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service. >> it is now my pleasure to introduce sam apple. sam is on the faculty of the ma in science writing them a writing program at johns hopkins. prior to his arrival at johns hopkins sink top creative writing at the different pennsylvania for ten years. it's an ma in english and creative writing from the university of michigan. mfa in creative nonfiction from columbia university but has published short stories, personal essays, satires, journalistic features on a wide range of topics. his primarily written about science and health in this work has appeared in the "new york times" magazine, the new yorker, the atlantic, wired, the los angeles times, the financial

times magazine when mit technology review among other publications. and ofan course easy author of e book a ravenous use of the title on your screen when you are able to order. that is what we're talking about today. so welcome >>. >> thank you, think summit turn right and beyond. say what of course it's wonderful to have you. i love your book. it reads as i said on social media. it reads like a novel. it, was glued to it but it is al true. i'm sure he will talk less we go through how you came up with the idea of writing this book and connecting all these dots. it is about the biochemist who was a jewish homosexual living openly with hisis mail partner n germany. yet hitler protected him.

on the hope he could cure cancer. this again reads like fiction but it is true. there are many parts to discuss. i would like to start with auto's use. his familybu dynamics. his early life. let's start there tell us about thee family. bogart sure. his father was a very prominent physicist. he was a jewish, he was part of the famous family that is best known as a financial family and the banker. auto and his father there are cousins of these others. and at the time it was unusual for somebody of jewish descent to rise to a high academic position. his father really rises all the way to the top of that world.

otto grows up in this house that is full of the world's greatest physicist for the greatest in history. he was a regular einstein was very close. one of the great chemists. many of these world famous personalities would go on if they had not already to win nobel prizes. an auto intends to be a world changing natural surroundings of the question is not if his he does feel a sense of competitiveness with his father. and i think wants to outdo him which is not easy to do. einstein loves his father.

he helped shows otto decides is going to outdo his father and make his name is a great scientist is going to do it not in the realm of physics but in the living world approaches of biology. and how they use energy a moment describe it as almost a with a religious h devotion. it is the world he grows up in. talk about more sure enough guido. it's a little pressure from the family there or not. that's a feeling that's who he

was since he was a little kid. before wee move on went to talk more about hitler. it is a main part of the book. these two very different people tied together. in order to understand that relationship you need to understand hitler's childhood. i learned ale lot about hitler e did not know. the kind of child he was. but mostly about his mother. let's talk about hitler's youth tying it into his mom. i started to write this book they were already on a collision

course both are wrapped around cancer reason in a large part by then it cancer is becoming more and more common over the next decade it becomes really preoccupation of the german people and panic emerges this is the environment they both grew up in. hitler is a disgruntled teenager and his father dies reads 13 if i recall correctly. he wants to be an artist. but it's kind of a no one really likes him. the only connection he has really in the world is his

mother. the historian said it's the onlt human being he is capable of loving. when hitler was becoming an artist, his mother was dying of breast cancer. these actually taken. sort of one friend at the time, he never seen so many look so never seen somebody so depressed and one extraordinary thing is in the jewish doctor who is looking for hitler's mother and hitler's just very grateful and he seems like he has this relationship with the doctor and you know, try everything and his mother resignn breast cancer nothing really can be done and i was just devastating and the doctor also like he had never seen like he was so depressed and so his mother

dies of breast cancer cancer remains to the very end of his life in the central focus, is extreme hypochondriac and he claimed that many diseases but none more so than cancer the anotherjust one after in one point he subs everything that he is doing any rights, he is sure that w is going to die f cancer and he cramps all sorts of conditions that he was that was cancer and you know, are the killing us but ever is the multiple different times that one of the reasons these in such a hurry to do all these horrible things that he wants to do is because he is going to die soon of cancer and he is to take care of business before he dies. in the stories really bizarre, iffy even haded an obsession wih shellfish which some historians, some speculative even the word in german, crab and word for

cancers of people thought that even that was. >> and evidently his mother died a long painful horrific death that the witness. that will they you talk about, wasn't that risen and in the stop everything meeting like to launch any stopped to do this i was 90s duringre wartime. >> i think it will itself was in a different time but yes, i can talk about that as well. i know the part you're referring to there was this remarkable. inin the 1940s which you know i can talk about that now and he comes a little later in the progression. >> we think, is a more family that you will go with this.

>> will i think that comes up little bit later. >> okay, now we understand a little bit more where the early life andnd what is driving these two people, the focus, what is a passion if you will. overuse of the word but in this particular case i thinkd it is appropriate and so let's talk about his labs and how were tell us about his lab and not only is amazing lab that he design, like i was quite frankly really interesting but then how he behaved in a lab. walkso us through the lab. >> sure, by the 1920s, wahlberg has a reputation and brilliant biochemist and in

1931, the rockefeller foundation actually said we are going to build you your dream and so otto warburg personally design the institute and in a country matter and have to remember this is after notdi too long after ts developing. [inaudible]. and you know he had while he doesn't really want people working for him and brilliantly skilled that they don't have their own academics and hid visiting scientists and expert technicians to do whatever he said he's been in world war i and he runs it basically like a military operation have these meetings wages commands and what to do it says anything back to lab and you know it's incredible

because relatively small operation there. and changing the world of biochemistry one phenomenal discovery after another this continues even into the 1930s, after the comee to power is undr incredible pressure. >> and surrounded in the slot, and he was the menu likes the finer things in life, and the art and furniture and horses but per minute, you just said world war i and to me, that part of his part of his life almost is sick how will i was surprised that a service in world war i until is about that it. >> sure, so he was a german patriot and like many german patriots, he believed 1914, that was just because for germany and

he also was a jewish percent and not really out was homosexual which he was about is out as you could be at the time he lived openly with his partner but i think that you know particularly if you look at german jews, they were in 1914, there patriotic and very cruel and were full-fledged germans committed to the land and sign up for the work by the tens of thousands and otto warburg also loved horses and he signed up for a calvary unit which was sort of anan aristocratic union and he s really drawn toy it in a lot of ways and you know he wasn't think vinnie was sincerely grateful to the stories about him but i think he served admirably any got an iron cross

to mcwilliams on the frontlines right. >> yes, certainly on the eastern front and one of the remarkable person story is that by 1917 and also 1918, he was really famous are paying attention summer 1918, sees that the desks asked her for germany the deaths are mounting on desperate to getting out german army missing these letters and talking to like the ministry on say that we need him to come home and do research for german food production and so on but he stays in the army until elbert einstein i love all people write himop letters that comingng into important for science and we n need you to coe home and it was otto warburg's parents to ask him to write a letter but otto warburg does come home after einstein asked him to it is interesting that einstein said that you're too important for science and the well otto warburg was

very arrogant andnd i think tha, einstein understood how to convince otto warburg against are under his arrogance it is possible that he does not come home we dies nor and there's this incredible cancer discovery never happened and so i like to think that einstein really you know, could've played a very important role in this story. >> okay, back to the lab, after world war i which again was very ryinteresting. so talk about, was see urchins what was it the sea creature he will talk. >> yes see urchin. >> then, explain his work and so otto warburg and his lab, what was his goal, what was he searching for, almost single-mindedly.

>> sure, suzie urgent research actually starts even before he has his own lab when he still in training as medical student and physiologist buddy studying and goes with these famous european sscientists in the rain station in naples and count see urchin eggs and a lot of scientists of the time for is a safer for the experimental tool in trying to understand chromosomes and the very foundation of modern in a lot of ways and otto warburg was there with all of these scientists the same time with you before he was always focused on energy and he wanted to understand how gross is going the synergy and so he did these really innovatively comes up with innovative devices to sort

of measure how much oxygen and carbon diet not a dioxide is given office on and he finds that these see urchin eggs taking up a lot of oxygen is a that's what makes to accept the igrowing need energy and self that was always in his life for trying to understand how it manages to grow in the very beginning he wants to cancer you have to understand self growth and you know the really interesting thing is thate when he starts to really turn his full attention to cancer 1923, he has seen urgent experience in the back of s his mind and thins okay, this he urgent a using more oxygen is e going cancer cells going to do the same thing it really was surprising that some of the discovery in 1923, the council's cancer is not taking a more oxygen and found

it strange and surprising taking up a lot of glucose and set witt is breaking it down and turning it into lactic acid and getting it out of the cell and it is the same process of the microorganisms to and beer and wine and cheese and yogurt and so it's very strange of the cancer cells were doing that really was a big part cancer signs for many years and trying to understand why and continues to this day to talk out this. >> yes, will that we could take some time talking about that in your was far as what he discovered, there was a couple real half moments and that was one of them and that scientific community, when he starts to talk about this, what was the

reaction from his fellow scientist when he started to talk about what he was working on and he and his discovery. >> sure, the early years, and the veryhe early years, this was such a new surprising discovery that cancers behave like you know like you scoring on grain it took a while to set in it but people really did start to accept that this is true and the experiments themselves that every cancer they tested seem to be true and originally there were looking at cancers in the laboratory are in rats and in inhuman cancers and so people except that this is experimentally valid in cancer cells eaten a very unusual way and take a lot of glucose and perform fermentation and just like microorganisms are but we does not exist and what remains controversial is why, and otto warburg is sure that if it's not

using oxygen, it must be something must be broken and this aristocratic role he brought this to the campus and he said oxygen is sort of what the sales are supposed to do the proper way of fermentation and lower organisms and you know, the sale does this thing must be somehow broken in some way and that debate really continues to this day as well and is there a problem with desperation and breathing with oxygen professors the recent and so this with a continue buttonn time, just the fact the canceran cells were dog this is widely accepted and considered very important discovery and leads to the expression the cancer cells are taking up allr of this butcherig goes and maybe some kind of therapy possible to starve the cancer cell and so, this is

really all extremely important science and being discussed and then we'll talk with us later, after the war he disappears which is another strange part of the story and then rediscovered. >> and so he is making a name for himself with his lab legacy attention hundred by the rockefeller institute and he gives heller's attention again a jewish man inan a more now jewih people and a lot of his scientists leave and walk us through the beginning of the war and otto warburg absolute will you have to hand it to the man, he was sure nobody would touch him and he was just too important and his basic persona was part of this and he was harassed and so tell us that.

>> yes, but to me in a way that is the most extraordinary part of the story that in 1933, comes around in otto warburg is won the nobel prize in 1931, he's really at the top of the scientific world and germany isc the leading scientific nation and he is at the top of german science the as everything he icould want is beautiful institute as we talk about any lives with his partner in a beautiful home a block away and hitler comes a power and then suddenly, everything is in jeopardy. many of his colleagues, they leave right away and otto warburg thinks about it and he has the opportunity certainly to leave in the early 1933 when he decides to say and many different reasons and part of it is that he believes that the

nazi party phenomena and he said hitler will just need enough room to hangings of and hang himself in otto warburg said i was here before hitler nobody's going to take me i out of your hand pain is harassed again and again in the early 30s. i come to the institute and they say why aren't you sending your researchers to our nazi party marches and why aren't you using the salute and refuses had wanted to have the flag up and he is live at it and he chases them out he screams is amazing that he gets a away with it. and he almost is not about a tolerated him because he was such an important sciences and in the early years he is all of his rockefeller becky in the

early 30s germany still cared about international reputation as we had advantages over other scientists, he was only half jewish and his father was jewish and his mother was not so i've 1935, there are special rules according to the weather not one parent to parent and there was a lot going on but nobody should've been more vulnerable and only the jewish father but living with his male partner. in the nazi party's could've gotten rid of him at any time. they put up with him and harassed him but they don't chase him out of his institute and in the and meanwhile of his colleagues highlight 30s are gone and it is too high for him to leave. they started closing on him and it really comes to its had an extraordinary way and 41 finally, you know, he's

literally only - in a jewish dissent is live now and he has running and working for him and he is running it with dictatorship and is just too much for many of the people just like him hello people disliked him here before that this because of his personality and he unloaded amazement finally conceded and fixing him in 1941 looks like the beginning of the end for him because of the internationalna reputation and call to the headquarters you know, that hitler is still in this building and they call him head and it looks like who knows what is going happen, then he sits down with victor black, who is one of the worst nazi party he's a guy who designed the program who just also worked and later with money would help me

about the nasi killing machinery just one of the horse and he sits down with otto warburg and he tells him that were going to let you live as long as you agree to focus on cancer and is extraordinary and one is that you find out that i discovered was sort of his daily planner that on that same day met to talk with otto warburg with victor black and it would be interesting in any event but the date turns out to be june 21st 1941, and this is one of the most important days in all of the entire nazi party project only hours later at dawn the next morning, they launched operation so at the time of these military operation in history the term takes an hours later the rerolling into soviet

territory and you see this entire project and meanwhile, on june 21st, just before it happened with aero busy dealing with otto warburg talking about his cancer science and sure ugenough, in a diary they good night, and hitler are staying uo and talking about how the going to announce to the german people that they'll invade the soviet union and they stop and talk about cancer and just gives you a sense of how strange this worldview is that even at this critical moment, their focus on transforming cancer science and it makes no sense and i say this in the book and it is truly bizarre. so too in sought there was absolutely fascinating almost hard to put someone in your head but anyway, that is

what happening okay, so now let's continue on, we did he and i might be getting my timelines, heti left lab removed to the u.. for a while and drove the scientists crazy, very kind soul but just did not to know what to do with otto warburg jealous when that move happened in why it happened and then what happened after. >> so, have this event that i just told youhe about, otto warburg is told that if he focuses on cancer, he will be protected so he makes itr to the end of the war amazingly, not only for season five. 9042, bombs toward full i'm sorry 904350 felt there is institute especially moved to a

new institute which is sort of refurbished mansion on a famous stage in the german countryside this is at a time by the late 40s when nobody is allowed to use gasoline and the war efforts are not allowed use drilling material they want to build a new institute for ottoo warburg carries out will he gets in trouble and again and is almost arrested again but in the end he survives. and has extraordinary treatment and sotr the soviets come to por in sort of takeover part of germany and the emergence take over the of the parted otto warburg is ricotta between these two worlds and does not have an institute of the americas takeover is institute after the work and a turn it into a mility headquarters he is nowhere to go

in the lab and the otto warburg the lab is you know like babe roof not having a baseball or baseball bat and it's his entire existence and so he is trying to find something to do in place to go onions up managing billy 40s to get a six month appointment and at the university of illinois with robert anderson famous researcher and is hard for him to find a place in part because we stayed in germany, they thought he must be nasi work with him and he despised them actually in he hated them but it did not look good is say the whole time and so he gets the appointments of for six months and he comes to the university of illinois and he brings his partner jacob heights, when my favorite details in the book is

that heights is put into - otto warburg comes and sees the frat house and is horrified. >> right. >> is like a german match making the frat house and she gets involved in this huge debate about photosynthesis and is always feuding with the other scientistss about this in particular and then he perceives to driver be laboratory crazy not just the disputes of he said that he used to work in an old german building and so then you put in the heat in the winter everybody is walking around in winter coats and is happy with the equipment or the assistance and at one point he is driving

emerson crazy there was an boxed circles around the town because he doesn't know know what to do with himself emerson was like a saint "one of the nicest human beings from whatever i have read about him and more perceptive break and so it is a book about concert hundred hands. the. >> will that was a nice story. >> was kind of comic relief and you know, if you can put up with otto warburg's antics but so, meanwhile he's alienating more more people than these making more extreme statements not only is this thing you discovered fermentation but is only thing that matters and he appears in any 50, before a group of nobels and he said that everything else is garbage all you need to know is that cancer cells edo sales they cannot use of so the permit

and maturely uses the word garbage for everything else and he insists that if only be cancer we just pay attention to him like you could solve this disease and you know is incredibly important what he is saying but the sciences are already sort of changing in the 1950s, we have the discovery of the structure of dna there is all of these interesting discoveries about cancer viruses that are taking place in the 60s and in the 1970s we have this whereal the cancer modern molecular biology is born and using a particular mutated genes can cause cancer. by this point, all of otto warburg's - phase weighty diesta in 1970. stephanie studied, the energy was considered old world

science, very basic style chemistry and sure, these enzymes are part of what is does but they don't really matter with cancer cancer is a sophisticated jeep hundred disease and the genes and is not biochemistry. just amazing how quickly that happens and partially because people don't p like otto warburg but more so i think it is because science is so much more sophisticated and is by the 1980s, people never even heard of otto warburg and you have these famous textbooks coming out that do not mention him and even as late as 2006, seminal text with that robert weinberg puts out that he does not even mention otto warburg doll is a wonderful book and he does not even mention him the famous paper in the f of cancer was tas about the six basic functions of

cancer the comes out in 2000 and noten even mentioned the fermentation which really is a mental to cancer and so it is amazing how that got lost prayed a lot of letterwriting the last part of themy book is why it's o important. >> that's what i would like you to talk aboutut now and so for e members and those whoho are listening, i was like to give people something to take home. the story in your book is what makes it so interesting that you tie together a lot of science and great information of people and learn from and so talk about my shifted and why we are talking about again so i'm without fructose and glucose had metabolism and insulin

resistance and all of the things from otto warburg and then he got lost in the now, why again now. >> so the story really picks up again and otto warburg gets lost and then in late 1990s, the ♪ molecular biologist is focusing on cancer in the modern sense looking at mutated genes and how the signals go out from one protein to the next which causes the cell to replicate in a fundamental will is what it is the replicationep and so tracing these genetic pathways and they find that lead them back to the seem to be causing these metabolic things to change and sort of deal with her activity and seems like why is or one of these old world parts of the

story seems peculiar b to them. ... enough, the cancer networks seem to be bringing them back to these fundamental metabolic enzymes. so a few scientists, you know, rather than ignoring it and thinking, you know, this is just irrelevant, a strange mistake in findings, why is metabolism being connected to all this. and they start to look for the connections between these cancer genes and how cells take up nutrients. and, you know, it really is remarkable over the next, you and it really is remarkable at first everyone is skeptical of it. over the next decade or 15 years they start to see the cancer a link to metabolism.

the most fundamental role is actually controlling and getting the nutrients into the cell. the proliferation process occurs the cancer cells, i will step back and say metabolism is driving the process. it doesn't have a way to take up nutrients. it's a catastrophe. if you think about it from the perspective of a single cell organism i said before the cancer cell cancels out like a single c cell organism that coms into nutrients and grows. the nutrients are fundamental

element. legend what you put yeast onto breads or grains and grows it the nutrients are. make as many copies of itself as it can. doesn't wind that proliferation mode. the fundamental link between metabolism and nutrient uptake. thirty-two rediscover which found the cell's shift this growth mode. the show shifted that metabolic enzymes causing it to over eat glucose. shifting into this growth mode. it hit home for me when i saw

the famous scientist is now the president prayer puts up a piece of bread into the severance first cancer experiment. this is what cancer does. rea question i was interested i, cancer cells are getting more glucose than they should. they are proliferating. how does that happen was that have to do with our diet?t some cancer scientists are not interested in the diet let's create a drug that can somehow block this. those are extremely important there are some amazing new drugs that have come outma of this. i was interested if the cancer

cell this hour eating in any way affect that? really all come together in the late 1990s the same time they are cancer scientists are rediscovering a cancer cell over eat the glucose that's fundamental to cancer it so fundamental if you do a pet scan that shows you where in the body cells or overeating glucose glucose and that's where the cancer is. but at the same time other scientists other epidemiologist t city cancer and population are finding obesity is profoundly linked to cancer. thirteen different cancers have not been strongly linked others less strongly this is the fundamental.

this is not overtaking smoking. in glucose and multiplying are these two stories connected? to see if there is a connection there. because scientist from different fields are not often talking to each other. i think these are part of the same story. moses hormone insulin. boxes are want to be at this point for anyone to focus on the rest of this of our time together.

talk about microorganism when he gets into a multicellular organism are cells don't just eat. if they did it would be anarchy. the cancer scientists. through all these cells on that 70 trillion cells in your body that eat only when they are told to eat. need to take up nutrients. as food distribution system that's regular by hormones. worked in for moan on insolent cells which cells is over body.

you have to answer the question what makes ourselves take upls glucose? you have to ask yourself that be driving this metabolism. and sure enough insolent is a growth factor is a growth hormone divide and grow bird and decade with elevated have higher levels of cancer. 1990s. a number of past discoveries

were made the insulin drives obesity. insulin also activates changing the weight what scientists used to say it downstream where they are downstream of insulin. sainsulin activates them in the same way a mutation would. because i'm to rev up and keep growing and keep taking up nutrients for it insulin is a natural hormone we all need it. just elevate all the time or point of 24 hours a day far more insulin than you ever what is going to be activating cancer pathways for once mutation j arrives you can think of it as a growth pathway. once it arrives it's more.

microscopic answers. being starving by the body being wiped out by the immune system. insulin keeps them alive. it's really striking to the extent elevated insulin is the cause with all. the most obvious things in the book are fairly rare disease. and maybe that is because insulin resistance in the early 19th century. you see sure enough a in lockstp

tied up in these medical bowel diseases of obesity. i don't that's controversial. makes all the data fit. that of course one layer factor. and we ended up with 50 times more insulin? i think sugar first and foremost because it sugar i don't mean glucose timing sucrose. their sweet white stuffy add to everything's one half lucas, one half fructose dope molecule we know of causes internal

metabolic. of nuance to this. one take away should be insulin should be carcinogenic. if you want to keep your insulin level low the first thingee youo the blood sugar. >> and carbohydrates and basically our chunk of which is an ultra processed foods from different cones and all that. but admission about sugar removing it from our diets.ar

wouldn't it be interesting, you mentioned fundamentals of bread i've heard many times over the years. from the fundamentals. the dial down of the genetics appeared but now were going back fundamentals. could not have a guest you might've dialed down into this a little bit. what is it wed know sugar. alto processed foods.

i am a nutritionist but not dogmatic with people's eating styles other than i hope people eat most of their meals at home and they use real food. another mutual friend, with quito you talk about low carbs. we'll have to make a decision but talk about eating styles. that we can work through. an ultra processed foods for our diet. what about the carbs and the vet how they tried to gather. the type of carbohydrates in

their. the other thing is new but you know that the medical protect the liver and feed the gut that ties into this too. start with carbohydrates and bring in protein and healthy fat if need be. >> sure. most famous first famous talk on sugar. that deserves an enormous amount of credit we just us and i'm really tongue about prevention.about cancer treatment when i talk about all of this. the science and elevated insulin being a causal factor it's

elevated it's a carcinogen. it's something that causes cancer. we beat terrified it will be banned, there be warning signs. the strain thing it is in this is part of our biology exaggerated. ramps up to levels it would never be. think of that as a carcinogen. the dietary strategy of prevention therefore avoiding that carcinogen. how do you avoid that? you eat a diet which causes insulin resistance to improve because almost all of us have had it. one study found 80% of american

adults and some sign. a sensible strategy will be to follow a diet which would lower insulin levels for many conditions as an added bonus less likely to gets cancer. so what causes insulin to rise? almost no effect. not like carbohydrates. if you follow metabolically healthy once sugar is introduced to the diet.

we have the insulin resistance may not be enough. you may have to cut more carbs and focus more on healthy fats and proteins lowering insulin resistance. a diet that is high in fats and proteins and carbohydrates more towards protein, some towards fafsa. but the agreementat at least in certain circles as the one thing you want to watch out for is too many carbohydrates.

the doctor and catatonic to be able to never eat sugar. think of it as salt or pepper something you sprinkle on your foods. don't need a lot of it. currently don't drink it because drinking sugar seems to cause the worst metabolic effect. in terms of quickly hitting your liver which is part of the insulin resistance. >> people need to be very careful ideally. if the carhe with the added sug. but that isus sugar. the carbohydrate in the pasta. there are different types of carbohydrates. there are entrance carbohydrates.

and put back together. our whole and intact. the sugars are carbohydrates. think people here carbohydrates and not on a quito diet personally. there are certain things that have some nutrients in them. the different carbohydrates. research done from your perspective exits a very clear or profound insulin spike. think about food. all these things about sugar.

most scientists are comfortable with fruit in the diet. talk about the cell structure. as a glucose to not rise less dramatically. don't not get the same metabolig impact. you have to figure out what they call the glycemicec effect. how much of the glucose it hit. we don't have insulin i think you can tolerate carbohydrates for their many societies so

after the introduction of sugart first and foremost that we start to see these problems. family process carbohydrates. it a pretty good sense of what's working for you. in looking at don't think it has to be one-size-fits-all. a commonon sense thing to focusn less carbohydrates. part of what it does it traps that inside your fat cells. diet can burn it.

but give insulin allhe the time that gets walked in. that's a natural logical response. to sort of restore the metabolism of your whole body. birx years ago i did some volunteer work at a breast health center with a local hospital. we would all recommend a very low sugar diet. stcall it was said sugar is a cancer feedersu print not everyone agreed with that of the time. but i think pretty much everyone agrees with that now. again i note you are working primarily on prevention. set a healthy if you want to stop any metabolic disease and

cancer. oh healthy fats enough to make three fatty acids on the healthy fats and whatever kind of protein you eat. limiting obviously sugar, sugary drinks particularly anglo unmet carbohydrate. you have cancer that's even more so important. so, that is probably a little bit of a summary. for those of you who have not read sam's a book, we just touched on some of these details. we did not really talk about otto's partner all that much and what he did. that man, holy cow. really interesting and more dialed down into foods. the take-home is watch your

sugar and know that it is everywhere. fatty liver disease. non- alcoholic showing up in kids that's all sugar. the sugar metabolically speaking is a nightmare. cancer speaking it is as well. somebody asked the question we already talked about fiber mitigates the glucose rising fruit we did talk about that. it's unsound the culprit or elevated causing to rise what about igf-i? >> the igf-i story is like growth factor one. that is another hormone that's part of the story. there is a lot of nuance of that. elevated insulin seems to also include the signaling. i lump them together for the

sake ofor simplicity. so i focus on the ins and when i talk about it. but one of the interesting things when i started readinghe this book about the whole damaging effects of an elevated insulin there is emerging evidence some cancer, colon cancer in particular can consume the purchase directly. that fructose is you neck lead good at driving thece effective. it continues to build even in the time i was working on the book. >> a fascinating book. we can talk for a couple hours on this. hopefully everybody listening as a reason to go purchase your book and read thiss incredible story. and how his work this very difficult and brilliant man is

front and center again and what that means to us. the basically sam, and want to thank you so much for your comments here today. it was wonderful. i want to thank all of you who are listening today. this program all in the commonwealth club website to that's commonwealthar club.org. now this meeting of the commonwealth club of california commemorating its 118th year of discussions. ♪ >> you're enjoying book tv signed up for a newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive the schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. book tv every sunday on cspan2 or online.org. television for serious readers.

the middle and high school students it is your time to shine for you are invited to participate in this year's c-span student can documentary competition. in light of the upcoming midterm election picture it your self as a newly elected member of congress. we ask this year's competitors what is your top priority and why? make a five -- six minute video that shows the importance of your issue from opposing and supporting perspective but do not be afraid to take risk with your documentary. the bold print amongst the $100,000 in cash prizes is a 000 grand prize. videos must be submitted by january 20, 2023. visit our website student cam.org for competition rules, resource and step-bytep gu guide.

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