thermal units of energy, i think that's right and someone show me how -- >> we are going to break away, take you live to the senate. c-span2. the presiding officer: the clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington, d.c., october 18, 2022. to the senate: under the provisions of rule 1, paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable tom carper, a senator from the state of delaware, to perform the duties of the chair. signed: patrick j. leahy, president pro tempore.

the presiding officer: under the previous order, the senate stands adjourned until 9:00 a.m. on thursday, october 20, 2022. >> u.s.20, 2022. senate holding brief sessions between now and the november midterm elections, no votes planned until november 14th. now we take you to the booktv programming. >> guest: abortion needless to say. they use to try, stan evans pointed out he turned -- he hated the term fusionism, trying to put together 2 things that are a natural match and he said you can't have liberty, he thought liberty rested on some

traditions and moral understanding of what human beings are and in that respect frederick hayek thought much the same and so there are always these clashes, most libertarians, not all are pro-choice and most traditional conservatives are not. so that split, want to say this on behalf of social conservatives, quite aside from electoral consequences a lot were former democrats who switched parties but what ought to be said is abortion wasn't a national issue, it was an issue but on a state-by-state basis, a lot of spectrum views how it should be handled and what the law should be and so forth. once we nationalized it suddenly it became front and center in our politics and was unavoidable. doesn't matter what you think

of abortion or same-sex marriage, once these become national issues if you are a social conservative it will be hard to keep the coalition together. >> host: eric on the line from parkton, maryland. >> guest: that was great, appreciate it. >> host: michelle, orlando, florida, you are next. >> guest: >> caller: mine main question is the republican party leadership is very confusing. unlike what happened in watergate we are -- finally the leadership came to nixon and said enough, you are caught, you got a problem, you got to go. we've got leadership that on the one hand, january 6th and seventh will criticize trump or make -- may criticize him on

other behaviors and then turnaround like kevin mccarthy, go down tomorrow lago and make nice and so it seems to me there are so many things that are such misbehaviors on trump's part that he's not held accountable for in the public forum except for people like liz cheney, and so how can we accept a person, republicans accept a person who has so much missed behavior, most recently now with these classified documents, and nobody comes out and says your behavior is wrong, get off the public forum, work in a different way if you wish but this cannot represent the party? and yet they continue to pander

to him constantly? >> host: was that aaron? michelle. we will mark you down is undecided on the trump question. i don't mean to say that. your first point about the confusion in public leadership remind me of will rogers's comment about the democratic party, organized political party, democrat, republican, i don't think there's any mystery to what is going on and that is trump has a lot of republicans intimidated because he has a hold on an energetic base of the party. i think it is true, days and hours after january 6th there were a lot of senior republicans saying he has got to go. rumors that people thought we would you like nixon and say don't even wait until january 20th, go now. there was talk of this, don't know how serious or extensive

or all the rest of that. someday maybe we will find out. don't know if there are documents, emails and whatnot but it is that simple. the analytical statement is true. indisputable, he is the dominant political figure in american life in this last decade. my hunch is for people who don't like him or think he is a drag on the party, that may include mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy they've got their fingers crossed hoping he will just go away, or ron desantis is gearing up to run, my opinion, people say he is young, he can wait but i think there are moments in politics you have to do it. i think his moment is now. if you wait another four or twee 8 years the moment might not present itself again.

that could happen. >> host: 30 minutes left with steven hayward on "in depth," twee 8 books if you want to join the conversation eastern or central time zone, 8200, the mountain or pacific time zone 202-748-8201. on the close-up shot over your right shoulder. the real jimmy carter, talking about reagan, donald trump, probably wondering what you think the real jimmy carter is. why jimmy carter? >> guest: i think it should be said that his assent to the presidency was a thing of genius that showed real insight. after johnson and nixon and watergate and all the rest,

what the american people wanted was someone who taught sunday, he taught sunday school for real, metaphorically but a serious point. has campaign was brilliantly organized. has post presidency is most interesting in some ways. half the book talks about that. the first president who took on significant causes after he left office. with the exception of herbert hoover, the hoover commission in the 50s and how it restructured the federal government, the perfect person for that. carter took on these causes which are excellent, habitat for humanity, working to eradicate disease in the developing world, great humanitarian gestures. he also interfered with foreign policy most spectacular in the run-up to the first gulf war in 1990-91.

he was on the phone to some leaders in the middle east, arab leaders saying don't go along with president bush, the bush administration got wind of this and outraged about it. like trump's recklessness people talking about can we charge them with the logan act? and also since he left office, wrote a book about how israel and apartheid too far, i will tell that story, going back to the 70s campaign for office in georgia the southern race dating democrat. and saying he's a mayberry machiavellian behind the smile and his religious faith, he was a pretty tough guy. >> host: you call him the overlooked medley.

how did he metal? >> guest: i forgot the details but he was saying or communicating with people why reagan should be resisted. most ex-presidents talk to people but seem more active. >> host: is carter centric, not just the president library, being copied by people too, views on human rights, some of that is fine, but he's a different kind of ex-president and is now the model for ex-presidents. >> host: michael in broward county, florida, you are next on "in depth". >> caller: good morning. you mentioned desantis in history. let's weave these together. i'm in broward county where activist school district, this issue of keeping schools open or closing them is a matter of life or death and usually for

the elderly and my question, i will be able to give reagan and trump and out here because based on history, i want to describe what i heard myself, on video, you can check with your editor, they are on video and i wonder if reagan would have been there, trump and desantis said they were wishing to increase disease in the population by using kids to spread the disease because they don't get it among the population to increase heard immunity. they said it, that's the dictionary definition of genocide. desantis if he runs, it will be a problem for trump. that's not my question. my question, i don't think what they are doing is bad, don't think these people are evil, they are following a false view of science to justify slavery

based on what they are calling the natural order but that is from herbert spencer who founded the education system, they came up with this false belief, that's not how evolution works, it works by cooperation. >> host: there is a lot there. i will let steven hayward happen. >> guest: i've been trying to stay out of this covid stuffing great detail but this part which was i think we learned early on unlike the spanish influenza of 1918, children are very low risk of serious complication, the number of children who die from the single digits, even those who have comorbidities, more people are coming around the british saying we should have embraced

a focused protection model for elderly, you had governor cuomo sending elderly back into nursing homes who haven't gotten over covid, the ritz-carlton, given them room service, maybe not literally that but should have had more focus protection for people who were the most vulnerable with comorbidities and the elderly and more people are coming around to that point of view. we were hoping to get around in the natural course of a pandemic, like spanish influenza and throughout history, without heard immunity reaching critical mass but the idea we have to get to heard immunity and how we get there, the vaccine turned out to have been oversold, that was a harder question than people thought. i think those guys may be vindicated. the way the caller put it was a little harsh.

>> host: columbus, ohio, this is john, you're on with steven hayward. >> caller: my question back to reagan, talking about carter, after the great depression we introduced regulation to the banks, economic catastrophe, we experienced economic stability. when reagan came into office he had the decision to reintroduce deregulation to the economy. what role do you think he played to the eventual 2008 crisis? >> guest: not much. one of the big d regulations

was changing regulations, those crashed in the late 80s 20 years before the 2008 catastrophe and legislation, savings and loans actually passed in a lame-duck congress before reagan took office, that was a bipartisan fiasco. glass-steagall, the main feature separating commercial banking from investment banking, hated the big banks and that wasn't repealed until bill clinton was president and the role of that in the financial crisis was overstated, and the bad actor in all of that. senator mccain, alan cranston,