1:10 p.m. eastern on the wonder 50th anniversary of yellowstone national park native wyoming resident bob richard talks about the history of the park and lead tours for nearly 40 years. at 2:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, president dwight eisenhower's grandson, david, author of the book going home to glory among more of life with dwight d eisenhower 1951 -- 1959 talks about his leadership in the military and the forces that shaped him. exploring the american story watch american history tv saturdays on cspan2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. ♪ >> joining is now is journalist and author glenn will talk about his new book democracy in just a

minute. we are at the libertarian freedom festival in las vegas. and you are here. is there an oddity there? what there is definitely an oddity. that is obvious i've long been as being for this particular conference. at the same time very early on what might focus was concerns over bush/cheney executive power theories the sampling of possible liberties. i always had an audience not just on the left but also libertarians well. the first event i ever did the second was at the cato institute read that gives you a flavor of always managed at these various in my audience. >> host: how do you do that as with the left in the right meat. >> i think there are more places were left andig right meat than either side likes to a admit. and that media conveys. i think what attracts standard

media tensions in the left and right are fighting. and how many areas theyre have n common. have a lot more agreement than typically observed in the left and right definitely been a focal point from the beginning. >> host: for people tuning in and saying i know that u name, give us a sense of some of the issues you have worked on as a journalist over the years before getting to your book. >> i first started writing i did not go to work att the "new york times" i was a practicing lawyer focus on constitutional law. google that allows bloggers to be heard, find an audience mostly focus on civil liberties issues with guantánamo, when obama became president was a

fairly narrow range of issues i focus. over the years i began to expand. reporting i became best in the united states edwards noted contacted me in 2012 and said at large batch of documents he wants to give me and we did that reporting. >> host: how do you get a hole of you? did you have any previous conversations with him? >> guest: he been a reader of mine for years and was attractep to me not so much because of my views on privacy and surveillance those aligned with his, i had become a vocal media critic and was particularly critical of the media in the bush years to be too close too and deferential to u.s. security rather than adversarial with it. he found that in attributes. he had no idea who i was were at

the time the nsa is both of our communications domestically. he contacted me and was very reluctant to say much about who he was or what he had for obvious reasons. complicated encryption technology at the timend very people. and it took a while for us to establish our relationship because of that. one is able to talk to him what he found to be a shared environment by that point he wao in hong kong had gone to hong kong with an enormous a batch of documents that he had taken he believed revealed a very grave violations of the constitution. when to fly to hong kong. before you do and need you to prove to me the something genuine about what you're saying. righthe i will share with you a tiny portion of thee documents i have.

he sent 20 top-secret documents of most powerful government the nsa. the person there'd been a week of any kind from the usa. cold my editors at the guardian that night setting to get on a plane and fly immediately to hong kong. which i did. which is when we started the reporting that revealed spying to the world. >> your visit with him in russia? >> i did visit with him in 2016 for two or three years after the reporting period he never wanted to be inn russia. the obama administration trapped there by revoking his passport most importantly by bullying the cubans into resending their passage which he needed to get to north america. he bent russia for a year. soap until one dayon be able to leave. they have two children there

building a life there. you can tout the life he's chosen. >> is a real debate in this country about julian assange and others heroes orol villains? >> guest: for me there's no real debate part one of things i discovered in my work as a journalist that i did not previously know was the true extent to which virtually everything in washington is done behind a wall of secrecy on most everybody believes some things the government does should be secret there's a grand jury d investigation but by and large we ought to know what our government is doing and then a we arettle about what doing that is the idea. then becomes completely reversed. because of this wall of secrecy they have erected for communism

in fighting terrorism on whole variety of other justifications. people like julian assange and snowden and manning are devoted to the idea that in a democracy it is necessary to relearn not everything but the important things about what their government is doing. how white could be have a meaningful election for voting for leaders, parties and we do not action of anything about what they are doing. as long as is done responsibly and snowden just did not throw it on the internet came to us with very clear instruction about making sure jeopardize anybody's lives. and to work at the "new york times" the guardian and largest newspapers in the world. benefit people. as long as it's done responsibly then to me it's pure heroism.de they're risking their lives to inform the citizenry about things wehe know. >> host: glenn greenwald atui severe american experience.

night taking your c job to braz, how did you get down there? >> guest: had been visiting brazil quite a bit in thehe late 19th and early 2000's. i was working as at the time really a place we all find those places that resignation with our soul but speak to us. i was overwhelmed by its beauty. 2005 when i went there i tended to state seven weeks. i met my now husband of 17 years. at the time the marriage act was a law in the clinton years banned gay couples from getting green cards or other immigration rights for the same spouses bread brazil being the largest in theti world. nonetheless offer those rights were only able to live in brazie together. wede built our life therefore wo three kids is an elected member of congress. obviously have kept 1 footar firmly planted in the united states with the work i'm doing. see what your most recent book is securing democracy at a fight

for press freedom and justice in t brazil. how did you get in trouble the president of brazil? >> i had actually had clashes with jair bolsonaro prior to become him becoming electeded president here's a member of congress for 30 years. and even aoc strictly in w the sense he was not ever k in the seat of a power he was always kind of on the margins but drew a lot of media attention he o would make statements and do it in a way that drew a lot of attention but was not necessary the way politiciansta normally spoke much like donald trump and his style of how rare it was. there is one incident in particular i believe i expressed a view i thought he harbored a fascist sentiment. he made a very crude reference to my being gay i on twitter and it caused a whole ruckus. ralph always had an adversary

relationship. my husband is part of an opposition party and they have had their clashes with my husband has with him and his sons all our elected officials. what really escalated 2019 on mother's day i was contacted by a woman who was the vice presidential nominee that ran against and jair bolsonaro and she lost her she told me she had been contacted by a hacker who claimed he had a norma's archive of files had taken from the phones of brazil's most powerful judges and prosecutors revealing serious criminality and wrongdoing. she put me in contact with him. as a very similar story to the w one i had with edward snowden was an anonymous source who claimed that a gigantic archive when turned over to me would begin during the reporting that caused a lot of destabilization of the government. and i went from crude insultsli about my sexual orientation to

explicit threats of imprisonment from the president himself, death threats from hisem moveme, security problems of the course of 18 months or so weea really became enemy number one public enemy number one of the jair bolsonaro movement. near the beginning of his presidency he was at the peak of his o power. >> what was operation car wash? >> operation car wash was a gigantic anticorruption probe potentially the largest ever in the democratic world. it began really by accident 2014 when a money launderer got caught in a pretty trivial crime laundering money through a local in a midsize city. the name operation car wash. when they arrested and he said to them you will not believe what i have it. i'm not a small time lending money launder i'm a fixer and ai money order for the most powerful billionaires and politicians in this country

there deeply corrupt and i am willing to help you discover all of their dirty secrets in exchange for leniency for this crime you just caught me engaging in. at first kind of a moving story. it is true and everyone acknowledges has been run by systemic. maybe a lobbyist does not file a right form, no money gets passed, a team of a prosecutors trying to oversee the case were very young mid to late 30s early 40s at most. they had been born into brazilian democracy took seriously or so speaking a company of law.

this narrative was very attractive to the media at the young crusading prosecutors want to clean up their country. using this original itch. billionaires from those powerful people in the country. everybody was moved to see that. were actually going get the real criminals the people by that $100 att a time but might be hundreds of billions at a time. was a judge overseeing that young prosecutors became very fanatical. they became national heroes in brazil per there is no one more popular than they for the next three or four years from 2014 -- 2018. they basically ran the country

because no politician could compete with them. internationally celebrate his wanted time 102,006 and the only brazilian on the list on the cover of magazines all over the world. every weekend in brazil. so the power these prosecutors yand judges had as anticorruptn probe expanded became larger than any personte should have. that wasd when things started o become a bit more controversy over their questions whether they were selectively prosecuting for ideological and political reasons. i met was a context to which our service came to us and said that was they'd invaded. and said we can prove they have been corrupt all along. >> host: where is he today? >> or the most important things

the car wash probe did in 2017 and is preparing to run for president the main obstacle he had his path legendary status in brazil. he was a two-term president fors 2002 -- 2010 center it left a very charismatic. former labor leader who w left office with an 86% approval rating. lifted people out of poverty's plan to again in 2017. told him points ahead he end up not running because sergio found him guilty of multiple charges imof corruption. consent of ten to 12 years in prison which made an un- eligible to run which paved the way for his victory. the first thing he did upon being elected as he turned red elevated from his role as a local judge at first level and

made him the minister justice ob public security. there is a unity of fans. end up leaving the government here in a few months after he became -- after he joined it and went out shooting claimed he was completely corrupt he tried to criminally interfere and various police investigations his children were all adults officials were charged with corruption. he split with the movement he went to the u.s.. for a while, made a lot of money came back to brazil this year announcing he would run for president and running for president. the presidential candidate was a flop, he pulled out before even began. he is now announcing is going to run for the senate. i've kind of a critic of both

anodes accused of being corrupt. >> host: let's go back to da silva put in your view and i know you have a connection to him will get to that. was he guilty of the corruption he was put in prison for? >> a reason it's hard to say as he never got a fair trial. there is no question the workers party was involved in all kinds of corruption. i pushed him an interview is to acknowledge because as i said earlier brazil is a country that fdoes not have occasional instances of corruption but is run systemically on corruption. the workers a party having been in the middle of it in brazil there is no way to get anything done was you grease the wheels of that corrupt machine. and that workers party played that game. the question of how much of the

personally profit from corruption it was a show trial is a trial in which all along with plotting and sick of prosecutors is what our reporting shows to ensure conviction regardless of the evidence. i do not know the answer to that. but i do know there is no doubt the government and party was heavily interacting with the system of corruption that is uralways run. steven glenn greenwald what is your connection? >> i interviewed for the first time in 2016. what was he in prison at the time? what's he is note. in prison the first e-mail president. by this point she had gotten reelected barely pictures the middle of t her second term in this economic boom he benefited from turned into economic collapse under her presidency.

until there is a serious impeachment effort underway that i was opposed to. when the interviewed him by that point it was clear the anticorruption probe was not aimed at her but aimed at him. my interview with him. no but really thought he would ever end up in prison. is like country putting the greatest icon in prison. nobody thought that would happen. but they were trying for the interview is in that context about impeachment people raising the possibility he would be prosecuted potentially. and ironically i'd tried to interview when he lula the supremet court rejected our request we didn't want them heard during the election if the public would hear from him and his voice he could sway the election that's how much of a hole he had on the brazilian people but they deny interviews with everyone. only when his election 2018 did they finally grant my request to interview from prison. so when thee supreme court

granted your request regrets the prison authorities had rejected it. about a week or two after the interview was scheduled was scheduled before the source contacted me. ii interviewed lula from prisoni couldn't, we have by that point were ready to reported he was obviously protesting his innocence. needless to say once we start doing thead reporting improve te judge that had convicted him the prosecutors who prosecuted amber all quite corrupt. he was freed from prison three months after he started to reporting he was very grateful i was a first phone call he made me got released from prison calling me too thank me. he publicly was very appreciative. but my husband belongs to a left-wing party that was born out of opposition to the workers party. they kind of criticized from the left and the way the green party criticize the democrats.

a process the worker parties corruption our political connection was never close i was never a supporter of the workers party. about someone's reporting issue out of prison in that report is now being threatened with prosecution as a result you obviously -- make your relationship is going to improve. so we had a goodio relationship for a year or so once he got out of prison. >> host: when is the brazilian presidential election and is lula still favored? what's the presidential election is october 2. as we are taping threerk months away or so, a little less. polls show the overwhelming favorite. result electoral systems like francis multiple candidates run and if no candidate gets more than 30% about the two top go to a runoff. very possible that lula could win in the first round.

which is one other person has done that it's very, very rare. he is very well ahead of every candidate and clearly the favorite. the big extraordinary given the last election he was imprisoned under a ten years prison term that is not only out of prison but boys returned to power. execute mitch the supreme court of brazil turned out your request to interview lula as their free press in brazil comparable to the u.s.? hector is a free press in brazil in the sense the constitution that roselle enacted when it emerged i was 21 years of military dictatorship was based in part on the u.s. model for they also use european models there's more robust protection for press freedom and the brazilian constitution than in the u.s. constitution includes for example source i protection rights cannot be obliged to

disclose the identity of their source whereth the u.s. there's long been an attempt to enact the shield law of that kind. but it never has happened. so on paper it there is a big re-tu robust protection. in practice the model has been that because of the grotesque inequality off an brazil the media has always been controlled by a handful of families who have the same agenda, same ideology the same interest there's been a lack of pluralism but that is changing because the internet the ease of which the audience printing press or tv network. it has really ry improved. and when i did the reporting that i did the government attempted to i imprison me the only reason i'm able to talk to nouns that is sitting in a prison cell it's because they

issued a really basically shielding for many the prosecution attempts on the grounds of a free press. she was lula is similar to if you want to interview julian assange in a prison they will not let him be interviewed, they will not be t photographed. as one that west uses just as readily as a brazilians use it. they use it back into bar interviews. i know it sounds drastic but is something we have here in the u.s. on the uk as well. >> host: mr. greenwald is your brazilian source as he or she ever been identified? >> the federal police announced they found you sore and arrested usring of six people the person accused of having been my source has publicly assumed responsibility for that. i've never confirmed nor deniedn

it. part because i never knew the identity of thef resource. i have my suspicion the source alsoel say they are the one who did it, that is theel right but not going to help the government by saying it is or isn't. what would you receive those documents in brazil, that did it feel like déjà vu from a different perspective? >> when i was called by congresswoman about this issue i asked whether she would be okay with my husband participating in the call just because it was obvious that call of high intensity and importance. when you want to make sure you're not missing anything. he participate in the call after i hung up i sent to him look, we've already been through this once before so we're going to

have the advantage we've gone through this andll they haven't. david said no you really think about this incorrectly. o that's what we did the people angry at us for thousands of miles away on an ocean this time the government is going to be angry at us is literally around the corner. it's going to be much more dangerous and much more difficult. i much riskier. at one point they joked and said the cat they get anyone other than you get these archives? why does it always have to be you? he knew it was about to begin. so yes fermi was déjà vu. who is trying very hard to get me too see this is going to be more dangerous. >> how close did you come to been physically injured for going to prison? >> pretty much from the very first moment we began a reporting we were getting the kind of death threats therapy sort of death threats public

figures these days complain about e-mails that you're going to get what's coming to these ak very very detailed death threats. here's your dressers the front of your house is your car we know your kids go to school. very, very alarming. clearly people who had access to private data obviously in the government and the security forces. we had to turn our house into o basically a fortress. we did not leave our house for two years without our armored security and armored vehicle we had a very good friend of the city councilwoman served on the city councilil david. who had been murdered and assassinated nine months earlier in 2018. we took this threats very seriously remember appeared in public extreme levels of security were necessary. one time i went to the book fair and they made me speak in the middle of the water on the boat they were there is a group of

followers that were shooting fireworks at the boat trying to set the boat on fire. i was physically assaulted once by very famous journalism in brazil. >> you have a picture of it in the book. >> in the united states i appear on fox news a lot left wing networks at will. i have a philosophy should speak can. many people as you is it right wing network in brazil great very rapidly they had invited me on several times i had gone on it was in the middle of the reporting so the tension was at itsso highest. plula was just out of jail so e movement was extremely angry in general and particularly with me. there is a journalist who'd been in the main strain his editor of the largest weekly magazine.

about six weeks prior to my going there he got on the area sensually said my husband and i should have her children taken away from us from should be investigated by the adoption agency because haack would take care of my children when work was stolen documents. very homophobic remarks people talk about your children should be a one limit and political warfare. i was extremely angry by that at the last met the saidd we like o put them on the show with you do you mind? i said no i don't mind i want to confront him about these comments he had made. they seated us almost like ndmillimeters away but you cannt make it more combustible atmosphere you try but they obviously did try. right when the show began i said look before we beginle i'm not going to talk about any issues i need to clear the air and i looked at him and said i demand

you either reaffirm your comments you believe our children be adopted should be returned to the shelter be adopted them from or apologize and retract it. he instead started attacking me refusing to retract it. rhetoric started from there and spontaneously he took his arm and try to hit my face. i blocked up i both stood up he pushed my face against his life, on the airport not only on radio but on television. needless to say it exploded. the really significant part of it was the most prominent members of the movement said it congress, the president's son, not only cheered and supported whatpo he did but said it should had been a church you use. these are people who want to introduce violence into political discourse. it gives you a sense of the real thaton and danger of

moment foror the reporting we we doing it for the as a whole. >> host: glenn why should we here in the states care about securing democracy in brazil? >> u.s. is always carried a great deal about brazil. the 1954 coup that led to the overthrow of that centerleft government was engineered by the cia. by resilient generals of m the 1 years dictatorship was supported by the u.s. for its because brazil was an extremely important company strategically. as oil reserves in the middle east are being depleted just there discovering vast oil reserves it's hard to extract or appoint exploitable more valuable. it's a sixth largest country in the world in terms of population. the second largest country in the hemisphere. it has probably the single most important environmental resource in the amazon.

and soap you or somebody cares about the world at all, cares about the united states at all you really need to carry about brazil in terms the direction nfwhich is going and influences the region greatly. brazil is also one of the leaders of the developing world and has an alliance with china, india, russia, south america. it was intended to be a counterweight to the world. so it's really impossible to overstate brazil's importance politically. she is strategically and in general i think countries are more connected than ever before because of the internet. if one country takes a democratic pass it's very easy for that to influence other countries to follow in court. >> that media here in america trying to figure you out.

you are called tucker carlson's mouthpiece, a friend of yours are here as libertarian convention. what if you got for us? >> if you are a journalist and people can't figure out which box to place you, for me that's a testament to the fact you're doing your job. i do not see my role as attachments out any particular faction or ars spokesperson butf i wanted to have become a politician or spokesman for a party but it's very difficult to pass me as a fanatical right-wing figure given for example everything we just urtalked about bald by confrontg one of the most right-wing governments in thein world. and frank from prison when the leftist icons. i have long been a fan of people like corbin and bolivia however

when it interviewed immediately after is a victim of the coup. i think that's actually happiness left, right category the united states are eroding very rapidly. the idea of opposing nato and involvement in ukraine i left or right ring idea. as the idea of opposing gigantic big check monopolies left-wing or right-wing idea? it's increasing it more difficult place people these cattle categories. for journals it should be hard i'm glad it is. simon is us or seventh book? >> six book. >> host: where can people redo now that you're no longer? >> there's a an area that's to devote to free speech that's right tend to gravitate to break it might writing on sub stack which is a place that guarantees free speech. i do video journalism on youtube

competitor that's growing rapidly called rumble. i'm a social media obligation have a public platform including twitter. various conferences like these in various programs. not just hunter carlson plots of left wing places like joe rogan as well so i get around. >> glenn greenwald most recent book is securingy. democracy, my fight for press freedom and justice and brazil. thank you for joining us on book tv for. >> is a pleasure to talk you thanks for having me. ♪ book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. 8:00 p.m. eastern herbert hoover details the life and legacy of the former president dirty through politics and his leadership for the great depression at 9:00 p.m. eastern tim miller msnbc analyst and why we did it talks about his time in the republican party weights

in my many in the gop choose to support president trump. join us on saturday september 3 for the library of congress national book festival both for the last 21 years book tv has provided live in depth uninterrupted coverage featuring hundreds of nonfiction authors and guests. why should book tv sunday on cspan2. on a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. >> weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday in american history tv documents america story and on sunday tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 companies television companies and more including pox. >> wadding in a diner for internetwork is even harder for that is why we are providing