and succeeding in male-dominated professions. and i can show you how you look like. good morning everyone. good morning. good mor >> good morning everyone. welcome to the kentucky book festival i am a sophomore studying vocal performance our next guest the first female marine to fight a combat

mission a child of shape i love of country and baseball from the age of 12 a fascination with fighter jets. [applause] the next guest that more than 26 years as a special agent with the fbi and today she recounts her global experiences that shaped her life. [applause] so amy will let me ask the first question so thank you for everything you have done for our country and for your service and all you have done for young women who follow you and all those little girls who

can look at amy and not ask the question will i be able to do that? can i fly s that fa 18? they will say i can do that because of amy. give her a big hand. [applause] so my first question for me and most people in this room we will never fly and fa 18. the closest we will ever come is watching the new tom cruise movie. what i really want to know is what it's like to fly the fa 18 by want to know how it feels viscerally. like you want to scream or vomit or does your stomach come out of your throat?

>> first of all, thank you for the kind introduction. before i get into telling everybody come i want to say something very briefly about kathy. who has spent a life of service to our country as well in the fbi, went all around the world in very dangerous things for us. and was a trailblazer for me because women in the 1980s and nineties that went into these fields were not necessarily accepted that when you read her book you will see just how hard it was for her and people like kathy that literally open the doors for people like me' i appreciate you and it's an honor to be standing next to you today. but what it is like to fly and

fa 18 number one you don't have a lot of time to stop and smell the roses. is not like you are up there like cowboy stuff. it is intense, you are constantly 13 on —- a thinking you are constantly working imagine playing a soccer match and how physically difficult that is while doing math problems in your head and doing a radio interview at the same time. when you get out of the jet you open the hatch of the cockpit and you are completely drenched. have you ever walked out of the sat and your brain isr fraud that is what it's like after you fly a combat mission

it's like walking off of the basketball court after playing a game. it is exhilarating, it is wonderful is the best job on the face of the earth because it is so challenging in your mind and in your body when you do a training mission flying into las vegas and you pull up next to matthew mcconaughey private jet he walks out and you pop the cockpit and you say mine is better than yours. [laughter] that is the best part but that is always after you have done your mission when you are training and in the cockpit it is intense and not much time to think. >> the whole factor you can look over and say i will be way cooler than you'll ever

be. >> we have a lot in common we both grew up here in kentucky and went into male-dominatedpl careers and have lived in some of the same places alexandria virginia but we had a dream at a very young age. you talk about in your book , how does that come about? you knew deep down you wanted something else. can you talk about that quick. >>ld growing up on a farm i discovered the rest of the world through books. books are everything i learned through books there is something else. there is a lot more out there and i was determined to see

it. stories take me to other places and that is what gave me the adventurous bug. and my mom watching her and didn't have many choices she grew up at a time when there were no choices. i wanted to have choices in my life. i was determined i would do something that other women didn't get to do and didn't want to do i ended up applying to the fbi and secret service and cia i had just missed the testing date idea grow very patriotic because my fathert was in world war ii and he didn't talk about it but i distinctly remember my father saying long before it was afr

catchphrase freedom is not free. another thing my father a did that made me think and i always think about it when i watch the tv series band of brothers, the main character says i want to find myself a quiet little farm one of these days and watch things grow. that hit me so hard because my father said the same thing i said daddy why did you stay in hawaii? he said i wanted to find a quiet place where i can watch things grow. that really hit me because i knew that was his patriotism talking but what he wanted sori i grew up with the feeling of

being a patriot which is whys ended up with a government agency.k, >> when youai read her book you will see she has so many amazing stories from her training all over the world india, china and the stories are so detailed did you have a journal? how did you remember all that? >> no. most of the work i did was classified so i cannot keep notes. but i did write down words and phrases. don't forget the monkey story. so that's how i ended up writing the book the very first chapter in the book and on a suicide bomber case what

did she believe in so much she was willing to die for? so what is it if each of us that we believe in so much we would die for a? so are you advocating suicide bombers? know. that's not what i'mev asking. what if we march for for the women to vote or civil rights they didn't know they were coming back or being killed in the process know we ask the military to go do the same thing we asked the soldiers to go fight for something they believe in or we believe in.

so how do you resolve that within yourself or that you had to go fight for something you believed in? >> i think for me to live wider jets it is inherently dangerous job if you're the kind of person that wants to go into the field make peace at that early on i have lost friends and most of my friends i have lost along the way were not lost in combat only a

couple of those who are no longer with us most were killed in aviation mishaps. when you look at that it is not their fault but they are in the wrong place at the rewrong time and the machine did not work and we're doing really dangerous stuff what you recognize in the very beginning not everybody wants to do this but our country needs people to do it and i'm willing to do it and if i will lose my life in the process than i did it for the right reasons. i look back on that time in my life and that's what i've always felt. but that something you make peace worth early on.

>> you want to ask about your training you are going through training in a very male-dominated environment in the late eighties. but literally tried to sabotage for training because she was a woman a lot of people did not want me in the marine corps but i cannot say somebody actually try to sabotage my training and tried to make me fail. there is a difference in one decade i went in the 1990s.

just having one decade more of integration of women into some of these fields, i believe has o actually changed how the federal agencies have worked things are better now foron women than they were the eighties and nineties. so can you reflect on that? >> the chapter she is talking about my first experience in the fbi my instructor change the site on my gun so i cannot hit the target.y i knew what he had done and grew up in kentucky i kept telling him my sites were off he said you can't shoot just walk out now. so being from kentucky with help of a west virginia state trooper who stood behind me telling me where my shots are

going i was able to get through it but that was my first experience in the fbi. so it has evolved to a certain extent i realized i was on the right path i saw in "the newho york times" there were 15 or 16 women who had filed a lawsuit in 2019 against the fbi because their firearms instructors at quantico were trying to sabotage their training. 2019?ll i thought has it changed really? yes there are more women in leadership positions but it is still inherently male-dominated. unfortunately that negative media is warranted especially

when it comes to the young women and gymnast who talk about their sexual assault. i personally think they were ignored because they were young women. so what i do now i get so many e-mails from young women who want to join the fbi. i say you go into the fbi don't let it change you and you change it. the more women and minorities that go into the fbi the more it will change. as you said in the book, basically women see women in organizations and the positions they are and the' will basically realize women are not minorities and they can do the job. you said it so much better but i am paraphrasing it.

what i tell young women is the truth they need to be in the marines in the military and fbi and as more women bring influence into the organization it will change stop being misogynist male oriented organization so if you want to do this go for it if you want to fire jack goar for it and don't let it change you but you change the narrative. >> one of the things we both talked about and the influence the mothers had honest you saw uher every day. i am the other hand did not ilunderstand everything my

mother had given me until i was an adult. but i am fortunate the last several years of her life i got to spend time with her and got to know who she was as a person but i got to know who she was and what her dreams were. tell me about the influence your mother had on you but then you have a daughter who is five. do you want to tell her everything you have done and accomplished or do you want that to happen organically like it did with your mother? >> probably organically. my mother was a physician going to medical school university of kentucky were

the first to graduate from medical school at that time so i knew that about my mother growingn' up and i was very proud of her but i didn't know how much of an influence she had another people until she got an award.os this was in the city of cincinnati so we went across the river and she got up in front of a group probably four or five times the size of this group giving an acceptance speech i went to the very back by myself and watched. i was a preteen. ah' woman said you are doctor mcgrath's daughter? i said yes she said i want you to know something. your mother save my life.

you ought to be proud of your mom. she's really special and you are special to be her daughter. to me that was the first time i ever realized. so growing up my mother did have a l big influence on me and later on when i went into the marine corps and did these things and usually the only woman in my squadron or unit things would happen and i would call mom this happened. what do i do about it? how do i get through this? she was a they did the same thing to me in the sixties. move on. forget about it. so she helped me all along the way even as an adult i was

able toed plow through some things that may have stopped others because mom said it's no big deal. move on. and today she still has a huge influence.he and with my daughter one of the things i loved about both my parents is they never made fun of me. i went to a catholic school we did certain things and not other things but they never said that's a dream that is not for you. that's how i want to be for my boys and girls no matter what they decide to do. i want to get in some hard

questions but have a couple of technical ones when i read kathy's book i thought fbi? why on earth is the fbi overseas? are they domestic? why is the fbi even overseas? then i wonder do i even know what counterespionage is? you did that. also talk about the process the way they take things out of your with acu every field classified information you cannot say this. they did not strike anything out of my book but you must of

went through something similaroo because there were black lines? >> there are some redaction's because i wrote the nonfiction the prepublication has to read on —- review it that they have questions a senate to another unit so mine went to counterintelligence ando counter espionage. it's not classified that some of that i thought was silly because but they marked off cia. why are you doing that? but then if they have to review your book that could add months to your publication.

i thought forget i will leave itch there. the fbi is overseas with over 70 offices based embassies throughout the world most people don't know we are overseas so i am the person who works at the chinese government to get that information or evidence and get it back to the united states so we can do our investigation and vice versa. of the chinese have anth investigation i help them with that. the legal attaché is what you are doing and in the races that i covered, if there is a

case but if the government wants the fbi to help they make a formal request and i can to the director of the fbi if it wanted then we send people over to that country and we help them with the investigation americans are killed and then they investigated. that's what they do overseas that counterintelligence and that we hunt down spies and the cia makes spies. in a nutshell that is it.

but with resistance and escape and that you say in your book on page 157 the goal when you get captured you are like a pow the goal is only to resist and then you can't any longer and instructors were adamant we were to come home alive with honor. i thought about this especially the last few years john mccain that the soldiers that were captured butrc

sometimes and those soldiers come home that they were week for giving in or that what he is meant to do if he is captured. >> first of all if it is unfortunate that you are captured or shot down that is not necessarily your fault. you are probably somebody who was just doing their job and you are wrong place wrong time suggest to call somebody because you are shutdown or a loser is insane. but one of the things they train you to do is it doesn't

help our country once you are captured to dying captivity. it doesn't help the war effort if you come back in a body bag. yes you don't want to give voice state secrets. but uncle sam does not want you to die. you are not helping the war effort so you are captured. do itns with honor and that means you are not doing any time —- everything the enemy once you to do with a torture you to the point where youou will die than survive. our country willan be okay with that and they do it but it is

because of lack of food and lack of sleep and when i went through this for training i was the senior officer so do not get treated the best. they are treated the worst. >> one of the things i loved about john mccain one of his last talks somebody asked about honor and what that meant. he was a prisoner of war for many years and the north vietnamese offered to get him out early because his dad was an admiral. we can get you out months or years before you will cut the line of all the other prisoners we are releasing you get in front.

he said no. that is honor right there. so the other prisoners got out first and then to say i have gotten now i could've died in captivity but if i had gone out how can i live the rest of my life but that is what i learned and it was a hearing because i felt like i had to do something. i had to try.

>> we hope more people read but you actually show people that is a sign of strength and not weakness help more people get that message from you or how do we make them are prevalent because right now we are so divided perception but if you don't mind you like to give theew audience a chance to ask you a few questions what

is the most common question people ask you that they think they know already but it surprises you every time when they ask. >> the most common question? are you going to run again? [laughter] i am in a supporting role at this point. i want to help others help our country. i guess is not surprising so why did you write it? and think if you look at the bookshelves but he retired as an agent and that well.s

>> my daughter is in the rotc if you could give her advice what would you tell her? army? awesome. that's great. i would tell her stick with it. there will be good days she will look back and never regretted. i have a question it sounds like you have to be a lawyer. can you explain that a little bit?

>> that is a question has asked fbi headquarters the department does that they are called the doj say they have to have a different name but it makes like no sense for whoever and we are at the doj so we actually went to have t data it's too much trouble and time and money and it will take years.

>> i do plan to write some more books but i would like to write about obscure women from history that we don't know about and i want women especially to know that so i have a short list of women that i discovered in my travels and in my work so i want to write about those women's because i want people to know our history was built by women, not just men so literally another story of

creative nonfiction so learn the craftth of writing because it's different than writing about yourself i not only wrote the op-ed that i was but then january 6 happened and i said no. i have to rewrite the this. if i try to tie my

experiencing credibility talking about things that are happening in the country. as far as a new book project? i have threes little kids that are taking up all of my time. they are amazing but i have been focused on coaching soccer and baseball lately what do you all think we can do to stop the division in the united states? >> i think what we can do individually we can and not killing ourselves a little bit

against we look at it as a national security concern but exactly that is what they are trying to push and it is working. never in my lifetime that ilv think our capital would be breached but we did it ourselves. that is something we could do and that there's not much more i can do. i am watching the news and it is crazy butt' here is something but if you want to be in the country have to do more than

just vote. and supporting a candidaten that you like that believes in the values that you have or supporting somebody but you just can't sit this one out if you are patriotic american. >> having lived and on —- worked in china from was 30 years, while the we are getting allies and and theyth are loving the fact but to try

and find out what the other person thinks across the aisle. coming together we can work together as a country again because if we. >> but that is with respect

but then to better understand and connect with trailblazers who are other cultures is an example where you can recognize or better respond to females and and this is not

true for all women in the military but my experience was fabulous but how then respected you is that what i loved is performance matters. can you put the bomb on the target in time? you cannot miss with that. can you land a $71 million jet

but the officer that gets beat up enough? i can do it. so when you have done these things and about you and then to say yes she is for real. the men that areom your superiors are harder to change because they never had women. it's not that they are bad people. t but they have never trained with a woman or had that experience white on —- right next to the whole career is with the men men so they are always not quite sure but your peers, they get it when you rise into leadership positions you can change the dynamic of the culture. when i first went into a fighter squadron there was ad

lot of antics and locker room. >> guess what cracks know i am in charge and what we found out is the bomb still hit the target on time we still did our jobs but without all of that see our ap and we did it better. that is my lesson to folks for integrating women in businesses and purposes and agencies you can still be professional without all of the antics and performance matters. >> i agree. for my career but as a

progress up the ladder i encountered men who did not want me to be there. but then men will start to look at women and say now were accustomed to seeing women in these positions that then all other the i am pretty down with the pink jet. thank you. [applause] and thank you from 2008. here are the list of questions i want to ask i know i would never get to them but here are

a few. i'm sure there is a way you can ask your own questions enjoy the kentucky book festival. have a great day

. >> there you are in person or online my first guest but n