march american history tv satellite on c-span2 and find the full schedule on your program guide or watch on time anytime at c-span.org. ♪♪ >> on this episode of book notes plus we met at work most as a historian, tour guide and author. his latest book is called the lost history of the capitol. bizarre, tragic and violent episodes around the u.s. capitol building from the founding of the federal city in 17902 contemporary times. among many accomplishments in his career, speech writer for george washer book -- >> c-span now mobile app where you get your podcast. >> next muscle tvs in-depth program with story and an activist, roxanne dunbar-ortiz

indigenous peoples history of the united states and recently published, not a nation of immigrants. >> roxanne dunbar-ortiz. were to start our conversation today with a quote from your most recent book, not a nation of immigrants. in that book you write the claims of the united states is a nation of immigrants is a benevolent version of u.s. nationalism. what you mean by that? >> in the past before that terminology arose, was a degradation of immigrants, hard processing, it still exists especially with chinese, the

first immigration law with the exclusion of the chinese, mainly about exclusion but the term, a nation of immigrants is actually very recent. it dates to 1958 invented by john f kennedy when he was senator and it seemed to me his purpose was in planning to run for president he had a difficult task because he is a child of immigrants, irish and catholic and every president up until thatsi time, his presidency had been either anglo or scotch,

irish and protestant so what he emphasizes in the book he published a nation of immigrants, he emphasizes those great qualities about the irish in particular but the terminology, i don't remember frankly when i was in graduate school in history in the 1960s, i don't remember the term having caught on yet, i think it was multiculturalism more in the 1970s, 80s and 0sby the 90s, it's in all of the textbooks, public schools and it becomes an accepted term so i see it as a post-world war ii postwar competition with the soviet union to create a

positive image what people around the world were seen on television or black people being bloodied and beaten in the south, dk segregation movement so this competition was not only in weapons and economic but also cultural and the soviet union and cuba, definitely publicizing negative qualities so nation of immigrants and immigration law that john f. kennedy did initiate, he wasn't alive when it finally passed in 1965 but it did open up immigration for the

first time to non-european immigration so there was this liberal pinch of course we also have fast developing white nationalism that opposes that mark does not want immigrants, people of color, pretty much a white republics is not uncontested. >> when we go back in history and if we went back to the 1700s or so, were there open borders at that time into the united states? >> there were no immigration laws but there was a great deal of suspicion of some immigrants, notrs anglo or scott or germans

that alexander g hamilton was absolutely paranoid about immigration during the french revolution and these revolutionaries what infiltrate the united states and create ideas so the sedition act during that time which hamilton was a major author of, there was great suspicionre, not english-speakig or german or scandinavian soon after but in the beginning was pretty limited and only males and at first, property owners

could be actual citizens, simple terms of citizenship. >> roxanne, throughout your historicalca views, you use the phrase settler colonial, what you mean by that? >> it's one kind of colonialism that started in the 15th century with the law of europe at the time, western europe, catholic europe, from the holy see, the vatican. it was a pronouncement and that law gave portugal, portugal wasn't really a state,

portuguese monarch the right to invade, occupy africa and enslave the people so that was the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade, with columbus in 1492 commissioned by the monarchs of what would become famed very soon, the year after 1492, 1493, they gave all of the western hemisphere to the spanish monarch to enslave all of the people there and to own all of the property, the notion

of discovery so doctrine of discovery is really what it became which is still the law in the united states and most of western europe, still the law even now today this mid- evil is inscribed throughout u.s. law with these decisions made in 1830 so colonialism must enter colonialism type of european colonialism that began in the time, it already existed, the british were well practiced because for centuries they colonized ireland and had been introduced, settler colonialism

to push out the irish, client they owned and to bring in anglo and settlers so this is how we get scott irish which my father's family is from and when they migrated to the united states, it's very seasoned settler colonialist. they established holster, it still exists today and contested territory still under the british empire so these things are not just -- they are developed over a couple of interest centuries and implemented and then brought to north america's and because of

the first landings of the puritans, before that, jamestown and especially jamestown which is always played down in u.s. history to favor the puritans and these mercenary jobs and the immediate taking of the land around jamestown and pushing out the people very violently and also found agrarian people, squash and beans, the triad of american agriculture before columbustr but another item,

tobacco which they used for additional purposes, medicinal purposes, they started selling and quickly became a prized commodity in western europe and everybody got addicted to it so it never had a low time, it only grew and grew so i think that was the formation of the british empire, with these qualities, could be appropriated for the nativeve people who already developed the land and already it was agricultural land. they had notes all over the continent, now the eastern seaboard and appropriated where

he existed and pushing the people out so this was in part possible because they already had the knowledge and mechanisms for doing that environment but it also developed as a program in itself, a type of colonialism. it was replicated later, it worked so well in north american colonies, it was applied in canada, british holdings in canada andnd later in new zealad aand australia so these are the prototypes that were colonialism. later the spanish in 1700 saw the success instead of looting and mining, that agriculture was

successful in north america so in the newme colonies conquest n argentina, chile or like and settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing, genocidal. >> you tell a story about each andd asking your students, what did the united states look like geographically during the colonial period and they include all of the united states.

>> imperialism, you asked to draw what was initially the colonies, the first state in the united states was developed, stopped a quick math about the united states look like and they do all that whole aspect i got it from them immediately and rethink it because it's the subconscious destiny met with only be but of course it wasn't always to be. it took more than 100 years of

unrelenting warfare to march across thehe continent and invasion of mexico in that time so far continent was not filled out until 1890, sort of sauce marker of the massacre in 1890 as the moment in which all people were were really concentration camps guarded by army bases that later became this so this is something that can simply be mapped but i don't think educators are telling students this or showing that map but it's so pervasive in the

national consciousness people in the united states think see it as always having been that way. they immediately knew they made a mistake but it's a way of teaching, i hung heard that as a child, i'm sure the continental united states always what it was beth when in your life did you start questioning the history? >> i was not an early boomer and that respect. i grew up in rural oklahoma, not exactly seven packages, not exactly where you might be

exposed to anything near the ideas i have now but i think education is so important, higher education because it's when you possibly might bump into some knowledge and you usually do and that's why many people, white nationalists and evangelicals where i come from, discourage higher education because of that, they know they are likely to lose that kid to knowledge so my first year of university was at the year of university of oklahoma.

it was a period of desegregation, my last year of high school i went in the city, public high school and it happened to be the first high school, the first school in oklahoma to be integrated, 25 out of 1500 students, 20, 25 black students were brought from the back high school central high which was not nearly as good a school, it was called the dunbar school, it was better educationally, the period of integration so this was 1956, a couple of years after the

supreme court decision to take a look at schools so for the first time, i was in communities with black people who are being abused every day by people slamming their lockers, breaking into their lockers, fistfights, young black students had been trained not to react, not to fight back. they were dignified and it amazed me just watching. there was no way to avoid what happened in the walls and the cafeterias. it was a trade school so we had jobs. i was there the full day but i

would observe these things and i was appalled but something in my bringing maybe as a southern baptist or my family, my grandfather had been a member of the socialist party in oklahoma and my dad was proud of his dad so i would hear stories in my grandfather was fighting against the ku klux klan so i became quickly antiracist and i am grateful for that experience because i'm not sure i would have had that experience and it led me then to other things. the university of oklahoma, i met, fell in love and married a youngov man was an architecture

student and his family were liberal and trade unionists and father was the same person who integrated the carpenters union in oklahoma so it was a completely different setting, i lived there five years. four years before we moved to california. they had big farmland obviously was southern cheyenne reservation at one time but i didn't question any of that. it took quite a while, graduate school, i think it was because i

study latin americannk history, graduate school that i came to understand u.s. imperialism in the u.s. history classes, i did my dissertation, i had to do both, they never talk about imperialism, they call it manifest destiny so i learned about the invasion of mexico which i had little knowledge of before and i think that led me on the path in the direction of wanting to understand this further and then also a young professor of african-american studies, he was japanese and

they volunteered to be his teaching assistants i learned a great deal from him and his idea of ethics studies so i got into all that so it was gradual but really outside of the university, i was asked to be an expert witness in a sovereignty case in 1973 and i had to do a lot of studying because i had really done the poorest, the exn the 1868, i know about it

because the american indian movement was active but i didn't feel i qualified as an expert witness and i tried to refuse but a lead lawyer said you're probably a quick study and handed me documents and books so i learned pretty fast. that experience in lincoln nebraska, all of these people from pine ridge and the reservation came down and made an encampment along the missouri river and it was an extraordinary landing experience listening to the oral history of that treaty and learning, not

just there but "afterwards"," everywhere this strong oral history, know the history of the united states like no one else knows it from the view of their experience so the book indigenous peoples history, i tried to replicate that, everything i had learned through oral history and the old people are not always accurate they tip you off where you should go to look and fill it out and fax certainly the case so that's been certifying my recess search process and 74. >> before we leave, not a nation of immigrants and a look at some

other books, i want to finish our discussion with this book, it's a james baldwin quote younc included in the conclusion, i love america more than any other country in the world and exactly for this reason, i insist upon the right to criticize her. is that your sentiment as well? ... any u.s. person who criticizes the united states, just tell the truth about u.s. history has to swear their loyalty to the united states, and makes no sense to

me, i do not love the united states, i don't know what that means, i love human beings, individuals but i say i love certain foods or something but to love and nation states, i don't understand >> and the kinds of division that we have right now in this society so who is the greatest patriot? i was really criticizing because i don't know i cannot read his mind but everything else he wrote it is hard to think that love is the first thing that would come to mind

in his sentiments about the united states from his experience and i have nowhere near any kind of experience like that but at least as historians we have to tell the truth and i think we should be objective and should not write the parlor history of the medieval ages but historians just need to tell the truth they have no limitations or apologies but then when they get to their own country i guess that is true of other national historians they can be pretty objective about the

british empire maybe the french are more likely than the united states but so i was actually criticizing but i just felt bad why does he have to say that? it is like an apology to say have the right because i love the united states but i have a duty. i don't know about the right that i have the duty as a historian to tell the truth. host: your 2014 book of indigenous peoples history of the united states, one the 2015 american book award and in that book you look at the standard or commonplace historical era of the division it is the colonial era the revolutionary war the jacksonian period reconstruction industrial revolution in the gilded age

, imperialism and progressivism, world war i, depression, new deal, world war ii, cold war, and vietnam how did you rewrite those? are those fair decisions for studying history? >> in that book i debated with myself talking with other colleagues about how to reorder the chronology of the united states that would be more accurate. to take awaywa the framework within the framework while

inside of it for instance. because most historians, there is some changes now that up until i think things started to change a little bit after 9/11 with the bush administration and they said maybe the united states is the imperialist. that normally the date 1898 overseas invasion of the philippines taking hawaii with the pacific islanders. and to occupy them for 40 years. that the united states was

founded nothing really changed in terms of goals. and also the founding fathers the goals to get to the pacific. but the northwest ordinance had maps in it and plans so they had lines drawn.

so they were going to be separate sovereigns in massachusetts of a sovereign state. so they have massachusetts across the continent to the pacific and with its own territory and of course the spanish were holding all of that territory so that was the first thing to get rid of the spanish and then to go into immediately the northwest not to the pacific but the first

thing they plan to conquer was the ohio valley. and i think this was the main reason for the british proclamation of 1863 that forbade the british settlers going over the appellation and ohio valley. and others that were squatting on need of people's land. but even george washington made a fortune. and he was going in with his pollution one —- militia as a child i always wondered why with this big house plantation he was a surveyor.

he was working class i cannot put it together but of course he led his militia to map the unseeded lands and made a fortune off of selling these deeds and he wasn't the only one. they were holding these deeds that werein no good unless they could actually claim the land and make it good and make the property. and make the proper deed. this has been a major cause in the declaration. and then to protect the savages it's all about the

proclamation about the barrier that was put so not only forbade anyone going in there to go and bring people back but they all had an investment or most of them had an investment to take that land that is called imperialism.

and then to change the argument. host:>> your book readings to mind the people's history of the united states is that a fair comparison. out in 1980 the book i adopted it in my introductory history class at my university immediately. and it was such a gift for students to have a readable almost poetic in places so i loved it and i got to know and his other books.

it is such a marker for change in the teaching of us history. not only precolonial for the native people that were there but then to start with genocide so for the neediest students. it was unprecedented you have a book that started in that

way. so what happened with the civil war and then they rounded up the navajo people that they could in march from the long walk where half of them died in a concentration camp and then to protect the scandinavian settlers and then forcibly to force the farmers

out so that they intervened with the largest mass hanging in us history during the civil war. and it's under the dakota people and the massacre that took place in the west 394 shoshone people massacred and of course that genocidal act against the northern cheyenne in colorado so these don't appear in the civil war section and it also doesn't

appear but he does get back to the army in the west. it cuts off the whole 20th century so with that red power movement when they would say to me at a how to write that but it's still a very wonderful book in and of

itself. but i think everyone should read. my indigenous peoples history is also a young adult version now. host: thank you for joining us on booktv this is our in-depth program where we have one author on to talk about his or her body of work this month historian author and activist roxanne dunbar ortiz. started to publish in 1987 red dirt was her first outlaw women came out 2001 and indigenous peoples history of the united states came out in 2014 which won the american book award in 2015 all the

real indians died off loaded a disarming history of the second amendment 2018 and the most recent which we have discussed, not a nation of immigrants and the history of erasure and exclusion just came out this year. we want youou to participate in this conversation.

you say your first book is read to her growing up? >> it used to be a very pejorative term with the refugees during the depression and came to california it was the flow word but it was a fighting word in oklahoma none

of my family migrated ate that time. my father always said only the wealthy farmers could migrate because they had cars and trucks didn't and didn't only end but he was hurt by it then not at all like in california he is a californian decibel family that i think that really changed so i felt very free to use the term oki so

that is the origin of it it is a point of pride. host: any authors notes of indigenous people, you write to my mother was part indian, most likely cherokee born in joplin missouri and then you write other things and then you include the paragraph or conclude by saying my mother was ashamed of being part indian she died of alcoholism. >> ied think i have three thought that since i published it. i think it's really important that native identity be identified with the tribe.

because it is not a race. there's no such thing as an indian. there are more than 300 different native nations and communities. so i never had ties with anything. and pretty certain that probably my mother was not cherokee. there is no tracing it. so i think when i made that assessment at the time but i very much doubt that and i certainly wouldn't call myself cherokee. so my mother did die of alcoholism she was not alcoholic during my childhood but she had a very hard life

and her mother died while she was for and shifted around she had eight brothers and sisters and shifted around to the families and then within the school that was more like a juvenile place. she was 15 when she met my dad who was a cowboy. literally working on a ranch in the northeast and then came back to the hometown where i was raised in both sides of his family had settled into piedmont oklahoma, central oklahoma.

men mother was 15 and my father was 17. only kids that she had been through a lot. she was a great mother to all of us. i was the youngest i was sickly and asthmatic. but she did start drinking. her father was irish and was an alcoholic. she loved her father i never knew him but my older brothers and sisters adored him but it can be very generational. but i thinkhe she actually got

it from her irish father from the alcoholism. host: professor, let's hear from some of our viewers. carl from washington dc. please go ahead. >>caller: thank you professor for your enlightening work. with that critical race theory with that true history of america to be denied that white kids are being so hurt by the critical race theory but they had no problem teaching about little black sambo or scalping people or native americans powwow so that they don't know how they tried to hide the racial

massacre and in the native american massacred. host: we got the idea. professorea? >> a very good question. i never thought i would like to see the day that legislatures including my homee state of oklahoma are making laws forbidding the teaching of critical race there he like it was being taught in the first place. but also the one in oklahoma reads that anything that would criticize white people but that's not critical white one —- race theory is it's not a critique at all. it is a critique of the structures of racism. and this is what they fear.

they know better. they know it is structural as is all of my historical work. no attack on individuals it is structural in society people are governed something that links people together that you are founded as a white republic and that everything

you have a 200 years of history.be and then to become a white republic of constitution written with that embedded in it. and taking man from the native people and selling land and that with theci cotton kingdom that was greater than all other assets combined so those

are facts that's not just criticizing any single living person. it or any living persons at the time. it is that structure that we inherited have to deal with that is problematic and we see that going on right now with the filibuster electoral college all of these in written into the constitution without voting power that was by state, two senators per state no matter the population so here i am in california and

we have the same number of senators that was purposeful because they were less populated so they do have so this is what critical race theory does is take that apart and explain it that i don't want to know the truth and ignore it i have to learn more about that nobody makes you believe in something but it is the truth there really are things that are simply facts and then to deny them.

that doesn't mean those are not facts. >> . >> . >> in about the mexican american war wasn't abraham lincoln against the war when he was in congress they convinced him to go along because of america to come down south from canada? and then to pay for the union army. so basically say the mexican american war. and then i have two chapters

about the border since the 20th century that the historical chapter that they wanted to get to the pacific and they started to send spies to spanish territory accidentally getting arrested in colorado and then being taken on the way to mexico city they were mapmakers technically and they made maps along the way the mexican revolution a couple years later and then became

independent 1821. slavers from missouri started to invade and take land in texas, very rich land for cotton. so that was 1821 and 1822. so they first took texas and then it was independent and was no longer. the spanish were gone and the united states had no role mexicans had a radical revolution that they were pretty well hijacked by the elite that remained a country

that completely changed the structure of the land but i don't think from my studies the literature in mexico is very poor it is the us account and that the books that have been written are all kinds of different things who was for it or against it where the transcendentalist it was really a racial argument they didn't want all of these brown people of citizens they did not want more indians so i

think the level of the argument had nothing to do with all that strategic staff of what would happen into the future they didn't know there was gold in california. so the actual arguments that i think all of the northerners who were becoming abolitionists they wanted to abolish slavery and they did not know what to do with the friedman and they made arguments about that and how to ship them back to africa so it wasn't except for a few that were absolutely dedicated

and it was totally equal. and was unique in that respect and we should honor him as the arbiter or the avatar of starting the civil war. and then strategically and they wanted that territory. and with those moving in that it could be that it would reinforce power. the seven states were a confederacy when it formed actually to take over all of central america and the caribbean.

but in the west they often were fighting and i integrated that each had the armies fighting. the invasion of mexico i think what i discussed of it in the new book that it is border that is artificial and it cuts through and those that straddle the border and cannot easily communicate withth each other. it is an artificial landmark

that was taken by violence by military violence. a treaty of annexation that was done with a good as mexico city was under occupation with texas rangers running wild killing people. burning houses. it was a violent occupation and that gun to the head to sign the treaty. i also have a degree in international human rights law and humanitarian law. that is an illegal treaty. and would not suffer from that

the united states would not show up but to be one by default is to reopen negotiations about thebo border to do something about it. it's not going to get any better it is a contested border and it is a violent border and most people in the united states are totally unaware of the history of how it came to be. host: thisde is our in-depth program. one author his or her body of work our author is roxanne dunbar ortiz and we will continue our conversation in just abo moment. and rachel augustine who spoke about the global impact of that "me too" movement. >> for me, i had been >> for me either working on the 2016 campaign till about the dream here in the united

states and was really surprised in the aftermath of that election to see the wave of women's activism not only here in the united states but around the world if you think back to the 2017 women's march on every continent and organize trends nationally and only ten weeks with the rise of activism with the counselor formulation and foreign-policy began to track the rise of activism. we started to see not only an increase and women raising their voices and with the #metoo movement to go global october 2017 and then to an incredible rise of women's political diversification in a broad range of countries from afghanistan to to what that

would surprise you and then in incredible ways and then at the council but then to began trading stories that these were not being told in the american media and then agreeing to join together to take the journey around the world. vogelstein and at book tv.org.

host: we are back live with roxanne dunbar-ortiz whose most recent book is "not 'a nation of immigran host: we are back live with roxanne dunbar ortiz. now back to your phone calls. let's hear from barbara from massachusetts. please go ahead. >>caller: hello peter. hello doctor dunbar ortiz. i come from this phone call from the documentary on hbo exterminate all the brutes about the history of your eccentric colonialism and genocide. doctor ortiz book is sitting in my lap of the indigenous people taken out of the library on martha's vineyard.

were the descendents go to school with myw grandchildren. so if you go to amazon.com they are selling all three of the books of the historical backstop for this extraordinary documentary you are listening to the founder so i hope everyone after watching the documentary will enjoy that conversation which is taking off. please tell us how you got involved and finally this is a documentary of a decade not 2021. t and really is here to revolutionize the historical

record. host: thank you. what is exterminate all the brutes? >> . >> and as described it is a paradigm shift of anything that's ever been on television. especially broad television, hbo. one of my favorite filmmakers. i did not know him. i have never met him. i never expected in my lifetime to meet my favorite filmmaker. and then i get a call from him. and he told me about this

minute something about his production company but i didn't know that they had optioned the book for a film. and i thought some small's film company in the idea that he wanted to use my book of the great historian. and thehe book of silencing the past and then to exterminate all the brutes is the name c

that which compares the genocide of colonialism as the precursor in southern africa to the holocaust. purity had the two books he was working with adapting and then he discovered my book and just before he came out in the french addition based in paris with the english version. and i'm very excited but i also want to work with you because the other two authors passed away. and asked me to work on the script with him so i did that for the next couple of years. that is what i have been doing. and it has been a fantastic

experience and then the april launch, i had seen in various phases and i had seen the final, but actually stillit seeing it and to know that millions of people were watching all over the world was so exciting. because it is about colonial genocide and militarism that focuses on the united states and the congo and i agree the curriculum is being developed around it we have a book plan or a book of essays that that take other situations that

should come outd sometime next year. the project goes on and as a caller said it's not just a 2021 project but it is going to be more important ten or 20 years from now as a guide to how colonial genocide is produced the situation in the role and how it exist today. host: lakeside california good afternoon. >>caller: good afternoon fascinating the discussion about the desire as barbaric with the northwest ordinance so i'm definitely looking for that but having a headline

overnightan with a middle-class african-american family had some property in redondo beach or manhattan beach which is a suburb of los angeles and they were just awarded the land back that they lost mimicking the oklahoma situation in the 1920s g and they just got their property back yesterday. have you heard about that or had any comments related to that westward expansion? host: are you familiar with that story? >> yes. i am in san francisco. and i read the l.a. times. the first thought was this is the tip of the iceberg if that happened to one family like that in california there are many cases.

i others come forward to make their claims and make it known. i don't know with generations past some living people now may not even know what happened to their forebears but i think we will hear more about this kind of thing of land being taken not only from native people but also black people that it was a horrible timere to flag the communities with foreclosures that they could not handle and there were great losses. and people still suffering.

>> this is an honor to speak with you i am unfamiliar with your work but i plan to read as many as i can. but taking a road trip to south texas and interviewed a lot of the people and the families that have been there for generations. and they were so kind to say that we can cross the border the border crossed us and they explained that there is only the human race that to be hispanic ornd indigenous is

cultural and ethnicity and that we might enjoy hearing with those people have to say. i have not read your book on outlaw women but i am trying to find my ancestor cherokee ancestors so i am curious if in your research if you know anything about the all-star and i am wondering if my ancestors hung out with them? i know other researchers and historians are also looking.

host: thank you very much we should point out out loud woman is mostly about our guest and her journey and i want to read a quotation from the book that he for dan said scruffy feminists like me were giving the movement a bad name. i told daddy that i thought she feared losing her celebrity leadership position to womenct who are committed to collective action with no leaders and that she wanted no more than two put a few women into political office and is heads of corporation. she called meed and anarchist. and that conversation take place? >> it was in the green room before we went on a tv show together. she was a piece of work. i respect her more now now that i more mature myself as

we did with younger women very radical and liberal. she was not happy with it. that she was a good person. that back to the texas border , i actually saw that program myself this morning. i do get up early even in california. it was important. i hope that is repeated with the mexican people on this side of the border in texas to

say that the border crossed them that they did not cross the border and it should be open. i agree with that. as far as the all-star that is interesting because that is a book that was shelved i was working on when i was asked to write in indigenous peoples history of the united states. and since then i have written three other books and i still have not gotten back to that book but i i grew up in oklahom. many people especially in the east never heard of thehe all-star but they heard of jesse james and she ran with the jesse james gang and was much younger but the younger brothers and list movies they

were all confederate gorillas in missouri they run a can side of the confederacy and slaveowners. so once i learned that that i learned that it was like the house of cards but then they became bandits afterwords so i have a whole chapter on this in my book loaded if anyone is interested of the confederate gorillas of great hebrew on —- heroes but small children like me but i hope to get back to

writing that but the cherokee connection of the all-star daughter got pregnant by a cherokee boy but sent her to a place to place unlimited did this in those days that she gave birth and then that child was taken from her and adopted out because the girl was only 15 years old. but also it could have been prejudice that's the only native connection that i know from the all-star. host: from maine, please go ahead with your question or comment. >> yes. this is a wonderful program i wish i could take your classes.

i just finished killers of the killer moon and how they were robbed and then white people could get the rights to their oil with the underground reservation so having grown up in oklahoma you must have heard about that? and with that personal experience has been? >> thank you for the question. that was a horrible situation. i haven't read that book but i think it's very accurate from

what the review said and it's important tors understand that horrible corruption and birderoi with the oil and gas in the violence at the base of that development in oklahoma even in a fairly small state like oklahoma even if it is 96 counties in a small state, i grew up in canadian county slightly northwest and the countyhi seat, this is the land of the planes people land riker up they are still there but it was allotted in the late 19th century with the tribal headquarters and with

the southern cheyenne in the area that i grew up i never even went to tulsa and didn't even know that it existed. it's very provincial in oklahoma by sections of the state. central, southeast, southwest northwest and northeast and people don't get much out of their counties from several counties away so i went to tulsa for the first time since i moved to california i finally visited it seems like a much more beautiful city settled by entrepreneurs so it

is a very different place and where i grew up it is more southern and southern baptist to be more like the south so it gets out into the planes so i didn't know anything or have any knowledge only what i have read and i have several osage friends and when they were writing their constitution i follow closely because i haven't osage friend who was involved in writing it. but that is very recent so i cannot help you with any lower. host: from the pine ridge indian reservation you are on

with roxanne dunbar ortiz. >> >>caller: good morning. i just wanted to thank you for your books. yesterday on the banks of the missouri river overlooking a 52-foot steel image of a lakota woman they celebrated by dedicating it to remind our women that they are powerful and awesome and the backbone of our nation. is 52-foot image is an archetype of all indian women to learn more about their culture in the c ceremony and the language.

but most importantly, roxanne, it is the image that we will use to try to teach the white people and remind them that wasn't long ago or four centuries ago there ancestors came to america to look for a better life. we have so much teachings and we have to share with our non- indigenous relatives who live on our land and to remind them that they too came from somewheree and that we are the owners of this great land that we are sharing. so roxanne i'm just scared on —- excited about this and that you can help to promote the archetype so we can engage other native indigenous women to be proud of who they are. host: thank you for calling.

>> thank you. i did know about the ceremony with facebook and this is very exciting and wish i could've been there to experience it. there is a lot of news now about missing and murdered native women that is catastrophic colonial issue. and is still under colonial control. and then not have criminal investigations internally. so green light flashing on the sides the borders of reservations like free sex

here rape any woman that you want come onto the reservation. and as a congressperson took this up as a major issue of native women only now is it publicized because because of the murdered young woman from florida and people started to say what about the black woman and the native women so thank you for your lifelong work and for those that is pretty amazing. host: we seem in the middle of

pop-culture native renaissance. and then helping states of vaccinations is that overstating it or not? >> yes. it is very exciting. i see the groundwork that has been set for that for decades building up. it is the hard work of native people. environmental activism and as they have taken and professorial positions in universities and have a presence there and stick out

peoplele are learning just like the standing rock standoff and appraising it has been going on for six months even before it is publicized and also the campaign with the washington teams and every level around the country and the place names are big in the news in california with the renaming of squad valley in lake tahoe.

and there are hundreds of towns that use the word squad. one thing about the native movement so there's something that can be done so you can start a discussion the basketball team is called t the indians. is that appropriate? so thatt is the power of it it is persistent work and also people waking up the black lives matter movement with one of the preeminent native organizations and what you saw

last summer those statues coming down with the confederates and others you also saw columbus coming down and with that new rainbow coalition and with white appellation and migrants and then it has to be all people working at the grassroots level because at the national level of politics at multicultural and social change to change the politics. host: in her book all the real indians already died off 2016. our author looks at the minutes of the indigenous

population. such as the us did not have a policy of genocide against native americans. sports mascots honor native americans. most indians are on government welfare. indians are rich because they have casinos and indians are savage and warlike. any comments about some of those minutes quick. >> yes. my co-author dana whitaker it is a series of 21 this so there are several books about unions they are bankrupting us and other myths and others about immigrants they are taking our jobs. so it is very very hard.

we had to whittle that down. when we got to 100 we better start to whittle that down we could have gone on because there is probably no one else in the united states and native people. don't just say i'm ignorant and i need to learn something they think they already know things because there are so many that's in a believe they are true. so that the north american content a very sparsely populated byy the roaming bands of people. and instead so the eastern

part of what is now the united states with those original sides of agrarian civilization and the euphrates, and all at the same time coming to wilderness there was no wilderness and they had manicured for us they work with the land but also adapted the land to them in ecological ways that we have to learn again if they are going to

survivehe so the positive myth of the ecological perfect spiritual person and a on the other side is a savage. but neither are what any human beinger is. and there is some language that is called indian so the myth that we finally came up with and those that that are reading the book will when it's when they say that's what i thought. that's not true?

so i did mention the renaming of squad there is a lot of letters to the editor when they name squad valley that it was a complementary term that they like to be called squad. so it was that eventually native peopleat like and don't like. and thenou to say i have no problem with that. so it seems only with native people that the myth is very hard and then to be overcome with truth because there is so many of them and they are jumbled together. so it makes a person feel, i had to tell students when i

was teaching native american history that that they should not feel guilty about anything. there is no reason why they would have learned anything i would've been teaching them beforese because the current textbook was a curriculum. but now they can learn. to get over the large numbers of people that the wonderful thing about mass movements that i learned to being a part of one in the antiwar movement in the sixties but you learn very fast not necessarily books but speeches and listening to people, it is an extraordinary moment.

we had that last year. they don't always last. it makes a very important for advancing. what we are seeing is the backlash of the critical race theory and is trying to reverse what peopleer learned last year. and that people want to learn more. host: we have 15 minutes left with our guest. >> yes. professor, my question is a subject that ion haven't heard discussed yet this morning during the second world war i don't know if you call it the

intern mentor some sort of restriction with the japanese population on the west coast but then there is a fear of invasion from japan have you run across this in your studies or have you done any writing on it? >> yes. there is a whole chapter in my new book but fundamentally since we in the united states usually cannot tell one east asian w from another, it spreads to discrimination japanese and

southeast asians. but it goes way back. the japanese farmer started to come in the late 19th century income to in the fields and then there were people that need to sand remittance bank onn —- back but the japanese, i do live in san francisco and with the detail of the internment and i taught ethnic studies and my colleague, a chinese-american

and is developing angel islands where asians were incarcerated before they could be let in or be deported. but the japanese americans they were citizens of the united states they were truck farmers. and 90 percent came from japanese farms so almost all of the vegetables and fruits raised in california at that time t they are called truck

farmers because they truck them into the city. but it was period racism. no getting around it. i document in the book. that it cannot be trusted asians cannot be trusted they always expanded to the asians. that they live. so not reporting the fascist government with the gender line. so just to be safe we need to lock him up. but then they also took their property. they had a reparations only

for the people that directly experienced it and most of them werewa already passed away by the time it was done. it hasn't been properly dealt with yet one that was mostly in desert regions in idaho and new mexico and it was a horrible experience. there was barbed wire and armed soldiers just like a prison. and they were watched it was a horrible period of time and

they think it's very important. it reminded people native people of their own incarceration. that was. really the playbook the government was using that was only 50 years before. they were already citizens and spoke english. but they tried to assimilate them iny a way that change what they were teaching of patriotism a reeducation camp so it was traumatic. host: before we run out of time we always ask our authors to share some of their

favorite books and what they are reading now here is on her list. now some of these authors appear in your writing so what is his role? >> i have long been a great

admirer as a professor at columbia university from uganda. and has published many books that everyone should read. and not understanding what is happening in the north and in the south but working on colonialism a decade ago and then as a native settler. and has asked me to write the book it was on the lawn a panel discussing the book. and we became friends. we have not met in person. [laughter] and in his book and then it is

one of the references. it is very unusual to deal with. so thereth is a breakthrough because he is african. and it brings that to a much larger audience than before but also deals with south africa. ando palestine. so itt is an important book. host: also some other books professor is reading.

west palm beach florida thank you for holding, william. >>caller:in thank you. could you recommend a book that describes northern the louisiana? and if you have time to comment is that a factor for the independence? >> repeat the last part. >>caller: britain freed the slaves before the states did we see the writing on the wall and to influence our succession from britain?

>> thank you for that question. i'm sorry i don't know any sources for northern louisiana but i will look them up. host: in a general sense where would you recommend people go if they want to learn about the w specific areas? is there a library or a site that is one of your go to sites? >> i think the history of northern louisiana but i did want to respond with the possibility not just and in the trans-atlantic slave trade but to have a huge anti- slavery movement.

and it definitely made the slavers in the colonies very nervous. and i do believe that i gave what i thought was the main reason was the proclamation that limited expansion. but they had worn out the land of the nonfood crops. and then to stay wealthy and to build the wealth of the british empire. they want to move into that which land of the southeast where the tribes a great agricultural to take the land. that's the main reason that

the other reason that definitely the fear of ending slavery was predominant. not so afraid that the monarchy would do it but because that would win out and word just destroy the colonies. because remember in the north, but in new york they were involved in the slave trade. most of the slave trade was in the shipping of rhode island

and the ports on the atlantic coast in the northeast. everyone was compromised by slavery and had an interest in continuing it. so definitely, i do think that keeping power in the southern states counted for the ownership of slaves of two thirds rather than one in two thirds voting capacity with the electoral college that was formed. this is what word protect to the southern states. host: now we have to leave it there weck are out of time. very quickly roxanne dunbar ortiz.z.

all the real indians died off. loading a disarming history of the second amendment and the most recent book not a nation of immigrants. white supremacy and the history of erasure and exclusion. thank you for being our guest on booktv. >> thank you, peter. . . . . ♪♪

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