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>> yeah. and if you're interested in urban school, you're interested in it as a complexion scenario, not a sanitized version that happened to have the city as a >> not present type person ap that has the city as a backdrop where you have the gap and shake shack . >> i don't want to maximize

it because this is not the case for people of color and for women for a long time but i dearly believe you go to a university to experience difference. how the new planning design n new financial raises that, i want to go to a university that looks like all. >> it's interesting what that does spatially and psychologically to the mind. it says i'm already comfortable here . >> i don't have to step out of my comfort zone, i don't have to think about what might identity is going to be, i just want to be here to get confirmed. there's a direct link between the material buildout of these campuses and the psychological training is going on. in these environments. >> the next question it's amazing. there's a joke pizza that opened in ann arbor, there's a branch of the joke origin,

what are the things that we havereally bad pizza in the west but one of the things it doesis it makes the students and myself from the east coast feel more comfortable . it reminds us of i think there's something , there's no defense of midwest be stuckas educational but . >> i like the dish. >> just come visit. next question is the huge sports programs provide an additional smokescreen for local displacement and colleges tax-free status this is because michigan is in the elite right now . >> this works a number of ways. stadium building becomes a new fortification and funding comes from the public field and then the stadium produces profits through ticket sales but also in the big ten we obviously seek lucrative tv contracts and those stadiums areusually tax-exempt . and on top of that, we talk aboutgraduate student labor . that is suppressed, the weight is suppressed under the guise of apprenticeships.

being students and not workers and find out shout out to columbia university ikand brown and nyu are either on strike or about to strike and idthe same phenomenon is happening right now on the sports fields so if you're watching the big dance, you have a couple of african-american early basketball players that have t-shirts saying not ncaa property. so we, these universities, they reap millions of contracts and paraphernalia right and the likenesses of these players and under the guiseand again under the guise of being a student-athlete . they receive nothing. and so this becomes another mold using the categories for educational purposes whether it be property exemption or it be the apprenticeship status of student workers in the laboratories or as ta's or as athlete workers being

student athletes, amateur status. amateurism. all these become mechanisms of wealth extraction. they're not anecdotal, they're part of a more comprehensive business model and we need to understand that. and i say you can talk about solutions and i say one of the solutions should be that the neighborhoods and communities that produce these students should receive a portion of the wealth that they create.. >> that's one of my questions i had about the work you do. you have a number of points that come up in the end of the book about community benefits agreement.do these things exist in practice or are these theutopian vision itself ? >> they do. when columbia expanded into west harlem because of community and student activism they were forced to put together a community benefits agreement with which offered constructive jobs, job training.

but it didn't go far enough. even insiders at columbia say that the community benefits agreement there should have been based on the, it was a fixed rate, a fixed amount of money. it should have been based on the total value of thecampus development . when usc built usc village, local politicians, city councilmembers forced them to sign on to a community benefits agreement to get the right to rezone the area but the thing was that was zip code specific because sometimes they'd offer job training or jobs regionally so what happens is you have what suburbanites coming in getting the job in the neighborhood and don't dereceive the job so it has zip code specific job training and construction jobs. they built a firehouse in the neighborhood . so there's there was that. one thing though is that

henry taylor junior who i talk about in the anchor institutions in the90s , he was coming out of a lack marxist urban planning training and so when they brought him to the university of buffalo to put together a plan for their neighborhood, he talked about this is before we talk about them now, he talkedabout the university turning it into a college . it should be opened up. everyone in the neighborhood should be a member of the neighborhood and all facilities should be utilized. every member of the community should have a number ship card to use all the sfacilities on campus. that was quickly shut down. so the point being these models have existed historically and now and in my epilogue i talk about the university impact. >> so quickly i know we're done but real quickly, lloyd axworthy was the president of the university in the 90s and

he had this vision of sustainability that included environmental , economic political and cultural. so he understood that at that time the demographics of the campus were changing, it was primarily going from commuters and whites to urban indigenous and new canadians, what wecall immigrants . that had different needs. they came with families and they were working-class for working for so instead of hiring an outside developer, they created a local development corporation to build housing that was mixed at rates geared to income, affordable, market and premium and the premium units paid for everything else so that not only anyone that was going to school, this is at

the university of winnipeg. you could be doing a mechanics class. if you are going to school you could gain access to this housing. you'd be a resident of the neighborhood so mixed housing. they fired the university of wisconsin winnipeg fired aramark, one of the major multinational corporations. they fired them and created their own diversity food company. that profit shared with workers, 55 percent of the workers are from communities being meaning recently incarcerated, single mothers. they resource raw materials for the food from within 100 kilometer radius. they had household stations next to their food with the workstation. their cooking oils shipped out to be construed converted to biodiesel . so this is a different, when people say you're being so critical, what's the alternative? there are a number of alternatives.

>> even within the campus model.there are a number of alternatives for doing things differently.there are recreational facilities have a community chart. activity organizations have a guaranteed number of hours to use the university of winnipeg recreational facility. a guaranty of hours every week. so alternatives are possible but even in winnipeg there are some and some in fact you said the downtown campus is still not enough. they are directly in the indigenous communities in the north and so gentle left the downtown campus and built his own ranch in the north indian indigenous north and. so the stories are endless. if you want to know more and there's this plug, go to little rock, hit me up on twitter. let's have a conversation. i've been hit with critiques on the book already saying

they offered the either/or, either we can have a university as it is to get rid of universities so this either/or model, we get rid of universities altogether and my response is there is so much room in the middle. there's so many things that could be done in between either keeping universities as they are. there's so much that can be done and to create the antiracist university, the social justice university, the end of the prophet university and the revival of the hepeople's university. that is what's in our grasp. students and community members are saying campus. they're saying spend some of your endowment in the communities in which you sit. they're saying you're a healthcare facility, you receive tax exemption for these negative health facilities and you're not, this is predicated on care, you're not doing enough. so the job of this book has f landed in the middle of a mental and political transformation these

campaigns have been individual. and the service i hope my book offers is to say these individual campaigns for reconstruction need to be placed within a larger vision of this university model. that we need to coordinate, converge and engage in it from a comprehensive standpoint. >> that's so amazing. there's another question that came in and i don't know ifwe have time . >> take your time. >> that is really a beautiful conclusion and this pivots back to talking about pen a little bit. this discusses university of pennsylvania's project there that served as a community amenity and how did that turn out ? >> i don't speak about it in detail because mike coley

talks about in detailin his book i'm saying i'm going to tell you part of the story but get his book if you want to know more about the story . this divide between civic aengagement and the real estate office also plays its way out in those amenities . those were promised to the community as community services but catch for that school meaning the district radius in west philadelphia that would be oriented towards those who would be eligible, to the penn school was oriented towards the area where more faculty were resettling caand it was oriented towards wthe areas where they wereexisting residents . so this is how these things have played out. the amenities have been geared towards the researchers, the students and their families and away from the existing community. amenities in the name of the question becomes for whom? a lot of universities talk about their economic impact and i wouldn't deny that. they bring in jobs, businesses and investors but the question remains do these

amenities and the value as a well, have they ever trickle down in ways that allow the existing residents to be able to profit or do they become a gateway for displacements and evasion? ayso that's what i want tosay . >> i see it here, does that mean we have to go? >> that's a beautiful note to end it on as well as terry and baldwin, thank youfor joining us . thank you so much as well. you slandered destroyed style pizza notwithstanding . >> is like this midwest ubiquity. >> i went through there and it was like st. louis in the front . >> i love chicago deep dish. but i'm from wisconsin on the border so i rise from my chicago style. >> when you come back for the

next book you come through w ann arbor and nick and i should go to the original bodies. >> i'm with you. >> thank you so much for ndjoining us and we hope you stay safe and be well and to all our viewers thank you so much for joining us. we hope you continue to stay safe and be well and we look forward to seeing you at the next event but until then have a great night and thank you . >>