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shop now or any time at c-spanshop.org. ♪♪ >> this book has environmental social factors on financial support. it is a big deal. it makes me cringe but we got to dome this. we will be discussing this and you can purchase the book. this tells the story of increasing varieties on climate change. engineering.

i was an activist, i am an activist because of the author we get to speak to today. i can't even pretend to play it cool, so is a big deal and bill, i want to hold your ears for this part. i assume this probably makes you cringe but we've got to do this. bills book will be discussing this morning, you can purchase using a by the book button, has the human game begun to play itself out? tell us increasingly rising stakes, climate change, genetic engineering or a.i. gone wrong and how they threatened the collective. in some ways, it's this 30 year leader companion to his first book, the end of nature which was the world's first book on climate change ever, he wrote it

in 1989 and he was in his 20s so fast forward a book or 16 and prolific ongoing contribution to the new yorker, bill is now the go to voice on climate change and what i think is important about this author, what i personally admire is he's not just publishing about problems in the safety of his home in vermont, he's living what he's writing, he founded the grassroots organization 350.org and has committed to, his life to putting the words he reads and writes into action so beyond this professional powerhouse, he's a human dad, a dog god, sagittarius based on wikipedia, athlete, distinguished scholar and a husband. we are in good hands for the conversation this morning, it's michael for us to leave with a sharper understanding of how big we are up against is a but also how powerful we are as a collective force so as we get

into discussion and ask questions come up, submit them in the ask the question box. bill, i think we are ready to get going, are you ready? >> it's a pleasure to be with you, as awh kind introduction, thank you for your good work and your activism. >> you make it easy. i am so excited to talk not just about this book but what the book represents more broadly so i think we've got to start from the beginning, it covers like i mentioned, some pretty heavy topics, a certain level of bravery to take on. you dedicate it to a woman who passed away i believe two years before the book was published. you say about your friend, i have this written down here, i've known a great many activists but none have had more moral force than her.

she spent herer whole life engad in her community and it was that sense of place and people who spoke throughgh her i miss that voice so much. we all hear its echo as long as we are engaged in this. can you tell us about her and how her work influenced this book? >> it's very kind for you to bring her up, shehe is someone i think about almost daily. when we started 350.org, it was the first iteration of a global climate movement, now there's lots of other help, the sunrise movement, extinction rebellion and the wonderful young people. when we started, we were just reaching out around the world trying to find people who wanted to takers on this fight which seemed 50 years ago pretty hopeless. one of the places we immediately

started discovering amazing allies were in the most vulnerable places on the earth, ctsmall islands, especially in e south pacific that may well disappear before this century is out, marshall islands, places like that. she took itha upon herself to be this organizer of so many of these island communities and they call themselves climate warriors. in my head, i have a remarkable picture, she had organized people on these islands to build a traditional war canoe and they took them to australia not that

far away and not part of the world and they used them for a day to blockade the harbor at newcastle which is the biggest coal port in the world, more coal goes through than any other place in the planet. the coal as it burns, raises the temperature of the planet melting the ice caps and drowned the island nations. one of the great iconic images are these people in tiny canoes stopping progress of the biggest warships in the world, she was markable and it lives on in the south pacific, pacific climate warriors are still going strong and doing great work. >> you touched on a lot there i think we will get to eventually but i love this idea you bring up often, this is hard work and

it can be daunting and lonely and that's why having community and friends you look up to and do this work with is so important so i'm grateful to have learned more about her through your dedication to her. now that we have a sense of who the book was dedicated to, i'd like to ask you, reclined back, i think it was published in april 2019. >> a world ago. [laughter] >> few things had happened since then and we can definitely hit on that but even before that, i don't know when you start writing the book but i'm curious who you imagined reading it and who you saw taking what falter

outlines and putting it into action and how they might differ or not, from your previous i think 16 books. >> i think most serious writers basically spend their lives writing one book, different chapters involved. this is in part going back 30 years in my life, when i first started doing this in my 20s, i have no idea i would do anything more than right. i didn't think of myself as an activist or anything and over the last 15 years, it's changed a lot. i've probably spent more time now, it's hard to draw the line

so falter kind of brings the story up to date in a lot of ways but one thing that reflects on in the last quarter is the kind of history of activism and how it really is a potent tool, i call it a technology to allow us to deal with just as we needed technologyy like the solr panel to allow us to make electricity from the power of the sun, so we needed a technology that allowed the small and many to stand up to the mighty into the few. people like gandhi and suffragists and doctor king and a million others whose names we don't know as well gave us those tools in the 20th century and now we need to figure out very

quickly how to bring them to bear on the 21st because an awful lot is on the line including the ability of human civilizations to keep going. we are facing existential crises, the likes of which we haven't faced before but the battle is not over so there's a lot of work to be done. >> i think in any other year, it would be okay to avoid talking about x essential crisis but in the last 12 months, 12 plus months, there's no way around it. you probably get this question all the time, i think all leaders are being asked to contextualize their work under the umbrella that was 2020, we

experienced global pandemic, long overdue racial reckoning and mentioned earlier, i'm in texas, i saw climate change march through this year end shut down our state and put a lot of people at risk so it's here with us. perhaps more clearly than previous years and i am curious if you could go back and write another chapter in falter about this year, obviously a lot was written on the wall so to speak but what about this year has changed how you think about the content of this book? >> i think to confirm the understanding of people, talking and working on these issues for a long time, 2020 was a

remarkable year, it was among other things, the hardest year we've ever recorded in human history, that's not what we remember it for because there will soon be other years that passed it but 2020 was the year of the pandemic and that should have taught us a few things, reminded us of the few things and one is of course physical reality is real, i've spent 30 years trying with varying degrees of success to convince people chemistry and physics are real and they don't negotiate or compromise, we have to follow their dictates. the pandemic was a reminder biology works the same way. didn't do any good our president told us it would go away or whatever, he wasn't in charge,

the microbe was in charge of it says stand 6 feet apart and wear a mask than stand 6 feet apart and wear a mask. it is the authority. one of the corollaries is that when you are dealing with physical reality, sometimes speed is important, our systems are not geared for speed and we learned the cost of that, i think probably one of thehe this historians when they write about the pandemic, was that the u.s. and south korea had their first case of coronavirus on the same date in january 2020. the south koreans went right to work, everybody got a mask when they started testing g everybod, it's not like they avoided the whole thing but fewer people died in south korea in the course of a year and we had in the course of a day at the height of the cases in this

country. our president said it would go away by easter, not to worry, not a big deal and did nothing. therefore, we were unable to flatten the virus curve before things got completely out of control. the same substitute for february and march in the pandemic, substitute the last 30 years in the climate shortage despite clear warnings from scientists, we ignored it and pretended it would go away and we didn't have to deal with it, we didn't flatten the curve so now have to do an insane amount of work in a short amount of time, that's what happens when you get behind a curve. the third thing, based may be most important thing, this goes to the questionsli about george floyd, the pandemic was a reminder human solidarity matters. i'm old enough my political life largely has been spent in the

shadow of ronald reagan who changed our politics in this country. his basic understanding was markets solve all problems. government was a problem not a solution, his famous last line in his speeches was the ninth scariest words in the english language are i'm from the government and here to help. ha ha, it turns out the scariest words in the english-language are we've run out of ventilators or the hillside behind your house is caught on fire these are not problems you call on market forces to solve, you call on the fire department the hospital to solve and those are reflections of our ability to work together as human beings, having an effective bond that we call governments allowing

government to allow us to deal witht . that was only heightened by watching what played out over the spring and summer in the streets of minneapolis and so much else of the rest of the country. george floyd, anybody said in 2020, what george floyd said i can't breathe because being able is thethe pretty much definition of being alive human being and you can't breathe because there's a racist cop kneeling on yourat neck or you can't breathe as activists were pointing out because there's a coal or gas fire power plant down the road and it's always the same road. african-americans have three times asthma rate of white

americans not because of any difference in physiology but because of the difference in geography. you can't breathe because wildfires have gone so terrible the governor of your state in california or oregon or washington told you to go inside and stay inside and tape windows shut so none of the particulate make their way into your house and destroy your lungs. you can't breathe because it's simply gone to hot. we set a new all-time record for the highest temperature ever observed on this planet last summer in california that reached 130 degrees fahrenheit. that's right at the upper limit the human body's ability to survive even for a few hours at the computer modeling makes it clear that will cover wide swaths of the planet by the middle of the century unless we get climate change under control

very fast. so in the end, all of this is a stark reminder that we live in a world in which we are not a master in, our way of dealing with that has to be to figure out how to draw together effectively, how to deal with questions around justice so we are not just a collection of individuals but working in society, a working civilization. >> i think that us well put. you bring up two areas i think falter does hit on but it sounds like after having lived through this last year top of mind, inclusivity and working toward justice and urgency, i am personally often torn on how to

hold those two things at once in the same breath. i want to start with urgency because i think between the two it's a little easier. recently you had a back-and-forth with another bill, bill gates who has a slightly different view on the climate crisis, there's a lot of shared knowledge there but let's call it a nuanced approach for the psaki of today, i think gates offers something alluring to folks who find their beliefs to be black of a better word, moderate who don't like climate change, they believe in climate change but they also might sign find something like the green new deal to be too aggressive, too radical. i wonder how you think about the role that neutrality, not of the carbon kind but where you stand maybe on the sidelines, how does

that play into addressing climate change and the shrinking of the board as you put in your book? >> that's a really good question. human beings and human institutions change best when they change slowly and gradually. that's just the truth, it's less expensive, less traumatic, less divisive so the best way to deal with climate change would be to deal with it slowly. the kind of cultural technological on 30

years down the road where we need to be. we come back and fight again a few years later or whatever, that's how compromising our system is. the shorthand is the fossil fuel industry leading aches effective campaign, disinformation that paralyzed political life so now we have to change very fast because the basic dynamic here is not our usual political dynamic which isl different in which people are arguing with each other and reaching a compromise. i think people should get a good wage for their job, you think $7

an hour is fine, we meet in the middle at 15 and come back and find out again a few years later or whatever, that's how compromise in our system works. our problem is basic conflict here is between humans and physics. since physics is compromised, it becomes our job. the scientists have told us how fast we need to work. in 2018, inner government panel climate change, international group of scientists the world means on for their analysis of this greatest of challenges published their support and it said if we had until 2030 to fundamentally transform systems, which they defined as cutting emissions in half and if we did

not meet that target by 2030, the prospects for meeting the targets we've set in paris five years ago are no. that is the deadline, almost literally a deadline. in the face of that, like it or not, we have to move very fast. the good news is that along with the activists, the engineers have done their job over the last decade and dropped the price of solar power and wind power, it's the cheapest power on earth. the battery sport are coming just as fast. that means if wefa want to move fast, we really can't but that means being willing to grapple with the interest, the fossil

fuel industry who wants to keep its business model a little longer. if i have a problem with people like gates, it sometimes they don't want to engage in the work that standing up this power. multibillionaire, i probably won't want to stand up to power either. so all of his technological fights, what we are going to do 30 and 40 years down the road are great. we may well need them, we only need them if we do the work in the next ten years of dramatically deploying the technology we have now, solar panels and windd turbines so effectively we keep the fight alive. we can't win the climate fight in thehe next ten years, it's

going to take a lifetime. but we could use the climate fight in the next ten years if we don't do what we need to do, we go past a certain tipping points eventually and passed the tipping points, prospect for recovery is limited. nobody has a plan for refreezing the arctic once it'snd melted. though the arctic may seem like it's a ways away, it's one of the three or four against physical features on earth, we think the reason texas froze in february was because so much of the arctic has melted, the jet stream now works in strange ways that allows the collapse of the polar vortex and quick intrusion of air that should be over the arctic down across the lower 48 so we are messing with huge

forces and unfortunately, we need to move faster. than any of us find convenient or politically comfortable but it's not up to us, it's up to physics so we best learn to deal with it. >> it's not up to us but also relies on us. i think i'm not alone in feeling overwhelmed by the problems sometimes. my top two favorite lines in your book i'm going to read, it hits on this tension between needing people to act and look squarely at the reality of the situation and also needing folks

to stay associated and connected and not shut down so you say in reference to the fossil fuel industry, let anyone do what they want is a flawed argument that no one can stop them in any way is an inferior rating one. an system, no matter what you do is the response of people who don't want to be bothered trying to stop it and i've heard it too often to take it entirely seriously. when investigative reporters prove they can know all about global warming covid up the knowledge, plenty of people on the left told me in one form or another, of course they did or all corporations lie or nothing will ever happen to them anyway, this knowing asceticism is no threat to the axons of the world, it's a gift. we don't yet precisely no how it will end, only giving them a pass because there power makes no sense.

this really lands forpl me in a few different ways but the part i want to pull out is this idea of people in patterns and have cynicism can be a self defense mechanism a lot of us need to wake up and do our jobs and be with our families and do the things we need to. breaking a pattern ultimately comes down to changing the mind. i'm b wondering if in your 30 ps years doing this work, if your mind has been changed on something regarding climate change, if someone has reached you in a surprising way and what it looks like so maybe we can apply it compassionately to folks, we really need to show up and not resigned. >> lots of things we learn over time and resulting hopes being a

little dashed, if there was a time when people thought natural gas would be a good cringe to the future it turned out it wasn't in scientific reasons was more problems than solutions, we have to recalibrate and go forward. sometimes the surprises are good ones. we were going to have to -- the thing that made it difficult was that there might be no way short of just shutting down an awful lot of what humans did in order to deal with this. it's seen things like solar power and wind power frivolous

on the edge not capable of taking up real slack in the system.o about that we turn out to be wrong. the great human capacity for engineering asserted itself and people figured out how to tilt this stuff in ways that were cheap and powerful. we now have access to vast amounts of cleanhi energy. the irony is we have to -- if we just wait for the economics of it, eventually we will run the world on solar and wind because it's free. seventy-five years from now, that's what we run on but if it takes 75 years to get there with

the broken world it runs on, our job is to force the spring as it works, make the politics, make it happen faster than otherwise would and its political challenges. for me, the biggest single c change over 30 years of working on this, is the understanding we are going to have to engage in that political work. i've spent ten or 15 years after writing, just writing more books and giving talks and closing on things because i've assumed incorrectly we were in an argument and once we piled up enough evidence and won the argument our leaders would act because why wouldn't we? is the worst problem we've ever faced, why wouldn't you take action? it took me too long to figure

out. the science was entirely clear. we are losing the fight because the fight wasn't about data, money and power the fossil fuel industry had so much money and power that it didn't matter they were losing the argument, you are still winning the fight. you have a sense of the extraordinary power even if you years ago so that's why doing all of this because it eventually dawned on me going to need power to the fossil fuel industry, it's going to come from money, we don't have a lot

of money but that's why the history of activism is so interesting, it indicates from time to time if you can assemble human beings that they are sheer numbers and creativity and willingness to sacrifice and things, it adds up to political prior power in its own right so that's what people have beene doing. >> i'll add, one shouldn't really have to do this in a rational world. i've been to jail doesn't times, it's absurd. why would anybody have to go to jail in order to make governments pay attention to scienced? but that is the world we live in, it's not entirely rational so you have to figure out how to work and it and i'm sorry i didn't figure out sooner.

>> i think your points about we've won the argument, we will haven't won the fight, it sounds similar to we got it, we got the question right but we haven't figured outer how to turn it ino a solution. i think one area, this is just my perspective, you've been out this much longer but one area where the climate movement has growth opportunities is around inclusivity and centering the voices ofd folks both impacted y climate change and things like a.i. and genetic engineering and the books that have done good work that doesn't quite get the spotlight the way greta might for example so i am wondering from your perspective, if you

would cosign that sentiment and if so, where are the areas we need to do a better job being inclusive and which voices do we need to do a better job at centering? >> i think you are right, i've been told environmentalism was something rich white people did into it if you didn't know where your next meal was coming from, he wouldn't be an environmentalist because you have more important things to worry about and on and on. for me, that understanding shifted dramatically in our first big day of action in 2009350.org. we've been working about a year, myself and college students and we did this international day of action and it turned into probably because of beginners luck, a big thank we managed to coordinate 5200 simultaneous demonstrations in a 181

countrieshe, cnn said it was the most widespread political action in i history, a first coming-out party for the climate movement but we ask everybody to upload pictures of their events is my job is to be wondering as they came starting up again, rented billboards at the end of times squarehe normally showing whisky ads, we were flashing pictures instead. they are coming in, ten or 20 minutes from around the world. througher or one after another. watching those, it took about a half an hour to realize the idea that it was affluent white people was simply incorrect, most of the people we were working with were poor, black and brown, asian and young

because that's what most of the world is. by far awayiv most of the worl is. people were exactly worried about the future in those places, maybe more because the future bears down harder on you, the poor and more vulnerable you are against the law of global warming, the less you cause it, the sooner and harder you get hit so it's entirely good useful appropriate people like karate are at the forefront of this work. frontline communities, vulnerable communities have been the vanguard of activism now in recent years, let me give a particular shot out to

indigenous peoples around the world, not a large percentage of the world population but in this case and manye other cases, they are punching way above their weight as we used to say. people saw standing rock and it occurred to us the emergence of indigenousri leadership on this continent. it didn't surprise me because many of those people are people i've been working with for years and i know them to be the best activists around but the same is true around the world and the pacific, latin america, aboriginal communities in australia and new zealand, just about everywhere. i think it's important for a couple of reasons. one is when we exiled indigenous

people from the places where they work and put them on reservations and things, we thought we were giving them worthless land but it turns out it sits on top of a lot of coal or gas oil, the court orders you would need to get, there's lot practical power people are use of wisely. dakota access and line three in minnesota and things make clear but in a deeper sense, it's a powerful moment to see the oldest wisdom traditions on the planet and newest wisdom traditions on the planet sinking up. the view from the sweat lodge and from the satellite and supercomputers seem in sync to me. if the rest of us from

conventional wisdom in the world we are going to keep growing the size of our economies and having more stuff, it's essentially wrong and we need to think more deeply. to me, it's a t very powerful moment with ancient wisdom traditions and learning new ones, coinciding so it's a pleasure to watch these moments when elders from native communities and great scientists and things are together on the same stage or jail cell, it's a powerful moment. >> i think you have done a really good job in your career as far as i can tell, re- centering voices have been doing this voice for a long time and impacted by this work but have always i received the credit or lip service for doing it so i couldn't agree more if these folks at the heart of the

movement. >> i get to do this newsletter every week for the new yorker on the thymic crisis, it's a letter that a lot of people read and the part i like is this interview section called passing the mic and i think i've managed to do it a couple of years withoutbu, without interviewing any other white guys because there are an extraordinary numbers of powerful interesting richhi voices and help us see a lot more interesting corners and we've noticed in the past. that is useful. it's going to be a very close call to make it out of the cul-de-sac we are in now as a civilization if we do make it up. if we do, it will because we managed to get it working,

everybody working in the same direction. we haven't been good as a society and it's one thing that changes fast. solar power is useful, broad people power is at least as useful. >> i definitely want to make sure wet hit on the idea of passing the mic specifically with your transition in the movement you helped move, it's an interesting model for a lot of leaders to think about cultivating the next generation of talent that can help uplift these ideas maybe older generations helped lead but before we get there, i want to close out this idea in inclusivity, something for lack of a better word, was bad at for a while,in understanding nuanced

within the propositions of a just transition, the understanding the folks at work in the coal mines on the oil wells are being paid right now more competitively than renewable opportunities which you can be pointing fingers why that's happening but taking a step back looking at what seems to me to be a bit of classism within the environmental movement and i think there is definitely a way to thread it but can you help us understand what some of the tensions are and how you have improved navigating it over the years? >> no fault of their own growing up working in industries that are dangerous to the planet,

shouldn't bear the brunt, oil fuel workers are different from oil executives, they knew very well what they were doing and i hope contemplating the pop-up they might end up in a jail cell sometime for what they've done but that is not true, just the opposite of people who don't perfectly honorable work over the years and now as we have to transition away from that, we have to figure out how to make their lives work going forward and it's one of the best things about the green new deal that young people have proposed and they have made its way into the infrastructure, they have to because it's right and because

of if necessary, people like senator manchin of west virginia and represents more of the coal miners then anybody else and he's in a position to make sure if they are young, we can retrain to do something else and if they are not, they can retire with dignity. it's a perfectly good bargain to make, it is within our economic ability to do it and should be one of the first things to focus on so i am grateful to people like aoc and joe biden on precisely that issue. >> that is helpful, thank you. i see some questions coming in and we will just hit on one or

two more ideas before we turn over to the folks with us at home and online, clearly interesting ideas and thoughts for your but i have to name the fact that a big part of this book is about a.i. i haven't really asked you any questions about it because as you said, it is a scary overwhelming topic that's not as straightforward as climate change and climate change is pretty complex, straightforward. you have to figure out where to start, when i was 18 or 19, how toot act on climate change, can you help me now at age 30 figure out how to act on some of the threats you bring up in your book about a.i.? >> i think they are kind of in

the same category climate change was 30 years agos when i was yr age. we can see them on the horizon as potentially overwhelming threats and would be smart to have the conversation about them ieright now, not 30 years from w and one of the first things we can and should do is at least make sure the forces behind them are not so powerful they can't be checked in any way which means taking on silicon valley and whose power has grown unchecked in recent years and forget a.i., doing insane amount of damage already with things like algorithms that run what you see in your facebook feed

and are devoted to making you angrier and crazier with every passing day and doing it effectively so breaking the power, when we get concentrations of power to large in the hands of exxon or marc zuckerberg, it's a good idea to lessen the power quickly before it overwhelms society ability to cope and if it's possible facebook has already jumped past where it can be controlled but i'm glad to finally see people in power beginning to ask real and important questions. so i think for a moment it's really important just to be talking about questions around a.i. and o human genetic engineering and saying until we have reached some social consensus on these thingss, lets not take steps that take us

irrevocably past places we can treat from because they do represent enormous challenges and they really do have the possibility of reordering what it means to be human and they are big enough questions we should think first. thinking is something humans are theoretically good at, it's what set us apart and it might be a good idea to do it once in a while. >> in that same section of the book, you talk about flow which is a slightly easier concept to get your arms around you and of course, albeit virtual, we are talking thanks to a i festival, without reading and book and i'm wondering if you could tell us a bit about flow and how reading might activate it in a way that scrolling is not.

>> one of the reasons i write is trying to write about humans at their best and one thing we have come to understand, the work of really important thinkers and researchers is thatit humans are at their best when they enter into a state of absorption and they got lost in whatever it is they are doing, painting paintings, climbing difficult rock faces, whatever it is. everybody who is a reader knows the feeling of becoming absorbed in a book, losing track of time, losing track of your surroundings and in some level, entering mentally into with a good writer,

seconds by the next hit of dopamine, the next light or whatever comesw through. the questions coming in, you open this book, i love this opening, you open the book by saying an author does not owe its reader hope. there is a great quote about hope without optimism, differentiating between the two. it's motivating there is still some good, change is possible. i do feel that come through in your writing, not just inhi this book but in your publications and your thought.

if it wasn't there, you probably wouldn't be so relentlessly advocating for it. i want to hear from you what it feels like. >> the best proof of my willingness the fact that i still get up every morning and work hard on this, i didn't think there was reason but i wouldn't do it, i don't have a morally complex or something. i would just sit on the porch and smoke cigars and drink whiskey and that would be fine, maybe i will reach an age where that's all i can do anyway but for the meantime, the fact that we watched over the last ten or

15 years as this has risen, it gives me enormous hope, we need to get started in the physical momentum, the systems are so large we are not going to stop climate changet but maybe we can stop it short cutting civilization off at its knees but if we can't, because enough people arise themselves and for me, all over the world, reorganizing demonstrations and accept north korea, it's always extreme to me, some of the people we are working with come from places that have literally n.done nothing. it does seem to me that it's possible for those of us who live in the belly of the beast

to get it together to do what we can so that is where i am happy to keep going. >> it is my deep sorrow show that we are coming up on time so i'm going to give you one last lightning round question from the folks at home, i think it's one i don't have the answer to and then we will close out our time together.th books are curious in this country, i'm guessing the u.s., at this time, what would be the most significant legislation to address climate change? that we should urge our government to enact? >> at this time, it's crucial to get biden's infrastructurest bil through congress. it's not going to solve the

problem but it's going to be far more than any piece of legislation federal government ever passed in the last 30 3 yes and it's a real start, a completely moderate sensible straightforward ways to address economic crisis coming out of the pandemic try to start protecting us against the next crisis muchs larger so make the phone call, make i sure your senator is willing to stand up for families and jobs in the future, it shouldn't be too hard. >> i thought you might have an answer to that one. thank you for moving an action, something we can take away from this conversation and put into place. i think what i heard today and what i said in the book is the worst thing we can do is nothing. given howow big it is up against

us, it's easier to reach for so my hope is that today when we leave this conversation recognizing what we heard from bill, two things can be true at the same time. we are a beautiful and powerful species on a beautiful and powerful planet together with got a shot at this so from the bottom of myit heart, thank you for your work and for being with us today. >> back at you, thank you for all you do and you are very good at this. this was a great pleasure this morning and i look forward to the next. ♪♪ >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing the latest nonfiction books. 8:35 p.m. eastern, their book back news, how what media

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