection if you want to make citizenship and make the requirements heart let them come and migrate, for they have access to citizenship ten years and said, 15, you want to make the test harder you want to have it include english language, pulp and

champ pop-culture references to? i don't have a strong opinion on that. if it is a path to allow more people to legally come i am all for it. >> two questions about two different issues. you address this a little bit. changing the nature of a nation, does mass immigration do that? >> i am not sure what we mean by the nature of the nation. it's always going to be evolving. our american culture is not what was in the early 19th century. our political institutions have changed in order to mirror that. mixing immigration will obviously change without spontaneous order is. and welcoming immigrants into

those rather than a lot of the problem in the united states is americans moving away from traditional american values writes the rule of law and economic freedom for people. >> what about the issue of terrorism? >> that is basically a non- issue when it comes to legal immigration. people want to commit terrorist acts the united states is much easier pieces to get to come to the united states. we look at this we find no relationship between immigration in the united states or elsewhere. really being in a conflict is what drives terrorists. >> 1986 there was it immigration amnesty. is that do again and your view? >> listen we've got more than 10 million people residing illegally in the united states. whether it's president trump who is as anti- immigration or obama before him they are not

all being deported it would rip society apart to try to do that. they are here. i don't see how we benefit from having them here illegally when he could be here legally. let's bring them above the board, get them on the books and make it official. i also think you have to couple that with the increase path to legal migration. if you don't, just like before you'll have the reset button people will come here illegally. it is to allow for greater legal immigration but. >> because wretched refuse? the political institutions, co-authored by texas benjamin powell. he is been our guest on book tv. >> here is a look at some books being published this week in the afghanistan papers the "washington post" used official documents and original reporting to take an in-depth look at the 20 year

war in afghanistan, former democratic senator from nebraska, bennett nelson offers his thoughts on how to fix the senate and death of the senate. historian kate clifford larson recalls the life of civil rights activists and walk with me. also been published this week, best-selling science writer richard dawkins provides a collection of book reviews and essays and books to furnish a life, and power and liberty pulitzer prize winning historian gordon wood examines the political debate that surround the creation of the u.s. constitution. physicist stefan alexander argues good physics require stepping outside conventional and fear of a black universe. find these titles this coming week wherever books are sold. on book tv.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> a right good evening everyone. i'm the executive director of the nonprofit program is independent feminist bookstore , were located in decatur, georgia. we've launched the hormone that dominates and divides us just in the united states today. join in conversation