goodman argued that k-12 school system is teaching the children to hate america in the history watch book tv every sunday on "c-span2" find a full schedule on program guide or watch online anytime apple tv . org if you enjoy book tv center newsletter using the qr code to receive a schedule of upcoming programs offer discussions book festival and more, tv, every sunday on "c-span2" or anytime online booktv.org television for serious readers. >> this is my first time of one of these events for the portland queen me on the road quite a bit this a good thing oftentimes and tomorrow i fly to omaha nebraska will be meeting with governorme

and meeting with members of congress but the best part and i'll be on the fly without a facemask for the first time in two years so in recent months i figured out the best way to deal with that is to bring a few lollipops and tootsie pop can bless you a good 20 minutes facemask off but anyway, it is wonderful to see although not been here, i've been with harlan for more than 20 years to see so many familiar faces and some new faces and looking around he really lift our spirits peoplee in the building giving of your free time and here on an evening we could be home doing whatever else it tells us so thank you so much for being here and it was wonderful to see how be able to talk with most of you personally here beforest we started the

really lifted t my spirits and r those of you who do not know, teheartland institute were nonprofit organization and nonpartisan organization and we believe in free markets lobbyist for freedom and we fight for freedom and a mission statement discover and promote premarket solutions and of society closely known for her work in global warming and fighting against but we address a large number here aree corp. probably issues over the years have been education and financial budget issues, and school issues in school choice in particular eminently we been for tingly active fighting big tech censorship, and fighting great reset of capitalism, thought to be imposed upon us,

and lately the environmental social governance in china government relations out in the state legislature with testified and we have more than 50 locations in the first quarter of 2022, improving 20 in person testimonies are most of the times we been invited by the legislators themselves to m advocate in support of free markets solutions we that because of the sport of people like you y so think you once agn for all of your support here inn person, and for those of you who joined the harlan institute and for putting your money and could use and donate more and will put toim good use and without a mineable turn the microphone over to jump to introduce our speaker just before i do i just want to say one thing, i was student of history and i love history and is much as our sessions here discuss policies and sometimes politics in today's world, evan especially

fired up for this for quite some time. our speaker just wrote a book dragonslayer's and he has as much history and policy governance i have purchased the book not quite through with it yet but a read much of it and it is a compelling narrative and supporter, we are in info tree tonight and jim i will turn this over to you for more formal introduction and think you all for being here tonight. [applause] [applause] >> okay, that works. [laughter] , that is fantastic. we have tested all of the stuffc dozens of times a day. you might've noticed the big camera here in the back, these are our friends from c-span is of the er here's the record this process and posterity and also our lifestream on heartland so everybody watching lifestream ts

well and introducing are fantastic speaker here and i ths the second time or maybe the third time the heartland institute but is a native arizona and he graduated from arizona state universityat witha ba in political science and he put that ingredientsoi by goingo several rock bands opening for 60s and 70s acts like steppenwolf any switch gears gear in 1976, and then a phd university of california santa barbara. ... actually taught every single grade. from 7th through college so that's fantastic. he is the coauthor with michael allen of the new york times. number one bestseller a patriots history of the united states, which is now in its 31st printing with more than a history of the united statesn which in its 31st printing bread half a million copies in print. [applause] the book actually remains thek

post entrance textbook in america. and as you might know from the title it is supposed to be an anecdote to that book the people's history of the united states. in 2019 he founded the history curriculum website which is now available it is a full curriculum for u.s. world history for grades eight through 12. providing full lessons with video instruction bite larry thimself appeared as other best-selling books include seven events thatm made america you cn see that right here on thisla handsomely displayed on this table. actually pulled from the library of freedom here at the heartland institute. so at seven events made america, how trump one which he authored before the election completed before the 2016 election. the patriots history of the modern world in two volumes again right here. and then the last time user present is book reagan, the american president from 2018 he is here tonight to talk to us about his latest bestseller

dragon slayer's, 6a their war with the swamp. please welcome to the stage at larry. [applause] >> thank you. all right, thank you it is great to be back here. especially in a room dedicated. i only had a few occasions to meet andrew. but one of them was that he went way out of his way to introduce me to the hollywood community. he brought me out, hosted a nice a wonderful steak dinner for such people is actor adam baldwin, shapiro and many other people. it was really nice of him to do that.re i am always grateful to andrew for kind of leading the way. it's kind of interesting you mention thee raccoons. in our home we had a nice big yard with a picket fence but one day the dog wasnd out there goig crazy and there was a raccoon with its head stuck between the

fence slats. an isa tell my students i walked back and i got my big shovel. when i walked out. and i >> that slat in the fencef and freed the raccoons of he could runre off. don't tell me you crept onto crushed. they're more or less true. i dipped teaching at the university of dayton in 1985. i wrote a number of books that are not here tonight. they are academic books and again they make for good footnotes and so forth where they do not make for great reading. i wanted to write books that people would read. around 1999 or so started work on a textbook party wanted a book that we could use in our classes that was not horribly

biased. and we ended up writing a book that would come to be patriot history of the united states. we never thought we would sell a it to a publisher. in fact we thought it be sold out of the back of the van like the plastic straws out in california. [laughter] a publisher did pick it up and it did very wellin 2004. i went on to write three other books after that. you may remember this this is when glenn >> had an audience of 3.5 million aht night. seven times that of cnn. it is staggering how many people that would reach britta gave them a copy and his response was i know this book do i know thisi book? anybody who has read the book knows it's a great book the proper response is this is a great book. and i knew he had not read the book.

so i get a call four days later from glenn at home forsh he says larry when you are on the show i had not read the book. i said that's okay i understand. he said no, no i always read the guestbook. i read it over the weekend. this is a great book. and his endorsement, he put it on his desk every night of the show and talked about it three, four, five times a night with little yellow posters in it.on and immediately went to the top of amazon. in the following week i got a call from the publisher and said hate larry, your book is going to be on the "new york times" list this week great way to gauthier. and then i get a call a week later your book is going to be the top ten i said way to go. and then i get the call i can hear but the background partying i can had that champagne corks popping. and i know is going on back there. they sit later your book is going to be number one on the "new york times" list. don't get is going to be number

one on the near time too. said , i got this it's great. it's going to be in costco and walmart's or walmart customer are books going be? thank you jesus. meant i was writing book everybody could read. i would gone on to write the number and were back a number of these other books most recently i started thinking about the swamp obviously the context of donald trump. not just w in 20.20. from his own attorney general down trump was not the only one is others that have swamp problems. mice are the book at there's a six different with the six different stories. so began to put it together were

always talking about the same thing. all of the swamps were interrelated. so even though i start with lincoln and the slave swamp, the most important american probably never heard of is martin van buren. created the modern-day two-party system was called the democratic republican scope democratic republican. the period is called, it's called the era of good feelings. there's so little animosity andrew jackson wrote to the presidency in 1824, loses in the corruptive bargain. he decides he's going to give jackson the presidency. the story is you see what van buren was really trying to do was to create a political party that could keep it civilen war

from happening. he would do this by making sure slavery cannot be attacked even as northern sooner or later they would act on slavery. how do we keep this from happeningan? his answer it wasn't money. we will bite these people off. even if you areen an anti- slavr from pennsylvania we will give you a government job if you just shut up and follow along. we called the spoils system as a result in t van buren did not gt this. his goal is to keep the federal government small and the state stronger. what he has done inadvertently is create a system which the federal government began to grow with every single election.

because you had to give away jobs to get elected. and by the way the most powerful job in 1830 it was postmaster general of the united g states. mommy i want to be postmaster general. nobody paid back then everybody wanted to be postmaster general 8500 jobs that you got to give away. whoever the president appoints postmaster general that guy had a lot of power. here comes the way get. they are now on the same playing field as the democrats. i forgot to tell you the' name f van buren's party, the whigs come along there on the same playing field. one way they compete is to give away more jobs they promise jobs they promise more jobs. until government starts to grow every single election. nobody notices that until 1860. because a part of van buren

strategy was to make sure the presidency remained in the hand of someone who is not hostile to slavery a northern man of the southern principle the way it owas worded. you either get a democrat right northern man of southernn principles and office 1828 until 1860. and then in 1860 you got a big problem got a northern man, northern france built does approve of slavery in office. and even that lincoln said i will not act on slavery, he cannot help it.oi he is going to act on slavery because he's going to appoint federal marshal. is going to appoint federal judges who will rule in runaway slave cases. he is going to appoint customs commissioners who may allow free blacks off the ships that are docking southern port trees going to appoint aas postmasters who are going to allow in

abolitionist activity matera. lincoln's election because the civil war that van buren had hoped to avoid because of the enduring phone system. lincoln comes in and where the first things he notices is he is all these army of jobseekers lining up down the street. at the time he ran the government, are you ready for with two secretaries beat lincoln run the whole government to secretaries and literally people could come inside the white house in standard form a long line all the way down the block waiting to talk to the president about jobs when he wasn't busy fighting a war. and so lincoln could not deal with the spoiled swamp because his first job was to deal the slaves he kind of the spoiled swamp to defeat the slave swamp which he did. he was the only of the six presidents to be completely successful in his goal he did

defeat the slave swamps for thee spoiled swamp was still around and iter continued to grow. it got worse after the civil war because you had all of these veterans who are now claiming benefits by writing their congressman think i was in the civil war i need all these benefits. you would think that within ten years after the civil war the number of veterans claiming benefits from the civil war would decline because they would die, that did not happen. it grew as more and more people suddenly had magic commemorate restoration they're never there in the civil war got injured, wounded or whatnot. and so the roles begin to grow crazy. i knew literally have thousands and thousands of jobseekers descending on washington with each new administration. one author of the days of the trains going out to d.c. would be f full and the incoming trend to be full with different people all seeking to take theho jobs f those who just left. well, grant did not do a whole

lot about t this. i neither did hayes. the next guy a guy named james garfield ran on a program defeating the spoiled swamp. and he was going to do it one small problem, he got killed, to know who killed him? a spoiled swamp. shot him and said i'm a stalwart that is the man who favored the swamp. and now arthur is president. he was thought to be very favorable to the spoiled swamp. but is one of those rare people in washington that when he gets in office he has a change of heart to do the right thing. and he actually begins to attack the spoiled swamp. but arthur had a nether problem disease kept him from serving a second term. so hean is out and it fall to te second of my presidents, grover cleveland. i love cleveland, i look at him

as trump the first, first guy to win election, lose an election, win election. cleveland won the popular vote all three times. he comes in and takes on the spoiled swamp. he is in there, staying up late at night in the white house reviewing all of these claims for veterans benefits from people who were not veterans, throwing them out, vetoing them say no i'm not going to accept this kicks out thousands and thousands of these. and so he finally worked with congress to create something called a pendleton civil service act. this supposedly reform the spoils system that you know what happens in washington when they reform anything, it gets worse. and so they reform it and took about 10% of the total federal employees away from the president, put in the hands of a civil service commission where you would take a test andel however you placed in that test is what job you would be eligible to serve in.

but the on scene ramification of this was now presidents had so many fewer jobs to personally give away, now they had to give away groups of jobs to lobbyists, two different industries. and so in our time andan get it candidate going after the air force base and say i believe in a strong defense and everyone says yes the guys from raytheon and they got to colorado to the environmental protection summit. i believe protecting thehe environment. [applause] they own the memes of money coming to their coffer. so pendleton really did it moved giveaway at government job at a very into a very gigantic level and that government growth i talked about, all of a sudden it started to increase exponentially. meanwhile there's another swamp bringing its ugly head and teddy

roosevelt he feared the media. such a firestorm knobs against the big businesses but against all businesses you believe this in his heart he was protecting all business from this mob that would be raised to radicalism the yellow press. now, it is interesting i like him a lot a ways and i don't like him a lot of us you cannot help but like some guy he was in a cushy government job assistant secretary of the navy, war breaks out, and he resigned and goes to raise a volunteer calvary unit that wants to get into action and wants to see

combat. not only does he do that, but he fights. finale fights and he winsr. he t only wins but is awarded the medal of honor. and then, as president he negotiates a piece between japan and russia and is awarded a real nobel peace prize. can you imagine any modern president receiving both a medal of honor and a nobel peace prize? i can't. roosevelt the one big failure, he never ran a business. i am convinced that has teddy roosevelt he succeeded in everything else he did it, if he had just run a business.s. an uptight cattle ranch, that was it fantasyland, that they for him. other people run it.ut he didn't meet payrolls he didn't worry about laying people off. i am convinced that he had run a businesses antitrust activities would have been different. i don't know how but i think they would've been different. the one trust of course he does not take on is the media trust.

which at the time was not that big. but of course over time in our times it's got to be monstrous. government continued to grow. agencies continue to grow. new agency such as the fda and cia were added. and so by john kennedy's time in office, he is confronting a cia swamp. kennedy's problem, his task as he needs to get rid of the cia swamp. but he needs the cia too much ts get rid of it. he needs it for cuba, he needs it for a louse, he needs a for vietnam or as lyndon johnson he needs it for vietnam. and at one time when kennedy comes into officer 600 americans in south vietnam. when he is assassinated there are 16000 americans. so i do not by this notion can

is going to get us out of vietnam. funny trim line had t from 16 thought a line of getting out. so kennedy does not trust the cia pretty feels betrayed by them, yet he still needs to use them on many occasions. that's what i consider him the first failure in our group of six he doesn't do anything to bring the cia to heal. ronald reagan of course runs on a three-way pledge. one to defeat the soviet union, two to build back the american economy and three to reduce the power and the government. importantly for ragan he needs the government. he needs the b military, he nees big business to accomplish the other two. and so almost like kennedy he finds he needs the agencies he wants to get rid of too much to get rid of them. i will just share one anecdote in my book american the american entrance reagan the american present for david stockman was a

true believer in reducing sized government for their sending out memos to all the departments, how are you coming on reducinge the size of your department? how are you doing reducing your budget? i guess one letter one memo back this guy says compass the guy reagan appointed who believed in reagan's agenda. he said well we have already spent all of this year's y budg. and we spent part of next year's budget two. i really don't think were going to get around to cutting anything anytime soon. it was an amazing admission one chore in the swamp at the darn near possible to rollback the swamp. so by 1984, reagan had pretty much given up on the third plank of his platform promises which was to reduce the size of government. and he succeeded in the other two. he pretty much had to give up on the third but of reducing the bureaucracy. one very important thing happened between kennedy and

reagan. congress had been appointing and creating theseen committees, the bureaus these administrative agencies in empowering them. but once they got inre place, congress just let them go. basically any oversight over any of these bureaucracies are what steve bannon calls the administrative state at all, just let them go. so then it fell to the courts to try to handlehe these. but unfortunately what started to happen was the court said well, congress has set up this agency. congress gaveeo us these powers, who are we to say congress is wrong? they basically what the agency defined their own admissions in set up their own private police forces as some organizations have. that was a major change in then bureaucracy between kennedy and reagan. finally get to trump. truck came in and basically it's

all for the other swamps. he gets foil swamp, he gets thaa mediate swamp, get the cia swamp, the fbi swamp the deep trump's appointees do not help them out a whole lot. jeff sessions especially the worstt single point the balance of undercut it every .2 documents to be declassified nothingap happens. amanda is very good on this she was in a .8 to the trump state department, she said they would send out memos to the embassies and get responses back from the embassies we are not going to do that for this reason or that reason. and you could never follow up and fire these people. so in the end, i have lincoln, cleveland, and roosevelt as

successes or partial successes in draining their swamps. i have kennedy and reagan and trump as either failures or partial failures and draining their swamp. so with that, this is always the best part of theec night we did the q ando a. i go back to rock 'n' roll larry. i go back to unhinged larry. this is a flaming drum solo were almost burned down the convention center. so let's just go ahead and open this up to questions. i will take it as we go from there. and we have a microphone circulating. you are not on. .there you go you're on. okay. >> hi larry. >> we know this deep state is a behemoth now. >> huge. >> we know whose power we know

those results what they're going to do or not do what is required of them by the president. but i like you to comment on is starting at the high levels of civil service and going down there is a certain culture of people who were hired and the fact they are rewarded or finding new ways to add a little bit of power and find new things to regulate and control, how w does that work and how bad is it? >> it is horrible. what reagan said is the closest thing he had seen to eternal life on this planet was a government agency. oand you are absolutely right u can change out the head of these agencies. t but how much of that is going to affect the culture down within? we solve this with the fbi did we not? we kept hearing people like sean

hannity tell us it's only a few bad apples at the top of the rank and file know they are corrupt down to the studs. i mean all the way through. if any of them were not corrupt they would've stood up and said i'm blowing the whistle. i am going to say this is wrong for this is not according to our manual this is not according to regulations and i'm going to call it jim comey and mccabe and all these other guys. that did not happen. so there is a total culture change that is required in addition to changing a personnel. and i have some suggestions at the end as to how we might accomplish that. >> over here. yes, sir. >> thank you, larry. the thing that amazed me during four years of trumpet presidencies every single day there was a scandal. and they would call him not to, calming us behead him and everything else. russia, russia, russia.

>> more russia. >> oh is the basic premise of the republicans and democrats p that hated trump, hating him was it because he didn't pay his dues and he just went from tycoon to president? or was it, some two people i talked to her liberals they can't tell me why they hate a trump. it always come down to tweets. >> mean tweets. okay that is a great question. trump represented, i think by far steve bannon is the best single analyst on this entire thing. other people have written about the late angela i think i was phenomenal writer. he represented a clash of the country class versus the ruling class. and that is to say the elites inside d.c. there's a book by charles murray after losing ground it's called coming apart

phenomenal book. in it, murray shows that based on wealth and income, they sought iq. he used school of graduation as a proxy for iq. he said you could go through the suburbs of washington d.c., and if you did not have someone picking up your laundry for you or giving you the starbucks coffee, you would never interact with a single person who is not in your income and iq school level. he said on the single block every single person on that block would come out of ivy league schools. that is got to change. no, a is you is no shake the university of montana is nothinn fantastic. but gosh, ten people from those schools to be better for the idiots we have up there now, g right? you have got this deep culture that is a problem.

now, trump hit other buttons. in this button i love to talk about this one. this is why the goldbergs andan the david french's, french fry and that chris hayes, these guys, are such a trump haters. my theory is this, they never were conservatives. they never were conservatives. what happened was, they would assume a conservative position and cocktail parties. and in speeches from the heartland institute or young americans or wherever they would go. they would make thesehe conservative sounding speeches up until trout because they knew nothing was going to change.y so the end of the night they could go back to their liberal buddies at the cocktail party and say well, it be nice of roe v wade was overturned but we know that's never going to happen. [laughter] and they would walk off. and here comes trump he says no, were going to actually do the things i campaign on. we are going to change this

country. that hit them like a brick wall. because all the sudden the threat was policies were actually going to change and they could no longer go in front of these people and pretend to be supporting conservative positions if it actually meant they're going to have to defend real conservative change. so i think that was an issue two. >> there is a really surprising -- to meet decision in florida that ruled against cdc and that mandates.ss if you think about how far the swamp is going to the cdc is now part of it, who knew. it seems as though this is a significant decision against the state. so what are your thoughts on these significance? >> you note today is hitler's birthday. i

we really need to celebrate yesterday which was freedom day in america, mass freedom day. here is what i would say about that. i would urge you to watch the podcast of a guide april robert barnes who is a lawyer and he has been predicting the outcomes of these legal cases almost exactly asha they turn out. he said the osha case would be ruled against biden. he said that military case would not because for so long there was a precedent. you go into the military, you goes overseas you get all the shots is going be really hard over too that. this was huge free of these liberals out there screaming today a judge in florida overturned the will of the people. you mean kind of like roe v wade? it was a massive, massive shift to the ground is shifting. not to sever across the board. desantis today at my gosh this guy is a tornado.

he is taking on a disney. they are saying you guys have existed for what 67, six days when disney world was founder, if existed for 40 years on florida taxpayers you don't pay all the taxes you should you have total autonomy in your development were going to change all that. void the heads are just exploding here. so i do think bannon is right right dogo not agree 100 seat turnover. but i do believe we are on the verge of a groundswell. i just tweeted out that's my twitter, walls other it's a play on my movie other walls to fall. so look me up at walls utter they tweeted an article this afternoon about this groundswell. it's not just here it's going on across the world. people are rising but look at what happened in hungary.

one with 90%. that's saddam hussein levels for the ballot saints saddam hussein kill me and torture my family. 90% numbers. but this is occurring everywhere across the world. i know it's a catchphrase but they are rising up. and isn't this fabulous?se the international rise of all of these people is turning marks on its head. they are writing for free market and freedom against the communist overseers, it is astounding. next sir please identify yourself. >> mark hello larry. access to on your done. they hold the micro and they do not want to give the microphone to a person like me but first i'll have a new twitter follower and you want to follow me back. quickly, i was in springfield this morning i spoke for three minutes at the illinois state board ofol education.

i told them they should get rid of it it is a wasteful group. with that in mind, i was hoping donald trump would have eliminated the department of education but instead he hired betsy devos. and nothing really happened. >> when you say nothing happened, that is a win for us. as strange as it sounds that ist a wimp if you put in a whole bunch of bureaucrats and at the end of for you as you can say nothing happens i would go yes we won that four-year, go-ahead. >> i was hoping he would -- i am a trump supporter and i think he's coming back. i was hoping he would get rid of the department of education,du h didn't he get rid of the department of education? >> why did he get rid of half a dozen departments. he was hamstrung from the beginning. when you come in and amanda said shee estimated there 16 mega people the entire administration now a president alone appoints

3000, 3000 right out of thoseo 3000 you've only got 60 maggot dedicated peoples going to to be hard to change things that way. too actually get rid of a department you would have to have aho department head who was committed to getting rid of that department. that is very hard to do. you're going to have to set up by ceo forbes is committed to getting rid of ford automobiles that's the equivalent of that. i think that would have been a bridge too far for trump to get rid of a whole cabinet level agency. reagan could have done it. but he did notal have the political clout to do all three of those things. when trump comes in again he's going to have to come in with a flamethrower. a flamethrower. with an exterminator right behind him, determine next right behind him. you're only going to get one more shot at this.ti if we do it wrong next time we probably are not going to get another shot at any of our

lifetimes. yes, sir. >> thank you for tracking through 200 years of history how about present day how would you describe the power structure in washington? vewho is running the place? >> i do not believe biden isn running anything. by the way of my twitter up all these nicknames invited is the rutabaga the pervert. nancy pelosi is both toxic. [laughter] mitch mcconnell is curable. anyway, i do not think biden is running anything. i don't think obama is running anything because he is too lazy. i don't think he has the energy, or the time. he wants to play video games and swim. i think it is a cabal. they had a one cabal group there's some green wacko doodles out thereca in charge of anothec group. you go through each interest group and they are all vying for

biden's mind. and kind of the last thing he hears going out the door is what he mumbles when he repeats his word salad of nonsense. so that is who is running washington for you have a whole bunch of rino republicans were committed to keeping the swamp soin place and they are all bout off by the most by big pharma. if you wonder why we had the vax and the vax and vax for four doses. it's because we've got people in washington making a ton of money off a big pharma. did not want to mention any of the other things that might mediate the disease. i think the next two elections are absolutely critical. if the seven trump endorses senate candidates all win, it will be a stretch but they could do to do it. if they all when that would change the republican makeup by

14%. that won election by 14%. if you bring those seven and they are committed and what they say they're going too do, no guarantees there with dr. oz, you don't know. but they are better than the other guys. if they actually do what they say, they come in you can then see the next echelon of the ted cruz and the rick scott and the marsha blackburn moving over hard-core on their side. it is inhe overton window that begins to pull the whole senate back to the right. and then comee in 2024 you've gt a shot. you've got seven or eight seats if the wave is big enough folks, there is not a seat in the world that is safe. the democrats are just now figuring this p out. there is a place in political or the hell they alternate but they haven't used for the democrats sithis week. they said basically we are looking at a wipeout and

potentially 24 a vetoproof majority in houses. so, i person that will get summer in the neighborhoods of 40 seats. the client is sure it's he's going to keep going down trees in the 30s and only three poles never think of in the high 20s by election time 2024. that should be sufficient to wipe them out. i mean just crush them. >> i thought oh my god this vid is going to i ban from youtube. there we go. then i remembered know everything you say is going to be fine. the question over here will start with you, dan. next i think dan robbins. i wonder what how you might've considered the history of jimmy carter i consider him to be one of the great tea regulators of our time progressive is not

carter that deregulated. all that deregulation had been put in place t actually back in the late part of the nixon administration we look at airlines, you look at trucking, you look at gas. in my book, reagan the american president, i have a chapter on carter called the worst president ever. with an asterisk. now i have to revise it until barack obama and joe biden. my nickname for him is jesus carter. he is so pompous. he is so perfect. i don't consider him to be very good president at all. whatever deregulation is there is not his doing he inherited it from others. >> i have aho question. bcontinue.

[inaudible] >> i get what you are saying. this is actually a suggestion i three measures for hope here. first, what we do about the swamp? here is one thing you can do this is bannon suggestion. you buy these people out. 20% more of your remaining salary to get out and retire is going to cost a lot of money. but it is o a one time investme. because once that person is b eligible what he do? close the job for its number open for business you never stop that job again. believe me you can get rid of a lot of washington if you were to buy out these jobs and shut them up. that is suggestion number one. number two, you've got to get the bureaucracy out of d.c. you've got to get the administrative state out of d.c. trump actually started to do thisis. he began moving some of the bureau of land management and

interior offices out to omaha, nebraska. think put them all in htfarmington, new mexico you wil never hear from them again. anyone been to farmington? look it is a uranium mine. but is all you need to know. anyway, move these offices out get them into the interior of america at least with that will do is get them around more ordinary americans, more of the times of these the impact of the policy. they see nothing back in d.c. for their t totally insulated ad a complete echo chamber. the third thing we've got too do is vote, vote in mega oriented people who are actually going to change the system. we can only do what we do we can only vote for the people inha front of at the time. do what you can do to replace these people. >> i have a question, go ahead.

>> not that nixon and trump aret equivalent, but can you give any insight into the watergate era? you certainly seem i give a deep state of operation in the fbi and the whole thing against nixon but what was that all about and respect to what weh know now what happened with trump? what such a great question on watergate . i'm going to give you an answer very few historians would ever give you is that we do not know. the best guess i have theha explanation that said john dean found out that the democrats hadn't address book of a call girl in their possession. it was his then girlfriend seem to be his wife marine, her name was in this book. it was dean who authorized the break-in. it was dean who told him what to look for which is why they are nowhere near the chairman of thc

democratic party's office. there are over in some gay whose officeve back in the back part which happen to have that diary. they knew exactly where to go. so i think and then dean lied to nixon and said this is a national security issue. i nixon well, to covered up right? and so they went on and got the cia to intervene with the fbi and the national security and it completely went to heck from there. nixon is not innocent part he obstructed justice but he should have gone too jail, but he was not guilty of the original crime everybody things he was guilty of which was ordering the break and i don't think that is my take on it. [inaudible] >> i have seen peccadilloes and somem can be pretty big. i would watch out for those big the cabela's. the second breaking up the

first? >> he apparently had directed both of them. >> he did not put together the person they did was perfect. >> it was him who put it a together. >> the question here is your hand. your book, larry is called dragon slayer six presidents and the war with the swamp. just give it the 2020 election. in 2016 nobody thought trump would win. the "new york times", you did, i don't think trump did. [laughter] asked that depends who you talk to in his inner circles where the thought is going to whimper. >> my point being hillary was going to be the third obama term the swamp is excited that all of their plans all the things are going to do and then trump wins and trump is going to oppose the swamp he does things as you outline just a moment ago moving

bureaucracies out to the hinterland so they will quit hopefully, things like that. my personal feeling i think this is shared by a lot of people in this room for this is going to sure to get this thing banned from youtube for sure. i want to make sure the algorithm hits at all. >> i could sing that would guarantee it. >> at 2020 election was a littl unusual. >> i would say precooked after all that i start to think to myself i think a lot of people thought to themselves there's no way they're going to trump to win. the media it was against and they did not report on the hunter biden stuff they suppress this, they did that. the time magazine article they fortified the election. they saved the country they think they save the country.d because of trump had a second term then it really the swamp is in trouble and it could be drained. they were holding it off keeping them tied up with the russian collision stop and to impeachments. and i always thought to myself

there's no way the swamp was going to leave this up to the people. they were not going to take the chance he would get reelected. now, is that a conspiracy theory is that crazy talk? >> no not at all time magazine said so it came out and laid it out exactly that they're doing. i wrote and how trump won, i finished the book. my part of the book in about october of 2016 president trump is going to win the election with 206 electoral votes. the final was what, 320? 300. i was off by six. i said he would wind between 30320 electoral votes. and so i was sure it based on the voter registration numbers i was seeing in ohio, florida, north carolina i was sure he was going to win.se i really did not think they could steal it. i thought trump was going to get at least 10 million more votes than he got he got 13 million

more votes than before, right? so what happened? i am from arizona. they get an audit which nobody wants to talk about in terms of the actual findings. they found i'll give you one data point, 17000 duplicate ballots. i guarantee you all 17000 of those were from biden. we can't prove it. but when you got 17000 duplicate some biden wins by 11000, that is just one metric for this dozens of other metrics totaling at least 57000 more votes. not even in all of arizona but we know this county stopped simultaneously in five big cities. how does that happen? i would say it went even further. i think there was a conspiracy early on if you want to use that term. i'm going to blame mike pence per think mike pence was

involved in this. and i thinkig he convinced trum. a big supporter of federalism. trump was a most federalism president we have had since washington.gl his first response to every single issue this is congresses job,hi they should fix it.e. a second time, this is congresses job third time this is congresses job. ifwa they don't fix it i will. but he always tried to get the right department or the right agency to do their job. he foisted as much as he could off on states to get them to do .their job. so here comes the china virus interview sukkot covid. here comes the china virus. anna pence and his chief of staff go to trump and said you know what mr. president, this would be a great opportunity to practice federalism. why don't you put control of the administration of the china virus in the hands of the state? that's trump's inclination to

ensure that the good idea. unfortunately, jen with this dude? no state had the medical wherewithal the expertise in the medical examiner's office and the department of health toll compete with the cdc or the nih. so what happened? all of the state medical officers started looking back to the cdc and what do you say? and doctor fales he was right to tell them exactly what tohi thi. and so i think pence a plan to this. it turned out the power wasr. handed over to doctor fallacy through playing on terms ofde federalism. and if trump had retained the power himself i guarantee you after two months this is baloney this is hogwash we are not going to dover going to open the country backup and it would have issued executive orders to that effect. no way they been overridden? i don't know. with legislature passed laws i don't know i guarantee things would not have about the way they did and therefore added that layer onto all of the other

things you mention, all these horrible things are going on. which i think is the thing that really sunk him. the downs economy as a result of the china b virus. even with the fraud he would beat the fraud if not for the china virus. >> by a corrupt made to the to 2020 election was on the up and up? one, do you think the 2020 election on the up and up into, how should ron desantis answer that question question i. >> know i do not believe on the up and up. i think we have abundant evidence of fraud. we do not know who it benefited. but the chances are overwhelmini it benefited joe biden but i do not believe joe biden got 81 million votes here, and rwanda in the soviet union he did not get that many votes, that would be my answer. >> set a candidate should say customer. >> yes. i think you are going to be surprised how many times if you just stand up.

this is one thing trump taught everybody but if you just stand up, stand up, fight back into santos has internalized this. kerri at lake and arizona running for governor internalizes you up to see this woman on the media. she destroys the media. you start standing up and they will back down but you've got to stand up first. >> no rock 'n' roll questions? >> ishi going to ask this questn before you went into all of this, especially illinois we cooked crooked county, there is a lot of potential for election fraudud. how do we fight this? i was an election judge in the last election i think we need more conservative judges to be involved but what else can we do? it is really very frustrating for. >> in a state like illinois you are behind enemy lines. you are just going to have to fight it out one foxhole at a

time. but every foxhole is important. get as many people in the y election boards as you can. you start working your way back into cook county. before you know what you have all the immediate suburbs then you're going to have some of the interior of the city. and folks, hispanics are coming over to the republican party like you cannot believe. it is sort of the most amazing boomerangs inor political histoy that the democrats who encouraged all these illegals even illegals coming and according to polling by richarde barron, are trending conservative. they come from countries like el salvador, guatemala, better hellholes. they want a part of the american life. so what's happening as i think we can take these back. we are already winning over the hispanic vote. waiver of the slowly making inroads into the black vote. we can do it but it is a swamp, it is a swamp.

ask who are you again? >> i am james taylor president of the heartland institute. but your present their fire and rain bring. >> that is right for getting back to your book one thing thae fascinated me, you've touched on the someone of your comments when you said the three you consider successes and three you considered failures. and sequentially the first three you examined were successes and the last three were failures. so if you flip them around, how successful do you think those first three would have been in the day and age of the last three? and how successful with the last three be if they had the circumstances of the first three? what were the circumstances wasn't more circumstance or more tactics? and battlefield brilliance? quickset is a a historical question. so give the confederates ar-15's they win the civil war. in[laughter] look, lincoln was going to be a

great president and any age he put him in. he had the courage to make the right decision, the steadfastness to fight for them. i think if you put them in or the swampy probably would've been done better than even cleveland. i think cleveland was a much narrower man was not a big thinker. but he was absolutely focus on the task at hand pretty with the guy fixing your plumbing, right question mcewen grover cleveland fixing your plumbing. tr was a very much a man of whatever struck him at thee tim. ift' the swamp had struck teddy roosevelt he would have fought back even harder than trump and gotten very bloodied. he might have been impeached and taken out, removed. he would've fought in a much different way. reckons style was such that he would have tried conciliation is much as possible but in the end he would've ended up doing the same thing for not going to back down on these essential points of american freedom.

so you get into these historical questions i feel like with jumping back and forth withor time. but that is my best shot. ask anymore questions raise your hand you can ask questions you got one right here. >> one of my concerns is people are so clueless today. after church at the coffee hour i talk to these friends very successful people. they do not want to talk about anything other than their golf game. we live in a retirement village right now for the people thatth are successful, they do not want to talk about anything serious. so i am really concerned and as we know universities today only 4% of the faculty are republicans. >> and only 2% are conservatives. >> the people that you get

newspapers the chicago tribuneow is turning left, i am concerned about how clueless people are. now, think the republicans are going to do well but there only one reason is when they get gas inflation. that is the key issue. is it because people are informed they just don't like the paperclip they are informed with the pain at the gas pump is era form of information. that is a very powerful form. so let me take your question this way, you are familiar with the declaration of independence and you are familiar with the line that jefferson said thatfes long, i cannot quote but as long as evils are tolerable men will tolerate thesevi evils. in other words, people will not rise out of their comfort level until it gets extremely uncomfortable. which is why i want biden to stay in office for two more

years because i want to be so incredibly uncomfortable theser people go we will never put another democrat in office in her entire life. now in terms of retirement village and what not, do not forget in 2010 it was the r retirees who stormed into the tea party pray this is one of the problems was the tea party was an older movement and did not have a lot of youth in it to take over. so i am no spring chicken and i am pretty active. >> hi larry. i enjoyed it very much. i want trump to win again him back into the race but he has such poor advisors when he was in the white house people around him betrayed him. has he improved is he any better now down in florida? he seems to be surrounding it with people who may bee informig him to do the wrong things. he is endorsing some candidates for senate that are really bad.

>> now, i push back on that. i was not a vance fan when he first came out. but the more i began to look at mandel i realized he is to corrupt you just cannot let him, he is part of the swamp. the same thing with higgins. and dr. oz was far from my favorite candidates. but it's what they said about democracy and how democracy is the worst government in the world except for all the others. dr. oz is the best candidate given the others. i am more impressed with people who used to walk the wrong path like harriet lake who voted for obama, who now is consistently not only saying the right thing but pushingg back. it is not just saying the right thing in front of donors, are you saying the right thing in front of tv cameras? w and so i hope, i think you're going to see vance and awes in some of these other guys, i hope it's blake masters in arizona, for these senators that's going to be very powerful.

there's a lot of things about a lot of these people i don't like. tennessee with morgan ortega's was a bad pick. but people who supported barbie starbucks had a whole lot of issues. he had a lot of issues. he is not a boater in that district. it's always a crab shoot. i could ask any one of you here until you have run companies, how many people do you know that you can appoint two positions that you can absolutely trustil and who will carry out your goals and objectives? most of us cannot point to more than three or four people, right? how many of those are competent? [laughter] in my s friends maybe one or tw, right? you are stuck relying on people's advice whom you do not know all that much but t hey thy are in the republican party supposedly they have your best interest at heart. who is he getting advice from

now? i do ti not know but i have a feeling we get closer to the election is going to be two people don and eric. those are the only ones i wanted to get advice from other than maybe steve bannon if steve can behave. [laughter] that's all i'm going to say about that. ask another question over here? roman goal ashford the question i have, larry, if trump or president do you think putin would've invaded ukraine questioner. >> no not a chance not a chance. here's another interesting thought question, may be, and i know we are enduring some horrible stuff and i know what biden is doing is just terrible, but may be it's better trump was not end with a luke warm senate and a lukewarm house, maybe we need to refine these for another four years. you know the story about gideon in the bible and how he was sent

down to fight an army and he had 30,000 men and god said that's too many parties get rid of them they are not committed pretty gave them a tesco have them draw water out of the lake if they left thatt they stay they put in their hands they go for a cannot rembert. he gets rate of 27000 of them. you still got too many. you've got 3000 pdt rid of those. the point is an army of land than by a lamb. and so if we can -- mcclendon took the soviet union with 20000 devout followers of 168 million people, only one third of the americans believed in it because of the and look what they did. it's not numbers it's dedication and willingness to go fight and engage theri enemy. when we at the right people

there it is doable but not saying it's going to happen i'm saying it's doable. but they do not like the question i'm going to ask no progress i don't like the answer. >> a lot of people who i know who are sort of hidden in this era who voted for trump and who is supported his positions feel that his ability to be elected has diminished his personality but they are turned off by his nastiness is the way they put it and worse. so my question is, what are his prospects? or someone likee desantis or somebody who is a trump follower who can tell you you do not want

to throw tomatoes at them because he said nasty things because there is an old thing you cannot. [inaudible] you cannot have jim browned and have him have sprinters speed. every great person every person achieve something great usually does so in spite of a handicap not because of their personal passion. moses had a speech impediment this is a guy going to choose to lead the jews? really? i don't think that aspect of trope is as big a deal as many, think it's an excuse for a lot of people. this is why i want the pain to continue folks. i want bites me too continue in office and ratchet up that pain. you are alcoholic. you need to get to the bottom before you say i am a drunk and i need to reform.

[inaudible] >> will be a nice guy or gal they are now up to saddled with inflation, they are the party of war. they are the party of covid and masks in vaccine. look at barris' polling. it is staggering. trump is being desantis and some polls by 50 points, 50 produce not even close. he is beating abided badlywh sometimes by eight or nine points. now, what's going to like and 24? they know it folks, they know this for they know they are teetering on the brink and why haven't they removed biden? paris. because nobody even nobody wants harris and their pets out mark

my words if you see harris go watch out the 25th amendment is coming for old joe. but until harris goes he is safe. some people think he appointed her just for that r reason. but also remember this, then x has to be confirmed by both the house and the senate. so it has to be done quickly if they're going to get rid of her input andgu some bit like mayor pete, right questioner. [applause] that is the guyy they want. that is th' guy they want because if you are black get back if you are gay you are okay. yes it's gate now trumps a black soap mayor pete is now next in line. does not have a chance against trump not a chance for they are increasingly painting themselves into a narrower and narrower corner as you see of the disneyland staff. they are willing to go to the mat for pedophiles for pete's sake. they need to rename splash mountain groomer mountain or something like that.

mix the stuff you said triggered him to say something which triggered a bunch more questions. we have right back here regrets i am peers functioning me i get paid by the hour. >> thank you, thank you larry this is fascinating. my name is venus lesko eight times to the east what you think putin swamps are even further east we think present she swamps are? like that's a great question. hooton is not stupid. he may be a murderer, he is like a mafia boss he's very smart and who he kills. he, think legitimately saw some of those regions and ukraine as threats. especially as the drumbeat was coming to bring ukraine into nato. that was simply not tolerable fore w him. dessie a people who want to take him out? absolutely. if he can find them he will. now president xi has very big problems in america it meted us out to talk about this at all. have huge environmental issues

with declining birthrate but we alls think china is a growing, know they have a declining birthrate. a person mention this to me, how eager do you think they are to send young men off to war when they spent a generation building up theirir only sons are they really going to send them off to be slaughtered on taiwan question what they can take taiwan anytime they want too. but it will not be pleasant. it will cost millions to take taiwan because there is a very narrow landing era. i read a very thorough analysis of war between taiwan and china. it would not be pleasant. they do not have nearly the semi conductors was talk about associate today, that taiwan has. i want semiconductor chip giant in thehe world. and then what happens if japan, the philippines, other countries decide to chip in on start whittling down china's military?

i always apply to china but was applied to russia. china is never a strong as strong as she looks china is ase weak as she looks. those who have serious, serious issues. and right now we are actually helping the russians by making their oil more valuable. you made putin's oil the equivalent of crypto currency. it is amazing. it's a couple more questions because of one here in one here in one here, go ahead server. >> hi i am commander brown united states navy retired. i just have a question i watched for example the brown confirmation on tv, 53 -- 47. i've seen a few elections in my life. we all know it is always 49%, 51% 51 -- 49 all the time. when or what is it going to take for this country to have

elections were half the people are pissed off at the end? when are we going to that point questioning not us out of the same earlier. >> you know, look at the civil war but my gosh lincoln wins with i don't know just around 40% of the vote. the greatest president next to washington in american history only gets 40% of the vote. it is the nature of a democracy i think especially our democracy which is a constitutional republic. and madison said it, you cannot get rid of this. he called them factions. i think he said you need to have factions and of course washington hated parties but you need to have parties, you need pto have one affection checking another because this is the way people get their ideas out into the public for it and yes it has become significantly corrupted in a lot of ways over time. but still, i like conflict. you only get pearls when you get the chafing, right?

steel sharpens steel. do not think we are all meant to stand around and circle and sing cool by all. we get up there, contest our ideas, always be respectful when the other h side wins which is t what has not happened in the last 20 years really since reagan gave up being respectful if we one. but brown she does not know what a biological woman is out is just great. >> helicopter favor. >> i got six of them i am polish, that so than i. want to thank you for it in the book only because i'm an old man that got i a young son and daughter. and i have been pretty depressed. knowing we have gone to crab likeme this before makes me feel that we can go through this crab also. that is the one thing for the second thing is are you going to work for trump?

a guy with you our knowledge has got to work for trump. he can't put all down eric's shoulders be. >> if he asked him in a minute. i really thought he benefited from bannon even though the person i was were very much in conflict and we had some bleak problems there. you need people like that around. you need people to tell you know and you need people who can stand up to you. i would love to work for trump. and i came this close to meeting him two t times. one time wasas right after the election but before the inauguration i was at trump towers to meet with bannon about this book. and trump had just left maybe 30 minutes before. the next i was in 2017 just before bannon retired. and j i said as the boxer to be said no he just headed out for new jersey so i missed him twice. but i missed shaking hands with ronald reagan by this distance. i was doing it about for ronald

reagan at the western white house but it was over the hill. have any of you been to the ranch? who was bench of the ranch? small, really, really small. the whole house is about the size of this room it's a really small house. you cannot hold public events though they just do not have the facilities for it. they were holding an event that another guys ranch over the hill called in concert at the white house. it would have beverly sills as a metropolitan opera where's the hostess. she would host once a month a different musical orr entertainment acts. you'd get the beach boys, get the quartet, this time it was merle haggard and the outlaws. and so they asked the ucsb college republicans volunteers and i volunteer of course. and beingck an older student at the time because it spent some assignment rock 'n' roll i was older they said we are going to ogive a special job but we want you to drive the celebrities after they have been screened up to the venue. so i was in heaven and with the

beverly hills and earl haggard in the outlaws that was pretty. i get up there and sitting on a hey bill right about here when from right next assign incomes ron and nancy no secret service agents i start to get up and i just froze. because they had said it's not too longg after the assassinatin they said we have snipers on all of these hills. they jump up but think i'm trying to shoot him they will shoot me. he was gone in a flash and i miss w my plants under a chanceo see trump and reagan once by digging in the white house with president bush invited me into talk about the iraq war in history for an hour and a half that was kind of cool. >> is not qualified as iraq 'n' roll story will get to put in? wet snow. we have time for one more question in iraq 'n' roll story. >> follow-up with frank. you ended up on a good note. but to follow up on a question about the 2024 election i've

talked to a number of people of trump supporters and to tell you the truth i flipped over when he came out with i'm going to drain the swamp.p. >> he meant the lobbyist in case rates never met the lit fbi progress i don't think we knew or maybe he didn't know how deep it was. so that was a switch and i was little bit disappointed but there's a number of reasons and i've talked to people and i have thought about it myself. the 2024 and a lot of people irt know were trump supporters were converted trump supporters were disappointed in the 2020 election and the way he handled it. i can point to a couple of things. one is i thought the first debate and turned off these people. who might have been thinking about what i want this guy in the basement who can't think? or can i give trump another

chance? there is january 6 delayed response. one other criticism is why didn't he anticipate what was happening at the election? all of the things they. >> why weren't there lawyers all around t the country and why is the republican party? trumps all one guy. all that they could have been hiring but everyone saw this coming. where were they hiring lawyers and starting lawsuits back in january? why is it always on trump? he is not superhuman. far too often people blame him. look at the rest of the organization what did you do? weapon of every single think it was a fraud. we went to b vet this we forswer to president. if it's okay will be happy to

swear theus men to will swear tm and unanimously. we had is a lack of senate democrats have been cowardly throughout this occult patriot day by the way generally six bunch of patriots did but we all should have done which is demand a recount, demand these things be checked out. now, let me give you a another measure of hope here. the judges rate trump didn't do this, trumped intobl this, trumd in more in four years and any president in history has done in four years. not even close. one of things he did as a point of these judges what you can think for not having masks on the airplane yesterday. it was a trump judge. what bannon told me was that gorsuch, amy coney barrett and

kavanaugh were not necessarily selected first social conservative views. their test was their approach to the deep state and the administrative state and will they help rollback the administrative state? and they asked them specifically about the exxon case and how that was handled. so h sometimes if that kavanaugh is not voting the right way, remember what he is up there to do is to deconstruct the deep state, at least in terms of what trump thought he was bringing them into. please? no encores record did you mean chevron case not exxon? like chevron. and so let me leave you with this. you mention this, this is very important. do not hang your head. folks we are on the precipice of wa massive, earth shattering victory. what they want you to do is think it's not possible to think nothing is going to happen to

think mean tweets, this, that, the other part i am telling it we are on the verge of an earth shattering events. if you just stand up as jordan peterson would say, stick your chest out, walk with your shoulders back, we lobsters are going to retake the world and generate 2024. [applause] [applause] >> thank you larry, thank you everyone for being here with us tonight. if you are inspired by that fantastic talk bite larryes tred when free to purchase his latest book and some of the archives over there on the table. at the side ofwe the repeat thak you all for being here.me we will be in touch soon for future events coming up in the spring and summer at the harvard institute. thank you, and drive safe. [applause] ♪ american history tv, saturdays

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