wouldn't want to yield the floor without mentioning in every field of medical medicine -- >> can you quickly answer the question about what we need for the doctors who are immigrants? i ask that as well. >> there are a few things, you can get the most authoritative advice from kristin harris, lucky to have her as a witness but if we could have a pathway to citizenship through daca and the conrad 30 program to increase the number of slots in that program that would be a pretty good start. in my longer submitted testimony there are a few other areas we think would also be helpful. >> the chairwoman's time is expired. you are recognized to close us out.

>> thank you, madam chair and thanks to all the witnesses. it is a rare occasion when we have witnesses that have actually testimony that is i am sure offered in good faith and under oath that factually at odds so i am looking forward to getting further information and analysis by doctor thornton so we can sort through how this divergent testimony can be reconciled. i will say when that happens we will make it part of the official record and i'm interested in it. one question i have is whether this relates to the nature of whether it is a different type of degree.

i hope that can be addressed when the analysis is made. miss harris, i heard your testimony, expert on immigration law talking about in justin's to the conrad program but as you may know the house recently passed the america competes act which among other things, immigrants who undergo us medical residency in fellowship programs from numerical limits on green cards. would that be a simpler way to deal with this issue? >> i made reference the so long as technical corrections are

clarified, all of those are outside country limits, that would be an elegant solution to taking these physicians outside country limits. >> i would just note in order to be qualified for a green card you need to actually prove there is no american citizen or legal permanent resident who is able and willing to take the job that has been offered to you so that is the standard and only in that case are you qualified for that visa. i am just interested as well, raghuveer kura, thank you for your service and one of the things i note in the immigration field is people in underserved communities are so

grateful to the physicians who come in to take care of them. i remember when we were pursuing adjustments, the per country has become politically more fraught at this point unfortunately because of actions taken by the u.s. senate talking to a physician from india and his wife who was also a physician in a little town in iowa, they practiced together and they were the only doctors in that town and they were both on h1b visas was he was and she was exempt but the problem was they had, looking at a 50 year wait for a visa and their children is dependents had grown up in the united states and when they reached 21 they were going to have to return to india even though their parents were

living in a little town in iowa and they ultimately did, leaving their patients for the sake of their children, to go to canada where they got the green card equivalent in about 5 months. is that of phenomena and you have seen around the country, among immigrant physicians? >> thank you for the question. yes, i do have one dentist who left the country to canada and one rheumatologist who left the country for canada. my wife is a rheumatologist in a small place in southeast missouri. for six months, the earliest she can see a new patient is 6 months down the road. such is the state of affairs.

>> my time is just about to be expired and i know the chairwoman is going to insist on a but i will just say this, there are a lot of things we need to do, make sure medical education isn't crushingly expensive. we need to make sure we have enough slots for training but those aren't within the jurisdiction of this subcommittee, this issue is and i think it is an important hearing as i yield back to miss scanlon with thanks. >> without objection i would like to enter statements from the following organizations and individuals into the record. we have a letter from the international medical graduates task force 2hhs, i arrest a man from the american medical association and a statement from the educational commission for foreign medical graduates. we have an individual statement from doctor jeffrey singer, senior fellow with his affirmative health policy studies at cato.

that concludes today's hearing but i think our panel of witnesses which without objection all members have 5 legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. without objection the hearing is adjourned. >> victoria newland will testify about russia's invasion of ukraine and give an update on the us and international response was watch live coverage today at 3:00 pm eastern on c-span 3, online, c-span.org or full coverage on our free video apps, c-span now. >> now available for preorder, c-span's 2022 congressional directors. go there to order a copy of the congressional director, this is your guide to the federal government with contract

information for every member of congress, contact information for state governors and the biden administration cabinet. every c-span shop purchase helps support nonprofit operation. >> members of the federal maritime commission testified about the rise of shipping container costs during the covid 19 pandemic. senator maria cantwell of washington state chair the senate commerce committee hearing. >> the u.s. senate committee on commerce science and transportation for ocean shipping, cosponsored by my colleague, senator clover char and senator thune.

i want to welcome our two commissioners. our two maritime commissioners who are here this morning to join us and testify. we will evaluate bipartisan ozone shipping formats, which was cosponsored by 24 bipartisan members during the covid 19 pandemic consumers spend more on e-commerce goods than 2019 to 2020, we saw nearly 32% increase in e-commerce spending in 2020-2021 another 14% increase. this leads to record volumes that us ports which in 2021,

the ports moved 19 containers. in the state of washington, 15.4 volumes over the last year. this volume causes massive backups offshore and 30 vessels are anchored to access ports of los angeles and long beach. as the economy has come back ocean shipping has struggled to keep with the demand and freight costs, pandemic shipping rates about $1300 by 2021. the cost jumped to $11,000. that the 746% increase in freight costs. this means us consumers are paying higher prices every day. in november 2021, a united

nations report says if it continues at this pace through 2023 the cost of importing goods could increase by 11% which would raise consumer prices. the committee worked with numerous provisions included in bipartisan infrastructure law and made a historic investment in infrastructure and development is the total bill included $28 billion for freight infrastructure including $3 billion for costs that are known to be part of the bottleneck problem. we also know that there was a robust federal maritime, we need a robust federal maritime commission and tapped out a nominee to join you who i think has been sworn in as a member. we are taking another step by holding this option -- ocean shipping reform act to provide

tools to crackdown on unfair practices was the bill would direct commissioners to establish rulemaking to establish unfair detention charges, these unfair fees being tapped down to consumers, 2021 report on 20 business ports found the charge doubled between 2020-2021. i will ask specific questions to the members about that. as we heard from our witnesses at a previous hearing on shipping practices chaired by a colleague from michigan, we know these costs are being passed on to the consumers. in addition these unreasonable charges we need to address the complaints our constituents have, that we've heard from many of the important industries across the state of washington.

according to the agriculture transportation coalition, impacted farmers include hand potato farmers, cotton growers from mississippi, soybeans from minnesota, paper products from tennessee, almonds from california, derry from wisconsin, citrus from florida. we are proud of what we make and grow and expect to get to its destination in a timely fashion. it is unclear these consumers are being couched with high prices and very important growers can't get their products to market in a timely fashion was we will hear from the federal maritime commissioner chair and rebecca dye. we want to hear about what you think needs to be done to help address this issue, what tools in the ocean shipping reform act you can use immediately if passed into law to help find real solutions for the market today. we need a commission to offer real intermediate solutions to

get those products to global markets. with that i turn it to my colleague, senator wicker for an opening statement. >> americans feel impacts, transportation supply chain disruptions was these bottlenecks show no signs of letting up throughout 2022. let me note there are only 100 senators, members of this committee, scattered for any number of important meetings but that does not take away the fact that this is a vitally important subject was we have seen the image of dozens of ships waiting to unload. the lack of port terminals and warehouse space, limitations on equipment and workforce disruptions are just as consequential.

all this makes it harder for truckers and railroads to move containers was on top of this, vaccine mandates are hindering transportation of goods. it would be impossible to cover these challenges in one sitting but i appreciate the targeted hearing on ocean shipping and other relevant measures which i hope the committee's next step is a markup on supply chain legislation. i along with others would help ease the movement of goods and reiterate my call for additional hearings with witnesses from the administration and landside, the administration's solutions had little impact. despite the announcement in october of around-the-clock staffing the ports of los angeles are still not open 24/seven.

just one port of los angeles for 24 hour operations as of last week there were 74 ships waiting at the ports of los angeles, the president tried to distract and shift blame by saying the ocean carriers are the reasons for the supply chain crisis and get into that today. rather than addressing the bottlenecks to help american agricultural shippers, retailers and businesses, they are looking for someone to blame rather than finding solutions. and contradictory policy, to stop unreasonable attention and emerging, and the high fees

that were threatened on ports of los angeles. the resistance to modernizing operations, automated terminals and trucks improve efficiency and transparency. i welcomed the president's signature. and traditional infrastructure such as port infrastructure development program. this provides funding to safety, efficiency and reliability, and the freight act, to streamline the licensing process for truck

drivers, address unlawful shipping and provide oversight of transportation operations. senator blackburn to incentivize private sector led -- in memphis. for marine containers, to operate more efficiency. i want to applaud senators kobuchar and thune for introducing the shipping reform format, american importers and exporters, taking steps to illuminate harmful practices in the shipping industry. this should come from the private sector. congress should approve federal regulation or legislation to undermine the fluidity of the freight system.

i want to thank chairman rebecca dunn for being here today. i want to hear the commissioner's rules to include the shipping industry. my friend, senator thune, worked diligently on shipping reform act. then open statement. i request the indulgence of the committee. >> senator thune. >> thank you. thanks to chairman left a for being here. supply chains continue to operate under unprecedented strain, empty store shelves, long wait times and rising costs, based on recent data court congestion continues to worsen and continue to hear

from agricultural producers who are especially feeling the crunch with capacity for goods produced by surging demand, and and and and including south dakota. in 22 in late february. and supported by 100 steps. with anticompetitive behavior. and provide the commission to resolve disputes, particularly to merge charges and we ask to support letter from the trucking association of state department of agriculture,

entered into the hearing record. these changes will provide the commission with clear authority to investigate and intervene unreasonable practices related to the movement of cargo and improve the transparency of the complaint to benefit shippers especially small businesses, to find the process frustrating. positive changes to maritime supply chain which benefit exporters, importers and consumers alike. beyond reforms at the commission our ports are in need of two things. modernization and transparency. automation, with data sharing, puts united states the for the global average and wait times. i'm proud to be a cosponsor of

ranking member wicker's freight act which take strong action to move freight across the supply chain. in light of this the commission's ongoing initiatives to alleviate supply-chain problems and address reports of anticompetitive behavior including those raised in my february 2021 letter with senator kobuchar. you spearheaded efforts to convene stakeholders, fact-finding number 29, with advance notice of proposed rulemaking, for billing practices. i look forward to today's discussion on the ocean shipping reform act, to address challenges at the nation's ports. >> senator kobuchar. thank you for introducing the legislation. >> thank you very much to our two witnesses.

i was amused you saw 25 senators, there was a markup in all these goods. i think my colleague, senator thune was we worked well on many issues across the border and this is certainly a very important one. as has been pointed out by my colleagues the past week 2 years have highlighted significant supply chain disruptions and vulnerabilities for exporters, whether it is a soybean farmer in minnesota or pointed out by the chairwoman, citrus producer in florida, whether it is a beef producer or dairy farmer in wisconsin, people felt in a big way. in the grocery store, trying to

buy eggs or beef, we've seen this across the board, consumers and producers of the goods stocked by this. what do you see on the shipping side. the container shipping industry made a record $190 billion profit in 2021. and increase from the previous year. not because of increased performance. we saw complaints of people's stuff not getting shipped but leasing consumers and exporters because they knew they could get away with it. the cost of shipping containers has quadrupled, us exporters have been slapped with a legitimate fees. this hit small businesses and agriculture communities hard. carriers demand they pay extra ordinary fees with little explanation or opportunity for

appeal. they carry so much market power, some fear retaliation for speaking out. someone who didn't want to be identified because they were afraid there would be retaliation. and alliances on foreign-based, people at home often with shipping their product and exorbitant ways. the supply chain where they are shaking down exporters for their own profits was that is why senator thune and i introduced a bipartisan solution on the shipping reform act which we discussed. it clearly makes it better by protecting american farmers and manufacturers make it easy for them to ship on the bidding for

an ocean carriers ability to post added fees. i was pleased president biden raised this issue in the state of the union. our bill aims to level the playing field for american exporters and regulation, and and, and into the past and into the future. and from unreasonably declining shipping opportunities. it is harder for them to unfairly leave our products behind in favor of importing products from china. he gives the fmc more authority to investigate bad practices by ocean carries and directs the f mc to set new rules for what

carrier companies can charge him exporters require ocean carriers to certify. senator thune and i worked on this. we want to make sure nothing we put in the bill has unforeseen consequences and provide some flex ability for the commission. we have a bipartisan group of 24 cosponsors including nine other members of the committee. in addition to the letter senator thune put on the record i want to enter into the record two letters in support of our bill. the first is an endorsement by 89 -- and the transportation retail federation. the second letter is from the

soybean association, with port authorities along with 100 other groups. one of my first questions when we started working on this given that i have the board of duluth, the twin ports the president visited yesterday. and senator baldwin, freezing cold, the point of it is it's good that we have the support of the port association. thank you, madam chair. >> welcome, we will start with you. >> i represent the port of us we go, new york. i use to represent that.

thank you for ranking member wicker and members of the me. i am honored to appear today to discuss the authorities of the fmc and legislative proposals to strengthen them. the dramatic surge led to reliability and import congestion not just in the united states but around the world, container ships and ports grouted with high stacks of containers draw media attention but they can be misleading. what you see is a manifestation of mail and supply chain problems, cargo facilities, shortages of equipment and shortages of warehouse workers and truckers. america's ports handle safely and efficiently millions more containers than ever before in us history. record numbers are a tribute to the port companies and workers that never stopped even in the worst days, and increased productivity, the ethical

demand for ocean services overwhelmed and freight rates have gone up dramatically compared to pre-covid levels. the biggest increases are hitting smaller and medium-sized shippers and farmers who don't have the shipping volume the biggest retailers have. the situations is defied easy answers was the maritime commission has responded to the supply-chain challenges, aggressively and comfortably as we can. with intensified enforcement paying particular attention to ocean carriers, we challenged fees and surcharges slapped on top of high freight rates and increased monitoring requirements on ocean carrier alliances, provided guidance and implement a program to audit the ninth largest carrier lines and achieve compliance with interpretive role. my highest priorities the fmc to promote access to export markets for producers including farmers. this is difficult for

agricultural exports put it the greatest disadvantage due to the scarcity of equipment and agricultural regions and in particularly of when ships will take on export boxes. commissioner dye has found ways to make it easier for exporters to get their boxes on ships. i fully support them. appointing a veteran of the ocean shipping industry, in-house export advocate in consumer affairs bureau. fmc's auditing will expand its scope to get information from carriers and handling of exports. and bureau of enforcement is prioritizing any case involving exporters. i believe we are pushing up to the limits of the authority under the shipping laws. since enactment of these laws, the global container trade has grown exponentially. over the years consolidation of

carrier companies, half the major competitors. and the laws governing, demand surge. to chair cantwell and ranking member wicker for holding this hearing including new authorities that provide additional leverage over regulated entities and better protect shippers from unfair practices. the fmc can do some needed rulemaking, even without enacting new legislation updating our statute to remove ambiguity about congress's priorities on export issues and ocean shipping contract reform, as senator kobuchar stated, minimizing unintended consequences like disruption of chad trade, service disruptions or new compliance costs.

it should be a balanced approach now and in the future when we get past the supply-chain disruptions we face today. thank you for your attention and look forward to answering your questions. >> ms. dye, thank you for being here. >> good morning. >> could you pull the microphone a little closer? >> yes. chair cantwell, ranking member wicker, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear here today with chairman eleanor holmes norton -- 13. thank you for your legislation establishing the first federal maritime commission shipper advisory committee, they are hard at work.

we've had a great turnout. the fourth major investigation i have conducted, following is a brief explanation of relevant issues you may wish to consider. detention enforcement is on everyone's mind. the united states is the first nation in the world to take steps to confine these charges for the purpose they are intended. to incentivize shippers to pick up cargo and return equipment during the allotted time frames. the interpretive rule, we shifted the risk to where it belongs. for problems in the port, especially port congestion, two carriers and marine terminals, to bear the risk of those charges. a major misunderstanding

surrounds the nature of the rule. the rule is not mere guidance. the rule provides an interpretation of detention charges as potential unreasonable practices under the section of the shipping act that requires carriers, ports and terminals and intermediaries to have reasonable practices. today we are investigating violations and file complaints concerning unreasonable practices. whether it is through filing a complaint or giving notice to the commission's bureau enforcement we need facts from shippers to pursue detention violations and i can assure the committee that if any of my

colleagues heard even any indication of retaliation, we would ask and we appreciate your strengthening those retaliation provisions in legislation. the commission recently moved forward on the recommendation of publishing a notice of proposed rulemaking to respond to shipper concerns regarding billing problems. the commission is cooperating with the port of los angeles, the 6 week experiment to determine the information contained in their port optimizer, whether it would be useful for detention. the ultimate goal of these efforts are to require ocean carriers to change their billing systems for detention charges in the first place. for some time i have been

concerned service contracts entered into between shippers and ocean carriers lack mutual commitment. this ambiguity about mutual enforceability and so-called contracts cause severe consequences to shippers especially exporters in times of high demand for cargo space, binding contracts with the space they need. i do not recommend the commission regulates service contracts, but i support the commission providing greater information to shippers on the value of mutual commitment and contracting and the availability of shippers associations to leverage volume for freight charges and service contracts. they are useful in other areas

of import and could be extremely useful to medium and small exporters to band together to get good deals and commitment on ocean carriers. i will work with our stakeholders as we work to bring it to a close was i promise to continue this effort as long as the pandemic continues was we hope and pray we are moving out of this. moving on to the next phase. the commission will focus enforcement resources on unreasonable detention. we have several interim final

recommendation this that i included in my written statement. one of those is a new outreach program to provide guidance on maritime terminology. what i do, in the supply-chain and work diligently to fix those. one of my recommendation this is a program i started that was very responsive to their problems called rapid response. the ceos of carriers promised me personally to respond by picking up the phone if the head of consumer affairs calls

and says we have an emergency right now and you need to respond. the ceo makes a call the problem gets fixed. we are starting that again. we are doing this and other things and we are pleased to hear from you with other suggestions and work with you, the shipping environment for our exporters. i appreciate it. >> i will start with senator kobuchar and go to senator fisher. >> thank you for allowing me to do that. being chair of this committee and the city of seattle. we all have talked how much

more extensive it is for manufacturers for farmers and ranchers and ag exports, ocean carriers returning to asia with empty containers. you note this legislation, for unfair practices and for ocean carriers to unreasonably decline shipping opportunities. >> could not have been anticipated, there is not even though in the purpose a section of the shipping act, to address whether or not ocean carriers take exports or not. there's an unreasonable refusal to deal and in order to prove that we need to prove a carriers refusing to deal with exporters and that is unreasonable. there is a lot of pop up

carriers showing up, and export. drop it off. individual cases, to deal with exports they could make the argument that is not unreasonable. we need specific -- >> reason for the bill. i heard from one trucking company, $100 in late fee is because it took months to make an appointment to return their empty container because of the overcapacity of the terminal. we need stronger rules on what they can charge shippers. >> there are these fees and

make them more clear. that is already illegal and against the rules. not sure they should have been billed at all. that's the case. >> how is the work you have already begun? what challenges do you face when updating the system? >> we have to agree on particular places. what should be interrupted. i am working for exporters on a terrible problem with earliest return date, and engage with your experts to be loaded on a ship. we are going to start advance notice on that particular service because it got out of

hand. there is a point at which many exporters are charged. directly with the ocean carrier, we never charged that. .. that. >> i want to get to one other thing in my remaining minute. do you agree there should be stronger regulations protecting against retaliation? >> i certainly support the provision both in your your bill and senator wicker. >> very good. ms. dye? >> yes. >> very good. one more question here. can you speak to the investments in our infrastructure, and this is a bipartisan infrastructure bill, how thisnf could help add support?

>> it's like water on the dry desert. i just came from l.a., less than 48 hours ago. the ports, they need more and they can quibble about the number and wish they had even more but finally they feel they've been recognized, , finay they feel there is a i hadn't specifically for them and it will do tremendous good. unfortunately that's not overnight. takes a while to build out facilities and particularly those rail and in yard things. >> very good. one thing what point out chair of the antitrust subcommittee come separate issue, i'll have you come maybe talking about this at the end with our colleagues are done -- >> all stay as long as you want. >> the top three allowances control 80% as you know of foreign shipping of the global container ship capacity and 95% of asia-pacific trade lines. i think that's an important thing for us to consider. i have several villain this on the antitrust side but how would

you characterize the experience in challenging alliance agreement? >> we've not even tried, and that goes for many, many, many years, different chairman, different general councils. i think it is in 86 it made sense. i wouldn't say i would've voted against it then but how difficult it is now. the burden of proof now if we challenge these alliances on the commission, on the government lawyers. for me,mp and i think my colleae may have a different view but i would put the burden of proof on these ass you say ford owned carriers and their veryy expensive law firms. >> i will let you answer later, ms. dye. what you to my colleagues. thank you. >> senator fischer. >> thank you madam chairman. thank you both for being here today. chairman maffei and commissioner dye i've heard from number of agricultural exporters that they feel when you file a complaint

with the commission they would seek retaliation. you give a very short answer to senator klobuchar with regards to her bill, but what can the fmc do now to protect those shippers from retaliation when did you file complaint? >> commissioner dye already spoke to it which is absolutely anything on that immediately rise to the top priority of anything we would investigate, absolutely would be unforgivable. >> you would immediately begin an investigation? >> absolutely. and it the merits were there we would immediatelye assumes we could have the best case. >> and how many detention and complaints of been filed against oceann carriers for any unfair practices since the start of the pandemic? >> one way i could answer that question, without a doubt. because we've gotten like you

hundreds and hundreds of complaints were people don't want to put p their names on it because they're concerned about one thing or another. in terms of the complaints we've actually got what people really to file a formal complaint, it is, you know, over 100. we are trying to investigate every single one of them. we have three cases already, specific cases, called essentially indictments but three specific carrier lines and i expect more to come. but there are number of them. sometimes the facts don't know about. sometimes the carrier lines are following the letter of the rules but not the spirit but they're there also legitimate cases i believe. >> do you think something to be changed with the filing process to improve it so it's not such a long, arduous process? >> i would love suggestions. we have tried, we have a consumer affairs bureau. we've beefed up that. i put this export, commissioner dye and i discussed long before

that. we're trying to figure out ways to help then file it. i actually think the kind of coalition that rebecca dye is talking about, they can help. we've been talking to them. that doesn't meann i don't want to do more but any ideas you or your staff or your constituents have i would be very willing to listen to it. >> you have anything to add on that, commission? >> yes. i agree with the chairman. we have a complaint process sort of like a small claims court, and many of our shippers have had good results with that and i would like to see that expanded. and adapted in other ways. as the chairman says, what you hear would be h valuable to us, you know. to shippers. >> commissioner, you've made a significant contribution to the

format in 1988 and i think you offer a unique perspective. what other tools are at the disposal to prevent congestion when they fail to influence to pick up that cargo? >> for a small agency the chair man and i have lots of additional thoughts. i prefer outreach. the ocean carriers will say the business is not that complicated. terribly complex. podcasts, for example, a way for us to talk to our shipping

public and help them through some of these complexities to their benefit. >> can you explain how it works and what the advantages are to manage containers in this matter? >> it's extremely useful especially some of the marine terminals and long beach and large shippers simply validate cargo in one area and take it to a different location to pick up. it doesn't work for all of them on the business model. in october of 21, the white house announced that the port of los angeles would expand to a 24 hour operation, which would be consistent with the port of long beach. however, the local warehouses don't operate those same hours.

mr. chair man, what benefit is therefore los angeles and the 24/7 operation if the warehouses don't have the same hours? >> the answer is of course you beat them. it's a chicken and egg problem. why would we open 24 hours if the port is not open? we have to work together. this problem isn't going to be solved by the fomc or the senate by the stakeholders and that's where we focus so much with the incredible connections to try to convene and talk to them and frankly occasionally to callout when we don't think various parties are willing to discuss stuff. i will say 24/7 is the phrase and the particular it doesn't have to be 24/7 but late nights,

saturday, sunday whatever works it shouldn't be dictated before hand but we need everybody to sort of jumped out once, so the point is well taken. >> thank you madam chair. >> senator baldwin. >> thank you, madam chair. good to see you again. i understand that you will be in milwaukee tomorrow. >> i will be. >> so i really wanted -- >> it's not cold enough here. >> it's warmer in milwaukee for wisconsin it's down south. >> we had a chilly but warm experience in northern wisconsin. i just wanted to express my appreciation for speaking directly with the growers and agricultural shippers across the midwest about the solutions to challenges in the global supply

chain. the agriculture industry is bearing the ground of supply chain disruptions and dairy farmers and other exporters in my state are looking for immediate and long-term solutions for these issues. so i am a cosponsor of the legislation and wanted to interpretative your visit to milwaukee wisconsin. >> i will share that with the other commissioners. the four of us to travel a lot. one of the components is getting out and we appreciate the independence. we served one term together so you may not know about my families background we grew up on dairy in upstate new york.

>> in testimony before the marine subcommittee, the maritime subcommittee last summer you noted that improving the availability would be critical as they recover from the pandemic. home to one of the domestic manufacturers and just so happened i visited that facility last week to discuss my supply chain resiliency act with critical supply products. i would like to have you talked about strengthening the industrial base for the critical supply chain products and in your view, has that helped the

u.s. supply chain better manage the covid-19 pandemic and what threats do you see out there and opportunities? >> i understand, senator. it's a huge challenge for the country. i worked particularly with an innovation team in memphis, tennessee and the senator had mentioned that i would be delighted to talk to your company. i would be interested to see what they do and get their perspectives. i would appreciate it. >> as an aside, there's been dumping of product that have

acknowledged that is a problem and a challenge, but they are persevering. we have heard stories time and time again about departing the coast and leaving made in america products behind as much as 70% of the containers with major ports being shipped empty and that deprives american agricultural exporters of the important means of transportation so a two-part question. the fmc do they have the authority to regulate the reasonable availability for the exporters and if not should we

address this legislation? >> it isn't a shortage of containers if you look at all the containers. we have too many in some places but the shortage particularly of those used by agriculture and the shortage of the containers in those places they are in the wrong place, they are sitting at a port as opposed to getting out in the countryside. a lot of the work, and i will answer the second question completely but the first answer part of what we're doing and what she is doing on the front lines is trying to figure out exactly how they get their therecontainers and how best wen help. we have no specific authorities

on containers obviously equipment, there are some provisions and that's where we get the charges but directly there is no provision that says we can't tell the carriers they have to provide to a certain place and i will be honest with you people talk about the prizes and certainly export prices are a problem, but those will come down again. they may even go back to normal. the problem that will persist as isthe logistical problem the exporters face because they tend to be heavier. it's not so much about the number of containers but the quality getting them in the right place and getting it at the right time. if you get it there too early, your stuff will rot if you get it there too late, you are not even going to get on the ship and it's a big challenge and it's a logistical challenge that

we need to focus on. >> thank you, madam chair. i really don't know where to start. all i know is that are they still lined up outside of the harbors or are they pretty much emptied out? there are some smart people putting things together but they are not actual, they are virtual. they've been hit exceptionally hard that we cannot get off our shores so then correct me if i'm wrong on this, p pandemic a container was about 1300 and now

it's 11,000. >> it's so dependent unfortunately not very transparent. it doesn't mean, it means they are looking at different things. >> so why isn't it a transparent? >> because of market power. we get a lot of stuff reportedly contracts but we are not allowed to share that with the public. it's proprietary information. >> the difference is in the governing laws. >> there's nothing wrong with transparency any level of government including that one. >> we are huge advocates and i will say to answer the question about the specific rate they've gone up dramatically but much more for smaller shippers and in

a market where you've got the sort of scarcity if there's more capacity but more demand, they worry about their biggest customers. >> senator klobuchar said they control 80% of the freight. >> the alliances of carriers. >> is there a difference between what i just said and the truth of the alliance? >> the carriers that are part of the alliance are not allowed to discuss prices with each other and if they do they are violating the antitrust law. they have no immunity discussing the rage. >> i would say it's a shared oversight of the department of justice can look into it. >> how do you get information you have subpoena authority.

it is the fact you have shippers that are screwing the little guy. how do you get that information? >> we have a broad capacity to request information as they have to provide it and as we have already discussed it is proprietary so that does create an issue we can't publicize it. we have asked for much more since the crisis has begun. >> i think that it's fundamentally wrong to meet up small businesses in this country because of small businesses. i think it is fundamentally wrong. but that is just my opinion. so, they dump off a lot of goods

because the trade difference is still big, and then they leave the ports and don't take anything on the ship going back. obviously doing that because they can make more money. >> yes. they argue, because i share with you what you just said i do think it is fundamentally wrong to victimize a small businesses but they will make the argument that it costs so much in this time of demand. >> we allow them to charge us more because we are the united states of america. to charge us more so they are going to screw us not taking our products out and there's nobody watching the shop?

>> somehow it was interpreted the other day. that is a false statement and what i will say is we are looking at all of these reports and if any sort of wrongdoing that we find we are ready to investigate or we may already be investigating. and that goes to the alliance of any individual carriers to the full extent of the law if the evidence is there. my time is way over. i'm going to tell you that it doesn't make any sense we allow the ships to leave the ports. we have stuff that needs to be shipped out. if the big guys are more powerful than the united states, then we've got to figure out

something else because it sounds like they do what they want, when they want but have little transparency, don't let that information get out to the general public so they know how bad they are getting taken to the cleaners and we don't have the tools to deal with it. the senate doesn't fix much, but man, if we can fix this that would be a giant step forward. >> one of the things the legislation has is if we could collect and report to the public the aggregate numbers of exports at least the public would know who the good guys are and the bad guys are. >> but in the end, what we need to know is why can't we export the products with other countries, when china can import, why can't we export? what is going on and somebody needs to get out a big baseball bat and educate some folks.

i'm going to follow up on your line of questioning because i wholeheartedly agree and somebody that's spent time on another agency with the time of another crisis, we need these agencies to be more robust and if that means giving them more power, we need to do that. i saw senator young remotely. i don't know if he's available or not but we will go to senator lee. thank you, madam chair. the rate we are experiencing in this area, are they tied to supply and demand restraints? in other words, is there any evidence of this resulting from

an artificial constraint of cargo supply? >> it's primarily do to the huge demand in the wake of covid that has hit the country. we have examined and will continue to examine whether there is any artificial lowering of supply. we found a fair amount of increase of supply. some of the carriers ordered more ships and there's been basically more than 99% of what can go out in the ocean is on the ocean. >> so in other words, they've increased capacity in response to increased demand. if there are anti-competitive practices occurring, does the fomc have the authority under the existing law to take legal

action? >> i would say the legal burdens are rather high in a technical sense but we do have the authority and we will use it whether or not you pass legislation if we have the merits of the cases allow it. >> the reason i ask, i hate to see these things happen. it's hard to deal with the outgrowth of this with the supply chain network. i hate seeing these increases as a result of it and it's hurting everything. i also want to make sure that we are throwing the right resources in the right way. i appreciated a statement that you made in an article from a couple of days ago when you said

the ocean carriers as a whole are moving more containers than pre- pandemic and the ports are by and large doing their job. that is on the inboard side butt yes that is absolutely true. we started seeing the sales hitting a pretty unprecedented rate and that frustrated or complicated the supply chain infrastructure and workforce. some of the challenges were spread out over a broad spectrum, but they included thed things like truck drivers shortages, outdated scheduling technology, work concentration, lack of storage for containers, labor difficulties and scarce equipment including truck

chassis. the ocean shipping reform act, which we are considering today is something being presented as a way to address these issues. can you help me understand how exactly would this address the supply chain challenges mentioned? it gives the commission a lot more leverage in dealing with these issues in convening groups as has been pointed out and if you have time i would yield to the commission on the specific equipment pieces. the solution isn't going to come from the government but a catalyst to the solutions on the various stakeholders. they are complicated.

overall they look simple but they are complicated to solve them. >> i'm almost out of time. i appreciate you asking that, raising that because i want to make sure we first do no harm and because i don't see anything in the bill that addresses those issues, i, my instinct to do no harm kicks in because increased government involvement can often take things more difficult. section five prohibits from retaliating by refusing or threatening to refuse cargo space accommodations when available for any reason. it seems the goal is to respond to the controversy the carriers are taking empty containers and not the experts back to asia. they bring more back to the united states.

now, my understanding is the supply chain prices and some of the things we've had significant problems with these are all creating a serious backlog but if the provisions were passed, could they end up slowing down the availability to move them out of the port and exacerbate the current backlogs? it's my assessment they would have that effect. how am i wrong in thinking that? >> obviously they would have to be administered. there are some who advocate the quota. they have to take this number specifically. that could lead to what you are

worried about because if they feel that that's not in their own business interest they might avoid them altogether. they wouldn't stop it and even if we try to close that loophole may be that would put more on the import or cost so you are right to feel worried about that. it will give the flexibility we need without going too far but that is my own personal view. >> this is my concern is you have reiterated it perfectly and it's why i've introduced legislation and i will be reintroducing shortly with some updates. that will address some of the challenges we are facing. this bill will not if it threatens to make them worse. >> senator warnock? >> i hear about the rising costs

every day and its impact on their lives part of the rising costs it seems to me is cracking down on the corporations and of the wealthy executives taking advantage of the market volatility. making decisions with their pocketbooks it's hard to wrap your mind around how much money large ocean carriers are making in the shipping industry has made during this global crisis. the numbers speak for themselves. industrywide quarterly profits increased nearly 2000% since early in the pandemic. one ocean carrier reported $17 billion in profits for a

single order last year. so, consumers are seeing record prices, corporate entities in this case large ocean carriers record profits and that's why i wrote a letter calling on the white house supply chain disruption task force to investigate what appears to be price gouging by some of these foreign-based companies raking in the record profits and it's also why i am a proud cosponsor of the bipartisan shipping reform act, the whole bad actors in the shipping industry accountable. i think the onus is on those that want to explain the 2000% increase in the profit in the middle of a pandemic. commissioner as you've observed these record profits over the last two years, have you seen

improved shipping services to account for these kinds of problems where the complaints are increased? >> senator, of course we don't regulate the rates in the federal maritime commission. but is the difference between a contract rate and default rate and some of the extremes have been when they are literally bid up. we need to put more work into letting the exporters understand. in the few times that we find ourselves in this extreme demand, so of course you are

right. we've all read about those spikes. have we seen improved shipping services that would account? >> we have not. what i do is not so much look at the rate or other things we literally cannot deal with. to tell them although you can't fix the warehouse there are measures we can do to move

forward and we are doing that. it's not only colleagues and friends. the commission stands ready to enforce the act we've been investigating many specific cases. those enforcement actions can come at any time and no one is off the hook in terms of whether the service has gotten better. there's a lot more shipping. more shipping, more quantity than ever before. the quality has gone down a lot. i wish i had better metrics for you in terms of the timely arrivals and in terms of

predictability and any measure you could have. you can't be laid out in those executives. >> i don't think anybody's arguing that there is any single reason. i mean, we are dealing with supply chain disruptions. does the federal maritime commission currently have all the tools it needs from congress to fulfill its mission and assure competitive and reliable ocean transportation's? >> senator, i am extremely glad you asked that question. i do not feel we do. people feel we are doing our best with the resources given us and it's less than 120 employees. we do have authorization for more than that and we are a very small agency. we certainly could use more

resources. the amount depends if you are giving no more authority or not and how quickly, how feasible it is to hire them to ramp up on those sort of decisions but there's no question many of the members of the committee already a lot of work in doing that. there's a lot of good efforts to try to do that so i appreciate you asking that, senator. >> we could pursue more but we simply don't have enough tools. >> which is why i support the ocean shipping reform act in an effort to close the gaps and protect the public from the unfair deceptive practices. thank you so much. >> thank you. senator soon. >> thank you, madam chair.

the practices that also establish a separate streamline complaint process to move or i should say to more efficient results. do you believe that further constitutes an unreasonable charge to help alleviate some of the confusion surrounding the current process? >> thank you, senator soon. of course. and i would add the commission would enforce any law that is enacted. we are interpreting and enforcing the rule so i wouldn't want anyone to think that we are waiting around for the new authority but we will continue to work with you on those issues and of course, yes. if there was a particular ready

that would help enforcement, of course we would favor it. >> let me ask you a question and you can both respond to this, but i want to correct the record on the intent of the reform act, and i think i said this in the opening. our bill is not intended to fix the supply chain crisis overnight. instead, this bill makes improvements and clarifications to the authorities that allow it to more easily intervene when truly egregious and anticompetitive behavior is discovered, and i realize fully that the supply chain crisis goes well beyond the ports and this bill is just one piece of the puzzle but could i have you comment on how clarifying, or the clarifications i should say to the fomc authority will improve the fluidity of the ocean shipping. do you care to comment on that?

>> i think there's a lot of provisions in the bill that would help certainly provisions on making it clear where the congress stands on detention. make no mistake, the recommendation that came out of the previous fact that set this rule, it is a very simple rule if attention to help move cargo they are okay, if they don't, they are not. i would have thought that was enough. i was naïve so we have to do more. having congress behind that is very important. it also gives more leverage in many different ways in terms of the burden shifting and detention so no longer will a small agricultural shipper have to take a picture of every little thing. and i'm asking people, take a picture of the sign that says you can't get in the port.

the carrier has to prove that it's legitimate. that's huge. that's just a couple of examples. >> i think the issue that we talked about earlier and the problems with paying storage is a very clear example. and there are a few others like that that are more obscure, but i agree with the chairman. if they are helpful to us, we would be delighted to have the authority. i also believe our outreach to help them understand first of all we are determined and second of all, to understand this principle that we used is

working. >> i appreciate the statement with the options for shippers to file complaints and don't have a lot of time but is there anything else you believe the commission can do to improve transparency and efficiency of the complaint process? >> we have literally revamped the enforcement approach. we have 35 cases i think outstanding and that will proceed to final case law to provide precedence. but you should be assured that we are doing everything we can and i have had personal conversations with ocean carriers whom i believe get it

and are going to change, if they don't, we have revised a lot of our rules on ways that they can recover their payments even if we charge for violations of the law which is a unique approach to law enforcement so we are pulling out all the stops on this because the world is watching us. i hear from our friends in australia, they want to follow this approach, and that would be

great globally. >> my understanding is the fomc maritime initiative regularly has been meeting to discuss current challenges with maritime data and to suggest improvements. could you provide an update on that initiative? >> quickly on the last question we are working on a lot of different ideas. the best ideas don't come from us but from the shippers themselves and that's where we got the idea of having the export to help individuals navigate. we all know the data is going to be a huge part of the future and as i mentioned to senator tester and the stuff we get is proprietary but that doesn't mean we can't do aggregate studies it's just right now there is no standard. it's a complex issue though so i asked one of my colleagues, the former commerce committee staff

person, to look into the issue. some of you know he gets into this stuff is talking to everybody. i'm proud he's having open meetings and anyone can join into these. it's a series of meetings and i cannot tell you any confusion so far but we are looking into it and hope to be with a bipartisan help to guide all of the use of data issues because it is a huge component. >> senator hagan luber. >> thank you, madam chair and both of you for your experts. i'm sure you have lots of anecdotal evidence. one of our outdoor companies the shipping containers increased from 1500 to $2,000 to $15,000

in 2021. small outdoor toy company that could suffer 2 million in losses this year which for them would be catastrophic. the typical costs increase what they could ship for $6,000 now suddenly is $30,000. 99% of the shipments were delayed or booked for different time and were rebooked 17 times on a delay. so with the skyrocketing costs, how has the export position of the office of consumer affairs helped small businesses register complaints and get that information to you about the carrier practices without fear of retaliation? >> the fear of retaliation, we are doing everything about it and additional help in the

committee would be good. i cannot say anecdotally that i know of some people who did file complaints. they just were those people that had the guts to settle the complaints and believe it or not the relationship with the carrier is better. but it does happen. each case is different. so in some cases consumer affairs can solve it. i was a member of congress briefly. i know your governor well. we used to get cases, you know what you do. if you don't get the right answer you pick up the phone and call the executive. we do that. i do that, the commissioner does it. every commissioner does that and we are proud to so that sometimes helps. but other times.

frankly at the moment filing their own case is better because if they get the damages, they get to keep them. your legislation by the way he would allow us to file a case and then be able to revert some of the damages to the party. current law doesn't allow that. but in any event, that's why we do try to help each and every case navigate. also to be candid, a lot of folks have a lot of complaints but at the end of the day, the things they saw doesn't say it and they are too often written just to protect the carriers and it's like when any of us sign those agreements online i know every member reads every word of those agreements before clicking yes. but some of it is just that sort of thing. small businesses that haven't looked at the contracts for years because frankly before the pandemic there was plenty of space. they were willing to sell it

because they never ran out. now that's different. >> looking into the issue it isn't a lack of competition but a lack of space. one could make the argument through all these years the market power does exist. the primary driver though is this incredible demand we wouldn't have the crisis today if it were not for this. before, there was actually oversupplied. >> which means we should be able to accommodate that bottleneck pretty quickly. as you are aware, the u.s. and cultural experts have been hit hard by the destruction sand delay. we had a company in colorado with a multibillion-dollar distributor conveyed the shipping costs for the products

increased 57% since the beginning of 2021 with no sign of stopping. how well will this reduce the cost of shipping in u.s. agriculture? >> the rulemaking that i mentioned, i can assure you we kept on top of the ocean carriers for example how if there is an overwhelming demand now, what are we doing for the united states to correct that in the future? none of us know exactly how long, whether or not the demand will continue. but we understand of the information was provided that

705 new ships are on order and a lot of that capacity will be available to the united states. >> and how many were decommissioned in the last 18 months? my understanding is they haven't decommissioned and suddenly the numbers. so they go to new ships on order but it seems to be a backlog, as a result of backlogs. that's what we should be addressing and what i think you are addressing. >> one of the issues if it seems simple to add more, that is one of the reasons we have these lines, they end up waiting in line so you are quite right it isn't as simple as that capacity and it's also the overall supply chain capacity that has both of us in disgust and the chair and ranking member both mentioned there's a lot on these issues and that is where the capacity is strained. >> the bipartisan infrastructure bill will address some of those. >> i will yield back.

>> i don't know, senator klobuchar, if you have more questions. i'm going to ask my round of questions. i'm not sure if we have other colleagues joining us online, but if not, that will probably wrap this up for the hearing. so, i'm just kind of a last call announcement to anyone that might be out there joining us. i wanted to go back and listen for me in the northwest this is about agricultural products that need to get to international markets and in a timely fashion. there are some of these products that are highly perishable, so timing matters. so, the way that i see this, the reason you exist is because the united states of america set the terms for people to come to the ports and deliver products, is that not right? that is the history? >> we've gotten away from that and part of the purpose is the section. >> part of what senator tester was saying is we are letting everybody come here and make

bank. huge increases increased their productivity, and yet they are making bank and that is what is happening. you don't seem to have the authority which i'm going to try to get at and what we need to do it. we are going to pass legislation. we are going to fight for these who need to get their product to international markets. first and foremost, under section 411 of the common carriers it says any person directly or indirectly may not give any undue or unreasonable preferences or on the properly unreasonable prejudice or

disadvantages and then that is in section sub eight and nine is any undue preferences or advantage for unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage with respect. so, why doesn't that give you enough today and doesn't allow you to say to these major shipping companies that basically have been even more consolidated so it's not like somebody that says i will deal with the shippers and get them to asia, that isn't happening. they are just coming back, getting more cargo and jamming them through the ports. .. >> coming to the united states. >> i know how they're making money, it's in the paper in the

wall street journal, making a lot of money, when trying to get out is white in the existing authorities right there, does not allow you to do something about these unreasonable rates and what is this make the carriers given themselves by saying the word we are offering space and if they want to pay, as much as the importer, we will give them space and therefore were not discriminating. >> what is the rate increase, over 100 percent increase. >> what was the net, we talked about this a great deal. >> how is that reasonable and how you determined that is reasonable. >> so as, 60 on the shipping act, allows empowered to get a federal court to get an injunction of the determines that agreements between carriers are likely to produce an unreasonable increase in transportation cost and do you agree that dramatic increase

during the pandemic is an unreasonable increase of transportation cost. >> was certainly a great that is a colossal increase whether it would be unreasonable under the law, that's more complicated question but i will say that though i am not sure we do have evidence, we are looking into whether we can connect these costs to the individual carriers or others in either way, is a huge problem. >> they are unreasonable cost and they're not even able to pay it so were giving access to our course who basically believe in trade we are in one of the most trade -dependent state in the nation i believe the trend is probably more than 90 percent of the people in the united states, there like the top and we believe in it okay so we want to have the shipping industry work, effectively but it can be a one-way street as we cannot have products left on the docks so we want to have if you don't feel

you can go to the course right now, for unreasonable rates are you do not feel like the definition strong enough lesson, about those three statutes related to unfairness after practice and practice is immune oblation it or not there's lock is already in this area since i do think i really want to kneel down here what is it that you - >> undercurrent law, a right no matter how high an end of it not unreasonable, how that rate, is an alliance how to dig into the rate. >> it is not about alliance, we have 70 abstract immune ablation will natural gas and set new laws because it was my collusion on as many coming together and setting a price, is about you he a marketing condition basically service the customer and you have small customers here who are not getting served that is the issue and so they cannot get

their products out of our course and the importers cannot get the product out because they can make more money being exported to the united states in bringing our products back into asia to a doubt that your observations are well taken a points are right, this bill with us bill is written in 1986, 36 years ago and we didn't have mobile phones enemy, the industry changes so much that is why is so important that we updated we do not have the authority to relate the rights we don't have the authority to send an acute have to do this to small business and not just patent to the big box stores and we do not have that their authority and sometimes i wish i did if you give it to me, i will use whatever authority that the congress sees fit to give us that were definitely going to give you those authorities but the question is whether we get it because you cannot afford not to get this right we cannot afford this to continue to play and so i will say for the record, something

more defining on are beyond the reasonable rate. >> would be be glad to give you something. >> and also at the federal maritime commission, mall for a commission in a strong one and that is why we also send a new nominee to you and hopefully that will be smart expertise from the real-life experience. >> yes somebody is working the next. >> i think that is very good experience but i that we have to crystallize here, what exactly are we talking about enemy when i read this, the authorities intimated you should be able to go to the force right now and have reasonable increases in transportation costs and you should be able to do that but will write one for the record that will get to the right questions. >> i think eunice i have one additional question and i appreciate senator cantwell's line of questioning and cares a

lot about this as well pretty so we will return i want to make something clear simply is that these price increases in the consumer's have experienced are in fact related to the supply chain problems when it comes to shipping any believe they are mr. mckay, not the only reason but a reason. >> without qualification yes. >> okay and thank you. and so i look forward to moving our bipartisan legislation swiftly and i will not there's another bill that is been mentioned by me and a few other >> the anti-trust piece of this, and that, in fact, there is immunity right now, correct? >> there is, yes, there's a limited immunity. as i say that immunity can be gained by filing with us and letting 45 days pass and we have the burden of proving to the court that that wouldn't be

right within 45 days, and i personally feel that is almost impossible standard. so, and by the way, those never expires, and that is something else i'd like to talk to you about, senator. >> that would be very helpful because we of course, have a bill to get rid of the anti-trust immunity and with the members of the judiciary committee for this industry because i see no reason when you have a near monopoly situation when it comes to the alliances, that this would remain. >> and there's reasons why you might not agree that there ever should be an anti-trust immunity. i will say though that it depends on the circumstances. and as high as they are right now, that they could do that, there's certainly a credible scenario if prices go back down, getting rid of the alliances, the carriers are already to collude on prices,

this could create more bankruptcy and such as-- that we thought could never happen. >> you're saying in addition to getting rid of immunity, you could get rid of the times and more defined in terms of how you handle the anti-trust. >> precisely. i'm talking about getting rild of the immunity alone in a vacuum and hoping they will solve thing. >> it's more complex than that. you're right. there are ways to do. >> we'd like to talk to you with your staff, about how we handle our competition laws because we -- our-- >> okay. . >> and so, first of all, that we have to show a reduction in competition. >> understand. that's why we are-- >> so we'd love to talk to you, nobody is immune from competition laws. >> well, and given these prices, you know, given

seven-fold increase in profits, something's going wrong here and that's why senator thune and i have this bill to take one approach, similar to the house bill, but includes the anti-trust and we've broken it up here. and that's why we're going to get something done here and hopefully we'll never see anything like this again. but i do want to thank both of you for your hard work, and the work you've done here. it's opened up, i think, a lot of avenues for us here to pursue and i believe that the maritime commission needs additional tools to do your work in a way that's good for consumers and for-- >> no argument. >> thank you, just to clarify you reduced the bill in the last several years, is that correct? we used to have heavier stick and-- >> in fact, fines have gone down.

there is a -- some chronic issues with enforcement in my view that i am attempting to solve. my top priority is getting back on track and happy that we have three cases, you may say that's not much. but these more than we've added in the past decades. there are some legacy issues we're dealing with in a bipartisan way and can i say one quick thing, you know, i did-- i served in the house and producing when i was there, at the largest apple producing county outside of washington state and in wayne county, new york. and there's not a whole lot of opportunities these days to do something bipartisan that's going to help people with farm land and inner cities and this is one of them. >> it's why you're here. >> and i just-- and it's a thank you because i really appreciate it and just, if i can encourage, you know, no bill is perfect, but this

will sure help. >> well, no, no, no. we're going to get something that works, and so it's too important to the growers and trust me, not a fan of the trump tariff, not a fan of the trade wars that got created. these people have taken it on the chin, so we're not going to create more havoc, we're going to help them and get legislation that does so. with that, and unless any of my other colleagues, the record will stay open-- >> thank you so much. i want to thank senator klobuchar for producing this information. i think it's an important piece of legislation and very important, healthy start, and as senator klobuchar reminded me, this also is in the house version, that you seek out and the bill that we're trying to seek and negotiate out. but i personally would like if the senate would show some initiative and action on this, to clarify where we are in addition to the house, i think that would be helpful.

so the hearing record will remain open for two weeks, until 2022. any senators who would like to create for the record. we ask that your responses be returned returned to the committee as quickly as possible and in no case two weeks after the receipt. that closes today's hearing, again, thank you to the commission.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> intelligence community leaders released their annual report on security threats facing the united states and its allies. a house committee on intelligence asks questions today, live at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span 3, on-line at c-span.org or watchful coverage on our free video app. c-span now. >> next, parents from virginia discuss grass roots activision and the school mask mandate facing students. this from the conservative political action conference in orlando, florida.