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these television companies for cspan2 as a public service. >> emily is here tonight to celebrate a debut collection of essays that examines her old multifaceted identity. world famous model with tens of millions of followers she is a household name for her looks and prolific image. but refuses let having a body people want to sell forster. my body echoes fame, love, friendship and betrayal that the intricate web of sexuality and power during small one second powerful and both it out of control. and directly with the level of success that has brought her back pain and pleasure, emily investigates her own evolving beliefs. the dynamics of a culture that modifies the female body in the dichotomy between who she is and how she is perceived. emily is in conversation this evening the editorial director for audio new york magazine.

first published emily's essays find myself back which was the magazine's most read a piece of the year. previously, was the cohost npr she is the author of the book the end of the men and is also written for the atlantic, the "washington post" and the new yorker among others. later in the program we would love to hear your questions and you'll be invited to line up at the standing microphones in either i'll put followingne the event sign books to be for sale in the main lobby. thank you all again here and at home for being with us tonight. please join me in giving a warm welcome to emily and hanna. [applause] [applause] [applause]

>> hi everyone. [applause] you so much for being here. after i basked in the weirdness of this month for one second being live and having everyone live. hi everyone, people are here. so exciting. thank you for coming to washington. click sink you for having me. thank you for being here. >> i feel this book is so personal. i was thinking if i just dive right in it will be to therapy session w. so the construct i came up with is like i opera and you are adele. can we do that? i feel behind. a quick learner hopefully. >> we can do it. >> adele and opera oh my god but. >> we can do it will do our best. so you called the book my body which i feel embodies the theme

about the book. my had the title was looked at my body, stop looking at my body. you're almost asking people to come into the conversation right awayd. iss that your intention? you could've called emily's life or too. >> that doesn't sound as good. >> i'm going to be honest with you. >> yes i definitely think there is a part of me that liked playing with the idea of people like rolling their eyes and wrote a book called my body. and then using that preconception hopefully to make them buy the book or help the ideas in the book be more impactful. i knew it i was doing. i knew i was embracing something that was going to potentially annoy people. >> good okay. i am all for that.

there's a whole section of the book that in my head i think the signals basically that you have received. and i want to talk about that. even in your teenage life or the interesting thing about that part of the book to me i' normally when people are going through puberty or pre-teens it's like the signals that come from inside that are confusing to you. but if you like in your case even before your conscious of it it's all the stuff -- make the that came from outside to you. talk about that at little bit? like the first time you realized your body with the thing people start to send that signal to you from outside. >> i think i developed really hung and i had a woman's body before understood or knew what was. so it put me in a really strange position. when the first essays with something called a beat woman

because i was truly a baby. now i look back at pictures and people thought i was an adult? i look like a child. but i did look older. they started to have this experience feeling really self-aware in a positive and a negativeo, way. so my loot middle school feeling the attention i got fromyo boys which meant popular girls wanted to be friends with me. thinking like that's a good thinghe. but then also feeling like i had a vice principal snapped my bra strap by. >> i remember that that image sticks in my head.ng that sucks. i don't think i specify that in the book and she was a woman. wwhat is the point? >> i think innd her mind and ths

is that beauty lessons in general. interested in spluttering ways women try to protect othery women. i kindnd of teaching them the hd way. teaching them about the world and the weight their beauty, their sexuality in their bodies are going to be consumed. and i think for example that vice principal thought she was saying to me you should watch out, you should be aware of this. but up step your bra strap somebody else will kind of thing. i don't think she was doing it necessarily in a malicious way. i do not know. but in general that was sort of the purpose behind that essay. i had anyf ex-boyfriend whose mm was like a very cool lady. she only had a son. and at one point we talked that if she had a daughter she said i would have obviously made sure she stayed then. and i almost spit up my lunch w

like what? you are a smart lady with cool politics and you are talking that he would make sure your daughter stays then? come on you must know that the recipe for eating disorder. and i realized in her mind it was her thinking that would be protecting her daughter and ensuring her daughter the future and love because thin women are loved more. >> your own parents feel there's a weird mix the messages in there there's a thing thatpl sticks in my head your dad said to your mom when people complimented her on her beauty. xes her father not my father. >> her father. can you say what he would say customer. >> that's part of why i included that in the essay, my grandfather would say to my mother you shouldn't say thank you and someonese complement you on the way you look because you have done nothing to deserve it. and he was a really serious person. and i think he made her feel

ashamed for the way she looked. and her body particularly it was a source of shame for her and her family. which is why i think in some ways she took the other route of celebrate your beauty, the boys looking at you, whatever sink this should be a source of pride. but in a lot of ways it may be very aware of the way i was perceived. i write about this in the essay praying for beauty when i was a very young,. >> six. >> what did you think it was was it a source of power? >> just to be clear it was deafly a source of power. this is not just in my family a group in the age of the most powerful women to meet for brittney spears and pop stars and beautiful women. and not just my generation my parents left older movies we would watch marilyn monroe iny, some way got hot. so there's some men can be

powerful because their comedians or rock stars but to me it seemed the mostho powerful women were the ones most desired by men. i think that as a very young person instead of praying for money or intelligence, and just stead told much to me when i looked back on that and thought about how did i learn that should be the thing i. for and wanted? >> yes. you really want to talk about the blurred lines portion of the book. have you rewatch that video? do you never watch it? >> i re- watched it was writing the essay. >> what was your second rewatch and i'm curious if it's the say. so clear to think about that. i think that is what propelled me such an odd moment specific

artifact of the culture, youro know? >> i think what it wanted to convey when they read the essay and truly how i can do about it it's i don't feel that connected to it. it was a job i showed up to for a day. auso even choosing to write abot it was strange for me because so much of the rest of the book is so personal and this is definitely a moments of using what that video and what i represented to give an inside look of my experience in the power dynamics that were at play on that set. but watching it again i don't feel that much. i just think about that day of work. >> like who i was dating, i remember that time in my life. but i have not watched it that many times. i don't like to live in the

video, and you know what they mean? what some of the pleasures of the book everyone out there is that emily remembers like the treatment notes from that video and they are very embarrassing. but were they? already feminists like beyoncé not coined or owneded the term feminists yet. there is like the feminists of blogosphere people were talking about okay, maybe things in the past if not totally been great for women. but like how canor we beat grateful while still being taught? [laughter] >> essentially. the interesting part which i did not know about that video is the set up set up a good vibe for you guys but another reason i

wanted to write about that experience is because there are multiple sides to the experience. it was a female director. as a female vp. there are tons of young women on props, makeup, set design, whatever. for me at i that time i think i was 20 or 21. i had just been working as a model which i described in the book i have that's really hardheaded this is my industry. i am working, i am a mannequin. it's not uncommon it's not glamorous i'm not going to be a supermodel. saving my money because i saw what happened in 2008 a graduate high school in 2009. i do not want to move back into my parent's house and have to take the service industry job. i was really r scared.

so modeling felt like a cheat sheet essentially. i also grew up with my mom is a writer and my dad was a painter pretty always understood the idea that you have to have your day job. there weress lectures. okay i guess this'll be my day job and then i'll figure out what i really want to do. and so yes all of that was true. when the video was criticized and people came to me i think there was a certain amount of pointing fingers. how dare you be a part of this. i felt really protective of the women i have liked so much onset and how much fun i had had onset compared to shooting with some creepy group of guys. i was like wait i made friends on that video. they asked me how iat felt. that is why i dance the way i did because i was having fun. did you feel tricked after that or sincere? >> i felt sincere.

i felt also defiance, which is sort of why i was not saying also the guys i shot it with her kind of holes. i felt very protective of the experience i had had with that director in with those other women. and also protective, i wanted my politics to align with how i wanted to see myself and feel. >> what he mean by that? >> i wanted to feel powerful. i did not a want to feel small. i did not want to feel like a mannequin. i wanted to say i worked the system. i had this asset, my body. i had a great time onset.t and yes maybe that was even power. i think that's true not a separate tangent but a lot of the weight is our beliefs are often about our identity and how

we went to see and feel about ourselves. which is why it was so important for me too also write a full experience about what it really was like. and also inspect why i was defiant and why it felt so, important for me too feel powerful as the naked girl and a music video. >> that is whole trick of the book. something you see generally on the surface. we are just seeing your instagram or we are trusting yoi in the like the pleasure of the book the internal thoughts of that. what that experience is like. that is what is interesting about it. it is like a hard line to walk. it's not you, modifying your own body yet. you are just getting paid to show up for and few hours. other people are telling you you are being objectified.

but you are trying to somehowhi feel powerful. >> yes. i would save my relationship with instagram at that time actually felt the same way. it is similar to the way i felt aboutt the video and the environment that was onset. i was in control in some ways. models in the '90s did not have a way of stating what images they were putting out. it was left up to the magazines, whatever editor. i have my identity online by itself. i control that. that feltou really good. it felt like control.th >> the thing on the other side of the scales that are moments in the book when you realize o waits, if this is my path to however it might it controllable i'm kind of dependent on men. i mean the men who want this their desire and playing to what

is that realization like? how does that turn the feeling? what think that's the thesis of the essays sortable realizing that as a young girl in my 20s which by the way obviously my experience as a model is very specific it is an industry. but i have friends that looked back. taylor swift we should talk about. [laughter] how she feels looking back like tiktok as paul taylor swift. >> let's talk about ten minutes exactly. [laughter] x i would love too. but, no, i think a lot of the experience i had as a young person, a model interactions in my personal life was like because i am the one who has the power. i think even the men t felt that way than then i was interacting with. i think some of the instances i

read about in the book they almost felt like they were reclaiming their power by doing these disrespectful things. they felt over this young beautiful girl she is actually emasculating toe be simply because she has the power because she is desired. even though now it looked back and i was actually so young. i was a kid and you were in adults. in the situation the powerso dynamic was very different than what i thought. that sort of the revelation in charting my relationship, my memory of that video and how it's also representative of my politics. >> that with such a hard into that sentence. there is a super creepy incident in the book. nothing the book does is to keeo the world most of us do not have

access too. it's kind of like a lot of success and up in weird vip t situations. this is a alaska wild nonstory the 25000 up surged forward to getting that such a weird story, what is that world? and how did it in the world? >> that estimate its own transactions in an excerpt of it ran it early and preview reagan that but i'm referencing. interested in investigating my own judgment about women and how they navigate systems specifically i could write acr whole book just about that. >> victoria's secret girls a great character of the book. >> yes, she is a relative

person. i think people do that in their marriage sometimes. i have friends who marry somebody wealthy at what ever there's all kinds of negotiations. in the industry it's very specific. this is unknown model there are women that were sent to castings, to recruit other young models to essentially help out with the rich men stand with them at a table. they are kind of hoping to have in it but honestly they just want you to stand next to them and make them look cool. it's funny but it's pretty dark. it's a step away from that jeffrey epstein kind of world to be totally honest. is not living in new york city don't go to nightclubs. there's been a few different moments i've watch these groups. under age. clearly young women walking with the guy with the party promoter

and the wealthy guys kind of joint. it's also celebrity men there's this whole kind of market arouns this. lyas an unknown model you don't get paid but they essentially host a dinner. if you are a working model in l.a. you're not making that much money, you are hungry straight up. you go to the things they know what you're doing and the whole vibe is eat whatever you want, drink whatever you want. and so a lot of models go because they want a free meal. then they get a little drunk and they are invited to the club ant that is when these wealthy men i come into play. so had experiences with that. i felt extremely uncomfortable as someone who is always very liked clear transactions and those were not very clear. and the other part of that essay is an experience i had with an

ndout fugitive joe lowe malaysin fugitive who produced and financed the wolf wall street. he was essentially stealing money from people it's a pretty pourable story. from the malaysian government the president was essentially working with him to make that happen. if you haven't read it there's a book called billion-dollar whale or something. it's really crazy. but my manager got a call and i had just moved into an apartment in new york that had bedbugs. i was living in the east village and i was new to the world but. >> $25000 is a lot of money regrets huge amounts. they're like yes he just wants you to come to the super bowl. i was like what you mean? my manager at the time said trust me, it's cool jamie foxx will be there, they in orderyo o

cap pretty. >> how much you think they got paid? >> i would love to know. i mean i do know it's public record they were seized from these actors homes and whatever that were gifts.t >> just to show up at the super bowl pick. >> i didn't care about footballo each year at the wrong moment? i have no idea what is going on at all. i was not even pretending and that was the other really bizarre things about these interactions. you don't actually have to do that. i was not being told to cheer or anything.ho what was interesting and both of these experiences is watching how other women saw opportunities and capitalize on them. like okay, this guy obviously wants to beautiful women around. how can i parlay this intot something larger? think it a certain point in my life i thought i would never do

that. meanwhile i'm doing post for two-faced owned by the same type of men. and maybe the transaction is a little more clear, but that was another instance of judging my m own internalized misogyny. and also kind of like realizing how we all exist on the spectrum of compromise requests is an undercurrent said the transactions not clear it helps me understand what's going on in your head. it's not quite violence but it doesn't feel safe. if you don't know it's going to happen to you don't know what's expected of you. it's really weird situation to fall into. the other thing is you cannot necessarily i'm reading into it, tell me this is true or not you cannot necessarily rely on the other women. it's hard to tell in a lot you fall into these situations, what is the relationship between the

women? are they friends? are they competitors? how are theyy playing off of eah other these situations? >> yes i actually wanted to write more about the interactions i had with the other women that they were actually quite limited. i realized because we were sort of focused on the experiences being at this club or whatever. also i guess there's a little thing of whose side are you on? and i think about is something. honestly to me the book is more about relationships with other women then it is men. at one point i wanted to name every essay basically talk about my mom, friend in high school, famous women who had an impact on me. i do think that could have been the title for the book in some

way. >> always stopped too abruptly for me too catch up to you. >> and i'm doing it. >> there is a points, this is a risky thing to do in the book which is to like the thing it write about your trip when you start to come modify yourself o almost. it's hard to be rich and successful and ask people to inhabit your mind or feel sympathetic. that feels like a risky thing to do. did you ever think about that and will they feel sorry for me? know they won't feel sorry for me because i am rich.ki next i did not write any of the essays looking for sympathy. i wrote them because i had questions about myy own existene in my own contradictions and my own life that i wanted to explore and maybe try to come up with some answers.

also just have an investigation and a record of that investigation and an essay that people could think about these things, what are the thoughts? what are theirs politics? what do they make of these experiences? what does it say about the world we live and you can be paid to go on a vacation in the ways i'm trying to take back control. when you say come modify yourself like i hear you, but at the same time might blur some lines to that feels very same thing. >> it feels like in the book why would i wear a bikini for somebody else? i might as well do it for myself and posted on my own instagram. and that feels powerful. but that is not like the end. >> i think it's about control.

having morel control. as a model and a commodity and using my body in that way. is et is it financial success? is it a feeling is it fulfillment is it fame? is it in feeling wanted is it in not feeling wanted like where what what is empowerment really mean? it's such a it's a word i hear so much when it comes to women, especially in pop culture and in my own experience. i'm like wait, can we just go back and i'm like way too, can we go back and decide that? so that's sort of one of the larger questions in the book. >> in a weird way, a powerful saying everyone talks about which is the fault that happened to you when you were younger, should we tell the story? i never know how much people know. what's interesting to me about that story is it's the most

clear. basically, well you tell us. it's weird for me to do it but it is the most to me it is a thing that happened that is so bad that it would lead to take control of your own body, commodity, destiny, whatever. it's's so wrong. >> let's tell the stories so we are not speaking and influences. there was a photographer that shot me when i was like 19. it was a pretty uncomfortable situation and then he went on to publish multiple books using my image. >> like years later. >> it's funny that you say it's so clearly wrong, because at the time first of all, i turned to the legal system and tried to say what is my legal protection here and there was no way anyone

could say this was wrong and there was no justice. then i turned to the internet and tweeted about my experience and how i didn't want the images out there and also no one felt like it was wrong. >> that is a good point to that that yousigned a release but --t sign the release. potentiallyor an agent may be so it or it was forged. i will never know. but yeah, nobody thought that that was very clear cut when it was happening. even when i kind of turned to my followers and wasas like don't y this book. no, you took those pictures. so i didn't feel like it was clear. i felt like it was perceived as such and when it was printed in the new york magazine. >> it was received as wrong. >> people felt like this guy isc

an asshole. >> to trick someone into taking the pictures and be totally dismissive of them and then years later like when they are worth something, come back and publish pictures of you and make a ton of money off of it. like it's an outrageous come in your soul it feels so outrageous that that could happen. >> but for me that was an experience i had a ton of shame around. i thought i acted a certain way. i wanted to impress him. he dismissed me and i tried even harder to impress him. i did take the pictures, so for lme it still doesn't feel totaly clear cut. i felt complicit in the situation and had a lot of shame around it. and also writing about paparazzi, the least relatable thing when i published the essay i was like i don't think anyone is going to like this because i was sure my experience up to

that point wasit people hadn't been sympathetic with those thingsn even though they had ben out in the public which was encouraging.g. i had already sort of written about 50,000 words of the book that hadn't kind of opened to edit but it was encouraging to have that piece go out into the world and to see that writing could be a medium where, you know, at least people could think about the questions that i was posing in a way that i was communicating something in a way that gave me control. i think writing the book, we are talking about control, an act of to kind of take back my narrative. >> it's interesting that you say you're not looking for sympathy because i think the reason the essay resonated so much i guess it feels real like you put it out of there in all the circle of internal thought including

feeling complicit so it's just even though your experience is extremely particular it isn't like a million people have had that experience. it's relatable because everybody's been in a situation it feels complicit or they don't know if it's their fault or not so maybe that's why it was received so well. >> again i wrote the essay to lay everything out and look at it myself but also to have other people be able to examine. i even say in the book i'm going to proclaim my contradictions because i think it's also a tendency i have of overexposure which for better or worse but i'm very interested in beingin very honest rather than trying to make people feel a certain way because i'm not sure how i feel about all these things.

>> there is a moment when you talk about meeting your husband. i don't know if i read this correctly but it's like a moment when, i don't know it's just romantic. he comes and like essentially just kind of puts himself a between you and people who feel they have a right to you. can you talk about that moment? it's a very interesting moment in the context of the book. >> before weer were dating, he s at some party we were both fair and somebody asked for a picture and they kind of put their hands like this finger on this side. [laughter] i was like whatever and i heard him say like no touching and he like immediately dropped his hands like i'm so sorry, which d never would have done myself to be honest which that's probably not a good thing.

i wish irs was probably type of person to say that because as a public persona and as a woman i feel like no, i'm public property in some way. i have a complicated feeling around it. and in the past i dated men who were very like she's got this. she doesn't need any interjection and i always thought that was very respectful. so you know, i think if you had asked me before he had done that i would have said i don't like it when men feel like -- i can handle the situation on my own but he was protecting me and using his relationship in the world like who he is as a white male kind of a big guy to protect me and for the lack of a better term, that was hot. [laughter] my girlfriend read it and she's like that part was hot. [laughter] like yeah, it was.

>> i was looking at your instagram before this event, and i was thinking almost an addendum to my body. the kind of pictures you posted lately like the pregnancy serious, the pregnancy and breast-feeding serious and i was wondering about the relationship to whether those were freeing. there is a picture of you naked and pregnant. how does that moment of your life related to everything you're writing? it's like your body being used in a totally, like there's a few breast-feeding pictures. just what was that about for you? >> it was a trip because i was finishing the book as well, so i was writing about my body and there was a moment it was like i can't publish this book because now i have to write all about pregnancy and birth. that's everything. but i think that will just have to be another book. i do write about the birth of my last essay.

i was curious about how pregnancy was going to affect me, talk about lack of control. like you wake up every day and your body is just doing something completely different and there's no way to ensure that everything is -- you don't know what's going on and you are just kind of growing and everything is changing. but i found it actually i enjoyed it. everyone's experience is different but it helped me appreciate my body and trust it and kind of let go of control and say like okay this thing knows better than me and i have to sort of take the passenger seat and let that happen. so much of my life has been relating to my body as a tool and as a tool to guarantee

financial success i think it didn't feel like a tool particularly in birth and pregnancy because it required mt to let go of managing that tool it was just doing something on its own and then even more so in that last essay the biggest moment for me was the bike ride that i take with my husband and my friend and just being able to appreciate my body as a thing that takes me through life, which is what a body is. >> it's the breast-feeding pictures i was thinking about in particular because it's like your body as a tool that many mothers experience but in a f totally different way like nobody's buying it, nobody's paying for it but it has to do work. it's a sustaining life. breast-feeding was actually a chunk that was enough last essay

so it's funny that you're saying that. i took it out because it didn't work timing wise but there was a really crazy thing -- i don't know how many people have had a children or have had this experience, but your breasts wake you up to feed your child. like they ache and hurt. i would find myself walking like a zombie to meet my baby to feed my child and it was a really bizarre experience of like i'm not in control here. there are things at work that have kept human beings t on the planet and that's that ancient machinery within me and i have to just like release control and see what happens and trust my body and the process. >> sorry. we were going to open up for questions, everyone, in just a few minutes. i don't know how to ask this

question. as i got to the end of the book i was thinking you talk a lot about playing the game, like about capitalism, playing the game are you winning or losing. do you feel like you are winning or losing? >> i don't know. i feel like what i do have clarity on is winning outside om the game like doing something as fulfilling as writing a book. i don't know if that sort of that's definitely a moment to -- >> -- >> the actual writing i of it. most of the time you are used to just it's like a surface thing. it must be such like a t 180-degree turn like i'm by myself. nobody is looking at me. it's my internal -- >> i loved it, i loved writing

and for that part, for that reason -- >> nobody really loves writing. >> it's miserable, but i love -- to be clear. [laughter] i think that focus and exercise or the experience of that is just like i don't feel this way about physical exercise but i know when people talk about running they are like i hate it but it feels so satisfying and i'm addicted. i understand that in relationship to my experience with writing.e >> i don't think that would be fair if you are like writing is so easy for me and it's totally great. like writing is so hard. >> congratulations. it's beautifully written. everybody should read it. so many of the essays are so moving and open. so many windows into so many

worlds that are both completely exotic and totally familiar at the same time. >> thank you for doing this. >> we are going to open up for questions. if anybody wants to ask questions, please come to the microphone and ass people are lining up, i am going to ask questions from the virtual audience. i don't know where the camera is that hello, virtual audience. my mom is in the virtual audience. >> and my niece is. from katie in chicago. have you heard of or talked to other models buying back their photos and what are their motivations in doing so? >> i am in a very particular position. most working models don't have t the ability to do that or have access to it. i do think there's more conversations around copyright and also in the age of the internet in general, like i would say with revenge porn and

everyone essentially kind of like putting their images out there, i think there's a lot of conversations around ownership that are interesting, but in the modeling industry specifically, no, i don't think that there has been at lot of that. >> that's true. they can't afford it. >> this one question is really great. i want to talk about the public you think how do people reacted to the lines as opposed to cordy be, how does it reflect with ambiguity but it is interesting to think of like from blurred lines to wap. >> it had come out and i was like this conversation around sexuality andn empowerment ache without a doubt the racial stereotypes that come into play.

even though it was their music video and they are in control they have to battle a whole other set of issues that, you know, it is crazy. >> but it t is a similar thing going on in the video that goes on in this book which is like mi and control doing this thing, i'm leaning into it and maybe that is a form of empowerment but i think she does know, cardi b. >> it's interesting because you had like really leftist feminists and right-wing people saying this video is trash and like windows that happen in this country. >> they come together on something. >> go ahead since you lined up first. >> as a young woman navigating her career and independents and notg to mention dating, how did

you deal with heart ache and rejection especiallyo from an industry that is so easy and quick to reject women for one kind of or another? >> you might hear me say this again because it was one of the takeaways that i had in the book. i wrote it to investigate experiences that i had a lot of shame around and i thought that i was going to look back at the book and be like that's the moment. that's where i should have done something different or that was stupid. why would you compromise yourself or agree to do this and what i realized is that's actually not a healthy exercise and i think that young woman need to learn to give themselves a break and understand of the larger things that are added to play outside of their personal choices that lead them to that heart ache and brutal kind of

realities which is partly why i wrote the book. i don't think my life has been a product of my choices and the culture into the world that we live in and it's important for young women in particular to learn to not be so hard on themselves. >> i was wondering people's opinion on you and taking you more seriously if that changed after you opened your business or started your business? >> no. >> maybe if they started taking you more seriously with all this you are talking about. >> i think in the world of skims when people take control of

their image and use what has been used by other people to have their own hustle, people definitely are like maybe she's business savvy. in some ways that has been a part of it, but the book only came out a week ago and i'm hoping the book is may be more impactful in that way, but i shouldn't worry about it so much. >> you do have a true friend whoever it is that helps you build your business, like your actual true friend in life. that's a good counterbalance to all this other weirdness going on. >> it's hugely important. >> thanks so muchin for coming. i am a college student. you operate between so many industries from modeling to entrepreneurship and now literature and i was wondering

whatat advice you would give to young women in their 20s on owning their sexuality and entering these professional fears and even overlapping between them as you have. >> thank you for coming. i think that one thing i've learned, and this sounds likeun the kind of thing i got adviceit around and i've heard about a million times. it's not helpful but then you come back to it and it's like that was good advice. i do think that trusting your gute' and following your instint there's a culture. i feel like in particular with young women, there's a lot of mentors that will be quick to say you should do it this way,te don't listen to yourself, whatever and can be sort of dismissive.

i have found that taking that advice from people has not been helpful but instead, kind of doing what i want to do, nobody i think would have said like write a book of essays about sexuality. like that is the ticket. but something that i felt passionate about and, you know,n whether or not it's successful i can go to bed at night knowing what i cared about, so trusting yourur gut [inaudible] how do you navigate that now, and i guess through going

through this process how do you control that? how much do people know you because they see you everywhere? >> it's a good question and i'm figuring it out every day for example, with my son at one point i wasn't sharing his face and then he was getting paparazzi and that was an example of me wanting to get control feeling like there's going to be an edges of my son, i should choose which ones are going to be out in the world. he can be out in the world and that feels better to me. i think it is just a day today feeling gut check and saying what feels comfortable. when i was writing this book deciding what i wanted to share and why, it's what felt right

and really checking in with myself in a way that i definitely use to not. i used to feel like i would never even if somebody touched me or whatever i never would have thought because i thought they were think she's rude. now i'm a little bit more interested in taking care of myself rather than worrying about the way that i am b perceived. >> sometimes you are lucky as a writer because that is a response to the relationships it's like here, have it. this is what i think about thegs situations. this is my complicated feeling. it's like a great way of addressing all the things people are projecting on you. >> i'm curious now that you are a mom and business owner, we've seen a coupleab of articles in e new york magazine about the fall

and how that sort of came out of the culture and working 14 hours andma also care to their maternl instincts when they have children. now that you're a mom, what do you think of that whole phenomenon. i sort of realized that my girl boss essay going to this vacation and thinking i might as will be the one to sell the bathing suits then this guy. i mean, i c think that capitalim is really rough on everyone and i think women have this feeling of if it's related to the conversation i'm interested in having i have to become the man. i have to become the boss in order to be viewed as successful. even if that means not paying

the wage, that is the game i have to play and especially as a woman i have to go doubly hard. it didn't mean real change. for the places of power that we don't normallyly see women and then i think actually the backlash to the phenomenon in the way so t many women were hed accountable in a way that i don't think there were as many men being held accountable was also related. >> thank you for being here. my question is what would men learn from reading this book? >> hello, thank you for coming.

i think that i wrote this book with men in mind in some ways because there are men i felt close to that really didn't understand why i get so emotional or upset about any number of situations like i get it. it's hard. i felt so frustrated i wasn't nidoing a good job explaining wt it's like to be a young woman in this world and when i wrote the book i was thinking about women a lot, but i wanted it to be accessible so they could feel compassionate and empathetic with what it's like.

>> i was just wondering you talk and lot about control and sometimes how hard it is to navigate that. i was wondering for someone at our age and starting out because a lot of the experiences you talked about in your early 20s, what is the best way that you have for navigating that and harnessing that control in idifferent places? >> it's hard when you're 23 because you are 23 and it's like you are a 23-year-old woman. what would you know. i think being aware s of, i dont want to say the same thing, but protecting your self and having a frame of reference that's not

letting things land personally, that can be helpful and as you try to find control because you are going to get so much pushback is tough. i wish there was a guidebook to this reminding yourself of the actions were getting because it's no' who you are. it's the world into the culture that we exist in. >> last question. >> thank you for coming. my name is lydia. igo finished the book a couple f days ago. i loved it and i especially loved the chapter that made me a little emotional.

did you ever sit down and have conversations in the book and if so, how did it go? >> it is an ongoing conversation like all intimate close relationships. i think what i tried to do is give her, to be as empathetic. i know that everything in the book she did it out of love and out of a desire to be close and a desire to protect me.e as a parent myself, i have to accept that i'm going to be in perfect as a parent and even the most well-intentioned person

there's going to be things that are messages like they don't land the way you intend them to. but it's an ongoing conversation. >> that is a lot of peace and wisdom around the relationship. i'm going to rip the band-aid off and get right to some of the topics you