bit and that's a good thing but it keeps me away often times from events like this. i fly to omaha nebraska meeting with the governor and members of congress giving a talk it's going to be great but the best part i won't be able -- i will be able to fly without a face facemask for the first time in years. in recent months figured out the best way to deal with that is to bring a few lollipops.

a tootsie pop can last a good 20 minutes. it's wonderful to seeth even though i haven't been to one of these in a while to see so many familiar faces and some new faces and to see a full house you really lift our spirits when people are in the building giving up your free time it tells us we are having an impact so thank you for being here. it's wonderful to see. if you are not very familiar with the heartland institute, we are a nonpartisan organization. we believe in free markets and we are here as lobbyists for freedoms. advocates for freedom.

we fight for freedom wherever we can. to develop, discover and promote free-market solutions to the problems in society. we are mostly known for our work in global warming fighting against alarmism and sound science and realism but we address a large number of issues. the core issues over the years have been education, financial budget issues, school choice in wparticular. then of late we've been active fighting big tech censorship, the great reset of capitalism to be imposed upon us and environmental social government agenda. we have our government relations team in the legislature and we've testified and presented the testimony more than 50 occasions in the first quarter ofof 2022 including 20 in-person

testimoniesof of where most of e times we've been invited by the legislators themselves to advocate and supporter of the free-market solutions and we do that because of the support of people like you so thank you once again for all of your support here in person and for those that donate to ther institute we are putting your money to good use. to donate more and we will keep doing more for you. i'm going to turn the microphone on and before i do i want to say one more thing. a student of history, i love history. and as much as our sessions here discuss policies and politics, i've been especially fired up for this talk for quite some time. ourra speaker i just wrote a bok that as much history as policy and governance. i purchased a book i'm not quite through with it yet but i read much of it. it's art compelling narrative. it's a quarter so i'm going to

turn over to youbu for a formal introduction but thank you for being here tonight. it's wonderful to see you. [applause] usually i'm so loud -- okay that works. fantastic. i swear we tested all this stuff dozens of times today. i want to welcome you might have noticed in the back these are friends from c-span so they are here to record this and it'sar also on the heartland page. ewe will get right to it. this is the second or third time. he graduated from arizona state university.

he switched gears again and then got a phd from the university of california santa barbara and mouniversity of dayton for 20 years and he's actually taught every single grade from seventh through college, so that's fantastic. he is the co-author with "the new york times" bestseller with history of the united states which is in its 31st printing with half a million copies in print. that book remains the best selling textbook in america and as you might know from the title it's supposed to be an antidote to that book in the people's history of the united states. in 2019 he founded the curriculum website that is available as a full curriculum from eight to 12 with larry

himself. you can see all of these were pulled from the major library of freedom here at the heartland institute so seven events that made america. how trump wanted, which he offered before the election. a patriots history of the modern world into volumes and the last time he presented the american president from 2018 to talk about his book dragon's layers, six presidents and the war. please welcome larry. [applause]

he went out of his way to introduce me to the hollywood community. he brought me out and hosted a nice wonderful steak dinner for such people after adam bohlman, ben shapiro and it was nice of him to do that so i'm always grateful to andrew for leading the way and it's interesting because in our home we had a nicet big yard with a picket fence and one day the dog was out there going crazy and there was a raccoon stock and as i usedo to tell my students i walked out and squeezed him so he could run off.

for those of you who don't know me, everything he said is more or less true. i ended up teaching at the university in 1985 i want to write books people would read and so around 1999 or so we started work on a textbook and wanted a book that we could use in our classes that wasn't biased and ended up writing a book and never thought we would sell it to a publisher in fact we thought it would be sold out of the back of a van like with the plastic straws in

california. a publisher did pick v it up ani went on to write three other books after that and then 2010 i was on the glenn beck show. you may remember this is when there was an audience of 3.5 million. that means seven times that of cnn. it's just staggering how many people. and i gave him a copy and his response was i know this book. do i know this book. anybody that's read it knows it's a a proper book and respone this is a great book so i knew he hadn't read the book. i get a call four days later and he says when you were on the show i hadn't read the book. i thought that's okay i understand. he said no i always read the guest book. i read it over the weekend. this is a great book. and he is an endorsement, he put it on his desk every night and talked about it three or four or five times a night with little

yellow post-it's and immediately it went to the top of amazon and the following week i got a call from the publisher and said your book is going to be on "the new york times" list this week. way to go. then i get a call a week later. your book is going to be in the top ten of "the new york times." way to go. thenen i get that call and i can hear him in the background and the champagne popping. i know it's going on back there. they said your book is going to be number one on "the new york times" list. you don't get it. it's going to be number one. i said no, that's great. you don't get it, it's going to be at target, costco, walmart. i said our book is going to be at walmart? thank you. [laughter] books everybody could read which is what my goal was, so over the years i've gone on to write a number of these others and most

recently i started thinking about in the context of donald trump and what he went through not b just 2020 but through his whole administration in terms of people undercutting ends working against him from his own attorney general down. so i thought trump isn't the only one. there've been other presidents thatbl have had this problem so when i started the book i thought i was looking at six different presidents with six different stories and as i began to put it together, i realized we are always talking about the same thing. all of these were related to. even though i start with lincoln and the slave swamp, the story starts a little bit before with the most important american that you've probably never heard of and that is martin van buren who created the-d modern day two-pay system and prior to that we had

one party and was called the republicans. it really was called the democratic republicans and you knows what that period was called, the era of good feelings because there was so little animosity. andrew jackson runs for the presidency in 1824 and loses in the corrupt bargain. martin van buren decided he's going to get in on the presidency but the story goes a lot deeper because you see what van buren was really trying to do was to create a political party that could keep the civil war from happening. he would do this by making sure that slavery could not be attacked even as the northern and midwestern states began to have more and more representatives to congress where sooner or later they would act on slavery. how do we keep this from happening in his answer was

money. we will buy thesese people off. even if you are in anti-slave from pennsylvania we will give you a government job if you just shut up and follow along. hewe called it the spoiled systm or patronage. as a result, and van buren didn't get this because his goal was to keep the federal government small and the states is stronger. what he'd done inadvertently was created a system in which the federal government began to grow with every single election because you had to give away jobs to get elected and by the way m the most powerful job in 1830 was the postmaster general of the unitedth states. who said i want to be postmaster general? nobody. back then everybody wantedst toe postmaster general because you had 80,500 jobs that you got to

give away so whoever the president appointed as the postmaster general, he had a lot of power. the whig party they are now on the same playing field as the democrats. i forgot to tell you the name of van buren's party. so they come along they are on the same playing field but the only wayto they can compete is o give away more jobs so in every election theyy promise jobs and more jobs. so the government starts to grow every single election and nobody notices until 1860 because part of van buren's strategy was to make sure that the presidency remained in the hands of someone who was not hostile to slavery. and of southern principles is the wayo that it was worded so you either get a democrat or a the northern man of principles inn office from 1828 and then

1860 u.s. got a big problem because you've got the northern man of northern principles not a group of slavery in office and even thoughs lincoln says i will not act on slavery, he can't help it. he is going to because he's going to appoint the federal marshal. he is going to appoint federal judges who will rule in the slave cases. he's going to appoint the custom commissioners that may allow off ships docking. he's going to appoint postmaster's who are going to allow abolitionist material. so lincoln'sn election caused te civil war that van buren had hoped to avoid because of van buren zone system. lincoln comes in and one of the first things he notices is he has all these armies of jobseekers lining up down the street at the time he ran the

government with two secretaries. lincoln ran the whole government with two secretaries and literally people could come inside the white house and stand there and form a long line all the way down the block waiting to talk to the president about jobs when he wasn't busy fighting a war, you know. so lincoln couldn't deal with this because his first job was to deal with the slaves. he kind of needed this to defeat the slave swamp which he did. he was the only to become completely successful in his goal. he did defeat. about the spoiled was still continued to grow. it w actually got worse because you had all these veterans who were now claiming benefits by writing of the congressman saying i need all these

benefits. it grew as more and more people suddenly had magic memory restoration. civil warhere was a and they entered so the role to begin to grow was crazy. so you literally have thousands of thousands of these jobseekers descending on washington with each new administration. one author of the day said the trains going f out would be folding into the incoming trains would be full with different people all seeking to take the jobs of those who just left. while, he didn't do a whole lot about this, but the next, and neither did hayes come up with the next guy, james garfield ran on a program of defeating the swamp. but one small problem, he will got killed and you know who killed him, he spoiled the

swamp. a stalwart and now arthur is president. he was thought to be very favorable but he's one of those rare people in washington when he gets in office he has the change of her to do the right thing and he begins to attack. but arthur had another problem. it kept him from serving a second term so he's out. i look at him as trump the first. cleveland won the popular vote all three times and he comes in and he is staying up late at night in the white house reviewing all these claims from those who were not veterans and throwing them out, vetoing them saying i'm not going to accept

this and we throw out thousands of these and so he finally worked withte congress to create something called the civil service act. this supposedly reformed the system. you know what happens in washington when they reform. it gets worse. so they reformed it and they took about a 10% of the total federal employees away from the president and put it in the hands of the civil service commission where you would take a test and however you place on the test is what job you would be eligible to serve in. but u the unseen ramification of this is now the president had to so many fewer jobs now they had to give away groups. so in our time to wright-patterson air force basea

saying i believe in the strong defense and everybody says yay andd go to colorado to the environmental protections. giving away the government jobs on a very small level into a very gigantic leveling it within withinthe government growth i td about all of a sudden it started to increase exponentially. mpmeanwhile, there is another tt is the trump swamp that consisted like twitter and google into these kind of giants today. teddy roosevelt was determined to do something about this. he feared the meeting deck. he feared the yellow press would

create such a firestorm not just against b the big businesses but against all businesses and he believed in his heart he was protecting all business from this mob that would be by the yellow press. now it's interesting i like teddy in a lot of ways and i don't like him at a lot of ways. you can't help but like somebody and egg government job assistant secretary of the navy the war breaks out and he resigns and goes to raise a volunteer cavalry unit that wants to get into action and see combat. not only does he fight but he wins and he is awarded the medal of honor and then as president he negotiates between japan and russia and is awarded a real nobel peace prize. can you imagine any modern-day president receiving both a medal of honor and a nobel peace

prize? roosevelt's one of failure, he never ran a business. i was convinced had teddy roosevelt because he succeeded in everything else needed if he had just run a business and i'm not talking about the cattle ranch because that was a fantasy land, that was a playground for him. he had other people run it. lehe didn't need payroll. i am convinced if he had run a business the antitrust activities would have been different. i don't know how but i think they would have been different. the t one of course that he doesn't take on is the media which at the time wasn't that big but over time in our time it's gotten to be monstrous. so the government continues to grow. agencies continue to grow. new agencies such as the fbi and cia were added so by john kennedy's time in office, he's he isconfronting a cia swamp and

kennedy's problem, his task he needs to get rid of the cia swamp but needs the cia too much to get rid of it. he n needs it for cuba, he needs it for vietnam or one time when kennedy comes into office there0 americans in south vietnam and when he is assassinated there were 16,000 so i do not by this notion kennedy's going to get us out of vietnam. funny line from 600 to 16,000 that isn't a trendline of getting out so kennedy feelset betrayed by the cia yet still needs to use them on many occasions that's why we consider him the first failure in the group is he doesn't do anything to bring the cia.

ronald reagan of course runs on a three way pledge one to defeat the soviet union, two to build back the economy and reduce the power and size of government. unfortunately for reagan, he needs the government, he needs the military and big business to accomplish together to so almost like kennedy he finds that he needs the agency he wants to get rid of too much to get rid of them and i will share one anecdote reagan the american president david stockman was a true believer in reducing the size of government and they were sending out memos to all the departments how are you coming on reducing the size of your department? how are you doing on reducing the size of the budget and he gets one letter, one memo back he says and this is the guy reagan appointed that believed in reagan's agenda he says we already have spent all of this year's budget and we spent part

of next year's budget so i don't think we are going to get around into cutting this anytime soon. it was an amazing admission once you're in the swamp it's a darn near impossible to rollback so by 1984, reagan had pretty much given up on his platform promises which was to reduce the size of government and he succeeded in the other two and pretty much had to give up on the third of reducing the bureaucracy. one very important thing happened between kennedy and reagan. congress had been appointing and creating these committees, these bureaus, these administrative agencies and empowering them but once they got in place, congress just let them go and basically any oversight over any of these bureaucracies or administrative

states just let them go so it then fell to the courts to try to handle these but unfortunately was started to happen is the court said congress is set up this agency and gave these powers. who are we to say that congress is wrong. missions and even set up their own private police forces as some you know, epa and some of the other organizations have so that was a major change in the bureaucracy between kennedy and reagan finally we get to trump and trump came in and he basically gets all for the other swamps, you know, he gets spoil swamp. he gets the the media swamp. he gets a cia swamp fbi swamp the deep state swamp and trump's appointees. don't help him out a whole lot jeff sessions, especially who's probably the worst single appointee in american history. i have to go back a long way to find somebody worse than jeff sessions and so trump finds

himself undercut at every point. he will order documents to be declassified. nothing happens amanda milius who is very good on this. she was in a pointy to the trump state department. she said they would send out memos to the embassies and they would get responses back from the embassy as well. you know, we're not going to do that for this reason or that reason and and you could never follow up and fire these people. so in the end i have lincoln cleveland and roosevelt as failed as successes or partial successes in draining their swamps, and i have kennedy and reagan and trump as either failures or partial failures in draining their swamps. so with that this is always the best part of the night when we do the q&a because i go back to rock and roll larry i go back to the unhinged larry. you know, this is the flaming drum solo where i almost burned down the human convention

center. okay. so let's just go ahead and open this up to questions and then i'll just take it as it goes from there, and we have a microphone circulating here. you're not on. there you go. you're on. okay. hi. hi larry. hi. hi larry. hello, we this deep state is a behemoth now huge and we know that personnel is power, right and we know that the top levels those are political. said they're going to do. who are not due what what is required of them by the by the president what i would like you to comment on is below this starting at the high levels of civil service and going down. there was a certain culture of people who are hired and that fact that they are rewarded for

finding new ways to add a little bit of power and find new new things to regulate and control. how does that work? and how bad is it? it's horrible. you know what reagan said was that the closest thing he'd seemed to eternal life on this planet was a government agency. and and you're absolutely right that you can change out the head of these agencies. but how much is that really do to affect the culture down within and we saw this with the fbi? did we not we kept hearing people like sean hannity tell us that it's only a few bad apples at the top but the rank and file fbi, they're fine. no folks. they are corrupt down to the studs. i mean all the way through if any of them were not corrupt, they would have stood up and said i'm blowing the whistle. i'm going to say. this is wrong. this is not according to our manual is not according to our regulations, and i'm going to call out jim comey and and mccabe and all these other guys

know that that didn't happen. so there is a total culture change that is required in addition to changing of personnel and i have some suggestions at the end as to how we might accomplish that i'll hold that off for a minute. well over here. yes, sir. thank you. larry. the thing that amazed me during the four years of trump presidency. is that every single day there was a scandal right they would and they would call them not seeing communists and beheading and everything else. russia russia russia, right? no, russia, so what was the basic premise of these republicans and democrats that hated trump hating him was it because he didn't pay his dues and he just went from tycoon to president, or was it some people that i talked to our liberals? they can't tell me why they hate trump and always comes down to tweets. yeah, mean tweets. yeah.

okay, so that's a great question trump represented and i think by far steve bannon is the best single analyst on on this entire thing other people have written about it the late angelo code avia. i don't know if you know him guys a phenomenal writer, but he represented a clash of the country class versus the ruling class and that is to say of the elites inside dc. there's a book by charles murray after losing ground. it's called coming apart. maybe seen coming apart phenomenal. and in at murray shows that based on wealth income and based on iq, and he used school of graduation as a proxy for iq. he said you could go through suburbs of washington dc and if you didn't have somebody picking up your laundry for you or getting you the starbucks coffee

you would never interact with a single person who wasn't in your income and iq school level he said on a single block every single person on that block had come out of ivy league schools, and that that's got to change. i mean, no asu is is no great shakes and university of montana is nothing fantastic, but gosh ten people from those schools to be better than the idiots. we have up there now, right so you've got this deep culture that that is is a problem now trump hit other buttons and and this button i love to talk about this one. this is why the jonah goldberg's and the david fringes french fry and the chris hayes is these guys are all so so such trump haters and theory is this never were conservatives. they never were conservatives. what happened was they would

assume a conservative position in cocktail parties and in speeches for the heartland institute or young americans or wherever they would go and and they would make these conservative sounding speeches up till trump because they knew nothing was going to change and so at the end of the night they could go back to their liberal buddies at the cocktail party. he said well, you know, we're being nice to provide was overturned, but we know that's never gonna happen. oh, they click glasses and they'd walk off right and here comes trump. he says no, we're gonna actually do the things i campaign on we're gonna change this country and that hit him like a brick wall because all of a sudden the threat was that policies were actually going to change and they could no longer go in front of these people and pretend to be supporting conservative positions. if it actually meant they're gonna have to defend real conservative change. so i think that was from here

um, you know, this there was a really surprising to me a decision in florida that ruled against the cdc and the mandates and if you think about how far the swamp is going i guess to the cdc's now part of it and who knew but it it seems as though this was a significant significant decision against it the the state i mean, so what are your thoughts on the significance of yes that decision, you know, and today is hitler's birthday, but we really need to celebrate yesterday, which was freedom day in america right and ask freedom day, so here's what i would say about that. i would urge you to watch the podcast of a guy named robert barnes. who is a lawyer on locals viva barnes and he has been predicting these the outcomes of these legal cases almost exactly as they turn out and he said the

osha case would be ruled against biden, but he said the military vac's case would not because for so long there was a precedent you go into the military you go overseas you get all these shots and so it's going to be really hard to overturn that so this was huge and you have all these liberals out there screaming today a judge in florida overturn the will of the people i'm in. mean kind of like ruby wade sing so it was it was a massive massive shift. the ground is shifting and not just there across the board to sandisk today my gosh. this guy is a tornado he is taking on disney and they're saying you know what you guys have existed for months what 67 68 is when disney world was found you guys have existed for 40 years on the largest of florida taxpayers. you don't pay all the taxes. you should you have total autonomy in your little reedy creek development place. we're gonna change all that and boy the heads are just exploding

here. so i do think bannon is right. i don't agree that he we're gonna see a hundred seat turn over, you know, but i do believe that we're on the verge of a groundswell, and i just tweeted out. oh walls other that's my twitter walls other. it's a play on my movie other walls to fall walls others. so look me up on on at wall's other and i tweeted an article this afternoon about this groundswell, and it's not just here folks. it's going on across the world people are rising and look what happened in hungry or bond one with 90 percent. i mean, these are saddam hussein level numbers right where the ballot says saddam hussein kill me in torture my family, you know, these are the 90% like santa who's saying numbers and and but this is occurring everywhere across the world. the people are i know it's a catch phrase, but they are rising up and isn't this fabulous the international rise of all of these people is

turning marks on its head because they are rising up for free markets and freedom against the communist overseers. it's astounding we have oh, yeah, sir, please. yourself and don't take too long. okay, mark wire miller hello, larry. they that's too long. i'm sorry you're done. they often hold the microphone. they don't want to give the microphone to a crazy person like me. first of all, you have a new twitter follower. i'm following you if you want to follow me back. thank you so quickly. i was in springfield this morning. i spoke for three minutes at the illinois state board of education and i told him they should get rid of it because it's a wasteful group exactly with that in mind. what do you i was hoping donald trump would have eliminated the federal department of education instead. he hired betsy devos and nothing really happened. so when you say nothing says when you say nothing happened, that's a win for us. and strange to sound that's a

win if you put in a whole bunch of bureaucrats and at the end of four years you could say nothing happened i go. yay. we won that for your exchange. okay, go ahead. so i was hoping he would and i'm a trump supporter. yeah, and i think he's coming back but why i was hoping they would get rid of the department education. and why didn't he get rid of the department education? why didn't he get rid of half a dozen departments. he was he was hamstrung from the beginning. i mean when you come in and amanda melia said that she estimated there were 60 mega people in the entire administration. now a president alone appoints 3,000 3,000 and out of those 3,000 you've only got 60 mega dedicated people going to be hard to change things that way to actually get rid of a department. you would have to have a department head who was committed to getting rid of that department and there's going to be that's very hard to do. you know, you're gonna have to set up a ceo of ford who's committed to getting rid of ford

automobiles, right? that's it that's equivalent of that. i think that would have been even a bridge too far for trump to get rid of a whole cabinet level agency. reagan could have done it, but he didn't have the political clout to do all three of those things, right? when trump comes in again, he's going to have to come in with a flamethrower. a flamethrower and i mean, you know with an exterminator right behind him, terminix right behind him, right because they're gonna because they're only going to get one more shot at this if we do it wrong next time. we probably aren't going to get another shot in any of our lifetimes. yes, sir. thank you. larry for tracking through 200 years of history. how about present day? how would you describe the power structure in washington who's running the place? i do not believe biden is running anything. and by the way on my twitter, i have all of these nicknames. biden is the rutabaga that demented pervert and nancy

pelosi is botoxxic. mitch mcconnell is your little so anyway, i don't think i don't think biden is running anything. i don't think obama is running anything because he's too lazy. i don't think he has the energy the time or he wants to play video games and swim, you know, and and so i think it's a cabal. ron klein is the head of one cabal group. there's some green wackadoodles out there who are in charge of another cabal group and you go through each interest group the education crt group and and they're all vying for biden's mind right and and kind of the last thing that he hears going out the door is kind of what he mumbles when he repeats his word salad of nonsense. so that's who's running washington. you have a whole bunch of rhino republicans who are committed to keeping the swamp in place and they're all bought off by something most of my big pharma.

if you wonder why we had the vaxes and the vaxes and the vaxes for four doses. it's because we got people in washington who are making a ton of money off of big pharma and never once wanted to mention ivermectin or in any of the other things that might mediate the disease. so you've got the rhinos in there and that's why i think the next two elections are absolutely critical if the seven trump endorsed senate candidates all win. it'll be a stretch, but they could do it if they all win that would change the republican makeup by 14% that one election by 14% if you bring those seven in and they're committed and they actually do what they say they're going to do no, no guarantees there with dr. oz or you know with vance you don't know but they're better than the other guys if they actually do what they say and they come in you could then see the next echelon of the ted cruz's and

the rick scotts and and the marshall blackburns moving over hardcore on their side and it's an overton window that begins to pull the whole senate back to the right and then in 2024 now you've got a shot now, you've got seven or eight seats and if the waves big enough folks, there's not a seat in this in this world. that's safe. i mean the democrats are just now figuring this out. there's a peace and political or the hill they kind of alternate the bad news for the democrats this week and they said basically we're looking at a wipe out and and we're looking at potentially in 24 a veto-proof proof majority in both houses. this is the she's saying this so i personally think we'll get somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 seats, but bite me is decline is sure. it's not going to change. it's going to keep going down. he's in the 30s and at least three poles now. i think you'll be in the high 20s by election time 2024, maybe even lower and that should be

sufficient to wipe them out. i mean just crush them. speaking of wiping out larry. you said ivermectin and i thought oh my god. this video is gonna be banned from youtube. oh, there we go, and i remembered well everything you say makes us paying from you. that's right. it's gonna be fine. we have we have a question over here. and then we have a question over here for dahlia. we'll start with you dan. good evening. thank you. my name is dan robin. i was wondering how you might have considered the history of jimmy carter who i think was i consider him to be one of the great deregulators of our time. it wasn't carter that deregulated all that deregulation had been put in place actually back in the late part of the nixon administration when you look at airlines when you look at trucking when you look at gas in my book reagan the american president, i have a chapter on carter called the worst president ever with an asterisk and then at the bottom of the page i said until barack obama, but now i have to revise it to say until barack obama and

joe biden so, you know and my nickname for him is jesus carter. because he's so pompous, you know, he's just so perfect that you know, and i don't consider him to be a very good president all i think he was a disaster and whatever deregulation that was there was not his doing he inherited it from others. hello. i have a question. do you know anybody who tried to reduce bureaucracies reduce human resources by paying top bureaucrats and continuing paying them a bureaucracy remains smaller in the meant aligning consent right what you're saying? this is a actually a suggestion by steve bannon, which is a very good and so i said give you three three measures for hope here first. what do we do about the swamp? here's one thing you can do. this is band suggestion. you buy these people out. you buy out their their contracts you say i will pay you 20% more of your remaining salary to get out and retire now.

now this is going to cost a lot of money, but it's a one-time investment because once that person is out of that job. what do you do close the job? it's no more open for business. you will never staff that job again, and you could believe me you'd get rid a lot of washington if you were to buy out these jobs and then just shut them off. okay, that's suggestion. number one number two. you've got to get the bureaucracy out of dc. you got to get the administrative state out of dc and trump actually started to do this. he began moving some of the bureau of land management and bureau of the interior offices out to omaha, nebraska and you know and and farmington i say put them all in farmington, new mexico. you'll never hear from him again, right anybody been to farmington. oh, look, it's a uranium mine. all right, that's all you need to know farmington's are uranium mine. so anyway move these offices out get them into the interior of america the very least what that

will do is to get them around more ordinary americans more of the time so that they see the impact of their policies. they see nothing back in dc. they're totally insulated in a complete echo chamber and then the third thing we got to do is vote and vote in mega oriented people who are actually going to change the system. we can only we can only you do we can only vote for the people. we're in front of us at the time right? but but do what you can do to replace replace these people with mega candidates. great. i have a question. oh, i'm sorry. go ahead first. yeah, not the trump is a nixon and trumper equivalent. but can you give any insight into the watergate? yeah, i mean you certainly seem like you had a deep state operation the fbi ran the whole thing against nixon. what was that all about and with respect to what we know now about the trump, you know, what happened with trump. that's a great question on watergate, and i'm going to give you an answer very few

historians would ever give you and that is we don't know. the best guess i have is the kalani gitlin explanation that said that john dean. found out that the democrats had a address book of a call girl in their possession. and it was his then girlfriend soon to be his wife maureen dean. her name was in this book. and it was dean who authorized the break-in and it was dean who told them what to look for which is why they're nowhere near the chairman of the democratic party's office. they're over in some yahoo's office back in the back part, which happened to have that diary they knew exactly where to go. and so i think that and dean then lied to nixon about it and said, this is a national security issue and and nixon. well, we've got to cover it up then right and and so they they went on and and got the cia to intervene with the fbi and say this is national security and

then it completely went to heck from there nixon is not innocent. he obstructed justice, you know, he should have gone to jail, but he was not guilty of the original crime that everybody thinks he was guilty of which is ordering the break-in. i don't think that was that's my take them. so it was just because of a personal picadillo had nothing to do with he was trying to get rid of important agencies or anything. well, i've seen picadillos and someone be pretty big. i'm watch out for those big piccadillos. well, that was the first that's right. the second one. that's right. but he apparently had directed both of them as far as the man he was yellow two. he didn't put together to. right the first one he is perfect they weren't they written out it was hunt the put it together. the question and again if you have another these raise your hand your book. larry is titled dragon slayer 6

presidents and their war with the swamp. i'm going to ask you about the 2020 election. i mean in 2016. nobody thought trump would win right new york times. well, i did well you did. i don't think trump did but i don't even think that's debated and it depends on who you talk to in his inner circles or whether he thought he was going to win right but my point being that you know hillary was going to be the third obama term, right? the swamp is excited. they already had all their plans all the things that were going to do and then trump wins, right and trump is going to oppose the swamp. he does things as you outlined just a minute ago moving bureaucracies out into the hinterlands. so they'll quit lovely. yeah, things like that and so my my personal feeling and i think this is shared by a lot of people in this room and this is going to be sure to get this thing banned from youtube for sure because never written all i want to make sure the algorithm hits it. all right i could sing i could sing and that would guarantee. yeah, keep it so the 2020 election. it was a little unusual and i

would say but after all of that i started to think to myself and i think a lot of people thought themselves. there's no way they're going to allow trump to win. the media was against him. they didn't report on the hunter biden stuff. they suppressed this they did that the time magazine article about how they fortified the election, right? they saved the country nice people think they saved the country for my greetings. they fortified it right because of trump had a second term then really the swamp is in trouble then it could be drained, but they were holding him off keeping him tied up with this russia collusion stuff and all the two impeachments for crying out all this stuff. there and i always thought to myself. there's no way the swamp was going to leave this up to the people. they weren't going to take the chance that he would get reelected. now. is that a conspiracy theory? is that crazy talk? do you have any time magazine since i mean time magazine came out and laid it all out exactly what they were doing. i wrote in how trump won. i finished the book my part of the book in about october of

2016, and i said trump's gonna win the the election with 306 electoral votes. the final was what 320? 300 300 i saw by six i was off by six. i said he went between 300 and 320 electoral votes he won with 306. that's what it was. and so i was sure based on the voter registration numbers. i was seeing in ohio in florida, north carolina. i was sure he was going to win. i really didn't think they could steal it because i thought that trump was going to get at least 10 million more votes than he got before and guess what he got 13 million more votes than before, right? so what happened? well, i'm from arizona. they did an audit which nobody wants to talk about in terms of the actual findings. they found i'll just give you one data point 17,000 duplicate ballots. i guarantee you all 17,000 of those were for biden. and but we can't prove it because you can't violate secret

ballot and you can't call up somebody say, how did you vote? right so but when you got 17,000 duplicates and and biden wins by 11,000 and that's just one metric and there were dozens of other metrics totaling at least 57,000 more votes just in maricopa county not even in all of arizona and we know that the counting was stopped simultaneously in five big cities. gee, how does that happen? so but i would say it went even further. i think there was a conspiracy early on if you want to use that term i'm going to blame mike pence. i think mike pence was involved in this and i think that he convinced trump now. i'm a i'm a big supporter of federalism trump was the most federalist president. had since washington. because his first response to every single issue is this is congress's job. they should fix it. second time this is congress's job. they should third time. this is congress's job if they don't fix it, i will but he

always tried to get the right department or the right agency to do their job. he foisted as much as he could off on the states to get them to do their job. so here comes the china virus and i refuse to call it covid. here comes the china virus and pence and his chief of staff go to trump and they say you know what mr. president, this would be a great opportunity to practice federalism. why don't you put control of the administration the china virus in the hands of the states? trump said that's his inclination. he said sure that's good idea. unfortunately, you know what this did no state had the medical wherewithal that the expertise in the medical examiner's office and the department of health office to compete with the cdc or the nih. so what happened all of these state medical officers started looking back to the cdc and ni saying well, what do you say and dr. fallacy was right there to

tell him exactly what to think and so i think pence plan this it turned out that the power was handed over to dr. fallacy through playing on trumps federalism and if trump had retained the power himself, i guarantee after two months who this is bologna. this is hogwash. we're not doing we're gonna open the country back up and he would have issued executive orders to that effect. now would they have been overridden? i don't know it would legislate your pass laws. i don't know but i guarantee you that things would not have evolved the way they did and therefore added that layer on to all the other. did you mentioned jim all these horrible things that were going on? which i think is the the thing that really sunk him was the the downed economy as a result of the the china virus. i think even with the fraud he would have beat the fraud. if not for the china virus. every republican who's residence going to be asked by our corrupt media. do you think the 2020 election was on the up and up? one do you think the 2020 election was on the up and up

and two? how should say ron desantis answer the answer that question? no, i do not believe it was on the up-and-up. i think we have abundant evidence of fraud. we don't know who it benefited, but the chances are overwhelming that it benefited joe biden and i do not believe joe biden got 81 million votes in here in rwanda are in the soviet union. they didn't get that many votes. i'm sorry. that would be my answer. and that's what a republican candidate should say. yeah, definitely right and i think that you're going to be surprised at how many times if you just stand up. this is one thing trump taught everybody if you just stand up just stand up and fight back and desantis his internalize this right carrie lake out in arizona running for governor has internalized this you got to see this woman on the media. she destroys the media you start standing up and they will back down but you got to stand up first. no rock and roll questions so

casio and i was going to ask this question before you went into all this. how do we especially in illinois and crook we call it crook county? sure. there's a lot of potential for election fraud. yep. and how do we fight this? i was in election judge at the last election and i think we need more conservative judges to be involved. but what else can we do? it's really very frustrating in a state like, illinois. you're behind enemy lines. so you're just going to have to fight it out, you know one foxhole at a time, but every foxhole is important get as many people in the election boards as you can oversee as many, you know, and you start working your way back into to cook county before you know, it you're gonna have all the immediate suburbs and before, you know, you're gonna have some of the interior of the city and folks hispanics are coming over to the republican party like you cannot believe and it's one of the most amazing boomerangs in political history that that the democrats

who encourage all these illegals even illegals who are coming in according the polling by richard barris are trending conservative because they come from countries like el salvador and guatemala that are hell holes and and they want they want a part of the american life, you know. so what's happening is i think we can take these back. we're already winning over the hispan. vote we are very slowly making inroads into the black vote we can do it, but it's a it's a slog. it's a slog. question right here. sorry. okay, who are you again? taylor president of the heartland institute so through fire and rain your your president through fire and rain. that's right. so getting back to your book one thing that fascinated me and you touched on this in one of your comments when you said the three that you considered successes and three that you considered failures and sequentially the first three you examine were

successes and the last three were failures. so if you flip them around, how successful. do you think those first three would have been in the day and age of the last three and how successful would the last three be if they had the circumstances of the first three so really what were the circumstances was it more circumstances or wasn't more tactics and battlefield brilliance. that's that's an a historical question like, okay. so so you give the confederates ar-15s do they win the civil war? all right, so so look lincoln was going to be a great president in any age you put him in. he had the courage to make the right decisions the steadfastness to fight for them. and i think if you put him in a war with the swamp, he would have probably done better than even cleveland i think cleveland was a much narrower man was not a big thinker, but he was absolutely focused on the task at hand. he's you want fixing your plumbing, right? you want grover cleveland fixing

your plumbing. tr was very much a man of whatever struck him at the time and if the sport if the swamp well that's that trump faced had struck teddy roosevelt. he would have fought back probably even harder than trump and gotten very very bloody and he might have been impeached and taken out removed, right because he would have fought in a much different way. reagan style was such that he would have tried conciliation as much as possible with the south but i think in the end he would have ended up doing the same thing. we're not going to back down on these essential points of american freedom, so you know you get into these historical questions. i feel like thanos with the the time ring, you know jumping back and forth with time, but that's my best best shot on a historicism. we have more questions raise your hand and you can ask a question. we got one right here. one of my concerns is that people are so clueless today.

after church at the coffee hour. i talked to these people friends very successful people. they don't want to talk about anything other than their golf game. we live in a retirement village right now people that are successful. they don't want to talk about anything serious. so i'm really concerned and as we know universities today only 4% of the faculty are republicans. and meaning only 2% are conservatives and the people that do get newspapers the chicago the chicago tribune has turned left to left. so i'm concerned about how clueless people are now. i think the republicans are going to do well, but there's only one reason is that when they get gas inflation, that's the key issue and that's gonna defeat democrats. yeah, that is because people are informed they just don't like to pay under informed that the pain of the gas pump is a form of

information. that's a very powerful form of and so let me take your question this way you're familiar with the declaration of independence and you're familiar with the line that jefferson said that as long as i can't i can't quote it exactly as long as he's evils are tolerable men will tolerate these evils and in other words people will not rise out of their comfort level until it gets extremely comfortable which is why i want biden to stay in office for two more years because i want to be so incredibly uncomfortable these people go we will never put another democrat in office in our entire lives now in terms of of you know retirement. village and whatnot. don't forget in 2010. it was the retirees who stormed into the tea party and this is one of the problems was that the tea party was an older movement and didn't have a lot of youth

in it to kind of take over. so, you know, i'm no spring chicken and i'm pretty active. hi larry. hi. i'm joyed it very very much. so i'm very concerned again. i went trump to win again and get back into the race, but he had such poor advisors when he was in the white house and people around him just to be trade him and as he improved is he any better now down it in florida. he seems to be surrounded with people again who might be informing him doing to do the wrong right by the wrong things. he's endorsing some candidates for senate that are really bad. well now i i push back on that because i was not advanced fan when he first came out but the

more i began to look at mandel. i realized he's too corrupt. you just can't let him he's part of the swamp and the same thing with with higgins and dr. oz was far from my favorite candidate, but you know, it's what they they said about democracy and how democracies the worst government in the world except for all the others and and dr. oz is the best candidate given the others right? i am more. test with people who used to walk the wrong path like kerry lake who voted for obama who now is consistently not only saying the right thing but pushing back. it's not just saying the right thing so that you can in front of donors. it's are you saying the right thing in front of the tv cameras? and and so i hope i think you're going to see vance and oz and some of these other guys. i hope it's blake masters in arizona form this cotery of maga senators that's going to be very powerful. there's a lot of things about a lot of these people. i don't like and the thing in tennessee with what's her name morgan ortegas. that was a bad pick, but you know people who supported robbie starbucks, he had a whole lot of issues. he had a lot of issues. he was not a voter in that district. i mean, there's so you're always it's always a crapshoot and i

could ask any one of you here. and so you've run companies. how many people do you know that you can appoint to positions that you can absolutely trust and who will carry out your goals and objectives? most of us can't point to more than three or four people right? how many of those are competent? what right if it's my friends maybe one or two, right? and so you're stuck relying on people's advice whom you don't know all that much, but hey, they're in the republican party. supposedly. they have your best interest at heart. and so who's he getting advice from now? i don't know, but i have a feeling as we get close to the election. it's going to be two people. done and eric and that's only those the only ones i want him taking advice from other than maybe steve bannon if steve can. behave so sorry about that. got a question over here. repeat the questioner. roman goalash the question i

have larry is if trump were president. do you think putin would have invaded ukraine? no, not a chance not a chance and but here's another interesting thought question. maybe and i know we're enduring some horrible stuff, and i know what bite me is doing is just terrible. but maybe it's better that trump wasn't in with a lukewarm senate and a lukewarm house. maybe we need to refine these people for another four years so that when they come through the fire, you know the story about gideon in the bible and how he was sent down to fight an army and he had 30,000 men and god said that's too many. you need to get rid of him because they're not committed and he gave them a test. have them go draw water out of the lake and if they lap it up, i forget the story they lap it up. they stay and they put in their hands. they they go i forget that so it gets rid of he gets rid of 27,000 of them. and so you still got too many you got 3000 you need to get rid of those.

the point is an army of lambs led by a lion is far more powerful than an army of lions led by a lamb. right, and so if we can just get a linen took the soviet union with 20,000 devout followers a nation of a hundred and sixty million people only one third of the americans believed in the cause and the american revolution and look at what they did, right, so it's not numbers. it's dedication and and willingness to to go fight and engage the enemy and we at the right people in there. it's doable not saying it's gonna happen i'm saying it's doable. i don't like the question. i'm going to ask now. well, i don't like the answer. okay. well a lot of people who i know who who are sort of hidden in this. area who voted for trump and who support is supported his positions.

feel that his ability to be elected is is diminished by his personality. they're turned off by his nastiness is the way they put it and worse. so my question is does what are his prospects or is somebody like desantis or somebody who is? is a a trump follower a trump light trump. yeah with who's who's telegenic? who's who's who can tell you who you know, you don't want to throw tomatoes at him because he said nasty things. well, there's an old saying you can't have false and have him thin. right you you can't have jim brown and have him have sprinters speed. i mean, there's a every great person and every person who achieves something great usually does so in spite of a handicap not because of their their personal power i mean moses had

a speech impediment and this is the guy you're going to choose to lead the -- really, you know, so i don't think that that aspect of trump is as big a deal as many many. i think it's an excuse. for a lot of people. i don't think it's an action and this is why i want the pain to continue folks. i want bite me to continue in office and ratchet up that pain. i hate saying that for my fellow americans, but you need to feel your alcoholics and you need to get to the bottom as before. you're gonna say i am a drunk and i need to reform. genetics es is as important as it was to kennedys. my thought would be will the democrats put somebody in there who will be a nice guy or gal and will win votes on that basis? it won't work. it won't work because they are now too saddled with inflation. they're the party of war. they're the party of of covid

and mass and vaccines all of the bat. look at barris's polling barris is polling is staggering trump is beating to sandus in some pulls by 50 points 50. it's not even close. he's beating biden badly. sometimes by eight or nine points now, what's it going to be like in 24? it's going to be mass. they know it folks. they know this they know that they're teetering on the brink and why am they removed by harris because nobody even the democrats nobody wants harris in there and so mark my words if you see harris go watch out the 25th amendment is coming for old joe, but until harris goes he's safe and some people think he appointed her just for that reason, but also remember this that the next veep has to be confirmed by both the house and the senate and and so it has to be done quickly if they're going to get rid of her and put in somebody like mayor pete.

right. no, that's the guy they want. that's the guy they want because gay trump's black now. right if you're black get back if you're gay you're okay. yes. oh, no, the gay now trump's black. and so mayor pete is the next in line. doesn't have a chance against trump notion and they're they're increasingly painting themselves in this narrower and narrower corner as you see with the disneyland stuff that they're willing to go to the mat for pedophiles for pizza. they need to just rename, you know, splash mountain groomer mountain or something like that. all right, so something you said triggered him to say something which triggered a much more questions. so we have one right back here. i'm here as long as you need me. okay, i paid by the hour. thank you. thank you larry. this is just fascinating. my name is vitas. let's go eight time zones to the east what do you think putin swamps are or even further east? what do you think? she's swamps? are these are that's great question putin is not stupid.

he may be a murderer, but you know, he's like a mafia boss. he's very smart and who he killed and he i think legitimately saw don bass and some of those other regions in ukraine as threats, especially as the drumbeat was coming to bring ukraine into nato. that was just simply not tolerable for him. does he have people want to take him out? oh absolutely. is he going to take them out first if he can if he can find them he will now gee has very big problems and american media doesn't want to talk about this at all, but the chichams have huge environmental issues. they have a declining birth rate, right? we all think of china. it's just this growing and no they have a declining birth rate and and one person mentioned this to me. how eager do you think they are to send young men off to war when they've spent a generation building up their only sons and their young men they really going to send them off to be slaughtered on taiwan. they can take taiwan anytime

they want to but it will not be pleasant. it will cost millions to take taiwan because there's a very narrow landing area. i've read a very thorough analysis of war between taiwan and china. it wouldn't be it wouldn't be pleasant. they don't have nearly the semiconductors we're talking about this with steve today. the taiwan has taiwan's a semiconductor chip giant in the world and then what happens if japan the philippines other countries decide to chip in and start whittling down china's military. i always apply to china. what was always applied to russia china is never as strong as she looks china is never as weak as she looks right. so those two both have serious serious issues and right now we're actually helping the russians by making their oil more valuable that because all of a sudden you made putin's oil, you know? the equivalent of cryptocurrency. i mean it's amazing.

so we have time for a couple more. questions we can have one here and one here at least one here. go ahead sir. we'll get you hi. i'm commander. gdale brown united states navy retired, and i just have a question about i watched for example the catanji brown confirmation on tv 57 ford or 5347. right? and i've been i've seen a few elections in my life. and we all know it's always 41 or 49% 51 percent fifty one forty nine all the time when or what is take? for this country to have elections where half the people aren't -- at the end. when are we going to get to that point? i hope not a sodom hussein ticket like you mentioned earlier. well, you know look at the civil war. i mean my gosh lincoln wins with i don't know what just just around 40% of the vote the greatest president next to washington in american history and only gets 40% of the vote.

so it's the nature of a democracy. i think especially our democracy which is a a constitutional republic and madison said he says you can't get rid of this. he called them factions in federalists. i think it's 10 where he said that you need to have factions and of course washington hate it parties, but you need to have parties you need to have one faction checking another because this is the way people get their ideas out into the public and yes, it's become significantly corrupted in a lot of ways over time, but still i like conflict. you only get pearls when you get the chafing right you let steal sharp and steal. i don't think we were all meant to stand around in a circle and kumbaya, i think we were meant to get out there contest our ideas always be respectful when the other side wins, which is what has not happened about the last 20 years really since reagan they kind of gave up being respectful if we won, but, you know catanji brown and she doesn't know what a biological

woman is. so, you know, that's just that's great. you have a question, sir. yes, i do. frank skorski. yep. helicopter fan six of them. well, no, that's that's sort of why mines. i'm polish. that's what an eye. anyway, i don't thank you for writing the book only because i'm i'm an old man. i've got a young son and daughter and you know, i've been pretty depressed. and knowing that we have gone through -- like this before makes me feel that we can go through this --. absolutely. that's the one thing the second thing is. are you going to work for trump? because a guy with your knowledge got to work for trump if you have it all undone, and eric's shoulders if he'd asked me i'd work for him in a minute. i really thought he benefited from bannon even though the the personalities are very much in conflict and you had some leak problems there, but you need people like that around you need people who can tell you know, and you need people who can you know stand up to you i would i

would love to work for trump and i came this close to meeting him two times one time was right after the election, but before the inauguration, i was at trump tower to meet with bannon about this book and trump had just left maybe 30 minutes before the next time is in 2017 just before bannon retired and i said is that is the boss here today goes now. he just headed off for new jersey. so i miss ice and i miss shaking hands with ronald reagan by this distance ray i was doing in an event for ronald reagan at the western white house, but it was over the hill. it wasn't of any of you been to the ranch who's been to the ranch. okay small right really really say the whole house is about the size of this room it's a really small house you can't hold public events there because they just don't have the facilities for it so they were holding an event at another guy's ranch over the hill it's called in concert at the white house and it would have beverly sills of

the metropolitan opera was this this hostess and she would host once a month a different musical or entertainment act and you get the beach boys and you get the dave brubeck quartet and this time it was merle haggard and the outlaws and so they asked that ucsb college republicans for volunteers and i volunteer of course and being an older student at the time because i'd spent so much time in rock and roll, you know, i was older than most other students. they said well, we're going to give you a special job. we want you to drive the celebrities after they've been screened up to the venue. and so i was in a van with beverly sills and merle haggard and the outlaws right? i mean that that was pretty well so i get up there. i'm sitting on a hay bale right about here waiting for my next assignment in comes run and nancy with no secret service and i start to get up and i just froze because they they had said, you know, there's not too long after the assassination attempt. they said we have snipers on all these hills like jump up and

he's all think. i'm trying to shoot, you know, they'll shoot me and he was gone in a flash and i missed i missed my chance to see trump twice and to see reagan wants but i did get into the white house with president bush. he invited me into talk about the iraq war and history, you know for an hour and a half. is kind of cool does that qualify as a rock and roll story that we're going to get before the end? no good because then we have time for one more question in a rock and roll story. i hate to follow up frank because you end up on a good note but to follow up on a you know, a question about the 2024 election trump. you know, i've i've talked to a number of people trunk supporters and tell you the truth. i i flipped over when he came out with i'm gonna drain the the swamp by which he meant the lobbyists and k street. i never meant the fbi that we do. i don't think we knew he maybe he didn't know how deep it was. so that was the switch and i was a little bit disappointed. you know, that that didn't occur but there's a number of reasons,

but you know, i've talked to people and i thought about it myself but the 2024 and a lot of people that i know that were trump supporters or converted trump supporters, we're disappointed and in the the 2020 election and the way he handled it and i can i can point to a couple things one is i thought the first debate between him and biden i thought i thought he did horrible job without his tactics. we're just horrible. it turned off a lot of people who might have been, you know thinking about you know, the way i went this guy in the basement who can't think or can i give trump another chance and he just bullied him and then there's january 6th his delayed response, but one of the criticism is is why didn't he anticipate what was happening at the election? i mean, what was all this to understand all the all the things maricopa county and all i want their lawyers all around the country. why did the republican party? trump's one guy and you know, we do have this thing called a republican national committee.

and they could have been hiring lawyers. everybody saw this coming people were talking about why weren't they hiring lawyers and starting lawsuits back in january? why is it always on trump? i mean, you know, he's not superhuman and i think far too often people blame him when in fact we ought to be looking at the rest of the organization. what did you do? what would happen if every single republican senator in congressman on january 6th had stood up and said we think the election was a fraud we want to vet this before we swear in a president and if it's okay, we'll be happy to swear him in we'll swear him in unanimously, but we want to see the check out the fraud for and what we've had is a lack of of support, especially on the part of the congressional and senate democrats who've just been cowardly just cowardly throughout this i call it patriot day by the way, january 6th is patriot day now january, it's patriot day because a bunch of patriots did what we all should have done which is a

recount demand that these things be checked out now. let me let me give you another measure of hope here the judges. okay. well trump didn't do this trump didn't trump did an incredible. he did more in four years than any president in history has done in 40 more not even close and one of the things he did was to point all these judges which you can thank for not having mass on the airplane yesterday. it was a trump judge. okay what bannon told me was that gorsuch? amy connie barrett and kavanaugh were not necessarily selected for social conservative views. their litmus test was their approach to the deep state and the administrative state and will they help roll back the administrative state and they asked them specifically about the exxon case and and how that was handled. so sometimes if you think kavanaugh isn't voting the right way remember what he's up there

to do is to deconstruct the deep state at least in terms of what trump thought. he was bringing them in to do so, i want to one last question. oh, no. please don't course. did you mean chevron case not exxon case chevron? chevron? yes. okay, great. and so so, let me leave you with this, you know because something you mentioned this this is very important do not hang your heads folks. we are on the precipice of a massive earth-shattering victory and what they want you to do is think it's not possible to think nothing's going to happen to think mean tweets to think this or that or the other i'm telling you. we're on the verge of an earth-shattering event, and if you just stand up as jordan peterson would say stick your chest out, you know walk with your shoulders back. we lobsters are gonna retake the world in january 2024.

thank you, larry. thank you everyone for being here with us tonight if you are inspired by that fantastic talk by larry schweikert. you are free to purchase not just his latest book, but he has some of the archives over there at the table on the on the table at the side of the room. thank you all for being here. we will be in touch soon for a future events coming up with the spring and summer here at the heartland institute. thank you and drive safe.

you you know who our guest speaker is, so i'm not going to a pine about his qualifications credentials and achievements. which are both impressive and far too numerous to mention. so instead i'd like to point out just a few things that might have escaped your notice if you're anything like me when you saw this video you realize there's probably a side to james o'keefe you never knew. so having seen it you may not now be surprised to learn that in 2002. he was the