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>> the subcommittee on higher education and workforce investment will come to order. welcome, everyone. i note that a core of his present. i note on the subcommittees that mrs. adams of north carolina, mrs. mc bath of georgia, ms. hayes of connecticut, mrs. stevens of michigan and mister 4 in a of maryland are participating in today's hearing with the understanding that their questions will only come after all members of the subcommittee on both sides of the aisle have had an opportunity to question the witnesses. the subcommittee unity is hearing testimony on homecoming, the historical roots and continued contributions of hbc you. this is an entirely remote hearing. our microphones will be kept

muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary background noise. members and witnesses will be responsible for a needing themselves and they are recognized to speak or when they wish to seek recognition. i also ask members please identify themselves before they speak. members should keep their cameras on while in the proceedings. members shall be considered presence in the proceedings when they are visible on camera and they shall be considered not present when they are not visible on camera. the only exception to this is if they are experiencing technical difficulties and inform committee staff of such difficulties. if any member experiences technical difficulties during the hearing, you should stay connected on the platform.

make sure you are muted and use your phone to immediately call the committee whose number was provided to you in advance. should the chair, that is me, experienced technical difficulty or need to step away to vote on the floor, as a member of the subcommittee for another majority member of the subcommittee, mister bowman, if she is not available. they are hereby authorized to swing the gavel in the chair's absence. this is an entirely remote hearing and as such the committee's hearing room is officially closed. members who choose to assist with their individual devices in the hearing room must wear headphones to avoid feedback, echoes and distortion, one

person on the software platform sitting in the same room. members are also expected to adhere to social distancing and safe healthcare guidelines including the use of mass, hand sanitizer's and wiping down the areas both before and after in the hearing room and in order to ensure the committee's 5 minute rule is adhered to, staff will be keeping track of time, using the committee's digital timer which appears in its own thumbnail picture. members and witnesses asked to wrap up when their time has expired or i will gavel you to close.

pursuant to committee's opening statements are limited to the chair and the ranking member. this allows us to hear from our witnesses sooner and provide all members with adequate time to ask questions. i now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement. today we are meeting to explore the unique role that black colleges and universities play in expanding access to affordable high quality education. is a graduate of this university i am proud to chair this first hearing to exclusively examine the state

of vital institutions since 2008 and as chair of the higher education and workforce investment subcommittee i am committed to investing the present meanings of our nation's hbc news and their students including infrastructure, modernization, improved research capabilities, financial assistance to reduce economic barriers and illuminate food, housing insecurity and investments to account for decades, decades, decades of gross underfunding. hbc you has been at the very heart of our nation's long-standing education and racial equity failures but 200 years they have provided letters of economic and social mobility as safe havens for

generations of black students. in fact hbc you establish for the specific purpose of educating black students because other institutions would not and refuse, the majority were founded in the wake of the emancipation proclamation to serve formerly enslaved black americans as is my institution, this university. these institutions have survived jim crow era segregation, indoor discrimination and decades, decades, decades of persistent

underinvestment so today hbc yous remain in trickle to promoting the academic, social and economic success of the defendants of enslaved americans and fostering community for underrepresented student population including black students. remarkably while hbc you's accounts are only 3% of all colleges and universities they have graduated 80% of black judges, 70% of black doctors, 50% of black teachers, and 50% of the members of the congressional black caucus and other black members of congress.

unfortunately many states chronically underfunded hbc yous compares to other institutions leading them to achieve far more with far less. this in equitable treatment dates back to the 1800s but continues today. hbc you is still recovering from sweeping cuts to higher education funding in 2008 recession which disproportionately affected their canvases. the recent proliferation of state performance-based funding policies disadvantaged a piece yous making resources, disparities even worse. additionally we -- of the endowments held by private hbc yous are less than one third

the size of those held by private non-hbc yous. to fulfill our nation's promise of higher education for all people, all children congress must provide hbc yous with the resources and support they need to come back -- combat systemic underfunding and discrimination. since march of 2020 congress has secured $6.5 billion in hbc you funding including $5 billion in covid relief and $1.6 billion to forgive capital financing laws. these historic investments provided emergency aid to help students access essentials like

food, housing, and allowed 20 hbc yous to erase student debt and just last month our committee advanced a portion of the build back better act which included over $30 billion in higher education investments that benefit hbc you. these investments are critical steps towards decades of systemic underinvestment. however, let us not forget we recognize that we still have a long way to go, to correct historic, historic inequities in hbc you funding. thanks to these pivotal institutions we can all benefit

from the contribution of such luminaries as mary macleod my role model, w e b du bois, langston hughes, doctor martin luther king jr. thurgood marshall, katherine johnson, toni morrison, congressman john lewis who went to fisk university with me and vice president kamala harris. we must preserve and protect hbc yous for the sake of the next generation of changemakers. and for those yet unborn. so i look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure that hbc you receive the support they need so that we can assure that happens.

additionally in the future we will hold hearings that showcase the contributions and accomplishments of tribal colleges and universities and minority serving institutions which also play an important role in the higher education landscape. i want to thank our distinguished witnesses again for being with us today and now yields to the distinguished ranking member, doctor murphy, for his opening statement. doctor murphy. >> thank you madam chairman for those excellent remarks. i want to thank members of the committee coming to testify before us. historically black colleges are an important and critical landscape to that of higher education. for decades these institutions provided black americans with

unique opportunities to pursue their degree and become a vital force for almost 200 years hbc yous embodied the true american spirit and overcome immeasurable challenges and hardships. today 100 hbc yous play a vital role in their communities and are pivotal in the education of our nation's future leaders, this includes elizabeth city state university in my third congressional district which i'm proud to represent. i will say i visited the university many times and met their chancellor carrie dixon who is a rock star, she is a true gem in the world of academia the institution to develop smart minds that have critical thinking that seek out opportunity and succeed so my

hat is off to carry and the shout out there but yet the financial stress brought by covid 19 is requiring many institutions to take a hard look at their business models and hbc yous are no exception, colleges and universities need to begin asking the difficult questions including those about financial accountability and viability. one thing we must know government intervention oftentimes does more harm than good. this is especially true in education. we must encourage all institutions of higher education including hbc yous to become more self-reliant and more accountable. reliance on the federal government for funding is inherently unstable. while we support these institutions we believe they must develop sustainable funding mechanisms on their own to ensure their longevity. this goes for hbc yous as well as all other educational institutions which as is often the case more money is not the answer and does not address the underlying root causes of problems that face higher

education, higher institutions of higher education. these colleges and universities already receive a tremendous amount of federal aid. in 2019 alone congress provided hbc yous along with other minority serving institutions mandatory funding stream on top of their annual appropriation. additionally, since march of 2020 hbc yous and msn i received an additional $6 billion in targeted direct aid on top of annual funding received through the higher education apps. this includes $1 billion in the cares act funding, $1.7 billion in the coronavirus response and release implementation appropriation act, $3 billion in american rescue plan funds and additional $1.6 billion in capital financing loan charges. even with this massive amount of spending some folks, senator corey book ran bernie sanders want to see the number increased by another $100 billion with president

biden's build back agenda which proposes an additional $30 billion in additional spending on hbc yous, this is these additional funds are questionably absurd. federal funding may provide temporary support, we must encourage hbc yous like every other institution to be more innovative, develop strategic business models that work with the private sector to help students complete their programs and excel in the workforce. just as with any other educational institution also cannot be exempt from accountability. any institution receiving tax dollars must be held to a high standard, underperforming hbc yous as well as any other educational institution should not be propped up by federal dollars indefinitely when they are not being accountable. we must be sure all institutions better serve their students. easy access to taxpayer dollars

creates perverse incentives for these institutions to hike tuition costs. i have spoken extensively on administrative finances that hbc yous are not exempt from this discussion. knowing the federal government will subsidize price hikes allow institutions to justify indiscriminate spending on this administrative, unnecessary programs. taxpayer dollars are not meant to improve students educational outcomes and experiences, not the salaries of additional staff and administrators. we encourage hb yous to increase and diversify their funding streams and get their institutions on stronger financial footing. we all want them to succeed, to continue to educate future generations. thank you, madam chairman, i yield back. >> thank you, doctor murphy. i will now introduce the witnesses.

these amazing and brilliant change agents with our first witness is doctor leslie baskerville, the ceo of the national association for equal opportunity in higher education. a membership and advocacy association for representing hbc yous and predominately black institutions. baskerville served as appellate counsel at the committee for civil rights and the law, national legislative challenges for the naacp and administrative appeals judge in the district of columbia. she's a graduate of howard university school of law in douglas college. welcome, doctor baskerville. unmute.

>> thank you very much, subcommittee chairwoman wilson and ranking member murphy. i saw earlier but don't see now chairman scott and chairman scott and ranking member virginia foxx. to my honor to be here today especially to be here on the birthday of activist fannie lou hamer, and to you, madam chairwoman, today, which is jubilee day at this university which you understand and recognize and celebrate, on this day in 1871, 9 courageous and determined fisk university students joined with the professor of music and the

treasurer, left the safe confines of the 40 acre campus to go out and begin a tradition of raising money to keep the doors of fisk university open and to this day this university is open, jubilee singers are revered part of the legacy and contemporary offering of this university. i also am delighted to be here today on the day in which doctor a jamison, the first african-american woman to be admitted into nasa was inducted into the national women's hall of fame, joyous occasion, great jubilee and wonderful homecoming. i'm privileged to hear -- be here to talk initially quickly about the history of hbc yous and their unique relationship

with america and three things we need to do from here. you already heard quite a bit about the history of hbc yous, they are unique in that they are the only american cohort of universities that were founded by persons who had been prevented, taken from their homeland in the most horrific conditions and brought to america against their will with thousands dying from the time they left their land to the time they got here, when they got here they were stripped of their families, their culture, their language, all things familiar to them and as they went through the most unimaginable circumstances, one thing they kept their mind on was education, so they got education, their minds, spirits

and hearts on the importance of education to get them where they needed to be. from this horrific beginning we began to see the abolitionists, faith institutions establishing colleges and universities as well as schools, saw with the introduction of low morale act the introduction into this landscape of public colleges and universities for the express purpose of allowing black people to attend those schools because in america blacks were not ready to go to school with white persons, 1862 land grant institutions and under the morale act congress stepped in and recognized -- the court suggested it was unlawful to have public institutions for white students

and blacks and if they were going to maintain them they would start institutions for black and they did but there was no mandate they fund them equally or equitably and they did not and so that be in a long and stony road of litigation legislation, administrative fiats and executive orders that brought us to the point where we are today and where we are today is we are grateful to the united states congress for bipartisan and bicameral support the god hbc you wills more dollars and historic investment of $6.5 billion in 2020 alone, and additional dollars in the last month. we are grateful those dollars have enabled hbc you to begin,

to continue their long and stony road toward equitable funding. you heard from the chair and some others the things our schools have been able to do but what we don't have now is understanding about -- hbc yous are not minority serving institutions, they are historically black, born of the history unlike other groups of people in america, but they are not minority serving institutions, there is no requirement, race, ethnicity criterion. that is important because over the years as we developed groups of demographic minorities and others, wanted to make sure that all underrepresented students were admitted into excellent and diverse institutions. we created programs for them. demographic minority institutions which apc yous are

not, somehow clumped together and i want to talk during q&a about how we decouple hbc you because of our special relationship with america. we got the strengthening institutions, provisions in the higher education act in 1986 because -- 1968 because of recognition -- aberrant treatment by america of hbc yous and their core base through the years, 200 years and now additional 200 years. recognition of that we have executive orders, legislation, administrative fiats including apparent executive order that recognize the appealing message of the discriminations so i'm going to talk about that in things we can do but in the limited time remaining i want

to suggest three things we do, where we are, we are at a point where institutions are stronger today than they were yesterday but in spite of the infusion of capital and investments, we talk about these we are not talking hbc you being given up anything, hbc yous are the cornerstone of america. america cannot realize her educational economic goals or wealth goals or health goals, sustainability goals. the data that we talked about and because of the fact that without hbc yous there is no excellent diverse working class. >> the chairwoman is trying to get your attention. >> i'm sorry. the chairwoman is trying to get your attention. speaker, frederick. >> your time has expired. >> i'm so sorry, thank you. i look forward to entertaining your questions.

>> thank you. our second witness is doctor andre parry, senior fellow with the brookings institution metropolitan policy program resident of american university and economist. prior to joining, he served as associate professor of the university of new orleans department of educational leadership. doctor parry earned his phd in education policy and leadership from the university of maryland and daf allegheny college. welcome. >> good afternoon distinguished members of the subcommittee. thank you for inviting me to testify on what i consider a national security. from the industrial revolution in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to the

tech boom of the last decade government investments developed by a wide swath of americans make the united states a sustained global power but our standing as a world leader in innovation and technology is at risk was the lack of recognitions and investment in black innovators runs alongside the outlay in the innovation economy overall. federal research development investment has been in decline for 60 years sapping health, science and educational investigations encoding hbc yous of resources needed introduce new products and services to the public. the lack of r&d investments is reflected in regional and racial imbalances that show half of r&d spending flow to 6 states in addition to these geographic disparities, there are stark racial gaps.

lists than one% of federal r&d expedition went to historically black colleges and universities in 2019. likewise my colleagues and i found 7.4% of nsf and 6.6% of naag grant awards flowed to black and latino innovators far below those group share in the population. the lack of investment is sapping wealth and opportunity from individuals to these institutions. on top of a wealth gap it sees the average white family 10 pounds of wealth as the average black family we see similar disparities at the institutional level was the combined endowment for every hbc when the country through 2019 was $3.9 billion. for context, new york university alone had an endowment of $4.3 billion that year as we cut our noses to spite our face when we don't

invest in the assets that spur economic and social mobility. lack of investment in hbc yous flies in the face of research that showed us these institutions above their weight when it comes to developing a talent society needs. according to a recent mckinsey report even though hbc yous make up 3% of the colleges and universities in the us they account for 10% of all matriculating black people. the same 3% produced 17% of all bachelors degrees and 24% of all stem related bachelors degrees awarded to the nation's black region. that productivity among hbc yous generates $14.8 billion in economic impact annually according to a study by the college advocacy group the un cf. hdc you's continued to produce the high share of the nation's black doctors, judges, engineers and other

professionals as representative wilson mentioned. hbc yous developed this talent in spite of this investment. for instance earlier this year a committee established in the tennessee legislature determined that hbc yous never received an estimated $500 million it had been entitled to from the state funding formula. similarly in maryland after a 13 year legal battle the general assembly recently agreed to give $577 million to morgan state university as well as the university of maryland eastern shore. we should be investing to expand the economy, institutions like community college, one of the nation's two your hbc yous located in mobile, alabama. we should be investing in funds to support business incubation

it hbc yous, successful models such as ohhub, opportunity hope, atlanta-based pre-accelerator that works with hbc yous to support tech entrepreneurs. the debate over what counts as infrastructure continues to unfold, too many people ignore the fact that the real undergirding of the 21st-century infrastructure including upgrading power grids, sustainable energy, requires investments in stem talent. therefore if we want to jumpstart the innovation economy we must invest in the underappreciated people, places and institutions that can yield significant growth. that means investing in hbc yous. i look forward to questions later on. change we also know that there are some that still do not have air-conditioning as you speak

about broadband, that is totally unacceptable. third witness is angela saylor, vice president of the edwin j fuller institute at the heritage foundation where she manages the state to for american studies and center for civil society and the american dialogue. she served as chief of staff to heritage president kate james, the white house office of public liaison. and as deputy chief of staff at the us department of education she holds a doctorate from the university of this, master's degree from the american university and bachelor of arts degree from central state university. welcome. >> thank you. thank you, chairman scott and ranking member doctor fox,

thank you, subcommittee chairwoman wilson and subcommittee ranking member doctor murphy for the opportunity to testify today. my name is angela saylor, vice president of the edwin j fuller institute of the heritage foundation. ladies and gentlemen, we can make no mistake. the contributions of historically black colleges and universities are invaluable. according to the united negro college fund, graduates of our historic institution pulled fully a quarter of all science, technology, engineering, mathematics degrees earned by african-americans, 12.5% of all black ceos and lawyers are hbc you grads and i'm so proud to say i am one of them. like other institutions of higher learning hbc yous have worked to whether the pandemic

i foraging new partnerships with the public and private sectors. the higher education emergency relief fund, part of the cares act, provided $1 billion in grants for hbc yous and other msis suffering hardship due to covid 19. prior to the pandemic donald trump signed into law the future act making permanent 255 million in mandatory funding for hbc yous and other msis. as a result over the past several years hbc yous have seen an infusion of additional federal funding. as doctor martin luther king reminds us we are not nations of history but we are made by history. one of the great lessons american leaders of learned from covid 19 is crazy use creep like a thief in the night to constraint with ingenuity

and innovation. as the mounting national debt becomes more unsustainable. consequences of vendor spending to stifle future opportunity for the next generation. additional federal spending continues to be our reality colleges must take the opportunity to leverage resources to the greatest and highest use. in such turbulent times, colleges have an opportunity to prioritize programming to reinvest resources and advance their core mission. the national center for education statistics notes the total revenue for hbcus during the 2017-18 academic year was $8.7 billion with $1.9 billion from fees. the hbc you revenue model, with

financial aid. very few have cultivated large endowments and this has led some to doubt the ability of hbc you to sustain best in class leadership and compete with others. the department of education financing, provides 500 million loans to hbc you as a temporary bridge, giving flexibility to diversify revenue streams, expand private sector partnerships and realign their program offerings to more closely mirror the projected workforce needs. colleges nationwide can expand sustainability to private-sector collaboration and congress has a role to play, policies drive down cost and allow innovation to flourish. time for the federal policy to

fundamentally rethink how higher education is finding the man deliver toward policies the lower costs for students. hbc yous and non-hbc yous alike, innovative policy like income share accounts agreements and accreditation reform, meeting the needs of industry and academia while being stewards of students impact their resources, then generations to come. federal subsidies help colleges focus on their core academic mission while helping students with less debt. today's 101 hbc yous, with the graduate, invaluable institutions for the ultimate measure of the vitality and strength, the ability of its people and its institutions to

prevail in times of challenge and adversary. >> the research that is so important, the hbcu that is missing. now we hear from glenn glover, the president of tennessee state university and hbcu which brings it right home at nashville, tennessee. she is also the international president of sorority, my sorority and that's the sorority of vice president kamala harris. previously, the dean of college at jackson state university at

hbcu in jackson, mississippi, served -- she received her jd from georgetown university. the phd, from george washington university. she earned an mba, and va from tennessee state university. welcome. >> ranking member murphy, ranking member foxx and ranking member of the comedy, thank you for allowing hbc -- this on hbcus. with tennessee state versus nashville. tennessee state is a land-grant

hbcu, 8000 students, at the bachelor levels. to reach the goals that strive sustainable hbcus. and the health gap, the economic gap. hbcus, with continuous challenges and resources for example as has been said. hbcus about 3% of colleges in the country produced 22% of bachelors degrees, and african-american schools, they earn each year for

african-american, by hbcus, 50% of members of the congressional black caucus, and the vice president of these united states graduated from hbcus. 7% less than applied institutions hbcus, more with less. with valued proposition and ascribed funding leaves. the build back better act is a game changer that reflects the administration's understanding of the importance of investing in hbc yous and continues resolving the challenge that threatens the general welfare and prosperity of the country. we want to thank congress.

as the funds available for a high your education, when they have to return to their homes and math through online, many had limited activities with technology devices, by technology devices assisting financially. hbcu capital financial program, eliminating debt, we thank you. so today we continue financial support of hbcus, investing hbcus to help us become more competitive and sustainable for the national economy. hbcus are found in 185 years ago to educate, hbcus remain at

the front line of educating students who need access through transformative power of highway protection. and adequate facilities. we are active in your system. we need funds in separate hearings, funds such as deferred maintenance, infrastructure, technology, academic programs and research. finally, we are often asked the question about hbcus, that is the wrong question. the question is how do these towns and universities produced so much and how can the model be used for other institutions to advance our great country. that is the question. at hbcus we see black excellence at its best, support

for students they serve and close the gap by making much-needed investments in hbcus that address historically discrimination and funding and put hbcus on equal footing with majority of institutions. never too late to do what is right. >> if i didn't also note that doctor adams, the other hand lady is a member of our for alpha sorority also and proud to have her national president here with us today. under committee full 98, we now question witnesses under the 5 minute rule. i will be recognizing some committee members in seniority order. again, to ensure the 5 minute rule is adhered to staff will

be keeping track of time and a timer will sound when time has expired. please pay attention to the time, wrap up when your time is over and leave in your microphone. as chairwoman i now recognize myself for five minutes. doctor barber, can you elaborate on the systemic underfunding and impact that continues at tennessee state university where points show the state of you $524 million due to historical underfunding? >> thank you. the land-grant institutions, there are two in tennessee,

tennessee state and university of tennessee, these institution revolve around teaching and practical at the culture, when i became president we looked at the distributing issue. ..we look at the funny the othr land-grant had received and wondered why there was no match for tennessee state university. additionally, there was additional funding required that the state had a ruling that tennessee state would receive one third of the amount of funds that the other institution received. there was nothing in the budget for tennessee state, nothing. there was nothing in the budget for tennessee state, nothing. for 50 years there was nothing in the budget. this speaks of a meaningful areas we can get to but the underfunding was back in 1950s to the present and the number

came to 150 million. workers, , workers state legislatures, we're currently working with the committee that was put together last fall to ensure that tsu enter into conversations about the money that it owed and we made some success on that. i can really say where we are at this particular point in time with the dollar amounts that owed to tsu but we do believe we're making some progress. >> thank you so much, andil i suppose, dr. baskerville, that is true of other underfunded hbcus. is there more that congress and the administration can do, dr. baskerville, to helper these hbcus as they compete for critical funds? they graduate with substantially high levels of debt than their

peers, and we want them, hbcus, to have research dollars and scholarships. >> what can congress do? >> yes, madam chair, i'll answer the question what i'd like to set up in the context that what we have with tennessee state university is not unique. in fact, it is part of a pattern and practice of du jour discrimination against public historically black college, particularly the 1890s land-grant institutions, and report by the association for public land-grant institutions found that from 2010-2012, 61% of 100 of the 1890s land-grant institutions didan not receive 100% of the one-to-one match funds from the respective states

for extension and research funding. go back to the special relationship. when congress established the 1862 land-grant institutions, as with the 1890s land-grant institutions, as as with the 1862, they required a state match for the dollar being invested in the 1890s. the 1890s. and so between 2010-2012, 61 of the -- secure one person of the 1890s land-grant did not receive the dollars. between 22-2012, 18 land-grant universities did not receive more than 31 million in extension funding due to states not meeting their one-to-one match requirements. from 2010-2012, 1890 land-grant universities did not receive more than 25 million in research funding due to states not meeting their one-to-one --

>> dr. baskerville, let me ask you this. in response to 2018 survey conducted by the government accountability office responding to hbcus reported that nearly half of the building spaces on average is in need of repair and replacement. what can we do to fix that? >> we need the united states congress to recognize these institutions as central to the progress of america, in terms of research we have 11 research, to make institutions, research institutions that are high research intensive, that if they were invested in commensurate with the return on investment they would have additional infrastructures, money for laboratory, , money for additiol centers of excellence, additional dollars to utilize both corporate and government

laboratories, and to do a number of things that will position them to move from research one -- research two to research one institutions.o in fact, nafeo recommends that you consider and act score type of relationship for the are to institutions where the scientific departments and agencies would pull the resources and work with these 11 intently to move them from research two to research one so they can sit in the driver seat in developing the types of scientific inventions, and particularly at this time in the health field, the can help to move america from where we are today to where wee need to be. >> thank you. thank you so much. i now recognize our ranking member, dr. murphy, for his questions. dr. murphy?

>> yes, thank you, madam chair and again thank you to all of the witnesses coming today. excellent testimony. just, i'll just say again i'm going to give a shout out to kerry dixon at elizabeth state university because she has done just a tremendous job at elizabeth city state university, they have tremendous aviation program and she's taken the place am very, very tough times to be an absolute gem within our district. he asked a couple questions if you will. ms. sailor, if you don't mind. you noted in your testimony obama aired a gainful employment rule that the rule was particularly harmful to the hbcu community. would you mind flashing that out a little bit for me and discussing that? >> sure, and thank you for the question. as we look at balancing the needs of students and institutions and being able to protect both, and to look at the gainful employment regulation,

if you will, trump was concerned, and many weree concerned, that harm could come to hbcus and other institutions of higher learning across the country where the ability to not defined, if you will, the requirements of that connectivity between the program and actually outcome that the student would receive in terms of gainful employment. and so that rule in terms of focusing on disclosure was very important to begin to relax that and create another flexibility for hbcus and institutions of higher learning not to be harmed. and so again, you know, we want to make sure that students are going to engage in programs that are going to lead to employment, but at the same time there has

to be a balancing of where that accountability comes and where the institutions themselves can also be protected in their programs that they offer. >> all right. well, i appreciate. that. i will tell you what's happening in, i'm in medicine, , i've beea surgeon for 30 years, and now it's accountability. i don't think are institutions of higher education areab by any means exempt from that and i think there needs to be a lot more accountability at all institutions, not just specifically hbcus but all institutions. because i think the faucet of federal money has led to some of that just not being accountable. so you know, i think outcomes are important. i think where to look at what institutions are doing with their money andey are the giving the students the education that they deserve, and are they giving them what they are paying for? aro we giving the taxpayers what

they're doing? this is again across every institution. so as the committee looks to reauthorize the higher education act, you have any specific suggestions as to what the accountability framework should look like? >> well, , yes. youmeor know, there has to alwae transparency. i think that will continue to be essential factor in making sure that the relationship between the student, the taxpayer, and the institution is going to render us what we're looking for. i mean, ultimately we want to make sure that students are going to graduate and be employed. and we want to make sure that they are going to be able to realize their dreams and contribute to society. and we seeut in 2020 that just x in ten students completed a a four-year bachelors degree in six years. and so as we look at these reforms off accountability, we

need to continue to make sure that the mission of what the school is trying to do in terms of the academic onset of the educational experience to the workplace is met. critically important as well to continue to allow the voices of industry to be at the table in terms of looking at those reforms and how they need to work and the collaboration between the institutions, towards making sure that the students are equipped to do the jobs that will be available. >> right. just -- appreciate the comments. i just think again putting the private sector in because that's what most jobs are either going to have, they demand accountability, , that we have o ask higher education institutions, all of hbcus and everybody else, to put out a product that is worthy of the money instilled in it. i thank you all again. thank you so much, madam

chairman. i'm going to yield back. >> thank you. thank you so much for your questioning. and as fario as accountability we will follow up on that and agree. ms. manning of north carolina. >> thank you, madam chair. and i want to thank all of our witnesses for being with us today to talk about this very important topic. i have three wonderful hbcus in my district, including north carolina a&t which is i believe now the largest and has had a lot of accoladesan this year including olympic athletes who recently competed in the olympics here and we have one gold medal winner comes i just want to shoutut out to them. dr. perry, , you mention in your testimony the important role that hbcus play in educating black students in the s.t.e.m.

fields. when you talk about the impact of federal investments have had on the ability of hbcus to enhance s.t.e.m. education and support the innovation in the economy? >> thein reason why i talked abt the importance of graduates in the s.t.e.m. fields because it is clear that the economy is moving towards one in which have to be highly skilled particularly and science, technology, engineering and math. in spite of the lack of investment in those institutions, hbcus are producing a higher percentage. now, , when we're talking about performance, and accountability, or are lots of predominantly white - institutions that are nt holding up their fair share of the bargain. at the end of the day we as an economy if it's going to grow, it's going to grow because we graduate stem majors at a higher percentage.

and right now many institutions are not doing that, but hbcus are. and then i want to be clear that hbcus have always produced in this area but they been devalued, less patents are given out to stem graduates, less investment into the graduates. and so we could do so much more if we saw investments in those institutions and the graduates they produce. >> thank you. want to doou a follow-up because as i meet with business leaders across the country, and this s a moment in time when many businesses are looking to diversify their workforces, and i hear a lot of them talk about the fact that they can't find people in the s.t.e.m. fields and they can find people particularly in engineering. we graduate lots of great people in the s.t.e.m. fields and in engineering. what can we do to promote those graduates and make sure that employers are looking at a great

hbcus for the kinds of employees they say they're having trouble finding? >> yeah, one of the things and i don't know if you could hold people accountable to this, but whenac employers say they can't find black workers in the s.t.e.m. field, and they are particularly in the south, they clearly don't have a relationship with hbcus. and places like alabama, north several hbcus produce the graduate that they don't have the connections to industry. and so if they're they o reach out, we do need to buildno some type of bridge, and it can include social interactions, sxsw, if you have oh have which i mentioned which takes graduate questions from hbcus sxsw to essentially introduce them to funders, companies to make those kind off introductions because e

know so much of investment is about relationships. so if employers are not going to recognize the talent, then weal have to somehow make those graduates more visible. i have been really high on creating initiatives that essentially display the talent. the bayou classic, for instance, the store again between southern and gremlin, , they have a pitch competition there in which they incentivize, or the winner from hbcucu gets a certain amount of investment funding. we need to do this more, but let's be clear there are a lot of people who say they can't find black workers and that's just a reflection buys in labor markets which don't make much sense. >> dr. glover, quick question for you. mr. runcie mega-donors donors who are noticing hbcus as places where you want to make

donations. how do we expand upon this to attract more donations to hbcus? >> i think it starts with having the public-private partnerships, and expanding to the corporate community to ensure that the relationships -- [inaudible] relationship to bring about more gifts and contributions. and then when schools are doing things in the community and in the corporate world, in the industrial world, in government, when you are doing things that would show that your competitive and your students that are competitive, it's about student success. it's about teachers and faculty and staff coming together to ensure student success. and you ensure student success by bringing, puttingns them in e workplace, they are competent.

putting the right processes in place to ensure they are successful and enhance their future. so you make these partnerships and you continue tont meet and make more corporate and noncorporate relationships. >> thank you sond much. thank the witnesses and i will yield back. >> thank you so much, ms. manning. and now mr. rothman, wisconsin. >> sure. i don't have any historically, pest or two universities this in my district, nevertheless, there are a variety of issues i think ari concern across all of academia. i'll start with ms. sailor. i notice in the materials that we have that there are shocking numbers of student loan debt for students who have attended these institutions. problem in wisconsin.

some administrators feel what we ought to do is we ought to allow the universities themselves to have to sign off on student loan debt. they feel young people being what young people are sometimes take out student loan debt in axes of what they actually need. do you think it would be a good idea, ms. sailor? or maybe one of the other witnesses? would you like the ability -- do you think the universities would like the ability to say, wait a minute, you can make do with $3000 of debt. do you think that would be a good idea? ms. sailor: thank you for the question. as young people are coming into the workplace and becoming independent being able to wrap our arms around them as they are making critical decisions that are going to impact their lives, and the lives of the next generation, i think providing

support and counsel to students as they are deciding to take out a loan and understanding what is that going to mean. what does that mean in terms of what they got to pay back and how it has to be paid. what does that mean in terms of the earnings. rep. grothman: do you think the universities would like the ability to say no, you cannot take out a loan of that size. we do not think it is in your best interest. ms. sailor: i think universities would like to be in a collaboration with students and have the opportunity to give them counsel to that end yes. rep. grothman: i will ask dr. glover. would you like the ability to have to sign off before a student took out a loan? dr. glover: students have their various parts of money from which students choose to finance their education. some have more options than others.

there are some that have no other option but to get a loan. rep. grothman: the question is though the size of the loan. dr. glover: your question is totally understood. i said if a student has no other choice but to get a loan, it is up to us to manage the loan to make sure they don't borrow too much money for things they don't need but for the education. if they do not live on the right side of the tracks and can't sit around the table and have somebody going to cash in my cd to get money for school, we don't have that in our population. those students have to borrow money to go to school. i'd rather they borrow money and go to college then not go to college. we will assist them and say, you only need to borrow enough to cover this, etc. rep. grothman: would you like the ability to tell a student

you cannot take that amount out? dr. glover: we do that. we do that at hbcus. we say to them you don't need the loan. we will help you find another source of funds and we do. we have to find scholarships from other places. they cannot get a scholarship we have an alumni come to the rescue. loans are in many cases the last. rep. grothman: i am looking at an article in the washington examiner. democratic professors outnumber republicans nine to one. i talked to a professor at a private college in wisconsin. he felt less than 2% of the professors voted for donald trump. i think diversity of thought is very important in universities everywhere. i will ask ms. sailor, do you feel where you went to college there is diversity of thought and where the professors tilting toward one way of ideology or the other?

could this be a problem in some of these universities? ms. sailor: we see studies across the nation and there is great tension about diversity of thought in academia. and it is a growing concern. as we have seen the onset of cancel culture coming from both the left and the right across the spectrum in terms of issues that can be shared i think there is a growing concern about diversity of thought. rep. grothman: when you went to college did you find a lot of, or any, republican leaning professors or could you tell an ideological sway one way or the other? ms. sailor: i had a very unique experience in terms of talking to others and i felt i had a pretty balanced experience. my professors who were in the field of economics and dealing with finances tended to lean

more conservative, republican if you will. but in the humanities i found at times i was not sure one's political leaning because i found i got a balance of being able to read literature that espoused different viewpoints. in my own life i always thought to try to compare ideologies across the spectrum in terms of my study in order to keep myself in a position to be able to define my viewpoints for myself. rep. grothman: thank you. rep. wilson: thank you. let me remind the witnesses and the members please, in order for us to remain online we have a block of time. there are other committees meeting at the same time as we are. when you expand your time you

hurt our ability to broadcast to the thousands of people interested in hbcus and we have thousands on this call now. let's be mindful of the time that has been allotted to us. thank you so much. now we are going to hear from our progressive champion. >> thank you so much, madamee chair and thank you to all of you for being here today. i am so proud to support debt-free degrees for all students but especially those at hbcus because these institutions are engines of the class for the communities they serve and for our nation. they prepare black students to succeed and many are the first in their families to go to college. but we do face lack of equitable funding that burdens that mission and as we consider

investments we can make to address all the challenges faced by students at hbcus, addressing disparities in funding have to be part of that strategy if we are going to improve affordability and success. i want to thank my colleague alma adams who is somebody who is constantly talking about the importance of this. dr. perry, in the work you talk about -- in your work you talk about how expected student loan debt is a barrier to low income students and students of color, especially for those attending hbcus. my bill to college for all act addresses that challenge by helping low and middle income hbcu students attend tuition free and by doubling the pell grant. what investments in this would have on the low income student'' ability to afford complete college especially at hbcus? dr. perry: my colleague and i did a study on how canceling

debt will close the racial wealth gap and we see that the more debt you cancel the more you close the long-standing racial wealth divide in this country. in addition to closing the wealth gap, you are essentially creating professionals in high-growth industries which accelerates the economy even further. the more we can graduate folks from the under appreciated assets in our communities, meaning if you just have water, it will grow, hbcus are among those underappreciated assets. many of them are not receiving the investment and we could give more growth, close racial wealth gaps, and improve the community overall. i will add this point to address one of the other comments that was made. we really do need a true public

option in terms of free college. we talk about holding systems accountable. we actually have that amongst state colleges in a sense of the spikes into wish not occurred at the same level because state legislatures guard against that. let's not conflate all institutions. i also agree we should be rewarding institutions that graduate black students at a higher rate. not to say, hey, only public institutions should get free college. but we should incentivize those colleges to graduate black students at a higher rate. rep. jayapal: thank you. thank you so much. we looked at that in washington state. because of the state legislature's investments we were able to keep the rising cost of college lower but it is

still extremely unaffordable for too many. president glover, in my district cities and states invest in seattle promise which serves over 60% of low income students of color annually and one third are first-generation. it is successful for the reason we were talking about. it uses state and local funds but in addition to improve wraparound services like counseling and mentorship. how does the state's failure to provide equitable investment in your schools impact its ability to provide wraparound services for students most in need? dr. glover: it has a profound effect because without the funding the services are not readily available. so we are trying now to let students know about the various services. wraparound services are very important. housing, many schools have

homeless populations. at tennessee state we make sure our students have housing year-round. we know the population we serve. the other services are counseling services. this covid crisis is brought about a higher number of depression among students. students are eager to tell you, i need some counseling, i need some assistance. those days are over it was taboo to talk about issues. we have tele-counseling 24/7, not just tennessee state but many hbcus have stepped up to the plate and begun these wraparound services for students so they can be enhanced throughout their academic career. rep. jayapal: thank you. my time has expired. conscious of your words i yield back. rep. wilson: mr. banks? rep. banks: thank you.

i introduced the pell grant act which would allow them to be used for technical education. the committee refused to bring it up for a vote even though it had bipartisan support. now we find out that one of the main threats to hbcus is their inability to remain competitive with both traditional four year colleges and trade schools. according to andrew kelly of the american enterprise institute, only 14% of children for the bottom third of the income distribution curve will complete four year college degrees. many of these will go on to complete some form of technical education. ms. sailor, what effect would offering technical education have on hbcus in terms of student enrollment and competitiveness? ms. sailor: thank you. i think what is critically important in the days we live in

is to be able to offer people options and choices so that they can tailor for themselves and customize for themselves the professional upscaling that they want in the areas they desire to go. again, you cannot find a parent who is looking to be in debt and you cannot find a student looking to be in debt. people are looking for options and ways to get to the finish line in the way that will best fit their needs. again, options are critical and the more options and the more awareness people have about them and where those options lead them i think is nothing but an asset to being able to make wise decisions. rep. banks: can you talk about how pell grant flexibility what help do that, provide more options for hbcus to provide technical education? ms. sailor: yes.

it would give the financial support for the low income students from the underserved community that option as a way to circulate to the system. some people know directly what they want to be. they have their eye on the job they are going for and that will create another opportunity for them to chart a course that may be a better course for their life or a better choice for their life and where they want to go. rep. banks: thank you. one of the numerous crises plaguing higher education is the disappearance of men. according to the wall street journal, men make up only 40% of students enrolled in traditional four year universities. however, this discrepancy is more stark at hbcus. according to the national center for education statistics, female enrollment at hbcus has been higher than male enrollment every year since 1976.

the percentage of female enrollment at hbcus increased from 53% in 1976 to 63% in 2019, which is higher than the national average. ms. sailor, what is the root cause of the dress gender disparity at hbcus and what effect does this have on minority communities as a whole? ms. sailor: i think when you look at the black male population across the board and we look at high prison rates and we look at the distribution of opportunity against females and males, this is a challenge for us as a nation across-the-board. i think it is hard to take that conversation and just narrow it down to specifically

historically black colleges and universities. across the nation we have an issue with what is happening to the black male in our country and the leadership opportunity there. rep. banks: can you talk about what hbcus are doing to address the gender gap? ms. sailor: if i look and talk to leaders in the hbcu community, there are major efforts in terms of trying to do recruitment and looking at partnerships even before students graduate from high school in terms of creating interest and opportunity. you see a lot of this happening with the rotc program and the junior rotc programs toward getting interest of males into higher education and on the hbcu campuses towards that end, which creates opportunities for funding of their education as they begin to serve our nation.

rep. banks: thank you you. i yield back. rep. wilson: thank you so much. such an important topic and that is why congress has established the commission on the social status of black men and boys. on this committee today there are three members, mr. bowman, myself, and ms. mcbeth. we found on the hbcu campuses 70% of the student body are female students. in atlanta only spelman college sees that and they are all girls ' college. i worked with tennessee state this last year to help increase their black male population by sending them 12 black boys to tennessee state from jacksonville, florida and

miami-dade county, florida to help incentivize other black males to attend college. and you've got to do that from beginning in the third grade. thank you so much for that. that is just write down my alley. our next member is down his alley. we are both former principals, mr. bowman of new york. rep. bowman: thank you. i rarely if ever disagree but i am going to slightly disagree that we need to begin the college-bound process in pre-k. [laughter] just to plant the seeds before they even start kindergarten. first i want to thank our witnesses for being here today and express a special thank you to the hbcu caucus founder and

cochair congresswoman adams and chairwoman wilson for their continued relentless advocacy and leadership over the years and making this hearing happened today. while there are no hbcus in my district of westchester and the bronx, by the way, we may need to talk about that. all the hbcus are in the south and i am in the northeast. we could get one or two in the northeast. there is one in brooklyn. we need one in the bronx. i have constituent to attend hbcus out-of-state. the opportunity needs to remain for generations to come. i had a question for stem education for dr. baskerville. thank you for your testimony today. i would like to discuss stem investments in hbcus. in addition to sitting on this committee eyes serve as subcommittee chair on energy for

the science, space and technology committee. on both committees it is clear to me we need to do more in stem education. not only in higher education but in k-12 as well. studies have shown the percentage of black students earning stem degrees nationwide has declined in recent years. but we also know hbcus play an outsized role in awarding stem degrees to black students. my question is, what do hbcus do differently from non-hbcus in this regard and what lessons can other colleges and universities learn from hbcus about effective stem education and exposure to stem career opportunities? dr. baskerville: thank you so much, congressman bowman. i would like to say we are delighted to say we are delighted you have predominantly black institutions that nafio helped. medgar evers is one and they

align with nafio. relative to stem, hbcus are doing a number of things to begin pre-k and work your way up. one of the things nafio did for 10 years with the national telecommunications and information administration was to shape and execute and evaluate techno-scholars. the data suggested boys are interested in technology and if you keep them busy on whatever the current technological advices are, they would excel. we identified six hbcus and were able to get them technology devices and we found -- we partnered them with young men at the hbcus. we are mentors. they had a mentor who looked like them, came from the background and they had devices.

their graduation rates went up substantially compared to the black men who were not techno-scholars. they got lessons on the technology and as a reward they were given games, programs they enjoyed playing. there is another group, quality education for minorities that, dr. ivory tolson was the last president. they are also looking for innovative ways to engage in the pipeline. with the trio program, in the last few years with tremendous support from chairman scott and others on the committee started a program, upward bound stem, recognizing in the 10th grade if you focus on stem, you can work. we are doing as many things -- there is more we can do -- but we are evaluating and will hopefully have a report on which seem to be most promising.

rep. bowman: thank you so much for that response. as a middle school principal i was one of the only middle schools in the bronx to offer a computer science program to our kids. that something as we think about k-12 schools i think we could do more of in partnership with hbcus. thank you so much, madame chair. i yield back. rep. wilson: thank you, mr. bowman. i would be remiss if i did not recognize chairman scott for his work with black boys and men also today. now our next member is ms. miller meeks. rep. >> thank you very much, madam c. thank you, thank you to our panelist for the very interesting discussion. i've had the opportunity to visit several hbcus not in my state but elsewhere and oppose

been oppressed with the the work that theyre do. this wasn't originally was going to go with my question i'm going to follow up on something representative banks had asked earlier. i'm a 24 year military veteran, left home at 16 and where to find way to get to medical school and soin i thought it was interesting one of the comments that you made earlier, ms. sailor, in your testimony, both in your testimony, the written testimony and then your comments to representative banks in trying to get young men, young black men into college to address the gender gap and gender disparity. but you mentioned the hbcus collaboration with reserve officer training courses, core or rotc on campuses to cultivate future military officers. that said, 25% of hbcus currently participate in a rotc program. are. are there specific barriers preventing more hbcus from collaboration? i think this would be a win-win both for our country, for black

men, and for hbcus. >> thank you for the question, and i have to just say this as well. we, my husband and i have two children at west point and -- >> oh, my gosh. >> we have a special place in her heart for that type of training. i have a son, and they can't imagine wanting him in a more secure discipline program, if you will, as he's becoming a young man have at the heritage foundation been working with rotc programs on hbcu campuses one of the things we noticed in terms of conversation around the barriers is it requires funding. we see that collaboration has come into play as a way to overcome that barrier where you've got like, in virginia,

hampton university and others collaborate together and bring those university systems together to use those resources collectively. we even see that happening at institutions like harvard and m.i.t. where they collaborate those resources together in order to give those students the best experience that they can have and the best exposures they can have. i think it is super important as we continue to look at this as a model, there is another instance in terms of looking at making sure the workplace development piece is in-line line with the need. one of the areas we talked with hbcus is that cybersecurity area. it is not as strong as it could be in terms of looking at

military preparedness and there are several of the institutions looking at how to funnel and channel a collaborate to make those areas stronger. rep. miller-meeks: interesting you're bringing that up because representative bowman just talked about stem education and i think mr. perry did as well. the success in hbcus in graduating in science degrees and further science degrees and computer technological. certainly that is a value to the military. it is value to their education and would facilitate careers in technology, and computer, and cyber technology which is incredibly important to our nation. is there something we can do in congress to help facilitate that collaboration? ms. sailor: yes. i think as we make this more and more of a priority as we talk

about policy and the need for military preparedness i think it is especially important because it puts hbcus again in a conversation about being an american asset that is being bolstered toward competitiveness in military preparedness. from a public relations standpoint and from a program standpoint it is essential for us to continue these conversations and look at policies that expand opportunity. rep. miller-meeks: thank you so much for your testimony and those of our witnesses. i yield back my time. rep. wilson: thank you so much. my friend from new york. >> thank you, chairwoman. thank you for allowing me to ask some questions. my first question is, how has the lack of funding, the disparity in funding at the

hbcus contributed to any issues with student retention. anybody would like to answer that? dr. baskerville, dr. glover? dr. glover: the various needs of hbcus span across several categories and most of those affect whether or not students attend university and sometimes when they return. the needs are so great in the infrastructure and deferred maintenance. that is a huge one for hbcu students. some of the students are crumbling. the infrastructure needs excessive work.

[indiscernible] that means where you learn and where you live. that's where that become so important. when it rains outside, many times it rains inside also. so infrastructure is one. the technology. technology students, understand you live in technological age. they want to have their type of technology including advanced computing capabilities and networks, so the funding that has been denied over the years, the systemic, historical, diverted funding that hbcus have not received, that makes a difference when students are looking at schools. and then the new active programs, funding, lack of funding has resulted in various programs not being able to be offered at variousus universiti. and then of course the research. many students a note to a school because of research. i definitely look at the other

areas of campus as a whole and the officers are there. that hurts and helps with recruiting and retention. >> even with these disadvantages, right, hbcus and the hispanic serving institutions as well as other minority serving institutions have, contribute to closing the racial and ethnic wealth gap, and higher education. do you have any data of the important role that these institutionst have played in closing the wealth gap by the opportunity that these disadvantages are presented to students? >> even with the lack of funding, hbcus have excelled and we won't have to go over the stats anymore, , but he did taka student who would've gone to

college who didn't go for whatever reason, we've reached out to students. they didn't have the funding. lack of funding for which students from going to school,, there's no scholarship money available. there are other parts of funny nott available so another statistic, if you make bureau of labor statistics said students graduating from high school makes on average $37,000 a year, and in college i think was 61,000. they work 40 years. if you look at the difference of $24,000 a year for four years, that's almost a million dollars that the student has not earned, has not made because of not going to college because of lack of funding. >> may i ask -- >> can i i respond quickly to that? let's also remember that black graduates, collegiate graduates at a much lower wealth profile than their white counterparts, earn less money.

and so our economic mobility is throttled by discrimination in other areas. and so we can't ignore that part. like people are going to school and taking on -- black people are going to school and taking on more debt and the education not playing out the same way it does for their white counterparts. >> thank you, madam chair. just let me say in closing that in new york state i was involved in a lawsuit that established disparities in, regional disparities in funding in the new york city public school system, was a campaign fiscal equity and my knees eventually were allocated by the courts both for capital improvement of the schools as i well as operational. i think there's a lot of similarities in the years of disparities in funding given to hbcus and other minorities

serving institutions. thank you and i yield back. >> thank you. thank you so much. and now, ms. mclane of michigan. welcome. >> thank you, madam chair. and thank youou to all of our guests today. i really appreciatee the opportunity for what you're doing. i think we all share the same thought process in terms of it quickly our younger generation, our youth educator and provide them an opportunity to get a good well paying job, that also many problems down the road, and it really begins to give them a sense ofy pride. i think you see that passed down from generation to generation sublet all of our efforts. i have a few clarifying questions that, this is my first time on thisis committee somewht to make sure i understand it. we had talked earlier about endowments, and if you are

producing at such a higher rate from these colleges, why do you think our endowments are suffering? >> well, endowments are created natalie from individual contributions but through other federal and state investments. and so overall, in a nutshell, hbcus take on, enroll, much less -- many more lower wealth individuals, so even the graduates that go on are in a job market that throttles their wealth even further. and so from an individual perspective they receive less contribution from a federal response --er >> okay, i think i understand. in interest of time i don't mean to be rude or cut you off. for example, i graduate from

northwood university which is a private college which has a really good endowment fund. they would get federal monies -- >> know, okay, that's one of the ways but also remember there's lots of -- there's lots of sorts of endowments had a hate to put a damper on this, were created from cotton money, alcohol money, colleges and universities particularly -- >> ip. understand. that helps me. appreciate it. i was trying, trying to connect the dots because it do think the most important thing that we can give our youth of today is a job. i mean, when you think about it a job provides pride, since the purpose, right? it breaks the cycle. it allows people to pay taxes. it allows people to get back. i mean, i'm in agreement. unmasking again, perhaps our ladders do think is may be on the wrong wall for a moment?

ii go back to what mr. bowman said is, it seems like the workforce, right, the consumer of the product, the student, right, is wanting more skilled trades. and i can only speak for my state really in my district. i mean, i was out this morning and they are begging for people in the skilled trades industry. is there some sort of marriage that we can do between the college and the skilled trades? and i think you've talked a little bit about that but i think that really i is critical. because we talk about having free college tuition and whatnot, and let's remember, nothing is free, right? the professors surely are not teaching for free, and at the end of the day somebody has to pay those professors, and it's typically the taxpayers money that congress is appropriating.

i'm just wondering, are we truly providing -- this isn't a knock on anyone. i don't wanted it to come across that way. are we truly providing a product that the community wants? and anyone can answer that, because people in my community don't need another -- they need somebody who knows how to weld. i'm just wondering -- >> i'd like to respond to that. the hbcu community has 17-two your institutions, community and technical colleges, that as with therefore your counterparts, they're punching above their weight. they are graduating disproportion percentages of persons who are trained in health and health professions and health health care p. they are in technology. they are in all the growth and high need areas --

>> so you're producing welders, producing -- >> we are producing welders and -- >> okay. >> in many cases, in jf drake, for example, their classes are ranking above their counterparts in passing the licensure exams that are required once they get there. >> so journeymen, apprenticeships, all that -- >> yes, those types of things. >> that's exciting. >> i think i agree with your general concept that we've got to have jobs, but i think you've got toe have people prepared fr the workforce, people with strong character and people committed to service so i think that's one ofi the things that hbcus provide that makes them unique. yes, we absolutely are preparing folks for the workforce. >> right. >> building character at encouraging -- >> that comes with discipline and showing up on time and i think you would also agree with me that it is critical for us to

teach our children how to think, not what you think, so they can come up with these critical thinking skills on their own. so with that i i yield back my time. thank you very much. >> ms. bonamici of organ. >> thank you, madam chair. before aspect questions i want to speak to the gainful employment rule which was brought up in the witnesses testimony and answers. students attend career education programs with the expectation thatee they're going to receivea quality experience. it's going to lead them to gainful employment but many of those career education programs particularly those at for-profit institutions are not preparing students for f gainful employmet in their chosen field, leaving them with the debt they can't pay. so to protect students and taxpayers the obama administration implemented the gainful employment rule and that was a students are not take on for higher education that did not lead to good jobs.

and thatat will work. data showed institutions were starting to reduce tuition cost and space at the low quality programs because of the role. yet secretary devos completely rescind the rule to the detriment of students and taxpayers. and contrary to the testimony given today, hbcus were not negatively impacted by the gainful employment rules because of the student demographics. accordingfr to data from the department of education the percentage of students of color and institutions does not have meaningful impact on institutions debt to earningt ratio. what the gainful employment regulation did was protect students, particularly low income students instance of color from overpriced, low quality programs, particularly at the predatory for-profit colleges. some glad the biden administration is indicated they are going to regulate and bring back the gainful employment rule and all afford to working with the committee and the administration on this important issue. now, turning to the questions. we know, it's been established,

hbcus are tremendously important to our nation's our education system and yet as chairof wilson described and several other witnesses have confirmed they have been historically underfunded with endowments lagging behind hbcus, lagging behind not hbcus by as much as 70%. hbcus are less likely to be able to buffer lower federal and state funding levels, and i want to note the most important role of the federal government in education and, therefore, our role as policymakers is to advance equity. .. -- education opportunities come along before johnson emphasized equity of opportunity with the important higher education act in the mid-1960's. today, institutions of higher education, especially hbcus, need resources and so they can continue to serv >> resources as they continue to serve as engines of economic mobility for students they serve. unfortunately, not all of my colleagues agree with me and

some oppose additional investments in hbcu's and how about when we established the thought that we do not have to invest in hbcu's and other institutions. >> and i find it hypocritical that they're for expanding the economy aren't hbcu's particularly in the areas that are are strong. we're making the argument that for the work force development as a whole, we need stem graduates. we should be investing in those institutions that could produce stem graduates at a higher level. the other side of this, there are many institutions that do not graduate black students swell and i can easily make the argument, the reason why you see an increase in hbcu's,

because the pwi's of the world are not doing their job. >> and, doctor, i don't mean to cut you off, but i want to get in another question to president glover. we know that tennessean state university is doing a lot to help students that arrive on campus who need additional support. perhaps students have attended underresourced k-12 schools. what are you doing to make sure that they're prepared for the students in the underfunded k-12 systems and in the remaining time, how would the enactment of the build back legislation, build back better legislation with policies like the extension of the child tax credit, affordable child care and universal pre-school for three and four year olds, affect children who may be future hbcu students? >> i'd like to tell you, that

students who come to us that are not prepared, who are not prepared and that they'll get the right knowledge, and focus on this throughout their college career. i've forgotten that-- >> i'm sorry, the build back better legislation includes things like affordable child care, child tax credit and universal pre-school. how would that affect future hbcu students? >> in a positive way. build back better act, they'll have a real appreciation what hbcu provides and the nature of the students at hbcu's. i think that each one of those elements, they have a positive to it that will make them feel that they will develop. >> thank you so much, dr.

glover and i apologize for going over, madam chair, i yield back. >> this is a wild hearing. [laughter] >> okay. and next. >> yes, ma'am, yes, madam chair, i am prepared to ask my questions. >> thank you very much. according to data from your office, the cohort default rates of 13.4% and in 2018, the highest and nearly twice that of the national average for schools. i note that these are higher than for propriety institutions that they continually demonize as failing their students. i know that students tend to rely on the higher rate, but that should not impact their ability to repay back these loans, especially since today, we've heard so much about the

high percentages of professional people that graduate from hbcu's. so could you comment on that, please? >> yes. as we look at the demographics of the majority of students attending hbcu's, we see that there are a lot of people who are first time college attendees, if you will, to graduation and i think that this issue goes back to what happened at the moment that one is accepting a loan and i think it's critically important that we look at ways to make sure that the financial literacy subscale component is happening at the same time. dr. glover spoke to that in terms of what she's doing at

her university and what helps make those students make wise decisions. we've got young people trying to make decisions for themselves. they don't always have the same consultation of family members who have gone through a similar experience so therefore, they're trail-blazing. >> could i follow-up on that a little bit. should congress do more to hold schools accountable, hbcu's and non-hbcu's alike? >> i think that congress should be look r working within a looking at policies that encourage both hbcu's and nonhbcu's to provide that financial and counseling as young people are trying to make decisions that are beyond where they can see at the moment. >> ms. sailor, the institutions of higher education receive additional federal support in response to the college posed

by covid-19. and targeted and direct additional support. this influx of taxpayer dollars was unprecedented in the size in which it was delivered and makes oversight of those funds more critical to assure that taxpayer dollars are used as intended to help students. do you have any indication, since this committee has had no oversight on how this money is being spent. do you have any indication as to how hbcu's have used their covid relief funds and have some used them more effectively than others, i only have a little over a minute so i need a quick answer. >> yes, what we see across the board is hbcu's are trying to meet needs of the students who are in dire need during this moment that we're having as a nation. we see that dillard and howard, and north carolina amt, for

example, are a few institutions that have created safe fund and grants from private donors as well to help pay tuitions and fees. we also see other universities with private scholarships and those additional funds, i think, have helped in order to look at diversifying other avenues to bring money into those institutions. >> over the past year we've seen several reports of hbcu's, clearing the account balances of their students, using covid relief funding. do you think this is a smart way to teach students fiscal responsibility? and what was the justification for this use? how was the determination made which borrowers to cover? we need to know more about how -- whether this is an effective use of taxpayer dollars or is

this simply transfer of wealth? >> yes, dr. foxx, i think we as a nation experienced a global pandemic something no one was expecting and i don't think we got it all right. i think as the law allowed for flexibility for our hbcu's to look at what kind of processes they were going to use, i think we've got to be able to go back and insist on the transparency of how that was interacting and interfacing so that as we move forward we can make sure that the models that work are going to be continue to be used and those things that didn't work. >> thank you very much. i yield back, madam chair. >> thank you so much. and now, the chair of the full committee, the distinguished dr. scott of virginia. >> thank you, madam chair, and

i want to thank you for convening this hearing and i want to thank our witnesses for being with us today. my family is very closely associated with hbcu's. my father, mother, two brothers and a sister attended hbcu's, howard, hampton, virginia state, and my great-grandfather, nicholas roberts, after whom i'm named, was interim president and i'm closely associated with the hbcu's. let me first make a quick comment about-- a comment made by the gentleman from indiana, mr. banks about what it sounded like short-term pell that we haven't taken up the bill and probably the reason we haven't taken it up is that every higher education bill and every work force development bill that we've

considered in the last two or three years has included a provision for short-term pell so that his views are well-taken and we will look forward to working with him more on that. ms. glover, dr. glover, thank you for your testimony. as several have indicated in the last couple years it's been unprecedented support for hbcu's. can you compare the funding that tennessee state got in the last year and a half compared to what it usually gets historically, and what you're able to do with the money? >> sure. they received three categories last year. the first -- half of the students and half went to the university where we --

[inaudible] we had the second round, and the relief act and then american rescue plan, that was 58 million dollars. so a total of $115 million came in on an emergency basis. so they were used to provide assistance to students, and that number -- and tuition assistance to students impacted by the pandemic. the that was around 21 million. the scholarship of 22 million. and it went for housing, and technical enhancements on-line so schools had the means to go home all of a sudden, no technology devices and no connectivity to broadband so we had to provide technology for the students. they have cell phones, but cell phones go so far, to go to zoom

and on line and that way, but you can't do the papers and modeling, and we provided technology. so, so much for the equipment where you have the ppe. so, this then fall, this semester, another -- so we've actually spent all of the money we are most appreciative of the funds. and i have to say the emergency funding, that's what made us more appreciative. we were in a sta it state of emergency. >> it sounds like almost as much from the covid relief bill than from the state of tennessee in the last year and a half. [laughter] >> indeed. >> i'm going to ask you a question to respond on the record and that is what can we do to actually increase endowments? i don't have much time to get a

coherent answer to that question, but if you can provide that for the record, i'd appreciate it because that's one thing that has been commented on and we ought to be able to do something about that. and finally, miss baskerville, do you have any comments about the present status of hbcu litigation in terms of whether or not the dissent decrees are still in effect and states are in compliance. >> the decrees are in effect and still in compliance. with the maryland case we now have litigation and the results of that that suggest what the states must prove. so what we found in maryland case was that, yes, there are still vesttages of discrimination among the many are infrastructure and also duplication. but what it did did put out a

road map so other 18 public institutions in states where they maintain a dual and unequal higher education system will know what to do. we can now take this and use it with the other decrees. but i do believe that we need to work and make sure that the office of civil rights has a process in place that doesn't force you to be in litigation or pre-litigation for 40 years. we need at some point to ent convenient once it's off of the civil rights, if they're in violation and put in place the decree, if they do not comply they need to withhold funds. that appears to be the only thing they'll respond to. >> thank you. and i'd just for the record let you know that the chair, relate wilson and i, recently wrote the office of civil rights and department of education asking them about the status of this

litigation and what they're doing about states that are not in compliance. woo are we're following up on that. >> thank you, madam chair, i yield back. >> thank you so much. and now, ms. letlaw of louisiana. welcome. >> thank you, and thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to testify before the committee today. louisiana is home to historically black colleges and universities. >> hbcu's are acknowledged for contribution to research and i'm proud that one of these are located in the 15th district. grambling has been educating students, since 1901. the university offers strong deprograms, but especially known for nursing, computer science and teacher education majors and i can't forget to mention the world famed tiger

marching band. this summer i had the opportunity to visit the campus to learn about their academic programs and qualities. i was especially impressed with their commitment to recruiting black male students to pursue careers as educators as elementary and secondary schools. nationally less than 2% of the teachers are black males while over 50% of the students are students of color. grambling is seek to go address this discrepancy by launching a targeted leadership program for blackmail students to earn a teaching degree. finding innovative ways, and i support grambling. ms. sailor you look highlight the public-private partnerships. i believe there are immense

values in their partnerships, that are examples of successful collaboration between hbcu and private sector, are there barriers from preventing leveraging these partnerships? if so, what can be done to remove them? >> thank you for your question. i actually worked on many years ago a proposal and we almost got it done with nascar and hbcu's. what was successful in that in terms of being able to connect the resources, the innovation in terms of giving the students the handon hands-on experience and mechanics and the degree. what is essential, i think, as we look at success in terms of the connectivity of both the

private and the public sector coming together to try to execute towards an incredible outcome is the ability as both are coming into fruition, that they don't get cut off when an administration changes. and so, i think where we are able to keep a certain amount of continuity where you've got the three parts coming together, it's going to be very helpful in being able to not only measure the long-term outcomes of what can happen, but also, being able to get to a place scaling those incredible models out in terms of its capacity to really return on the investment that's made from the partnership. >> that's a wonderful example. thank you so much and i yield back. >> thank you so much. and now, let me just let you

know that what you said was so amazing, how you started your testimony. that's why, the congressional black caucus has established the commission on the social status of black men and boys, and we agree with you about the teaching shortage, the attendance, and everything that impacts black boys, thank you so much for your testimony. and now ms. adams of north carolina. >> thank you, madam chair. thank you for your work on hbcu's, and thanks for the long awaited hearings for hbcu's and for each of our esteemed witnesses, i do ask unanimous content to entering into the record the following items, 2018 government calendar, the office report that speaks to the improved participation in education, and in the education of hbcu's capital financing

programs, the 2021 reports, published by the century foundation, achieving this for the hbcu's, and urging congress to examine the importance of investing in the development infrastructure in hbcu's and the 37 member petitions, urging congress to improve the language affecting hbcu's and a report for understanding the issues. it's no secret, madam chair that i'm passionate about hbcu's and an advocate. i'm a proud, two time graduate of state university. and an administrator at colleges and hbcu's. so i remember my personal experiences when i came to congress to how to make things right for our hbcu experience.

a significant piece of legislation i introduced in this congress. hr32-94, the excellence act which really has support from conservative senators to progressive democrats and it will revitalize and rejuvenate our campuses. my first question, the higher educations are classified as msi's, so hbcu's and others are sorted into the same category for participation and programs and initiatives funded by the federal government: dr. baskerville, when you talk about the similarities and differences between hbcu's and other types of institutions both in terms of historic funding and current financial status. >> yes, thank you so very much, madam chairwoman, of the bipartisan caucus on hbcu's. there are similarities in that

the hbcu's and the pcu's and msi's. those are the demographic institutions, the college, at pbi's. they're similar in the types of the students that they're graduating. they're different, tremendously different in their founding and their mission. hbcu's and tribal colleges and universities are mission-based, nonracial, nonethic institutions. they have no race criterion, no ethnic criterion, but they have a mission of educating in the case of hbcu's, and the american systems and others and hbcu's have done that since their founding and they've been open to all persons who want to excel. the question was asked about diversity of thought. hbcu leads in diversity of

thought, racial, ethnicity and the gamut of-- >> let me, i only have a couple minutes. so can you speak to why hbcu funding should be decoupled from the funding. >> and they must be because they're not like the ms, a history of a special relationship that the united states continues to acknowledge based on slavery, the 200 years of slavery, 200 years since slavery and the lingering vesttages of discrimination, no other cohort of american colleges has that. for that reason, we cannot be clumped with other institutions who are doing a good job and not to thought to get them recognized as geographic minority serving institutions. but because of the uniqueness, the gross underfunding and vestiges that linger today and

special for hbcu's. >> let me ask dr. glover, your testimony, you spoke about institutions not receiving matching funding for decades. how has the lack of matching funds to land grant institutions, negatively impacted relative to students at these land grant institutions? >> it's had a profound effect in that students have not been able to engage in the programming that public schools have-- were not able to-- the work that they should have and could have been doing. there's never been the extension work funded for -- as land grant in tennessee. >> i'm out of time. i'll yield back. >> and what other questions you may have, submit them for the record and we'll have the witnesses respond to you in writing. >> yes, ma'am, i'll do that. thank you, madam chair.

>> so that all committees in writing. thank you. >> thank you. >> now ms. mcbath from georgia, welcome. >> well, thank you so much, metro detroit for holding this crucial discussion on the continued, essential role madam chairwoman for this role that historically black colleges play in this organization and the continued need to strengthen and support hbcu's and i thank the witnesses for sharing time with us today. as an alum na of an hbcu, virginia, go trojans, have to get that there this i know the role that they play in higher education system. hbcus served as one of the only means for african-americans and other minorities to gain a college education. while many educational doors have opened since, hbcu's still

serve a vital role in educating, nurturing and advancing america's students. without this this woman you see before you today may never have gone on to become a united states congresswoman, representing the great people of georgia's 6th congressional district. nor perhaps would my colleagues be here with me today representatives fredrico wilson and amr adams, both hbcu representatives and graduates. further, the nation may never have had united states supreme court justice thurgood marshall. a two time graduate of hbcu's, nor the first female vice-president, kamala harris, also an hbcu alum. in my state of georgia, we are home to nine hbcu's, the third most in the country, tied with

texas. the united negro college fund found that in 2018 georgia's hbcu generated actually $1.3 billion in total economic impact to the state and generated over 12,000 jobs. hbcu's have provided so much to this country and its accomplishments and that's why it's imperative we in turn provide continued funding to hbcu's by doing so, we invest not just in these institutions, but in the future of this country. now, my question is for dr. baskerville. research shows that hbcu's have higher success rates when compared to other four-year institutions with similar enrollments of pell students. after controlling for pell enrollments, the average institutional rate provides

students at hbcu's with 38%, compared with 32% for nonhbcu's. what is it about the academic experience that's provided by hbcu's that helps students attending these institutions to have better outcomes than their peers that are attending nonhbcu's? >> thank you so much for that question, congresswoman mcbath. hbcu's are most importantly, they're offering the diverse courses and curricula that will prepare the students for tomorrow's labor force, tomorrow's service force and the like, but they're doing it, many of them, in smaller, nurturing environments. they're doing it in environments where the faculties and you find that the right institutions are persons are color, persons who perhaps came from their background,

their culture and they share a common ethos, but they're bringing to the table the academic piece, but they also have the civic and the service and the spiritual aspect, spiritual meaning encouraging students something above and beyond themselves. and they're richly diverse. hbcu's have about 70% students who are african ancestors and about 30 who are not. great diversity ratings and they're improving as others are, the faculty are even more diverse, so those who believe in the excellent environment, smaller environments, costs are contained and diversity look to hbcu's where we welcome persons of all backgrounds, all interests, and certainly those who believe in different philosophies as was discussed

previously. >> thank you so much. and i yield the rest of what little time i have to my colleague, alma adams. thank you, and thank you the gentle lady for yielding. dr. glover, you talked about the neglect that campuses have and what resources are needed for the neglect. >> we're seeking to get to 544 million that has-- we're out of. so in tennessee, but-- deferred maintenance, the infrastructure, the programs, it's not an average, significant number of campuses. >> thank you, i yield back. i'm out of time, madam chairman. >> thank you so much and we'll ask ms. glover if she would respond in writing to your question so that all of the committee members will have

that response. i have to make an announcement that is beyond our control. we tried to make this work, but dr. glover has a meeting at the white house, the vice-president of the united states and the national pandemic counsel. so we're going to excuse her now as she serves in both capacities. dr. glover. >> thank you, madam chair. >> i have a text from the white house so we'll proceed with the next -- in connecticut. of connecticut. ms. stevens of michigan. >> madam chair, miss stevens is here. >> oh, okay. >> thank you so much for letting me waive onto to today's incredible hearing in

the testimony was just instrumental and i want to thank you, madam chairwoman and the members of the subcommittee as we discuss for a century and a half our hbcu's have just been a critical source of producing work force diversity and i'm so grateful that we are here today addressing their systemic underutilization and underfunding, especially as it pertains to r & d and innovation and other critical economic development needs. i'm also a proud co-sponsor of the legislation from our esteemed chair of another incredible committee here on

labor, her legislation to make historical investments in hbcu's and i would like to take my team and yield it to congresswoman alma adams from the great state of north carolina. >> thank you very much. i thank the gentle lady for yielding. i did want to talk a little bit about the research institutions and dr. baskerville, of the 131 schools classified as research 1 institutions by the classification of higher ed, none of those are hbcu's, there are 11hbcu's including my alma mater north carolina, which is the largest public university which are among 135 schools classified as r-2, research 2 universities indicating that they do have high research activity. so, what actions can the federal government take, dr.

baskerville, both in the short-term and the long-term to develop multiple r-1 hbcu's? >> thank you very much. in the short-term, we need very much to have investments in our infrastructures that will make sure that they have broadband and laboratoies and all the things that are essential to continuing to do the work that they're doing as very impressive research to institutions that they must be able to have the laboratories and the communities access to laboratories as well, so you need that in the short-term. you also need in-- i think a short-term about 200 million dollars in a score-like program that will bring to bear the resources of the scientific, the department of

defense, national science foundation and the other scientific departments and agencies to put resources toward them. in recognition of the fact that we're just 11 institutions and they're responsible for graduating 42% of blacks with advanced degrees in the science, technology, engineering and mathematics with advanced degrees in education professions and disproportionate in health professions, we need them more than ever. we see what they're doing with woefully low investments and ep score is a something, a program that the department of defense is involved in with other scientific entities with the express purpose of bringing on-line additional institutions and it would be tremendous to start with hbcu's because of their output. because of the disproportionate

output and success rate in higher than others in moving persons from the lowest 20%. >> thank you. >> economic impact. >> thank you so much in the last few minutes of-- few seconds that we have, i just want to mention, because it's-- i've heard several talk about not being able to find students of color, african-american students and i just want to put out there that the bipartisan hbcu caucus has have a partnership challenge and almost 70 corporate individuals and entities involved where we help make those partnerships work with these institutions that we're in touch with, and i just want to certainly invite any of the corporate folks listening to become members of the bipartisan hbcu partisanship because it really does work and it's making a

difference for our schools and i thank the lady for yielding back. i yield, madam chair. >> thank you. thank you, ms. adams. now, from maryland, thank you for being with us in our meeting. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> your support. >> thank you very much, madam chair. >> we know your background. we know why you've been on the whole time. >> thank you very much and my thanks also to the ranking minority member for holding this hearing. obviously, i think it's very, very important so does everyone on the call otherwise we'd not being here. i want to preface my remarks by bringing your attention to a new york times article rather lengthy and be the history of the university, details ap celebration of the 150th

anniversary of the singers and what they and the university has meant to this country. and a great article and i would commend everybody's attention to it. and in my sense of being redundant and transparent say a couple of things, but i would be remiss if i didn't recognize representative adams for her stewardship of hbcu issues and education issues in general over so many years and to also commend and thank the chair of bobby scott for his leadership in this area and the fact that it was not a piece of significant legislation dealing with higher ed or pre-k through 12 that he has not been a part of over all of these years. thank you both for that. to be transparent, i am a graduate of historically black college here in baltimore. was able to find a way to matriculate and at a very tough time, got a degree and it prepared me later for other

high education work and my other attempts to matriculate. we were informed four years after lincoln signed emancipation proclamation, and have been graduating students as many of you are aware with your own institutions for a long, long time. we are hopefully, two years, maybe three years away from gaining r-1 status through carnegie and we've got a triple-a bond rating. we've produced more fullbright scholars more than other institutions that exist. and we're on the way to opening up a school of osteopathic medicine for other aspects of the campus. i want to say there was preparation for so many others today, by going to a historically black college and oftentimes they have not been able to go anywhere else.

i want to-- i don't of questions for the witness is, i want to thank them for their testimony and i wanted to just kind of react and respond to a couple of things that i heard, madam chair. that it's important to pay attention to the notion of research dollars, as was brought up before by mr. perry. so whether it's nih, national science foundation, nasa or anyone else that's granting these research dollars, that competitive, quote, competition really has to be competitive and free of influence because oftentimes institutions get through the first round and then the second round under less scrutiny is when the decision is oftentimes made and it's made based on whether or not you're familiar with this school or that name or something else. so we see this awkward shift that has gone on for years in terms of those research dollars. patents is another area that i think, i hope the committee focuses on because there's a

great deal of funding there and a great deal of opportunity, but more importantly, there's a great deal that can be contributed by black colleges and universities. and on the matter of deferred maintenance, to the extent that we're able to pass the build back better act, i'm hoping that-- and perhaps it might be instructive to not just hope, but to also signify, or signal to college presidents, all over the place, that some of that money that's free to be used about a lot of discretion, ought to go straight toward deferred maintenance because we can't keep deferring deferred maintenance. any college president like miss manning and others, it's simply something that's going to happen in the worst way if we don't take care of it. i know there was a comment why there are more black women in these colleges and universities as opposed to black men, i think 35 to 65% something like that, let me just remind you that prior to 1976 for the

previous 100 years, from 1876, it was just the reverse. in those days it was chauvinism and sexism. in these days, it's peer pressure, prison and other things intangible that oftentimes equate and give us those numbers. so if we look the at fordyce decision, or maryland, we took them to court before a settlement. one thing is clear the fight for colleges and universities who happen to be hbcu's is in desperate need for more persons to line up as allies. and hbcu's, it will be my final point, madam chair, there's nothing inconsistent about that. people say you don't need the historically black colleges and universities, and we can do things better because we can go anywhere, you really can't often times go everywhere,

prejudices that are below the surface, go to a number of intangibles today. as long as there's a harvard and yale, even though others may attended, that's not considered inconsistent. even though there's a brandeis and one that's jewish, and others may attend that's not considered inconsistent. a catholic u and a notre dame that remain essentially catholic even though others may attend, logic tells me we ought to have a morgan and a morehouse and a hampton, howard, and other colleges and universities that are holding down a historic mission to make sure that no one is left behind. i don't have any time to yield back, madam chair because i've exhausted it. thank you for allowing me to get in a few things at the conclusion of this meeting. >> that was a keynote address so i will keep that -- it has

been recorded and you will hear it over and over and over, as we move forward with the commission on the social status of black men and boys, and you are way out of time. [laughter] >> i remeaned my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, materials or submissions for the hearing record must be submitted to the committee clerk within 14 days following the last day of the hearing. so by close of business on october 20th, 2021, preferably in microsoft word format the materials submitted must address the subject of the hearing, only a member of the subcommittee or invited guests may submit materials for inclusion in the hearing record. documents are limited to 50 pages each. documents longer than 50 pages will be incorporated into the record by way of an interlink

that you must provide to the committee within the required time frame, but please recognize that in the future that link may no longer work. pursuant to house rules and regulations, items for the record should be submitted to the clerk electronically by e-mailing submissions to-- and i want to thank the head strong witnesses for their testimony today. you were fantastic. we've learned all that we could possibly digest about hbcu's and appreciate your submission. members of the subcommittee may have additional questions for you and we ask the witnesses to please respond to those

questions in writing. the hearing record will be held open for 14 days in order to receive those responses. i remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, witnesses, witness questions for the hearing record must be submitted to the majority committee staff or committee clerk within seven days. the questions submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing. i now recognize the distinguished ranking member, dr. murphy, for a closing statement. dr. murphy. >> thank you so much, madam chair and let me just say, i want to talk to-- say to my colleague, representative, that i think those were fabulous comments and i agree with you, chairwoman wilson. >> i agree when monies are spent, i believe that we ought to deal with deferred maintenance, because so many of the colleges and not just

hbcu's, really need that capital improvement and i think it needs it a lot more than going into further programs. so i applaud that statement and the comment and i want to thank all the the witnesses today. it was a very, very good discussion, and i appreciate the chairman for calling this. and a few other points just to finish up, while it's important that congress continues to recognize how hbcu's have provided students, it's equally important to know that congress will support their mission, over the last 18 months, these institutions were provided billions, billions upons billions oftype dollars which served as a temporary lifeline to mitigate what was happening during the pandemic. colleges, businesses, churches, you name it, benefitted are alive today because of the money that congress appropriated, but the fact of the matter is higher education is changing, mo are and more

students are demanding learning opportunities and credentialing outside of the traditional four-year model and covid-19 only accelerated that trend. this will require higher education institutions to change as well, including hbcu's. simply providing more and more money is not the answer, in my opinion, because calls for additional funding often ignores the interest of the taxpayers providing it, we have to be smart about the money being given to colleges and institutions and accountability needs to be paramount. the taxpayer wallets are not unlimited, rather, we should build off the initiatives of the previous administration in my opinion and encourage hbcu's to be innovative just like over other, fostering public-private partnerships to provide a stable business model to give educational opportunities to the students, more reliably than the federal government. doing so will assure their longevity to serve their students for generations to come. thank you again to the witnesses.

i believe a lot of great comments occurred today and thank you, madam chairman, i'll yield back. >> thank you. i want to thank the witnesses again and i now recognize myself for the purpose of making a closing statement. and before i do that, just keep in mind that 1886 the first hbcu was built and some of the dormitories, some of the student union buildings remain the same. and we have to keep that in mind. when i went to university we had a shower on the hallway, a

group shower. a group bathroom. now our schools that we have to compete with, each dormitory room has a bathroom. there were-- we had no kitchen. now our new dormitories on our competing institutions have kitchens, a group kitchen. i had a little tiny refrigerator and a little tiny hot plate. there were no -- nothing else, just a little hot plate that sometimes would cause fires in the dormitory. so these hbcu's have not been able to keep up for these centuries that they have been

built. so let's just keep that in mind. this is a way to bring all of this to the front, forefront and a way for all of us to know and understand that we're not being selfish, we're being pragmatic and realistic, and we, as members of congress, have to make a difference. i want to thank the witnesses and i want you to know that today we reflect on the historical roots of historically black colleges and universities and examine their continued contributions to our higher education system. in generations, the hbcu's have provided our students, particularly black and low income students, with the supportive community and opportunities for economic mobility. unfortunately, as our witnesses

shared, and our congressional members, hbcu's continue to experience persistent challenges, including systemic underfunding. chronic disinvestment and discriminatory funding policies have left hbcu's to achieve far more with far less. we must continue to invest in hbcu's and their students. to this end, congress has delivered 6.5 billion to hbcu's over the last year and a half and most recently to the committee's portion of the build back better act, we amoved over 30 billion in funding that will help support these institutions. however, far more, keep in mind, far more is needed to correct decades, centuries of

underfunding and historic inequities and i will continue to work with my colleagues on this committee, education and labor, the entire committee, to champion solutions to these pressing challenges. in light of the unique mission and history of hbcu's, i firmly believe that investing in these institutions and their students is one of the most significant actions we can take to right the wrongs of the past. that's in our communities, there's a lot of discussion and debate about reparations taking place in the african-american community in a variety of settings, from the beauty shops, to the barber shops, and social circles, wherever i go

that's where what people ask about, congresswoman wilson what are you going to study reparations and study how? i've always felt that the solutions must be education. that's congresswoman frederica wilson, so soon i plan to file legislation to help students who have been impacted by the legacy of slavery to cover the costs of attendance to any of our nation's hbcu's and i know every student doesn't want to attend an hbcu, but those that do, i consider this an investment to be long overdue and would ensure that any descendent of enslaved americans can access a

debt-free higher education at a worldclass institution. i have even been toying with the idea of targeting the most endangered human being in america, black boys. please, i ask you to let me know of your thoughts. mr. chairman, once i file this bill, i hope we can bring this bill to a markup. congress has a responsibility to address the enduring impact of slavery and decades of discriminatory policies, including how these factors have contributed towards a sizable racial wealth gap. i look forward to working with my colleagues on this committee

and all of the relevant stakeholders to ensure that hbcu's, not only survive, but continue to thrive and grow for decades to come. we will need innovative and transformative solutions to truly provide these historic institutions with the support that they need and deserve. thank you again to our witnesses and there is no further business, without objection, this subcommittee stands adjourned. >> get c-span on the go, watch biggest political events live,

with the video app, c-span now access top highlights, listen to c-span radio and discover new podcasts, download c-span now today. >> this week on c-span, wednesday the senate rules committee holds a hearing on the u.s. capitol police since the january 6th attack. live coverage begins at 10 a.m. eastern. first though, beginning at 7 a.m. we'll have coverage throughout the day marking the one-year anniversary of the attack. friday, the supreme court hears oral argument in two cases, dealing with the biden administration's vaccine mandate for health care workers ap the vaccine or test mandate for larger private companies. live coverage beginning at 10 a.m. both the house and senate return in january for the start of the second session of the 117th congress. the senate takes up the president's climate and social

spending plan known as build back better despite west virginia democrat no manchin -- joe manchin's opposition to the bill. and there's a february 18th deadline to pass additional spending legislation to avert a government shutdown. watch those developments once congress returns or watchful coverage on the video app. head over to c-span date original for scheduling on demand at any time. watch c-span your unfiltered view of government. the senate is about to gavel in after a shortened session due to snow yesterday. and one for gabrielle sanchez

in the court of appeals, debate on senator ted cruz's bills to impose sanctions on russia's nord stream pipeline. the chaplain, the reverend dr. barry black, will open the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. eternal shepherd, thank you for providing for the needs of this land we love. lord, you continue to renew the strength of our leaders, as you guide them in the right paths. show our senators how to navigate through the deepest darkness with the illumination