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>> good evening everyone. i'm the executive director and care circle is a nonprofit programming with the south's oldestindependent bookstore and we're located in decatur georgia . we're helping watch doctor carol spoke "t: the story of testosterone, the hormone that dominates and divides us" . it's published in the united states today. doctor hooven is joined by doctor barbara natterson-horowitz. doctor natterson-horowitz is a cardiologist and evolutionary biologist on the faculty of harvard medical school, harvard's department of human evolutionary biology and division of cardiology. she's the author of liquidity as well as wild hood. she's president of the international society for evolution medicine and public health and has recently launched a research

initiative across the tree of life . which focuses on the interdependent policies of women that we share. and of course we've learned about the dock of work of doctor carol hooven, a director of graduatestudies in the department of evolutionary biology at arbor university . she learned studying sex th differences and has taught at emerson. she's received numerous teaching awards and her book was named one of harvard princeton's top 10 tried-and-true. i trust you are as excited to dig into this work as i am but first it's important to frame tonight's conversation for our audience . as a amnesty institution carroll's values to stay in hard and complex conversations, to assume best intent and seek to provide clear information so that we can make informed choices aboutour body .

tells a story about who shapes narratives and the procedures that shape our lives. we are living in an era when science is being recruited as a weapon that affects people especially children as well as the doctorsparents and teachers who are trying to help them . we have gone through other times when science was regraded and one can argue still is . we've lived through times when science has been regretted to justify white supremacy and justice advocates teach us science has often been a double-edged sword from the standard line easilyplotted on a bell curve so we cannot talk about science without talking about power and human desire . as doctor hooven argues it's a useful tool for us to betterunderstand ourselves . what we do with it is up to us. i am invested in this conversation and i am a type

i diabetic. that means i rely on not one but two life sustaining exogenous hormones to help me live a happyhealthy and well-balanced life . and not regarded as local abstractions, biological aberrations and problems to be salt but as part of the wonder of our vast biological universe. what i appreciated about doctor hooven's book is biology does not have to be destiny. biology's consequences are often revealed for so many of us. we have a responsibility to understand how biology informs aspects of our world and our behavior. i also felt called to remember what is important all of us to avoid responding to data as a threat. when we are wary about how big data mightbe interpreted for groups of individuals who seek to do us harm .

that definition as is hard as hooven acknowledges but it's crucially important to understand what the data says if we are going to make changes that reflect the true diversity of human experience . i invited doctor hooven to speak today while understanding the research she lays bare for all in a safer and healthier world so please welcome doctor hooven and doctor natterson-horowitz . >> that was a really moving introduction and i appreciate it so much because that really is what i was trying to do in my book testosterone and i'm going to tell the audience. i tear up a lot. it's just normal. i just found that really moving and it may be emotional and i started to tear up.

i might do that again don't be alarmed. it's just a feature. it may be a bug, i'm not sure . thank you so much for having me. i'm delighted to be here. it's an honor. and i'm so happy to behere with my friend and colleague barb . >> i want to echo what carol said. i found that introduction to be inspiring and important and i do a lot of speaking and i'm thrilled about your introduction and i can't think of the last time i had this sensation and connection to that introduction so thank you for having us tonight . congratulations. i really just want to start by congratulating you on producing such abeautifully written scientifically impeccable and important book . i'm going to say i'm going to quote from the first major review i've seen and it's a total raised by the way. your book is a quote,

gorgeous culmination of the professional and personal. so let's start with a basic question which is why did you write this book and why you saw the need to help clarify the role of hormones in chasing we are ? >> i'm going to start way back because i think it's important for people to understand that how people got to the positions that therein. so i'm used to that because i teach my students sometimes are nervous about how they're going to get what you go all what i always say is i was at the bottom of my-class. i'm taking you at harvard i'm not ashamed. maybe i am. i'm starting to tear up again . i had a lot of struggles as a young person and part of those struggles were i didn't

have a lot of parental oversight and i had some difficulties. i had somesexual assaults . i had a bit of a hard time in a lot of different ways . and i think that's early experience helped me to want to understand men. i think that kind of preempted that planted the seed there because i had any emotional need and sometimes that drives our intellectual curiosity. i found that to be true on fellow academics in the psychology department but i came from a place for iwasn't set up to be where i am now . it took me a long time to get to where i am . and a bunch of different twists and turns and a whole other career that was 10 years after college so i decided ultimately to apply to the harvard regiment program. and ulpart of that, i describe this in the book but part of that process involved going

to live in uganda to study, to research wild chimpanzees in western uganda and i did that for eight months. i lived basically in the jungle and followed chimps around and there was this confluence of circumstances where this is in the late 90s and there was some pretty serious political upheaval in that region of africa that i was in. there was a lot of violence all around me, very severe, disturbing violence and i was also following the chimps around . >> .. >> another time about

evolutionary biology and taking classes and integrating but i observed, without average, males were status and relatively aggressive and very very clear whether this behavior the females were taking care of her kids and much more peaceful with the mouse could also be peaceful and nurturing in the females could also be quite aggressive in an average is like in humans when there's overlap in behavior in males and females, there's a lot of overlap in the chips for these parallels were unmistakable and cannot be explained explained by culture. so that really solidified my interest in understanding thees understanding of human and just came out that from observing wild chips and became really interested in the role of testosterone because one of the biggest differences between males and females and now the

horses shaped how we are and how those biological forces interact with our human environment in our culture and how we can explain we are in our culture and how are sexual and how the culture can express our human nature and so that is kind of the along the story of how i got to harvard focusing on my phd research and testosterone in the currency differences and then i ended up really focusing on teaching a teaching in a safe harbor is where my passion is so yes, sort of my trajectory here. >> one of the things that you do so well is to communicate

complicated it really awesome conflicts scientific content in a way that is for people to metabolize and i want to start with a difficult question in a sense would you describe making observations about the role of testosterone and other hormones and biological characteristics and in shaping behavior. and you had a pushback and resistance and even that there was a relationship so i wonder if you considered what that rejection is the lengths agape looks like int terms of how people are reacting with the behavior and offer maybe one of the things that the rising concern about conducting biology in a sense to behavior.

>> is an important question i can pick upp where the top and when i started this research and found results about how testosterone shapes the way we problem solved and that there are sexual in the way that we think about biology seem to have something to do with this in the horses how they interact. and i was naïve and i did not understand how sort of heated and controversial these topics are my particular perspective was because i was literally coming out of the jungle where i was consumed with the biological perspective and when i started up, i didn't really have an appreciation for the intensity of the interaction between biology and culture that took time for me to appreciate and

understand and is an ongoing process to learn more and more about how the sources it reflected the behavior and there's always a reaction between tina and closer. so i started to feel pushback to the research that i was doing it in the interpretation might then data, look, this is incredibly important and differences in the levels of testosterone, and the evolutionary pressures natural selection particularly the sick sexual selections that act differently on male and female animals to facilitate reproduction in different ways and the malesdi and females and who have different problems that we have solve and reproduce with the female mammals have to internal gestation and is energetically accepted and were

going to be smaller animals on average in the males do not have internal gestation and they typically compete for female mating opportunities need to have more muscle and less fat to produce the maximum number of offspring that hormones help to facilitate, more fat and potentially less human aggression for human females another species and for males, something like larger body size and more muscle mass and more physical m aggression and obsession with status on average. not saying that all females like us and all males like this is loss of overlap, patterns and sent me this was such a powerful way to understand human behavior in the patterns, done a whole

lot of traveling to oakland cultures and become obsessed with explaining the differences but also thed commonality of the connected to what i had seen in the temps and nonhuman animals. i didn't really first understand where the resistance was coming from and why so many almost have this innate reference for a cultural acclamation hostility towards biological explanations because i felt so empowered that help me understand myself and the men in my life and my own from is what i had to observe in the jungle etc. there was really an education for me. >> and you're talking about

explanations that are singularly cultural. >> so there is a continuum of resistance, three scholars were very smart who completely reject biological explanation and behavior and sometimes even four bodies flinched seemingly to me, but where's other people really just want to assert differences in behavior humans are a purely the result of cultural influences but then there is i think the movement against more attention and gets taken more seriously an effort to really consistently downplay biological explanations in favor cultural ones angela opens reasons white there is that effort but my point of view is that we should be concerned with is the truth

and how to discover the alike is a beautifully articulated, power is always a part of science so there is a value to being critical about the methods we use in science there's also power that really think it really comes into play is how the science or the be used to support certain conclusions or u social agendas but potentially what could be perceived as these purposes so we need to be careful how we produce the science in my view we should be strict on the social agendas we want to understand how the world works and the question is thinking about the implications of the size we produce and what the applications are and how we can say clearly about those

implication logical ways and not for instances to assume that say i sexual difference in a cognitive development ability has a relationship to some degree in biology that means well males are aggressive because on average of the intestines and contest are from, does mean that is writer can change, there's no evidence to support that we know that diabetes, is something that is connecticut, 51 and type two comes from genetic bases of some people are much more prone to diabetes but we know that the environment plays a huge role so that is just analogy and is the same way with behavior, and have a higher predisposition than women for certain types of behavior but the gift underneath the environment and molded the expression of that behavior, so

the one to be conservative with is the behavior is often the cause was a bit and focus our judgment on the behavior and consequences not only causes, the causes week and be understanding it and address problematic behavior do it we can to improve it and our social circumstances and equality for everybody predict. >> that there should be directed at the misapplication of the science is is no question, the 20th century biologist has so much evidence how that was taken and used in many many areas but your book really is an evidence-based approach to understanding the world of hormones and other biological features and behavior and we are

and wondering if you could give us a roll of taught testosterone from conception through was a puberty and brain development. >> so first of all i should say that i alluded to this before but the sexual hormones are steroids and that suchs an important thing and some hormones like insulin are proteins and some are steroids and the clothing that steroids is that they can cross through cell membranes and dancing testosterone, they dissolve get into our brains we produce a mostly in her ovaries and testes and for women the adrenal gland

is an important piece of this production but getting into her brain and shaping our behaviors clear plan important facts about ian behavior and ultimately, those hormones there not because they help us survive, say insulin blood sugar is at the home of the next about eight to regulate energy blood sugar but what it does is coordinate behavior with the energetic needs of the body so is signals to the brain but uses a different active transport, baptists and energy to get into the brain and tells the brain essentially what the energy needs of the body are in effect hunger and motivation to go get up and find food for to not get

up hundred because you have enough blood sugar in your body so there's a coordination between the energetic needs and behaviors to stay alive maintain energy levels of the sexual hormones do something similar but for reproduction known for maintaining energy before producing exit firm in coordinating the availability of eggs and sperm with the ability to make and care for mammals especially for the female are offspring. jennifer mills, motivation is more likely to competing for mating opportunities that we have the hormones coordinate the availability of the eggs and sperm the physical traits we need to have that nurturing in the competition and in the brain

to motivate the individuals to use those traits, negative muscles or lactation if you don't have motivation to use those muscles or to use those breast to figure offspring into the home runs to all of these different things by affecting how the wasted energy is been a body and muscle or fat egg production right-center and then i'll start for the males and you throw so the females don't actually need their ovaries to be n producing estrogen to devep their t reproductive anatomy nor to do anything special to the brain but the males have very high, testes and utero humans and another animal, very high levels of testosterone but masculinized the reproductive structures essentially grow the

and the associated kind of internal plumbing is setn a new front during the same. , and also acts in the brain to masculinized certain structures. for instance young male animals will be boys engage in rough-and-tumble play that seems to be crafted that males engaged and again like humans and chimps and rats so many animals in the mailan animals play the roughly4 cents competition insiders have determine how to testosterone levels can shape the brain to promote that behavior so certain euro when testosterone takes the body and brain from our production and then after birth goes up again and roster what,

stays high about three months and then stays low until prior to puberty and then goes up again and you know a lot about that because just what your most recent book that was about and there's a lot of changes that happen a course in the body and again the brain during puberty that can convert the little boy into a reproductively viable adult. when the same thing for young women during adolescence. >> what about the female brains. and i spent a lot of time with

the ground squirrels and then the females who are just in an environment with. [inaudible]. and their temperaments are going to be different. >> so, that is totally correct about the hyenas and i don't know about thepo ground squirres and i know that the males, i thought they dispersed it puberty, right pretty. >> and experimental conditions, but anyway, the point is that the female brain can be impacted by it in a way.

>> extremely low androgens or testosterone so other derivatives of testosterone that might be active like the dhd which we can talk about later which is interesting but in humans, and most other mammals, the testosterone levels in females and determine a very very low in the female brain and body's extremely sensitive androgens and there is a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia on which the gland is missing particular enzyme to produce cortisol and ifhe doesn't have an enzyme that it can produce cortisol in overstimulated and produces a lot of indigence and they act on the female brain in utero in ways that results in higher levels of play behavior in this june human and non- human

animals predict is an extremely important time for differentiating but what's interesting is for typical female behavior and a lot of that is nonhuman animal where something like sexual behavior and and aggressive behavior is very strongly. so the research is not the same in humans because our behavior is not a strong can we have so much overlap in the sexual and aggressive behaviors but we do know from these conditions in which exposure in the females deviates from what is typical an increase thatt we have some masculine behavior the process into adulthood even if it is corrected upper than the testosterone levels are

normalized upper and i should just mentioned that the anatomy can be masculine so that the girls can be born with an enlarged glitters that can reasonable of there is an argument that it is a genitalia on the knowledge of the masculinized genitalia that is responsible for the behavior solicit a counter argument to the idea acting directly to the brain with evidence counter to all the other evidence that we have not a good explanation for why especially when the girls have surgery to change their cleverness into something more typical and there's no value judgment there because it is big

controversy whether you should surgically alter genitalia a typical but even with girls i have a surgery the argument is that some attention is paid to it that there behavior becomes masculinized. but the simplest way to understand the evidence because we have all ofth this other evidence out shows very clearly that increased does increase masculinity. typical female, will express typical female behavior when exposed to estrogen in adolescence and males in order to show typical male behavior need to have an early exposure and have the pivotal exposure to high levels of testosterone to show typical male behavior.

>> to what extent with the typical behavior of rough-and-tumble, that it actually creates hormonal response. >> so probably in the kids was probably no effect because the testosterone levels are so low that point i love the question. because it illustrates that really important relationship that we see during and after adolescence and really the only thing in males that not just the testosterone is behavior and molding it if the behavior in the social environment in particular alters testosterone levels but generally in a moment so in the face of threat or competition which could be considered in some sense making

competition, there is robust evidence that when men compete, the reaction to the competition can predict whether testosterone goes up or down and conditions and future behavior in ways that are adapted for the individual in a given environment personality and social system. >> so were talking about developmentally in the age which brains would say, into a little bit of a conversation about puberty blockers and ignore young people are identifying binary and this is a complicated area and i'm wondering if you can share your thoughts about your work. >> and so for the book, i dove

into the information on puberty blockers and the effects of altering testosterone levels as part as a gender transition so i have an with the scientific literature says but i also viewed a male to female transgender person and vice versa when it young binary person who was just had started taking puberty blockers and someone who had transition a female to male them back to female to use their words to describe your w experience play interesting late they were very consistent with a tight scientific literature had to say. the puberty blockers is so controversial right now and

seated my perspective on we needed weight way more research so we should just say that if you exclude the - people i spoke with were very happy very very happy with her transitions and the male to female transition with her and a good example because she went through a male qb, she is a 6-foot 4-inch large woman, but because she went through a typical male pewter under puberty when she wishes feet sheep were quite so tall, difficult for her to join voice therapy and i think she would

prefer not to have a masculine voice and she has a female identity self to me is completely understandable that somebody u.s. gender dysphoria who wishes to transition were not part of the worst thing that could happen is to develop physical and psychological phrase because is not the one he feels yourself to be so i want to start out by saying that i understand the intense desire to put a halt to that but my concern is that we don't have enough really good science and what the long-term outcomes are physically and emotionally is a controversial area because people want to be validated butb some of the people want to be validated our youngest kids

senate is true that gender can be fluid at that age and puberty is a time when a lot of young people come to discover who they are sexual and they change their identities in various ways to balking at opportunity i'm not placing a value judgment but i do know the evidence and i do know that is an opportunity for people to sometimes come to terms that they might be gay that's what he felt so intensely uncomfortable in the bodies because they haven't felt they felt very different from the other kids of their same and again like i said, it is completely i think valid and understandable for people who want to block that phase and thank you so right for some people i don't know they are and i don't know how we figure that

out but it can be righteous but ci wish we had more evidence ad i was like a 12 -year-old kid could say, yeah am fine with losing my fertility that's my biggest worry is that is a long term a reversible consequence and if you don't allow your own reproductive system to mature, you lose the ability to have kids inn the future. that's a huge decision for a young person d to make. ...

>> alerting the reader to the perils of what can happen and how things can get. it can be used again with someone who has an agenda like this. but the point is we should be very frightened of that and not frightened of something else. >> my goal is to forgive people and to give people all the evidence that is available so that they have all the evidence that is available to help them make these really difficult decisions. i mean, that is what i believe is important and in that include respecting their ability in a way is making theirau decisions. >> it is there in just a few

weeks. we are going to look the emphasis. [inaudible] and so here, can you give us a way of thinking about this topic. having a conversation, crustaceans that are rooted in science. >> thank you. so this is something that i do get varies pacific about because it's difficult to talk about. because people like this, a trans woman who is competing in the olympics, not breaking any rules. and i just find this very painful. people are calling her a cheater. i would like to make it clear that she is not. and it's not cheating that the evidence suggests, yes, she does

have a physical advantage because she went through a typical male puberty with high testosterone and on average i don't know if she herself as an advantage, but trans women who went through puberty will tend to be bigger and stronger even if they suppress testosterone or even up to eight years that we have. of course, the size and strength, besides benefit in terms of height, muscle mass, going down, but it doesn't go down to anywhere near what would be typical. other physical advantages, however, first of all i think that there is an important human rights issue that deserves to be heard and it is extremely

important. sorry. part of this is really emotional because i do see the science of providing the information, people aren't arguing about it and are not listening to this and we have to understand where these women are coming from and what it is like to identify as a woman and should not be allowed to play in the women's category and be called a cheater. that is wrong. it is just wrong. i do get annoyed when people try to use twist around the science to really push the agenda that people like laura should be able to compete on the women's team because it causes people who could otherwise listen to kind of shut down and feel like you are not telling n the truth and

you are twisting the science, you're trying to pull one over on me and things like that. and i do not think that that is a good strategy. it's like okay, look, we can grant the science point that there is an advantage but let's focus now our energy will compassionately andbu with respt to the case of women who have been given the right compete for noww on this and what do we do about this. is there a physical advantage on average. and is there a way to somehow equalize that, you know, we need to have the conversation and not some stigmatize of people who want to do what they love. it bothers me so much and it's painful for a lot of people. i'm not happy at how that conversation is going on are going as the case may be.

>> it is topical and in terms of the components of the physicality and how the ability is in kind of the idea o of devoting, it is complicated and there is a contradiction in the world of sport. >> yes, i mean, there is a reason there. there is male and female categories, but yes to more than that there is huge amount of variations not altered artwork some excellent thinking about thisand also going back too a teacher, some going above and beyond, some 18 to 22 years old.

and i wonder how it is to shape the behavior and parents and others also chime in on this. >> yes, i have a 12-year-old son. he is sick of hearing about testosterone. but i feel strongly that he should understand what it is going to be doing to his body and his brain and think that he might be feeling or wanting and this is where i think that the information is tremendously useful and he might of the other girls, young women come i'm not sure what will be called in a couple or few years, they could be wanting in feeling the same thing that he is and they're

probably not on average than they have different desires and needs on average and i think it is important to understand how that works. and it's not just w because of culture, it's part of our nature and i want him to be sensitive to that and what he's feeling and where it's coming from and i'm pretty sure he's going to be a part of that. but the testosterone will change that in ways that i wanted to be prepared for. >> basically what we are teaching as part of this. >> yes. they are figuring it out, figuring it out the elves and they ares so curious and i am open with them. i will do with them kind of what i'm doing here as well and if they disagree i love it and i

want them to disagree and we want to look at the evidence together. maybe they do not agree with my interpretation. let's dig into it. it is so satisfying. i have learned so much, they have learned so much and for these things is critical thinking and it's not just me telling them how the world is this what you think and what are you bringing and how does that bear upon how we understand that. let's do the best job we can using the tools to understand the world and implications. >> i have a dirty with them and i know they have similar experiences. they are open-mindedilil and cus

>> when you are hearing about this, the information that is a topic in a sense it was very disturbing, it was about sexual coercion and things like that. and the professor was in that class and he gave you piece of advice was part of the foundation of yourr book. which is what is the evidence and how does that evidence coincide and that is where it is >> and i just think it will be helpful because i know that what

it is like to want something to be true and i know what it's like for a certain scientific explanation be invalidating and i think it was my second year and we were reading a paper and discussing it on the evolution of race and i can't even say this with a straight face it was stated explicitly by the offer which is that they as are larger than females as humans, they would just turn them down and read them before. i had a six history with sexual assault and i'm doing what i did

in the class what i'm doing right now. i was shaking and her and i felt small and i said this guy is a [bleep] and of course this can be true. he is a [bleep] for even writing this paper and its what are you doing, that is crazy. >> eventually i did, and i did find that very empowering that i could analyze this hypothesis and it could be t right. the guy could be that, but it's a separate point. and if so, i really want to knoh

about it but i really want to understand it. the macro somewhere else and we need that information in it is important that is a lesson that assured my students every year that i've got to put that aside and evaluate the evidence is not necessarily generalizable.

[inaudible] and that is partly productive. [inaudible] and it is kind of an over generalization. and so in the moment i'm going to pass that on but what you are describing is that there is an opportunity for us in a responsible and software not on.

[inaudible] and i know that your goal is to open up and to turn the lights on and to move to a positive agenda. with that, congratulations and i'm going to pass that back over. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. i want to let folks know that this is also part of it, so if

you are interested in the connection between humans and animals, check it out, it's a very clear book. the other book is currently on backorder and so just keepp on trying to at the bottom of the screen when i want to see if there any others and that includes anything like that. >> yes, there is, but so far we have very much the good audience. >> i think barb is ready to take some questions.

>> did you have any questions? >> i think that my main question always comes back into the human variation in sports at how sports is designed in this way, really celebrating people and the perils of distribution because that is how you win a scoring when it comes to trans people who have, they are often punished. and i think that that is something that i need to get my head around and someone i could say a little bit more. because it seems particularly in this tradition who has higher

levels of process drone than some others and yeah, that is part of it in nature like the giant flipper hands of michael phelps. you know, so that is something that is often a part of it. >> part of this and some of these issues is that the way that the scientists had communicated via journalism is not responsible in my view. it is biased and i think that a lot of people are not getting the correct information for one thing, and of course there are so many different views on whether sports should even be segregated in that way in the first place. so my only real contribution here is the changes that have beenes in puberty and how those strength had changed if you just

look at males and females there is no contest in most sports. the females would never have a chance at the elite level, not counting like golfing in archery and some other things like auto racing. but females, the elite females even in the olympics. i can't exactly, beaten by the high school boys. so it's not about variation but on a different level. so that's just thinking about differences and then there is this area about women and to what extent they have handled that and the evidence suggests that there's not a lot. if you have gone through a

typical male puberty, you are going to retain a lot of the very significant advantages to s much larger expense than the differences on a spectrum, basically and not on a qualitative situation. the case of the differences of development is very controversial and here i don't even like to step into it because i don't want to hear this and most of these cases that come up in the news, described as women have naturally high testosterone and they havee gone through a home testosterone typical male puberty. that is it is a

very confusing situation. so it's tough because you really just want to respect people's identities, but then you're making policies that should be informed by science and that should be part of the conversation we should be dealing with and many people are just reading this, saying that it's just like michael phelps and it's not quite like that it's not quite that simple. other than to say that i do think that if we are going tothe having that conversation with sensitivity and compassion. >> of people want to find the data themselves, you recommend a peep will go.

[inaudible] >> the bibliography is certainly part of that. >> these are the notes, like it says, it's a well researched and kind of rigorous thing and it's a narrative and that was my goal, artifacts and how can we work with the facts these sensitive and as caring as possible. and i am super passionate about the goals that i think you understand, especially for people that are suffering the most and that is the ultimate

goal in the way to do that is to acknowledge that's never a good idea to misrepresent these facts and it is disrespectful to people in my view. >> we do have an audience question. do you have any suggestions on thiss, relationships across the gender gaps between men and women. >> yes, i just wrote about this, actually, and i had talked about it in the boston globe and of art he cried like three times, and very emotional about this. it's hard for me and it's embarrassing and my husband is a british philosopher who barbed

nose is very stable and there's not a lot going on there according to him. this is a problem for me. because you're british, what happened to you, how come you don't know what is going on inside you. were you thinking. and it's just like lots of the, thinking about nothing i now and we had therapy, it did not change. and i i changed after writing ts book because the big bang was the trans people that i interviewed and am looking at the literature, they change their emotional expression. i don't know if you had the same experience or not. if you went to cry when the news

got crying, someone that just doesn't have the same range of emotions, that is what i learned in its likenesses who i am and i'm kind of being a jerk and i should be always me, i should not be like that, a leaky fossett person. so it's not like a feminist viewpoint, i guess that he's a great person and i was not accepting that he should be more like me. and it's not like what is the matter with you. >> i'm more into science now. i'm very clear that my brain operates very differently than i did before and after a transition period and the main thing is that whenfe my brain ws a parth of this site i can hold

information areas now my brain is more like a two-lane road. and part of it is you do this thing in front of you in on the next thing and then the next thing. and i forget that that's why a lot of individuals are very shortsighted. but the capacity to hold more. >> do you feel more short-term goal oriented? >> yes, i do. >> i work with them. and i'm capacious with all of those things and that includes

what needs to be happening next and that includes taking information into a roomful of people. that includes communication as well and that has been the biggest shift of all for me. >> i would also recommend the crying book and explains the role of tears. >> i am really on the end there, there's not a whole lot there. >> it's a memoir of vague creative nonfiction book. >> was a cog in? >> it is about a woman is a

woman who considers herself to be a hyper crier. so i found those of others wanted to make sure to ask if you have any other advice or rollss about it? >> what you are describing is so fascinating. and if that goes what i have practiced in madison. unlike a decade ago it was part conversation and that includes the ways in which this

goes and then it is an idea that is like this. very nonscientific. in a progressive piece of history and now we are having a conversation as well. >> speaking of that out and that note as well. >> thank you both so much. we really appreciate your humor than that as well and so i wish you both well and i hope that the rest of the book tour is great. >> it is so lovely to meet you, thank you to your audience as well. and thank you also to barbed.

>> it is a fantastic book and i am so impressed. >> thank you. >> yesterday i was teaching summer school and we were talking about this. >> all right, all right, have a good night. >> here is what is ahead on booktv, george gilder, artificial intelligence and the belief that ai machines will take over the planet. also michael malone with his book the big story. and then the memory thief about the effects of opioid use. and carole hooven explaining why a testosterone drives behavior.

>> weekends are an intellectual feast. we document america's stories. and then we bring you the latest in nonfiction books as well as authors. funding comes from these television companies and more. >> we are partnering to create wifi enabled listings. so students can get the tools that they need to be ready for everything. >> comcast in these television companies support c-span2 is a public service. >> some people say that artificial intelligence is going to make the human rights solution and people don't always want to think about ai and artificial intelligence, it's kind of an intimidating subject. but as you know, the thing about it is that even if you don't want to think about it, it is thinking about you. or is