and courage and a bravery. but i will just say it compassion the flighttt attendants felt for their passengers who they felt responsible for. how the people inside the towers held the door for each other, helped each other down the stairs. the kids and families in canada who made apple pies and arranged to truck them to new york across the border are in iowa who set about to make a quilt for every single 911 family member. i think that is the underlying theme is the compassion that saw the light of day on september 11 and after words. >> thank you for those and

thank you all for all of the insight and perspective you have offered us today. >> you are watching american history tv, explore our nation's past every saturday on cspan2. >> good evening e and welcome to einstein's wore a program show with linda hall and the national world war i museum cultural institutions located right here in kansas city, missouri. and we areht delighted to be able to stand at the intersection of science and history and bring you great conversations like this one. now, it is my pleasure and my honor to introduce the president of linda hall library. >> thank you. weor are also pleased to present tonight the program in association with the national world war i museum and memorial. for the pastt several years are

twoo institutions of work together to present programs on a wide range of topics role played by a science in the first world war. tonight's event, einstein's wore how relativity triumphed in the vicious national of world war i discusses the effects of that war on the global scientific community and the t obstacles that one member of that community, albert einstein had to overcome. on behalf of everyone at the linda hall library, thank you for joining us this evening. and now i will turn back to introduce tonight's distinguished speaker. >> lisa thank you very much. it is truly my honor to introduce doctor matthew stanley he is a professor at the history of science at new york university. he obtained his phd from harvard. he is the author of einstein's wore how relativity triumphs

in the vicious and nationalism of world war i. the story of how pacifism and friendship led to a scientific revolution. he's also written mystic religion science and huxley's church and max was a demon which is a complex relationship between science and religion in history and potentially might favorite introductory remarks and might ten year career, she is also a host of what the fa podcast you can find on all of your streaming services. go to your streaming service of choice it is a podcast, i think you might enjoy. if you want to test it out before you start downloading that, you've got an hour ahead again, we welcome your questions. even more so we welcome you. doctor matt stanley.

>> thank you thanks to the national museum and the halt library for putting this together we are delighted to be here. i think i am supposed to say i would rather be there in person. but the people are putting into the chat it's reallyhe extraordinary going to get to talk to people from coast-to-coastco. so perhaps this will work out better than if i had actually been at the university. so we are here of course to talk about einstein. let me get my screen growing properly here. einstein know his name is synonymous with science is a

literary in the image you think of when you think of science and scientists. we want to talk about tonight the story about how that came to be. in some sense how extraordinary and unusuale it was that in the space of just a few weeks, einstein goes from being obscure academic to literally recognize all around the globe. in the aspect of story i think of particular fascinating he did not have much to do with the suddench change. it wasn't just because he was a genius. he became famous because he was in a particular place at a particular time and specifically that was in berlin during the middle of the big g war. he was a blockaded, he was starving. might not sound that's conducive to scientific revolution but there is one extra element to the story that made all the difference.

that was einstein's friend that is the whole network of people. we are going to begin the story with the einstein we all know our young poetic einstein but rather the middle age einstein. he held a couple of professorships that was the summer of 1914 he's moving back to germany for thean first time, he was born there in a southern town to a secular jewish family. he came to really dislike german forms and classroom instruction. through various experiences he became as he describes a social international switzerland a very comfortable place for him. movingng back to germany was a

matter of some emotional discomfort. i did have a difficult childhood there. but he had been sought after, recruited by some of the finest minds in science in particular because of his contributions to what will eventually become the theory of quantum mechanics. even though he's being recruited for this job, he is not yet famous. no outside physics knew his name and must be put in physicsot would not of known his name either unless their work and a very specific aspects of quantum theory. einstein waste recruited to work on the quantum theory, his baby that heha really wanted to spend his scientific time working on was his theory of relativity. the theory of relativity comes in a couple different parts. the first part is a special theory of relatively published in 19051 as the name suggests that apply to only specific

and restricted situations. i was not applicable to many different kinds of circumstances but what einsteinns wanted to do and he really did not have the time to do this even bite 1914 was crate when he called the general theory of relativity this was in an attempt to extend confusions of 19052 literally the entire to all of the conceivable situations in which one might be interested in the laws of nature. he hopes to move into this new position in berlin's very few teaching, very few administrative responsibilities. but it turns out he had been having an affair with a woman in berlin for some years. so moving to berlin with his family instead of being able to throw himself into w his science he has until some extremely rocky relationship issues.

in effect his first wife takes the children. einstein is devastated by this. very deep connection to his children. so the immediate thing he has to do is find a place to sleep. he crashes countless of the emotional wreckage eventually i & settle down. by the said was hoping to work on is his theory of general relativityty. now the idea lists four dimensional conglomeration of space and time in which we explore the universe space and

time the presence of planets and stars on the fabric of space attorney we know curve and stretch the strength things we associate twins agent different weights energy turning to matter matter trying to energy are all consequences of the green division einstein has unfortunately for ines and he discovers early on in the process of trying to develop relativity the mathematics necessary are extremely complicated. einstein was not a very good student back in college. it turns out he skipped the mathematics classes it's needed to develop this particular theory. so an extraordinary turnor of events he goes back of what he

copied so he could pass that class. who is by this time a professional mathematician to asking for help learning the mathematics he was supposed to learn back in college. as the story goes einstein open his apartment door so you must help me or i will look crazy. so he helped einstein forgot that mathematical superstructure of the theory einstein had been working on lease scientific and physical meaning of the theory. when he calls a draft version seems pretty good. in particular by the summer of 1914 yet achieved a milestone not that you just put the equation out there but it could be tested. this was an extremely important thing for any

scientific theory but particularly for einstein siri because relativity is so strange so alien to ordinary experience but need some empirical test. some say this is why we should believe my theory is right. a particular test were talking about here with three classic test this is one that is at hand in 1914. sometime called gravitational deflection. einstein siri predicts that gravity should pull not just on heavy objects but also so the path of right should be bent by gravity and the semite path is meant byy gravity as well. it's very, very tiny you need a very strange gravitational source to look at the effects.

the way to see this is if you waited for first solar eclipse and the look for a star that was supposed to be right near the edge. in the gravity of the sun will be bent by the sounds of gravity from our point of view here on earth you see what the bending looks like as a star appears to be in the wrong place in the sky. the effect is very small. so you need various observers to see it. which is rare. now fortune for einstein very soon after he arrived in berlin predicted to have occurred at the time was part of russia. and einstein acolytes is a trained astronomer who agrees to go to russia with all of

the equipment and observe the solar eclipse and try to take a photograph to prove einstein's right. at this time the total normal thing for scientists to reduce crash borders and the type of scientific projects for the something like a half dozen crews of astronomers to observe the solar eclipse not necessarily to test einstein siri. so einstein was awaiting to hear the results from this expedition. doesn't care in the slightest. einstein siri is not interest anyone but a tinyg handful of people in august of 1914 as the culmination of the political conflict. the critical tension and then of course the spark shooting

the austrian air to protest the occupation of bosnia and ace triggering war declaration and what is the beginning of world war i. no scientist to watch this happen like the rest of the world. many of the scientists hoped to be above the fray that science is an international enterprise disconnected from human things like projects and conquests. in particular as the war began the british association for advancedto scientists and many of the scientists said they declared missing a great moment for showing how scientists could rise above this war. scientists in attendance there

in astronomers and astrophysicists and professor at cambridge. also a quaker which meant he was a pacifist. he was very pleased to see at the meeting ms. international they were almost immediately bashed. in fact the one was supposed to observe was arrested as a german spy and was in a prison. intellectuals here there is a famous declaration declaring solidarity with theri german army many of einstein's fansid and mentors british scientists germans cannot be trusted to

do science. this is a very famous hh turner national rejoicing was affecting german men of science german ideas the position german scientist have been attacking each other the german nobel prize winner german scientists no longer could cite these english scientific term specifically says no german he also accuses british scientists are taking credit for german work. don't cut across the lines that scientists used to communicate data back and forth. scientific journals are

shwithdrawn british scientists work in germany and austria are arrested german scientists are detained. one in particular he is essentially the only pacifist among the science community in berlin. he joins organizations he tries to speak up against the war, he is largely ignored it because is a person of no consequence. saying i love science almost all of my fellow emotional misjudgment and consequences. week scientists in particular must foster international relations even more. unfortunately had to suffer serious disappointments even among scientists. einstein felt these issues essentially immediately.

it may be a blockade and terminate falls short on food within a week at the beginning of the war. hundreds of thousands of germans died of starvation and einstein is nearly one of them. he is starving, he is very sick he only survives because is given food packages. he loses 50 pounds in two weeks his hands or to quality cannot write for much of the time is bedridden the rights from bed in his pajamas. rights will under the blankets. he feels isolated politically and intellectually in berlin. so one of the places he looks for intellectual and social companionship they are neutral during war so he is able to go particular the three gentlemen on the right side are his

dutch friends. other internationalists with left wing politics. these are the people he discusses relativity with. he becomes essentially the only people who know about his work. it stopped scientific papers as well as it stops armaments. who on the other side of the trenches would want to hear to german scientists had to say? so his dutch friends is a gentleman in the back with a beard should really care about einstein it so happens he's peeks excellent so he sends to the society in london describing einstein so happens the secretary of society

stanley adamson. i cannot over emphasize how lucky einstein was this is because as i was suggesting few scientists were as many scientist talked about at the time. he was a pacifist andnd internationalists. international relations are absolutely critical. he was also one of the very few people in the complicated gtmathematics. it so happens they chose was both willing and able to think about einstein. and so they're excited the science and recognizes scientific significance that he like einstein is feeling isolated. there very few people within the scientific community.

they're very worried about the future of international science. he was not naïve he knew there be real-time disruptions but suggesting germans as a people could no longer be trusted seemed to him absurd and when certain lead you damage for the long term. address the modular inside german hatred. and there are practical terms turns out problems of astronomy at the lines of longitude and latitude do not care about national boundaries. there is a philosophicalhi idealistic concerns. but the conviction with the pursuit of truth in the minute structure is the bond transcending human differences.

once an segregation of science. it's fairly interesting to note he is taken the pacifist techniques used by his fellow patriots and applying specifically. strategy includes things making contacts across the trenches' better than divided. he invites his colleagues not of a symbolic journey but the german scientists lived for decades, call him a pirate a baby killer try to work up the theory and that patriotism to avoid a disaster. the grappling with issues of international, einstein appears he sees an opportunity

to be a symbol of science reaching above the chasms showing the world changing science depended on international cooperation. that perfect for this but also because since einstein was a pacifist too so einstein can be just what was needed to convince his colleagues that is relatively was lost by this kind of wartime hatred. and remember t this point we did not know who einstein was. says the next couple years popularizing it and getting excited about it but he has to do all of this without any direct communication with einstein. the blockade is still on the

cannot sent letters or telegrams back and forth. they cannot really even send letters back and forth through outhe that would look like espionage. in fact many scientists to get arrested while trying to transmit back and forth. so essentially doesn't manage to teach himself relativity. he realizes persuading people would require a physical assertion so humans could do that have been attended in 1913. and it's coming up in 1919 across the southern hemisphere. he i is not at all clear he would actually be able to with it be over? would he be able to travel? could he get his colleagues to support a complicated inexpensive expedition to test the theory? these are? all radical in 1960

when he first began the project. he does have some success. just as he was making progress convincing his colleagues to support the expedition suddenly in danger being pulled from the observatory and sent to the front to read the war by this point had killed souc many men he was conscripted. he would be a conscientious objector. conscientious objection rarely allowed status but there's guidance on what should happen to someone who does claim objection to the war. and he was essentially the only the vast majority scientists were there working on projects that were simply not fights. so essentially was unprecedented. that was going to happen to a prison camp.

i got you terrible, terrible places. conscientious objectors were spies and they died in the camps. perhaps to him more importantly to be able to continue working on einstein relativity. to justify and explain why he should bee continued to allowed to work on science. what made it difficult was getting people to understand he was a both a scientist and it seemed like a contradiction. so many members of the tribunal could use friends at dyson was the astronomer in essentially the top scientists at the time.

it was important for british scientific prestige. that is, he was allowed to do this test that would show english science is a term. did not was not allowed to do is pacifist expedition on the grounds to be good for the british empire. they've been trained to plan for the expedition. and been allowed to proceed. they mentioned they were hoping to observe across the southern hemisphere in africa and south america. also in the blockade by the i u.s. the astronomers are likely to try they had to hook the circumstances of the war would change. throughout 1918 things are going better than they had

been. in fact as it happened 1918 the german offensive had overextended itself and they cannot hold against the allies.te eventually became clear they could not win. the public was declared in berlin. and so on november 11. then einstein's journal for that day it's a very short entry. he said class was canceled because of revolution. in the collapse of the military state socialist politics with trouble during the war he writes to offend in

the opinion i could break their fall. andc in fact something of a scary place immediately after the end of the war finds himself climbing over barricades being held hostage by revolutionaries so a dramatic time after the war. is important to emphasize here the fighting had stopped einstein's stills at this point he still cannot communicate scientific allies and other countries. with the explicit intent of making things and difficult

for germany so they can get the best conditions they can. because suddenly the end of 1918 is going to take months to get to the southern hemisphere. what they could not do as any the preparations i had to endure during the war because of materials and labor needed an early march. i have it on a government grant for this which is extraordinary given the situation just in case there's a band it one of the sites. in another would be sent to

the island and off the coast of africa. their special cameras to take photographs during the eclipse. called the astro graphic they be good for capturingld both. which is a technique well established. as you get to the path that emergency observatory whenever that happens. so there on the right side and then and which job was to reflect the image of the sun

now say the hope at the end they could then compare to what it was supposed to look like. i could measure how much the graduate while actually where the predicted displacement how the star should've moved in the photographic plate is one 60th. it's about 25 more. that's less than 1000. it's a very small amount. since critics of the expedition at the time. ias cite no astronomers have sizes like that all the time. it's a perfectly normal thing for us to do.

so he looks at the mathematics of the direction we expected. he says einstein siri is a 1.75 seconds to worry about whether or not and then for comparison and normally the deflection should be about half it should be a significant amount less. the third possible as there is nothing at all. so at some point during the preparation for the expedition we are explaining these possibilities p. he's going to study the technician going along with the expedition.

given these three possibilities so they ask what if we get better? that could be even better. goesis to reply with the aspects of the expedition about the expedition when they come back a month later there be a public eager ready to hear abouty the battle between einstein. so to make it an intellectual battle. some of the first passenger ships headed south. he knows how strange it is to be outside the rationing he

admitted it was a long time before let's go guides. the >> of an island this a big mountain in the middle. somewhat ironically which is to the chocolate factory. the workers were the woods carried the equipment by hand through the jungle set them up. everything was set up not quite two weeks before. the astronomers have to be

practicing using very complicated systems they have to be able to operate essentially in the dark. this little room for error. there is no do over on this and experiment perfectly. that amplifies. years of planning, months of journeying, weeks of physically and mental separation for this is all without knowing whether the sky would be clear in fact on the day of the eclipse it started off exciting the day was not cloudy but it serves our gigantic's hoping for our

break in the clouds. the clouds remained. it only begins fivean seconds after two and at the time with the astronomers bringing out a machinelike photographer process without knowing whether the clouds or not. that describes being so focused on photography but you must watch the act. it is a marvelous spectacle above. wonderful they is 100,000-mile tooth stone. conscious of the landscape look at the cause of the observers kicking out. by the end of the eclipse 16 class of photographic colored and a box after it was required before they return to scientific data.

now and africa has to develop the photographic plates. it turns out most of them are cloudy almost a sixth of the 16 showed the stars in the original plates. spends each day since over the photographs with a special photograph making these fine measurements. in the effect he was looking for was as you said large biased astronomer standards. the measurements had to be reduced mathematically analyzed the became real data. there is an enormous amount of time. writes home to his mother

measured there is a result of hindsight and i think i've got a little information. so at some pointn in the first week of june 1919 this is three years a year after he had been freed when you einstein siri was put too the test. that calls this the greatest moment of life. despite that, cooling dyson's warning we won't have to go. this was just a matter of persuading. it would take moreh effort. this really measurements and

calculations, or calculated to be as comfortably close to einstein's prediction of 1.75. once the results were in hand of presenting the data because the royal society. with the result publicly. sends the results of the mutual friends in the telegraph einstein was delightedul and said with the results was very entertaining.

the student is full of enthusiasm how wonderful. he remarked that i knew that there was corrected your data? my answer is no of course not just that if there would've been confirmation? i had to pity our dear god. a littlee more humble about the test of his theory. how deeply and heartily thus the union between the beautiful is once. as we've said many times he personally was a beneficial of the public opinion was that the royal society. the people present at the

presentation wereab mathematicians who describes the quality and the very stage of the traditional ceremonial background picture of meetings to remind us the greatest of scientific more than two centuries to receive modification. in the podium announced no doubt confirm einstein's prediction very definite result has been obtained. with unsigned law of application. describe thehe expedition and describe the data. the president throughout the society is not a fan of

einstein, announces this is the most result connection in fabricatione . they could sustain einstein siri survived two tests in connection with the worker and the highest achievements. in the conversation among scientists there with his question with the alternative interpretation wasn presented. literally demanding they move carefully. now the next day presented the greatestst scientific headline in history revolution in science. shows the page with the reminder of the upcoming conservation. it was played einstein exactly

in terms. and remember this was the first time it was the first time women had heard of einstein he was presented as a peaceful genius who accumulated all the stereotypes. as a man of liberal tendencies, one to protest against the german manifesto men of science and their part in the war. assuming the times picked up on these rights askew in the heavens, and we know this quite clear it's the second time einstein had ever mentioned. it comes out of nowhere to the front page. : : s only the second time einstein had been men :

all he has been talking about is this theorem and the best possible thing that could have happened to germany. i do not anticipate progress. there's a -- things have turned out very well and the a lesson notes -- even in time of war but it wasn't just forge an. they worked hard to portray the scientific event from the war. einstein praises the wonderful tradition of science and they should devote their time.

he becomes famous around the world beginning what he called the relativity. everywhere he goes everybody wants to see him. this mysterious sage that it changed in recent ninth time found the whole thing. he said i'm a chairman man of science and an aunt when i must wish jewish man that i represent the descriptions and i will become a swish -- the swiss jewish man for the germans. .it's worth noting on all aspecs of einstein same was possible

picture the attention of the political right who estimates the jewish internationalists and specifically with zionism and eventually this leads to his fleeing the country and coming to the left as a refugee. his sudden ascension into scientific celebrity by displacing centuries of dominant was due to the timing and context of the war as described by earnest rutherford the scientist of the time to the war just ended in the complacency at times had been shattered and then suddenly a chairman scientists have been confirmed by astronomers and an astronomical discovery transcending strife struck a chord. einstein becomes a new scientific st. airing -- during a country tired of war. the image of einstein is a genius comes out of the

devastating here's a for its only in contrast that to einstein's triumph was so striking the scientific beauty and world a peace at a time when civilization itself seemed to be in peril. so the horrors of the war and pacifists like einstein's reaction to them towards the center could fragile networks. without this network caused by the politics of the war the theory relatively would not have happened. without the were relatively would have been one more scientific theory. without the war einstein would be one more name for bored schoolchildren to memorize. instead is known -- his name is known as an idea of an iconic personificationn and the key to that was not einstein's genius. he was einstein and his friends. thank you very much it's been a

real pleasure and you can reach out to me and i can't take questions now. feel free to f e-mail me or go o my podcast web site. >> spectacular. matt thank you so much. do please add your questions and there is a really good ones comingor in the q&a section. if you are joining us either on the linda hall library space with page or the national world war i museum and memorial facebook page please feel free to add your questions and to thatat chat. we have educators from both organizations to where they are and moderate in. the first question actually came from tim a. he asked the question how did it

come that people thought that einstein had no talent in mathematics? >> this is einstein being self-deprecating. the anecdote that i talk about him sitting in math class wasn't because he was bad at math. he just going to classes and when he describes himself as not a good mathematician he's comparing himself to literally the greatest mathematicians of the world at the time so when he is explaining why heut asked at talk to them he said i don't understand mathematics and i need your help. it's just in comparison to his friends. >> from cal water npr science friday last friday "science magazine" has a historical scene

about a barber who brings the einstein the ied of bed gravity can cause light to the curve. i know we have the opportunity to bounce out and be a sounding board for the media. science history and media all coming into one place. >> that's great. i don't know that specific reference. that said the cottage industry of any version of einstein'son predictions and that was the in 18th century. it turns out if you accept that idea there were a handful of people who make a similar prediction to the general idea that gravity can bend light and

i should say there's an important warning i want to put out here that there's a group of far right anti-semitic critics of einstein in the 1920s and 30s who use this claim to make the case that einstein plagiarized and that's not true at all. >> from benjamin davis he wanted to know what was the result of the solar eclipse study that was done in brazil? >> that's a really good question. i passed over that for a time. thee story is about two telescopes one in africa and the reallyio big one were called at the last second of during the eclipse. it produced a photograph that is really bad and the scientists

said these are not good results. what are the things you can do with this particular problem is you can sort of subtract the problem so if you do that -- and then the backup at the last second captures the absolute best picture and those are >> on with einstein's prediction. it's one of the disasters. >> i feel like in your area of expertise it's probably just full of these near disastrous moments. one of our participants wants to know was einstein himself qualified to carry out this type

of test? >> this is a really good question and the answer is no. this is a distinction that is outside of science that einstein is a theorist. he's good at equationshi and ids and in making predictions. he wasn't good at doing the observation and doing the testi. he has a different skill set and the things he realizes he asked to do is to find someone qualified to proveio it. a trained astronomer who agrees to go to russia with a crew to do the test he had to find someone qualified to do the tests.

>> a very specific question from guy raider. you spoke about a mayor that tracks the stars movement via a clockwork mechanism during the eclipse expedition. could you share more about the relationship between a drummer's and clockmaker's? >> that's a great question. it so happens that physicists knew the clock makers until the 20th century because clock makersha are the people who can make a precise instrument particularly a robust instrument that can survive movement to brazil. so what typically happened is

they have advanced degrees that they don't necessarily have the hands-on skills to operate machinery so one of the the -- at the observatory last operate the equipment in a way that the people with fancy degrees cam. there's an t interesting intersection of that vin diagram because he was trained as a physicist, as anhe astronomer ad his first job out of college he was an assistant at the royal observatory so he does learn to operate the machines that diet -- dyson or einstein never tempted. >> after the 1919 eclipse expedition what were the divisions in the international physics community with respect accepting einstein's general relativity versus the skepticism? >> this is a really interesting

question. einstein's theory relatively -- relativity their holdouts. for the most part they look at the actual data and see that there's a deflection of light and it matches einstein's prediction and some people say maybe there's an alternative solution. then one of the interesting that happens is astronomers continue to test einstein's theories even though it's generally accepted. an american is drawn a mayor tested it in the 1920s and had much better. precision than einstein did. they do the test even though they know what the answer is going to be. and throughout the 20th

century they continue push einstein's theory. it's amazing. they spend billions of dollars on scientific challenges even though they know though get an answer thate is wrong. i don't know why they were so obsessed. we have a lot of really good questions. i want to be sure to honor everyone's time. i'm going to ask one more. before a dude that would you be willing to stay on a little bit longer so we can explore some more these piers i would personally like to hear some of the answers. >> i would be delighted to. >> the last official question comes from stacey. your next book is a history of the scientific prediction of the end of the war. can you say a little bit more about this?

it sounds very exciting. >> i certainly could. i wish i knew more about it. it's a new project. the question that struck me about this was once upon a time predictions about the end of the world were something that you asked profits and priests about and this is a religious kind of prediction like the book of revelations and so on. nowadays we ask scientists about it and they have a lot of them to ascribe too so i'm intereste in how that shift came to be and how scientistic on the duty. there isnt one particular type f prediction to the end of the world and that's the idea that an asteroid will hit the earth and as dr. matthew described the dinosaurs. when i was a kid the idea that

we had. nowadays there's a difference so how did that come to be? there's a structure change in the way we think about it. >> on behalf of the world war i memorial and the linda howe library and many lectures thank you very much. if you're interested in our future as dr. stanley was just talking about pay attention to the web site that you stay right there and start listening to this podcast. and if you like history and science i believe we have it on sale at their web site at the

world war.org and if you have not picked up the book yet learn more about reading the book einstein's war, to great way to do it. thank you and for those of you who need to leave thank you so much for your time it's one of your most valuable commodities. we truly appreciate learning with you. i write matt there are so many other really great questions here. go for it. >> charles kelly has a question about einstein's relationship with other socialists in particular hg wells and helped einstein escaped germany. i do not know specifically if wells was involved in that or not. he was traveling when the came to power so einstein just never

goes back. einstein kind of moves around to other places and then he initially thought socialism helped get people out of germany and einstein spent the first few years of his time in the united states trying to do the same kind of thing like letters of recommendations and making phonecalls and letters of -- and making phonecalls andme trying o get as many people of jewish heritage and politics out and i should say there are those refugees that come to united states and those are the people that build the atomic bomb. it's an amazing kind of thing

that the persecution of the gives rise to what eventually becomes a superpower. there's a larger lesson. >> it comes a little full circle. folks in the audience are they aware that hg wells's the one who coined the phrase the war to end all wars. you can find out more on this interesting topic. again this intersection of history literature and science is a wonderful place to be. nancy asked what happened to the astronomers that went to russia? >> this is interesting. they are arrested as spies.

they set up their equipment right over the russian naval base which made since when there wasn't a war going on. when the work begins they are arrested and their future was unclear. they are released in a prisoner of war trade. they are the first chairman prisoners to come back. their equipment stays in russia for almost 100 years afterwards. it doesn't come back until after the collapse of the soviet union sent the germans couldn't have read down the test even if they wanted to.

edison there's a specific question on how one draws the diagram and this is actually a pretty important question and another example of handwaving for presentation purposes. it's actually more proper to draw the band ofet the light afr the light goes against the light of the sun like a venn diagram. it completely right that that's technically correct.. i find people get confused by that because they are not used to thinking about formation in that way and if you're not used to thinkw about that it gets confusing but you are quite right. >> who else do we have? >> this is fabulous mats. thinking about the anti-chairman

and anti-semitic rhetoric and can you speak more about the anxiety of sciences during this time that they would have to capitulate to popular discourse? scientist have to capitulate to popular discourse? do you notice any similarities of the pandemic today the public and the relationship with science, fabulous question and i hope i'm saying your name correctly. >> that is a terrific question. i put some of these quotes appear, we have i these really things about the things that american scientist say. chairman scientists in the think the chairman site to say about american scientists. they felt the need to say things like that and that's a real possibility. we do have private letters that many of these astronomers and scientists as well.

we may have some better sense of what was actually going on in their heads and in the british case which i know better than the chairman or french cases that they were not dealing like they needed to change what they had to say in terms of political or social pressure. rather they felt that these were real things and they lay out plans for after the war setting up scientific organizations where the austrians are her bed and from joining. dyson is of the particularly interesting case and that he doesn't make anti-chairman political statements during the war. his personal correspondence shows that he's upset his son

isn't old enough to go fight. he hopes that the germans lose the war and they are punished for it. then he goes along with eddington on this interesting plan which could have been a total disaster so it's very interesting to see how scientists navigate through these treacherous political and social waters while also trying to unfold science. in terms of the comparison to the modern day and the struggles that scientists have had with the general public to think one of the lessons we should take away from the einstein in eddington story is it's not so much the people trusted the science although i think that's probably true. rather that scientists were more concerned with talking to the

public and making it legible their ideas in a way that people could understand. eddington takes years off from doing this technical work as an astrophysicist to help people understand how will the tivoli -- relativity works and that's a skill that not many scientists today have been the reason for that is we don't train scientists and those skills. we train them to do experiments and get tenure that we don't teach them how to communicate. it would bee really nice if we took some time out from training our scientists and teach them how to talk. >> i already no one of the sound bitesif that's going to be comig from the talk right here. there are two more questions in the first is about a specific

date if you might know it. >> let me google that. >> the nice thing is that google exists for things along that line. >> august 21. >> that is your answer. and beth walsh brings us back to questions about the media and reporting. >> i should say the media the story of the 1919 eclipse has a media event. it's a wonderful way to think about it and there's a sense of which the first big media event of the post-war period get radio and telegraph lines so everyone is stunned by how quickly the news travels no more than

einstein. he hears about it when reporters show up at his door and he's like why do you people care about what i have to say much less following him around and asking them questions. in terms of the accuracy of the reporting there is the original story ino the times which an important sense is planted by eddington and dyson. they recruit a reporter to come to announce the results so that'sti pretty accurate. then the times, "the new york times" gets the times of london article and write their own article based on that meeting. they are talking to eddington or einstein. in accuracies begin to in. i'm still sharing my screen here, i'll go back to the article from then times.

this famous line of books for 12 wiseman and article it said no more than 12 people could understand it. that's totally fabricated. that's not true at all. lots of people understood relatively by -- relativity by this point. there is some variation of that even today and it's for people in the building understand einstein's theory. the "times" article gets picked up by the newspapers so as they track in accuracies creeping in and some of the knackers include things like einstein's nationality. people begin t to forget the fat that he is jewish and that drops off the map fairly quickly as

well the two expeditions went to africa in one brazil come up quite quickly and the numerical predictions disappear essentially. who knows what would have really happened at the blogosphere existed? >> dr. matthew stanley thank you so a very much. it has been a trigger like to be in conversation with you this evening and it is a delight at the national world war i museum and memorial and the landon howell library and trying to keep in accuracies away from history and science and to be bringing conversations like this to you and right now if you are watching live and in the future and if you've enjoyed this and you want to to share you concert i find it on our youtube page to

these is way to get there is to go to the world war.org and to see the youtube channel sign and you can share their later on. if you want to find out more you should pick up thehe book. we will be following along with doctors stanley at any of his other spaces where he is teaching. again doctors stanley thank you so very much. >> thanks so much for having me. this is really delightful. >> and thank you all for being here. >> good evening and welcome to to tonight's history on tap program. for those of you who are not familiar with the history. on tp series what we have been doing for the last two years now and congratulations on ours