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>> host: next we want to talk about the baby formula shortage in the u.s. with brian dittmeier, the senior director of public policy for the national women, t infants, and children association. welcome toam the program trip to thank you for having me. >> what is your organization, a national women and infants and children association, what is its mission?s >> guest: we are a nonprofit representing the state and local providers of the wic program and the wic program of course provides nutrition assistance and nutrition services to lowan income, regnant postpartum women, infants, and children after the age of five. >> who qualifies for that assistance and how many women are currently unveiling themselves of that aid in the united states? >> guest: so wic is a means tested program and its income eligible often aligns with medicaid, forof example. there's about 6.2 million

nationwide including 1.2 1.n infants who received formula benefits through the wic program. >> host: how is the wic program funded? >> guest: it a federal program that's administered by the states but it's entirely federally funded. >> host: is the funding under the biden administration gone up or down? >> guest: it has remained relatively consistent throughout both the trump and biden administration. but i think one of the big pieces during the bidende administration is that there's been an increase in the fruit and vegetable benefit for women and children. that's been what we've seen over the last two years. >> host: the connection to theio baby formula shortage is that much, and you can tell us the amount, much of the baby formula used in this country is used by wic recipients, correct? >> guest: exactly.es about 60% of infant formula purchase in the united states is

purchased by wic families. >> host: step back and tell us how the shortage in the u.s. developed. what's behind that? >> guest: the most significant driving factor behind the shortage is the closure of one of abbott nutrition manufacturing plants in michigan. this was a food safety concern, some deadly bacteria was found and potentially linked to at least two infant deaths and several infant illnesses across the country. they claim none of those cases are directly ready to the product but in discussion with the fda and inspections by the federal government, abbott nutrition decide to voluntarily recall certain powdered infant formula products from the market. >> host: how many manufacturers are there of baby formula in the u.s.? >> guest: about four companies control about 89% of the domestic infant formula. so it's a highly concentrated

market. one of the pieces we have seen coming out of this plant closure is not only is it a centralized market but each of these manufacturers have highly centralized operations as well. one of the statistics that is, is that the sturgis michigan facility that is closed is responsible for one-fifth of infant formula production in thn country and drives the overwhelmingd production of a a certain specialty formula that is needed for d infants with digestive issues, infants with allergies, and infants with metabolic disorders. and infanth metabolic disorders. host: we welcome our callers for questions for brian dittmeier. (202) 748-8000 is the line for wic recipients. (202) 748-8001 for new parents. for all others, in the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8002. mountain and pacific, (202)

748-8003. brian dittmeier, has your organization raised concern about the concentration of companies in terms of the availability of supply of baby formula in the past? guest: yes. for about 30 years, three have been competing in the space so this is not a new dynamic but we are seeing an increased competition in recent years where two of those companies control about 75% of the market. on top of that, you have seen a decrease in imports. about 98% of infant formula purchased in the united states is produced domestically. a piece of that comes from limitations in canadian products with a recent trade agreement under the trump administration. we have seen increased steps to

centralize the market over the past several decades and it is certainly concerning that we are at this point where one manufacturing plant closing can have this ripple effect throughout the entire manufacturing sector and of course lead to some significant distress, anxiety, and frustration in parents across the country. host: is the formula shortage in the u.s. affecting other countries? guest: that is my understanding, although not to the bulk of what we are seeing here in the united states. but we certainly know that some of the products manufactured in sturgis, michigan were shipped internationally as well. that is part of the recall. host: the all others line is (202) 748-8002. brian dittmeier, there was news on this front overnight before we did the segment. here's the reporting of "the new york times." the fda and abbott reach an agreement on baby formula to ease the shortage. production would restore in two weeks and store shelves would be stocked several weeks later.

what is your reaction? guest: this is a really encouraging step. most acute is the need for specialty formula and abbott nutrition has indicated that will be the first product line on the manufacturing agenda. we know that we need to fill the gap for the specialty formula to address these specific digestive and metabolic needs of infants with conditions. one of the pieces we need to be verifying is that it is not a flip of the switch. it is going to take a few weeks for that product in the sturgis, michigan plant to get on the shelf. we have been seeing that effect with manufacturers across the industry. you have seen nestle-gerber indicating that they are increasing production at the beginning of march, that nestle gerber was indicating that they are flying in products from manufacturing plants abroad as well.

despite these efforts, it has not yet translated to increased stock on the shelves. we are certainly hitting what i think is the most frustrating point of the supply challenge, but hopefully in the weeks to come between the ramp-up of production between other manufacturers and the beginning of production at sturgis, michigan, we will see increased supply in the weeks ahead. host: just a reminder of our phone lines, (202) 748-8000 if you are a wic recipient. if you are a new parent, (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 748-8002. was there any evidence that some of the shortage was due to hoarding that we have seen in other areas throughout the pandemic? guest: since news of the recall, this has been one of our concerns. frankly, with the press coverage of the last week, we are hearing

increase in panic buying across the country. retailers have generally been putting limitations on purchases and only allowing a certain number of cans per transaction. it really has been a whole of community effort in this moment where the wic agency, the retailers, manufacturers, food banks, everyone is working at this point to identify where supply is and connect families in need with that supply. at this point, it is a truly hyper-localized issue because of how limited the supply is and how that gets distributed through different channels and eventually put either on the shelf or in food banks as well. we have to identify where the supply is in each community. host: are there some spots in the country that are particularly short supplied? guest: one of the dynamics we are very mindful of is making sure that rural communities get

supply as it comes back onto the market. that is a key piece of the conversation. the distribution panel has been working effectively over the last couple of weeks. the main issue is that there is not enough product out there. it truly is a supply issue. host: let's hear from darlene from oregon. go ahead. caller: one of the things that concerns me most is our country is having a huge conflict over pro-choice and those folks who are against any kind of abortion or birth control but yet, we cannot feed the babies that we have here right now. i am also concerned that they are only four manufacturers in a country of 350 million people that are producing this product. to me, that is unconscionable. could you tell us why there are only four manufacturers left in our country that supply the baby formula? thank you.

guest: that is certainly an issue of high concern here in washington and one that a lot of legislators are starting to probe around. last week, senator tammy duckworth reached out to the federal trade commission and asked for a study on the infant formula market and the reason behind the consolidation. on top of that, we also saw legislators from both parties reaching out to the usda to figure out what powers that exist to help spur further competition in the market. that will be a topic that we move forward on in the weeks and months ahead is that we really have to bring more players into this space and we have to encourage diversification of operations within these players as well. we cannot allow one manufacturing plant to have this command over the supply. we have to really take a holistic approach across the sector. to your earlier point, we really

have to be supportive of a wide range of policies that support new parents. everything from increase prompting -- increased funding for the wic program to paid leave. it will not be the immediate solution, but we have to recognize that over decades the manufacturers have built a customer base through very aggressive marketing including free samples and presence in the hospital. that has helped cultivate a customer base and undermined breast-feeding efforts. we have to figure out an addition to supporting paid family leave and financial support for new parents, we have to be thinking how do we build a society that is more supportive of breast-feeding and workplaces that are more supportive of breast-feeding because that is often one of the most significant barriers to breast-feeding. host: the line for new parents is (202) 748-8001.

let's hear from jen in florida. go ahead. caller: i am a wic recipient. i am also a breast-feeding mom and i work. while i was breast-feeding and he really is not that easy. it is very difficult. i think a lot of men need to start getting involved and seeing how much work it takes to breast-feed and take care of a baby. also, as far as the formula, do you foresee any issues in the future with this kind of thing happening again? what do they do to plan for emergencies like this? i am seeing it all over my community where there are hundreds of women that cannot get access to breastmilk. host: have you had any issues -- caller: breastmilk and

formula. host: teddy had any issues of finding formula on store shelves -- have you had any issues of finding formula on store shelves? caller: the whole community has. there are facebook pages, they are looking for formula. i have access to costco, i can get you in there. i have a couple of extra cans, stuff like that. what is our government doing? they knew that this manufacturing plant had two sick people, yet they did not make any plans to start importing milk or whatever they needed to do to make sure that our citizens were able to get formula. host: thanks for chiming in. we appreciate that. brian dittmeier. guest: thank you so much. there are a lot of pieces here as well. the first piece is that we have to take a two step approach.

the first step is we have to fight the gap in supply immediately and then we have to take those that a hard look at the sector and figure out how we build a more resilient supply chain in the future. it will really take steps like diversifying the actual operations of manufacturers while also promoting competition in the sector. those steps are certainly being evaluated at this point. there will be a lot of lessons learned from this that will be implemented in the months ahead as well. to your earlier point around breast-feeding support, i think that is critical. wic provides breast-feeding support not just for moms, but we really try to make it a whole family effort and we work with dad, grandparents to help build the family support for the breast-feeding effort because it is a financial cost to breast-feed as well as a time

cost and you really need that family support moving forward. on top of that, going to that whole of community approach to how do we address the immediate supply, it is critical that we have not just community stakeholders like the retailers, the wic agency, and the food bank, but thankfully the mom groups have been really effective in this time. we have been able to identify where supply is in community and connect moms in need with the supply. one of the pieces i want to touch on when we have moms at this moment is talking about social media, bit of concern about some of the practices that are being elevated on social media and not necessarily saying that it is happening in your mom grew particularly, but we are seeing a number of homemade infant recipe formless circulating online and another -- a lot of encouragement to dilute formula and both of those practices are risky. it could result in long-term

risks to your baby. we would caution against both of those approaches. i would also flag as well that we are encouraging families to continue to wait until you are one to introduce cows milk. the academy of pediatrics came out with some guidance on this front but we really want to make sure that those three risky behaviors and infant feeding practices are cautioned against, especially since so many parents are stressed. we really encourage either breastmilk or infant formula at this time. it really takes that holistic approach to see how we can connect families with what they need. host: we will go to tom in tennessee. go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. i had another comment but when i

heard the lady talking about abortion, she is wanting to kill all the babies. that will take care of it, right? instead of feeding them, let's just kill them all, that is what she is saying. we have got to make sure they are never elected again. host: next is stephen in pennsylvania on the others line. caller: good morning. everybody should take a look at the report that was filed by the fda and the cdc concerning the bacteria that was supposedly being found in that factory. that did not have anything to do with them shutting it down and they have been trying to get that back online and the biden administration has refused to do it. all you have to do is get your public records. the cdc and the fda did not find any connection with that bacteria with the loss of two children.

that is sad to begin with, let alone the administration not coming up with a way to figure out the problem and get it back online or letting them do so. all you have to do is read the format that just came out. host: brian dittmeier, the fda did allow that plant come back online, correct? guest: that is breaking news of yesterday. we are encouraged by that step. i do want to underscore that it is often said that infant formula is one of the most highly regulated products in the country and there is a reason why that is, but because -- because it is often an exclusive source of nutrition for infants. particular care has to be put into the safety of these products as well as baby foods to make sure that when infants are consuming them that they are safe. i am encouraged that all stakeholders, both the fda and abbott nutrition issued a

voluntary recall in february, took the concerns around it seriously because this is a matter of life and death and we need to make sure that we are doing everything in our power to promote safety in the food supply. host: a comment from a viewer in blairsville, pennsylvania who says, "i saw how much powdered milk -- powdered baby formula cost. i was astounded. there is not much in the formula unless it is a special kind. now i know prices are so high because of government subsidies." is that true? guest: i would not necessarily say that government subsidies are the reasons for the price but that is certainly a matter that should be explored in any federal trade commission along with a number of other factors that are driving price concerns and market consolidation concerns. one of the pieces that i would say is most significant is well

-- significant as well as around the marketing. these manufacturers spend a lot of money to market their products in hospitals. one of the concerning practices that we have heard is that these companies are still sending three samples to unsolicited free samples to families during the supply crisis. one would think that you would rethink that practice when you are having difficulty stocking the shelves. we have to take a look at the marketing as well as the pricing and the operation of these manufacturers to make sure that we have a more resilient supply chain method that responds to the needs of parents and not the needs of sharing heather's -- needs of shareholders. host: last week, the president laid out additional measures that the administration is taking to address baby formula

shortage. i want to play his comments and get your response. [video clip] pres. biden: number one, we are releasing guidance today to all the states in the possible flex abilities in the wic program because they are sort of strict guidelines. if you have a wic, you can purchase a certain amount of formula but you cannot purchase more. the problem is the packaging issues are becoming a difficulty. we are changing it so that the wic program, you can buy what is on the shelf. it is the top issue raised with me. the flexibility should not depend on whether you have it packaged exactly what meets the requirement for people on the with program. secondly, the fda issued a

statement. i was on the telephone. on the wic program, when i spoke to walmart and the major distributors yesterday, or the day before, i cannot remember, they wanted this flexibility because they did not want to be violating the law. the top issue for retailers. the fda just issued a statement about importation of formula from abroad. the fda has been looking at working with manufacturers to facilitate the incorporation of formula from abroad from places like europe where we can get more product on u.s. shelves. that is underway. it will be in a matter of weeks or less, getting more formula on shelves. the fda is ensuring and maintaining the high safety standards. host: brian dittmeier, on the

importation of baby formula, is that something that is allowed under federal law? guest: one of the pieces that we are seeing out of the fda guidance is that there are a lot of barriers to importing formula in the first place. we are seeing that issue being explored by the fda and congress on what steps need to be taken to allow for the importation of formula. in the immediate steps to make sure that there is supply in my thoughts to this crisis, but that will be a question on the table as we think about the long-term resilience of the supply chain is do we need to be importing more formula moving forward and if so, how do we make sure that any formula imported is aligned with safety standards and all of the other requirements that exist? host: we have a moment or two before the house. let's get a quick call from rei

in virginia. caller: we had a similar problem in australia a few years ago where people were buying a lot of baby formula off the shelves and therefore, there was not any baby formula for other people. they found out that they were exporting these formulas or these baby formula to china and they had boats coming in and shipping them out. can you address that, please? guest: we have to take stock of the resilience of the supply chain. since so much of our production is domestic, that we need to be assessing if exports are a part of the factor as well. right now what we are seeing is that so much of the product that is produced by domestic manufacturers is moving forward into the american supply chain

and we are even hearing from multiple and we are even hearing from multiple manufacturers thatey they're flying product in further international facilities to provide more supply for the united states. again, we have to stay focused on the immediate challenge before us while also being very mindful of what long-term steps are needed to build a more resilient supply chain out to make sure that these manufacturers are prepared to address any concerns, any safety challenges while still assuring supply for the market here in the united states. >> host: brian dittmeier, senior director of public policy on the national women and infants and children association. thanks for joining us. >> guest: thanks foral having me. >> host: it is primary day in five states across thess country and one state is getting a lot of attention and that is pennsylvania. joining us to talk about some of the races in the keystone state is katie meyer, political reporter with whyy in