>> host: author carol swain what was the 1776 commission and why did you become the vice chair of it? >> guest: why was i the vice chair? because i accepted it and i was asked december 2020 and by then the election was over and i was told by a number of people not to take that position. i take it because i believe in the purpose of the commission. i think it's very important for young people to know about america's history, its true history so i made the decision to serve and i'm proud of the work that we did in that short

period of time but for someone looking at the objective circumstances it didn't make a lot of sense to them to take it because we knew most likely are commission would be abolished. so i did it for the good of the nation. >> host: what was the purpose of the commissioned?he >> guest: for one thing it was a 250th anniversary of the decoration of independence will be in 2025 so we were to come up with a plan or a method to study the constitution and to encourage schools to reembrace america's history and it was to be a bipartisan commission and i think it was, not all conservatives but it was put together after the 2020 election and so the people that chose to serve for the people that really

cared about the purpose and the mission and that's why i served. it was the only appointment i received in the trumpi administration and it was something that i believe in. i don't do things that i don't leave them and i'll also tell you that i've had three political appointments. i've had to from president was and one from president obama because he reappointed me to the tennessee advisory commission aand there will u.s. civil rigs committee -- commission. i've had three political appointments and i've met for presence in my life. >> host: 1 in the 1776 report that came out it's written in the book, you write to liberally instructiveuc -- pacific on that

unites all americans. >> guest: okay. >> host: what was that deliberately distractive scholarship that you related to? >> guest: before i was part of the 1776 commission i was part of 1776 unite and i think the impetus probably behind the 1776 commission as well as 1776 unite with the 1619 curriculum put out by "the new york times" that was adopted by 4500 schools and we were very concerned about the historical inaccuracies inn that report and how it painted america is a nation that was racist from its inception and originally put the nation at

1619 rather than 1776 that we were very concerned about our children making sure that young people understood america's history and the importance of the declaration of independence. we all know our plan wasn't perfect. all human beings are imperfect but when you look at that document and when you read that document i mean it stirred the emotions of many people and our declaration, excuse me i'm sorry our constitution when you read those documents they are part of the founding documents of our nation so we were very much united on the importance of people understanding the declaration of independence. for me it's the declaration of

independence and the constitution that i think is important and i think they are other things that relate to our nation's history including its judeo-christian roots that people need to know and understand.. >> host: you reference the 1619 project and nicole hannah jones is the founder of that. here's a little of her describing it. >> august of 6019 is our if true founding year and black americans as much as these alabaster man said monuments around the capitol city is true founding father that is their legacy and in doing so we find ourselves in the four and ourselves in the four and a fear of the 1619 project that tells the truth about who we are as a nation and who we can be and in doing so we will stop hiding from our sins but work to make them right.

>> host: carol swain what is your reaction to what nicole hannah jones had to say let's >> guest: the 1619 was the date and the year when the first africans came to america as indigenous servants and initially probably for the first 20 or 25 years i know roughly the dates but the served along with the whites. theyte were freed and many of tm became professionals. they became the back on a freed black america and if you've been to martha's vineyard you'll run across and i don't know if you're black or white that if you're blackck you could be onef them. if they will probably tell you they are the descendents of freed lax. so they were people who were descendents of an diginotar

servant and up until 1661 if a slave were christian they were set free free. four period there were services where s people -- some of those indigenous servants they helped people in bondage themselves and then there was the period were slavery was made permanent but if a person converted to christianity and they were set free that's a part of our nation's history and hannah nicole jones and the 1619 project ignored the fact that there were alwayse polite people who were abolitionists and they fought against slavery and they were why did they set up schools across the south to educate alls

the historically black colleges were set up by why it's so america's history is as people working together. we made mistakes in this country but one thing about america isa because the bard declaration of independence and because of our constitution and our judeo-christian roots we a fort hard to correct those mistakes and that's a part of the american story and that's why america became the envy of the world. >> host: in your latest book which is a bestseller now "black eye for america" how critical race theory is burning down the house you write critical race theory is functionally speaking a new religion. what do you mean by that? >> guest: critical race theory first of all it's a theory that is permeating every institution in america and the people that

are pushing that theory, they argue as you know that pretty much america at least and i'm not going to talk about theoi world but the critical theory as marxist roots but all white have racism in their dna and that they are born with a property inheritance and that they have took constantly become antiracist by advancing racism and there are lots of thingsng about it but people i spoke to said it's like a religion. they are supposed to constantly repeat their sins but there is

no redemption.n. in the christian religion bears redemption and you can confess your sins one time and it's not a constant confession of sins and argues that racism is inherent in and minorities are a permanent and it's something that the people pushing it forward strongly believe and it. what i argue in the look is not that it's just a religion. i argue that it's racist and un-american and it is the civil rights issue of our day and i think anyonene who understands e law understands that it's wrong to demean shame and bully people because of the color of their skin. if it doesn't matter if they are white, black or it's wrong to demean and bully people because of the color of their skin and not all white people, not all

dwhite people are similarly situated and not all black people are disadvantaged and it cripples our children whether we are talking about why children are black children there crippled by criticaldi race they that's being taught and pushed s in schools across america and unfortunately we will find it in secular schools as well as religious schools. has become like a religion and it's something that people need to understand fully and that's one of the reasons that i broke the book. a co-authored book but i wanted americans to understand what critical theory is, where it came from how it impacts our society and how we can fight back against it. i thinky it's very important and americans are seeking solutions and they are uniting across the racial ethnic and political lines. they are uniting against critical race theory because

they know it is morally wrong. >> host: professor swain is there a constant in your view between critical race theory and the judeo-christian heritage of the united states? >> guest: yes, very much so, very much so because i think all racism is sin and the bible talks about it and i'm speaking of someone who is a devout christian and i think it is a sin problem and they also think if we follow the golden rule to do unto others as we would have them do unto us that would go a long way in solving our racial and ethnic problems. i also believe that black white as well as, andy racial or ethnic group can be racist. it's not something that only

white people can be. that's what the marxist arguments of the critical race argue. >> i want to go to your book "be the people." in that book you write people find it surprising that i take offense when i hear national leaders in their speeches with god bless america. why do you take offense to that? >> guest: i feel like i'm stepping stepping on a stepping on the hot seat. i thought we are going to a pleasant two-hour chat but there's nothing about america right now that i feel thatd god should less. we have strayed so far from our judeo-christian roots when it comes to how we treat one another and when it comes to debacle principles and i think if you look at america and the

charters of the 13 colonies all of them were very much focused on christian roots and up until probably the 1940s it was very clear that this was a country that had values and principles and even the bible was used in some schools to teach children how to read as well is just principles and values about how to treat one another. so we have strayed far from that and when you have a nation where abortion and especially in the black community where black women 12 or 13% of population and are 37% of abortions in cities like newbl york and probably washington d.c. and others to wear more black babies are being aborted than born alive.

when you see the scientific experiments where they. new creatures by using human and mixing it with animals and dna to create new living creatures. these are things that would be an abomination of the judeo-christian bible so i don't see a lot that god would bless about america today because this nation has turned its back on him and as i read the bible and if you asked me what are some of the books that have impacted me and that was supposed to be part of our conversation i said the king james bible. i do read the bible on a regular basis and when i think about god's judgment of nation i believe that the united states is part of god's judgment and he very well may use a nation that hates us and we can name a lot of nations that hate america of us in our own

country but it would not surprise me if america did not fall into the hands of another nation. i don't believe america will stay as america. and without a shot being fired its being destroyed by its own people. >> host: as professor swain reference we eyes asked her black to guess what they are reading and some of their favorite looks and you listed the king james bible, took her to washington victor frankel's man's search for meaning they all commenced and currently she is reading fault line the social justice movement and evangelicalism's looming catastrophe.e. professor swain what is that book about? >> guest: i have have to be

it -- happened to be a southern baptist and he is writing about how critical race theory has impacted the baptist church for the baptists have been one of the o most conservative protestt groups in america. in 2019 they passed a resolution at the southern baptist convention to use critical race theory and intersectionality as analytical tools and understanding race inan america. and i haven't finished reading it but it's talking about critical race theory andnd whatt is but also how to impacted the baptist denomination. i would not be surprised if some point in the future if the t baptist didn't split the way other denominations have. >> host: why are you in>>

nashville? get so why am i in nashville? that's a good question because i was a tenured or fester it princeton and i end up in nashville. there are a lot of reasons and one thing vanderbilt university offered me a full professorship and at that timehe i was an associate professor and they a offered me her money. i could say that was part of the reason but i can also say it's very rare for a tenured or instant professor to leave princeton for an ivy league school to go to vanderbilt and back then in 1998 they approached me and at that time the vanderbilt was not the world-class university that it is today. when i told people i was going too vanderbilt they just plant, where? vanderbilt, where is that? i made the transition andd knivs to did the contractor moved to

nashville and i have put to vanderbilt on the map so now people don't ask vanderbilt, where is that? >> guest: in the tennessee and you wrote in 2017 when you retired from vanderbilt i would not miss what american universities have allowed themselves toe become. >> yes, i did. >> host: what does that mean? >> guest: it has to do with i took earlyy retirement. at the university i was a full professor and i could have taught until i wasug in my 80s or 90s of long as i could have made it to my classroom i would be allowed to teach but i left because what isi saw happening t the universities was very distracted with political correctness, the man -- the insanity that i felt was taking

place. i felt like inmates were running the prison because they administrators whatever the students demanded they caved so quickly. when i started teaching and when i was a student myself and as you know part of my background was going to community college and earning a university degree so i have been a student as an adult as well as a professor. iuniversities are no longer marketplaces of ideas and what i found was too much indoctrination and the critical race theory started at the university but i watched to permeate every sector of the university including education and the sciences and the math. i did not like what the universities were becoming think iniv many ways they have becomea

distractive force on our society and they are responsible for a lot of the turmoil and unrest that we have. i think it's a shame the anti-americanism they allowed to take place and for the most part theree are many conservatives now. when i started my career i was not a conservative and i was not a republican. i was a good democrat but i had common sense. my research got lots of attention because i've eyes asked difficult questions and i've always seen things that other people didn't see and my work has been considered prescient. i do have some kind of gifting and i'm able to see things that other people don't see because i'm in connection. when you say what brought me to vanderbilt i can answer that as a christian.

at that time i was going through a transition and this was after my tenure at cranston and i was on this virtual journey.an now i would say footsteps to god brought me to vanderbilt. it certainly wasn't something that made a lot of logical sense but i didn't have family and nashville but i made that decision and i don't regret it. i love the nashville. >> host: carol swain when and why did you become a concert of andorra republican in your lifetime? >> guest: i have always been a deep thinker and wanted to know the why and to what end the meaning of life and the journey and i was in many ways is

spiritual speaker. after my tenure at winston i found myself in a situation where i was earning more money than i ever imagined in my life and coming from poverty, i was in a lot of money and i had attained an early tenure at princeton which was my goal. it only takes seven years to get tenure. i set a goal for three. i ended up going up for tenure in the third year and i was awarded in the fourth year. i was just very disillusioned so i went on this journey that took me through new age religion and whatever was religious i studied it. if culminated with my having a full on christian conversion

experience. in the baptist tradition they would call it a born-again experience and what's really interesting is that this happened between the time -- it was taking place at a time i was negotiating between vanderbilt and princeton and it was not obvious to a lot of people that i was going through this transition but vanderbilt hired me in 1998. i had it chris didn't experience in 1999 and i showed up in nashville is a new christian, born-again and it's not something that i expected or at planned. it happened and as i grew in my faith and became more conservative so is a combination of things that called me to

become a conservative, the christian faith and being around people that shared my values but also i think the world changed in great ways. and when you do have a true religious conversion experience you think about eternity which is really important so all of those things happened and they impacted me and they made me who i am today but i did not become a republicanan right away. i became a devout believer in 1999 and 2000 after i had finished. i had earned four degrees and i had earned my tenure at princeton. i was back to school and earned a fifth degree at el and while i was inea new haven that was whei became a devout lever and i even contemplated at that time leaving academia, which i did not.

but in 2001 i became an independent.t. i thought of myself as a democrat in 2000 minus one i officially became a republican. in 2008 president bush appointed me to the endowment of the humanities at the tennessee advisory committee to the u.s. civil rights commission. being on the commission is an independent i had lots of exposure to different types of people but i had exposure to more and more republicans and it was a combination of the parties platform and what the republicans stood for and what the democrats did for that encourage me to make that transition. >> host: what is it then like to be a black conservative woman in academia? >> guest: you know something i went from being a hotshot to

becoming a pariah and so there were times that were very difficult because people do treat you as if you have either lost your mind or you are the weakest link and you are not smart and you are stupid. all of those things when you're a christian and i think being black and being a christian and a conservative that all of those things made it difficult in the beginning but i reached the age and the point where really don't care. i am me and this is what you get. i accept myself and a lot of people do. i have lots of support in the white community. i may not have support among black updates but i have a lot of support among real people.

>> host: carol swain you referenced a couple of times growing up what was redford virginia like and what was your early life like? >> guest: i grew up in the country and the house that i remember and the birth ways i lived was basically a two room shack and my mother and my stepfather slept in one of the rooms which would have been the living room and the children slept on the kitchen floor and later my stepfather built to rooms on the back of the house. he was not a good carpenter. recently maybe 10 years ago i revisited that house. his part of the house the new edition had collapsed into rubble but the original to rooms were standing. .. know, when i revisited the house

as an adult, it didn't have drywall and had cardboard and wall paper and fake brick siding, a tin roof, those leaky at times and that was the first house that i remember. .. >> and back in those days, if

you carried biscuits to school and did not have sliced bread you were teased because of your lunches. so often my siblingsun and i would not eat our lunches in school but before school or afterschool because we didn't want to be teased for what we were eating. my mother would not sign us up for free lunches. they were available free boxwood available she would not sign us up because we did not take charity. so i would do my homework in school i think my older sister probably did the same thing because we both did very well in school and there were times we may have missed there was one year we missed 80 of 180 school days we all fail that year butki i can remember missing a lot of school coming in and still making an a or b on the test. i think of my mother she is very e intelligent and easily could have gone to college if circumstances had allowed that but she had polio. she didn't finish high school because of that. she was very intelligent and so wasas my grandmother. i grew up in poverty and

circumstances sometimes in the t winter when it snowed we would stay at home because we did not have snowshoes maybe if there is a deep snow we would stay at home and tell it melted and it melted in the spring. >> and you mentioned your mother is 91 and living with you in nashville. >> yes. she lives with me. at least ten years. may be longer. seven of my siblings are alive. buthe pretty much i was the one that got out of the poverty and as a child i was different. and i always had a sense of urgency and felt there was something i was supposed to

do. i ended up getting married at 16 having my first child that 17 going through a period of deep depression and i had people come into my life who changed my life with their words. when i think about where i was and where i am today. it is a miracle. i was painfully shy. in fact i wish i most of my life even into my forties during the time i was at princeton i hadoo an opportunity to be on good morning america or one of those shows but i turned it down because i was afraid. it was my first book but when i wrote the new white nationalism it challenged integration it wasas so important i felt i had to share those ideas.

so that is one —- when i had media training. i had a painful shyness. i really focused on the that fact that they that i was stupid or crazy. i love people and america i don't care what you think of me. i do what i believe is right. i do the best that i can to be a good person and to do what i think would help others. >> as a child often skip it my

own fantasy world. and i was not black and female and what was toni morrison's reaction? >> [laughter] she said. [laughter] that she thought that was amazing that even as a child, you have the book in front of you whatever i said in the book that is what she said. [laughter] >> that you knew enough to want to be the best thing that you can be in america. >> yes. that's what she said. [laughter] host: did she mean white male? >> as a sense of being privilege. i read mad magazine and richie

rich in my fantasy world i was richie rich except my name is davis. so i would put my character in the situation and i was in control of my narrative. that's i got to poverty and a lot of situations. and then n thought this is weird progression of be doing this. but now the older me can see all the reasons why something my network. and i could did not see myself as handicapped or black as a woman.on

i thought you had to be rich to go to college as a young adult. i did not know that people who are smart and black that they're all of these opportunities and scholarships. maybe i would have learned that if i did not drop out of school after completing the eighth grade but i did not know these things until i learned about it later. and i have also shared with people that that not everyone that came into my life did not look like me somewhere white, white men, white women, but they encourage me. they were not interested because i was not the teacher or doctor daughter. i came from poverty and with black schools and communities. plus i am dark skinned.

based on research i read over the years. host: a masters in political science from virginia m polytechnic institute phd from unc chapel hill. >> also my am most important agree which is the associate degree in business. from virginia western community college.

in fact i recently signed up and then some painting. so those to give me advice and so being practical i went from going to be an art major to doing business which was difficult i did not get the math and the english that i would have gotten had i attended high school. so i had high school equivalency before i entered the community college. and so when i studied i made the dean's list but when i didn't, i didn't. so bachelors of criminal

justice when i applied for jobs with a two-year degree in business, i applied for jobs to be a store manager and i was told they needed a four-year degree. i was told i need a four-year degree and a need to be able to distinguish myself filling out enough job applications where i saw places that i could have distinguish myself to put awards and those i needed to make another degree and i chose the field that had the least amount of math i knew i would do well in anything that was not too heavily mathematic. i chose criminalse justice.

i also chose it was a combination of political science, sociology those are things i was interested in. and then 40 hours a week but then i was at the community college and that i graduated magna cum laude and and i won thehe prize the highest gpa in criminal justice and i started a scholarship for minorities sosc i worked full time i was a

mother sometimes having to take my children to work at night and went to school full-time so how is that with honesty. host: i agree with the math part. welcome to in-depth. professor and author doctor carol swing she started to write books in 1993 with black faces and black interest. and then to reclaim the faith

them promise in 2011 and how liberalism l steals children's hearts and minds command in 2016 and a co-author of the 1776 report which came out 2021 as did black i.c.e. for america critical race theory burning down the house currently a bestseller. we have been talking for about 45 minutes and now it's your turn to join the conversation.

>> i have a new book coming out next week on countercultural living. life and marriage and ethnicity. host: countercultural living.

>> that would be published by renewed.org. with unity training solutions.com and i am working on another book about the birth of unity training and how i came up with the idea. i'm writing shorterat books and more quickly. >> anyone that's publishing an academic book but the

publishers don't always invest that much in marketing the book and then to own the copyright materials. so that is why eyes self-publishing that some point i would write my memoir i might find a traditional publisher but i don't see the advantage of using one anymore. because i can hire experts that know how to do the cover design, and take it to the process. so i don't have the need to have an additional publisher. if i was an assistant

professor somewhere i would have to have a traditional publisher and other major presses i don't need to prove anything. >> what does that phrase mean the new white nationalism. >> at one point that was the most important book and now the most important book certainly is the most important one so what was new about whitesm nationalism it wasn't the old students go white supremacy so to try out

the clansmen. and then to say all of these ignorant and stupid people. and i was interested in people that who put in a different kind of argument that was more intellectual. but what really got me concerned and the images for the book was there were high profile at the level that was happening back then.

and by the world charge of the creator he killed two people and shot 11. and committed suicide. and into commission interviews and that they seem to be leaders of right or national rights organizations high-profile individuals but

the language of the multiculturalism the identity politics that it provided an argument but the problem with the identity politics they need to focus on history and there was a double standard that i knew i would be problematic for young people. and that i need to be concerned about.

that wasn't necessarily expressing violence but focused on double standards. and perceptions of violation of civil rights. looking at what's taking place todayha in america so we have to move awayhe from identity politics toward the national identity. t and then to be their own self-interest. >> . >> thank you all very much i'm a big admirer of the profession. is want to make a little

comment first recording she is exactly right about america destroying itself from the inside. these groups like al qaeda and isis. so that they are fighting white racism and people are taking a knee for them now. anyway my question is about. >> anything you want to .ddress >> i'm not an expert on foreign-policy but afghanistan

and people that travel all the time i would be crushed by the whole idea that the state department and the military they will not rescue me. it was just a disgrace what was done there and it even makes you wonder if the biden administration is advised by islamists. because anything that happened then offended them with billions of dollars of equipment behind we have left behind the people who work for us and risk to their lives. we left them behind it is evil what we did. god blessht america because

america is an evil nation right now. not all americans aren evil. but as far as taking in refugees the t problem with the biden administration as far as i can see is that they are not taking in the right refugees. so the afghan man bringing in thede child brides and marriages taking place just so that young men who may be part of the taliban or al qaeda so they can come into the us. but the islamists have a lot of influence over the us and politicians so congress is bought and paid for and this

includes republicans as well as democrats. i have bipartisan criticism. it's terrible and horrible and that we have lost respect around the world. i don'tit know how we gain. it troubles me we have done this horrible thing. host: west virginia you are on with author carol swain. >>caller: the first comment i would like to make you said you are dark skinned. i don't see any skin on you but the glory of god all over you. >> thank you. >>caller: i want to thank you for your life. think your mother from me for your life. and when you start talking about your religious experiences the hair on my

body stood up the whole time you were talking. i just consider you a sister in christ. >> thank you so much i consider you a brother in christ. one race, the human race. in the book by victor frankel that there are two races of men. the race of of the decent men and the indecent. so to show some love and respect for one another we could get along and not have these problems in america that have been manufactured. black people that hate america. host: that goes back to her favorite book list the king james bible, booker t.

washington book on slavery. cornelius, alexandria louisiana please go ahead with your question or comment. >>caller: thank you to c-span and god bless everybody. and then there is a bible college name louisiana college and i thank you would be a great guest to have to talk about your book forgot to know if you will do a book tour. i served in the military as military police officer. so from 79 through 1994. i plan on buying your books here in alexandria louisiana.

may god bless you and god bless america. >> thank you. host: do you do book tours quick. >> when people invite me to speak. but i self publish so i don't have a publisher. people see me on tv. icon when they call me. msnbc or c-span or any of those places that have contacted me. i always say yes because i think we need to do more conversing with one another and the solution with a greater understanding and less hatred. >>caller: thank you for the show. but in the book of hebrews the

word of god said that we must run our ways through the way —- the race of five. and with the 1776. in 1565 which was the founding of saint augustine florida. if we base the things on the execution of slavery and the expansion it is based on the english colonies. where thehe spaniards and the french are different their

catholicism and culture so let me ask you a question. when we talk about america being great. do you think that we are being deprived to be multilingual if we are to be a great nation? >> i'm sorry. multilingual? >>caller: if we are multicultural melting pot should and the language just be more than just english? i think the webster dictionary not daniel webster. >> here is what i think. the nation and the culture and all of those things that unite us it's important to have a common language to communicate. i have been in foreign countries where i did not know

the language. and i can remember and i was in great pain with my stomach and without an interpreter had to go to a pharmacy at the airport and use my hand to gesture and stuff like that to get medicine. i would hate to imagine what it's likee in a country if you did not speak english. it's important for americans if they are interested to know other languages. and it has to have a common set of values. and with those inaccuracies

some of those have been corrected but but with that project more than 4500 schools. i find it very troubling as do i find teaching young people to hate america and hate each other because we are inviting young people and children who naturally think in terms of race. they are playing with their friendsg and they are playing with billy or sally. whatever the name is. my black friend or my white friend but later they are racialized. that babies as young as six months can be racist and young people need to be taught to see race and there is one race, the human race we should

not focusing on differences but on our common humanity. host: when i was a young man, segregation existed. i always worked to bridge that gap. i am fully convinced that systemic racism does not exist in america. although it is clear a small minority would like to create this division. >> i tell people i was born 1954.er that was brown versus board of education supreme court case that ended discrimination in public schools throughout america in virginia. we weree in a state of massive resistance. it was late 68 when schools integrated in virginia. and with the civil rights

movement taking place. and i watch the signing of the 1951 —- 1964 civil rights act 1965 voting rights act 1960 open housing act. i watched systemic racism collapse under the weight of law that made a sequel on —- under the law. and with that discrimination and prejudice. we don't have systemic racism in america even other people that try to bring it back on so for those viewers who may describe themselves as progressives. what progressives are doing they are we segregating our children in colleges and universities separate dorms, separate class sections. separatism.

and there are some public schools that are separating the black kids that is part of what the civil rights movement again in violation of civil rights laws. i would encourage people if you don't agree with that. we have already made a decision what kind of nation we are passing the civil rights act in the amendment, we need to push back this is racial ethnic and partisan lines. we do not need to be divided. this is wrong on many levels but also illegal. and unconstitutional. and my new book, critical race theory is bringing down the house. it has two chapters on how to push back. we have to push back and i believe critical race theory and all the stuff that is taking place right now will collapse in the next couple of years because it is illegal

and unconstitutional. and it is hurting all of our children and telling black children that they are victims.su successful because i did not see myself as handicapped because i waspo black and poor and a woman and that as a single mother. all of those things i could've used as excuses. i worked hard. i was able to overcome the circumstances of my birth to be the person i am today. and not all people that look likeke me. host: if you cannot get through on the phone lines. you can text. fortune from new york city good afternoon. >>caller: listening to

doctor swain i must agree she sounds very impressive, but there needs to be some clarification. made based on certain comments that she made. she said in the fifties but in 2021 it no longer exist but i disagree with that factor with her fact. and then blackman that are targeted and black men that are not given opportunities on the cause of vacation in this goes for those as well. i understand you can pull yourself by the bootstraps which is great.

but if we are in the system where everyone can do something with their god-given ability to initiate not be an issue. the issue we are facing is just that once you are a certain color you are targeted by certain institutions. i would like to hear your comments based on that. host: before we hear from doctor swain tell us about yourself. >>caller: actually i am a history teacher. and i understand the history of this country but the things that split this country with

racism and you yourself said what is your perspective on the new form of racism? host: we got the point. >> first of all i sympathize with the collar and his perspective. and i do have two sons, two adult sons. one is 50 and one is 47. i raised my children. so i am familiar. and i'm telling everyone more than they need to know. i have been married twice to black men. so i understand the perspective on —- perspective that he articulates. and it is important as far as

the police are concerned, if you actually look at the data there are certainlyse fewer cases of black men being shot by white police officers today. i am not talking about this year but if you look at the historical data. things have improved. they improved a long time ago. if they take a case they play it over and over and over again based on a small that if information. especially in the black community we do have a lot of problems. not all of those are related to racism some of those are related to the circumstances. we do have a right and inability to choose.

with thatns black on black victimization rate. there are problems in the black community that cause them to have more interaction with police then they should. and that we have to focus on changing some of the behaviors in ouror own community. we have to take some responsibility. white people cannot make things equal when there are other factors involved. we like at those disparities when it comes to learning academic success. there are studies that show that black children spend the least amount of time studying of any group and that includes the middle class back. —-d black but then it goes down with black studying the least

amount of time and if you look at the crime rate with the black on black crime rate, that is shameful. i don't thank you can always blame other people. because there is always poverty and peoplee like me. i don't consider myself the exception. there are a lot of people that help me along the way. there are many helping hands. but i was willing to work hard. nobody told me i was a victim that i could not do something because of the color of my skin or the fact that i do not have people telling me the negative messages that black children receive today. so police hate them i know many police officers. of why they became a police officer and in many cases they were called into that

profession. maybe as a child they have their own encounter who rescued them. so these are human beings. so like any profession you might have people who should not be an it but the vast majority of police officers are caring, loving, human beings that are doing a job that we need them to do and we are so unfortunate we have this narrative we have this anti- police focused so much on the negativity because it's not constructive for our society. that's pretty much what i have to say about that. i respect with the collar has to say. i disagree with him. and i believe the black community of which i am a part of, i don't believe in this equity thing we get equal outcomes. from the unequal effort.

ie believe in equal opportunity. that is what ien experience. i have made decisions to study to become an honor student i made decisions when people may have been on vacation. i was hitting the books. i workedd as a sales clerk, i worked in the nursing home, worked in the garment factory. i sold things door to door i've worked menial jobs and in other possibilities that america offers. and that people should stop complaining and roll up their sleeves and start working and that i really hate the critical race theory. we are destroying it from within with our negative

anti-american messaging. host: cincinnati good afternoon. >>caller. you have influenced me in a huge way. >> thank you. >>caller: i was raised to believe. i went places and never went to go again. but i was taught that i would never be anything more than that. so i believe what has to happen innd the black community as we have to get together to have some uncomfortable

conversations about what is going on in our community and take that upon ourselves to do just that. start beating yourself and move forward or you will be stuck i was stuck for a long time i don't ever want to feel that hopelessness and that fear of never again. both of my kids went to college they are doing really well and it is because we didn't you have to break the cycle at some point and the mentality. >> you are so right. i was called fish eyes and frankenstein. i have a scar.

i thought i was the ugliest person in the world until i got into my early twenties and people started to say you are attractive. when i married. i did not marry for love i was so thrilled anybody would have me because my self-esteem was so low. those are the things that affect thehe choices that i made. i felt unattractive in the negativity. so ior made bad choices also. host: the next call comes from stevensville maryland. please go ahead. >>caller: yes. thank you so much for you being you and all that you have accomplished and your courage and doingin what you felt was right and even the

abusive language. and also i wanted to say many of our problems in the country seems like they are labeled as raise i feel close based on her spiritual belief. my background is very different from yours. i'm so angry about afghanistan in a way that has been handled. host: we appreciate your comments.

anything you want to address? >> i appreciate the young ladies call and i understand what she said about faith. and a lot of our problems relate to social economics. the social class. because when i was working in those jobs i was working alongside poor whites with the ten center 25-cent per hour wage we all wanted better for our children and i go back to one race, the human race and within christianity and we're all brothers and sisters in christ. we want —- adult see the race see my friends i just people could love one another.

and not to be caught up on external things in the things that don'tre matter. i just wish people would realize there is an agenda and what is destroying america. host: in her book she writes the academic world as defined by cultural relativism. what is that? >> that ties into again postmodernism cultural marxism that feed into critical theory but there is no absolute truth all cultures are the same. there iss no right and wrong and that is part of the message that you get it

universities in the culture of relativism. at one time that there is no absolute truth but then they seem to have identified an absolute truth. and in many ways have become, they have their own religion going on to decide who is in and who is out who was to be bullied or canceled. we haven't talked about this but i was canceled because of an opinion that i expressed and it strayed so far from the whole idea of america being a nation were you have freedom in the first amendment and freedom of speech freedom of association o that those that would attend and destroy our constitutionon so we are regressing as a nation and as

a people it is co-authored with the man who was a pastor because so many young people that were raised in christian homesth and families that went off to college not just secular college it can also be a christian college. by thanksgiving they were questioning their faith and by christmas they were atheist. thee political left has the agenda and they operate just like a religion. we want parents to know what they would encounter when they go off to school and what is taking place with the public schools even k-12 with the agenda and that people were being exposed too that many parents were not aware of. host: this is a text message

for you. what is your opinion of the new laws restricting access to voting in texas and georgia among others quick. >> i don't see any new laws restricting access to voting. i think the voting rights act and the various enacted in 1965 has been extended many times. and the voting rights act was to remove barriers to voting. there are no barriers today to voting and the staff now with the ballot harvesting the supreme court has ruled against people were saying absentee ballots they did not request and i know some relatives in virginia who had never voted to her three people showing upp with ballots, pretty much to vote which they did.

this is and how a democratic republic is supposed to operate. so we need valid integrity. where people can turn in balance so there should be national identification. that is not a problem they cannot live inli this nation. if you have public assistance you need identification too sign up to get a check. social security you need identification. it is not a problem. so i don't see this. i think the democratic party , i hate to be partisan, but the democratic party has an agenda they are using racial

minorities and black people to advance their own agenda. and that this whole thing of voting rights being impeded. voting rights are not impeded what they are trying to do is take away each state's ability to govern its own voting laws and to nationalize that. it's not in our interest for the federal government to have more power. there were things that were done in the past election that were documented with election irregularities because of covid and those measures that were allowed because of covid that they should not be allowed in 2022 even though i think there is a lot of people that would like to bring back those restrictions and use covid again. host: you mentioned being canceled. what happened? >> it's a story on —- it's a

long story how much time? host: we have 35 minutes. >> i t try to be transparent if not itnu doesn't work i was born transparent. but january 15, 2015 after the attack in france that happened on january 7, 2015, i wrote an opinion piece that criticized islam and i said it was not like other relations and that posed a threat to us to talk about the need for muslims to understand our constitution and our way of life that set off a firestorm nothing that i've ever done in my life has been as controversial as that. the day after the newspaper published the article in the tennessean i knew my life as

it was in the past was over i was called a bigot and a hater. i was harassed for more than a year. and it was a factor in me making a decision to leave academia and there were protesters they were not my students that had ever taken places from me but from other universities across the country that did a change.or petition to have first have me fired and then she is tenured you cannot fire her then they wanted me suspended then they realize she is tenured you cannot do that then they wanted me to be forced to go through mandatoryiv sensitivity training then they found out they could not do that. was a very stressful period in

my life labeled and harassed and marginalized and called all sorts of names. it was very hurtful. two years later i made the decision to take early retirement. a lot of that had to do with i didn't want to be in a stressful environment and at my age i'm thinking i cannot be doing my best work under the circumstances. it's not where t i need to be. i struck out on my own and i started to businesses. carol swain enterprises, unity training solutions and a nonprofit of a 501(c)3. and pretty much i'm out there in the role sharing my views and my faith. my classroom is the world. welcome tola my classroom. into those videos and various things i have reached over

77 million people. far more than i could have reached in a university classroom. so for those people who were trying to cancel me and to and my influence they actually gave me a bigger platform. the more people attacked me the more followers i picked up on social media. so please attacked me. attack me. attacked me some more. . . . .

now i wonder with all of that work and from my perspective, i think you have impact of conservatives who defined themselves as conservatives, i wonder if you have an impact your view on black community at large and some black community toward a more conservative view. >> iran for mayor in 2018 and 2019 and i campaigned in the black community, my office was set up in a historically black area and i got to know people and they got to know me and i had a great experience and i came in number two for selection, chemically the second election and by the other

candidates, nashville is a city never had a republican mayor, iran is a republican but i had some democrats endorse me it was a greatas experience but now i m working in an organization -- i've been to the rallies and i do a little short segments for them, called against all odds by talk about my life and experiences indictment scores of young, black and hispanic preservatives and some of them became conservatives because they washed my videos for saw me somewhere so i have an army of young people and they are not just black, they cut across every race and ethnicity who supports me and followedsu me, i love them and some of them tell

me i wish you were my mother or my grandmother, or you romantic remind me of my motherel or grandmother and that's okay, i don't o mind reminding them of their grandmother but i am an impact with young people think we can do better in america goes back to how we treat each other humanity and individuals during on to others how they would do unto us. i hate the critical race theory and diversity equity and inclusion training is focused on dividing americans, critical race theory and marxism, that will not bring about racial reconciliation. racial reconciliation worker, you have to have people work together. looking across racial and ethnic lines, it cannot be an unequal relationship for one group expected to do all the work in

the other group it's expected to receive, you have to work as equal partners. the comes to the black community, one of the books i talked about impacting my life was washington from slavery, it's a book i read as a child and i believe it was a factor in education in washington came out of slavery and is able to get an education because he wanted an education and worked very hard for that education he became the founder of the university and alabama i think a lot of young people talking about systemic racism and complain what they can't do because of racism, they need to read washington up from slavery and when we talk about black wall street and racism of white people, need to talk about the fact that black wall street was

established created less than 60 years after slavery ended so these were blacks who did not get government loans and set aside, they were able to build a community in the city and town where it was the envy of the area so the whites were involved in turning down black wall street, there's a lot of jealousy involved, black success not based on government loans anand handouts. >> carol swain, what's your advice for somebody who wants to office? >> i think they need to sit down and figure out why they want to run for office. we have too many people who want to run for office. i think we need people not running forar office because of the power, they want to go to congress summer stay in office from many people willing to make a sacrifice if they have

something going for themselves they are willing to step away from something to pour themselves into the nation and the betterment of everyone and willing to lose office if they are called to do something unpopular but it's the right thing. we have too many people there for themselves so if you want to run for office, make sure you know why you want to run for office. is it about you or is it about the nation as ais whole? too many people in both politicalny parties who should t be empowered. >> would you do it again? >> me? >> yes, ma'am. >> affect i don't think i'm called to run for office, i think got pulled me to hold politicians appointed countable. somebody approached me about an appointment, i would have to wait seriously and pray about it

and i've learned never to say never because if you look to me five years ago and asked me if i would run for office much less mayor, me run for mayor? maybe i would consider running for the senate or something but mayor? i would say no i would tell you i was not talk to run for office and yet i did so i've learned never to say never but it's not something i am up to do. i think i can have more influence doing the things i'm doing right now. >> mount vernon, new york. go ahead, melvin. >> wonderful. i am 81, my wife and i have been married 60 years, i think it is pretty we stepped foot in every statement i don't know how many countries. i was in the military 26 years..

we are both retired now and i did a lot of thinking about the status of our nation in general, so much involves how children are raised. need to have two parents and the family is number one. hopefully the gentleman, they are working and i think my faith as a christian as i look back on my life, it's he in terms of living a clean, proper, sensible life as i think the lord has paired for us so when we don't have two parents and the family don't teach the children with the good things the bible tells us, we don't lie and steal and all those things, so many of our

kids don't have that opportunity to know that's the way he wants you to live. >> right, thank you for your comments. >> i agree. all this focus on systemic racism and equity research shows a young person born in poverty they finish high school, if they get a job, if they wait until they are married t have their first child, they are not likely to be poor. anyaneh household single parents have, by woman or man parents, they are going to be poor and a lot of the problems stem from property and the fact that you have broken homes yet we have people argue traditional family, is a european idea. hard work is a european idea. math is racist in standard

english is racist, planning for the future is racist, all of that failure because any of us who have been successful and i'm sure among your viewers we have a lot of successful people and people professions, they know you have to get to places on time and you have to learn math in standard english and there's so many things and having the moral background, those things are important. they don't belong to white people, they belong to all people. >> our guest on foot tv, author of these books, black faces black interest from a representation of african-americans the promise that came out in 1993, you white nationalism in america debating immigration zero seven. reclaiming america's faith and

promise 2011. abduction, how realism steals our children's hearts and minds 1776. reporter: black eye for america, how critical race theory isic bringing down the house. both came out this year end she has another book coming out shortly this year. agricultural living, countercultural living life, marriage, race, gender and materialism. carol swain, on your twitter feed is o has we the people is your trademark brand. what does be the people me. >> the we the people in the constitution to stand up and be the people to reclaim our nation and our world. when i wrote the book, i was concerned about our country and that was the first book where i focus on communicating with my

colleagues my later book cap and books stopped right in front asked the audience with the exception of debating immigration so debating immigration are two volumes for 20077 and 2018, those are essas accessible to an educated audience but these new books were written for the american people but i wanted to take us back to judeo-christian roots and our founding documents i think every american should read and when i say every american, i'm talking about immigrants and people here in america who want to be part of our culture about include the declaration of independence, the constitution and i would say even the ten commandments in the bible because the ten commandments enforced american laws and values across our nation that's for sunday laws came from to

understand america, you have to understand the documents found important. in the book we the people, there's a chapter on america's founding and i deal with different sides of the issue, lots of citations and visible, godless constitution cap points out god is not mentioned in the constitution and that was done because -- not because the people were trying to keep religion out, consider religion sacred and there is a conscious decision not to have a religious document when they drafted the constitution but i think every american needs to read the documents and understand what it means because the documents lay the groundwork for everything that happened subsequently,

blocks been given the right to vote, women given the right to vote, thehe civil rights act, al of that come out of we are as a people. in america, with made lots of mistakes but we've always tried remedy our mistakes and our nation became the empty of the world, i feel like the america i love that motivated me to reach for the american dream, that nation no longer exists and i see that america is teetering on the edge of a precipice and i believe we can falter china, iran or any other nations because we turned our back on god, we are a godless nation and deserve judgment that's why i

can't say "god bless america", i hate it when it comes out of lives of people for destroying america. >> another text from las vegas, i'm still trying to figure out how math is racist. [laughter] >> me, too. you think about the racism -- this was a bill gates funded study of mathematics, the young people are being told math is racist i teachers should not demand right answers forer minority students in short those students will not grow up mathematicians, scientists, doctors, pharmacists, nurses, anywhere you wear a mask because every field requires a mask and eyes a person who struggled with math, i still had to take maxima i took when media math and community college, i had to get

through statistics courses in my first book, i have multiple regressions in the, i had to learn it to get my phd. i learned what i had to learn and that i forgot it but i had to learn it to get through school. >> april is calling in from santa monica, california. the afternoon, april. >> hi, first i would like to say i agree we are one human race, despite i would like to stop using the term racism and referring to things as racially different and racially constructive because we are all one race in that's human. that said, this country we live in going through what it's going through, found on the myth of white supremacy and i don't

understand how teaching that is teaching eight, it's just teaching the truth. i am married to a white man and i was my sisters and i want us all to do better and i think it's important the myth of white supremacy will affect in full sunlight and acknowledge the fact that the founding documents in the constitution, all of the wonderful things that came out of the constitution, amendment to the constitution, the written hesitation, amendment, things that have to be fought for and i daresay no one thinks women who fought for years to the right to vote hated men, they just wanted to be up the table with men. >> let me tell you, first i appreciate your call but the

three fifths clause of the constitution, you need to look that up because it's a false narrative when the constitution was ratified, it had nothing to do with black people being three fifths of a human being, it had to do with representation in congress and a non- slaveholding for the compromise because state was a representative for 30,000 persons. they had 600,000 slaves, they were pushing that population, they would notot allow them to o that for people because they would give them more representatives in congress so or how many representatives they would get in congress so the people who pushed for the three fifths clause, they were the abolitionist say something you can look up from even wikipedia

gets that one right so it bothers me, just like her to an educated people, some with law degrees repeating what is a false narrative and ally that's easily refuted by going to the research are as far as america being white supremacist country, people here in this nation, going back to 1619, america was not out of, 1776 with the declaration of independence, that's when the nation we call america, united states of america was founded, 1776, then we were a british colony and slavery, people roof released

after seven years and many of those people who'd been servants, they themselves got indentured servants so they got slaves. slaveryt became permanent much later it was agreed to become permanent and there were always three facts in america who came here through the slave trade who came here through that but there were three blocks from of many held slaves themselves, not just family members so native americans as well as whites and black held slaves some slavery is on all america, not just one group. >> victor, go ahead.

>> thank you, i've been following you, your interview. my quick question, critical race theory is so i have two questions, when did you become from democrat -- number two, i notice intellectuals like you in the black community, for the product the country, you don't need to beev in the system but e democrat in the country -- >> i think we got the two questions. >> i think i understand his question.s when i became republican, was the second question?

>> the second one, black conservatives academic scholars are proud of the u.s. in his view while democrats and leftists are not so much. >> right. i stated early in the program i have a christian conversion experience late 1990, 1999, 2000 i became a devout christian believer and ase i grew in my face became uncomfortable with the democratic party if you are christian and you read the platform of the parties, fair we are and very different but they stand for so i became uncomfortable with the platform and the democratic can work advocating but i was not ready to become a a republican. i became an independent and hours independent up until 2009.

president bush put me in the tennessee advisory committee in the u.s. civil rights movement -- commission, i'm sorry. those were two political appointments during that time, i was appointed by republican, i started getting invited to barry's offense and i got to know some republicans personally and initially as independent, throw rocks at both political parties but at some time i decide i didn't feel i could vote for democrats a longer based on their party platform and what they stood for because of my faith and i realized the republican party is perfect, we are all imperfect, we are human

beings but it lined up closer to what i believe in so i made the decision in 2009 to become a republican so that is how i became a republican. black conservatives have varying views, different views of conservatism, i am a christian conservatism, some are libertarian. we differ quite a bit but i do think we all love america and we believe -- i grew up believing was the greatest nation in the world but now when i learn more about the things our nation has done and the shame of afghanistan various things our nation allowed to take place throughout history, i realize it wasn't as great as i thought it was but we are all imperfect. what we have inrf america is a t plof people who want to do the right thing and i think the american is not a

racist, they love their fellow man and want to get along it cuts across whites and blacks. also, the average black person, very much like the average white person, we have more in common than we have indifferences. people just want too get along, live their lives and not be discriminated against whether you are white or black or another group, he don't want discrimination and i think if wh did not have so many quote leaders and i would say they are pushing their own agendas, we have a better nation and a better world because the people leaving us now, some of them by foreign powers and some of them are people that don't care about the communities they represent, they care about staying in office and we don't need any more political leaders like that, someone out there

wondering whether you should run for office, if you want to run for office for the power and not because you care about people and making aab better nation ana better world than stick with what you are doing. and sabrin. don, you are the last : >> great show. incredible amount of respect for your guests. putting yourself in a dangerous position her political views being african-american, i shudder to think of the threats

i have a couple of quick comments, i happen to believe two of the major evil or disastrous in our country that has becomeme disastrous are education and the democratic party. >> okay, who got his points. back to higher education in your book abduction. theou want me to respond to caller? as far as threats and fear, we are all going to die one day and we don't know the manner of our death, if you are supposed to

die of covid, you jive covid. i happen to believe as a christian, there is a time and place for my death, it's already known, written in the book and i cannot live my life in fear and i will live as long as god wants me to live so i don't allow threats. people have taken everything from me they could have taken from me and get my fries. i thrive because of god's protection but if something should happen to me, i don't believe anything will happen until my work is done and when my work isit done, it won't matr so the most important thing is to realize you're going to die. there for something that's going to make a difference for someone more the other part of the question? >> most dangerous institution in america and the democratic party. >> the democratic party has been

taken over by a radical french group because i was a democrat most of my life democrat were not always what they are today and for people who are democrats, you need to take your party back because what i see in washington and what i see around me, that's not the democratic party i grew up around and i knew and lived long enough to remember a bit of time democrats and republicans worked together for the good of the nation, they are not as polarized as they are right now the democrats and republicans should have a national interest and because of the lobbyist and many think it from various interests, they are not representing us, they represent themselves and i don't know what you do about congress. whether it's executive branch, the judicial branch or

legislative branch from a fate broken institutions schools have been taken over by critical race theory and not just critical race theorists, there are other theories with critical clear theories and feminist theories, dividing males against females, heterosexuals against homosexuals, blacks against lights and poor people against rich people, marxism and all about division. it doesn't have to be that way so i p encourage americans of goodwill to push back across political lines and religious lines, we don't havewo to live this way we can restore our nation but we have to get rid of our leaders and decide what is important to us. we have to reclaim the media. the media in every institution has been taken over. i didn't live 1984 is a favorite book. people need to read all will

1984 because we are living in a nightmare and it doesn't have to be that way. >> latest book called lock i for america, how critical race theory is running down the house. ♪♪ >> we can consult men to art collection fees. bookkeeper brings the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 comes from these television companies. ♪♪ ♪♪

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