c-span now free mobile app or where you get your podcasts. >> now appearing on new advancements in wireless technology and the continued rollout of 5g. this is from the house energy and commerce subcommittee on communications and technology. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> good morning, everyone. to give our digital teams -- the subcommittee on communications and technology will now come to order. today, the subcommittee on communications and technology is holding a hearing entitled eiji and beyond, exploring the next wireless frontier. due to the covid-19 public health emergency, members can

participate in today's hearing either in person or remotely via online video conferencing. incc accordance with the updated guidance issued by the attending physician, member staff and members of the press present in hearing room are not required to wear a mask, although you can do so if you want. for members participating remotely your microphones will be set only mute for the purpose of eliminating inadvertent background noise. members participating remotely lanita unmute your microphone each time you wish to speak. please note that once you unmute your microphone, anything that is said in webex will be heard over the loudspeakers in the committee room, and subject to be heard by the live stream and c-span. since members are participating from different locations at today's hearing, all recognition of members such as for questions will be in the order of subcommittee seniority. documents for the record can be sent to joe orlando at the email

address we provided to staff. all documents will be entered into the record at the conclusion of the hearing. the chair now recognizes himself -- is that noise in the background? if someone doesn't have them self muted, please mute your microphones until you are recognized. the chair now recognizes himself for five minutes for an opening statement. welcome and thank you all for being here today. a special welcome to ouran witnesses, and i thank them for their contributions to this discussion.l i'm very glad to be holding this hearing on such an important issue. as the subcommittee with jurisdiction over spectrum, and federal and commercial spectrum management, i'm heartened the communications and technology subcommittee has shown such bipartisan leadership and interest on this issue. spectrum policy is not an issue on the top of average consumer'' minds, but plays a significant role in their everyday lives. the average u.s. household has 25 connected devices, smartphone penetration is above 80%, and

wireless device subscriptions outnumber the u.s. population. we use baby monitors and garage door openers; listen to the radio and watch tv using our mobile devices; and our factories, farms, and transportation systems are ever more connected, very often wirelessly. all of these uses are dependent on spectrum, and the american economy is dependent on spectrum. and as we push towards 100 percent broadband connectivity at home, spectrum will be necessary for customers regardless of whether they have a wired or fixed wireless connection.me it is our job, as members of this subcommittee, to make sure spectrum policy continues to enable these uses and opens new opportunities for the next-generation technologies and innovations. fundamentally, we need to use our nation's airwaves as efficiently as possible. with an eye on the exponentialal growth of wireless data usage,

we know more spectrum will need to be made available for consumer use. this means the federal government, which still holds a majority of this country's spectrum, needs to use its spectrum allocations more efficiently, recognize spectrum sharing as a viable opportunity, and work cooperatively with neighboring commercial spectrum users. for congress, we should recognize the spectrum demands of the federal government andd give agencies the tools they need in this process. with our commercial spectrum, we must achieve a balance of both licensed and unlicensed spectrum. it is important to make spectrum available to sustain the deployment of 5g and pave the way for 6g. at the same time, we need to identify spectrum for unlicensed use to sustain the explosive traffic we have seen in wi-fi, and fuel the next generation of wi-fi, wi-fi 7. i believe the lower 3 gigahertz

band presents an enormous opportunity for making additional consumer-oriented spectrum available. the spectrum innovation act strikes the right balance between federal incumbent user'' needs, and the importance of their missions and maximizinged spectrum for consumer use. with additional spectrum reallocated to the private sector, new opportunities will arise for additional uses in both licensed and unlicensed spectrum bands. i'd like to take this moment to thank ranking member latta and his staff for the work they have been doing with my team to find a bipartisan path forward for this bill. i'm looking forward to moving it with their support. another item that needs swift action by congress is the extension of the fcc's ability to conduct spectrum auctions. it would be a mistake for congress to let this authority lapse. in addition to how spectrum is used, we also must look at how these spectrum allocations decisions are made.

and it is imperative that we reevaluate our country's spectrum management policies. congress is taking steps, such as with the spectrum coordination act, and ntia and the fcc are acting as well, as their announcement on increased cooperation demonstrates. with ranking member latta, i recently laid out some principles that should help guide us. ntia must continue to be recognized throughout the federal government as the entity tasked with balancing the needsi and concerns of the federal government; clear rules and expectations for all spectrum users will lead to better outcomes; those rules and processes should be based on science and engineering; and lastly, that the federal government needs to speak with a clear, unified voice when making spectrum decisions. recommitting ourselves to these principles will lead to better management policies, and

ultimately better outcomes for both the federal and non-federal users of spectrum. while these are weedy topics, how we approach them will affect our constituents greatly and how our economy can function and grow. so i look forward to hearing the witnesses' expert testimony and the thoughts and concerns of my colleagues. and now thank you to our panelists and i am now using to my friend, ranking member latta, for his opening statement. ldingi also want to thank the witnesses for being with us today. it's great to look out and see your smiling faces, so it's wonderful to be in the same room together. we've pioneered innovative ways to reach one of the valuable resources, access to the airways. decisions on how best to utilize the airways and maximize the potential with wi-fi, multiple

generations of mobile technologies from 2g to 5g, the economy and so much more. the massive benefits of the technologies have have been truly transformational to the economy and way of life. the recent report estimates that unlicensed spectrum generates over $95 billion per year in the connected technology market. i am a cochair of the caucus and when wi-fi was created and no one could have predicted the impact it would have on the economy. to auction off the portion of the airways since then the fcc has held over 100 options for the airways to power everything from 3g to rail. in addition to the new way of harnessing the efficiency of the free market, the option authority has played a critical role in paving the way for new innovative services.

to invest tens of billions for the airways being interfered with. the last two options alone have netted over $100 billion in the u.s. treasury. however, as more and more of the spectrum is being used, it's become more complex. as new commercial uses are introduced, the possibility of those cases raising the potential for the harmful interference has put a spotlight on how they make such a decision. this is magnified when the agencies are using advantages for the commercial user. over the years we have seen challenges with how the agencies coordinate the plans for introducing the services and studying the potential for the harmful interference. as the energy and commerce committee continues to build on its work to improve the spectrum management process, we should be looking at how these decisions will build trust in the

engineering and certainty in the licensing process. with the authority to conduct an option and issue licenses it's important for the commerce committee to provide necessary direction to the fcc as they become more difficult. i want to thank my friend of the chair man for holding the hearing today and yield the remaining balance of my time to my good friend. >> thank the gentle man for yielding. when you look over the years, congress and especially this

subcommittee and the energy and commerce committee led the way bringing forth bipartisan process to assert the leadership in wireless innovations. one of those times we do come together to get some good things done and it starts right here in this room. under the leadership of the chair man with president trump they auctioned off several spectrum band for commercial use. with of the most recent option generating a record of more than $80 billion in revenue and by the way that $80.9 billion that was generated far exceeded the congressional budget office estimates of 20 to 35 billion, so they thought it would generate 20 to 35 billion and with the private sector stepping up and putting forth their own capital of $80 billion generated, we want to see that continue so it's critical the

nations spectrum management process work efficiently. for the authority action it is important to complete the pending options as well. for more opportunities to build out the networks and moving forward it's imperative and we also need to allow providers to alternate in the spectrum. so america can continue to lead the world while also heading off the threat posed by china to help address that as well so i look forward to hearing from the witnesses and thank you again and i will yield back the balance of my time. >> the chair now recognizes mr. prolong the chairman of the

full committee for five minutes for his opening statement. >> thank you. the committee has a long tradition of working together in a bipartisan fashion to lay the groundwork for technological innovation in the country and this hearing is no exception. today we begin exploring the next frontier of wireless technology and it's more important than ever that we lay the foundation for the nation to continue to lead and critical in criticaltechnological advanc. there's no question they are the engine that's power to so much technological growth and our family wouldn't have wireless emergency alerts, messaging services, the internet of things and of course drones so just imagine that for a moment of soo much of this technology we rely on every day simply would not exist. these are remarkable achievements but the past success doesn't always dictate the present or the future.

such as wi-fi seven. the states couldn't be hired to replenish the commercial spectrum pipeline risk the united states falling behind the counterparts across the globe including china and producing cutting-edge consumer innovation and enhancing the national security capabilities. and since transitioning the airways to allow for the new uses takes time we have to start to put the necessary pieces together so the u.s. can be ready for the wireless technologies of tomorrow. they've made as much for 5g compared to the united states. the spectrum develops the best of both worlds when it comes to wireless broadband, faster speeds, less buffering and access to the single and these are the airwaves that the advancements in telehealth

services and public safety, manufacturing and supply chain management. we must have the ability to place these on the hands of innovators who can put them to good use for the public's benefit. since 1994, the federal communications commission accomplished this to the spectrum option program and a truly remarkable and innovative unlicensed spectrum policy. the program has been a resounding success, raising 230 million since its inception and now the authority and must be extended or it will expire in about six months and without an extension it may not be able to complete at least one spectrum. to extend the authority once again we must do this before

they began the option of the 2.5 gigahertz. otherwise it will be disrupted and congress would also be able to put the proceeds to good use like promoting digital equity the replacement of suspect communications equipment. so we must also ensure the federal government speaks with its own place when it comes to the airwaves and that is why the chair man and the ranking member and the spectrum innovation act it will help to clarify how important the spectrum options are on the horizon should they operate to keep the process streamlined. instead of the head way to ensuring the agencies both announced the spectrum coordination initiative and reported to the house back in november and this initiative

will produce the strategy that i strongly support in creating this position in tia to meet the current and future spectrum demand of consumers and federal agencies alike as we explore the next wireless frontier and i welcome the panelists and look forward to hearing from them and i will yield back. >> the chair recognizes the ranking member of the full committee for five minutes for her opening statement. >> before i begin we heard from president zelenskyy, the strong courageous leader for the freedom loving people of ukraine. america must stand and support ukraine's call. of the attacks by ending his ability to use energy to fund this war by flipping the switch on for energy dominance in

america. it's the opportunity to lead and answer president zelenskyy's call to do more and i continue to urge us to do that. >> now to the topic of today the success of the nations wireless future depends on good management of the spectrum resources. the world leader in wireless technology, we lead in deploying and today our witnesses and our wireless carriers are working to make sure we lead in the generational technologies. i just claimed 180-foot tower with the commissioner and made the first call in eastern washington. 5g is going to be a game changer for the communities. to promote innovation and keep up with the demand for the wireless technologies. for the spectrum resource it will be essential to keep up with the demand of the devices.

for the spectrum available to the commercial use including over 3400 megahertz of licensed millimeters spectrum, 280 megahertz of licensed spectrum and an additional 100 megahertz of the viable made amanda spectrum in the 3450 to 3550 megahertz band. this brought over 100 billion. wireless carriers also work with federal incumbents and the gigahertz band known as a citizen broadband radio service it licenses while protecting the frequencies. it made 1200 megahertz available in the six gigahertz band and we are starting to see the next generation technologies developed to utilize the

spectrum. the certainty to both industry and government agencies for the spectrum reallocations and to ensure options such as the three dot 45 and two dot five band and aresuccessfully and able to be completed. and making sure costly fights like we've had between the fcc and faa and industry do not become the norm. without that certainty we can't expect the industry to invest the billions needed to clear the spectrum bands in the future. to maintain u.s. leadership in wireless technology we need a spectrum strategy that outlines the goals, objectives and actions that can be taken by federal agencies and industries to ensure the most efficient use of spectrum. even with a national strategy progressing it is becoming even more difficult.

it's crucial that the agencies and stakeholders work together. it doesn't keep pace with commercial technology. it's a difficult and many federal agencies have resorted to public fear mongering during recent high-profile spectrum disputes we have seen agencies such as the department of transportation attempt to assert its authority where the agencies do not hold licenses. to lead the world in the next communications we must have trust in the expertise and confidence in the process as we continue to push the pipeline. adversaries like china and russia try to undermine the

leadership and actively use the standard-setting institutions to set the standards. we must work together to enhance the participation by u.s. companies in setting international standards. leading legislation that requires to do just that and support during the candidacy to become the secretary-general of the international telecommunications union and they are running against a candidate from the russian federation given recent atrocities by russia it is essential that we stand behind and help keep the internet open and safe. i look forward to hearing from all the witnesses. >> the gentlewoman yields back into the chair would like to remind members pursuant to the rules all members have opening statements shall be made a part of the record. it gives me pleasure to

introduce the witnesses for the hearing starting with the director of government affairs, public knowledge, chief executive of the corporate strategy and analytics. the regulatory affairs ctia and mary brown, senior director of government affairs systems inc. you will have five minutes for your statements and the little box in front of you we have one minute left will turn yellow and then at the end of five minutes it will turn red and if you speak longer than that, a trapdoor opens under your chair and you are whisked down to the rayburn subway and out of here.

with that, i want to thank everyone and you are now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman, ranking member and member mcmorris rodgers. thank you for inviting us here to testify today. i'm the director of government affairs and public knowledge. dedicated to promoting freedom of expression and open internet and access to affordable communications and creative works. as members of the committee are aware we are in the midst of the conductivity resolution with more services, demand spectrum resources, proceed to satisfy the demand has become increasingly challenging. to meet the challenge we must first use all the tools in the toolbox to provide access to the licensed, unlicensed, open access sharing, second is the committee just recognized, we have to insist on expert

coordination led by the fcc and the end tia and third emphasize the public interest first and foremost in the spectrum policy. supporting the structural components will allow the policymakers to address the spectrum needs to secure opportunities for all americans and to maintain the collective global competitiveness. as the ranking members mcmorris rodgers noted the demand for the devices to meet that demand means that there are a few opportunities remaining. everyone has to work to enhance and policymakers need to focus on issues such as the spectrum utilization, incumbents and tightening of the technical parameters including receivers. in addition we need to use all the tools in the toolbox when it comes to access. back in 2009 and 2010 when i was honored to serve as counsel on the committee under then chairman waxman, representative doyle and a number of other folks on the committee made the

case that we do not need the policy between licensed and unlicensed but rather they were calling them for what we now know as the sound framing, and exit access regimes that promote spectrum efficiencies and a healthy, vibrant, wireless sector. ..

. >> rules. >> as this committee explores new spectrum opportunity we must ensure every allocation serves

the public interest with necessity but but this means moe than simply making it available for use in services. it includes ensuring the numbers of our society all members including rural communities low income communities and communities of color and get the benefits of the spectrum technologies as consumers and creators. simply put policy should serve the public interest. i want to spend time discussing access regime interagency coordination coordination and the need to focus on public interest because those elements are key to the next phase of exploring the frontier. in my written testimony by go over five opportunities in detail but to briefly mention them here in closing to advance the public interest congress should renew the fcc's auction authority and should support

public interest needs with those auction revenues for the committee should consider how auction revenues advanced public interest like individual equity something that was just recognize and public knowledge and other interest groups joining coalitions on her airways for equity campaign. it does mean dedicate awareness funding another public airways can't be set aside as well. sharing opportunities committee should look at the spectrum innovation act is a. opportunity to do that work and we look forward to working with you on this committee. we also hope this committee will encourage the fcc to think about opening up the 12 gigahertz band for a variety of reasons that protect the satellite opportunities but also allows for greater use of data so we can legalize out and buy me think this committee should support technologies and

advances in performing capabilities in remote sharing is hoping thank you for your consideration and i'd be pleased to answer any questions. >> i was just going to say your chair was looking lower as he were speaking. mr. todd you are recognized for five minutes. chairman dole republican leader latta members of the kennedy thank you for the opportunity to testify. and please represent hbc and served on this order of directors. htc is the nations largest telecommunications cooperative. our local subscribers we called them are members. for over 70 years htc has been a leading communications provider for coastal apps share. i'm excited about the role the wireless place in our future and the efforts to bring the latest communication service to our members. while the potential of wireless

services including 5g and beyond the key input needed to make that potentially reality is spectrum. it depends on sustainable a predictable access to spectrum to find that resource. congress can support efforts to ensure that all americans have access to the latest wireless services in three ways. first by extending the d.c. spectrum auction authority. second i bring the additional spectrum to the market for licensed commercial use and third making sure winning auction bidders can swiftly and efficiently with their special resources to use to serve consumers. htc was formed in 1952 and has over 700 employees working to provide the latest services for over 100,000 members. we support local economic development and community and educational programs and even

further htc returns excess revenues earned back to our members in the form of capitol credit. currently over $153 million today. we work hard to meet the needs and provide a high level of service to all of our members preserving a geographically and demographically diverse region that stretches from urban destinations to rural farming. during a pandemic we practiced -- and as a cooperative htc made efforts to make connectivity is part of her covid response is participating in the ebb program now the affordable connectivity program. appreciate the members of committee the committee for creating and maintaining this important connect to the to keep within reach for our communities. htc provides a full range of communication services to our members and balkan activities important tool in our portfolio

it depends on our villages to access special resources. wireless services are particularly important to reach a rural area especially when larger companies will not expand to provide service as well as more urban areas where larger companies have a broadcast. spectrum is needed to provide reliable wireless connectivity. it typically obtained through secondary market transactions. fcc actions allow for things like smaller license apps. this is critical for smaller companies like ours. we continue to bring the latest services to market. means no additional spectrum will be made available in ready me to make sure congress extends the fcc spectrum auction authority. this all makes racial availability and market aiming access to this spectrum would provide increased confidence in our ability to make defeat --

meet the future data needs of our subscribers and enhance our ability to compete. expansion of auction authority will ensure hbc has what they need to participate in the 2.5 gigahertz auction. we strongly encourage congress and the ftc to make a sufficient supply of spectrum to meet growing wireless demand. anyways that allows smaller carriers to meet. while the fcc should make additional spectrum available for it was use the interagency spectrum court-martial process should be improved. i think numbers of this committee for working to enhance and restore faith in the process including efforts to date the memorandum of understanding. in closing 5g and other next-generation wireless technology will rapidly expand connect to the date and improve many aspects of everyday life to

ensure networks can expand and meet the demands of the next wireless frontier with better access to spectrum. thank you and i welcome your questions. >> thank you mr. todd. the chair recognizes ms. stancavage for five minutes. >> members of the subcommittee thank you for inviting me today to provide a global perspective on spectrum policy to enable 5g next-generation wi-fi in six g.. i'm responsible for global policy efforts related to digital infrastructure including connectivity by g. wi-fi and 68 i, a.b. and i/o g.. including -- i've extensive experience working at the regional and global level in putting the world to radio communication conference. intel is one of three semiconductor manufacturers in the world.

intel products are foundational for personal cloud quantum and high-performance computing a v.'s and most importantly 5g and wi-fi. eiji runs on intel. we are leading provider for infrastructure and intel as a leader in bluetooth technology solutions. intel plays a role in developing wireless standard to enable infrastructure. with respect to spectrum pipeline considerations it's crucial to replenish the west pipeline for mobile broadband technologies to low mid-and high band in near-term and long-term deployment for consumers and a wide range of businesses. as ftc chairwoman recently stated for 6g would need to

start planning now to identify its lead from in the gigahertz range. 6g may be light bans of 95-acre hertz as well as low band. replenishing the spectrum pipeline requires not just deciding which bands that have been ensuring the timely results about of that study and commercial availability of the spectrum including bands for example such as the three gigahertz band. making decisions on spectrum is crucial to enabling your u.s. leadership role in wireless locally preferred sample the ftc's decision to open the six gigahertz spectrum for wi-fi has been transformative with over 60 countries following the u.s. lead. so what is a timely manner? it provides -- to provide perspective the itu targeted completion of 5g high band spectrum process in november of 2019. we enable commercialization the intel team completed our

internal analysis of the status of availability as well as technical characteristics for years prior to that in september of 2015. the fcc issued its first report in and order of making high band spectrum available over three years before the target date. over the next two years other leading countries also took steps on i've g. spectrum. as a result of the fcc's early action when the international treaty deliberations of occurred much of the u.s. high band spectrum was harmonized for use for mobile broadband to elegies at the worlds radio communication conference of 2019. for 6g the process is scheduled to be completed in 2030 and looking back at the previous timeline the question i have is do we think the u.s. is on track to make spectrum available for 6g diet around 2026.

unless we move rapidly now the u.s. will not be in a position to be a leadership role in defining the spectrum ranges will be utilized. moving onto the interagency cooperation and tia must be empowered to represent the federal agencies to ensure together with the fcc the nation spectrum resources are managed in the public -- additionally the spectrum auction authority will be important for continued u.s. broadband deployment efforts. finally despite the crucial nature of semi conductors underpinning all of this technology america's lost significant semiconductor production over the last 30 years with his cost disadvantage for chipmaking in the u.s.. federal investment urgently needed to reverse this erosion by leveling the playing field for america's semi conductors or congress to first step by authorizing the chips for

america after early last year and while intel is doing its part to invest in american technology leadership congress must finish the job by conferencing the bill to affect affect funding as soon as possible. this investment will foster capacity that underpins the deployment of 5g another digital infrastructure. thank you for holding this hearing on this important topic a with a roar to working with the committee by tc -- fcc and other federal agents to enter the spectrum pipeline continues to flow to support u.s. broadband for development and deployment. >> thank you very much. chairman doyle ranking member latta thank you for the opportunity to be with you. i am scott bergmann and i want thank to thank you for your focus on creating smart spectrum policy 5g in our country's future. in particular i commend the committee for its long-standing practice of identifying specific

dams for auction could for example the 2020 5g and the act of 2018. 5g wireless broadband works in transforming the way we live and work. 5g is helping to protect our climate. according to a recent study 5g will enable the 20% contribution towards the nations targets helping the country to meet her climate change goals. and 6g with the expanded capability in bridging the digital device in bringing bringing competitive choices to the home broadband market. of course every benefit we are experiencing with 5g in the u.s. and the digital inclusion job creation and improvement of public safety health care in our environment predicated on the availability of spectrum. the demand for fixed and mobile 5g service is increasing

exponentially to free up additional spectrum especially licensed amid van. chairman wars wessel -- in a recent announcement from the 2005 gigahertz auction is a welcome sight. after this auction spectrum pipeline goes empty. in the meantime nations understand global leadership in wireless depends on access to the spectrum. on average apartments etc. 50 megahertz of licensed broadband more than twice do we have in the u.s. today. but the right policies we can maintain our global wireless leadership. we offer to the committee today more recommendations for the global leader in wireless. the ftc -- fcc auction authority as is slated to expire in september and to ensure the licensed spectrum will deliver

5g to consumers and businesses auctions are proven to be the that rock of 5g and u.s. networks. since 1993 congress established our first in the world spectrum auction authority and never allow that authority to lapse. congress is granted broad option authority in the short-term one-year extension. this usage opportunity drax auctions in advance. we the congress to do the same. second it's in our national interest to identify his spectrum pipeline to the option for exclusive licensees. this band is adjacent to the existing full power spectrum offers the ability to provide large channels making it an ideal fit for 5g and congress can streamline this access. we support the spectrum innovation acts to enhance the process to bring back critical ban to off schenn.

congress should identify and set clear deadlines at the same time it expands auction authority. congress has long leverage congressionally directed spectrum including deficit reduction. we deferred to the committee held auction procedure be in welcome the opportunity to collaborate. chair one woman rosenworcel proposed -- and that's an important goal worthy of our support. such an approach would provide a much-needed list touring nations system in wireless leadership. third ctia supports a national spectrum strategy that can help lead the challenge and provide a guidepost for advancing u.s. 5g leadership. finally there is much we can do to revitalize spectrum

management for lowliest government spectrum process generally works well it broke down in debate. we commend the recent fcc spectrum court nation initiative as a nation we can must do better. thank you again for the opportunity to testify a net look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. thank you cherundolo ranking member latte and members of the subcommittee. many missouri brown hair provide you with systems views on the future of wireless. thank you for the notation. cisco systems symptoms systems is an ip-based networking equipment solutions and services located in san jose california customer base scans enterprise customers and service providers and wireless cisco offers wi-fi in private 5g solutions. spectrum is vital to all of our

customers. thanks to the leadership from congress the united states finds itself in the enviable position of being a technology leader in unlicensed and licensed technology. not only does this mean the u.s. consumers get the rest and get it first accompanies see the u.s. as a place where dance to elegies are developed and applied. it's a prime example of a technology that the benefited from congressional and fcc leadership in here are three reasons to prove it. no u.s. revenues for the sale of unlicensed devices are approaching $100 billion annually while the total economic value of wi-fi in the united states reaches as much as 1.6 trillion by 2025. the dollars are big at the number of devices are even larger for comcast reported last fall its customers are connect things nearly 1 billion devices on its network alone.

in the 2018 mobile mobile now act congress declared as a matter of federal policy the fcc must provide for unlicensed spectrum. in 2020 the fcc opened 1200 megahertz licensed spectrum in the six gigahertz bands paving the way for gigahertz generation of ip and broadband networks increase their speed whether 5g cable fiber or satellite so too must wi-fi. wi-fi is the most widely deployed spectrum technology and american business. 5g will soon become part of that enterprise and its cisco we are looking for to enabling a convergence of wi-fi and 5g for enterprise customers. for 16 telecommunications industry solutions and north american standards organization we will launch the next g alliance enabling the u.s. to develop a consensus position on what it hopes 6g will uniquely

accomplish. to the question of spectrum court nation and government agencies disagreement there is probably one unfortunate issue upon which we can all agree. we have not found that happy place in spectrum policy decision-making where collaboration rains over confrontation. on my written testimony i have several suggestion head here are two points that are most important. congress should make clear to ntia in the executive branch generally what it wants to ntia to be the lead in the agency on specter matters and second the recently revised memorandum of understanding in an important development that we should all celebrate underscoring the importance of agencies working together. on auction rasterization congress has maintained fcc auction authority when it was first adopted in 1993 and it should renew that authority this year as congress and the fcc continue to work on more spectrum for 5g and ultimately

6g rate many continued think auctions are simply of budget reconciliation tool. it's true over the decades $175 billion have been the bright of important public interest programs however thinking about auctions narrowly as a vehicle that to put cash in the federal legit atm misses the mark. far more important is the economic value measurable and hundreds of billions of dollars in contributions created by the networks as a result of auctions productions serve other important services. in 2012 congress authorized the worst incentive auction. this new form of auction provide a much-needed tool to the fcc as it began its work of transitioning spectrum allocations from 20th century technology to 21st century. ankle boots and renewing auction authority remains highly relevant. 5g and 6th g. networks to send

the authority itself is to transition efficiently from old allocations to new ones. ntia needs to be the lead agency on spectrum within the executive branch and policy should continue to enable the advance of unlicensed and licensed to elegy. thank you for the opportunity to testify a net look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. we have concluded opening statements. we are now going to move to member questions for each member will have five minutes to ask questions of our witnesses and i would ask all my colleagues to adhere to the five-minute rule unless you share my gavel. they'll start by recognizing myself for five minutes and try to set a good example. as we have heard from our witnesses today and is demonstrated by the strong demand for recent auctions advanced spectrum is vitally important for wireless connectivity.

spectrum innovation act seeks to maximize the amount of spectrum available for consumer use to the primate band spectrum. mr. guice is an advocate for spectrum usage can you discuss how you see the spectrum innovation act producing greater utilization of the band? >> it's a. question and the act itself sets up opportunities for sharing. as we learned in the cprs process if we engage with dod we engage with ntia and fcc can structure a path forward that will result in more spectrum coming on line for utilization and if we lock ourselves into a -- >> mr. bergmann to believe this legislation can provide consumers with greater access to 5g in greater wireless technologies? >> thank you for your focus on this legislation. absolutely.

5g is mid-and in the critical band. we appreciate your leadership in the spectrum innovation act to focus on having ntia and the fcc in the room to focus on licensed spectrum, to focus on the timeline for auction critical in moving and harmonizing this to the advance market. >> at spectrum increases in her airways become more crowded we are increasingly in confrontations between incumbents and new users including even new users in the neighboring spectrum bands. i'm glad to get the witnesses ran worst the importance of having federal government engage in a coordinated >> or management process. ms. brown you discuss your testimony how we manage the impact of new spectrum users on incumbent systems. could you expound on that and how that would shape the end-user experience? >> thank you for the question.

i think the way in which we have equipped their agencies to resolve new and adjacency is not lending itself to a successful resolution to this issue at this point. my observation around these issues that goes to see band and also transportation spectrum and elsewhere is that the decisions are often challenged by user communities who do not perceive there's a voice in the decision-making process that addresses their concerns. to be clear the user communities know a lot about their systems. they don't know a lot about spectrum sharing. we have seen them strike a confrontational pose albeit a collaborative one so any to think about new ways to push new dynamics into the process that helps build consensus. in my testimony suggested a couple of ways to explore. one is to put the ntia boulder

lab moore's front and center in the middle of these issues to help build engineering consensus. another might be to give the fcc the authority to conduct independent sharing research which is other regulators in other parts of the world do. the payout of course is enormous because by sharpening the tools that the regulators have and building consensus we can reduce the friction and get better use out of our airways which is a matter for them just because consumers it's a matter of competitiveness. >> much of today's discussion has been about domestic spectrum policy. what happens at the international level certainly can have a direct impact on what happens here at home. for this reason i'd like to take the opportunity to mention the upcoming leadership election at the one international telecommunications union. i want to second what ranking >> and what ranking members

rogers said, the u.s. has nominated a well-qualified candidate during martin and it's important that congress and the administration continue to advocate for her to be the next secretary-general of that body. with these important considerations in mind, and recognizing your experience within the international forums, i was hoping to hear from you how spectrum decisions here in the united states shape international communications and global policies and how that impacts american consumers and companies. could you please share your thoughts with us in 10 seconds? or i'm in a big trouble with my colleagues. [laughter]. >> it's absolutely crucial, mr. chairman. >> that's a great answer. and with that i yield back my time and recognize my good friend mr. latta for five minutes. >> i was waiting it see if your chair disappeared. thank you, mr. chairman.

you point out the testimony, for the grant for new permits and spectrum expires this year however, the fcc retains for the lower gigahertz band in the jobs act. as congress considers authority. what spectrum bands are in the pipeline and how should congress think expanding the fcc authority and make spectrum available for use? >> thank you for that question. two of most important things, auction authority and having a spectrum pipeline. in our 30 years it's never expired before. when congress does that we urge you to consider a spectrum pipeline, there are some really important candidates for us, all about the lower gigahertz band you mentioned is critical

and there's work that started on that now and congress with work to extend that band and internationally harmonized and large channels and others that are important, too, the seven gigahertz band and something that ntiaa looked at and urge this committee to look at. and the band used internationally would urge the committee to look there, too. and to talk to you all about low and high bands, too, but the focus is on spectrum, too. >> thank you. ms. brown, as you may know, i'm chair of the caucus, and unlicensed spectrum for our economy, new and emerging technology. recently the fcc made a limited amount for wi-fi use. would you speak how americans use licensed and unlicensed spectrum and what do you expect to see in terms of demand for licensed and unlicensed spectrum in the next 5 to 10 years? >> thank you for the question.

the demand for any wireless technology, whether it's wi-fi or 5g continues to rise. wi-fi today and unlicensed spectrum represents half of all internet traffic because we are consuming most wireless traffic when we're indoors, whether at work or at home. that's not to say that 5g is unimportant, it's vitally important and we're going to be using a lot more of it in the future. from a consumer perspective, what we are going to see, i think, is more of a convergence of the two eco systems going forward and one would be the 6-5g offerings already in the marketplace, where the traffic is hauled via 5g back to a station, but in the home, the connections to the actual devices are wi-fi.

so, more examples like that coming and more convergence and it's going to be to the benefit of the american consumer. >> thank you very much. >> mr. todd, hgc communications serve rural and urban environment with licensed spectrum. would you want it speak about how you identify your spectrum needs and what they actually mean for a rural provider like htc? >> thank you for the question. for htc, mid band spectrum means choice. it's critical for us for propagation and it's availability of markets, rural and urban areas, so consumers would lose out without access to this technology as the increase for broadband continues to grow and those needs occur across our service area. >> thank you. ms. stancavage, the u.s. may

not be in the lead in 6g. what would it take to stay in the top and what would happen if we're not in the lead in 6g. >> thank you for the question. i've been with intel for 20 years and we expected a good reception in ohio, but it's far exceeded that. so, many thanks for that on behalf of my colleagues. >> we appreciate it. >> so, in terms of 6g, it is really important. i describe, you know, the five year gap where we basically intercept with product development plans and so, when we look out to the 6g horizon, trying to complete that process internationally, by 2030, i don't see the urgency that i think we need to have to make sure that we are in a position. so, anything we can do to initiate those discussions and make sure they happen in a timely manner would make the u.s. really-well placed, to

make sure when those discussions happen globally, the u.s. positions are taken into account and we can coalesce those in our position. >> i'll yield back. >> thank you, the chairman recognizes the chairman of the full committee for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman doel dole. it should be for ideas, free speech and democracy. and russia and china are using them to track their people and spread disinformation and propaganda. and that's why the u.s. lead in these technologies so our public interest principles are at the center of my technological process. i want today ask, can you expand how we keep the public interest at the forefront of our policy? >> thank you, that's a public

interest, the drivers under our policy for for decades. focusing on ensuring that communities, low income communities, communities of color and others have the opportunity to get connected is important and ensuring that that technology is open is important so that we all have a right and an ability to speak on these networks. i think as we look forward to how we do that, making certain that we dress digital equity concerns as we review your opening statement, using revenues to response that is important and that doesn't have to compete with the other public interest needs i know and others on the committee are looking at. >> well, thank you. and then i wanted to ask, when it comes to air waves, coordination is the key. the fcc recent spectrum

coordination issues helps to improve things and we report legislation out of the committee requiring something similar last year. my question to you, why is spectrum coordination globally and how do we lead in this effort and having a national spectrum strategy in place help? >> thank you for the question. in terms of making sure that we're available and participating in those discussions, when you move into new spectrum bands, the components that you need to do that are not readily available so you need radios, you need filters, et cetera. and when you need those components, if the u.s. doesn't have bands to put forward and the manufacturers aren't aware of those, what ends up happening, other countries can go into the void and put other bands in higher priority. so, if the u.s. does want to be

a leader here, early action allows us even signaling ideas of which bands are under consideration. and starting that process, really is helpful for us to be able to identify those and make sure that that is happening at the international level as well. >> well, thank you. >> and then, miss brown, unlicensed use of our airways, offers enormous social and economic benefits and unlicensed airways help kids compete or complete i should say, their homework and advances in health care and other things. in addition a recently report found unlicense spectrum, over 79 billion a year in value. with these benefits in mind. what is the impact to consumers and innovators if the u.s. fails to free up for unlicensed use? >> great question, thank you for the question. let me elaborate a little bit on what my colleague,

ms. stancavage said. consumers when we can lead in product development. in the recent 6 gigahertz band, we were the first to adopt that unlanced band and we now have over 200 pieces of equipment that have been through the certification process ranging from television sets, access, laptops, smartphones et cetera, and all of that is happening here first. so we get the access to equipment and the innovation and the innovative new uses of unlicensed and as we move forward we're expecting to see a lot more deployment of augmented reality and virtual reality types of devices in that band, because we now have the room to spectrally support those types of technologies, so tremendously important, thank you. >> thank you, i yield back, mr. chairman.

>> gentleman yields back. the chair now recognizes the ranking member, mrs. rogers, for five minutes. >> new, mr. chairman. at our last-- this is beginning with mr. bergman, at our last hearing with nti administrator davidson i voiced my concerns with the f.a.a., circumventing the established spectrum management process and pressuring wireless carriers accepting more conditions on their licenses after the auction conclude. the agency to make spectrum management decisions that are in the public interest and with the necessary authority to work through these types of concerns. mr. bergman, how can we move forward from this incident and rebuild trust in the spectrum decision making process? >> thank you so much for the question, your focus on this issue is absolutely critical. i think from a nearly universal set of perspective. we can agree that it broke down

in the debate and that's unfortunate and we have the fcc, and ntia, and wireless carriers invest over 80 billion dollars to perfect the rights to use this spectrum and then had 11 or 13th hour objection to that, and that's a tremendous challenge and it undermines that auction authority and our spectrum framework for making that spectrum available. so i think that some of the things that we think about are improving coordination, that would applaud mr. davidson, chairwoman for their initiative. we think that's a very, very positive step. we're encouraged that coordination has improved and gotten much more engineering to engineering focused. it's really important that these be scienced based decisions, they're raised early and we plan for the concerns. and one thing that we think

about is the whole of government approach is so key that we don't just identify concerns, but we can plan for priorities. we know that 5g is a priority and we want to plan for that, and of course, this is all about making sure that we achieve the benefits of 5g. it's about the 1.5 trillion. the 4.5 million new jobs, that 5g plans to focus on the issue. >> and over the last several years, they've ensured communication networks and the networks are secure and to continue wireless industry. international spectrum can play an important role and encouraging and trusted vendors to align with our security interest and has historically been a leader in identifying what spectrum is coming down the pipeline, however, other countries like china seek to disrupt that leadership and

different, what can we do leadership internationally and our trusted allies and partners? >> thank you thank you for the question. i think we can do it and keep doing more of it. this hearing is a great example. we need as my colleagues have said, to identify spectrum pipeline, to continue to advance our spectrum allocations in support of our largest technology eco system, namely wi-fi and 5g and leading into 6g. and as a result of that, by taking action and building concensus here, we have enormous weight when we turn to face the international community. we've seen that in the unlicensed base with the 6 gigahertz decision the fcc made in 2020 where we had dozens and dozens of countries that are following the fcc's lead. so, moving quickly, being--

paying attention to it, and getting the work done, very important and we need to keep doing more of it. thank you. >> thank you. >> ms. stancavage, one frt successes of the trump administration was bringing in to establish america's mid band initiative teams. how does the u.s. compare to its international counterparts in the terms of spectrum availability and what areas of spectrum policy should we be thinking about domestically to better position the united states at the international level? >> thank you for the question. i would characterize it as there's different amounts and different use cases and that's happening, it sort of started in some of the leading markets and countries that wanted to make sure they were playing leadership roles. moving forward and the u.s. was the very first in terms of the high band spectrum that we made

available. we then saw the international community at the radio conference come together on which bands were going to be targeted globally and used and following the u.s. lead so we're expecting to see a lot more 5g deployments in countries that have not made them to date. when we look at the bigger picture. we also have to see what continues. 5g is not a point in time. so the standard was created in 3g pp that will continue to involve as we move towards 60 and as that happened, we want to make sure that we have spectrum available in the near term. so domestically we should be thinking what can we put into the spectrum pipeline for the near term and also be looking over the longer term for 6g. how are we going to make sure to identify which pieces of spectrum may be available in the u.s. and which once would

he want at the international markets. near term, making sure we have the pipeline. >> thank you, i've gone over, thank you. >> gentle lady yields back, the chair recognizes mr. mcnerney for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman. this is for me personally, i'm glad you held it. thanks the witnesses, ranking member latta and i co-chaired the wi-fi caucus and i've long advocated on the international spectrum strategy. >> how do we ensure that it's not overlooked as a commercial interest push for more spectrum availability? >> thank you for the question. the main way to do it is to recognize the way to effectuate our spectrum policy is to make a variety of access to regimes available as we look at spectrum bands. as has been noted here, you

know, the 7 gigahertz band, that's a great opportunity to expand on our unlicensed work and to operate that lower 125 megahertz could represent advance not only wi-fi 6, but help us evolve into wi-fi 7. and keeping that mix of regimes available is what is going to be critical. >> thank you, you observed that using artificial intelligence in the network fabric was identified with the alliance and solutions and this question goes to ms. brown, i'm sorry, that using ai has been identified as the alliance of telecommunications industry solution as the goal for technology. how does that availability of the licensed and unlicensed spectrum affect the united states ability to compete with other nations and ai? >> thank you for the question.

the-- it is widely expected that ai will be used in 6g networks to a far greater extent than today. it's already used in networks today, but to a far greater extent. and i think that by leading in 6g, both in terms of the division and ute cases are and how that impacts spectrum allocations and paying attention to those and getting that work done in a prompt way, is going to ensure that u.s. innovation will be first in these new 6g networks it come. so, this is another sort of benefit of paying attention to the spectrum allocation process and getting that work done as quickly as possible. thank you. >> well, thank you. ms. stancavage, can spectrum be

used for data efficiency. >> i think most of the ai is to increase network performance, to make sure that the network is operating as well as it can be and to continue to improve it. as you move toward edge computing and the compute closer to the end user, we will see increased ai applications and allowing the benefits of the connectivity with the compute and ai to really maximize the overall benefits. >> what are some of the world problems in building the next generation of wireless networks, that ai can help address? >> i think mostly it's going to be on the network performance in the near term, but i would not underscore what the applications will enable, when

you can look at ai being able to, for instance, look at machine welds on a factory floor, to make sure that the weld has been done correctly, in a way that no person could see the images, so it's the end user applications, that ai will encourage when you combine with the connectivity. but for the near term, i think it's network performance and enhancing overall performance. >> thank you, that's a viewpoint i hadn't thought of looking at welds in parts in effect. and mr. bergman, you discussed how the united states should have the spectrum pipeline and china with the 4 gigahertz band. how will american consumers and businesses be effected if others innovate the spectrum offerings while the u.s. lags?

>> thank you so much for the question. spectrum is the key to 5g. it provides the capacity that we need for new expanded capabilities, higher capacity, lower latency and what that enables is a variety of berths, it enables us to address concerns about the digital divide, with new services like 5g for home. it enables us to address our nation's climate change goals as we start to integrate 5g into the some of the highest emitting sectors in our economy. it enables us to be the home for innovation by bringing topics like you were raising, a i, or those into the u.s. and that's why it's critical that we have mid band spectrum to enable that growth. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >> i'll yield back. >> the chair now recognizes mr. guthrey for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chair, i

appreciate the recognition and appreciate everybody being here today. as you know, we're pushing against the september 30th deadline and i'm the co-chair with ms. matsui of the spectrum caucus and i believe that making spectrum to users is critical especially as 5g and wireless technologies are deployed in the united states. my first question, how has making more spectrum available for commercial use bolstered our efforts to close the digital divide? >> thank you for the question. as a cooperative, focused on serving all of our members equally and providing equal access to service. broadband expansion has allowed to expand in the markets where larger may not have made broadband available. we've been able to see firsthand how bridging the digital divide can affect and improve opportunities in rural

communities. we've seen examples of hot spot performance in community centers and to be able to allow households without access, access to broadband to come together to be able to connect. for us, it's about the availability of the spectrum to make sure that as we continue to expand out, that folks have access as soon as they can to broadband. >> we, some coop oops in our area are trying to look at areas underserved as well. is your focus mostly on areas that are underserved by others, the population served by people who have the ability to go in and recover their investment? are you focused on areas that aren't necessarily able to recover investment? >> yes, sir, our expansion has been in areas we we've been able to cover investment. we've participated in different programs, whether it be state, federal funding programs to have access to grants, to expand into those areas and

that those vehicles have been very beneficial for us. >> okay, thanks, that's good to know. thank you. and then ms. brown. ms. matsui and i have been working on spectrum authority beyond the 3 gigahertz band and we're doing our due diligence to determine what may be right for auction, and so my question, what are the berths for congress preserving its authority to direct the fcc to conduct certain auctions? >> the congress has played a leadership role for 30 years in identifying spectrum bands and providing direction to the fcc about what should happen next and that's an invaluable policy direction that really helps drive concensus across the fc c & n tia and other agencies.

i can't stress enough how important it is for you all to help the spectrum community direct the fcc on this important auction program. we have not had, for a long time, auction authority without some direction in terms of what spectrum should be up next, and i encourage you to do that again this year. >> okay, thank you. thank you. appreciate that, mr. bergman, i agree with you about the importance of making spectrum available for exclusive use, particularly the mid band spectrum. one of the earlier auctions was cbrs auction which as you know granted priority, access license to users around the department of defense and the 3.45 gigahertz auction that granted flexible use licenses. spectrum coordination is key for successful operation

sharing regimes. i've introduced the smart spectrum act that requires an incumbent capabilities system for share between federal and nonfederal users. and what are some lessons learned from the previous cautions like cbrs and 3.45 gigahertz that we need to take into effect. >> thank you, congressman guthrey. it's important that we be thinking about all tools that we have available to us to make more spectrum available and so we appreciate the focus there. i think for us, when we think about spectrum access, it's about certainty. our companies have made investments of about $30 billion per year in licensed access spectrum and having that certainty is absolutely critical. so, you know, when we look at different spectrum sharing arrangements, one of the challenges of the cbrs frame

work is the complexity, you know, it's more complex than the other country has deployed in that sort of critical area. and we think about things like the power levels that can be used. so, you know, for us, i think the market tells the story. if you look at the cpr s auction in comparison to the c-band auction above it or 3.45 band right below it, you see that the market valued that greater certainty that you had with exclusive use spectrum and, you know, to a value of about 4-1. you know, when you adjust for the amount of spectrum, and the reason is-- >> i think my time expired and he was about to gavel me so i'll go, i heard him. >> thank you, mr. guthrey. before we go to the next question, i want to recognize a former chairman that just walked into the room. joe barton from the great state of texas and more importantly, the manager of the congressman

baseball team. joe, good to see you. that's why i love you so much. joe. [laughter]. glad to have you here, mr. chairman. [inaudible] >> thank you. miss clark, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and i thank our ranking member for convening this important hearing and thank you to our witnesses for their testimony and for joining us today. greetings to everyone. as the covid-19 pandemic has laid bare, the need for connectivity in urban and rural areas is critical for underserved and marginalized, for resources like education, remote learning, employment, remote work, health care services, telehealth and as well as narrowing the digital divide.

many in these communities use mobile devices to participate in on-line activities such as virtual learning, which often requires high speed network connections that aren't always accessible and/or available. my first question is for mr. giese, mr. giese, you've noted that a primary focus for public need is to fulfill the growing demand for spectrum resources. when competing ideas for public interest are at play, how can we ensure that spectrum policy decisions made in the public interest do not further entrench inequitable access to for historic communities? >> thank you for the question, i know we've worked together on a number of efforts to ensure that these communities get served. it's critical. it's critical that we focus our policies on ensuring that we don't leave folks behind that

we know traditionally get left behind. so to advance those initiatives. we've suggested digital literacy as one way to reach those communities, making certain that they have the skills and the tools necessary to get that access. we're looking at the money that congress has put forward on a biden basement to drive investment into the lower income communities in our rural and urban areas as a way to address that. and we're also looking at the authorities that the fcc gave-- that congress gave the fcc on bipartisan basis to look at past digital discrimination to make sure that we bridge the gaps. >> quick question, how do we make an effort as often times we do the one shot deals and you know, it wanes over time and these communities have been systematically discriminated against. how do we create within the

dynamic before us a maintenance of effort? >> that's a great question as well. you know, we've-- in one context we have a universal service program that provides funding. in this context, we should look at auction revenues, this is a source of funding, where we could endow a foundation with some of the revenues, a portion of it, and say to them, here is your mission, make certain that these communities needs are addressed, make certain that we focus the efforts so we'd love to work with your office on trying to bridge that. >> absolutely, as a follow-up in your testimony, you explain that the revenue generator could support the needs. that being said, should we be looking at how we might-- spectrum reallocations and auctions themselves be constructed to promote digital influence for served and underserved communities?

>> yes, absolutely. that is the game here, right? we need to make certain that we're getting everybody, all americans connected and figuring out tools to help them is critical. >> thank you. as the world goes wireless, and spectrum continue to increase lappedly, in recent years, the u.s. has made enormous progress allocated for licensed and unlicensed use. >> ms. brown you said that the united states found itself inenviable leader in licensed and unlicensed technology. as we replenish spectrum band. what consideration should policies-- recognizing this, what policy should policy makers take into account when evaluating the

best uses for the spectrum band? >> well, the short answer to the question is yes we should. i would point pie by way of example to the fcc's licensing program which allows operators to continually upgrade and change out the technology that they're using in the license spectrum that they have. that's a huge advantage that the united states has globally. not all regulators do it and we should encourage it. >> the gentle lady's time expired. >> i yield back. >> the chair now recognizes mr. kensinger for five minutes. >> thank you, i appreciate it and wish i could be there soon and i think we can all agree, as stated the united states has the invested interest in being the leader in 5g tech and service and it's safe to say that the coordination of spectrum policy which is

absolutely vital to lead in 5g and et cetera has been subpar. don't get me wrong, government for allowing for use of commercial spectrum, but in the past five or six years alone we've seen disputes in our governmental and industry, and government to industry disputes which hamper efforts and they've been embarrassing, frankly. how can the u.s. be expected to lead when it has to grapple with turf wars in government and scar mongering in certain industries. and reauthorize spectrum and remove unnecessary obstacles to spectrum, organization and efficiency? >> first question, mr. bergmann, with the demand for spectrum reaching all-time highs, what does congress need to do to help direct more spectrum to 5g and 6g and what are the needs for the industry

going to look like for 6g? >> thank you so much for the question, congressman. i think i can answer both of your questions with one answer, which is to say, the key is for this committee to focus on extending the sec's auction authority with pa define set of spectrum bands. that's what's critical for advancing 5g and it's critical for addressing the coordination issues that you referenced. i mentioned earlier fcc and-- our regulators experts. and this committee is our nation's spectrum experts, too. we need the committee to need in defining the auctions and helping to reduce back end problems of coordination we've seen more recently.

>>. >> adam, are you still with us? there he is. no. adam, are you able to hear us? the wonders of modern technology. you know what? i'm going to recognize-- >> yield back, i'll yield back. >> adam, are you there? >> yeah. >> if you can hear me, i yield back. >> oh, okay. the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes for five minutes. >> mr. chairman, thank you very much. as many of you know, i'd just like the rest of the country, the dallas fort worth area is

experiencing a huge growth in technology companies and we want to make sure that we are collectively working together to ensure that low income communities and communities of color across the metro plex as we like to call it can benefit from some of the economic opportunities made possible at least for the next wireless frontier and that brings me to the next question for mr. giese. can you elaborate how using a mix of access regimes, approach and exploring spectrum benefits low income communities and communities of color as technology emerges? >> thank you for the question. congressman. >> a mix of access regime, what it does it ensures that entrepreneurs, minority businesses have the opportunity to explore getting access to spectrum and spectrum technologies on unlicensed

networks without a huge upfront on payment acquisitions, it creates those opportunities. in addition the fcc has a policy given to can by this congress under section 309 that it should structure its auctions in a way that encourages minority and women-owned businesses to participate. as the sec looks at structuring auctions, we look at the design of the auction, particular will i in terms of spectrum service areas may hinder that opportunity for women and minority-owned businesses. we've got to push them and we hope you'll push them, but it's the mix of access that entrepreneurs and innovators, in the unlanced base can obtain market without having to go through the sector acquisition costs and then those minority and women-owned businesses that can't pursue opportunities in spectrum, the fcc should structure to encourage that participation. >> what can congress do to help

prioritize that to make sure everyone who wants and needs to be connected has equal access to the next generation of technology? >> well, you know, congress took a substantial step to bring connectivity to the communities. they need to be rig lus ensuring that they're pursuing the opportunities where there are urban and rural divides that need to be bridged. this is a once in a generation investment and we're certainly encouraging them to make certain that through the mapping and other efforts, they are targeting these communities with those investments. >> miss stancavage. i wanted to ask you a question. as industries and governments work together in the u.s. to secure the next generation of deployment, we should be very

intentional about advocating in the public and recreating a robust work force pipeline. i wanted to ask you about intel and what initiatives has intel taken to not on communicate about 5g and cutting edge technology, but also to recruit high school students and college students of diverse backgrounds to join the technology work force. >> thank you very much for the question, congressman. >> intel takes work force very seriously and we have a variety of programs in ohio, for instance, we are as part of this doing work force development as part of our ohio rollout. in addition one of my colleagues is very active in, and programed with ai, where we are making sure that ai for use

is really explaining the technology and helping. we also have programs at the community college level that we used and i believe the first lady biden was just at one of the sites to look at that as well in arizona to see what we're doing in that respect as well. we have for college students and younger students and what we're doing with work force because we see it's critical to make sure we're prepared now and over the longer term. >> thank you very much. and with that, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back, i now yield five minutes to my fellow suffering pittsburgh pirate fan and friend, gus bill-- and we have the number three farm system in baseball and no question, it's a bright future. i guarantee it, mr. chairman. okay. in 2019, ctia unveiled the idea

of a national five-year spectrum plan. at that time i said that this was a good idea to ensure a unified strategy among all agents and federal partners to understand and achieve a defined goal. since then, there have been well-publicized incidents that prove that federal agencies are not on the same page when it comes to spectrum strategy, unfortunately, and in some ways this disharmony is an embarrassment for a functioning government. in my research i found that the country of australia has maintained a five-year spectrum plan at least through 2017. their plan is publicly updated bi annually with their successes, failures, and status reports which are then rolled into an updated five-year plan. the question is for mr. bergmann. what would you say is the

status of a unified american spectrum strategy? what a minimum-- what a minimum, at minimum should be included. a u.s. strategy on spectrum and should we use australia's spectrum plan as a model? >> thank you, congressman. >> sure. >> you know, your description of the focus on spectrum auctions and spectrum planning is critical and i think that's definitely something that we can benefit from and incorporate here, a national spectrum strategy is it a key way to do that, we can plan for auctions to have that pipeline of spectrum bands and you can make sure that you're taking your most highly valued assets and i talked about mid band spectrum, when we talk about that, we see that government is overweighted and dod has access to two-thirds of the key mid band spectrum and we look at allegations between licensed

and unlicensed and have today about 1900 megahertz for unlicensed, and you're anywhere between 270 or 450 today for licensed spectrum in the mid range. so we think it's important that you make important decisions so we have enough of the assets coming to market and i would encourage this committee, as our spectrum experts, you all can help with that spectrum pipeline when you guys consider the fcc's auction authority and provide some that have that direction, too. >> one issue, i've been pounding the desk on and i'm not going to pound the desk, but getting the ntia and the fcc to update the memorandum of understanding on spectrum coordination. this committee unanimously passed a bill, the spectrum coordination act which would do that and i appreciate it, mr. chairman, you putting that on the agenda. i'd love to see it get on the

floor of the house of representatives as soon as possible. prior to our last hearing, these two agencies put pout a press release that they would be working to update the mou on their own. mr. bergmann again, have we heard anything beyond the press release on the status of this update? for instance, do we have a timeline for an updated agreement? do we know what they're seeking to address to make this process better and as a follow-up, again, we all know intimately, the problems surrounding federal agencies with the last spectrum office and license. so, let's go ahead and get na response from you first, please. >> thank you so much. you're absolutely right to focus on coordinations between agencies, we want ntia and fcc to be and we appreciate your efforts to move this mou

forward. do you think it's critical that all agencies appreciate and recognize the goals that you talked about with the national spectrum strategy so that we have both ntia and the fcc leading and the other agencies thinking about how do we support those goals? do we identify those early? we can plan for them. >> thank you, so is there a better way to incorporate agencies with shared spectrum or adjacent spectrum in the pre-auction process to avoid these blunders without being too burdened? >> what do you think? >> i think we do have existing processes through sort of intergovernmental coordination and the key to the processes broke down in the instance of the c-band. we need to have a recommitment to those coordination policies so those concerns are addressed early. and what's at stake is how quickly can we bring 5g to

market. how quickly can we bring 5g home to bear for the digital divide or connecting rural areas, how do we push innovation faster in the u.s. i think it's critical that we get that c-band spectrum on in july and would encourage this committee through your oversight role to make sure they're getting the feedback in as quickly as possible. i yield back. >> the gentleman's time is expired. the chair now recognizes mr. mckeach chum for five years. >> thank you for convening today's hearings. just i'd like to start off with you, mr. guice. when we did development of wire broadband services in rural communities, we found it was critical to ensure we into what areas are served and what areas are not and that's why i was privileged to help with the passage of the broadband data act last congress, which attempted to help improve how

we collect data for wire line providers for our broadband maps. but as you know, it's a little trickier with wireless providers. how do we make sure that we have accurate maps, which wireless providers serve which areas and why is it important to get it right? >> thank you congressman for the question and thank you for your leadership on trying to secure support for devices so that we can get folks in our low income communities. the map question is a good question. when we talk about wireless mapping, it's more difficult than a wire line map. unfortunately, too often our have relied on the theoretical propagation, leaving them as served and unserved. as we roll out that technology that relies on, it's going to

be critical that we that information right, because the opportunities to miss communities in our urban sectors, as well as communities in our rural sector are just vastly increased. so, you know, let's take a look at the actual technical opportunities, but also, let's make certain that the crowd sourcing of data that we present as an opportunity, is available to consumers as well. so it can't be use a state-led effort. it can't be use a professional effort. we need true crowd sourcing, because the opportunities for these technologies to miss communities are pretty great. >> thank you, for that. mr. bergmann. i'd like to talk to you about the so-called last mile, if we can. where do things stand in terms of fixed wireless as a last option for rural communities. how do we ensure that the spectrum remains available as

we move forward with auctions? >> thank you so much, congressman, for the question. as we think about trying to meet our biggest challenges, like connecting 100% of the population, which is absolute right goal for this committee. i think that mobile wireless is particularly well suited to make those connections and so we'd applaud the committee for focus on technological neutrally and the programs that you've adopted and we've seen with success of things like the emergency broadband benefit and connectivity program two out of every three consumers choosing wireless and we're excited as we think of 6 wireless for home broadband and see already our nation regional providers connecting tens of millions of homes already and with the right spectrum. they have plans to connect together over 200 million homes. we know that this can be a

critical part of the equation, because it can be deployed quickly in many cases can be deployed more affordably, and it's going to bring choice to the home broadband market so we're very, very excited about 5g home for wireless and appreciate this committee's focus on making sure that we've got the right spectrum to do that. >> thank you, sir. i thank the witnesses, mr. chairman. i'm going to give awe whole minute back. i yield back. >> thank you. chair now recognizes my good friend, bill johnson. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as chairman of the 5g i'm looking at this so 5g can be swiftly deployed. i'm pleased that they announce the fcc plans to start an auction for the 2.5 gigahertz

band in july and more available for 5g expansion especially in rural parts of the country. unfortunately, the fcc's auction north is set to expire on september 30th. something has, like that has never happened ins is -- since the fcc in the mid '90s. please walk us through how this looming expiration might impact the operation of smaller carriers? >> thank you for the question. from a small carrier perspective, not continuing auction authority, would hinder our operation because we don't have the resources that larger regional, national providers have. >> okay. mr. bergmann, recently a technical disagreement in the c-band spectrum made national news. we all heard about it. as spectrum repurposing is becoming more difficult we need

to ensure our spectrum licensing system provides certainty to encourage investment in wireless technology and we need to ensure that federal agencies are communicating, collaborating, and fully cooperating to ensure safety issues are addressed without disrupting the auction process. the c-band spectrum that was auctioned is a nonfederal band. can you explain how the f.a.a. inserted itself into the process and whether they had a formal role in the reallocation process? >> thank you very much for that question, and the focus on the issue. you know, i think we can agree that the process broke down in the c-band altimeter discussions and caused unnecessary friction, and we saw how the rest of the world uses that band safely and has both 5g and safe flights, so, i think that it's absolutely critical that we learn from

this lesson. when we have companies that are willing to invest tens of billions of dollars to solve the digital divide, to bring jobs, it's absolutely critical that that process happen smoothly and i think the keys are, as you say, making sure there's early agency input. the fc c & n ti do have a process where they share proposed decisions and circulate those. i think the challenge here is that some of those aviation-- some of that aviation equipment listens outside of its band. in the 5g world, we stay in our lane and we're focused in providing that in our lane and when i think about early planning, i think about not planning, but more efficient with the spectrum. >> back to the operative words,

cooperate, communicate, collaborate across agencies to make sure to address these questions upfront. mr. bergmann, continuing with you, fcc was established by congress to be the authoritative technical expert on spectrum matters while the f.a.a. stakeholder didn't like the outcome of that. what about the trust, raising concerns after the auction. once concerns were addressed by the so-called expert agencies. how can the american people trust what we're doing if we miss something this big? >> i absolutely agree with you. i think we saw unnecessary friction in the aviation industry for consumers and certainly in the wireless world as well, too. we know that every six month delay in 5g costs us $25

billion in what we hope to achieve with it. it's critical to solve these going forward. you bet. bun last question, mr. bergmann, one of the biggest auctions they've conducted is the auction of the c-band spectrum, the first megahertz, the remaining 180 megahertz of the spectrum will be made-- and as congress decides how to extend licenses, what would be your impact if the fcc is unable to complete processing the phase 2 licenses? >> absolutely. well, it's absolutely critical that we bring spectrum, first see it in july and critical that we move forward with phase two as well. that's key to the berths that you bring to us. >> so you're aware of it. >> the gentleman's time expired and chair now recognizes mr. soto for five minutes.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. in central florida and throughout the nation, americans rely on spectrum for of is service internet, and that's why i was excited about the 5g rollout. we know there had to be between cellular and aviation and those will continue to be resolved. it's key that we work together through cellular, aviation and other areas as we go forward on c-band concerns around for about four years, especially representing central florida, a tourism capital, with so much air traffic. we happen to be able to do this because we work together, right and public-private partnerships, as well as private industries. and we open up for spectrum for auction, which is why we're

here today, make sure to why it's key to extend the fcc authority set to expire september 30th of this year. and what's at stake, particularly mid band spectrum, which is good-- has good signal ranger is better indoors, helps with increased capacity and faster speeds and latency so many things that are key to make sure we have that crisp cell phone connection. ... march towards 6g and of those that are just catching up with 5g, artificial intelligence, virtual-reality, machine learning and other technological advances. it's critical to these for the economy, healthc critical to these for our economy, healthcare, national security, finance, entertainment, so many other issues. i'm glad it was brought up about the america competes act and the chips act included because all this is together without the supplies for t cell phones and

some of the technological advances we won't beic able to t this t happen. i'm hopeful like with the infrastructure law and take the with the recent budget that this committee and congress will come together to pass the america competes act with chips act funding. where excited to make microchips in florida and we're going to keep going forward on that. i'm also concerned about commercial spaceflight and streamlining telecommunications with regard to our rockets that go up, , literally every week multiple times a week by spacex, blue origin and, of course, by nasa that something will look forward to longer discussion ona in the future. but for now we know it's critical for sec and ntia to work together to develop positions on international spectrum issues. one, to help achieve global harmonization come to make to make sure when the best position to capitalize on what the next generation of wireless technology has to offer and

three, to ensure timely commercialization of products for the u.s. market. ms. stancavage, why is it important to u.s. economic and security interests to play leadership a leadership role in engaging the international community and spectrum policy? >> thank you for the question, congressman soto. it is absolutely critical, as i described, we have to be early in the process to make sure that we have the component around it so that were able to intercept the product and investment cycle to make sure that there is time access. and that's true for licensed and unlicensed technologyy europe when the u.s. does act quickly what you see is bands that the u.s. selects, we do have the equipment to support those and we were able to provide that equipment, and then we are able to capitalize on the economy's of scale when other countries do as well. so rather waiting at the back of the queue we are at the front of the queue and then went able to

make sure we have the equipment and we have haven't any mot effective manner. >> liken some issues it's critical for america to lead and appreciate that. mr. bergmann, much of the mid-spectrum is occupied by federal government agencies. this is a sensitive area where we have to have careful balance. do you have any recommendations how to determine what spectrum of a government needs and what can be reallocated? >> absolutely. thank you for the question. you're absolutely right the federal government is overweighted in the portfolio. there are important missions there. they key is to findd ways to be more efficient in the spectrum that we use. in thehe commercial wireless industry with a strong incentive to constantly have new generations of technology that are more efficient especially when we've increase our spectrum efficiency by 42 42 times ine last ten years. we need to find a way to make them more efficient so they can do the important missions and we can reallocate spectrum to

commercial use. >> the time of theer gentleman s expired. i the chair recognizes mr. longe for five minutes. >> all right folks, everybody gather around here. about to begin thehe a beautiful day for auction. you all knowal it never rains oa daily long auction. there's always a a cool breeze t about 40 degrees. happy today we have here today selling the 2.5 gigahertz band and we've had your credit reproved and everything so everyone is free to bid at will. 25 billion, 15, ten, $10 billion. 2.5 -- come on now. all right. eleven, 12, 13, 14.5, sold at 13 billion to the chairman. if you will pay your bill out at

the door that would be greatly appreciated. and folks, i have a or had a 31 year credit. everyone is free to bid. it benefits the american taxpayer and the federal government infected has the potential to raise significant funds as you just witnessed to the u.s. treasury and to the congressional priorities such as rural broadband deployment in places like my district in southwest missouri. it's important for the authority to be extended with language requiring some even for short-term. switching gears i would like to ask you the fcc is required for

spectrum within the next seven years as they look to potentially relocate the systems or to find a technical solution. what is the viability and divisibility with the respective assignments and how they are used. one of the things the innovation act does well it gives a timeline to make up their mind but also flexibility in the

decision-making depending on what they find in the band and whether it can be used, changed, modified, whether it needs to stay put. so, i think the congress is on the right track. >> and i will go next under the ten year, the fcc started the spectrum horizon proceeding to seek comment how to unleash above 95 gigahertz. how do you envision the frequencies being used and how do they look at the possible uses for the spectrum? also for the massive machine,

those extra capabilities are enabling businesses to get the same types of benefits, and now as we move into 6g there is research and development going on for some of those that would require very, very large bandwidth of the very short range which would be consistent with those bands for things like positioning, very high accuracy positioning and sensor uses. so you want to take advantage of the capability that the technology brings and what it is able to be deployed. so, there is a definite interest in a lot of different research areas. >> and i just want to make a note that. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> i'm going to need an installment plan. [laughter]

i want to recognize while making more spectrum available is important for american leadership in 5g deployment, it is also critical for closing the digital divide in rural america. the spectrum decisions made, and i hope we get this done by september to closing the digital

divide and making sure the schools, hospitals and businesses are not left behind. the spectrum options like the most recent 2.5 gigahertz, the fcc creates a tribal player ready window to the spectrum to be reallocated to ensure eligible federally recognized tribal governments as well as tribal communications providers are able to connect the communities. this presented a landmark opportunity for the nations to gain access to spectrum to better serve their communities.

can you discuss what else congress should be considering to make sure the communities can get the best services possible? >> thank you, congressman for the question and it was an honor to serve how difficult the challenge of bridging the divide in the tribal communities. what congress can do is what you did. promote the opportunity for tribal windows with the spectrum becomes available. make certain there is sufficient time for the communities to apply so we appreciate your leadership on that. but as congress looks at spectrum opportunities, it needs to recognize the sovereignty of the nations and that sovereignty means that they should have some input into the destiny of the

wireless spectrum that runs over the lands. that is what the tribal window created and as we move forward on the spectrum bands we think that is a good policy to look through. looking at the credits and how to reform those to better utilize them as well as this aggregation of the spectrum license areas so the tribal communities can build the networks on their land is where a provider has the area but not to the will to build. so, i look forward to working with your office on these issues and public knowledge is an advocate for the tribal communities to make certain that they have affordable access because as you know, they are some of the least served communities in the country. >> thank you very much. in the collection for the video service more than 200 bidders, one over 20,000 licenses including many entities like wireless internet service

providers. why so many were able to win, what lessons can we learn from it and how can we ensure they are able to meaningfully produce and participate in the future options? >> thank you for the question. so, as a small provider, having access to this is critical to the providers to be able to participate. as i mentioned earlier as a small provider we have limited resources. we don't have the resources to provide in the options on a larger scale as well as the sizes of spectrum. so, for us, having the usable spectrum that's available that has the equipment that we can roll out recognizing mr. carter.

relying on the work so many other things i was reading a book the other day that said the average was five hours a day more during the pandemic than they were before. it's unbelievable to me that that is true that we are on the internet so much but what i wanted to ask you is it plays a crucial role and under the last administration they made an

unprecedented amount available for commercial use. do you think that is going to be enough all of us are on the internet. i'm hunkered down now. do you think that's going to be enough to accommodate all of us? >> over the long term it won't be enough but i think for the immediate term of the industry is rolling out new innovative technology on the six gigahertz band and we are looking forward to a second generation of technology coming into this band of technology in about two years time. that said if it continues to go

up and we expect it will with other technologies over time we do need to look for other opportunities including perhaps spectrum at the very low end of the second gigahertz range or other places we could expand the wi-fi technology. >> let me ask you something else. there is little known research in boulder colorado and i believe this facility is being underutilized given the level of expertise it had. i recently introduced a bill the telecommunication fund. this would give statutory authority to continue its work with a focus on establishing an initiative to support the development of emergency communication technologies or conventional radio communication is limited. would you elaborate on what

makes the people in boulder so uniquely positioned for the spectrum technology? >> the boulder lab is a national treasure. it's the place radar was invented in world war ii and it has a long and distinguished career in the spectrum sciences. i think innovations like your bill that would enable the lab to work on commercial issues around sharing and adjacencies would be welcome. it struck me as very astonishing we got so far down the road without having facts on the ground about what they could or couldn't do and the degree to which interference might arise. it wasn't until this fall we started seeing the facts and i noted this week there was an

article in one of the newspapers about boulder getting involved in actual measurements of dod funding so yes more flexibility in funding for the lab i think would help us with mitigating the kind of issues we've seen in the spectrum allocation. >> i have the honor and privilege of representing the first district of georgia and also included a lot of rural areas. getting broadband in those parts of the state is important for a number of reasons. learning, entertainment, whatever. understand the future of 5g there will be a fixed component your members will have with 5g. can you tell me what it will mean for rural americans, will they have access to these

broadband services? >> thank you for the focus on the wireless for 5g homes. it is a an absolutely key growth area and the companies national and regional are all investing in it. we see them covering tens of millions of homes and together they will cover over 200 million homes over the next couple of years. the key for this committee you've all made an enormous investment making sure everyone is connected to the infrastructure legislation. it can play a key role by going faster and providing the full complement of services the committee is looking for and can provide 100 megabits down and is key for connecting everyone faster and more cheaply into bringing the choice to the broadband market. >> thank you and i will yield back. >> the chair recognizes

congresswoman rice for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chair man and i just want to thank our colleague for raising the issue of the importance of the mou between the end tia and fcc and i think it is important that it be fixed and acknowledged maybe it's not where it needs to be and i think that's really important. the government and industry working together has allowed the u.s. to be the global leader in new and emerging technology. we were the first nation with widespread coverage leading to countless innovations in the u.s. including the development of the economy. now with the emergence of the next generation wi-fi capabilities, the u.s. can build on this leadership record to grow the economy and to be on the forefront of technological innovations for the goods of communities everywhere. you mentioned the importance of coordinated to spectrum

management. it seems the recent disputes involved parties that questioned the finality of the fcc's decisions. how can congress ensure they are able to have their voices heard early in the process and at the same time allow them to reach a final decision everyone can count on on making that investment decisions? >> thank you so much. that is a great question and as this committee and the chairman and ranking member have highlighted, reinforcing that interagency process and insisting on it being followed is the best step and the oversight of the committee on the process is helpful in producing that finality so i encourage the committee to stay active on that. with numbers around congress that quite often approach by private entities and on behalf of some of the federal agencies they regulate to get involved in

the process. it is a difficult one to fix into that said there is a process that is run and these entities, the government agencies should all participate fully in bringing that information to the record so we can make them evidence-based decisions. as testified, it is a sad fact that at the end of the process and in fact after the process was done that we learned that there are these concerned. that is just inexcusable. there was an opportunity for the record and the data to be submitted and to take into account those concerns. so that is sort of how we fix it. we have to insist not only on the public participation but at the end when the decision has been made in coordination with an tia and the fcc to go forward in these options that that finality is insisted upon and that there is given no quarter for those that come in after the fact to try to disrupt it.

>> can you explain how the disputes over spectrum are delayed in the deployment of new technologies? >> yes. probably the principal case of delay involves the transportation spectrum at the top end of the five gigahertz band which has lingered now for some years. the fcc a few years ago, a couple of years ago decided that some of the spectrum should be made available for wi-fi and cut cutback the amount of transportation. that continues to be disputed by the transportation industry which would like more spectrum available for communications networking of the vehicles on the road and for safety purposes et cetera. that's a prime case where the community and the transportation

sector and the fcc had different divisions for the same spectrum so now we are waiting around for a court case that will be resolved soon that will tell us what the future of the band is. and i certainly hope that once that is resolved and if it is resolved in the favor that the fcc can promptly go forward and the dot can probably go forward with implementing transportation solutions in the spectrum that is left. >> thank you to all the witnesses and i will yield back. the chair recognizes the congresswoman for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chair man for r holding the hearing. let me begin by addressing

something to mr. bergman. i thought mr. carter asked you a good question and i was very anxious to hear your answer, but i didn't hear it. the most recent annual test found that verizon and at&t's speeds in several cities are comparable or sometimes even slower than the 4g speed and to make matters worse, consumers sometimes have to pay more by upgrading the device through the plan. i do understand there are reasons speeds are not optimal yet relative to 5g, but this process of faster speeds and yes, i did watch the super bowl along with millions of others with one and after another about complete 5g across the country.

all that advertising and charging for it while delivering lower speeds, it seems to me like a highly misleading process to make. so my question is simple. why are they paying more for slower speeds and if you could be, you know, condense your answer. >> absolutely. thank you for the question. i'm glad to have the chance to answer it. thank you for saying thank you to a tough question. >> i would highlight a couple things. one, we continue to see the wireless speeds go up year after year. they are up 85 times, 360% since 2018. >> 2010 was 12 years ago. so i don't know -- let me ask you this did you read this

article? >> i've not seen that article but i know they continue to go up year after year end prices continue to go down year after year and the wireless market so we think it is critical consumers have accurate information about what they are purchasing so i would agree about that. we are incredibly excited about the advancements in the speed that we see from competition and increasing value for consumers. >> i appreciate your words, but you're not answering the question that i posed. there is heavy advertising, but what's being advertised is not so. it just isn't so. and it can be documented that it's not so. consumers are being told the

advertising simply is misleading but i understand why you don't want to acknowledge it because it is uncomfortable to but i think the problem remains. i appreciate your views and congress that they should ensure the spectrum proceeds are used in the public interest. one of the issues that i've been on for a decade and a half is nexgen 911. is there anyone on the panel that thinks that nexgen 911 should not be a part of the proceeds of the future options? is there anyone that doesn't think that? you can raise your hand. to remind everyone this is our

public safety system and i think that once and for all we need to address this and make sure that every community whether they are rural, suburban, urban, that we have a solid system for law enforcement, firefighters. we owe that to the american people. they dialed 911, they need someone to answer, so i look forward to making sure the spectrum funds are part of those funds actually going to 911. it's music to my ears to hear so many members and witnesses talking about it. they've been on that for a long time so i would rather spend time on that and ask questions because i just want to highlight that it's a delight that everyone knows especially

members that i value. >> the gentle ladies time has expired. >> mr. curtis, welcome. you have five minutes. >> thank you. i'm going to climb up on a soapbox for half a second and then ask questions with the rollout. i think we all understand the stakeholders need to be involved. i like to laugh at my colleagues back east and invite them to utah and my definition of rural his drive three hours without seeing the structure and that is

how my district is with the vast amounts of utah at the navajo indian reservation and to touch on that for a second currently the tribes have been given priority in the spectrum rollout and i'm glad. we've got to help these people imagine -- i have some people without running water and electricity let alone broadband in parts of the district. and we all know the supply chain issues that can be the layout to the tribal nations.

the committee to move forward with the option of already we need to be creative and funding the committee made available through the infrastructure. will it expire and what will that do? to have the authority heading

into. let me ask about the national spectrum strategy the challenges of the spectrum coordination we need to have the agencies coordinated. can you touch on balancing the commercial interest?

>> absolutely. we need to find ways to be more efficient. it's come about and how we use the spectrum and in the wireless industry we invest tens of billions of dollars every year to have the generations more efficient and do the same thing on the government side. >> how can congress be supportive and how do we continue to show american leadership? >> thank you for the question, mr. congressman.

>> following through to the commercialization process so that it's very clear where we are going with this and anything the congress can do to support the spectrum early with opportunities and then making sure that would be welcomed. >> the time is expired. >> the chair now recognizes you for five minutes. >> i want to thank you for holding this important hearing. the competitive edge in the 21st century it's important with one voice to move forward.

coming up in the band beyond that it becomes clear i believe the seven gigahertz band could have a meaningful opportunity to keep pipeline strong. we need to proceed carefully with the whole of government approach and looking to the administrator daily urging him to commit to finishing a study. can you describe? >> thank you, congresswoman for your leadership on the spectrum

issues. an asset for everybody to have on these issues. what i would say is this is another example where the mixed excess ratios would be beneficial to the outcome. what we learned is based on the coordination over a period of years, four to five years of coordination hearing the agencies out and working through the inner agency process only after that period taking in their prospective did we get to a situation we could utilize the most of that van and in the seven gigahertz a need for dod. only by doing that can we really utilize to the fullest

potential. it is an opportunity for the unlicensed but we do see that it might be licensed opportunities. but that a sort of open mind for a variety of access regimes can we get the federal agencies to focus on what the realm of the possible is. 1300 megahertz and as you heard there are important systems and opportunities to be more efficient with how we use the spectrum. we would encourage and follow the lead in terms of asking the federal government policy makers to look at how we can make some of that spectrum available.

we know that it's been under study since 2019 and there are real opportunity. so thank you for your leadership on that and we would love to continue working to see that it concluded in the spectrum pipeline bill. >> with indications for the next 2.5 gigahertz. the option revenue to invest.

what we have seen is they can be substantial and should be put to use is a critical need. let's also think about the digital equity. >> i would say quickly they are the bedrock of our networks including 5g.

the chair recognizes the congressman for five minutes. >> do you agree with the chair's proposal to use the proceeds near the 9/11 deployment is there much precedent for the proceeds to fund public interest project is like that?

>> thank you, congressman. we think it could be a we do support it. we think it could be a nice complement to our drive to make certain auction revenues are being used for public interest needs as opposed to the general treasury and leaving the sector. so yes, there is precedent. pret the congress designated the revenues to fund that network. it is in and out so i'm going to yield back.

thank you very much, mr. chair mr. chairman and ranking member. the livelihood and the education and the health of people across america so i would like to ask it is the most heavily used of consumer schools and businesses more now than ever before. thank you, congressman.

to provide opportunities for wi-fi. it is a key connection point as recognized to make that a meaningful connection and as i mentioned earlier it offers a real opportunity to build on what we did in the six gigahertz and so we look forward to working with you and the committee to make sure. >> you support it would give an

opportunity to take 180 megahertz channel and increase it to 360 megahertz so we look forward to that as a real opportunity. >> what should we expect to do for the tribal land et cetera so they don't fall behind the current and future as they become available? >> it's a great opportunity for the committee to look at a mix of policies and have the skills necessary and the tools to make the connection to broadband be wireless or wireline and pursuing the priority windows

when we look at the spectrum options as a critical step and in recognition of their sovereignty just making certain we understand where the service is and is not available is critical. and the data to ensure they are operating delivering of the technologies are being delivered to the rural and urban corridors so that those communities have opportunities to get that access. >> these are quite often communities that are highly dependent on the government making certain that their needs are represented in policy.

is there a battle of the band is going after public safety et cetera i know that it was mentioned more than once about the large segment within the purview. >> the government needs the spectrum that it needs and we want to be respectful of that but we do believe with others on the panel there can be more efficient use. the key is going to be working through a collaborative process with those agencies and the directions of the committees that there are certain bands that need to be sought of. if we approach it in a cooperative spirit and listen to the concerns i think we have an opportunity to open up more of the spectrum and accommodate the needs where the government agency needs to stay through sharing the opportunities.

>> i see my good friend who is waving on. especially the constituentsn my district in pennsylvania. >> how would you have a national spectrum strategy or certainty to help increase participation by the regional providers?

>> having a plan allows us to better prepare and plan and have an understanding of what spectrum could be allowed in the areas we serve so for us it means a faster expansion of access to the services. >> and that expansion is so important within the district in pennsylvania. they utilize low, mid and high band spectrum in many ways. how do we best keep the pipeline full? >> that is right the focus for 5g right now is on the med band spectrum and we would urge the committee to move forward with

the directive options to create a pipeline for 5g. there's the lower three gigahertz band. these provide the capacity to the coverage that we need to make sure we can connect everyone and continue to lead in the innovation. >> in rural america and adams county outside of gettysburg and bedford and huntington county. we look at additional spectrum as the tool to be able to expand access specifically for us hotspots and mobility where the

technicians were able to connect wirelessly in certain areas using wired fiber facilities and complete orders but we need mobility to be able to access and communicate back to ensure efficient operations. the chair recently and announces that it would begin an option of additional bands this summer. what benefits specifically for rural america would these options make available? >> thank you. for us it is consumer choice and competition essential for the additional to be rolled out and having the availability and capacity for additional bandwidth is essential to achieve your objectives are.

i would like to thank the chair for allowing me to wave on to this important hearing. thank you and i yield. >> the gentle man yields back and i see that we do have one more committee member so we will yield five minutes to the congresswoman. >> thank you, chairman, for holding the hearing today. as we have seen recently it is my hope including the ftc will help ensure we don't have the usage in the future and as 5g continues in the planning for 6g and beyond, it is important the u.s. take the leadership position to deploy the advanced technology the government and

private sector must work closely. you spoke about the spectrum bands to foster the technology leadership. can you walk us through the levels of a company like intel can begin investing to support the generations for the success of wireless technologies? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman kelly. when we look through the process, what we look at is to determine when a new spectrum band comes online we need to have radios and filters et cetera. what we try to do is make sure that we understand the international environment and where the markets are typically the u.s. has been an upfront of

that in terms of identifying the spectrum bands and then able to take that into determine when we would need to intercept and the product development timeline. when we look back at 5g we completed our analysis and started to intercept the product timelines in the september of 2015 for a decision that the international community did not make until november of 2019. do you have anything to add to the leadership on the spectrum issues to a company?

>> thank you very much. having spoken about the importance of identifying the spectrum bands early so that the industry can plan and have equipment available outside of the process, for example an unlicensed spectrum u.s. leadership plays a crucial role and we have seen in the last two years since opening up the six gigahertz band that an enormous number of countries are following suit so this is all due to the fact that it was the first mover and people are paying attention and wanting the same kind of innovation and in theireconomies that we are gg here, so a very important issue to pay attention to and i thank you for the question. >> to connect more in the future

we need to prepare for the increase and demand. we need to make more spectrum available for the licensed and unlicensed network demands. thank you for the question. the first issue is getting the 2.5 across the finish line. i think the panel here is in agreement. by the end tia to be done in the van and how important the spectrum is.

so anything we can do there is good. there are other bands in play potentially for the future. mr. bergman brought up the four gigahertz band that is being used and seven gigahertz depending could be a band of interest as well. >> thank you and my time is up. i will yield back. >> i can't tell you how happy we are that you were able to join us at the last minute, and it is my great pleasure to yield five minutes to you. >> you are so kind and that is exactly why i came back to join you. i didn't think my amendments and the committee would take so long and cause disruption but we are trying not to do that here.

today's hearing is named the 5g and beyond. future generations of the wireless networks and the 5g successors are not just blazing fast download speeds for the urban centers they will be key players protecting those like mine deploying the procedure and inagriculture, spurring better telehealth services and more. this is why i've directed my staff to begin reaching out to stakeholders so we as a caucus and a congress will continue to march towards 5g and beyond. it's imperative that we stay on top of these issues both at home and abroad and personally whether we understand it or not. wireless leadership is ensuring the spectrum pipeline does not

run dry after the upcoming 2.5 gigahertz option and i'm sorry. have you way to divide the spectrum bands that would be good candidates for future use and second what can congress do to help identify these additional bands? >> this is a place where dozens of countries around the world are using the spectrum so it is key that we put this to play and commend the committee. there's a couple of others i would encourage you all to look at as well to the seven gigahertz that has federal users in it today with important missions and we think there are opportunities to be more efficient to make some of that available for the commercial licensed used and look at what other countries are doing

internationally. for the 5g services as well so we need to be looking at the different candidates and looking at with the rest of the world is doing just as we did with 600 megahertz and do what congress has done before. >> we can't just get out of the way, we need to lead. thank you for looking beyond the borders leadership in the national standard-setting and not bolster employment efforts of our adversaries. most of your organizations have very active in standard-setting bodies around the world.

how can us participation in an international regulatory process be improved to help us take the lead in expanding spectrum 5g and going into 6g . >> thank you for the question congressman. i wanted first to differentiate between two types of standards bodies. three gdp is industry led. the intel representative are accurate active there. those are industry led and when you look at those, we send our technical experts, the ones doing technical innovation and those who have the expertise and wireless networks and how to best increase the technical capabilities of those going forward. and the regulatory in arena we have a telecommunications unit that i have, as a spectrum policy expert so that's the group that's looking more at which spectrum bands are more

applicable, etc. and there is important that we as the us understand where we are going , what we have in the pipeline in the near term but also over the longer-term that we're able to make those priorities apparent and try to get other countries to coalesce around those so i didn't want to differentiate an between the two types of standards bodies. >> thank you, ms. brown. >> i don't have much to add to stan's excellent summation . i will say that standards internationally play out in a number of venues and us leadership is critical. for example in the wi-fi world we have an industry led standards group that does most of the standardization work.

it turns out one of the key entities that does standards for wi-fi is also the european telecommunications standards agency and they are important because significant parts of the world follow theirstandard so by leading here, by leading in ieee were able to lead and betsy . >> gentlemen's time has expired.seeing no more members the chair request consent to enter into the following records and other information into the record. a letter from a broad broad range of 20 carriers and members of the wireless ecosystem urging congress to extend the fcc spectrum option authority. letter from digital liberties of the house subcommittee on communications and technology . an objection, that is so ordered. i want to thank our witness for participation. i would remind members

pursuant to committee rules they have 10 days to submit additional questions for the record to be answered by the witnesses who have appeared and i would ask the witnesses to please respond promptly to any such questions that you may receive . at this time the committee is adjourned .

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