you're interested in and i think what has to change is the nature of policing has to change and we need to take that rolled out of policing. police should be used to investigate crime, prevent crime but i think traffic stops are major problems because they disproportionately focus on people of color . >> little rest cordell on c-span's q and a. you can listen to it on our new c-span now app. >> up next, book tvs monthly index program with author and emory university professor carol anderson her books include what white rage, one person one vote and the second: race and guns in a fatally unequal america about the impact of thesecond amendment . >> carol anderson , 2022.

what is the july 4, 1776 calibration mean to you? >> it means that we are so precariously perched as this democracy that we are here on july 4, 1776. where in a perilous time, as perilous as it was with the continental army looks like they were getting their butts kicked . as perilous as it looked when the south attacked fort sumter and launched the civil war. we are in perilous times where our democracy is hanging by a thread. >> why do you say that? >> because we got what i call a land see an air attack. what's happening in american democracy, the land attack is the assault onvoting rights . the c attack is the attack to wash away the teaching of real american history. and the air attack is the loosening of gun law while

having a narrative that the insurrection was legitimate political discourse. and while seeing that there was all this violence and its sweat raining down on election workers. and election officials. so when you're looking at what's happening with voting, when you're looking at what's happening with our education system and the ways, the narratives that we come to understand is as a nation and then when you look at the deployment of bias as a tool of politics. we are under a full-blown assault. aided and abetted by the us supreme court. aided and abetted by hyper extreme partisan gerrymandered legislatures, where in trouble. and we're where the hope is is that we have always fought back. we have always hknown this democracy was worth a fight.

and so we have to gear up again and fight for this democracy. fight for this nation as a historian at emory university , there's been some comparisons made to pre-civil war times. can you make that comparison or see that. >> yes, in ways where you get this sense of two nations, two separate nations going in to do very different directions. one direction is all that believes in the fullness of citizens humanity. the belief that people have rights . that believe that there is this thing called democracy. on the other hand you have those who call, who have what i want to say is there invoke democracy, a democracy where you have a vast lifeless labor pool that's generating enormous resources that then

go up to a small strata of whites. and then what that small strata have done is that they have convinced the larger on number that they too can get the benefit of this massive set of resources coming up from this vast labor pool but that's not howthis thing works . so you're getting a sense of a hyper racialized democracy where only a small strata have full-blown rights versus a democracy that is multiracial, multiethnic, multi-religious. and so those two visions of what this nation is and can be is where the collision course is in this conversation today on in-depth i want to focus mainly on three of your books and that includes one person no vote, white rage and the second. >> they all seem to have come

from incidences that happened in our world, and can you outell me if this is a fair comparison. one person no vote we had the georgia gubernatorial race. white rage, michael brown, the second philando castile. is that fair way to put it? >> almost in that one person no vote emanated out of the 2016 election because there what struck me was the pundits were saying hillary lost because black folks didn't show up because you know, they're not feeling hillary . she's not obama so black folks just stayed home what the analysis did is it ignored the fact that this was the first presidential election in 50 years without the protection of the voting rights act. which the us supreme court

had gutted in 2013 so once you began to factor in that you had a number of states implementing holder suppression such as racially discriminatory voter id laws, such as limiting early voting, such as closing only places in black communities, once tyou began to look back, you're coming up with a very different narrative aboutwhat happened in 2016 . >> what's a racially hinged voter id law? >> i love that question, thank you. it is where you have for instance alabama, alabama with its voter id law said you must have a government issued photo id. but your public housing id does not count. as government issued photo id. 71 percent of those in public housing in alabama are african-american.

and what the naacp legal defense fund found was for many it was the only permits issued photo id they had. then governor bentley shut down the department of motor vehicles and the black belt counties. so when you don't have, when the government one government issued photo id you have doesn't count , and then you're like i'll get a drivers license. but then the drivers license euros are shut down and you have to go the miles to go get a drivers license so if you don't have a drivers license how do you go the 50 miles, basically 100 mile round-trip and transportation is ranked 48, alabama ranked 48 in the nation in terms of public transportation so it's not like you, on some public transportation and go that 50 miles threat that's what i mean by racially discriminatory voter id law. >> let's take a look at white rage. michael brown, amidou diallo,

is that where that book stems from? >> in so many ways it was in the same call the op-ed project which was teaching faculty how to write for a public audience. and we had a workshop later that day and i got the tv on and the news was just glaring and it didn't matter which channel i was watching because ferguson missouri was on fire. and the pundits were all saying this black rage. who burns up where they live, black burnout where they live. can you believe all of this black rage and it didn't matter which channel i had on , it was the same narrative. i had lived in missouri for like 13 years s. and so i found myself shaking my head going no, this isn't black rage. this is white rage. this was where i came up with

that we as a nation are so focused in on the flames that we miss the kindling area we miss the policies that are in place that then generate that explosion. we miss what we do with education. we miss what we do with housing. we miss what we do with the criminal justice wsystem. we miss what we do with the voting rights. we miss all those tea th fundamental basics of life in america. and the policiesthat systematically undermine . and then turn around and say look at black folks where they live. that's looking at the white rage, denise. >> this is a quote from from white rage. white rage is not about physical violence but rather it works its way through the courts. legislatures and a range of government bureaucracies. the trigger for lack, for white rage part of me inevitably is black advancement.

>> this is what being a historian allow me to do. it was to see the patterns. it was to see after the civil war when you have emancipation. this should have been moved but i instead this massive backlash happened with the black codes that were trying to reinstall slavery by another l name and then had johnson systematically undermine that the civil war should have been about and then having the us supreme court got the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment as well as the enforcement act and the force act which don't with racial discrimination and segregation in public facilities as well as going after white domestic terrorism. so when you have these entities such as the president of the unitedstates , these governors and the us supreme court issuing these edicts and these executive

orders and these laws undermine that advancement of what freedom meant, that's white rage and i carried it through to the great migration, through the brown decision, through the civil rights movement and through the election of barack obama. >> one of the things you do with the brown decision is talk about how it wasn't really fully implemented in some places like in san antonio. >> absolutely. part of what we see there in san antonio is that you have this massive disparity so you got this sense of equality coming up through the 14th amendment, this equal protection under the law so in a neighborhood of san antonio with overwhelmingly mexican american african-american, they were taxing themselves at the highest level allowed. but still only able to generate a few dollars like $21 per student, per capita. whereas the edgewood district

which was a wealthy white suburb of san antonio basically tax themselves at a much lower rate but becauseof property values , a were able to generate so much more hundreds of dollars per capita. so the parents, the mexican american parents sued saying this is fundamentally unequal. fundamentallyunequal. where taxing ourselves at the highest rate but because of public policy that has devalued our property , we cannot generate enough income , enough tax dollars to adequately fund a quality education for our children. us supreme court look at that and said the quality does not require equal funding. so that kind of disparity that you saw then and that we see now is blessed on high by

the us supreme court. >> the most recent book is the second, race and guns ina fatally unequal america . about 42 million african americans in the state and according to statistics not 25 percent of them are gun owners. doubling the last 10 or 20 years. >> i'm not surprised. one of the things that i look at in the second was how access to guns that anti-blackness drove the second amendment. so regardless of the legal status of african-americans enslaved free blacks, was called denizens which was that peace between citizen and enslaved.emancipated african-americans, civil

rights movement african-americans, obama african-americans. regardless of that kind of legal status where we think the progress that we have made, the fear of black people has created this crisis that were looking at. it has driven the second amendment so african-americans buying guns, when you begin to think about the terror that has rained down on the society. you saw the lives of the right-wing militia during obama. you saw the rise of white ownership during obama's presidency and then we had trouble. you saw that embrace of white nationalism, white supremacy. and you saw because of the technology, the kind of police violence that rains down on black folks so you

have african-americans doing what they have consistently done which is to say we have to defend ourselves in this society nobody's coming to help us. >> was this book you thought were right, something thatyou had thought about for quite a while and mark . >> no actually. it really was the killing of philando castile that did it. my body of work deals with civil rights. and when philando castile was gunned down by a police officer because he had a licensed weapon. that was why he was gunned down. land the nra, the national rifle association went virtually silent on this killing of a man simply because he had a gun. and so you had pundits asking don't african-americans have second amendment rights? and i went that is the right question. that is the question that i

have not explored yet. so i went hunting and i went to the 17th century. i found this incredible fear of the enslaved and of free blacks and the laws coming through to try to deal with the fear. that tried to protect the white community from the enslaved. from free blacks and a key element in that was this armament. was the banning of access to guns. so you saw that laws coming out of virginia and south carolina, thou shalt not have guns or those who were enslaved and for free blacks. and you saw the coming through in the constitutional ratification convention where you get to virginia and

virginia is like, i'm not really sure about this constitution thing and while virginia wasn't so sure about this constitution thing one of the key elements you had patrick henry and george mason saying you know, this militia that we need in order to keep the enslaved in check , james madison has put control of that under the federal, so we can't rely on the feds to defend us when the enslaved rise up. because the federal government had folks in there from pennsylvania and from massachusetts . they're not going to be coming down here to defend us so we need to have the protection or we will be left defenseless. and they basically threatened to scuttle ratification. when that didn't work they

then threatened to hold a new constitutional convention. madison was scared out of his bejeebers. that's the scholarly term. because the articles of confederation had not worked so they had pushed through this new constitution that gave the federal government enhanced power. but there was this fear that the federal government was too powerful. and this is why we had in the first congress the bill of rights. but when you think about that bill of rights, freedom of religion. the right not to be illegally searched and seized. the right to a speedy and fair trial. the right not to have cruel and unusual punishment. the right to a well regulated militia for the security of a free state. that's seen as an outlier and that outlier is basically the bride to the south to not

hold a new constitutional convention. it is to say you are protected. the militia is safe. >> were you surprised at what you found? >> yes, i really was. i thought because so much of our discussion today about the second amendment is about the individual rights, their arms or was it really about a militia so we get this binary going on. this is all about individual rights coming out of the supreme court decision and the mcdonnelldecision . or is this about the militia which the courts have long held this was really about a militia mibut that argument, that binary argument is irrelevant. is irrelevant the cause the foundation of the second amendment is the fear of blackness. the fear of black people

defining african-americans as criminal, as a threat, as dangerous, as violence and that the white community has to be protected . and i went, wow. that's why things then began to make sense. and in its own really weird way. so as i walk through this book i even take us up to the 20th and 21st century and seeing the ways we understand citizenship through gun rights. open carry, castle doctrine. being able to defend your home against an invader. i just blacked. but those kinds of doctrines that become foundational. stand your ground. those kinds of doctrines that become foundational when they're applied to african-americans, they don't

hold. i went, wow. so i have examples in their of like tamir rice who was in an open carry state. 12-year-old boy playing in the park by himself in cleveland with a toy gun and granted, it didn't have the red on it that says i have a toy but ohio is an open carry state that says as long as you're not threatening anyone , you can carry your weapon o. openly. police rolled up, there was in two seconds they shot tamir rice down. he was dangerous. he was a threat and then i juxtaposed tamir rice to kyle rittenhouse who has an ar 15, stole by the protesters in

the cops in kenosha and the police are so where so glad you guys are here. you want some water, it's hot here. he then shoots threepeople . two of them he kills. he walks back towards the police officer. with his hands up k. they don't see a threat. they don't see danger they're not afraid . that speaks volumes about the second amendment. >> were you in a way shape or form of a person prior to writing your most recent book ? >> gun person? number it wasn't like i was pro-gun or anti-gun. i was just here and like i said, it was this discussion about philando castile that really send me down this path of really trying to find you know, do african-americans have secondamendment rights ? i have always, i had always is a long hard work but i

have generally been one that has said we need to be reasonable about guns and so the semi automatic weapons being readily available to civilians makes no sense to me. none. you can't hunt with an ar 15 the deer afterwards, come on so just the kind of logic. ar 15 are for hunting people. so the basic logic in there. i've been there onthe basic logic . >> welcome back to the book tv index studio, the first time in two and half years we have been back with a guest in the studio and we're pleased that it's emory professor and author ercarol anderson. if you've been listening you part of the some of thetopics we're going to be talking about today . your participation is key on book tv. here's how you can get through. here's the phone numbers.

if you live in east central time zones, 200-2748 800 is the number for you to call. if you live in the mountain or pacific time zone 202-748-8201. if you can't get through on the phone orwould like to make a comment , here's the text number, these are for text messages only. include your first name in your city.202748 8903. will also scroll through our social media site. twitter, facebook. just remember at book tv if you'd like to make a comment on any of those sites and we will begin taking those in just a few minutes. carol anderson, how long have you been at emory? >> i got there in 2009. from the university of missouri where i was there for 13 years. >> why did you translate yourself to georgia?

>> emery is an amazing university. and it was an opportunity to really grow and thrive. and to be in place surrounded by scholars who are asking these really tough, hard questions. and seeking the answers. and then there's atlanta. which is an amazing city so, yes. >> missouri, columbia missouri. atlanta. where did you start life? >> has started life in columbus ohio . actually that's not accurate. my father was in the military so i was born on an army base . we lived in germany for several years. then when he retired from the military after 20+ years he then moved hito columbus ohio

because he wanted my brother to go toohio state . so that's where i did a lot of my growing up in columbus ohio. >> where do you go to school? >> i went to school e my undergrad and my masters are at miami university in oxford ohio and my phd is from the ohio stateuniversity . >> why did you decide to become an author, what you to youabout getting a phd ? >> i love learning. i have, there were always books in our home. always books. always discussions inthe house about what was happening in the world . about politics. about civil rights and about injustice. and it was me trying to figure this thing out. and i had wonderful mentors along the way that really helped me figure out how to become a scholar. there was alan able,

professor alan engle who was my common law professorat miami . who i know this is going to be hard to believe but we weregoing over some case and i popped off . he went anderson, may i see you after class? and i'm going through the oligarchs, i'm getting ready to get thrown out of this class . it's a five hour class. i'm going to lose full-time status. just it rolls through my head. he says about going to graduate school? yes i have no idea how to get there. he's like, come with me so having mentors like that that helped me through what could be a very archaic opaque process was instrumental. but it was that natural love of learning. i was one of those kids who would read the world book encyclopedia from agency and

then read it all over again just in case i missed something. >> what you teach at emory? >> i teach the civil rights movement. i teach 20th century african-american history. i teach war crimes and genocide. i teach americanhuman rights policy . i teach the black athlete in americansociety . and at one point i also taught us cold war foreign-policy. >> let's go back to your home state of georgia. you've got a black athlete running forsenate down there . >> yes we do. yes we do. we really have is a deployment of representation that is not representative. it was the same way that republicans alan keyes to run

against obamathinking there's somebody black, that to do it. it's hthe same thing with herschel walker, football star out of the university of georgia . let's put him up against rafael warnock and what we're seeing is someone who has a history of violence . someone lewho consistently lies about his credentials and someone who has not thought through policy so to have someone, the reason he's there is because he's black . not because he can do the heavy lifting of being a us senator. it was a cynical ploy and so the answer that he gave after the killings in uvalde texas when they said i want to handle the issue of guns and he said well, cain slew able

and then you got this disinformation so what we need to have is a department where you have, so you could have laid department that looks at young man looking at young women on the social media because of constitutional rights and was like a hard drive that has been corrupted so it had these little soundbites on their and then east on them together so i know i need to say something about the bible. i know i need to say something about social media. i know i need to say something about constitutional rights and disinformation and that's what we got but that wasn't policy. that wasn't lawful .so it is in fact insulting to think that black folks are going to run that way simply because he's black. that's not enough. >> have you ever been in ebenezer when pastor warnock

is preaching? >> no i haven't. >> is it hard to get in at this point on a sunday morning into ebenezer, can anyone come in? >> anyone can come in, i'm sure. ebenezer is a storied church . it is like, bedrock foundational to the history of black atlanta and to the history of thecivil rights movement . is where reverend doctor martin luther king speaks. it is where daddy king was. it's ebenezer. it's ebenezer. >> a lot of news reports indicated that the 2022 georgia primary election after the georgia legislature made some changes to the voting laws went very smoothly and that there was good turnout . >> and i'm going to like and that to ... you get to house

oppressive can this be when we had this great turnout? what that narrative doesn't look at is all the mobilization of civil society . all of the work of the new georgia project. all the work of the black voters matter fund. all the work of the naacp. all of the work of the lds and the aclu and asian americansadvancing justice . all of those groups trying to move folks through, under, beyond, over, across the barriers that the georgiaor legislature set in place . and so i'm liking it to somebody tries to rob you. they don't succeed. they're able to your able to fend them off, a group of folks are able tofend them off . but the fact that they were able to be successful, wash

away that the fact that they tried to rob you, because they tried. but you have a group of folks who helped you fend off that person was mugging you. and so when you look at sp 202, it is a mugging . of georgia voters. it is predicated on the big lie, the trump big lie of massive voter fraud that no one can prove becauseit didn't happen . and it is predicated on how do we stop these folks because we had incredible turnout in the 20/20 election and in the 2021 run off in the 2021 senatorial runoff, black voter turnout was almost 92 percent. now, when you're in a democracy that's multiracial, multiethnic, multi-religious you embrace kind of your life

we did something right. how do we continue on with this. unless you're going for a herringbone democracy. at your life how do we stop this? >> is anderson, last question before we get to calls. in all your books , the subject of human rights plays a role and it doesn't permeate necessarily but you bring it brup and you leave it in. why is that? >> voting rights are so foundational. it was my first book, my dissertation that became my first book , i lost the prize and i asked the question how could all the blood, all of the courage. all of the effort by civil rights for lead to an america where the life expectancy of

african-americans has declined. where you're having massive disparities in maternal mortality rates. we're having massive wealth gaps that she the kinds of ways that people can move through this society. how could the civil rights movement that is one of the things that we herald. we look at this going we have overcome. this is the unfinished business of democracy handling that business. how could all of that have still left the america that ran and what my research showed was that we had a civil rights movement, not a human rights movement. and i wonder how that happened to cause remember xyou had malcom x saying house black man going to gethis civil rights before he gets his human rights . andeverybody was like , whew but what i found was that you had that naacp and wbtv

toward saying the same thing a generation earlier. so what's to create that level of humidity amnesia as this malcolm was the first one to say that's where i found the power of the cold war and the power of anti-communism in the majority witchhunt that defined human rights. the right to healthcare,the right to education. the right to housing . as communistic, those are the things that the soviets want and if you're a real patriot you don't want that. and how those witchhunts were systematically just targeted african-americans and african-american organizations that were fighting for the human rights replatform to the point where it became politically safer to argue on a platform of civil rights and safer

doesn't mean safe because we know the violence that rain down folks. fighting for civil rights. but it became politically safer to be able to argue on the civil rights platform all bill nt is what's in the of rights. what could be more american than the bill of rights. then to talk about wanting the right to have healthcare. the right to employment. the right to leisure. looking at the universal declaration of human rights because the un had also been passed as communist organization by the right-wing in american politics. so my work really deals with those kinds of truncated rights and the residuals of what that looks like as we live through this america. >> i promise that was the last question before we go to

calls a couple more came to mind but we will hear from leo in the bronx, leo, you're on with author and professor carol anderson . >> thank you. miss anderson i enjoyed seeing you on c-span when you college students. but my question is stacy abrams changed her position. she used to be against the idea of requiring people when they vote to present id. and i heard recently she changed her position. could you explain why? >> part of, thank you for that question. part of what you're seeing has been basically the work of the sense that voter ids are reasonable. voter id, everybody has an id and that we have voter fraud. voter fraud so that it's not too much to ask for people to

show an id in order to protect democracy. in order to protect our elections. they looked at polls and it's something like 70 percent of americans believe that voter fraud happens on a regular basis or something like that. 50 percent believe it happens regularly. and so coming up against that tide, it allows for the discussion about we've got to have laws that protect our evoting rights. when that becomes, when the shoals that it runs up against is voter id and you've got most americans believing voter id is a crime because again, because it plays to a middle-class norm and the racial discrimination that is apparent in the ways these have deployed voter id. it's felt like battle. a battle too far.

>> cornelius, alexandria louisiana good afternoon to you. >> good afternoon and happy and blessed for the fourth of july. mister anderson, i'm really enjoying your stuff. i see your history professor and i was telling the colors i was a democrat for a long time. but i draw the republican party because it'sthere some different things the democrats are doing . my parents were trinity democrats but they were republicans first. because the republican party cuts out african-americans instead. my question for you, i believe in god, guns and the bible, bullets and beans. our constitution if you look at ben franklin, he said this is a representative republic.

it's not a democracy. that we are supposed to be a representative republic or constitutional republic . i agree with you on racism but when philando castile got murdered that cockpit should never have done that and after the civil war, the nra was trying to teach blacks to have gun ownership, to protect themselves when the democrats had the clan and stuff. i don't know if you know the history of the democratic party. the plan was a military wing of the democratic party. they were the ones that came up with the jim crow laws . >>. >> host: cornelius, very t quickly. why are you a republican today? >>. >> caller: because the democrats have lied to us. they wanted to defund the

police, they don't want us to have guns . we're killing ourselves with these gangmembers and drug dealers and stuff so all of us need to be armed up . >> cornelius, thank you very pr much. professor, has somebody raised thatpoint to you in court ? >> there were a couple of points there. one was what the democrats are and yes,after the civil war the democrats were the party of white supremacy . unabashed, unalloyed white supremacy. one of the things that has happened though and it's called the southern strategy. what the southern strategy did was as the democrats began to deal with the issue of civil rights for african-americans, because of the great migration, because african-americans were moving out of the jim crow south , is that you had the republicans going there is gold in those hills.of white resentment. about civil rights and you

see it being deployed. you see it being deployed in 48. you see it being deployed in 52. ,you see it being deployed in 64 and you particularly see it being deployed with richard nixon in 68. ronald reagan and 80. so if you wonder why we have this graphic ships, it is because of the southern strategy. where the republicans brought in the sense of anti-civil rights as their mantra. and the issue about guns and that we're killing each other. one of the things we often hear about is black on black crime that is the narrative of black mythology. yes, over 80 percent of black people are killed by black people . over 80 percent of white people are killed like white people. but we don't have the narrative of white on white violence. why is that. sometimes we have to ask but

next question. and what you also have is that you have washington dc and chicago have limited gun safety loss to try to deal with the homicide rate in those cities. you have the us supreme court first in the helen decision and then in the mcdonnell decision undermine those safety laws. and you saw w guns flooding into those communities again so this is why after that you have governor abbott talking about but what about chicago. because that becomes kind of odd trope of black violence that is deployed consistently. by republicans. >> text message from kelvin in baltimore. good afternoon doctor anderson. how does the evangelical white plate part in fueling

our divide our society and are presently and its influence in the supreme court i.e. the federal level. >> the role of white evangelical christianity is powerful.. it really became of course i want to say in the 70s and really took hold in the80s . it has not let go. there's a wonderful edbook called the long southern strategy by todd shields and angie maxwell that looks at the three pillars of the law the southern strategy. one of those is racism. another pillar is patriarchy. and the other pillar is white evangelical christianity. and the role that it plays in the republican, in the domination of the republican party and its seshaping those policies and so we're seeing this in the recent scotus

decision where you have in maine where maine was only funding secular schools. and vouchers for secular schools and where you had these white evangelical christians like hey, we want some of that public money to the us supreme court says yeah, we have to do this. it is where you have the decision where the coach was kneeling on the 50 yard line and you had the supreme court ignoring the evidence that this was a public school. this was a public event on a public field where you have the power of the coach around his players kneeling in a christian prayer. now, you have to ask yourself if maine happens to have the school of satanic devotion, are they going to be eligible for public funds to? part of what you're seeing

happening is this narrowing definition of what is religion and you have lauren boebert talking about how is she sick of hearing about the self separation of church and state. that's the firstamendment but treating it as if it's made up . so much of what we're seeing in america is made up history . that to justify policies are absolutely abhorrent to democracy. >> call for professor carol anderson comes from amanda in maryland . i pamela. >> thank you for taking my call.doctor anderson, it's an honor to speak with you. i've been married 36 years and african-american mom of two african-american sons and i would like to know can you speak and it's kind of been alluded to already. can you the issue and

ideology that we are still hyping the federal confederacy and its ideology towards state rights that have ensued from andrew johnson who was president at the lincoln's assassination, who was a staunch state rights supporter and he favored the restoration of the confederate state for the civil government to be back and as a result during that time you had that civil rights and liberties guaranteed by the federal government for example they never got there 40 acres and a mule in the former slave owners were getting money fofor every slave that was made free, i believe around $300,000 but anyway, how all this still is going on to the current today that we face and how in the 60s there was like a flip and the republicans began to embrace

the states rights ideology and i guess i thought they were dixiecrat but the former democrat, they were now embracing the rights of the federal government to protect african-americans and others ca . can he how innocence otwe are still fighting this confederacy and the ideology, it's just changed forms. >> before we get an answer can you tell us to a little about yourself west and mark you live in a a very nice community, one of the wealthiest black majority black communities in america. have you faced some of the issues that you talk about? >> on a public servant, i'm a state employee and i work for young ladies that are on medical assistance and the undocumented who don't have healthcare. and we provide healthcare roand make sure that they have access anso they can have healthy babies so i'm a public servant but iei believe

in giving back. i was raised by maternal grandmother. i love my mom who happens to be a nurse at a young age so i believe in giving back but i can see what we're dealing with. i thought this is stuff that i read about. i never thought i would be living in a time where my rights were being assaulted and having to go vote. i have family. my family came from alabama. my mom was born and raised in alabama so to see what we have to go through . my father was born and raised in georgia to see what we have to face here in 2022 is justmind-boggling . >> professor anderson one of the things, i was given a talk in virginia. and i said one of the things isthat when we look at germany, germany had and enough education program . we never had the deacon sterilization program. we never looked at the

confederacy and dismantled it in its entirety. instead, what we have, we started erecting statues to it. to its leaders. robert e lee. jefferson davis. we started having in our textbooks because of the united daughters of the confederacy the lost cause becomes this relic event and when you begin to think about what that means for theway that our children learn , what they understand so that slavery really wasn't that bad. you had reallybenevolence, kind owners . you had, the enslaved were fed well.they were closed. they had housing. what could be so bad? and you had this bigmean nasty north coming down and trying to impose its willon these really good , honest hard-working noble folks . when that becomes the narrative in our textbooks

until like the 1970s, and think about the battles that we have had recently overtaking down these confederate monuments in these public spaces. because what that's telling us is that this is who we should be honoring. and so we've got these tectonic plates underneath american society that basically says you know, the confederacy, they were good. slavery really wasn't that bad. i think about bill o'reilly who after michelle obama talk about living in a house that was built by the enslaved and on his show he said you know, it really wasn't thatbad . they were housed, they were well closed, well fed. so how bad could it be. when you get that coming in in the 21st century, it is

the thing that we have not with. we have not dealt with slavery and when you look at how these states are demanding a revision of the curriculum so that it doesn't make white students feel uncomfortable. that it doesn't cause kind of sense of being ill at ease so we don't talk about slavery. and i saw where in texas there thinking about srenaming slavery involuntary relocation. so when you can create these euphemisms to cover the horror of what this nation has been through, when you don't deal with the reality of slavery, you don't deal with the reality of genocidal violence against indigenous people. diyou don't deal with the reality of the phobia and our anti-immigrant policies.

you don't deal with the reality of the relocation of the japanese. when you don't deal with any of those realities, you don't understand america. and frankly you do a disservice to america. because america is an aspirational nation. we hold these truths to be self evident. and so having folks fight to make those truths self evident is a key piece of american history. but when you remove that and you treat those aspirations as if they have already been achieved, that is what allows for the embrace of the confederacy and the whitening up of slavery. the whitewashing of slavery. i remember i got a notice from an organization i had

been supporting that said come visit our beautiful plantations in mississippi. come see true southern charm and i thought what kind of message this because i sent them a note back and i said, no more than you would herald a tour of auschwitz as a testament to find german engineering. should you look at these plantations than anything but what they are. a place where human beings were bred, were born, were beaten, were worked without pay. were tortured. these slave labor camp's. when you try to pretty it up, you defile american history and so part of what we're looking at is the defiling of american history by not

dealing with the confederacy and how it was able to maintain its power through the southern democrats and now through the republicans. >> should those plantations though be maintained as historic sites ? >> yes they should and they should be maintained as historic sites the same way auschwitz is maintained as a historic site. you need to have accurate history in those sites laying out what's really happened there.there was one of those battles and that gordon reed is the one to talk about this. thebattles over monticello . thomas jefferson's place where prior to you had this he was one of the founding fathers.he my god, he was brilliant. he was wonderful and then you're like so where was sally hemmings. that narrative, that history

is essential for understanding the battles that we have as america. this kind of we hold these truths to be self-evident. but we've got to protect slavery. we are the leader of the free world. we are the jim crowleader of the free world . that kind of dichotomy is absolutely essential for understanding this nation. >> next call for carol anderson comes from nate in mesa arizona. >> hi. this is a wonderful show. ms. anderson, i never watch c-span. i just happened to turn the tv on and i just got intrigued. i'm 60, black man. i live in mesa arizona and i returned to school back when i was 47, doctor got a degree

in entrepreneurship but to go into the class i had to write a leadership paper to be accepted into the university. so i basically just picked a topic of the disproportionate incarceration african-american males in 1818 and 35. >> ..

i can't go to every, is an online masters program? >> thank you, dave. >> meant of my classes were online. during the height of covid, we went to all my classes for the protection of our students and faculty but we are now back in the classroom. host: carol anders ask authors what their favorite books are, or what they are currently reading. i want to go >> i want to go what you said about currently reading, usually we get specific titles but this

is quote from an e-mail, a brazilian. [laughter] i'm a judge in the nonfiction category for the national book award. some of your books have been listed for that as well. >> that's -- what are you eating? a bazillion books. [laughter] are coming in and i'm going to them, they are fascinating. it is intriguing seen authors wrestle with different types of subjects across the board. >> this is your first time being a judge? >> judge for the national book award. other than the judge last year but the pulitzer, this is the first one from the national book award. >> books you have to be before the ceremony in november. >> we get somewhere between 600 to 700 books, a bazillion. [laughter] and just plowing through them to

really make sure we make good choices. >> favorite books, jasmine ward. even worst and it looks. steve larson, the girl who kicked the hornets nest. work without mercy and william -- kristin . which of those five books? >> i think it's going to be between jasmine ward steve larson. the girl who kicked the hornetse nest and i know that might sound like anun odd choice because ths is a book based in sweden. it's fiction. i think i've. reporter: it maybe five, six

times. i love that book. it speaks to my sense of justice. it speaks to my sense of even when you're looking at leviathan can take on the leviathan and win. it's going to be hard, tough young woman brutalized by her father, herut father was the secret agent for the government so they let him get away with violence against his family and she had enough so this is like the first book, the girl with the dragon tattoo. she had enough set him on fire. they commit her to an insane asylum and a ward who abuses

her. you see this story unraveling where she's getting at the heart andd soul of a corrupt government, one that defies the constitution, one that set itself up outside the government to be more important than the representative government there. an incredible journalist was helping her. she has an attorney who sees how the law can be deployed to help her and she has incredible computer skills to help. that domination -- that book speaks to me because it's about justice, what's right, righting a wrong, holding folks

accountable and abuse the trust in government. >> we have about an hour left with our guest. we'll put the phone numbers up on the screen if you like to dial in. 202 is the air quote. 748-8200. se of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. if you want to send a text message, (202)-748-8903. please include your first name and your city. we also have some social media sites we will scroll through in we also have social media sites we will scroll through in case you want to make a comment that way. louisville, kentucky. >> good afternoon doctor anderson. i'm antu african cultural schol, 71 years old and i've been listening to the show, i blocked

it out. earlier in the week, doctor anderson would be on, i wanted to speak to her but as i looked at your second book and i don't know how i don't know better of you because your outstanding but talking about your second book, something is happening now i want you to address. i see kentucky for police officers were killed, i think in kentucky in a few days before that young advocate american man stopped by not comparable but he ends up getting 90 shots fired at him, 6-inch of his body. i think his name is jaelyn walker if ourlk member correctly but the crux of what i'm asking,

i want to speak to how can under the second amendment will have the right to bear arms but when an african-american person has again and in kentucky, you don't have to have permits anymore, you just carry, not getting a holster, the ability to carry it openly. then african-american and masks with guns on their hips, then there's gun-control. what i want to do to address this, this dynamic of the white man can kill uncle amount of people what they can capture him without a scratch taken to get burger king but the flipside as you are talking about casteel, african-american man doing everything lawfully with a weaponwe as soon as the weapon s entered into the discussion with a white police officer, they gun him down and gunned this young boy, shot him 60 times but i

listen to you and i'm enjoying it, your fantastic. >> thanknk you. >> this is really what i am talking about here so with the book the second.oo you look at a near look, a young man in minneapolis in his apartment police burst through basically a no knock warrant and he has a gun by him as he's asleep on the couch. they see the gun and they say threat and shoot him dead within ten seconds. that sense of doctrine, this is what breonna taylor supposedly had and now she's dead. catherine johnson in atlanta supposedly had and now she's dead. the ability to protect your home from an invasion, no. then yes, david walker. i'm reading to that story and

the last time i read someone gunned down in a hail of 60 bullets with the group quadruple lynching in 1946 in georgia wheree two men and two women, to black men and two black women were basically executed in a hail of bullets in the corners report describes 60 bullets in each of their bodies. the kind of fear that has to generate to create that depth of violence against that young man, when you think about it, the guy who shot up the movie theater in aurora, colorado, he was taken alive in the parking lot and i think 12 dead, 70 wounded, some thing to that effect.

and dylan bruce, gunned down in church during bible study and he's taken alive. that's what i mean by white is not the threat, black is the default threat in american society. armed black exponential threat. this is why during the late 1960s in california he saw the passage of what was called the mulford act because the black panthers were openly carrying arms to police thee, police because the police were raining down violence on that black community no public entity willing to do a doggone thing about us of the black panthers had weth will police the policeo they knew the laws of the open carry, they knew the t laws abot what kinds of guns they could have. they knew the laws how far they had to stand away from the

police. the police hated it but deaths and threats and social beach they hated so they ran to don, a conservative assemblyman in the california legislature said you got to help us, find a way to make what they are doing illegal because every time you pull them over, we can't arrest them because they are not doing anything illegal. so with the help of the nra eagerly signed by republican governor ronald reagan to ban the kind of open carry the black panthers were doing you don't even have to come up the hypothetical if black folks are carrying guns, he will see gun revelation happening here. we've got a history of that. >> denise in jacksonville, florida. good afternoon. >> good afternoon. i love c-span and when i found out doctor anderson was going to be on thehe show, i set my tv up

so i can watch it. i just want to thank ms. anderson for the book she's written. i did not realize i didn't know much about black history in america until i started reading your book white rage. i was shocked. thank you so much. i'm going to buy the other three books you have because i decided i wanted to invest myself, to learn critical race theory after 2019 when black lives matter movement went on and i didn't realize how much i did not know so i want to thank you for that. >> denise, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? >> well, i will be 55 this year, i live in jacksonville, florida, i became interested in politics when i started learning finance

at theth university for my undergrad degree but when i started looking at politics seeing all the different things going on and couldn't relate to it give an educated conversation with it, that's when i started investing to learn my these things. i never knew about the code after the emancipation of slaves. i did know -- well, i didn't know myself, someone brought it to my attention about in 1901, oklahoma and i always say i'm a white people say black or terrorists but where did they want from? it seemed like people would beme successful, get envious and jealous and try to destroy that so a lot of things now that didn't make sense to me, it

makes sense now when i go to work see people acting a certain way or can't advance in a job regardless of your education and experience, it makes sense to me now. >> thank you, we'll leave it there. >> this is why i write these books. my first two books were academic but for an academic audience but my writing style is very accessible so it translated well into being able to provide rich histories, well documented rich histories for broader public because there's so much we are not taught in schools. we see that push again so in florida there is the push not to have the kindto of history that can talk about rosewood, back and talkan about florida in 1920 we basically had ethnic

cleansing because blackfoot dared to try to vote in whites burned down the black part of town, ran black folks out of there for the next five decades there were no black people in florida there. we don't know the history if we are not taught if it's not made readily available to us so that's why i do this work becausere i believe once we know our history, we have a very different conversation about where we are as a nation and what we need to do. >> you mentioned radicals was more of a scholarly book rather than accessible book, i want to read a quote from there and explain if you would. the semantic radical that made the naacp a standard for imperialism in the soviet union synonymous anticolonialism greased the way into wonderland where association disappeared

like the kat from the histories of colonial liberation -- [laughter] >> that's quite a sentence. [laughter] >> what i was dealing with d thr was this 1971 in this book came out in late 2015 a or so. since -- 2014? >> 2014. >> this 1971, the histories written about decolonization struggles, the role of african-americans in decolonization stroll, the dismantling of these empires in africa andind asia, they have championed the left, the role of the lack left andon left itself, it treated the naacp has basically water boys for truman and imperialism and colonialism. it basically said naacp turned its back in 1947 with the rise

of the cold war, turned it back on these struggles acyclic left it to the lefty . most finishing up eyes off the prize, that one last sweep through the archives because it could be that document that just load your whole book apart, you just want to make sure some going to the archives, and see aa papers and i find this letter of the somali youth league in 19492 years after the naacp turned its back this has thank you so much for all of your help in the event the italians off of us. i went what is this next excuse me? you know you've hit something and that became the foundation for bush radicals. i said i'm going to go with the naacp went and where did they

go? they took on south africa, they took on the dutch in indonesia, they took on italians for somalia, libya. i mean, they are taking on these struggles and i figured out what they were doing was dismantling the norms that made colonialism and imperialism acceptable so they took on the white man's burden, the thing the european powers walked into the meetings going might imply it is so big, bigger than your empire and of it is like i want that empire. they made being imperial power, not a badge of honor but a scarlet letter so watching how the naacp was instrumental in reshaping the norms of colonial empire of imperialism and again when we only have a narrative about the power of the left doing this work, we don't understand how changes made and

i wanted to be able to excavate that narrative because having the soviets as the avatar of all that's good and just and right in the world, no. there's a longer history there and wanted to make sure that was clear and having the naacp basically denigrate it as a toting, that's not what the historical records show. >> teaching, writing books, you also do public speaking, you get invited quite a few places. at what time is everything too much? >> we got a documentary coming out soon. [laughter] that is a great question i am asking myself but there's just so much work to do.

like i said, when we started this conversation, this democracy is in trouble, under a full-blown assault. too just go lord, i'm tired, this doesn't sit with my sense of justice, it doesn't sit with my sense of the girl who kicked the hornets nest, it doesn't fit with my sense of right and wrong and knowing the vision the right has for this nation is the vision that will send us hurling back to a place where we may never recover. we got to fight. >> middletown connecticut, you're on book tv with author carol anderson. >> thank you for taking my call. i enjoyed listening to doctor

anderson whenever i have a chance to hear her speak on c-span. like many of your previous collars, i was happy i learned she's going to be on your in-depth show today i wanted to make a couple of comments and get doctor anderson's thoughts about the regarding gun rights versus a voting rights and if i'm not mistaken, i believe there are four constitutional amendments that deal with voting rights it seems like we have numerous states trying to put up barriers and make it difficult for people to vote yet when we talk about second amendment and people's rights to keep and bear arms, people are aghast when anyone tries tos put any type f regulation or requirement in within the past week or two i think it was sad when the import ruled against the new york law

that required people to show a cause for caring 11 outside of the home to me it seems like democracy we can't put any type of regulation on the second amendment, people's rights to carry weapons yet seems we have tons trying to restrict people's rights to vote. >> i think we got the points. >> thank you for that. i had a student write a paper on dichotomy so one of the things you see here is because the 15th a minute and 19th amendment and the amendment that bans thean tax and the amendment that lowers the voting age to 18, all those have been under assault, absolute assault.

we see that in the ways that you have states removing polling places off college campuses. the way in north carolina where they divided one university between two separate congressional districts as a way to dilute the voting power of that hbcus north carolina amc. the way they have lower -- you are early voting days for prayer review in texas then with surrounding counties. we see this consistently, we see this in terms of banning of the holes where you had in florida when amendment for cancer, the re- enfranchise those with felony convictions and the courts rule after states

legislature came to her and said they're scared about that ballot coming through. after one, the state wrote saying okay, you have to pay all fines, fees ands, restitution fr your sentence to betu complete. the courts and federal courts rule not a poll except i don't have to pay my income tax to vote. i don't have to pay my property tax devote but here's a payment i have to make in order to be able to vote but even worse, they added the horrors of the literacy test where in the previous literacy test, questions were things like how many bubbles and a bar of soap? how high is up? the courtrt ruled florida does t have to tell folks how much they owe the floor can require you make payments, they don't have to tell you how much it has to be.

>> text message, hi, my name is pastor ellie brown from springfield, missouri. my question is, what would youst believe is the most important message ministers. pat: in our world today? >> i love that question. that message is what i hear from reverend william barbara that this is a god and jesus of all of us, we are here to help, all of us, we have to feel the sick. we have to feed the hungry, we have to close the enclosed. we have to do that work, is a greater humanity at stake here. when we -- one of the things i

say, the question we earlierea received about the role of white evangelical christianity? this is where i talk about folks putting their hands on god and using the power of god to put forth their own agenda instead of letting god put their hands on them and moving in that way for a better world, safer,nd kinder, much more humane world. that i think is the most powerful message getting folks out there registered to vote and getting them to the polls because that political realm is so important in terms of being able to create amu kinder and gentler america. >> blue in las vegas. thanks for holding. you're on with author carol andersonon. >> you guys are knocking me out, i love everything i've heard and

it's amazing. thank you for taking my call. i grew up in los angeles and a group up kids who have never heard of john hope franklin. my earliest memory, of what they were saying. and when louis armstrong called out said you got to do something as time went on, i am old and caring the same stories and battles is like the guy was beating his head in israel and

saying are you doing? is andth praying for peace in te middle east and praying for people to get along and just like here, 17 religions and the guy says well, how you feel? as a i feel like beating my head against the wall so 60 years later and i'm thinking nothing has really changed except awareness and knowledge and people knowing about books. right now i'm reading again, one of james baldwin's great books which is the devil fines work which takes them back to the 30s looking at betty davis eyes and seeing himself because he had a bias to. we still do it to people by the looks, how beautiful or ugly they are yet we still have this other things going. when i was ten --

>> we are going to leave it there and see professor anderson has anything she would like to add to that. >> part of what oppression and voter suppression is designed to do is make you think there's no hope, enjoys going to be this from a business, never going to get any better. why bother beat my head up against the wall? the thing is, the reason we are still in this because we are still fighting. still fighting and oppressive force because we refuse to give up, refuse to accept our subjugation and that is so important. we refuse to cede our power because it's in that fight, but struggle we continue to move

forward, continue to be able to create knowledge, continue to protect our community. when we don'ter struggle and thk this is messed up, all of our protections are dissolved. that's why we fight, we have toi know what the game is. >> text message, ask doctor anderson she's familiar with the work of professor john locke was taught at the yale law school in his book more guns, less crime. >> i'm vaguely familiar with john locke, he's one of the heroes of the kind of second amendment schools of individual rights, of guns, guns everywhere kind of deal being against some

safety revelations and as i should earlier, i haven't been pro-gun, anti- gun but what i havebu been for reasonable gun safety laws such as there's no reason to have somatic weapons in the hands of civilians on city streets, that doesn't make sense so it's common sense and not doctrinaire. >> david in tennessee text message. i agree i believe is your critique of racist violent society. we have created a pierced layer of well compensated commentators and helpers many of them at universities of critical foundation of the system who appears to be neutralized by the dominant culture. comment?

>> i thought i knew where that was headed in that it appeared in another way. i think part of what you are laying out is there are scholars who feed on the kind of euros in american society and provide cover for that. this is why having freedom within the university, freedom of exchange of ideas and the university are so important because what it does is when you whhave evidence-based scholarsh, you allow the evidence-based scholarship to do the heavy lifting of democracy and able to discern the difference between the evidence based scholarship. >> what you think on some

reports that academia has been overtaken by the left. [laughter] >> sorry. >> i guess you don't agree with that report. >> sorry. [laughter] i think that is part of the smoke and mirrors other designed to denigrate the incredible work out of these colleges and universitiesof in terms of the scholarship because if you can denigrate that scholarship you are able to create a new truth, the truth must not fact based or evidence-based and we see that a lot this is -- i've got the same when you talk to black scholars in the economy, they are not seeing this incredible left that has taken over. they are looking at entrenchment

of powers and working through that in order to do this work. >> next call comes from carol in greensburg, pennsylvania. >> hello. bu question whether any research has been done to compare the laws have changed so significantly over the years for cathe disabled. i've worked as a vision therapist for years but iran a ogprogram on 58 to 68 dollars 5% white, and saw a lot of positive things on the black community and the local black author said i should write a book but i'm not a writer. i'd love to see more research

that can prove that laws can change people'sha lives the dont think there's anything done between race and the disabled that i could find and i'm interested in your opinion on the never like to ask -- >> i apologize, we are going to leave it at the first question, there's a lot there and we will see if doctor anderson has a response. thank you for calling. >> the role of disability laws and policies are essential. one of the key movements forward that made this nationhi much moe humane of seeing the way race works in those disability policies is also essential. there's some work done, i've seen some of it, i can't recall

the names off the top i of my hd right now doing library searchers, search on your local library, finding the books there and if you have access to university library that can gete you the store so you can see the article created and produced, that will give you the foundation you need to see what is out there and where your intervention would be important. >> juanita, cincinnati. good, afternoon. >> hi. for the lady who called, what she could also try. is ala -- african-american party can help with the and national library of

medicine but the reason i called is because i like doctor anderson, i am 71 in our basement we had hundreds of my uncle josh and my father accumulated over the years, we were visited by the fbi twice but my question to doctor anderson, a comment made earliet things like that, i was wondering, i want -- how can we talk to young people and let them know this is not history,

this is life? my parents and grandparents talk to us, this is a continuum, not history. thanks. >> thank you so the question is, we consistently are stunned by lack of knowledge about tulsa, how many folks that until he saw watchmen, 15 even though tulsa happened? when teaching the civil rights movement, i start off my class going you know, how many of you have heard the civil rights movement has russia sat down, or in stood up saying i have a

dream and we all overcame? many get that incredible movement reduced to rosa and martin and overcome and we lose is massive local organizing the happened, that made movement happen someday we don't have that history, we have a sense that this should happen quickly and all you have to have is a leader. no, it takes a lot of folks a lot of hours, a lot of commitment towards knowing that history. how do we do this? of the things is i do have on the emoryth website basic brief five minute history called hidden histories of civil rights where i provided soundbites that allows teachers to use that in their classroom as a foundation for greater discussion and

knowledge. there are incredible websites out there, the children lehrman institute. i'm blinken right now. oh, civil rights movement veterans website that has the documents and narratives that can provide access to the knowledge and that's what we have to begin, facing history, ourselves, those entities provide broader access to this history that helps us understand. this is one of the things about one person, no vote. white rage and the second is italian where we are now with what happened then so can see the line, faulkner, the past isn't thehe past, it's not over,

it's not even the past or i'm blowing that line but if something like that. the past is still with us, we are still living it. >> a tweet from stuart. your books are essential to understanding the need for complete history. the backlash of 1619 project, do you know of an organized effort by academic community to preserve undiluted u.s. history? >> what i see is through the american historical association, the association for the study of african-american life and history, i am seeing those organizations are really doing the work of ensuring our history is taught, preserved.

i am seeing this in archives, archives are working overtime to make sure original documents and artifacts are still there so we can see them. at emory we have our stuart rose library. in their we s have papers, we've got to find street signs from resurrection city which was the poor people's campaign in 1968 that continued on after the assassination of martin luther king to use the archives, historical organizations doing this work but it behooves all of us when you have will board flooded with angry parents and they put it in quotes because

sometimes those folks don't even have children in thosein school. it behooves us to pay attention to that and participate in that process so that is the backlash from history and history that makes our children uncomfortable is in fact pushed back saying we must know this history. we cannot be the nation we can be if we keep telling lies about ourselves. we don't understand how we got here. >> about 15 minutes left withs our guest, carol anderson, the next call is from frank in west palm beach. >> good afternoon. i want to say the show was excellent and professor is very, very good. i disagree with almost everything she says but that being said, can she explain why

the crime rate especially murder in the black communities and major cities is so out of control? is that a white issue or totally a black issue? >> before we let you go, why do you disagree with professor anderson? >> because i'm on the right i guess, maybe that's my best way of putting it. some of the things i hear i disagree with that's about all i can say. >> do you consider yourself to be a racist in anyci way? >> never have. that being said, somebody might look me in the face and say i am but i don't believe i am. >> thank you, sir. >> the framing of the question i thought is quintessential.

why do we have all of this murder in the black communities? remember earlier when i said 80% of african-americans, over 80% of african-americans are killed by african-americans and over 80% of whites are killed by whites. what we don't get when we talk about all of this black crime, that's the narrative of anti- black that i eat out because what it's saying is blacks are inherently violent, criminal so therefore we being the white community must have protection t against this source of incredible instability and violence in american society. now what we don't get to are the issues of watching what happens

when our schools are devalued and defunded. what happens when jobs go awayo? what happens when we have this massive discrimination in our employment process? is incredible research that shows if you have an identical name of the qualifications of the same as someone who does not have a racially identifiable name so for instance, shamika chante jackson has a resume jennifer sue jones has a resume. equal qualifications, and equal will have to send in multiple resumes and letters to get the intervieww opposed to jennifer jones because of the inherent racial discrimination. so when we look at the biases in

american society that limits access jobs and housing, we have incredible studies about what it means in terms of discrimination and housing. this cremation inou healthcare discrimination in policing. when we look at all of this, when we just ask about black will killing black book and not look at why to kill whites or the kinds of structural inequalities there in american society than we are not asking for a real answer, we are asking for a soundbites answer. >> what did you think of frank saying i like everything you are saying, i'm loving the show and i disagree with everything you are saying. [laughter] i think i saw you smile out of the corner of my eye. >> i smile because i've had that before and i'm like, great. come with the evidence.

come with the facts. come with historical documentation. come with valid research studies. so i just know doesn't work but this is what i mean about the undermining of academia because what it does undermines the rigors of the research, the analysis to make how i feel on par with that and how i feel become part of policy instead of the rigors of the work. >> carolyn, tallahassee, florida. >> hello, good afternoon. cheryl and, thank you for your work and my question has to do with whether or not doctor anderson can address what appears to be -- i shouldn't say

i hate to use a lot of but how other populations in this country you are nonwhite but not black seem to pile on and promote or perpetuate stereotypes, biases against the black race and if there's any comments you can make toward that. also, if you have a book that addresses how we as a people, black people can utilize the capitalistic ideas in this country to help better our position in a better impact on the economy in this country, i hope that makes sense. >> thank you cheryl and. >> one of the things -- there was a book, i'm going to do two different books here. one how the irish became white. the irish immigrants were here,

they were treated horrifically. bottom of the barrel or close to bottom of the barrel. what he documents is what they began to learn in american society is the way into whiteness iswh antiblack so when you talk about piling on, this is what you are laying out. the other end, i'm sorry i can't remember the author's name right now but dealt with how japanese-americans, chinese-americans became model minority and that happened in the 1960s so while you have the civil rights movement happening, while you have this force thing america must become americaca, you have this backlah that puts up asian americans as the model minority as opposed to blblack folk.

what she lays out, she asked the question, how do we go from chinese exclusion act -- i hate when i brain is like that. the internment of the japanese and internment of the japanese in the 1940s, how do we go from that and the banning of all asian immigration in the 1924th national origin act, how do we goal from that kind of policy model minority in the 1960s? she laid out was that asian americans went from being not white in the 1980s, 1920s, 1940s to being not black in the 1960s when you have the civil rights movement and black power movement so that

linguistic turn that elevates -- they believe in family. asians believe in education. they believe in hard work if they are not looking for a government handout so you get these ways that attach to model minorities as a way to create this in the community of color. but one of the things we are seeing is as powerful as that iis, a british colonialism thi, divide and conquer, one of the things you see, this is why i love human rights, on human rights frame, we are in this together. we all work together. we see this with the coalition of workers in florida deals with tomato growers and in this organizationd , mobilization of

workers you saw on a human rights ring you had african-americans, latinos, asian americans, whites all working together to improve the etquality of life and working conditions in tomato fields florida so when folks would put them apart like no, no that's what becomes so essential and this is where i go back to reverend william barber, the movement he's creating is multiracial, multiethnic, multi- religious because that's where the power lies. >> darrell from the u.s. virgin islands. you're on with author carol anderson. >> good afternoon, ms. anderson. i have a question, i am studying

from the early 1900s to the 70s, are you familiar with harrison and the new movement in his work? your book about radicals, i felt the naacp dropped the bomb in their work but when you explain the work they have done and people of color inside the u.s., it gave me another perspective on themiv but i think currentlyn right opinion they have dropped the bomb in their efforts being able to affect real change for people of color in c america. >> we are going to leave it there but i did want to ask you, is your research personal or professional? >> personal right now.

i wish i had a teacher like her. i went to morgan state and i wish i had a teacher like her at the time when i went. >> thank you for calling in. >> kind of sort of, to beg for me to be specific because i really focused in on the 1940s and taking it through the 1960s so where the focus of my work look that, naacp, civil rights congress, national negro congress, counsel in african affairs, those were the organizations following through in my work. american committee on africa, seeing those organizations and how they were deploying their strengths, how they were succumbing to weaknesses is

essential for me in terms of laying out this struggle for decolonization. >> six books down, is there another in the works? >> is one of my head. [laughter] >> you want to share with us? we will do group therapy with you? [laughter]r] >> what i'm thinking about is a book i am entitling the ties that bind in silence. african-american response, the political violence in haiti, congo and nigeria. 1960 to 1970. in my initial research, one of the things i found was okay, let me give you a broader concept. but i am intrigued by i organizations that say they are therefore the people, to protect the people and then they don't. what are the forces that created that? then one of the forces that

created them to move? but i saw haiti and congo and looking at five different organizations, liberal organizations, i'm not seeing them really engage violence raining down in haiti and congo. why, why the silence? black folks are getting slaughtered. >> where can you get that idea? >> it was beeping stunned at the silence because of the same time when katie is erupting, and this

violence, very little but what i am seeing is in south africa happening in these groups are all over south africa, to massacre the rain found. i went, they get the protection of black folks, they get how they have a blood pit fight for this. why not here? and i see them engaged in the civil war nigeria so then i asked, why within the same decade? what changed that caused this level of w engagement that i didn't see in the first two? >> the last two hours ourtw guet has been author and professor carol anderson. three of her most recent books whiteof rage, unspoken truth of racial divide one person, no vote. how voter suppression is

destroying our democracy and hec most recent book, the second a fatallyuns in unequal america". thank you for your time. >> thank you so much, this was wonderful. ♪♪ >> american history tv saturday on c-span2 exploring the people and events that tell the american story. 10:00 a.m. eastern, grammy award winner and public enemy cofounder chuck d. ...

>> in the history of pulitzer prizes very few winners turned out these awards. one of those who did was the famous armenian-american a writer from the 30s and 40s. he turned down the pulitzer for the drama called the time of your life. he said he was opposed in principle to awards and the arts in such arts awards officiate and embarrass art at its very source. he has written a lot about his father and his relationship. we asked him to talk about his book last rites, the death of william --.

>> host: is such a privilege to sit down with you to talk about your book and the first thing i want to ask is how do you approach your role as a writer in particular a political writer? >> guest: the first thing a political writer ought to be aware of the his politics is a big part of most people's lives and shouldn't be part of a healthy society. a score