with the unnecessary background noise. members and witnesses will be responsible for and muting themselves when they are recognized to speak and when they wish to seek recognition i also asked that members please identify themselves before they speak members should keep their cameras on and when they are on camera and they should be considered not present were not visible on camera the only exception to this that they are experiencing technical difficultyd and inform committee staff if anyone experiences technical difficulty you should stay connected on the platform make sure you are muted and the it

director's number was provided to you in advance experiencing technical difficulties and as a member of the subcommittee and ms. baldwin and she is not available so then we will assume that gavel. >> and as such the hearing room is officially close. members choose to sit with their individual devices in the hearing room must wear headphones to avoid feedback, echoes. and for thosese that are sitting

in the same room. and then save healthcare guidelines including mask and hand sanitizer wiping down the area within the hearing room and in order to ensure the committee five-minute will visit here to keeping track of time which appears in its own picture. and asked to wrap up promptly when the time has expired or i will gavel you to a close. and with those opening statements unlimited to the chair and the ranking member.

this allows us to hear from the witnesses sooner and to advise all members with adequate time to ask questions i now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement. >> and needing to explore a unique role of historically black colleges and expanding access to affordable high quality education as the university i am proud to chair this firstst hearing to examine the state of the institution since 2008 and as chair of the higher education and workforce investment subcommittee i am

committed to addressing the needs of the hpc you and their students including infrastructure and improve the research capability, financial assistance and eliminate and food and housing insecurity and then to account for a decade or decades of growth underfunding.il to be at the heart of addressing the nation's long-standing education and the equity failures for 200 years with letters of economic and social mobility for generations of black students in fact hpc you was with the

specific purpose to educate black students because other institutions refused in the wake of the emancipation and proclamation. and with my institution. and then these institutions have survived the jim crow era segregation. and decades and decades and decades with that investment today hpc you remain committed to devoting the

academic, social success of the descendents of enslaved americans. and the student population. and hpc you account with all colleges and universities. and those 80 percent of black judges and 70 percent and 70 percent of black teachers. the congressional black caucus and other members of congress unfortunately and then to

achieve more with far less. hbcu is still recovering. and with that education funding with the 2008 recession disproportionately affecting the campus the proliferation and the funding policies to disadvantage with those disparities even worse and additionally the endowments held are less than one third theuc size of those house of private non- hpc you.

and that congress must provide hbcu with the responses in the support that you need to systemic underfunding since march 2020 and then and one.6 million for capital financing. and then to help students make food and housing to allow more than 20 hpc you to you a

student debt. and just last month as part of the build back better act and of those investments. and the czar critical. and decades of systemic underinvestment. and you can have a long way to go to correct historic, historic inequities. and we can all benefit from the contributions of such luminaries.

and that h model. and thurgood marshall. that even the vice president harris. we must observe and protect hbcu for the next generation changemakers. so i look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure they receive the support that they need to make sure that happens. and we will hold hearings that showcase the contribution and

accomplishments of the colleges and universities and those institutions which played an important role in the higher education landscape. with our distinguished witnesses thank you for being with us today. i now yield to the distinguished ranking member , doctor murphy for his opening statement. >> thank you madame chairman for those excellent remarks also to members of the committee to testify beforei us. historically black colleges are a critical landscape and then to become a vital force and the workforce.

and then to overcome immeasurable challengesal and hardships today over 100 hbcu plays a vital role and is pivotal in the education with the nation's future leaders. and many times met the chancellor a true gem in the world of academia to develop smart mindset. so my hats off to carry and the financial stress requiring many institutions to take a hard to get the business model and hpc was no exception

including those about financial accountability one thing we must now and that is especially true to encourage all institutions to become more self-reliant and accountable. and then molly fully support these institutions they must develop sustainable funding mechanisms this goes through hbcu as well as all of her educational. more many is not the answer and does not address the underlying causes of institutions of highernd education. and those that have a a tremendous amount it provided

minority serving institutions and permanent mandatory funding stream on top of the annual appropriation since march 2020 hpc you have received an additional $6 billion with a higher education act this includes $1 billion of the c.a.r.e.s. act funding one.$7 billion of the coronavirus response and release supplementation appropriation act. as well as an additional one.6 billion in capital financing loan charges even with thisth massive amount senator booker and senator sanders want to see the number increased by 100 billion with president biden build back president biden build back

and that is additional spending on hbcu honestly these additional funds are questionably absurd. all federal funding may provide temporary support we must encourage hbcu to be more innovative for more strategic business models and work with the private sector to help students complete the program and excel in the workforce just as with any other educational institution also cannot be exempt from accountability any institution of tax dollars must be held to a higher standard as well as any other institution should not be propped up by federal dollars and definitely when they are not being held accountable. we must be sure all serve their students easy access to taxpayer dollars create perversest incentives for those to hike tuition cost i have spoken extensively on finances

and that is not exempt from this discussion nor that the federal government will step into subsidized price hikes to justifynd indiscriminate spending on this administrative below and unnecessary programs. they are not to improve the educational outcomes and experiences not the salaries of additional staff and t administrators and then to get the institutions on stronger financial footing we all want the to succeed for future generations thank you madame chairwoman for the then the.

>> thank you very much subcommittee chairwoman and wilson and to the ranking member murphy. i saw earlier but i don't see now into virginia fox into the other committee members and it is an honor to be here today especially on the birthday of activist it was jubilee d at the university. and those university students to be joined with the professor and then to raise

money to keep the doors open and to this day to be open and thrive and the jubilee singers are a revered part of the legacy and then a physician and the engineer the first african-american woman towo be admitted into nasa and directed into the national woman's halll of fame it is a joyous occasion and a wonderful homecoming. i'm so gladal to be here so quickly about the history and then the unique relationship with america and then the three things i think we need to do from here.

hearing quite a bit about the history of h on —- hbcu are unique the only that were founded by those who had prevented and then the most horrific conditions and brought to america against their will with thousands time from the time they left their land until the time they got here that they were stripped of their families and their culture and their language all things familiar to them. and going to the most unimaginable circumstances one thing they kept their mind on was education but they kept their mind their spirits and their hearts on education the importance of education when

their from where they needed to be so we began to see the abolitionist and the faith institutions establishing colleges and universities with the introduction into this landscape the public colleges and universities to allow because they were 1862 land grab institutions and to recognize that the courts suggested it was unlawful to have public a institutions for white students and not blacks and then to maintain for black sand they did that there

wasn't a mandate to find them equitably where that began a long and storied road of litigation legislation in the seattle and executive orders and with that bicameral support that historic investment of six.$5 billion in 2020 and those in the last month. and then to continue the long and stormy road to equitable

funding and then the types of things those are not minorityri saving institutions. were race or ethnicity that's important because over the years as we develop that minorities with those diverse institutions to create a program for them. but somehow they are clumped together i will talk during

q&a how wehe decouple them because of the special relationship where that strengthening institution of the higher education act in 1986 i'm sorry 1968 and the chronic treatment by america and the core base through the years 200 years and now an additional 200 so in recognition we had executive orders and legislation and administrative fiat on those of discrimination i will talk about that to see what we can do about it. with my limited time remaining and went to suggest three things that we do. we are at a point where our institutions are stronger

today than yesterday. and then america cannot realize that economic goals were health goals or sustainability goals and then because of the fact that without hbcu thereen is no diverse working-class. >> the chairwoman is trying to get your attention. >> your time has expired. >> i'm so sorry i look forward to entertaining your questions. >> thank you so much. >> the second witness is a

senior fellow at the brookings institution metropolitan policy program a scholar in university and leadership and with the allegheny college. r.welcomes a mac and thank you to the distinguish members of the subcommittee. and what i believe to be a matter of national security and in the 18th and 19th century to the tech the throughout the last decade with the innovation by the rights wide swath off americans

to make a sustainable global powers of our understanding of technology is severely at risk the lack of recognition and investment of black innovators alongside the less outlay of the economy overall. federal research and development investment has been in decline for 60 years helping science and educational institutions including hbcu have the resources needed to introduce new products and services to the public the lack of r&d investment is reflected in regional and racial imbalances show nearly halff of spending flow to just six states and in addition to the geographic disparities with less than 1 percent of federal r&b

expenditures go to hbcu in 2019. likewise my colleagues and i have found only seven.4 percent of six.six oh two black and latino innovators far below that they share in the population that lack of investment saps wealth it from institutions and onf top of the wealth gap the average white family has ten times the wealth of the average black family we see disparity at the institutional level and the combined endowment for every hbcu in the country is just over three.9 billion. so new york university alone has an endowment of four.3 billion that year we cut our noses to spite her face when we don't invest in the assets that spur social mobility the lack ofr investment in hbcu flies in the face off research that shows these institutions punch

above their weight when it comes to developing society. according to a recent society report. of all matriculating black students. that same 3 percent produces 17 percent of all bachelors degrees 24 percent of all stem related awarded to the nation. so that activity generates 14.$8 billion of economic impact annually according to a study of the college advocacy group. hbcu continue to produce a a high share of the black doctors and judges and other representatives as mentioned. hbcu have developed this talent in spite of investment.

for instance earlier this year committee established in the tennessee legislature determined tennessee state university never received an estimated 500 million it has been entitled from the state funding. similarly and maryland after a 13 year legal battle the assembly recently agreed to have 577 million to morgan state university as well as the university of maryland. we should be investing to expand the economy and it institutions and one of the hbc located in mobilenv alabama and we shouldup be investing to support business incubation with successful models and the atlanta-based pre- accelerator

and that incubator to support tech. and that which infrastructure continues to unfold to me people ignore the fact that the real undergirding of the 21t century, infrastructure including upgrading power grids renewable energy that requires investment. therefore if you want to jumpstart the innovation economy you must invest in the underappreciated people to yield significant growth. that means investing and hbcu thank you and i look forward to questions later. >> we also know that there are those that do not have air-conditioning. that is totally unacceptable

our third witnesses vice president of the folder institute at the heritage foundation for the center for civil society and the american dialogue and those in the white house office of the public liaison and the chief of staff at the us department of education and holds a doctorate from memphis a masters degree from american university and a bachelor of arts degree. welcome. >> thank you. thank you chairman scott and subcommittee chair one and

wilson and also to doctor murphy for the opportunity to testify today. i am thela vice president from the institute at the heritage foundation. ladies and gentlemen we can make no mistake the contributions of historically black colleges and universities to america are invaluable. according to the united negroegu college graduates hold one quarter of all science, technology, mathematics degrees earned by african-americans. moreover 12.5 percent of all black ceos and half of all the nations our graduates and i am so proud to say i am one of them. other institutions of higher learning they have worked to render by forging new partnerships with the private and public sector that is part

of the c.a.r.e.s. act provides more than 1 billion suffering hardship due to covid-19 prior tohe the pandemic president trump signed into law the future act to make permanent 255 million of mandatory spending for hbcu and as a result of theye past several years has seen a historic infusion of additional funding. and mlk junior reminds us we are not makers a history but by history and wine of the great lessons american leaders have learned from covid-19 it is like a thief in the night toward the budget constraints and as the national debt becomes more and more and

sustainable the consequences of massive spending is for the next generation. an additional federal funding on —- funding and then to take the opportunity to leverage resources to the greatest and highest use they have an opportunity to prioritize programming and reinvest resources so total revenue for hbc during the 20172018 academic year was eight.$7 billion. and the revenue model relies heavily on tradition and financial aid and veryy few have cultivated the endowment and this is what some can't

sustain to leadership and compete with other colleges the department of education capital financing program is more than 500 million loans to hbcu and a temporary bridge of solution building that to expand private sector partnerships and realign the program offerings from the projected workforce needs hbcu colleges nationwide can expand the private sector from appellation and congress has a role to play and with those

into the higher education a path for generations to come. with that core academic mission in the 101 hbcus are time tested. as a graduate and with the ultimate measure of the nation's vitality and strength. thank you.

>> so let us remember it so important to deal with the hbcu. >> and from tennessee state university and with the international president and my sorority and then from jackson state university. and then to serve and from

george washington university she earned the mba and a ba. welcome. >> general wilson. and also from tennessee state it isst a comprehensive among 8000 students and our country

with a strong sustainable and those that are necessary and then to account for to produce 22 percent and 25 percent of african-american students 50 percent of 50 percent and 3 percent of african-american judges. 20 percent of phd's are from ofhbcu.

and then the vice president these achievements then were 70 percent less and those that had to do more with less and we're please to present this propositionnd and with that build back better act and then amid the challenges of the general welfare and prosperity of our country.

and those are those technology devices those that can buy those and then to support and we thank you.

with that transformative power. in the adequate facilities. but then the question should be added we do so much and then to advance our great country? that's a question that hbcu and then to support and to close the gap with much-needed

investment and hbcu to address the historic discrimination and to put on equal footing at the majority of institutions and it is never too late to do what's right. thank you. >> thank you so much and i would be remiss if i did not also note as a member of alpha kappa alpha sorority also in the national president here with us today. we will now question witnesses and in the seniority order to ensure the five-minute rule is adhered to to keep track of time. and one time has expired so

please wrap up when your time is over chairwoman, i narrow on —- now recognize myself for five. doctor, can you elaborate on the systemic underfunding and the impact. >> thank you there are two in tennessee, tennessee stay in university of tennessee.

and to ask for agriculture in science and engineering. when i became president so looking at the funding and wondering why there was no match for tennessee state university and additionally the funding required the states had a movement to see one third so there is nothing in the budget for tennessee state. nothing. for 50 years there was nothing in the budget that the and defending words captured in the late fifties and then to come to 150 million and with

the state legislature we are working with the committee that was putting together last fall so to enter into conversations and then we had some success on that. cannot say if it's a disappointing time but we do believe we're making some progress. >> and i propose that is true of other underfunded hbcu. is there more they can do as they compete for critical funds?

>> so what does congress do? >> i will answer the question but i would like to set it up in the context of what we have a tennessee state university is not unique and is part of that pattern and that discrimination against historically black colleges in the land grab institution the report that those that found the 2010 through 201261 percent of the land grab institutions did not receive 100 percent of the one / one match funds for that

extension and research funding. go back to the special relationship. so when congress established the land grab institution and with the 18 nineties and 1862 they had the estate match. between 2010 and 2012, 61 percent of the 1890 land grab between 2010 and90 2012 those universities did not receive more than 31 million an extension ofunding due to states not needing down one / one requirement in the land grab universities did not have more than 25 million of research funding due to states not meeting the one / one match. m >> let me ask you this.

and that survey conducted but the gao responding to hbcu that nearly half on average is the placement. >> with the united states to recognize the these institutions central to the progress of america in terms of research we have 11 research and inns on —- research institutions that are high intensive that if they were invested with that we turn on investment. and with the additional centers of excellence. and then to utilize the corporate and then to do a

number of things that would position that to research those institutions and then with the type of relationship with theep scientific department and agencies whirlpool the resources to move them sent anddr the driver seat with the scientific conventions this time inly the health field to help move america from where they are today. >> i now recognize the ranking member for his question.

>> and to all the witnesses. and just to give a shout out to do a tremendous job with a aviation program taken from very tough times to be in your testimony the obama era that the rule was particularly harmful to the hbcus community can you m flesh that out? >> thank you for the question. as a cap balancing the need of the institution to protect both requirements of connectivity

between the program and antivity outcome the student would receive in terms of gainful employment. so, that rule in terms of focusing on disclosure was very important to begin to relax that and create another flexibility for hbcus and institutions of higher learning not to be harmed. again, we want to make sure students are going to engage in programs that are going to lead to employment. at the same time there has to be a balancing of where that

accountability comes and where the institutions themselves can also be protected in their programs that they offer. rep. murphy: all right. i appreciate that. i think it has been a mantra -- i am in medicine. i have been in surgery 30 years. it is accountability and i don't think our institutions are exempt from that. i think there needs to be a lot more accountability at all institutions not just hbcus because i think the falsehood of federal money has led to that not being accountable. i think outcomes are important. i think we have to look at what institutions are doing with their money and are they giving the students the education they deserve? are they giving them what they are paying for? ari giving the taxpayers what they are doing? i think this is across all

institutions. as the committee looks to reauthorize the higher education act do you have any specific suggestions to what the accountability framework should look like? ms. sailor: yes. there has to always be transparency. i think that will continue to be an essential factor in making sure that the relationship between the student, the taxpayer and the institution is going to render us what we are looking for. i mean, ultimately, we want to make sure that students are going to graduate and be employed. and we want to make sure they are going to be able to realize their dreams and contribute to society. we see in 2020 just six in 10 students completed a four year bachelor's degree in six years. as we look at these reforms of accountability we need to continue to make sure the

mission of what the school is trying to do in terms of academic onset of the educational experience to the workplace is met. you know, it is critically important as well to continue to allow the voices of industry to be at the table in terms of looking at those reforms and how they need to work, and the collaboration between the institutions toward making sure that the students are equipped to do the jobs that will be available. rep. murphy: right. i appreciate the comments. i think putting the private sector in, because that is where most jobs are and they are going to demand accountability, that we have to ask higher education institutions, all hbcus and everybody else, to put out a product that is worthy of the money instilled in them. i thank you all again. thank you, madame chairman.

i am going to yield back. rep. wilson: thank you so much for your questioning. as far as accountability, we will follow up on that and agree. ms. manning, north carolina. rep. manning: thank you. i want to thank our witnesses for being here to talk about this important topic. i have three wonderful hbcus in my district including north carolina a&t which is the largest and has had a lot of accolades, including olympic athletes who recently competed in the olympics. we have one gold medal winner. shout out to them. dr. perry, you mentioned in your testimony the important role hbcus play in educating black students in the stem field. can you talk about the impact federal investments have had on

the ability of hbcus to enhance stem education and support the innovation in the economy? dr. perry: yes. the reason why i talked about the importance of graduates in the stem field is it is clear the economy is moving towards one in which you have to be highly skilled, particularly in science, technology, engineering and math. despite the lack of investment in those institutions hbcus are producing a higher percentage. when we are talking about performance it is -- and accountability -- there are predominantly white institutions not holding up their fair share of the bargain. at the end of the day we, as an economy that is going to grow, it is going to grow because we graduate stem majors at a higher percentage. right now many institutions are

not doing that but hbcus are. i just want to be clear that hbcus have always produced in this area but they have been devalued. less patents are given out to stem graduates, less investment into the graduates. so, we could do so much more if we saw investments in those institutions and the graduates they produce. rep. manning: thank you. i want to do a follow-up. as i meet with business leaders, and this is a moment when many businesses are looking to diversify their workforces, i hear a lot of them talk about the fact they cannot find people in the stem field and they cannot find people in engineering. we graduate lots of great people in the stem fields and engineering. what can we do to promote those graduates and make sure employers are looking at our great hbcus for the kinds of employees they say they are

having trouble finding? dr. perry: i don't know if you can hold people accountable to this but when employers say they cannot find black workers in the stem field, particularly in the south, they clearly do not have a relationship with hbcus. in places like alabama, north carolina, several hbcus produced the graduates but they don't have the connections to the industry. if they are not going to reach out, we need to build some type of bridge and it can include social interactions, south by southwest, if you have o hub that takes students from hbcus to south by southwest to introduce them to funders, companies and the sort to make those introductions. we know so much of investment is about relationships.

so if employers are not going to recognize the talent, we have to somehow make those graduates more visible. i have been really high on creating initiatives that essentially display the talent. the bayou classic for instance, they have a pitch competition in which the winner from an hbcu gets a certain amount of investment fund. we need to do more of that but let's be clear, there are a lot of people who say they cannot find black workers and that is a reflection of bias in the labor markets which don't make much sense. rep. manning: thank you. dr. glover, quick question. we are starting to see mega donors who were noticing hbcus as places they want to make donations. how do we expand upon this to

attract more donations to hbcus? dr. glover: i think it starts with having public-private partnerships and expanding to the corporate community to ensure their relationships with the corporate community join. relationships bring about more gifts and contributions and then when the schools are doing things in the community and in the corporate world, the industrial world, in the government, when you are doing things that will show that your competitive -- you are competitive and have students competitive. it is about students and teachers and faculty and staff to ensure student success. we ensure student success by bringing them and putting them in the workplace. putting the right processes in place to ensure that they are

successful and enhance their future. you make these partnerships and you continue to meet and make more corporate and noncorporate relationships. rep. manning: thank you so much. i will yield back. rep. wilson: thank you so much. mr. grossman, wisconsin. rep. grossman: i don't have any historic universities in my district but there are a variety of issues i think that our concern across all academia. i will start with ms. sailor. i notice in the materials we have there are shocking numbers of student loan debt for students who have attended these institutions. we also have the same problem in wisconsin. some administrators feel what we ought to do is we ought to allow

the universities themselves to have to sign off on student loan debt. they feel young people being what young people are sometimes take out student loan debt in axes of what they actually need. do you think it would be a good idea, ms. sailor? or maybe one of the other witnesses? would you like the ability -- do you think the universities would like the ability to say, wait a minute, you can make do with $3000 of debt. do you think that would be a good idea? ms. sailor: thank you for the question. as young people are coming into the workplace and becoming independent being able to wrap our arms around them as they are making critical decisions that are going to impact their lives, and the lives of the next generation, i think providing support and counsel to students

as they are deciding to take out a loan and understanding what is that going to mean. what does that mean in terms of what they got to pay back and how it has to be paid. what does that mean in terms of the earnings. rep. grothman: do you think the universities would like the ability to say no, you cannot take out a loan of that size. we do not think it is in your best interest. ms. sailor: i think universities would like to be in a collaboration with students and have the opportunity to give them counsel to that end yes. rep. grothman: i will ask dr. glover. would you like the ability to have to sign off before a student took out a loan? dr. glover: students have their various parts of money from which students choose to finance their education. some have more options than others. there are some that have no other option but to get a loan. rep. grothman: the question is

though the size of the loan. dr. glover: your question is totally understood. i said if a student has no other choice but to get a loan, it is up to us to manage the loan to make sure they don't borrow too much money for things they don't need but for the education. if they do not live on the right side of the tracks and can't sit around the table and have somebody going to cash in my cd to get money for school, we don't have that in our population. those students have to borrow money to go to school. i'd rather they borrow money and go to college then not go to college. we will assist them and say, you only need to borrow enough to cover this, etc. rep. grothman: would you like the ability to tell a student you cannot take that amount out? dr. glover: we do that.

we do that at hbcus. we say to them you don't need the loan. we will help you find another source of funds and we do. we have to find scholarships from other places. they cannot get a scholarship we have an alumni come to the rescue. loans are in many cases the last. rep. grothman: i am looking at an article in the washington examiner. democratic professors outnumber republicans nine to one. i talked to a professor at a private college in wisconsin. he felt less than 2% of the professors voted for donald trump. i think diversity of thought is very important in universities everywhere. i will ask ms. sailor, do you feel where you went to college there is diversity of thought and where the professors tilting toward one way of ideology or the other? could this be a problem in some of these universities? ms. sailor: we see studies

across the nation and there is great tension about diversity of thought in academia. and it is a growing concern. as we have seen the onset of cancel culture coming from both the left and the right across the spectrum in terms of issues that can be shared i think there is a growing concern about diversity of thought. rep. grothman: when you went to college did you find a lot of, or any, republican leaning professors or could you tell an ideological sway one way or the other? ms. sailor: i had a very unique experience in terms of talking to others and i felt i had a pretty balanced experience. my professors who were in the field of economics and dealing with finances tended to lean more conservative, republican if

you will. but in the humanities i found at times i was not sure one's political leaning because i found i got a balance of being able to read literature that espoused different viewpoints. in my own life i always thought to try to compare ideologies across the spectrum in terms of my study in order to keep myself in a position to be able to define my viewpoints for myself. rep. grothman: thank you. rep. wilson: thank you. let me remind the witnesses and the members please, in order for us to remain online we have a block of time. there are other committees meeting at the same time as we are. when you expand your time you hurt our ability to broadcast to

the thousands of people interested in hbcus and we have thousands on this call now. let's be mindful of the time that has been allotted to us. thank you so much. now we are going to hear from our progressive champion. >> thank you so much, madamee chair and thank you to all of you for being here today. i am so proud to support debt-free degrees for all students but especially those at hbcus because these institutions are engines of the class for the communities they serve and for our nation. they prepare black students to succeed and many are the first in their families to go to college. but we do face lack of equitable funding that burdens that mission and as we consider investments we can make to address all the challenges faced

by students at hbcus, addressing disparities in funding have to be part of that strategy if we are going to improve affordability and success. i want to thank my colleague alma adams who is somebody who is constantly talking about the importance of this. dr. perry, in the work you talk about -- in your work you talk about how expected student loan debt is a barrier to low income students and students of color, especially for those attending hbcus. my bill to college for all act addresses that challenge by helping low and middle income hbcu students attend tuition free and by doubling the pell grant. what investments in this would have on the low income student'' ability to afford complete college especially at hbcus? dr. perry: my colleague and i did a study on how canceling debt will close the racial

wealth gap and we see that the more debt you cancel the more you close the long-standing racial wealth divide in this country. in addition to closing the wealth gap, you are essentially creating professionals in high-growth industries which accelerates the economy even further. the more we can graduate folks from the under appreciated assets in our communities, meaning if you just have water, it will grow, hbcus are among those underappreciated assets. many of them are not receiving the investment and we could give more growth, close racial wealth gaps, and improve the community overall. i will add this point to address one of the other comments that was made. we really do need a true public option in terms of free college.

we talk about holding systems accountable. we actually have that amongst state colleges in a sense of the spikes into wish not occurred at the same level because state legislatures guard against that. let's not conflate all institutions. i also agree we should be rewarding institutions that graduate black students at a higher rate. not to say, hey, only public institutions should get free college. but we should incentivize those colleges to graduate black students at a higher rate. rep. jayapal: thank you. thank you so much. we looked at that in washington state. because of the state legislature's investments we were able to keep the rising cost of college lower but it is still extremely unaffordable for too many.

president glover, in my district cities and states invest in seattle promise which serves over 60% of low income students of color annually and one third are first-generation. it is successful for the reason we were talking about. it uses state and local funds but in addition to improve wraparound services like counseling and mentorship. how does the state's failure to provide equitable investment in your schools impact its ability to provide wraparound services for students most in need? dr. glover: it has a profound effect because without the funding the services are not readily available. so we are trying now to let students know about the various services. wraparound services are very important. housing, many schools have homeless populations. at tennessee state we make sure

our students have housing year-round. we know the population we serve. the other services are counseling services. this covid crisis is brought about a higher number of depression among students. students are eager to tell you, i need some counseling, i need some assistance. those days are over it was taboo to talk about issues. we have tele-counseling 24/7, not just tennessee state but many hbcus have stepped up to the plate and begun these wraparound services for students so they can be enhanced throughout their academic career. rep. jayapal: thank you. my time has expired. conscious of your words i yield back. rep. wilson: mr. banks? rep. banks: thank you. i introduced the pell grant act

which would allow them to be used for technical education. the committee refused to bring it up for a vote even though it had bipartisan support. now we find out that one of the main threats to hbcus is their inability to remain competitive with both traditional four year colleges and trade schools. according to andrew kelly of the american enterprise institute, only 14% of children for the bottom third of the income distribution curve will complete four year college degrees. many of these will go on to complete some form of technical education. ms. sailor, what effect would offering technical education have on hbcus in terms of student enrollment and competitiveness? ms. sailor: thank you. i think what is critically important in the days we live in is to be able to offer people options and choices so that they

can tailor for themselves and customize for themselves the professional upscaling that they want in the areas they desire to go. again, you cannot find a parent who is looking to be in debt and you cannot find a student looking to be in debt. people are looking for options and ways to get to the finish line in the way that will best fit their needs. again, options are critical and the more options and the more awareness people have about them and where those options lead them i think is nothing but an asset to being able to make wise decisions. rep. banks: can you talk about how pell grant flexibility what help do that, provide more options for hbcus to provide technical education? ms. sailor: yes. it would give the financial support for the low income

students from the underserved community that option as a way to circulate to the system. some people know directly what they want to be. they have their eye on the job they are going for and that will create another opportunity for them to chart a course that may be a better course for their life or a better choice for their life and where they want to go. rep. banks: thank you. one of the numerous crises plaguing higher education is the disappearance of men. according to the wall street journal, men make up only 40% of students enrolled in traditional four year universities. however, this discrepancy is more stark at hbcus. according to the national center for education statistics, female enrollment at hbcus has been higher than male enrollment every year since 1976. the percentage of female

enrollment at hbcus increased from 53% in 1976 to 63% in 2019, which is higher than the national average. ms. sailor, what is the root cause of the dress gender disparity at hbcus and what effect does this have on minority communities as a whole? ms. sailor: i think when you look at the black male population across the board and we look at high prison rates and we look at the distribution of opportunity against females and males, this is a challenge for us as a nation across-the-board. i think it is hard to take that conversation and just narrow it down to specifically historically black colleges and universities. across the nation we have an

issue with what is happening to the black male in our country and the leadership opportunity there. rep. banks: can you talk about what hbcus are doing to address the gender gap? ms. sailor: if i look and talk to leaders in the hbcu community, there are major efforts in terms of trying to do recruitment and looking at partnerships even before students graduate from high school in terms of creating interest and opportunity. you see a lot of this happening with the rotc program and the junior rotc programs toward getting interest of males into higher education and on the hbcu campuses towards that end, which creates opportunities for funding of their education as they begin to serve our nation. rep. banks: thank you you. i yield back. rep. wilson: thank you so much.

such an important topic and that is why congress has established the commission on the social status of black men and boys. on this committee today there are three members, mr. bowman, myself, and ms. mcbeth. we found on the hbcu campuses 70% of the student body are female students. in atlanta only spelman college sees that and they are all girls ' college. i worked with tennessee state this last year to help increase their black male population by sending them 12 black boys to tennessee state from jacksonville, florida and miami-dade county, florida to

help incentivize other black males to attend college. and you've got to do that from beginning in the third grade. thank you so much for that. that is just write down my alley. our next member is down his alley. we are both former principals, mr. bowman of new york. rep. bowman: thank you. i rarely if ever disagree but i am going to slightly disagree that we need to begin the college-bound process in pre-k. [laughter] just to plant the seeds before they even start kindergarten. first i want to thank our witnesses for being here today and express a special thank you to the hbcu caucus founder and cochair congresswoman adams and chairwoman wilson for their

continued relentless advocacy and leadership over the years and making this hearing happened today. while there are no hbcus in my district of westchester and the bronx, by the way, we may need to talk about that. all the hbcus are in the south and i am in the northeast. we could get one or two in the northeast. there is one in brooklyn. we need one in the bronx. i have constituent to attend hbcus out-of-state. the opportunity needs to remain for generations to come. i had a question for stem education for dr. baskerville. thank you for your testimony today. i would like to discuss stem investments in hbcus. in addition to sitting on this committee eyes serve as subcommittee chair on energy for the science, space and technology committee. on both committees it is clear

to me we need to do more in stem education. not only in higher education but in k-12 as well. studies have shown the percentage of black students earning stem degrees nationwide has declined in recent years. but we also know hbcus play an outsized role in awarding stem degrees to black students. my question is, what do hbcus do differently from non-hbcus in this regard and what lessons can other colleges and universities learn from hbcus about effective stem education and exposure to stem career opportunities? dr. baskerville: thank you so much, congressman bowman. i would like to say we are delighted to say we are delighted you have predominantly black institutions that nafio helped. medgar evers is one and they align with nafio.

relative to stem, hbcus are doing a number of things to begin pre-k and work your way up. one of the things nafio did for 10 years with the national telecommunications and information administration was to shape and execute and evaluate techno-scholars. the data suggested boys are interested in technology and if you keep them busy on whatever the current technological advices are, they would excel. we identified six hbcus and were able to get them technology devices and we found -- we partnered them with young men at the hbcus. we are mentors. they had a mentor who looked like them, came from the background and they had devices. their graduation rates

went up substantially compared to the black men who were not techno-scholars. they got lessons on the technology and as a reward they were given games, programs they enjoyed playing. there is another group, quality education for minorities that, dr. ivory tolson was the last president. they are also looking for innovative ways to engage in the pipeline. with the trio program, in the last few years with tremendous support from chairman scott and others on the committee started a program, upward bound stem, recognizing in the 10th grade if you focus on stem, you can work. we are doing as many things -- there is more we can do -- but we are evaluating and will hopefully have a report on which seem to be most promising. rep. bowman: thank you so much for that response.

as a middle school principal i was one of the only middle schools in the bronx to offer a computer science program to our kids. that something as we think about k-12 schools i think we could do more of in partnership with hbcus. thank you so much, madame chair. i yield back. rep. wilson: thank you, mr. bowman. i would be remiss if i did not recognize chairman scott for his work with black boys and men also today. now our next member is ms. miller meeks. rep. miller-meeks: thank you, chairwoman, ranking member and witnesses. i had the opportunity to visit several hbcus, not in my statement elsewhere, and always impressed with the work they do.

this was not originally where i was going to go with my questioning but i'm going to follow up on something representative banks asked. i am a 24 year military veteran, left home at 16 in order to get to medical school. one of the comments you made earlier ms. sailor in your testimony, both in your comments and your written testimony, in trying to get young black men into college and to address the gender gap. you mentioned the hbcus' collaboration with reserve officer training courses to cultivate future military officers. that said, 25% of the hbcus currently participate in rotc programs. are there barriers preventing more hp use from -- hbcus from collaboration? i think this would be a win-win for the country.

ms. sailor: thank you for the question. i have to say this as well, my husband and i have two children at west point. rep. miller-meeks: my gosh. ms. sailor: we have a special place in our heart for that type of training. i have a son and i cannot imagine wanting him in a more secure discipline program, if you will, as he is becoming a young man. as we have at the heritage foundation been working with rotc programs on hbcu campuses one of the things we noticed in terms of conversation around the barriers is it requires funding. we see that collaboration has come into play as a way to overcome that barrier where you've got like, in virginia, hampton university and others

collaborate together and bring those university systems together to use those resources collectively. we even see that happening at institutions like harvard and m.i.t. where they collaborate those resources together in order to give those students the best experience that they can have and the best exposures they can have. i think it is super important as we continue to look at this as a model, there is another instance in terms of looking at making sure the workplace development piece is in-line line with the need. one of the areas we talked with hbcus is that cybersecurity area. it is not as strong as it could be in terms of looking at military preparedness and there

are several of the institutions looking at how to funnel and channel a collaborate to make those areas stronger. rep. miller-meeks: interesting you're bringing that up because representative bowman just talked about stem education and i think mr. perry did as well. the success in hbcus in graduating in science degrees and further science degrees and computer technological. certainly that is a value to the military. it is value to their education and would facilitate careers in technology, and computer, and cyber technology which is incredibly important to our nation. is there something we can do in congress to help facilitate that collaboration? ms. sailor: yes. i think as we make this more and more of a priority as we talk about policy and the need for military preparedness i think it

is especially important because it puts hbcus again in a conversation about being an american asset that is being bolstered toward competitiveness in military preparedness. from a public relations standpoint and from a program standpoint it is essential for us to continue these conversations and look at policies that expand opportunity. rep. miller-meeks: thank you so much for your testimony and those of our witnesses. i yield back my time. rep. wilson: thank you so much. my friend from new york. >> thank you, chairwoman. thank you for allowing me to ask some questions. my first question is, how has the lack of funding, the disparity in funding at the

hbcus contributed to any issues with student retention. anybody would like to answer that? dr. baskerville, dr. glover? dr. glover: the various needs of hbcus span across several categories and most of those affect whether or not students attend university and sometimes when they return. the needs are so great in the infrastructure and deferred maintenance. that is a huge one for hbcu students. some of the students are crumbling. the infrastructure needs excessive work. [indiscernible] where you learn and where you

live is when it becomes important. when it rains outside it rains inside also. infrastructure is one. technology students want to understand they live in the technological age. they want to have the various types of technology including advanced computing capabilities and networks. the funding that has been denied over the years that hbcus have not received makes a difference when students are looking at schools. then the new active programs. funding and lack of funding has resulted in various programs not being able to be offered at various universities. of course, the research. i don't know how many students say n to a universityo.

it hurts and helps with the recruiting and retention. rep. espaillat: but even with these disadvantages hbcus and the hispanic serving institutions, as well as other minority serving institutions, have contributed to closing the racial and ethnic wealth gap in higher education. do you have any data of the important role these institutions have played in closing the wealth gap by the opportunities? even with these disadvantages presented to students. dr. glover: even with the lack of funding hbcus have excelled. we won't go over the stats anymore but if you take a student who would have gone to college who did not go for whatever reason, we've reached

out to them and they did not have the funding. lack of funding prevents students from going to school. there is no scholarship money available. there are other funding parts not available so then you become one of the statistics. the bureau of labor statistics said a graduating high school student makes on average $37,000 per year and if you go to college, you make $61,000 a year. that is almost $1 million a year over 40 years. that student has not made because of not going to college because of lack of funding. dr. perry: can i respond quickly? let's also remember black graduates, collegiate graduates, have a lower wealth profile than white counterparts and earn less money.

our economic mobility is throttled by discrimination in other areas. we can't ignore that part. black people are going to school and taking on more debt and the education not playing out the same way it does for white counterparts. rep. espaillat: thank you, madame chair. in new york state i was involved in a lawsuit that established disparities in funding, regional disparities in funding, in the new york public school system. the money was eventually allocated by the courts for capital improvement as well as operational. i think there is a lot of similarities in the years of disparities in funding given to hbcus and other minority serving institutions. i yield back. rep. wilson: thank you so much.

ms. mclean of michigan. rep: mclean: thank you to all of our guests today. i appreciate the efforts you are doing. i think we all share the same thought process and if we can get the younger generation, our youth, educated and provide them an opportunity to get a good, well-paying job, that solves so many problems down the road and it really begins to give them a sense of pride. i think you see that passed down from generation to generation. i applaud our efforts. i have a few clarifying questions -- this is my first time on the committee so i want to make sure i understand it. we talked earlier about endowments. if we're producing at such a

higher rate from these colleges, why do you think our endowments are suffering? dr. perry: well, it endowments are created not only from individual contributions but through other federal and state investments. overall in a net shell hbcus -- nutshell hbcus enroll much lower wealth individuals. even the graduates that go on are in a job market that throttles their wealth even further. from an individual perspective they receive less contribution from a federal -- rep. mclain: i understand. i don't need to be rude. dr. perry: not at all. rep. mclain: i graduated from northwood university. northwood university, which has

a good endowment fund, they would get federal moneys? dr. perry: that is one of the ways but remember -- rep. mclain: because there's lots of endowments -- dr. perry: i hate to put a damper on this but they were created for cotton money, alcohol money. the colleges -- rep. mclain: i understand. that helps me. i appreciate it. i am trying to connect the dots exec think the most important thing we can give our youth today is a job. when you think about it a job provides pride, sense of purpose, right? it breaks the cycle. it allows people to pay taxes. it allows people to give back. i am in agreement. i am asking again, perhaps our ladder is may be on the wrong wall for a moment. i go back to what mr. bowman said.

it seems like the workforce, the consumer of the product, the student, is wanting more skilled trades and i can only speak for my state in my district. i was out this morning and they are begging for people in the skilled trades industry. is there some sort of marriage we can do between the college and the skilled trades? i think you talked a little bit about that but i think that really is critical. because we talk about, you know, having free college tuition and whatnot. let's remember nothing is free. the professors are certainly not teaching for free and at the end of the day somebody has to pay those professors and it is typically the taxpayers' money congress is appropriating. i am just wondering, are we

truly providing -- this is not a knock on anyone, i don't want it to come across that way -- are we truly providing a product that the community wants? and anyone can answer that because people in my community don't need another lsna degree. they need somebody who knows how to weld. dr. baskerville: i would like to respond to that. the hbcu community has 17 two year institutions, community and technical colleges, that with the four year counterparts are punching above their weight. they are graduating disproportionate health professionals, in technology, and also in high needs areas. rep. mclain: so you are producing welders. dr. baskerville: producing

welders and in many cases at jf drake for example, classes are ranking above their counterparts in passing the license exams required once they get there. rep. mclain: journey men, apprenticeships all that? dr. baskerville: yes. rep. mclain: that's exciting, very exciting. dr. baskerville: i agree with your concept we have to have jobs that i think you have got to have people prepared for the workforce, people with strong character and people committed to service. i think that is one of the thing hbcus provide that makes them unique. yes we are preparing folks for the workforce and encouraging that comes with discipline. showing up on time. it is critical for us to teach our children how to think, not what to think, so they can come

up with these critical thinking skills on their own. with that, i yield back my time. thank you very much. chair wilson: go ahead. rep. bonamici: i want to speak to the gainful employment rule that was brought up in the witness testimony. students career programs with the expectation that they are going to receive a quality experience that will lead them to gainful employment, but many of those. education programs, particularly those at for-profit institutions, are not preparing students for gainful employment, leaving them with debt they cannot pay. so for today -- to protect students, they implemented the gainful employment rule, so that students would not take on debt. it worked, data showed institutions were starting to

reduce tuition costs and phaseout those low-quality programs because of the role, yet secretary devos completely rescinded the rule to the detriment of students and taxpayers. hbcu's were not negatively impacted by the gainful implement rules because of their student demographics, according to data from the department of education. the percentage of those at the institutions does not have a meaningful impact to the debt to earnings ratio, so what the gainful implement regulation did was protect students, particularly low income students and students of color from overpriced, low quality programs, particularly at for profit colleges. i am glad the administration will re-regulate and bring back the gainful employment rule and i look forward to working with this administration on this important issue. now turning to questions. we know that it's been established that hbcus are tremendously important to higher education. yet, as chair wilson described

and several of the witnesses confirmed, they have been historically underfunded with endowments lagging behind non hbcus by as much as 70%. hbcus are less likely to be able to buffer lower federal state levels. the most important rule of the federal government in education, and therefore our role as policymakers, is to advance equity. we know that hbcus have played a critical role in providing head -- education opportunities come along before johnson emphasized equity of opportunity with the important higher education act in the mid-1960's. today, institutions of higher education, especially hbcus, need resources and so they can continue to serve as engines of economic mobility for their students and they serve, but unfortunately not all of my colleagues agree with me and some have said they oppose additional federal investments in hbcus.

dr. p, what would you say to someone who despite we have laid out in the testimony, continued to argue we do not to -- need to increase investments in hbcus and other under resourced institutions? dr. perry: i find it hypocritical that many who say they are expanding the economy will not invest in hbcus in the areas, in particular, that they are strong at. we are making the argument that to -- for the workforce as a whole, we need stem graduate. we should be investing in those institutions of the produce stem graduates at a higher level. the other side to this is at that there are many institutions that do not graduate black students well. and i can easily make the argument, the reason why you see an increase in black hbcus is because the pwi's of the world

are not doing their job. rep. bonamici: and, i do not mean to cut you off, but i really want to ask another question to president glover. we know that tennessee state university is doing a lot to help students who arrive on campus in need of additional support. perhaps a students who have attended under resourced k-12 schools. what are you doing to make sure that faculty and staff are prepared to meet the needs of those students who have been through underfunded schools in the k-12 system, and if you could add in the remaining time, how would the enactment of the build back legislation, the build back better legislation, with policies like the extension of the child tax credit, affordable childcare and universal preschool affect children who may be future hbcu students? dr. glover: i can tell you that we are doing quite a bit at tennessee state for students who

come who are not prepared, to answer your question, who are not prepared, assuming that the students are there to get the right knowledge and communication skills and focus on educating them throughout the college career. so, i kind of have forgotten some of that long question. rep. bonamici: the build back better legislation includes policies like affordable childcare, extension of the child tax credit and universal preschool, how would that affect future hbcu students? dr. glover: in a positive way. the build but better act -- build back better act has shown that they have a real appreciation of what hbcus provide, and the nature of the students attending hbcus. so, i think that each one of those elements has a positive tool that will assist hbcus as they develop and grow. rep. bonamici: thank you so much. i apologize for going over.

i yield back. chair wilson: this is a wild hearing. ok, next is dr. foxx. rep. foxx: yes, i am prepared to ask my question. thank you very much. miss sailor, according to data the cohort default rate for hbcus was 13.4% in fy 2018, the highest among all institutional sectors and nearly twice and that of the national average for schools. i'll note the default rates are higher than proprietary institutions, which democrats continually demonize as failing their students. i know that students tend to rely on federal aid at a higher rate, but that should not impact their ability to pay back these loans after school, especially since today we have heard so much about the high percentages of professional people who

graduate from hbcus. so, could you comment on that please? mrs. sailor: yes, dr. foxx. as we look at the demographics of the majority of students attending hbcus, we see that there are a lot of people who are first-time college attendees, if you will, to graduation. and i think that this just, this issue goes back to what happens at the moment that one is accepting a loan. and i think it is critically important that we look at ways to make sure that the financial literacy upscale component is happening at the same time. dr. glover spoke to that in terms of what she is doing at her university in order to help students make those wise decisions.

you know, i think we have got young people who are trying to make decisions for themselves, they do not always have the same consultation from family members who have gone through a similar experience, therefore they are trailblazing. rep. foxx: i will follow up on that. should congress do more to hold student outcomes at schools accountable? mrs. sailor: i think that congress should be working with and looking at policies that encourage both hbcus and non- hbcus to provide that financial literacy and counseling as young people are trying to make decisions that are beyond where they can see at the moment. they need additional support. rep. foxx: institutions of higher education received a significant addition of federal support in response to the challenges posed by covid-19. hbcus and msi's received nearly

$6 billion in additional direct support. this influx of taxpayer dollars was both unprecedented and its size and the speed it was delivered, which makes funds more critical than ever to ensure taxpayer dollars are being used as intended, to help students. do you have any indication, since this committee has not -- has had no oversight on how the money is being spent, do you have an indication of how the hbcus have used covid relief funds? and have some used of the more effectively than others? i only have a little over a minute, so i need a quick answer. mrs. sailor: yes, what we see across the board is hbcus are trying to meet needs of the students who are in dire need. during this moment that we are having as a nation. we see that delivered, howard -- dillard, and north carolina have

created a safer funds and grants from private donors, as well, to help pay tuition. and we see that -- we also see other universities like wilberforce university bolstering private scholarships. so additional funds have helped give enough cushion in order to look at diversifying other avenues to bring money into those institutions. rep. foxx: over the past year, we have also seen several reports of hbcus cleary in the account balances of their students, using covid relief funding. do you think that this is a smart way to teach students fiscal responsibility? and what was the justification for this use, how was the determination made which borrowers needed to be covered? we need to know now if this is an effective use of taxpayer

dollars or is this a transfer of wealth? mrs. sailor: i think that we as a nation experienced a global pandemic, something nobody was expecting. and i do not think we got it all right. and i think as the law allowed for flexibility for hbcus to look at what kind of processes and they were going to use, i think that we got to be able to go back and insist on the transparency of how that was interacting and interfacing, so that as we move forward we can make sure that the models that work are going to be continued to be used and things that did not work so well, be corrected. rep. foxx: thank you. i yield back. chair wilson: thank you. now the chair of the full committee, the distinguished dr. scott of virginia. rep. scott: thank you, madam chair.

certainly i want to thank you for convening this hearing, and we want to think our for being here today. my family is very closely associated with hbcus, my father, mother, two brothers and a sister all attended hbcus, including howard, hampton, fisk virginia state, morehouse and spelman. my great-grandfather, nicholas roberts, after whom i am named, was the interim president at shaw, so i am very closely associated with hbcus. let me first make a quick comment about a comment made by the gentleman from indiana, mr. banks, about what sounded like short-term hell, that we had not taken up his bill. the reason we have not taken it up is because every higher education bill and every workforce development bill that we have considered in the last two or three years has included

a provision for short-term pell. so that his views are well taken and we will look forward to working with him on that. ms. glover, dr. glover, thank you for your testimony. as several have indicated, in the last couple years, we have had unprecedented support for hbcus. can you compare the funding that tennessee state got in the last year and a half compared to what it usually gets historically? and what you were able to do with the money? dr. glover: sure. tennessee state received funds in three categories last year. there's the first higher education emergency fund relief funds, that cares act of that went half to students and have to be university, but we gave a significant number of funds, $23 million.

the second round, the relief a supplemental act, where we got $33 million. the american rescue plan, that was millions. a total of $115 million came in on an emergency basis. we used at that to help students, personal assistance to students, $11 million. there was tuition assistance to the students impacted by the pandemic, that was $21 million. scholarships, $22 million. emergency housing, $20 million. the technical enhancements, the online hybrid learning for students who had to leave and go home all of a sudden, who had no technology devices, low connectivity with broadband, we had to provide technology for those students, the cell phones. they only go so far. you can only go into certain zoom, you cannot do the papers

and modeling, the cell phones only go so far, so we did provide technology devices. so much for the equipment, the ppe. then this semester, this fall, there will be another $40 million. that we will spend we will actually spend all of the money, in total, and we are most appreciative of the funds. i hate to say that it was emergency funding, that is what made us so appreciative. because we were in a state of emergency. rep. scott: it sounds like you got as much from the covid relief bills as you got from tennessee in the last year and a half? dr. glover: indeed. rep. scott: what can we do to increase endowments? i do not have much time to get a coherent answer to that question. but if you can provide that for

the record, i would appreciate it, because that is one thing that has been commented on and we ought to be able to do something about that. and finally, miss baskerville, do you have any comments about the present status of hbcu litigation in terms of whether or not these consent decrees are still in effect and whether states are in compliance? dr. baskerville: they are still in effect. and they are still in compliance with the maryland case. we now have litigation. and the results of that suggest what the states must prove. what we found in the maryland case was, yes, there are still vestiges of discrimination. among the many are infrastructure and also duplication. what it also did was put out a roadmap, so the other 18 public

institutions that are in states where they maintain a dual and unequal higher education system will know what to do. we can now take this and use it with the other decrees. but, i do believe we need to work to make sure that the civil rights has a process in place that does not force you to be in litigation or prelitigation for 40 years. we need, at some point, to intervene once the office of civil rights finds that they are in violation. they put in place the decree, if they do not comply, they need to withhold funds.that appears to be the only thing they will respond to. rep. scott: thank you. for the record, um, i would let you know that the chair, representative wilson and i, we recently wrote these on civil rights, to the department, asking about the status of the litigation and what they are

doing about states and not in compliance. we are following up on the and we appreciate the testimony. i yield back. chair wilson: thank you so much. now the representative from louisiana. welcome. rep. letlow: thank you to all of the witnesses for taking the time to testify before the committee. louisiana is home to several distinguished historically black colleges and universities. hbcus in my state are nationally recognized for their academic programs and contributions to research. i am proud that one of these outstanding hbcus is located in louisiana's fifth congressional district, grambling state university has been educating students in louisiana since 1901. the university offers many strong degree programs, but the school is especially known for its nursing, computer science and teacher education majors. i cannot forget to mention their world famed marching band. this summer, i had the

opportunity to visit grambling's campus to learn about their academic programs. i was especially impressed with their commitment to recruiting black male students to pursue careers as educators out of them entry and secondary schools -- at elementary and secondary schools. at less than 2% of publicly teachers are black males well over 50% of public school students or students of color. grambling is seeking to address this discrepancy by launching a targeted leadership program to increase the number of black male students earning a teaching degree. it is encouraging to see higher education institutions find innovative ways to address workforce issues and i am proud to support grambling's efforts. i would like to now direct my question to miss sailor. you have highlighted the importance for hbcus to leverage public and private partnerships. i believe there is value in establishing these partnerships. what are examples of successful collaboration between hbcus and the private sector?

are there barriers preventing hbcus from leveraging these partnerships? if so, what can be done to remove them? miss sailor: thank you for the question. i actually worked on, many years ago, a proposal, and we almost got it done, with nascar and hbcus. and i will tell you what was successful in that. in terms of being able to connect the resources, the innovation, in terms of giving the students at the hands-on experience -- um, of being able to work in mechanics, if you will, and looking at the engineering degree. and what is essential, i think, as you look at success in terms of the connectivity of both the private and the public sector coming together to try to

execute towards an incredible outcome is the ability, as those projects are coming in into fruition, that they do not get cut off when administration changes. so i think that where we are able to keep a certain amount of continuity, where you have the three parts coming together, it is going to be very helpful in being able to not only measure the long-term outcomes of what can happen, but also able to get to a place of scaling those incredible models out. in terms of its capacity to return on the investment that has been made from the partnership. rep. letlow: a wonderful example, thank you. i yield back. chair wilson: thank you so much. let me let you know that what you said was so amazing, how you

started your testimony, that is why the congressional black caucus has established the commission on the social status of black men and boys. and we agree with you about the teaching shortage, the college attendance, everything that impacts black boys. thank you so much for your testimony. now, ms. adams of north carolina. rep. adams: thank you, madam chair. thank you for your work on hbcus and for holding the long-awaited and much-needed hearing today on hbcus. and thank you to the witnesses for being here. i ask unanimous consent to consent enter into the record the following items, a 2018 government accountability office report that speaks to the improved participation in education's -- in the education of hbcus capital financing program, a 2021 report published

by the century foundation, entitled "achieving financial equity and justice for hbcus." a news article urging congress to examine the importance of investing in the research and development infrastructure of hbcus. and a letter from 37 members of the uncf urging congress to improve reconciliation language affecting hbcus. finally, a report blacks and stem, understanding the issues. it is no secret that i am passionate about hbcus. i'm an advocate, a crowd two-time graduate of north carolina a&t university, both at hbcus. and i remember my personal experience when i came to congress, to vow to make things right for hbcus. a significant piece of legislation i introduced in this

congress, hr 3294, the ignite hbcus excellence act, which really has a support from conservative senators to progressive democrats, and it will revitalize and rejuvenate hbcu campuses. my first question, of hbcus and other institutions of higher instacart -- institutions classified as msi's. other institutions and hbcus are often sorted into the same category for per dissipation in programs and initiatives funded by the federal government. dr. baskerville, you talked briefly -- can you talked briefly about the similarities and differences between hbcus and other types of institutions, in terms of funding and current financial status? dr. baskerville: yes, thank you so very much madame chairwoman. there's similarities in that the hbcus and the tcus and msis,

those are the demographic institutions, the hispanic serving, the tribal colleges, and the pbis. they are similar in the types of students that they are graduating. they are different, tremendously different, in their founding and in their mission. hbcus and tribal colleges and universities are mission based, nonracial, non-ethic institutions. they have no raise criteria, no ethnic criteria, but they have a mission of educating, in the case of hbcus, the progeny of the american slave system and others, and hbcus have done that since their founding. they have been open to all persons who want to excel. a question was asked about diversity of thought, hbcus believe in the diversity of thought, race, ethnicity, creed and at the entire gamut of

diversity. rep. adams: let me move to another question. i only have a couple minutes. can you speak to why funding should be decoupled from mis funding? dr. baskerville: it must be decoupled because hbcus are not like them. they have a special relationship that the u.s. continues to acknowledge, based on slavery, the 200 years of slavery, 200 years since slavery, and other lingering vestiges of discrimination. no other cohort of american colleges has that. for that reason we cannot be clumped with other institutions who are doing a good job, and nafio has fought that got -- get them recognized as minority serving institutions, but because of the uniqueness, the underfunding, the messages that linger today, they must be decoupled. and special programs established for hbcus, because of that. rep. adams: let me ask a dr.

glover, you spoke about institutions not receiving proper matching funding for decades, so how has the lack of matching funds to land grant institutions negatively impacted the resources available to students at these land-grant institutions? dr. glover: it has had a profound effect in that students have not been able to engage in the programming that other schools have had, that similar peer institutions have had. they have not been able to do the extension work they should have been. for example, nashville, there has never been the extension work that's fully funded for tsu. rep. adams: thank you very much. i'm out of time. i will yield back. chair wilson: whatever other questions you may have, submit them to the record and have -- we will have the witnesses respond to them in writing. rep. adams: i will do that. chair wilson: that is for all committee members. thank you.

now, the representative from georgia. welcome. rep. mcbath: thank you for holding this crucial discussion on the continued, essential role that hbcus play in higher education. as well as the continued needed to strengthen and support hbcus. i also thank the witnesses for sharing their time with us. as an alumna of virginia state university, go trojans -- i had to get that in there -- i know intimately the role that hbcus play, not just in individuals' lives, but in the higher education system in america. hbcus served for many decades as one of the only means for african-americans and other minorities to gain a college education. while many educational doors have opened since, hbcus still serve a vital role in educating,

nurturing and advancing american students. without an hbcu education, this woman that you see before you today may never have gone on to become a u.s. congresswoman, representing the great people of georgia's sixth congressional district. nor perhaps with my colleagues be here with me today, representative wilson and also representative adams, both hbc s representatives and graduates. further, the nation may never had had u.s. supreme court justice thurgood marshall, a two-time graduate of hbcus, nor the first female vice president, kamala harris, also an alum. and in my state of georgia, we are home to nine hbcus, the third most in the country, tied with texas. the united negro college fund

found in 2018, georgia's hbcus generated actually $1.3 billion in total economic impact to the state, and generated over 12,000 jobs. hbcus have provided so much to this country and its accomplishments, that is why it is imperative that we provide continued funding to hbcus. by doing so, we invest, not just in these institutions, but in the future of the country. my question is for dr. baskerville.research shows hbcus have higher success rates when compared to other four-year institutions with similar enrollments of pell students. after controlling for pell enrollments, the average institutional graduation rate for black students at hbcus was 38%. compared with 32% for non hbcus.

what is it about the academic experience that is provided by hbcus that helps students attending these institutions to have better outcomes than their peers attending non-hbcus. dr. baskerville: thank you for the question. hbcus are -- most importantly, they are offering diverse courses and curricula that will prepare the students for tomorrow's labor force, tomorrow's service force and the like, but many are doing it in smaller, nurturing environments. doing it in environments where proportionately more of the faculty, than you find at white institutions, are persons of color, people who have come from their background, their culture and did they share a common

teeth those. they are bringing -- ethos. they are bringing to the table to academic peace, but they also have the civic, the service and the spiritual aspect, meaning encouraging students to celebrate something above and beyond themselves. additionally, they are richly diverse. hbcus have about a 70% students who are african ancestors and about 30% who are not, so great diversity. and they are improving, as others are. the faculty are even more diverse. those that believe in a smaller environment, excellent environment, costs are contained and diversity, they look to hbcus, where we welcome persons of all backgrounds, all interests, and certainly those who believe in different philosophies, as was discussed previously. rep. mcbath: thank you. i yield the rest of my time to

my colleague, alma adams. rep. adams: thank you for yielding. dr. glover, you talked about the neglect that our campuses have had, what financial resources are required to rectify the neglect? dr. glover: on my campus, we are seeking to get to $544 million that we need, in tennessee. but if you look across the board at hbcus, the neglect in deferred maintenance, in infrastructure, the academic programs, it's going to average in a significant number across campuses. rep. adams: i yield back. i am out of time. chair wilson: thank you so much. we'll ask ms. glover if she will respond in writing to your questions. so that all committee members will have that response.

i need to make an announcement that is beyond our control. we tried to make this work, but dr. glover has a meeting at the white house. the vice president of the united states and the national panel lending council. so we will excuse her now, as she serves in both capacities. dr. glover, you are excused. dr. glover: thank you. chair wilson: i have a text from the white house. we'll see what the next person has to say, the representative from connecticut. miss hayes of connecticut. representative stevens? rep. stevens: madam chair, i am here. thank you for letting me come to today's incredible hearing. the testimony were just

instrumental. and i want to thank you, madam chairwoman, and all the members of the subcommittee, as we have discussed for a century and a half our hbcus have been a critical source of producing workforce diversity. and i am so grateful that we are here today, addressing their systemic underutilization and underfunding, especially as it pertains to r&d, innovation and other critical economic development needs. i'm also proud to cosponsor the legislation from our esteemed chair of another incredible committee here on -- in labor, the legislation to make historic

investments in hbcus. i would like to take my time and yield it to congresswoman adams from the great state of north carolina. rep. adams: thank you. i thank the gentlelady for yielding. and i do want to talk a little bit about the research of the institutions. dr. baskerville, of the 131 schools classified as research one institutions by the carnegie classification of institutions of higher education, none of them are hbcus. there are 11 hbcus, including my oma modern, which is the largest public university, which are among 135 schools classified as r2, of research universities, indicating that they have higher research activities. what actions can the federal government take, both in the short-term term and in the long-term, to develop multiple

r1 hbcus? dr. baskerville: thank you. in the short term, we need very much to have investments in our infrastructures. that will make sure that they have broadband, and laboratories and all of the things that are essential to continuing to do the work that they are doing, as very impressive research to institutions, but they must be able to have the roads, the laboratories, the community access for laboratories, as well. you need at in the short term. you also need, in the short-term, about $200 million in an epscor-like program that will bear the resources of the scientific department of defense, national science foundation and other scientific departments and agencies to put

resources toward them in recognition of the fact that we're just 11 institutions, and they are principally responsible for graduating 42% of blacks with advanced degrees in the science, technology engineering and mathematics with advanced degrees in education professions. and disproportionate in health professions. we need them more than ever. we see what they are doing with woefully low investments. and epscor is a program that the department of defense is presently involved in with other scientific entities for the express purpose of bringing online additional institutions. it would be tremendous to start with hbcus, because of their output, because of the disproportionate output. they also have a success rate higher than any others in moving

persons from the lowest 20% of the quartile, up -- their economic impact. rep. adams: thank you. in the last few minutes that we have, i want to mention because i have heard several of our speakers talk about not being able to find -- students of color, african-american students. and i want to put out there that the bipartisan hbcu caucus has a partnership challenge, we now have almost 70 corporate individuals and entities involved, where we help make those partnerships work with these institutions that we are in touch with each and every day. i want to invite any of the folks listening to become members of the bipartisan hbcu partnership, because it does work and it is making a difference for our schools. and i thank the lady for

yielding back. i yield. chair wilson: thank you, miss adams. now the representative from maryland. thank you for being with us our entire meeting. we appreciate it. and your support. rep. mfume: thank you very much. chair wilson: we know your background, we know why you have been on the whole time. rep. mfume: thank you. my thanks to the ranking minority member for holding the hearing. obviously, i think it is important, and so does everyone on the call, otherwise we would not be here. i want to preface my remarks by calling your attention to a new york times article, rather lengthy, and wilson probably be the history of this university because it details the celebration and a significance of the 150th anniversary of the fisk jubilee singers, and wit

they and at that university have meant to this country. it is a great article and i would command everybody's attention to it. i want to also, if i might, in the sense of being redundant and transparent, say a couple things -- i would be remiss if i did not acknowledge representative adams for her stewardship of hbcu issues and educational issues in general, and to also thank the chair, bobby scott, for his leadership in this area. and the fact that there has not been a significant piece of legislation dealing with higher ed or pre-k-12 that he has not been a part of overall these many years. thank you both. to be transparent, i am a graduate of morgan state university in both mark, a hbc s college. was able to find a way to matriculate at a tough time and i got a degree that prepared me later for my other education work and my other attempts to

matriculate. we have informed four years after lincoln signed the immense patient proclamation and have been graduating students as many of you are aware with your own institutions, for a long time. we are hopefully two years or three years away from gaining r1 status through carnegie, we are working hard to do that. we have a bond rating, we have produced more fulbright scholars than 90% of the other institutions that exist. and we are on our way to opening and creating a school of osteopathic medicine to complement the other aspects of the campus. i wanted to say all of that to say that there was preparation for me, as there is first so many young people today, by going to a historically black college and university often times, because they have not been able to go anywhere else. i do want to -- i do have

questions for the witnesses -- i want to thank them for their testimony and i want to respond to a couple things that i heard, madam chair. i think it is important for us to pay attention to this notion of research dollars, as was brought up before by mr. perry. whether it is nasa or anyone else granting the research dollars, that competitive "competition" really has to be competitive and free of influence, because often times institutions get through the first round, then the second round, that is when the decision is oftentimes made, made based on whether you are familiar with that name, that school or something else. so we see in awkward shift that has gone on for years in terms of the research dollars. patents is another area that i hope the committee focuses on, because there is a great deal of funding and opportunity there.

but more importantly, there is a great deal that can be contributed by hbcus. on the matter of deferred maintenance, to the extent we are able to pass the build back better act, i am hoping -- and perhaps it might be constructive to not just jope, but to also -- hope, but to also signal to college presidents all over the place at that some of that money that is free to be used without discussion should go straight toward deferred maintenance, because we cannot keep deferring maintenance. any college president will tell you that it simply is something that is going to happen, and it is going to happen in the worst way if we do not take care of it. i know there was a comment about why there's more black women in the colleges and universities as opposed to black men, 35% to 65%, or something like that. prior to 1976, for the previous 100 years from 1876, it was the

reverse. in those days it was sexism. these days it is peer pressure and prison and other things that often times give us those kinds of numbers. if we look at the decision in mississippi, 12 years ago, or the maryland decision where we took the state to court for 16 years before getting a settlement of $577 million, one thing is clear, that is the fight for hbcus is in desperate need for more persons to line-up as allies. hbcus, this is my final point, there is nothing inconsistent about that. people will say you do not need hbcus, you do not need them, we have outlived them and we can do things better because you can go anywhere. oftentimes you cannot because of prejudices that exist below the surface, that go to a number of

intangibles of that have been spoken about today. as long as there is a harvard and yale that remain wasp, even though others attend, that is not considered inconsistent. even though there is a brandeis and yeshiva, that remains jewish, even though others attend, that is not considered inconsistent. even though there is a notre dame that remains essentially catholic, even though others may attend, and logic tells me that we should have a morehouse and hampton and a howard and fisk and other colleges and universities that are holding down a historic mission to make sure that no one is left behind, i do not have time now -- i have exhausted my time, but thank you for allowing me to get in things at the conclusion of this meeting. chair wilson: that was a keynote address, so i will keep that -- it has been recorded. and you will hear it over and

over and over as we move forward with the commission on the social status of black men and boys. and you are way out of time. [laughter] i remind my colleagues that pursuant to the committee practice, materials for submission for the hearing record must be submitted to the committee clerk within 14 days following the last day of the hearing. so, by close of business on october 20, 2021, preferably in microsoft word format, the materials must address the subject of the hearing. only a member of the subcommittee or an invited guest may submit materials for inclusion in the hearing record. documents are limited to 50 pages each. documents a longer than 50 pages will be incorporated into the record by way of an interlink that you must provide to the

committee clerk within the required timeframe, but please recognize that in the future the link may no longer work. pursuant to house rules and regulations, items for the record it should be submitted to the clerk electronically by emailing submissions to ed and labor.hearing. again, i want to thank these amazing, headstrong witnesses for their participation today. you were fantastic. we learned all that we possibly could digest about hbcus. and i appreciate your participation. members of the subcommittee may have additional questions for you, and we ask the witnesses to please respond to those questions in writing. the hearing record will be held

open for 14 days in order to receive those responses. i remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, witnesses, witness questions for the hearing record must be submitted to the majority committee staff or committee clerk within seven days. the questions submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing. i now recognize the distinguished ranking member, dr. murphy, for our closing statement. rep. murphy: thank you so much, madam chair. i would like to say to my colleague representative mfume that those were fabulous comments. i agree with the chairwoman wilson. i agree when money is spent, we should deal with deferred maintenance because so many institutions, not just hbcus, really needed that capital improvements.

and i think it needs it more than going into the programs. so i do support that statement and i want to thank all of the witnesses. it was a very good discussion and i appreciate the chairman for calling this. some other points to finish up. it is important that congress continues to recognize how hbcus have provided students. it's equally important to know that congress will support their mission. over the last 18 months, these institutions were provided billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars, which served as a temporary lifeline to mitigate what was happening in the pandemic. without a doubt, businesses, institutions, churches, benefited and are alive today because of the money congress appropriated. the fact of the matter is higher education is changing, more students are demanding learning opportunities and credential offerings outside of the

traditional four-year model, and covid-19 accelerated that trend. this will require higher education institutions to change as well, including hbcus, providing more and more money is not the answer, in my opinion. calls for additional funding often ignore the interest of the taxpayers. we have to be smart about the money given to colleges and institutions, and accountability needs to be paramount. the taxpayer wallets are not unlimited. we should build off the initiatives of the previous administration, encouraged hbcus to be innovative, like other institutions, such as fostering public provided or public and private partnerships that will provide a more stable and reliable business model that gives educational opportunities to the students more reliably and honestly. doing so will ensure their longevity so they can continue to serve students for generations to come. thank you again to the witnesses. great comments occurred today. i will yield back.

chair wilson: thank you. i want to thank the witnesses again. and i now recognize myself for the purpose of making closing statements. before i do that, keep in mind that 1886, in 1886, the first hbcu was built. and some of the dormitories, some of the student union buildings, remain the same. and we have to keep that in mind. when i went to the university, university fisk, we had a shower on the hallway, a group shower, a group bathroom.

now, our schools that we have to compete with, each dormitory room has a bathroom. there were -- we had no kitchen. now, our new dormitories on our competing institutions have kitchens, a group kitchen. i had a little tiny refrigerator. and a little tiny, uh, hot pla te. there were no, uh, nothing else. just a little hot plate sometimes would cause fires in the dormitory. so, these hbcus have not been able to keep up for visa centuries th -- for these centuries and that they have been built.

let's keep that in mind. this is a way to bring all that to the forefront, and a way for all of us to know and understand that we are not being selfish. we are being pragmatic and realistic. and we, as members of congress, have to make a difference. i want to thank the witnesses and i want you to know that today we reflected on the historical roots of historically black colleges and universities, and exam in their continued contributions to our higher education system. for generations, hbcus have provided our students, particularly black and low income students, with the support of community and opportunities for economic mobility. unfortunately, as r witnesses shared, -- our witnesses shared, and our congressional members,

hbcus continue to experience persistent challenges, including systemic underfunding, chronic state disinvestment, and discriminatory funding policies that have left hbcus to achieve far more with far less. we must continue to invest in hbcus, and their students. to this end, congress has delivered $6.5 billion to hbcus over the last year and a half. most recently through the committee's portion of the build back better act, we have approved over $30 billion in funding that will support these institutions. however, far more -- keep this in mind -- far more is needed to correct it decades, centuries of underfunding and historic

inequities. and i will continue to work with my colleagues on this committee, education and labor, the entire committee, to champion solutions to these pressing challenges. in light of the unique mission and history of hbcus, i firmly believe that investing in these institutions and their students is one of the most significant actions we can take to right the wrongs of the past. that's -- in our communities, there is a lot of discussion and debate about reparations taking place in the african-american community, in a variety of settings -- from the beauty shops, barber shops and in social circles. wherever i go, that is all people want to ask me about. congresswoman wilson, why do you

want to study reparations? what are you going to learn? study how? i have always felt the solution must be education. me, congresswoman frederica wilson. soon, i plan to file legislation that will help students who have been impacted by the legacy of slavery to cover the cost of attendance to any of our nation's hbcus. and i know every student does not want to attend an hbcu, but those that do, i consider this investment to be long overdue. and will ensure that any descendant of enslaved americans can a debt free higher education

at a world-class institution. i have been even toying with the idea of targeting the most endangered human being in america, black boys. please, i ask you to let me know of your thoughts. mr. chairman, once i file this bill, i hope that we can bring the bill to a markup. congress has a responsibility to address the enduring impact of slavery and it decades of discriminatory policy, including how these factors have contributed to a sizable, racial wealth gap. i look forward to working with my colleagues on this committee and all of the relevant stakeholders, to ensure that

hbcus not only survive, but continue to thrive and grow for decades to come. we will need innovative and transform -- and transformative solutions to truly provide these historic institutions with the support they need and deserve. thank youthank you again our wi. if there is no further business, without objection, this subcommittee stands event

hosted by politico. >> hello, everyone. i'm a congressional reporter at politico, focused on covering the house, and more specifically, house republicans. you may also know my name from previously writing the newsletter. forever final conversation of the day, i want to introduce congresswoman maria elvira salazar. congressman salazar took office in 2020, when the gop added more than a dozen more women to its ranks.