the last survivor of the atlantic slave trade publishing 2018. the oldest imprint by major publishing house devoted to the african-american market. 10:00 p.m. eastern on "afterwards", doctor pol off it, head of the children's author of infectious disease division and vaccine education center talks about his book, you bet your life, blood transfusions to mass vaccination, long frisky history of medical innovation interviewed by doctor emily gurley epidemiologist at johns hopkins university. pocketbook tv every sunday she's going to find a full schedule on your program guide watch online anytime booktv.org. ♪♪ >> next, these monthly intervals in-depth program.

carol swain, her books include we the people, 1776 report and recently published black eye for america. >> author carol swain, was the 1770s commission and why did you become the vice chair? >> why did i become vice chair? because i accepted it and i was asked in december of 2020 and by then, of course the election was over and i was told by a number of people not to take that tsition. i took it because i believed in the purpose of the commission, i think it's important for young people to know about america's history, it's true history so i made the decision to serve and i'm proud of the work we did in a short period of time but

someone looking at the objective circumstances, it didn't make at lot of sense to them to take it because we knew most likely our commission would be abolished so i did it for the good of the nation. >> what was the purpose of the commission? >> for one thing, to 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence will be in 2025 so we work to come up with a plan or method to study the constitution and encourage schools to re- embrace america's history and it was to be a bipartisan commission, i think it was, not all conservatives but it was put together after the 2020 election so the people who chose to serve for the people who r cared about purpose

and mission. that's why i served and it wasnl the only appointment i received the trump administration and something i believed in, i don't do things i don't believe in. i can also tell you i've had three political appointments, to from president bush and one isse in albano because he reappointed me to the tennessee u.s. civil rights committee commissioned so i've had three political appointments for presidents in my life. >> in the 1776 report that came out following the commission, it's written in the book, you write deliberately discuss destructive scholarship, bonds that unite all america.

>> okay? >> what was that deliberately destructive scholarship you are referring to their? >> before i was part of the 1770s! i was part of 1776 unite, bob fortson. i think the emphasis probably behind for 1776 commission as well as 17706 unite was the scenee 19 curriculum by the new york times that was adopted by 4500 and we were very concerned about the historical inaccuracies in the report and how it tainted america as a nation that was racist from the inception and originally the

nation at 1619 rather than 1776 so we were concerned about our children, making sure young people understood american history and the importance of the declaration of independence. we all know founders were imperfect, the people who found the nation because all humans are perfect but when you look at the document, when you read the document, it serves the heart and emotions of many people and our declaration -- excuse me, i'm sorry. i look constitution when you read the documents, they are part of the founding documents of our nation so we were united on the importance of people understanding the declaration of independence and for me the declaration of independence, the

constitution is important and other things that relate to our nation's history including judeo-christian roots people need to know and understand. >> you reference the 1619 project, nicole hannah jones is the founder of fat. here's a little of her describing that. >> we argue with the project 1619 is our true founding year end black americans, as much as these men set in monument around the capitol city, the true founding fathers, that is our legacy and heritage. we finally hope in this year, the 1619 project will tell the truth we are as a nation and who we can be. doing so. hiding from our sin but confront them and work to make them

right. >> what is your reaction to what nicole hannah jones had to say? >> 1619 was the date, the year when the first african-american came to america as indigenous and initially probably the first 20 or 25 years, i don't have the exact date, i roughly know the date but lacks served with white servants, they w were freed. many of them became professionals, they became the backbone or free blacks in america and if you've been to martha's vineyard, he would run across -- i don't know if you're black or white but if you're black, you couldan be one of thm and would probably tell you they are the descendents free blacks so the free flax for people who were descendents of indigenous servants and up until i believe

1661, if a slave converted to's christianity, they were set free so 1619, four. thomas there was indigenous servitude where people released, some were indigent servants, they got slaves themselves and how people in bondage themselves and there was a. when slavery, out of greed was made permanent but if a person converted to christianity, they were set free. that's part of our nation'ss history. the other part anna nicole johnson the 16th 19 project ignored is the fact that there were always white people who were abolitionists, there were rights to set up across the south educate lacks and

historically black colleges were set up and funded by whites. america's true history is people working together we've made mistakes in this country but one thing about america is because a of our declaration of independence and constitution judeo-christian roots, we work very hard to correct those mistakes. that's the part of the american salary in white america became the envy of the world. >> in your latest book, the bestseller now, black eye for america, how critical race theory is burning down the house, right vertical race theory is speaking a new religion, what do you mean by that? >> critical race theory first of all, it is a theory permeating every institution in america and

the people pushing that theory, they argue, as you know, pretty much that america, i won't talk about the world, there are other critical theory marxist roots, but all whites are oppressors once they have racism in their dna, they are born with property inheritance based on their skin color and they have to consciously become antiracist by renouncing racism and there are lots of things about it people are supposed to confess their sins like a religion, they are supposed to constantly repeat

their sins but there's no redemption like the christian religion, there is redemption. if you confess your sins one time, it not a constant confession of sin. it argues racism is permanent, minorities are permanent victims and it's something the people pushing it forward strongly believe in it but what i argue in the book, it's racist, un-american, it runs counter to civil rights laws and constitution and is best civil rights issue of our day. i think anyone who understands the law, understands wrong to demean, shame and fully people because of the color of their skin. it doesn't matter whether they are white, t black or asian, its wrong to demean and fully people because of the color of the skin and not all white people -- not

all white people are similarly situated and not all black people are disadvantaged. it cripples our children whether we talk about white children are black children, they are crippled by critical race theory and its top and pushed across america. unfortunately, we will find it in secular schools as well as religious schools and it has become like a religion and something people need to understand fully and it's one reason i wrote that book but i wanted americans to understand what critical theory is, when it came from, how it impacts our society and how we fight back against it. i think it's very important and americans seek solutions and they are uniting across racial, ethnic and political lines,

uniting against critical race theory because they know it is morally wrong. >> is there conflict in your view between vertical race wetheory and judeo-christian heritage of the united states? >> yes, very much so because i think all racism is seen as the bible talks about it and i'm speaking to someone who is a devout christian and it is a sin problem. i also think we follow the golden rule and you want to others as we would have them do unto us that would go along way solving the racial and ethnic problems so i think we have a sin problem in america that's racism, i also believe black, white as well as ancient, any racial or ethnic groups can be racist, it's not something on

the right people can be. ndi understand what the marxists argue critical race theorists argue but they are wrong any group can be racist. >> i want to go to your 2011 book, we the people, a call to reclaim america's faith and promise.te in that book, he right people find surprising that i take offense when i hear national leaders in their speeches with "god bless america". why do you take offense to that? >> before we go any further, i feel like i'm sitting on a hot seat, i thought we were going to have a pleasant to our check. i take offense because there's nothing about america right now i feel god click because we have strayed so far from ourre judeo-christian roots when it comes to how week treat one another and when it comes to biblical principles and if you look at the founding of america

and the 13 colonies, all of them were focused on christian roots and up until the 1940s, it was very clear if this was a country that had values and principles, even the bible was used in some schools to teach children how to read as well as principles and values how to treat one another so we've strayed far from that. when you have a nation where abortion and especially the black community were black women, getting more than 37% of their abortion, cities like new york and probably washington d.c. and others more black babies have been aborted then born alive and when you see the

scientific experiment where they create new creatures using human sperm and mixing it with animals, dna to create new living creatures, these are things that would be abominations to the god of the judeo-christian bible self i don't see a a lot god would bles about america today because it's a nation turns its back on him and as i read the bible, you asked me what have impacted me, that was supposed to be part of our conversation, i said the king james bible. i do read the bible on a regular basis and when i think about god's judgment of nations, i believe the united states is god's judgment and he may very well use a nation that hates us, we could name a lot of nations that hate america including many

of us seem to hate our own country but it would not surprise me if america did not fall into the hands of another nation so i don't believe america will stand as america because it's being destroyed from within without its being destroyed by its own people. >> we always ask our in-depth guests what they are reading and some of their favorite books. carol listed the king james bible. victor franks man searching, currently reading clockwise, social justice movement and evangelicalism looming catastrophe. what is that book about parks. >> is a sovereign baptist and i

happen to be southern baptists as well. he's writing about how critical race theory has impacted the baptist church and baptists have been one of the most -- largest and conservative protestant groups in america. in 2019, they passed a resolution the southern baptist convention triggers critical race theory and intersection audi as analytical tools and understanding race in america so a lot about his book, i'm not finished reading it but talking about critical race theory, what it is, it's marxist roots but also how it impacted the baptist denomination, i would not be surprised at some time in the future if baptists didn't split the way other denominations have. >> why are you in nashville?

[laughter] >> that's a good question because as a tenured professor at princeton and i end up in nashville so a lot of reasons, vanderbilt university offered me a full professorship and i was associate professor at princeton and they offered me more money so i could say i was part of the reason but i can also say it was rare for a tenure princeton professor to leave princeton to go to vanderbilt. back then, 1998 when they approached me. at that time, vanderbilt was not the world-class university it is today and when i told people i was going to vanderbilt, they said you were going where? vanderbilt? where is that? i made the transition and

accepted the contract, i physically moved to nashville in 2000 and i had to put vanderbilt on the map so now people don't ask, vanderbilt? where is that? >> the tennessean, he wrote in 2017, i will not miss when you retire from vanderbilt, i will not miss what american universities have allowed themselves to become. >> i think. >> what does that mean x. >> it has to do with -- after early retirement, as a university professor, i could have talking to larson my 80s or 90s as long as i can make it across campus to my classroom, i would be allowed to teach but i left because what i saw happening at the universities, i thought it was very destructive with the political correctness, trigger warnings, the insanity i felt taking place, i felt it was like

inmates running a prison because the administrators, whatever decisions dramatic, they caved so quickly and when i started teaching and when i was a student, they should know part of my background is being a high school dropout community college earning five college university degrees so i've been a student is an adult as well as a professor, are no longer marketplaces of its so i found too much indoctrination will race theory start about the university, i watched permeate every sector of the university including education and sciences and math so i did not like what

universities were becoming. in many ways, they become a destructive force on our society and they are responsible for a lot of the turmoil we have. i think it is a shame, anti- americanism allowed to take place and for the most part, not many conservatives on campus now. when i started my career, i was not a conservative, not republican, i was just a good democrat but i had commonsense so my research a lot of attention because i always asked difficult questions and i voice seen things others didn't see in my work has been considered so i do believe i have a gifting i'm able to see things others don't because i make connections. when you say what brought me to vanderbilt? i can answer that as a

christian, at that time i was going throughan transition. this was after my tenure at princeton and i was on this spiritual journey and now i would say god ordered by footsteps, god brought me to nashville and vanderbilt certainly wasn't something that made a lot of logical sense, i didn't have a lot of family nashville but i made that decision and don't regret it. i love nashville.ve i even ran for mayor. [laughter] >> carol swain, when and why did you become a conservative and/or republican in your lifetime? >> okay i've always been a deep thinker and hundred why, what, this thing about the meaning of life and a journey. i would say in many ways, i was

a spiritual seeker. after my tenure at princeton, i found myself in a situation where i was married and more money than i ever imagined in my life and coming from property, i was in a lot of money, i attained the early tenure at princeton which was michael. mike takes seven years to get tenure. i set a goal for three. i went up a tenure in the third year it was awarded fourth-year. i was disillusioned so i started this journey that took me through new age religion, eastern religions, whatever was religious, i studied it and it sort of culminated, full-blown christian conversion experience

in the baptist tradition, they would call it a born-again experience and what's interesting is this happened between the time, it happened as i was negotiating, taking place during the time i was negotiating between vanderbilt and princeton and it was not obvious to a lot of people i was going through this transition but vanderbilt hired me in 1998, the christian conversion experience and 99, i showed up in nashville in 2000 as a new christian, born again and it's not something i expected or planned, it happened. as i grew in my faith, i became more and more conservative so i think a combination of things that cost me to become conservative, the christian

faith and being around people i think shared my values but also the world changed in crazy ways. when you do have a true religious conversion experience, he think about eternity and what is important so all of those things happened and impacted me and helped make me who i am today but i did not become a republican right, i went back to school and earned a fifth degree at yale and while i was in newel haven, that's wheni became a devout believer and even contemplated at thaton time leaving academia which i did not

like 2000, 2001 i became an independent stop calling myself a c democrat. 2009 was when i officially became a republican. 2008, president bush appointed me to the national endowment for the humanities and tennessee advisory committee to the u.s. civil rights commission as an independent. being on the commission as an independent, i have lots of exposures to different types of people that i had exposure to more and moree republicans and t was a combination of the parties platforms, the republicans stood for, what the democrats stood for that encouraged me to make that transition. >> what has it been like to be a black conservative woman in academia?

>> i went from being a hotshot becoming a pariah so they were times that were very difficult because people do treat you as if you lost your mind or you are the weakest link, you're not smart, you're stupid and all of those things when you are a christian and i think being black and being a christian and a conservative, all of those things made itin difficult in te beginning. ...

>> . >> and then later my stepmother built two rooms at the back of the house. i revisited that house h ten years ago but that new addition had collapsed into rubble but the original two rooms are still standing. the house had no indoor plumbing and i noticed it had

no drywall but i had cardboard and wallpaper on top of that. fake brick siding and a tin roof. and that was the first house that i remember we had to carry water downhill from the house and then from the cemetery. i remember not having enough to eat and then back in those days if you carry biscuits to school and enhance my spread you were teased in your lunches because my siblings and i would not eat our lunch

is at school but before school or afterschool because he did not want to be teased my mother would not sign us up for free lunches. free books were available but she would not sign is that because she said that we don't take charity i did my heise one —- work at school because he voted very well at school that adf 180 school days we missed and we all failed that year but i can remember missing a lot of school coming in and still making an a or b on the test. but she had polio that is one reason she didn't finish high school and then parts of my

family. i grew up in circumstances where sometimes in the winter because we didn't have snowshoes and there was a deep snow and it melted in the spring. >> and you mention in the priests show chat your mother is 91. >> yes she lives with me at least ten years, maybe longer. seven of my siblings are alive. but pretty much i was on that got out of poverty and as a child i was different my mother said i was different i was very serious i and they always had a sense of urgency

and felt like it was something i was supposed to do i i ended up getting married att 16 had my first child at 17 and going through a period of deep depression when i had people calm into my life to change my life with their words. if i think about where i was and where i am today, it is a miracle. i do believe in god and they had no idea i would ever go to college but was painfully shy in fact i wish i most of my life even into my forties i had an opportunity to be on good morning america or one of those shows and i turned it down i turned it down i was too afraid but the challenge integration i felt that it was sota important we had to talk about it and share the ideas

and that is when i started to force myself to get the media training and then the rest is history. but i had a painful shyness and sound that left me after at a christian conversion experience because after that i focused on the fact didn't matter people thought i was stupid or crazy the only person i had to pleases god and i feel that way today. so i realize even with this audience that people would be very hostile i don't care what you think of me i do what i believe is right i do the best that i can and to do what i think to help others. host: back to your book we the people "i would often escape

into a fantasy world i was not black or poor and i was not female what was her reaction toea that story? >> [laughter] she said you know that she that it was amazing or something like that evensn as a child, i forget you have the book in front of you whatever i said in the book. [laughter] host: that you knew enoughan to want to be the best thing that you could be in america. >> yes. that is what she said. [laughter] host: did she mean white male? >> i t think she thought and a sense of privilege but my childhood fantasy i read mad magazine i read richie rich in my fantasy world my name is

david. so i would put my character in all sorts of situations andtu that's how i got through poverty and a lot of those situations but then i thought this is weird but the young me believed she could do anything. if i think about the older me that can see all the reasons why something may not work so the older me is more cautious but the older me believed i could do anything and i don't see myself as handicapped or black or a woman. are coming from c poverty. that i don't have any money that as a young adult that you

had to be rich to go to college i didn'tan of you were smart and black there were these opportunities and scholarships. maybe would have learned that if i did not drop out of school after completing the eighth grade but i did not know about these things. also i shared with people that many of the mentors who came into my life and encourage me did not look like me they were white somewhere white men and white women that they encourage me that there was less interest in me because i teachers daughter or doctors daughter i came from poverty with black schools and black communities and then to look down upon us and then to offer hand tonight and dark skinned then the

better that you do not prejudice in the black community to be light-skinned gives a person enormous advantages and it is worldwide based on research. host: and a masters the phd in political science unc chapel hill, master studies in law from yale law school. prior to all that you got a ba degree in criminal justice from roanoke college. why criminal justice and when did you fear off of that quick. >> you also missed probably the most important degree which is an associate degree in business.

from virginia western community college and i can tell you initially i recently signed up for drawing class and i have done some painting. i was told to be practical so i followed the advice of mentors of people who were positioned to give me advice. so being practical i went from wanting to beus an art major to doing business which was difficultth because i did not get the math and english i would have to fly had the high school equivalency before i entered that community college. i graduated probably with a gpa two.eight made the dean's list a couple of times when i studied. if i didn't i didn't. but i got the bench there's of

criminal justice when i applied for jobs with a two-year degree in business i applied to be a store manager and i was told i needed a four-year degree. so i decided i need a four-year degree and to be able to distinguish myself i filled out enough job application that i felt i could have distinguish myself if i had the awards and honors and things put in place so i made a decision they needed to getnd another degree and a needed to be an honor student so i chose the field had the least amount of math i knew i would do well in anything that was not too heavily mathematic.

so i i chose criminal justice. i also chose it because it was a combination of political science, sociology, philosophy and psychology and those were the things i was interested in and i made that decision i would be an honor student. working at the community college library at the same time 40 hours a week and went to school full-time and also worked nights and weekends at the committee college library in a red and purchase books how to take objective test. how to take essay exams and a graduated magna cum laude and had the highest gpa in criminal justice and they started a scholarship fores minorities so i worked

full-time and the mother sometimes having to take my children to work at night and went to school full-time starting a scholarship it is still there butec criminal justice was chosen because it's a field i thought it will i would do well in. host: i agree with the math. host: thank you for joining us are monthly in depth program with one author with his or her body of work professor and whoor doctor carol swain started writing books being published in 1993 with the representation of african-americans in congress. the next came out 2002 the new white nationalism in america. invading america. we the people.

abduction how liberalism steals our children's hearts and minds came out in 2016. a co-author of the 1776 report which came out 2021 as did black eye for america how critical race theory burnsns down thewe house a bestseller we been talking 45 minutes now it's your turn to join the conversation we welcome your comments and questions.

>> and also i want the viewers to know there are a couple of othert books that i did and then there are some forces of white nationalism and then i have been new book coming out next week counter cultural living. and that will be my first christian book. host: counter cultural living. coming out later this year.

>> later this month i think the release date is september 13. host: are you self-publishing now? >> no. be published but i am working, i have a company called unity training solutions.com and i'm working on another book and how i came up with the idea. so i can tell you at this stage in my life i am writing shorter books and i writing them more quickly. host: what was it like to self publish blackeye? >> i had an expert guiding me through the process. but anyone who is published in academic booktv not even academic, knows that the authors get lousy deals.

they get a small fraction and the publishers don't always invest as much so the author has to market them anyway then you don't own your own copyright. i just had a bad experience with one of my books and he made a decision i wanted to own the copyright to my materials. so that is part of why i self-publishing at some point if i write my own memoir i might use a traditional publisher but i don't see the advantage anymore because i can hire experts that know how to do that cover design and go to the process and companies like ingram star they can put you in all the bookstores i don't see the need for traditional publisher. of course if i was the

assistant professor somewhere i would have to but i published at cambridge preston harvard press and other major presses so i don't need to prove anything. host: what do you mean when you refer to the new white nationalism? >> first of all at one time i thought that was most important book i had written in b my life. maybe it was that now blackeye of america that is most important book and certainly the only one that was bestseller. i think that the publisher titled the book i wanted to have a different title but what is new about white nationalism i thought it's not the neo-nazi white style —- supremacy people were focusing on that whenever they talk

about white extremism they talk about the beer gut and that they could not put together three words and saying that i was saying all these ignorant stupid people not capable of doing anything. i was interested in people that were putting forth a different type of argument that was more intellectual. so what got me really concerned was there were high profile hate crimes in the late 19 nineties and early 2000's where people went and shot and killed people of other races. that's not happening today from the level back them i was especially concerned when there was a young white

college student whose mother wasnk a realtor and father was a doctor or something like that and he had an asian girlfriend and went to college and was radicalized by the world church of the neopagan religion and he went out and killed two people that shot 11 and then committed suicide. that's what got me interested in the book and i commissioned interviews with people who seem to be leaders with the organizations at that timeil with high profile individuals. that's what got me interested in it and i found there were conditions i felt were

converging at that point in american history that would create racial unrest and i found the language with those identity politics provided an argument really for all groups to organize and the problem with the identity politics and the multiculturalism was saying that every group needed to organize andse focus on the history. but not white people and it was a double standard that i knew would be problematic for young people like the new white nationalism we need to be concerned about was more intellectual very much focused

on double standards and the perceptionss of civil rights working with taking place today in america i think very much about that book and the conclusion of the book was we need to move away from identity politics toward the identity that was not good for the nation but it would be good for our group and not look at the whole so this is a multiethnic and multiracial nation for trying to advance our own group interest. >> let's start taking calls from callers you are on booktv. >>caller: thank you very muche.

i think she is exactly right about america destroying itself from the inside and actually i'm surprised these radical groups like al qaeda and isis haven't caught on in a big way. and then probably have so my question is about afghanistan if there was any lessons that can be learned from that defeat their and also does she think we havebi a moral obligation to taken a big number. >> i'm just talking because i'm not an expert form policy

didn't have to happen the exit the way it did because in america we are supposed to take care of our own if i was traveling overseas as an american i would be crushed with the whole idea the state department that they would not rescue a me and it was a disgrace and it makes you wonder if the biden administration was from the islamist because it all benefited the left behind the people that worked for us and risk their lives and left them behind and it is evil what we did and god bless america because it is an evil nation

right now not all americans are evil but then nation as a whole is quite evil and i don't see the good coming from it. as far as taking in refugees, the problem with the biden administration as far as i can see is they are not taking in the right refugees and if afghan men are bringing in child brides just so that young man who could be part of the taliban or al qaeda so they can come into the us then we open the floodgates to terrorism. but the islamist have a lot of influence over the us and politicians and congress is bought and paid for that

republicans as well as democrats so i think what we did was terrible and we lost respect around the world i don't know how we regain that. it troubles me we've done this horrible thing. host: west virginia go ahead you areca on with author carol swain. >>caller: you said you were dark skinned. i don't see any skin on you i see the glory of god all over you. >> thank you. >>caller: thank you for your life and think your mother from me for your life. and when you started talking about the religious experiences, the

hair on my legs, arms and the back of my neck stood up the whole time you were talking. i just consider you a sister in christ. >> thank you so much i can see where brother in christ there is one race. the human race there is a book by victor frankel. that there are two races of men of decent men and the race of the indecent but there is only one race and it is the human race so if we just show some love and respect for one another we could get along and we cannot have these problems in america that have them manufactured by people that hate america. host: that goes back to her favorite book list of the king

james bible. >>caller: thank you to c-span and god bless everybody. i will do a book tour i am in alexandria louisiana. we have a bible college and i thank you would be a great guest to talk about your book. i don't know if you will do a book tour. i served in the military as a military police officer. black people are asking about afghanistan. i hope you will do a book tour.

and god bless you and god bless america. thank you. host: do you do for tours? >> when people invite me to speak but i self publish my book so i don't have a publicist. if you see me on tv, icom when they call me so c-span or msnbc or any of those places you contacted me i always say yes. we need to do more conversing with one another so if we would just set down with a greater understanding and less hatred. >> yes. thank you for the show. i believe the race or the

human race it is the race of life and perseverance to cheer us on and how we live our life. what would be our legacy? with the 1776 which was the founding of saint augustine florida so these different days are rolling number but 1619 is more of english if we base the days from slavery and the expansion it was based on the english colonies where the spaniards in the french were different in the sense of their religion and their

culture so the issues of america being great do you think we are being deprived instead of being multilingual? >> i'm sorry multilingual? >> if we are multi- cultured if your multicultural melting pot shouldn't our language be more than just english because webster not daniel webster. >> will here is what i think. i think the nation and the culture and all those things that unite us, it's important to have a common language to communicate and i have been in

foreign countries were i did not know the language and i was in a tokyo airport and with that interpreter go to a pharmacy in the airport to use gestures and i would hate to imagine what it would be like if he did not speak english to be interested but to hold the nation together you need a common language that has to have a common set of values those that have pointed out the inaccuracies but the whole

idea what that project with 4500 schools i find it very troubling and young people to hate america and to hate each other because children don't naturally think in terms of race they are playing with their friends or whatever the name is and then thinking my black friend or white friend but the critical race there he agenda babies as young as six months can be racist and young people need to be taught to see race andce i would argue there is one race the human

race we should focus on our common humanity. >> when i was a young man segregation and existed i am fully convinced systemic racism does not exist in america although it is clear a small minority would like to createvi this. >> i tell people i was born 1954 that was the year brown versus board of education supreme court case that ended discrimination in virginia we were the state of massive resistance i was born in 54 it was late 60 i believe in schools integrated in virginia. but i p watched on television

the civil rights movement take place i watch the signing of the 64 of the voting rights act and i watched systemic racismsm collapse that made is equal under the law and the discrimination that still exist in america and in the world that is individual discrimination we don't have systemic racism in america even though people are trying to bring it back and those that may describe themselves as progressive what they are doing they are we segregating our children at colleges and universities separate class sections separatism and some

public schools that are separating the black kids and that is part of what the civil rights movement is a violation and i would encourage people that if you don't agree with that to pass the civil rights act and the amendment we need to push back with racial ethnic and partisan lines we do not need to be divided but it is illegal and unconstitutionalal and my new book black eye for america and has two chapters on how to push back. i believe critical race theory that takes place right now it will collapse the next couple of years because it is illegal and unconstitutional and

hurting all ofil our children that they are victims but i was successful because i do not see myself as handicapped. all of thosese things i could've used as excuses i worked hard and as a consequence i have been able to overcome the circumstances of my birth and be the person i am today a lot of people poured into my life and they were not all people that looked like me. host: fortune is coming in from newew york city.

>>caller: i must agree that she sounds very impressive but there needs to be some clarification made based on certain comments so systemic racism existed but i disagree with her fact. we do have systematic racism in this country and the fact is that you have black men that are still being targeted and black men that are not give in opportunities based on thee qualification and i understand you can pull yourself by the bootstrap but

if we have fairness in the system where everyone can do something then this should not be an issue. the issue we're facing in the united states of america is that once you are a certain color than i would like to hear your comment. host: before we hear from doctor swain tell us about yourself. >>caller: i am a history teacher and i understand the history of this country to go back in full but to talk about

racism and racism and i would like to know what is your perspective on your form of racism? host: thank you so much. >>n first of all i sympathize with the color and his perspective. and i do have two sons, two adult sons. one is 50 and other is 47. i raise my children so i answered all your. i'm probably telling everyone more than they need to know. i've been married twice to a black man so i know the perspective that he articulates and we don't have to agree on everything. i think it is important as far

as the police are concerned if you actually look at the data there are certainly fewernl cases of black man being shot by white police officers today. not talking about this year but the historical data things have improved a long time ago so what happens often with the media they replay over and over and over again for a small bit of information and inflamed the passions of the black community almost not related toth racism but circumstances and we do have the right and an ability to choose if you look at the

black crime rate and the black on black victimization rate there are problems in the black community that causes them to have more interaction than they should. and for the black community to thrive in so many ways we have to focus on changing some of the behaviors in our own community and take some responsibility. white people cannot make a sequel with those disparities. so if there are studies that show that black children spend the least amount of time studying off any group. asian studied the most and then whites and it goes down with black studying the least amount of time if you look at

the black on black crime rate that is shameful. i don't thanki you can always blame other peopleio because there has always been poverty and people like me i don't consider myself the exception. a lot of people help meth along the way there were many helping hands but i was willing to work hard i had no one to tell me i was a victim and couldn't do something because of the color of my skin or the fact that i was a woman or poor. i believed int the american dream. i did not have people telling me that negative messages that black children received today that they are victims. or racism is permanent. police hate them and out to get them. i know many police officers and i know they have stories just like i have stories why they became a s police officer and inn many cases they were

called into their profession and they had their own encounter. so these are human beings. like any profession you might have people who should not be an it but the vast majority are caring, loving human beings. that are doing a job we need them to do. so unfortunate we have this narrative that is anti- police that his focus so much on the negativity because is not constructive for our society. i respect with the caller has to say i disagree with him and i believe the black community of which i am a part of an i don't believe the equity of equal outcomes from the unequal effort.

that is what i experience with equal opportunity i made a decision to study to become an honor student i worked hard i made a decision i was hitting the books i worked rely was in college i worked in a nursing home i worked in the garment factory i sold things door to door so i'm not a person that has not worked menial jobs and other possibilities america offers is never a better time to be black in america i believe people should stop complaining and roll up their because we never had that better. i really hate the critical race theory analyze they are telling our children. it is destroying america with

our negative anti-me american messaging. host: cincinnati good afternoon.on >>caller: hello mr. wayne. i just want to say that you just lifted my spirits in a huge way. i was raised to believe but that feeling less than to me to places i don't ever want to goth again. i believe that being black was bad because that is what i was taught and i would never be anything more than that. i believe what has to happen in the black community we have to get together to have an

uncomfortable conversation about what is going on in our community and take that upon ourselves to do just that. and at some point you have to put the stick down and move forward i was stuck for a long time and i don't ever want to feel that hopelessness and the fear of never again both of my kids are doing really well but that is because you have to break a cycle at some point in the mentality. >> thank you. you are so right we have siblings and they say things i was called fish eyes and frankenstein i that i was the ugliest person in the world

anti- got into my early twenties and people started to say you are attractive i didn't marry for love i was so thrilled anybody would have me because my self-esteem was so low. those were things that affected the choices thate i made at know if it was about being black but i felt awkward and unattractive and just the negativity. host: the next call comes from stevensville maryland. please go ahead. >>caller: thank you so much for you being you and your life and allan you have accomplished and doing what you felt was right regardless of the feedback that you got

or even the abusive language and what people said about you when you became a believer and did what you thought was right. also, to me many of our problems in the country it seems like they are labeled as race but speaking for myself, i feel it's based on our spiritual beliefs it doesn't matter at all but color someone is even our background they are very different but i relate to all of it because there is commonalities but also i am so angry about afghanistan and the wayth that has been handled. it seems to me that.

host: were not talking about afghanistan today but wee appreciate your comments. >> i appreciate the young ladies call. i understand what she says about my faith and how that relates to economics and the social class. because when iin was working in those menial jobs we all wanted that ten-cent or 25 cents raise wewe all wanted it and needed it. so i go back to one race the human race and within christianity, if it works the way it is supposed to work we are all brothers and sisters in christ and love one another but i don't see the race but just my friend and i wish people could love one another

and not be so caught up on external things that don't matter. i wish people would realize there is an agenda and destroying america. host: in 2016 carol swains book abductionch came out and in that book she writes in the academic world it is defined by cultural relativism. >> this is part of postmodernism and cultural marxism and they all feed into critical theory but all cultures are the same and there is no right or wrong and

that isiv part of the message that you get university with the culture of relativism come at one time the political left said there was no absolute truth but now they seem to have identified some absolute truth and inbe many ways have become they have their own religion going on for who is to be shamed or bullied or canceled we haven't talked about this but i would say i was canceled because of an opinion that i expressed that was so far from the idea of america being a nation we do have some freedom with the first amendment of freedom of speech and freedom of religion freedom of association that there are people that would totally append and destroy the constitution so we are

regressing as a nation and as a people so with abduction we wrote that book we saw so many people raised in christian families that went off c to college not just secular but it could also be christian but by christmas they were atheist so with the political left they have the agenda of secularism they operate just like a religion and we want to know what those children would encounter when they went off to school even k-12 with the various things children were exposed to many parents were not aware of. host: this is the text message.

my name is ellen what is your opinion of the new laws restricting access to building in texas and georgia? >> i don't see new laws restricting access to voting. i think the voting rights act in those extensions were first enacted in 1865 have been extended many times. and the voting rights act was to r remove barriers to voting. there are no barriers today. and now with the ballot harvesting the supreme court has ruled against where people were sending absentee ballots i know those in virginia who never voted that pretty much demand that thesech people vote.

this is not how it democratic republic is supposed to operate. i think we need valid integrity and it is problematic where people can turn in ballots without identification there should be national identification that is not a problem for america because you cannot live in this nation without having identification if you are on public assistance you have to have identification to be able to sign up to get a check. social security needs identification. it is not a problem. i don't see that i think the democratic party, i hate to be partisan but they have an agenda that they are using

racial and aztec minorities in particular, black people to advance their own agenda. but that this whole thing of voting rights being impeded they are not. they are trying to take away each state's ability to govern its own voting laws and to nationalize that that's not an our interest so in georgia and various states things that were done in the last election documented and put in place since covid and i think those measures were allowed they should not be allowed in 2022 even though a lot of people want to bring back those restrictions and use covid again. host: you mentioned being canceled. what happened? >> it's a long story how much

time do we have? [laughter] host: we have 35 minutes. >> i've always been considered a provocative thinker. if i try not to be transparent it doesn't work. i was born to be transparent but after the attack in france that happened on january 7, i wrote an opinion piece that criticized islam. and i said it wasn't like other religions posing a threat to us and i talked about the need for muslims to understand our constitution and way of life that set off a firestorm nothing was as controversial as that. and then the newspaper published the article so then

i knew that it was over and resulted in protest of me and i was called a bigot and a hater and i was harassed for more thann a year. and it was a factor for me to leave academia and people there were protesters they were not my students from those across the country of change.org petition and a position but then they realized then they wanted me suspended that then they wanted me to be to go through mandatory sensitivity training and that they could not do that.

but it was a stressful period in my life but i found myself labeled, harassed, marginalized it was very hurtful and then i made the decision to take early retirement and a lot of that had to do with i didn't want to be in a stressful environment and at my age i am thinking i cannot been doing my best work under the circumstances not where i need to be so i struck out on my own and i started to businesses carol swain enterprises, unity training solutions and i have a 501(c)3 nonprofit. pretty much i'm out there in the world sharing my views my classroom is the world. welcome to my classroom. and her videos and various

things i reached over 77 million people, far more than i could have reached in a university classroom. so those people who were trying to cancel me and and my influence by pressuring me they gave me a bigger platform the more theymo attacked me the more followers they found on social media. so please attack me. attacked me some more. host: we have 30 minutes left in our conversation. new jersey go ahead. m >>caller: professor, thank you for your work i really appreciate it i see you have much in common with other black conservatives like shelby steele or others. and a make an assumption that

you collaborate and support each other. so i wonder with all of that work and from my perspective with a significant impact on conservatives who define themselves so i wonder do you have an impact on the black community at large and to move them toward a more conservative point of view? >> i think i am. from 2018 and 2019 and i made it a point to campaign in the black community. in 2019 i was set up in a historically black area. and i got to know people. i had a great experience. i came in and number two for selection i was grossly

outspent by theos other candidates. nashville is a city that never had a republican mayor but iran as a republican. i had some democrats endorsed me was a great experience but now i'm working with the organization i have been to the rallies and a do a short segment right tackle about my life and experiences. i have met scores of young black and hispanic conservatives and some of them became conservatives because they watch my videos. so i have an army of young people they are not just black. they cut across every race and ethnicity who support me and

follow me some of them they say i wish you were my mother or my grandmother. that's okay. i o don't mind of being reminded of their grandmother but i am making that but we can do better in america and it goes back to how we treat each other and the humanity of all individuals to do unto others as we have them do unto us i hate the critical race theory and the diversity and equity and inclusion training focused on dividing americans with marxism that were not bring about reconciliation for that to occur people have to work together across racial and ethnic it cannot be an unequal

relationship for one group that is expected to do all the work and the other group is expected to receive. you have tork work as equal partners. when it comes to the black community. one of the books that i talk about to impact my life a book that i read as a child and is a factor my quest for education and booker t. washington came out of slavery and was able to get an education because he wanted an education and he became the founder of tuskegee university in alabama. i think a lot of young people talking about systemic racism, they need to read booker t. washington when we talk about black wall street and the racismth of white people

we needs to talk about it was established in created less than 60 years after slavery ended. these are blacks i did not have government laws but they could build a community and the city and a part of town that was the envy of the area. so those that were involved burning down black wall street it was not based on government loans or handouts. >> what is your advice of someone who wants to run for office? >> we have too many people that want to run for office. we need people were not running for office want to go

and stay but they are willing to make a sacrifice. they are not down and out in their luck but to step away from a profession and poor themselves into the nation and the betterment of everyone if they are called to do something that is unpopular we have too many people that are there for themselves if you want to run for office and make sure why you want to run is thatr about you or the nation as a whole? too many people in both political parties that should not be in power. host: would you do it again? >> me? i don't think i'm called to run for office but to hold politicians accountable. is someone approach me about an appointment i would have to

way that very seriously i've learned never to say never if you have asked me if i would have run for office like me running for mayor maybe the senate butay mayor? i would say no i was not called but yetet i did so i have learned never to say never. but is not something that i'm prepared to do i think i can have more influence from what i'm doing right now. host: mount vernon new york go ahead. >>caller: i am 81 my wife and i have a married 56 years. >> congratulations. >>caller: we set foot in every state i was in the

military 26 years. we are both retired i've done a lot a of thinking about the status of our nation in general so much involves how children are raised you need to have two parents in the family. and my faith as a christian as i look back is so key to live a clean and proper sense of life as has been prepared for us. so when we don't have two parents in the family and the good things that the bible tells us all of those things

and so many of our kids don't have that opportunity to know that is the way one should live. >> i agree all of this focused on systemic racism and equity butrn the research shows a young person born in poverty if they finish high school and get a job ando they wait until they are married to have their first child they are not likely to be poor and any single-parent household they will be poor. it does stand from poverty but yet we had people that argue in traditional families that is a european idea that math

is racist standard english is racist. the any of us that have been successful and among your viewers there isle a lot of successful people. they know you have to get to places on time. and there so many things to have the moral background. but not to belong to white people that all people. host: black aces black interest. the new white nationalism in america.

and then to reclaim that faith and promise coming out in 2011. how liberalism steals our children's hearts and minds in the 1776 report and how critical race theory is burning down the house and another book is coming out shortly this year countercultural living. what is your trademark brand quick. >> it's too though we the people to say that we reclaim our nation and our world and whatever the book i wrote about our country and then the first book where i really focused on communicating with

theer american people rather than with my colleagues. so on my later book that were not written for an academic audience somi debating immigration those are essays with an educated audience for these are really writtence for the american people. but i just want to take us back to the judeo-christian groups and when i say every american immigrants and people that are here in america to be a part of our culture that includes the declaration of independence, the constitution and even the ten commandments and the bible because it has influenced america's values across our nation and then to

understand america you have to understand the documents that people found important in we the people there is a chance and idea with different sides of the issue and there is a book that refers to the godless constitution that god is not mentioned in the constitution and not because the people were trying to keep religion out so there was a conscious decision not to have a religious document with a direct to the constitution but every american needs to read those documents andus understand what it means because they lay the groundwork for everything that happened subsequently

with blacks being given the right to vote and the civil rights act, all of that has come out of who we are as a people and in america have always tried to remedy. the nation became the envy of the world that i love this child that motivated me but it no longer exist and i see that america is teetering on the edge of the precipice that we could fall to china and around andil and how those hostile nations that we are a godless nation we deserve judgment and

then to say god bless america i hate when it comes off the lives of people who are destroying america. host: other text. >> so just to think about the racism but the teacher should not demand the right answer for minority students to show that they will not grow up three mathematicians or scientist or doctors or pharmacist or anywhere that theyey require math and i am the person who struggles with math i took we medial math and community

college. i hadth to get through those statistics and my first book i have multiple regressions in their because i had to learned to get my phd just like water off of a ducks back i had to learned and thenn i forgot it but i had to do it to get to schoolol. >>caller: we are one human race and then like even to stop using the term trace is him up racially different and racially constructed because we are one race and that said this country that we live in

was founded on the myth of white supremacy and understand how teaching that is teaching hate it is just teaching the truth i am married to a white man. i love my white brothers and sisters and i want us all to do better and that's why it's important that white supremacy be looked at in full sunlight and we acknowledge the fact with these founding documents that those that were told to be three fifths human and all the wonderful things that come out of the constitution not the original constitution but the amendment and had to be fought for and i daresay that nobody thinks those who fought for years for the right to vote hated men. they just wanted to be at the table. >> i appreciate your call but

you really need to look that up because that is a false narrative when it was ratified it hadns nothing to do with black people of three fifths of a human being, had to do with representation in congress and it was 99 slaveholding states for the compromise because during that time each state was awarded a representative and dennis out theyey had 600,000 they were pushing in the north would not allow them to do that. and giving them more representatives in congress so and so the people that push the three-phase clause were the abolitionist so that is

something you can look up even with wikipedia. even that gets it right just like you heard it and educated people repeating what is a false narrative and ally that is easily refuted by going to the research so as america being a white supremacist country so we go back to 1619 america was not founded in 1776 thecl declaration of independence that is the nation we call the united states of america and 1776 not ask t19 because then we were british colony in the initial

slavery is where people were released after seven years and many of those people and then those indentured servants and then slavery became permanent much light later so talk about slavery talk about the fact that native americans so slavery is a stain on all america not just on one group. host: california please go ahead. >>caller: thank you very

much i have seen your interview found booker t. washington what was the transition from a democrat to a republican? so i notice that intellectuals like even the black community butti the blacks and the democrats. host: i think we got the two questions. >> when he asked me about

republican. host: the second question black conservative academic scholars are proud of the us while democrats are not so much. >> a stated earlier in the program that i had a christian conversion experience late in 1990 i became a devout christian believer and as i grew in my faith i became very uncomfortable with the democratic party and if you are a christian and you read the platforms of the two political parties they are very clear very different so i became uncomfortable with the platform and what they were advocating but i was not ready to become a republican i became an independent and i

was an independent through 2009 and 2008 president bush appointed me to the national endowment to the humanities and the tennessee advisory community for the civil-rights commission i'm sorry. those were twol political appointments and during that time iin was appointed by a republican president i started to get invited to various events i started to me republicans personally and that i would be the independent. but at some point i decided i cannot vote for democrats any longer based on the party platform and what they stood of because of my faith and that republican party isn't

perfect we are human beings but i made a decision in 2009 to become a republican. but then black conservatives have varying views. i am a christian conservative summer libertarians. we differ quite a bit. but i do think we all of america and we believe, i grew up believing it was the greatest nation in the world. but now i learn more with the nation has done and the shame of afghanistan and various things the nation allows to take place throughout history come i realized it wasn't as great as i thought it was. but again what we have in america is a lot of people that want to do the right

thing. and the average american they love their fellow man and want to get along and this cuts across whites and blacks. also the average black person has more in common than we have differences. in the people just want to get along and live their lives and not being discriminated against weather white or black. and i think if we did not have so many leaders out there pushing their own agendas then we would have a better nation and a better world. because people now i let off byby form powers and some of them are people they don't care about our communities we represent but they care about office.in

stuff there is someone out there if you want to run for office for the power not because you care for people then you need to speak with what you are doing let's try to get the last collar hear from delaware. we will move on to john from hershey pennsylvania you are the last collar. >>caller: this is a great show. i have an incredible amount of respect for your guest. but i believe she puts herself in a dangerous position with her political views being an african-american and i shudder

to think of the threats. i just have a couple of quick comments. i happen to believe two of the major evil disastrous institutions in our country that have become disastrous our education and the democratic party. host: we have his point. carol swain? and your book objections. >> mann —- abduction. >> we all will die one day and the manner of our death. people are terrified of covid.

i happen to believe as a christian that there is a time and place for my death. it is already known and written in the book and i cannot live my life in fear. and i will live so i don't allow threats. people can't take anything from me. but yet i thrive because of god's protection. but if something should happen to me i don't believe anything would happen until my work is done. when my work is done it won't matter. so the mostthfo important things for people to realize that you will die. live for something that will make a difference for someone. >> the most dangerous institutions in america. >> i think that the

democratic party has been taken over by a radical fringe group because i was a democrat most of mylife and the democrats were not always what they are today . for people who are democrats, you need to take your party back. because what i see in washington and what i see around me, that is not the democratic party that i grew around andi knew . and i live, i've lived long enough to remember the time when democrats and republicans worked together for the good of the nation. they were not as polarizedas they are right now . the democrats and republicans should have the national interest and because of the lobbyists and they get from area's interests, they're not representing us. there representing themselves. i don't know what to do about congress. whether it's the executive branch, the judicial branch

or the legislative branch, they have broken institutions and our schools have been taken over by the critical race theorists and it's not just the critical race here is. there are critical race theory. there's critical we're theory, feminist theory, they're dividing males against females, heterosexuals against homosexuals, blacks against whites, were people against rich people. it doesn't have to be that way . i would encourage americansof goodwill to push back across political lines, across religious lines . we don't have to live this way. we can restore our nation but we have to get rid of our leaders and we have to decide what's important to us and we have to reclaim the media. every institution has been taken over.

i didn't list 1984 as a favorite book but people need to read orwell's 1984 because we are living an orwellian nightmare and it d

places, memoir of struggle with lyme disease. >> new york times columnist, author doses douthat. before we get to religion, politics, et cetera, let's talk about your book the deep places. >> we were planning on having more kids