impact of the second amendment. host: carol anderson, it is july 3, 2022. >> july 3rd, 2022 what is the 1776 celebration mean to you? >> it means that we are so precariously perched on the democracy we are heralding on july 4th, 1776. peerless time. as perilous as it was with the continental army and getting their butts kicked when the

south attacked fort sumter and launch the civil war we were in perilous times when our democracy is hanging by a thread. host: why do you say that quick. >> we have the attack that's happening right now in american democracy it is the assault on voting rights. the sea attack is to wash away the teaching of real american history. thean air attack is the loosening of gun laws. we have a narrative that the insurrection was legitimate political discourse. seeing there was all of this violence and the threat raining down on election workers and officials. when you look at what is happening with voting, education system, the narrative we come to understand this nation. when we look at the deployment

of violence to look as a tool of politics, we're under the full-blown effect embedded by us supreme court and embedded by a gerrymandered state legislatures. you are in trouble and the a hope is that we always fought back. we knew the democracy was worth the fight. we have to gear up again and fight for the democracy and fight for this nation. host: as a historian at emory university there has been some macomparisons made to pre- civil war times. can you see that are make that comparison? >> yes.na in ways you get to separate nations and two very different

directions. one are the states citizens humanity to believe that people have rights that there is this thing called democracy and on the other hand those o who have it is a democracy with a labor pool that has generated enormous resources and what that small strata has done this has convinced a larger number that they can get the benefits of the massive set of resources coming up from the vast labor pool that's not how this works you have a hyper racialized democracy with a small strata r

with full blown rights it is multiracial,, religious and vibrant. host: those two visions of what the nation is and can be is the collision course. host: today i want to focus mostly on three of your books including one person no vote. white rage and the second. they all seem to have come from an incident. tell me if this is a fair comparison one person no vote, 2018 georgia gubernatorial race. white rage michael brown and then is that a fair way to put it? >> almost one person one vote emanated out of the 2016

heelection that was that in nablus did was ignore the fact that the protection of the voting rights act in the supreme court get it in 2013 t and invite you what about the

enhanced voter id law? >> thank you. you have alabama for instance said you must have a government issued photo id. but the public housing id does not count as government issued. 71 percent in alabama are african-american and the legal defense fund that it was the only government photo issued id they has of the nation down the dmv in those counties. when the one government photo issued id does not count and then you say i will get a drivers license but then the bureaus are shut down and you

have to go 50 miles to go get a drivers license.0 but if you don't then how you go the 50 miles or 100 miles round-trip? public transportation is ranked 48th in the nation for public transportation and alabama. it's not like you can just hopca on public transportation. that's what i mean discriminatory. host: what got white rage. >> i was teaching faculty how to write for a public audience op-ed. we had a late workshop that dana had the tv on and the news was blaring it didn't matter which news because ferguson missouri was on fire.

the pendants all say look at the black rage who brings up where they live black folks do it doesn't matter which channel i had on it was the same narrative. i have lived in missouri 13 years. i found myself shaking my head. no. this is white rage not black rage. that is how i came up that we are so focused on the flames we miss the kindling and the policies that are in place that generate that exclusion. education. that's what we do with housing. that's what we do with the criminal justice system. that's what we do with voting rights.

with all of the key fundamental basics of life in america and the policies that systematically undermined them. and thenn to say look at the black folks burning up where they live without the white rage underneath it. host: this is quote white rage is not physical violence that works its way through the courts legislatures in a range of government bureaucracies. inevitably it is the blackpa companion. >> yes to bee the historian to see the pattern after the civil war with emancipation. but instead a massive backlash happened that we try to reinstall slavery by another name and then have andrew johnson systematically

undermined as well as the enforcement act dealing with reach one —- racial discrimination and segregation in public facilities going after white domestic terrorism. you have the entities the president of the united states and these executive orders to undermine that advancement of what freedom meant, that is white rage and i will carry that through the great migration the brown's decision the civil rights movement through the election of barack obama. host: with the brown decision

you talk it wasn't fully implemented in some places like san antonio. >> absolutely. >> yes we have this massive disparity in a neighborhood san antonio overwhelmingly mexican-american and african-american they were taxed at the highest level allowed but it still only get $21 per head for student but the edgewood district a wealthy white suburb basic tax themselves at a much lower rate because of property values they could do hundreds of dollars per capita. the mexican american parents sued to say this is

fundamentally an equal we are taxing ourselves at the highest rate that because of public policy that has devalued our property, ween cannot generate enough income or tax dollars adequately fund the quality education for our children. he wasrt supreme court said equality does not require equal funding so that disparity that you see that and now was blessed on high from the us supreme court. host: carol interest in your most recent book is the second. race and ends in the fatally unequal america. 42million african-americans in the state and according to recent statistics 25 percent are gunowners. doubled in the last ten or 20 years. >> i'm not surprised.

when i look at in the second is access to guns anti- blackness drove the second amendment. regardless of the legal status of african-americans enslaved, the free black and the ones that were between emancipation. obama african-americans. regardless of that legal status meeting the progress we have made but the fear of black people has created a crisis driving the second amendment is when you begin to think about the terror that has rained down on the society

you saw the white right wing militia during the obama presidency in the rise of white gun ownership duringsa obama's presidency. then we had trump and you saw the embrace of white nationalism and supremacist. and because of the technology in police violence that rains down on black folks. african-americans doing what they have consistently done to say we have to defend ourselves nobody will come to help us. host: was thiswe a book you thought you would right? was it something you thought about for a while? >> no, actually. it actually was the killing of philander castillo. dealing with african civil

rights and when he was gunned down and by a police officer because he had a license to carry that is why he was gunned down. the nra went virtually silent on this kindling simply because he had a gun so pundits are asking don't african-americans have second amendment rights? that's a great question and that is a question i have not explored yet. so i went hunting went back to the 17th century. host: what did you find? >> i found the enslaved in the free blacks in the laws coming through to try to do with the fear to protect the white community from the enslaved

and the free blacks and the key element in that is disarmament with the banning of access to guns. so you see the laws coming out of virginia and south carolina thou shall not have guns for those who were enslaved and free blacks. and you saw this coming through in the constitutional ratification convention where you get to virginia and they say were not sure about this constitution thing but why? one of the key elements you have patrick henry and george mason saying this militia in order to keep the enslaved in check james madison has put control over the federal

governmente under congress can we cannot rely on the feds to defend us. we are folks from pennsylvania and massachusetts they are not here to defend us. we need to have the protectionel or we will be left defenseless. after ratification they threatened to have a new constitutional convention and madison was scared added his that jeepers and that is a political term but that gave the federal government to enhance the powers but there was a fear federal government was to powerful.

but when you think of the bill of rights and freedom of religion the right to a speedy and fair trial and not to have cool and unusual punishment to have the militia and security of a free state? that was the outlier. that is basically to say do not hold the new constitutional convention you are protected and the militia is safe. host: we surprised whatt you found about the second amendment? >> yes. i really was. that discussion today it's about the individual right to bear arms or was this really about a militia? so we get a binary coming out

of that heller decision and then the mcdonald decision or is this about the the militia? but that binary argument is irrelevant because the foundation of the second amendment is the fear of blackness and black people it is criminal as a threat and dangerous and violent and the white community has to be protected. i said wow. that's when things began to make in its own weird way. so if i walk through the book working in the 20th and 21st century, to see the ways that we understand citizenship to

gun rights, open carry. and then defend your home against the invader. [laughter] i lost my point. but those doctrines become foundational. stand your ground. those doctrines that become foundational if not with african-americans then they don't hold so i have examples in there like a 12 -year-old a boy playing in a park by himself in cleveland with a toy gun. granted it did not have the red tip on it but ohio was an openn carry state. 's long as you're not threatening anyone you can

carry your weapon openly. piece rolled up in into seconds they shot him down. he was dangerous. he was a threat and was a juxtaposed threat to rittenhouse who has the ar 15 in kenosha wisconsin with the black lives matter protest in the please say we are so glad you are here. do you want some water? it is hot then shoots three people and two of them she kills and walks back toward the police officers with his hands up. they don't see a threat or danger. they are not afraid. that speaks volumes about the second amendment. host: carl anderson were you in any shape or form a gun

person prior? >> no. [laughter] it wasn't like i was pro- or anti- gun just fear. the discussion of castillo for the discussion to african-americans have the rights?

you can hunt with the air 15 need the deer afterwards. ar 15 are meant for hunting people. the basic logic. host: welcome back to the tv in-depth studio the first time in two and a half years we had them back with a guest in the studio. we are pleased emory professor and author carol anderson. you have heard some of the topics we will talk about today. your participation is key on booktv.

carol anderson how long have you been at emory? >> i got their 2009 fromer university of missouri. i was there 13. years. host: why did you transplant yourself to georgia? >> emery is an amazing university. was an opportunity to grow and thrive and to be in a place surrounded by scholars who are asking the tough and hard questions and seeking the

answers and then there is atlanta which is an amazing city. host: missouri. columbia missouri. atlanta. where did you start life? >> columbus ohio. actually my father was in the military. i was born on an army base we lived in germany several years and then when he retired he then moved to columbus ohio because he wanted my brother to go to ohio state. that's why did a lot of my growing up in columbus ohio.ho host: where did you go to school? >> undergrad and masters at miami university in oxford ohio phd is from the ohio state university. host: why did you decide to

become a scholar with a phd? >> i love learning. always books in her home. always and discussions the house about what was happening in the world and politics and injustice and it was me trying to figure this thing out. i had wonderful mentors along the way that help me to figure out how to become a scholar professor ingle who was my commonwealth professor at miami and i know this will be hard to believe then to say can i see you after class and then i go and think i'm getting ready to be thrown out of the class and then i walk

up after class. do you ever think of going to graduate school? i said yes but i have no idea how to get there and he said come with me having mentors like that to help shepherd me through an arcane opaque - - arcane process that natural love of learning reading the world book encyclopedia from a to z and then all over again. host: what do you teach at emory? period the civil rights movement 20 centuries african-american history genocide and human rights policy and i teach the black athlete in american society. and at one point i taught code

foreign-policy. host: back to georgia you have a black athlete running for senate. >> yes we do. so what we really have is a deployment of representation that was not represented - - representative. the way they tapped alan keyes to run against obama and it was the same thing with herschel walker the star out of the university of georgia let's put him up against rafael warnock. and what we are seeing is someone who has a history of violence someone who consistently lies about his

credentials and someone who has not thought through policies so the reason he is there is because he is black not because he can do the heavy lifting to be a us senator. it was a cynical ploy. so the answer he gave after the killings in texas and said that then there is the disinformation so what we need to have is a department looking at young man looking at young women on social media. constitutional rights and that has been corrupted you have these little soundbites and then strong

them together?et i know i need to say something about the bible and that'se what we got but that was not policy or thoughtful but in fact it is insulting to think that black folks will win that race because he is black. that's not enough. >> is a hard to get in at that point on a sunday morning? can anyone come in quick. >> i'm sure. it is bedrock foundational to the history of black atlanta and civil rights movement it

is reverend doctor king preached and that is ebenezer. host: a lot of news reports indicated the 2022 georgia primary elections after theaw georgia legislature change the voting lies that there was good turnout. >> i will liken that how suppressive can it be if we have great turnout? at what it doesn't the narrative is civil society all of the work of the new georgia project and black voters matter and of the naacp or the aclu and asian americans advancing justice. all of those groups trying to

move the folks above and beyond and across the barriers that the georgia legislature put in place. i liken it to somebody tries to rob you but they don't succeed are able to fend them off. there was a fact that they could not be successful that they try to rob you. they tried but you have a group of folks from that person that was making you so when you look it is a mugging of georgia voters and is predicated on the big lie of trump of massive voter fraud

that no one can prove because it didn't happen. and it is predicated for how do we stop with an incredible turnout and the 2020 election and the 2021 runoff and the senatorial runoff? black voter turnout was almost 92 percent. when you are in a democracy you embrace that turnout we did something right how do we continue on with this? unless you're going fresh air and then vote and say how do we stop this? host: the last question before we get to calls in all your books with the subject of human rights plays a role. it doesn't permeate

necessarily but you bring it up and weave it in. why is that? >> it is so foundational for me. it was my first book my dissertation eyes off the prize and i ask the question how occurred all of the blood and courage and all of the effort lead to an america where the life expectancy of african-americans and with that maternal mortality? with massive wealth gaps thatul shaped the way they can move through society how can the civil rights movement that we harold mrs. the unfinished

business of democracy handling the business. how could all of that with the american we're in? that we had to civil rights movement not a human rights movement. how did that happen? you had no complex how that he gets civil-rights before he has human rights? but what we found you have the naacp and w eb the boys saying the same thing when generation earlier. so what could create that level of community as malcolm was the first to say it? and the power of the cold war of anti- communism that defines human rights and the right to healthcare the rightca

to education. those are the things the soviets want and if you are real patriot you don't want that and then to systematically target african-americans and african-american organizations by the human rights platform to the point it became politically safer and safer does not mean safe. c we know violence rains down. but it became politically safer to argue on a civil-rights platform. what could be more american than the bill of rights? then talk about the right to housing and healthcare and

employment. the right to leisure. looking at the universal declaration of human rights because if you were caught cast as the cost list organization with the right wing politics so it deals with those truncated rights and the residuals of what that looks like and we live through this america. host: i promise that was last question before calls a couple more came to mind but we will hear from leo in the bronx you are on with professor carol anderson. >> >>caller: i enjoy seeing your lectures to college students. stacy abrams changed her position. she used to be against the idea of requiring people when they vote to present id.

i heard recently she changed her position. can you explain why? >> part of what you are seeing that photo ids are reasonable. everybody has an id and we do have voter fraud. voter fraud. voter fraud. is not too much to ask have people show a 90 to protecton democracy and our election. 70 percent of americans think voter fraud happens and 50 percent believe it is regularly. so it allows for the

discussion we have got to haves. laws that protect voting rights. a minute runs up against voter id and most americans believe again please to a middle-class and theis racial discrimination in the way the states deployed voter id. it felt like a battle too far. host: alexandria louisiana. good afternoon. >>caller: good afternoon c-span and happy upcoming fourth of july. ms. carol anderson i am enjoying this. i see you are a history professor.

i was a democrat for a long time. i am african-american but joins the republican party because of different things the democrats were doing. my parents were kennedyhe democrats but they were republicans first because the republican party. but i believe that our constitution and it is not a democracy it is supposed to be a representative republic a constitutional republic i agree on racism when castillo got murdered and after the civil war the nra try to teach black people to have gun ownership to protectse themselves i don't know if you

know the history of the democratic party they were the ones that came up with the jim crow laws. host: very quickly why are you a republican today? >>caller: because the democrats have lied to us. they don't want us to have guns. we kill ourselves with the g gang members and drug dealers. we all need to be armed up.mu host: thank you very much professor has somebody ways that point to you in class? >> one is what the democrats are in after the civil war the democrats were the party of white supremacy and a bashing. d

but the southern strategy and with ther summarize of african-americans because african-americans were moving out of the jim crow south. you have the republicans saying there is gold in the hills of the white resentment you see it being deployed. and 52 and 54 and particularly with richard nixon and 68 and reagan in 80. and because of the southern strategy with the suspense oftr

anti- civil rights as there mantra. what we hear about is black on black crime. 80 percent of people are killed by black people ove' 80 percent of white people aren killed by white people. but we don't have the narrative of white on white crime. why is that? sometimes we have to ask the next question. washington dc and chicago to implement gun safety laws and then you have the us supremeel court with the heller decision to undermine the safety laws and then seeing guns flooding

into those communities again. this is why after taxes you have governor abbott saying whathi about chicago? because that is the trope of black violence by republicans. host: a text message from kelvin in baltimore. >> how does the evangelical right play a part in fueling our divide and our society. presumably or presently and its influence with the supreme court in thefe federalist society? >> the white role of evangelical christianity it really became a force in the seventies and to cold in the eighties and has. there is a wonderful book

called the long southern strategy by angie maxwell that was set the three pillars one of those is racism. and that is the white evangelicals. and the role that it plays in the domination of the republican party and it is shaping those policies. so we see this in the recent scotus decision were mainly spending only secular schools and not just secular schoolsn but these white evangelicals to say we want the public money to. and then to say they have to do this.

and then the coach was kneeling on the 50-yard line. and then the supreme court ignoring the evidence that this is a public school and a public event on a public field you have the power of theye coach around his players kneeling in a christian prayer. ask yourself if main happens to have the school of satanic devotion are they eligible for public funds? and that narrowing definition of what is religious. we are so sick of hearing about the separation of church and state but that is the first amendment. and so much of what we are seeing in america and used to justify a policies that are

abhorrent to this democracy. host: up next p.m. pamela from maryland. >> hi. thank you for taking my call it's an honor to speak with you. i am married 36 years african-american mom of twowo african-american sons and a husband. you have alluded to this already but can you speak to the ideology of the confederacy and the ideology was states rights that were sued or was a's dodge supporter and then the confederate states for their civil government to be that all in power.

and then to guarantee but the federal government to have 40 acres andnd a mule and in the slave owners are given money. and those with $300 to that effect but this is the undercurrent today and the republicans began to embrace the states rates ideology and i thought they were dixiecrat now embracing the rights of the federal government to protect african-americans and others so can use the how we still fight the confederacy and the ideology? host: before we get an answer can you tell us about

yourself? you live in a very nice community one of the wealthiest majority black communities in america. have you face some of the issues that you talk about? >>caller: i am a public servant and the state employee and i work for young ladies that are on medical assistance and the undocumented that don't have healthcare and we provide healthcare to make sure they have access. i am a public servant but i was raised by my maternal grandmother. so i believe in giving back but so this is stuff that i read about. i never thought i was living in a time when my rights were assaulted. my family came from alabama.

my father was raised in georgia but is just mind-boggling. gi>> i was giving a talk in virginia and one of the things in germany the d not see program we never had the deacons federate see program to dismantle in its entirety. instead we started erecting statues to robert e. lee, jefferson davis. in our text box the lost cause becomes a heroic event and

when you begin to think of what that means the way our children learn and what they understand so slavery really wasn't that bad you have the benevolent owners and the enslaved were fed well and clothed and had housing. the v.a. mean nasty north trying to impose its will on good honest hard-working noble folks. and that becomesth the narrative in our textbooks in the 1970s, think of the battles recently to overtake because in the spaces what that is telling us is who we should be honoring. we have these tectonic plates underneath of american society

and the confederacy they are good. and think of bill o'reilly who after michelle obama talks about living in a house built by the enslaved and on his show he says it wasn't that bad they were house and well fed and well clothed. so how bad could it be? when you get that coming in in the 21st century that is the thing wee have not dealt with. and then how they are demanding a revision of the curriculum so to make them feel uncomfortable it does not. so we don't talked about

slavery. i sought in texas they are thinking about renaming slavery involuntary relocation. when you can create euphemisms but when you don't deal with the reality of what this nation has been through, and deal with the slavery or the reality of genocidal violence against people or xenophobia and in tight immigration policy.wi you don't deal but when you don't deal with any of thoseu realities you don't understand america and you do a disservice to america. america is an aspirational nation. we hold these truths to be

self-evident. to make those self evident is the key piece of american history. when you treat the aspirations of so but that's what happened with the embrace of the confederacy and the whitening up of the whitewashing of slavery. i read member i got a letter from one i was supporting come visit the plantations in mississippi to see true, southern charm. i thought what mass is this?no i sent them a note back and said that he would no more harold a tour of auschwitz as a testament to find german nearing the end anything other

than what they are. a place where human beings were bred and born and beaten without pay. they were tortured. and then you try to pretty that up? you defile american citizen so looking at the defiling of american history by not dealing with the confederacy and how it could maintain its power through the southern democrats and now the republicans. host: should those plantations be maintained as a historic site quick. >> yes theyma should. and they should be maintained the same way auschwitz is

maintained. you need to have accurate history to lay out what but then to talk about those battles over monticello, thomas jefferson's place. and prior to that then you think where was sally hemmings? . . . .or it is absolute essential for understanding this nation.

we went next call for carol anderson comes from nay and mesa, arizona. >> hello. this is a wonderful show. i never watched c-span i happen to turn the tv on. then i just got intrigued. i am 60, a black man, i live in mesa, arizona. i had returned back to school back when i was 47. en entrepreneurship. but to go into the class i had to write in english paper to get accepted into the university. and so i basically picked a topic of the disproportionate incarceration ofer african-american mail.

ages of 18 -- 35 protocol the paper bound by law. and as i was listening to you, you are a teacher of a masters program at emory, is that correct? yes i'm a professor at emory university in the department of african-american studies. and i have history students. we went and your chair. works my grandfather was a historian. i wanted to get my masters but i wasn't sure what i wanted toi . i turned your show on and i heard you talking. so my question is for those who might have the same question, does that offer any online masters programs? see what thank you dates. >> guest: none of my classes are

online. during the height of covid, we went to online classes for the kind of protection of our students and the faculty. but we are now back in the classroom. sue and carol anderson, we always ask authors what their r favorite books are for and wht they are currently reading for it and what you go to what you said about currently reading. we usually get specific titles assist quote from i an e-mail, a bazillion. i'm a judge in the nonfiction category for the national book awards. your books have been listed for that as well. looks when he reading? a bazillion books. they're coming in, i'm goingth through them. they are fascinating. it is really intriguing singth

authors arrestable different a types of subjects across-the-board progress is your first set of being a judge? works of judge for the national book award. i was a judge lasted for the pulitzer. stuart how many books we have to read before the ceremony in november? parts we get into more between 600 -- 700 books, a bazillion. [laughter] and joseph plowing through them to really make sure were making really good choices. it went favorite books professor carol anderson. in thomas mann's even worse than it looks, steve larson, the girl who kicked the hornet's nest. bauer, world without mercy. and william derek t and

christian from here till quality. which of those five books you are too speak to? i think it is going to be somewhere between jasmine warren and steve larson. the girl who kicked the hornet's nest. know thatt might sound like a really odd choice this is a book based in sweden may be read five or six times. i love that book. it speaks to my sense of justice. it speaks to my sense of you can take on and when. it's going to be hard. it's going to be tough. the story deals with the young

woman who was brutalized by her father. but her father was based a secret agent for the government. until they let him get away with this of violence against his family. b and she had had enough. this was like the first book the girl with the dragon tattoo. and so she had had enough. she sets him on fire. they commit her to an insane asylum. then she has award who abuses her. a trustee who abuses her. you see this story unraveling where she is giving up the heart and soul of a corrupt government. one that defies the constitution. one that had setp itself up outside the government to be more important than that representative government that was there.

and she takes them on. she has incredible journalist was helping her. she has an attorney who sees how the law can be deployed to help her. and she has incredible computer skills to help herself. and that combination, that book speaks toau me. again it is about justice. it is about what is right. it's about holding folks itaccountable that abuse the tru in government. abuse the trust of thest people. we would have been our left with our guest carol anderson paired with the phone numbers up on the screen 748-8200 east and central time zone (202)748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. if you want to send a text

message intended to 027-48-8903. please include your first name and your city if you wed. we also have some social media sites willme school through okay short to make a comment that way. louisville, kentucky hi. >> good afternoon dr. anderson. i admit african cultural scholar and i have been listening to the show. i blocked it out dr. anderson is going to be our home and i wanted to speak to her. dr. anderson, as i looked at your second book and forgive me, i do not know how i don't know more of you and better of you because you are outstanding. talking about your second book i'm sort your fourth book it's the second period something that's happening now that i want you totoyo address.

therefore police officers killed anything gives easternle kentuc. on also, a few days before that a young african-american man was stopped by police. he was not comfortable with them and he fled. ended up getting 90 shots fired at him. sixty entered his body. i think his name was jayland walker if i remember correctly. what i'm asking is i want you to speak to how could come under the second amendment, we all have a right to bear arms? but wouldn't african-american person has p a gun and even in kentucky you don't have permits anymore. i'm thinking of getting a holster and a gun and carrying it openly. that will have gun-control deceit african americans at mask walking up guns on their hips. then we will have gun control. what i wanted you to address is

the whole dynamic of a white man x amount of people. t somehow they can capture without a scratch. then take them to get burgernd king. but on the flip side, you are talking about an african-american man doing everything lawfully with a weapon. soon the weapon gets entered into the discussion with the white police officer. they gun him down. they gun the young boy down, shot them 60 times. i listen to you and i enjoy it and you are fantastic. we went thank you. >> guest: this is really what i am talking about here. with the book,he the second perd who was a young man up in minneapolis who is inn his apartment on the police burst through. they basically had a no knock warrant britt has a gun by him as he's asleep on the couch.ey

they see the gun, they say threat and they shoot him dead within ten seconds. this is what breonna taylor supposedly had and now she is dead. this is what catherine johnson owatlanta supposedly had and now she is dead. the ability to protect your home from an invasion, no. and then yes, jaylandnd walker. i am reading through that story and the last time i read someone gunned down in a hail of 60 bullets was the quadruple lynching in 1946 in monroe, georgia. were two men and two women are basically executed and a hail of bullets. the coroner's report describes 60 bullets in each of their bodies.

the kind of fear that has to generate to create that depth of violence against that young man, when you think about it the guy who shot up the movie theater in colorado, he was taken alive in the parking lot. and i think 12 dead, 70 wounded, something to that effect. and dylan guns down nine folks in church during bible study. and he is taken alive. that is so named by white to stop the threat. black is the default threat in american society. armed black isn't exponential threat. this is why during the 1960s in california he that is how the

passage of the mulford act. that's because the black panthers openly carrying arms to police the police. d the police were raining down violence on that blackc community. there is no public entity that was willing to do a doggone thing about it. so the black panthers said we will police the police. and so they knew the laws about open carryla per the new the las about what kind of guns they could have. they knew the laws about how far they had to stand away from the police. the police hated it, from the depths come the brats, the height of the social reach they hated it. it was a conservative assembly man in the california legislature that said you've got to help us you've got to find a way to make what they're doing llillegal. because every time we pull them over we can't arrest them because they are not doing anything illegal.

with the help of the nra. eagerly signed republican governor ronald reagan to ban the kind of open carry the black panthers were doing.l you do not even have to come up with a hypothetical of black folks are carrying guns are going to see gun regulation happening here. we've got aha history of that. went denise in jacksonville, florida good afternoon. >> i love c-span. when it found out dr. anderson was going to be on the show i set my tv up so i could watch it. i want to thank ms. anderson for the book she has written. i did not realize i did not know much about black history in america until i started reading your book white rage. i was just shocked. thank you so much. i'm going to buy the other three books that you have out there.

because i had decided i want to invest in myself to learn critical race theory after 2019 when black lives matter movement went on. and i just did not realize how much i did not know. i just want to thank you for that. cant you tell us a little bit about yourself? >> guest: yes i will be 65 this year. i live in jacksonville, florida. i became interested in politics when i started learning corporate finance at the university for my undergrad degree. when he started looking at politics and seeing all of the different things that were going on and could not really relate to it or really could not give us an educated conversation with that is when i really started investing in myself to learn these things. i was just shocked i never knew about a black coat after the emancipation of the slave.

i did know -- i didn't knowel myself someone else brought it to my attention, about rosewood, florida and oklahoma, and i always say white people say black people will tear up stuff but where did they learn it from? every time it seems like black people would be successful, white people get envious and jealous and tried to destroy that. and so now a lot of things that did not make sense to me, it makes sense now. want to go to work and i see people acting certain ways or if you can't advance on the job regardless of your education anl experience. now it makes sense to me. so it thank you man will leave it there. too this is where i write this book spray first two books were academics books they are both for an academic audience.

my writing style is very accessible. it translated really well well documented rich histories for broader public. there is so much we are not taught in schools. we are seeing that push again. in florida there is the push not to have the kinds of history that talk about rosewood. they can talk about florida in 1920 where you basically have ethnic cleansing because of black folks dared to try to vote. and why to burn down the black part of town, ran a black folks out of there. and for the next five decades there were no black people there. we do not know that history. if we are not taught, if it is not made readily available to us. until that is why do this workla

pretty really believe once we know our history we are having a very different conversation as a nation of what we need to do. so what you mention the radicals are more of a scholarly book rather than accessible book. want to read a a quote from thee and have you explain it if you would. semantic rabbit holesma amid nap a standard fare for imperialism and the soviet union synonymous with anticolonialism grease its way into a wonderland with association disappeared like the cheshire cat from the histories of colonial liberation. [laughter] she went congratulations on that. >> guest: what i was dealing there was this 1971 comments book came out in 2015 or so. 2014?

since 1971 the histories that have been written about decolonization struggles the role of african-americans in the decolonization struggles. the dismantling of these empires in africa and asia, they all have championed the left. the role of the black left, the role the left itself. i have treated the naacp as basically water boards for treatment and imperialism and colonialism. they said the naacp turned its back in 1947 with the rise of the cold war. turned its back on the struggles i'm basically left it to the left. one is finishing up eyes off the prize one sweep of the archives blows your whole book apart. i'm going to the archives the naacp papers and i find this

letter of the somali youth league in 1949. two years after the naacp has turned its back. and it says thankal you so much for all of your help and the un and keeping the italians off ofa us. i went what is this? excuse me? you know you have hit something. that became the foundation for bourgeois radicals. going to go wherever the naacp and lord did they go. south africa for the check on the dutch in indonesia. they took on the italians for somalia, libya. they are taking on the struggles. i figured out what they were doing was dismantling the normon that made colonialism and imperialism acceptable pride they took on the white man's burden for the european powers

are to walk into a media sync my empires so big. my empire is bigger than yourr empire. they may be being an imperial power not a badge of honor the scarlet letter. and so watching how the naacp was instrumental in reshaping the norms of colonial empires, of imperialism. again we only have a narrative about the power elect to do this work we do not understand how changes made. and i want to be able to excavate that narrative. have the soviets as the avatars all that is good and just in the world, no. no. there's a longer history there i wanted to make sure that was clear. heavenly naacp denigrated as a

toady that is not what the historical record shows. teaching, writing books, you also do public speaking as well. you get invited quite a few places correct? >> yes, i do yes, i do. at one point is everything too much? >> you got a documentary coming out soon. that is a great question that i am asking myself. there is just so much work to do. like i said only started this conversation this democracy is in trouble. it is under a full-blown assault. and to justt go lord, i am tire, just does not fit with my sense of justice. it does not fit with my sense of the girl who kicked the hornets nest. dit doesn't fit with my sense f right and wrong.

and knowing, and knowing that the vision that the right has for this nation is a vision that will send us hurtling back to a place were we may never recover. we have got to fight. we went keith middletown connecticut you are on book tv with author carol anderson. >> caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i enjoyed listening to dr. anderson whenever i've had a chance to hear her speak on c-span. unlike many of your previous colors, i was very happy when i learnedon she was going to be on your in-depth show today. ani wanted to make a couple of comments and get doctor anderson's thoughts about a the. regarding gun rights versus voting rights. and if i am not mistaken, i believe therefore constitutional amendments that deal with the

voting rights. and it seems like we have numerous states trying to put up barriers or make it more difficult for people to vote. and yet only talk about the second amendment and people's rights to keep and bear arms, people are aghast when anyone tries to put any type of regulation or any requirement. just within the past weekk or to i think it was very sad when the supreme court i think ruled against the new york law the required people to show a cause for carrying a weapon outside of the home. so to me it feels like a bit of hypocrisy we cannot put any type of regulation on the second amendment, people's rights to carry weapons. yet, we have tons of states trying to restrict people'seo rights to vote. >> keith i think we've got thank

you sir. >> guest: thank you for that. in fact they had a student write a paper on that very dichotomy. and so one of the things you see here, is because the 15th amendment and the 19th amendment and the amendment that bans the poll tax and the amendment that lowers the voting age to 18, all of those have been under assault. absolute assault. we see that for instance in the ways that you have states removing for instance polling places off of college campuses. the way in i north carolina whee they divided one university between two separate congressional districts as a way to dilute the voting power of that hbc you north carolina.

the weight they had lowered fewer early voting days for prairie view, and m in taxes than they had was surrounding wallen county. we see this consistently. we see this in terms of the banning of the poll tax. you had in florida, when amendment four came to the re- c enfranchised those who had felony convictions. you had the courts rule up to the state legislature came through and said they were scared about that ballot admission coming through. after it won the state wrote in line saying okay you have to pay all fines, fees, and restitution order for your sentence to be complete. the federal courts ruled that it is not a poll tax except i don't have to pay my income tax to vote. i don't have to pay my property tax devotes. but here isen a payments that i

have to make in order to vote. even worse they added the horrors of the literacy test. in the previous glittery tests were questions like how many bubbles and a bar of soap? how high is up? here the court ruled florida does not have to tell folks o hw much they owe. so florida it can require you make payments. it doesn't have to tell you how much that payment has to be. swint text message hi dr. anderson my name is pastor ellie brown. i am from springfield, missouri. my question is, what would you believe is the most important message that ministers should speak to in our world today? >> guest: that message. i love that question. that message is what i'm hearing from reverend william barber. this is a god and a jesus of all

of a period that we are here to help all of us. that we have to feed the hungry. we have to clothe the uncharted. we have to do that work. there is a greater humanity at stake here. when we in fact -- one of the things i say the part of the question we earlier received about the role of white evangelical christianity is that this is where i talk about folks putting their hands on god. and using the power of god to put forth their own agenda. instead of letting god put their hands on them and then moving in that way. for a better world, for a safer,

a kinder, a much more humanee world. that, i think is the most powerful message.gi and getting folks out there ready to vote and getting them to the polls. because that political realm is so important in terms of being able to create a much kinder, gentler america. spill it next call is lou in las vegas. luke, thank you for holding. you are on with author carol anderson. >> guest: you guys are knocking me out. i have loved everything i have heard. it is just amazing. thank you for taking my call. i grew up inew los angeles and i grew up in a group with kids who had never heard of john franklin. my earliest memory was of mccarthy hearings but i did not know what they were. i just had my grandfather and my father crying. because of what joe walsh was

saying. and i remember my mother going nuts when louis armstrong called out like and said you have got to do something, send the airborne. and as time went on i realized the man i am old and i am still hearing the same stores, the same battles and it's like the guy she was beating his head against the wailing wall in i israel. crucial what you doing here praying for peace in the middle east. praying for people to get along. just like here there are 17 different religions. the guys had how do you feel? it's that i feel like i'm head against the wall. now it is 60 years later. i am thinking nothing has really changed except awareness, knowledge, people knowing about

books. right now i'm reading again one of james baldwin's a great books which is the devil findsil word. which takes him back to the 30s. looking at betty davis eyes and seeing himself because he had popeyes two.st now here we are and we still judge people by their looks. how beautiful they are or how ugly they are. and yet we still have this other thing going. so what we are going to leave it there. to see if a professor anderson has anything she would like to add to that. >> guest: and so part of what low pressure and a part of what voter suppression is designed to do is to make you think that there is no hope. it's always going to be this but it's going to be this is not going to get any better. why bother beating my head because the wall?

the reason we are still in the struggle is because we are still fighting. her fighting out suppressive force refused to give up. refuse to accept subjugation bird that is so important. we refuse to succeed our power. because it is in that fight. it is in that struggle. we continue to move forward. were we continue to create the knowledge. were we continue to be able to protect ourto communities. when we don't struggle, when we think this stuff is just messed up, then all of our protections are dissolved. that is why we fight. that is why we have to know what the game is. we went text message please ask dr. anderson and she is familiar

with the work of professor john lott who was taught at yale got law school in his book more guns less crime. >> guest: i am vaguely familiar with john lott. john lott is one of the heroes of the kind of second amendment school of individual rights. of guns, guns everywhere kind of deal of it being against gun safety regulations. as i had mentioned earlier, i have not been pro-gun anti-gun. what i have been as for reasonable gun safety laws sucho as there is no reason to have semi automatic weapons in the hands of civilians on our city streets that just does not make any sense. it's common sense about it andns not doctrinaire.

it went in tennessee, text message. i agree with what i believe is your critique of art racist and violent society. but we h have create a collaterl parasitic layer of well compensated commentators and helpers. many of them as constant universities a critical foundation of the system, who appeared to be neutralized in subsumed efficiently by the dominant culture. comments? >> guest: okay. i thought i knew her that was headed and then it veered in another way. i think part of what you are laying out here is that there are scholars who feed on the kind in american society. and who provide cover for that. and this is why having freedom

within the university. freedom of the exchange of ideas within the university are so important. because what that does is when you have evidence-based scholars, you are allowing that evidence-based scholarship to do the heavy lifting of democracy. you are able to discern the difference between that evidence-based scholarship on the ideologues. we went what you think about some reports that the academia has been overtaken by the left? [laughter] >> host: i t guess you don't regret those reports? >> guest: oh lord. [laughter] i'm sorry. [laughter] i think that is also part of the smoke and mirrors that is out

there. that is designed to denigrate the incredible work coming out of these colleges and universities in terms of that scholarship. because of you can denigrate that scholarship you are able to create new truth. truth it is not fact-based, that is not evidence-based. and we see that happening a lot. so this is why saying the left, efi've got to say when you talko black scholars who are in the academy, they are not seeing this incredible left that has taken over. they are looking at the kinds of fentrenchment of power and working through that in order to do this work. next next call comes from carol and greens, pennsylvania hi carol. >> hello. i have a question any research has been done to compare the laws have changed so

significantly over the years for the disabled. i am 86 years old and in a wheelchair. i worked as a vision therapist for years. i also ran a program and 58 -- 68. 49% black i have a lot of a positive cyst things to say by the black community. at a local black author has convinced me i should buy your book. and i am not a writer. i would like to see more research that can prove laws can change people's lives. and i don't think there has been anything done with the comparison between race and the disabled, that i can find. and i am very interested in yout opinion on that. so what stuart i apologize working to leave at that first question, there is a lot there.

we'll see if dr. anderson has a response for you. thank you for calling in. >> guest: the role of disability laws and disability policies art absolutely essential. it is one of the key movement forward that made this nature nation much more humane. to see the way that race works in those disability policies is also essential. there is some work done. i have seen some of it. i cannot recall the names off the top of my head right now. but basically doing library searches. like a world cup search. a search on your local library. finding the books that are there building and if you have access to a university library that can get you j score so you can see the articles that have been created and produce that's doing this work. that will give you the kind of

foundation that you need to see what is out there and where your intervention would be really important. >> host: juanita, cincinnati good afternoon. twenty-three hi how are you. i used to be a librarian you could also try as your local library at kit african-american card help with also the national library. i like dr. anderson and i am 71. was a protégé and grew up when i was a little girl.wa in my basement you had literally

hundreds. the visited by fbi twice. but my question to dr. anderson is, i'm taken aback by a comment that was made earlier. i'm not angry, i was wondering back to my sorority after the surgery, talk to young people and let p them know this is not history. this is life. this is what we live it. parents and grandparents talk as if it is a situation. this is not history this is a continuum. thank you it's very wonderful to see you. >> thank you. the question is, we are

consistently stunned by the lack of knowledge about tulsa. happening to folks they saw watchmen did notil even know tua happened? on teaching the civil rights movement, i start off my class going you know, i have basically heard of the civil rights movement as rosa sat down, martin stood up. dream and we all overcame. when you get that incredible movement reduced to rosa, martin and overcome, then what we lose is the massive local organizing that happened, that made movement happened. when we don't have that history we have a sense that this should happen quickly and be, all you have to have as a leader. no, it takes a lot of folks.

a lot of hours, a lot of commitment. it's knowing that history so how do we do this? one of the things i do have on the website basically brief five minute history called the hidden histories of civil rights. i provided in those soundbites that allows teachers to be able to use that in their classroom as a foundation for greater discussion, for greater knowledge. blinken right now, the civil rights movements veteran websites that have the documents and the narratives that really can provide access to the knowledge. that is what we really have to begin facing history, facing

ourselves. those entities have provided a much broader access to this history that helps usnd understand. this was oneon of the things abt one person novo. white rage and the second is i tighten where we are now with what happened then. so we can see the through line. the past is not over, it's not even the past. i'm blowing that line but something like that. the past is still with us. we are still living it. one tweet from stuart your books are essential to understand the need for our complete history. after the back last 6019 project, do you know of an organized effort by the academic community to preserve our undeleted u.s. history?

>> what ac is through the american historical association. for the association study afro-american life and history. i am seeing those organizations are really doingre the work of ensuring that our history is preserved. i am seeing this in archives. the archives are working overtime to make sure the original documents and the original artifacts are still there. so we can see you then. at emory are stuart rose library. in there for instance we have the papers and we have got the signs the street signs from

resurrection city which was the poor people's campaign in 1968 that continued on after the assassination of martin luther king. you see archives, you see historical associations really doing this work. but it behooves all of us when you have the school board flooded with angry parents put up with that" can sometimes those folks do not even have children in those schools. it behooves us to pay attention to that and to participate in that process. that is the backlash of teaching divisive history and history that makes our children feel uncomfortablesh. they pushed back saying we must know this history. we cannot be we keep telling

understand how we got here. >> about 15 minutes left with our guest carol anderson. hi frank. good afternoon. i wanted to say the show is excellent. the professor is very, very good. i disagree with almost everything she says. but that being said, myy questin is can she explain why the crime rate, especially murder in the black communities and major cities is so out of control. satterwhite issue are black issue cooks before we let you go, where you disagree with professor anderson? maybe it's my best way of

putting it. some of the things d i hear i jt disagree with. that's about all i can say it. >> you in any way consider yourself to be a racist? >> caller: it never have it. that being said, somebody might look me in the face and say i was. i never have i don't believe i am. >> host: thank you sir. speech is the framing of that question i thought was quintessential. why do we have all of this murder happening in the black community? 80% of african americans are killed by african-americans, but we don't get them over your talk about allll this black crime, tt is the narrative of black

pathology breed that is that narrative of pants and a blackness that in the secondg period but it is saying is blacks are inherently violent. they are inherently criminal. and so therefore we must have, weeping the white community, must have protection act in american society. but we don't get to are thewh issues of watching what happens when our schools are devalued and defunded. what happens when jobs go away? what happens when we have this massive, massive discrimination happening in our employment processes? this incredible research out there that shows if you have a racially identifiable name the qualifications are the same as somebody who does not have it racially identifiable name. so for instance, shouldn't he

quit jackson has a resume and jennifer sue jones has a resume. equal qualifications, jackson will have to send in multiple, multiple resumes and letters to get the i interview. opposed to jennifer jones. because of the inherent racial discrimination. so when we are looking at the kinds of biases that are in american society, that limit access to jobs, that limit access to houses, we have incredible studies about what that means in terms of the discrimination in housing. the discrimination in healthcare. the discrimination and policing. when we are looking at all of this. just ask about black folks killing black folks we are not looking at whites who kill

whites. we are not looking at thehe structural inequality that are there in american society that we are not asking for a real answer. we are asking for a soundbite answer. stoop stuart what you think of frank saying i like everything you're saying, i love the show to disagree with everything you're saying. i think i saw you smile out of the corner of my i pray. >> i smiled because i've had that before. and i am like grapes, come. come with the facts. come with a historical documentation. come with the valid research studies. so i just know. this is what i mean about the kind of undermining because what it does is it undermines the rigors of the research. the rigors of r the analysis to make how i feel on par with

that. and how i make how i feel become part of policy. instead the rigors of the work. cracks in tallahassee florida hello. >> hello good afternoon. shirley and thank you dr. anderson for your work. my question has to do with whether or not dr. anderson can address what appears to be -- what i hate to say a lot of. how other populations in this country are nonwhite but they are not black, seemed to pylon, promote biased against the black race. we have a book that addresses

how we, as a people, black people can utilize the capitalistic to better our position and have a better impact on the economy in this country. i hope that makes sense for. >> thank you cheryl and. >> guest: there was a book.oh two differentt books. how the irish becamee white. when the irish immigrants were here they were treated horrifically. bottom of the barrel or close to bottom of the barrel. what he documents is what they begin to learn in american society is the way into whiteness is anti- blackness. on so when you're talking abouth the piling on this is really what you are laying out. i'm sorry it japanese-americans

and chinese-americans became the model minority. that really happened in the 1960s. so while you have the civil rights movement happening, while you're having this force saying america must become america you have this backlash that puts up asian americans the model minorities as opposed to these black folk. i know what she lays out her she asked the questionhe how to govern the chinese exclusion act i hate it when my brain fries like that. and the internment of the japanese and the banning of all asian immigration in the 19204

national origins act. how do we go from that kind of policy to model minority iny te 1960s? and what she laid out his asian americans went from being not white in the 1890s, the 1920s, the 1940s, to being not black in the 1960s. you haven't civil rights movement and the blackck power movement. that kind of linguistic turn that elevates, they believe in family. asians a believe in education. they believe in hard work. they are not looking for a government handout. so you get these kind of tropes that attach to model minority as a way to help create the fishers and communities of color.

but, one of the things we are seeing is that, i was powerful as that is. that's an old british colonial thing divide and conquer. the human rights frame we all are in this together. we all work together proceeds with a coalition of workers on in florida that deals with tomato growers. and in this organization come in this immobilization of workers sought a human rights frame where you had african americans. you had latinos. you had asian americans, you had at whites all working together to improveth the quality of life and that working conditions in the tomato fields in florida. and so would folks to try to split them apart they were like

no, no. that is what becomes essential. this is again when i go back to reverend william barber. the movement he is creating us multiracial, multiethnic, multi- religious. that is where the power lies. sue and darrell is going to the u.s. virgin islands. darrell your own with author carol anderson. >> good afternoon ms. anderson. i have a question. i am calling from the virgin islands. i am studying from the early 1900s up to 1917. are you familiar with harrison and the new negro movement in his work? your book about bourgeois radicals, i thought the naacp had dropped the ball in their work in our time. but when you explain the work

they have done for people of color and oppression outside the u.s. and inside the u.s., gave me another perspective on them. i think currently they have dropped the ball inro their efforts in being able to affect real change for people of color in america. do it were going to leave it there but did want to ask you,es is your research personal or professional? >> personal right now. i wish i had a teacher like hero i want to organ state i wish i had a teacher like her and morgan sit at the time when i went. he went thank you joe for calling in, professor anderson. >> kind of sort of comment too vague for me too be specific. [laughter] because i really focused in on the 1940s and taking it through the 1960s.

and so the focus of my work really looked at for instance the naacp, the civil rights congress, the national negro congress for the council of african affairs. those were the organizations following through my work. america committee on africa. so seeing those organizations and how they deployed their strength. how they were succumbing to their weaknesses was absently essential for me in terms of laying out how this struggle for decomposition works. two and six book status or another in the works? >> there is one in my head. >> to ensure with this whole dual group therapy with you? [laughter] so what i'm thinking about is a book i am entitling the ties that bind in silence.

african-american response to political violence in haiti, congo, and nigeria. 1960 -- 1970. in my initial research, one of i found -- want to give you a broader concept than that. but i am intrigued by our organizations that stay they are there for the people. to protect the people, and then they don't. what are the forces that create that? and then what are the forces that create them to move? so what i saw in haiti and in congo, i'm looking at five different organizations. five liberal organizations, black liberal organizations. and i am not seeing them really engage with the violence ratings out in haiti inen congo. why? they had been so involved in

providing resources to those nations. infighting for those nations, and arguing, and the state department and the white house for those nations at the un for those nations, why the silence when black folks are getting slaughtered? >> host: where did you get that idea? >> guest: is me being stunned at the silence. at the same time when haiti is a rafting. when it's erupting in this violence i am not seeing any, very little. but what i am seeing is short will south africa's happening. these groups are all over southi africa with the violence and massacre that rained down at sharpsville. so they get the protection of black folk. they get how they have a bloodied pool pit to fight for this. why not here? but then i see them really

getting engaged in the civil war in nigeria. so my question is, why within the same decade? what was it that change that causes level of engagement that i did not see the first two? what last two hours author and professor anderson pre-through her most recent books include white rage the unspoken truth of our racial divide. one person no vote how voter suppression is destroying our democracy. her most recent book brace and guns in a fatally unequal america. thank you for your time on this sunday. >> guest: thank you so much for your time peter this was wonderful. ask american history tv saturdays on cspan2.

>> . >>

. >> it's such a privilege toe sit down and talk with you about your book and the person i want to ask is how to approach your role as a writer and political wr?