>> host: carol anderson its july 1, 2022. what is the july 4, 1776 celebration mean? >> guest: it means that we are in this democracy that we are heralding on july 4, 1776. as perilous as it was with the continental army getting their buts kicked as perilous as it looked when the south attacked fort sumter and launched the civil war. we are in perilous times for our democracy is hanging by a

thread. >> host: why do you say that? >> guest: because we have got a land, sea and air attack happening right now in american democracy. the land attack is the assault on voting rights. the sea attack is the attack to wash away the teaching of real american history and the air attack is a loosening of gun laws while having a narrative that the insurrection was legitimate political discourse and while saying there was all of this violence and threat raining down on election workers and election officials. when you are looking at what's happening with voting and if you're looking at what's happening with their education system and the way the narratives that we come tost understand this nation and then when you look at the deployment of violence as a tool of politics, we are under a full-blown assault.

a enabled and embedded embedded by the u.s. supreme court, aided and abetted by hyperextreme partisan gerrymandered legislature's. we are in trouble and where the hope is is that we have always fought back. we have always known that this democracy was worth the fight. so we have to gear up again and fight for this democracy and fight for this nation. >> host: as an historian at emory university there has been some comparisons made to pre-civil war times right now. can you make that comparison or can you see that see that? >> yes in ways where you get the sense of two nations, two separate nations going into very different directions. one direction is our states that believe in the fullness of their

citizens humanity, their belief that peoplee have rights, that believe that there is this thing calledng democracy. on the other hand you have those who call, who have what i want to say it's a comparable democracy their vision is a democracy with a labor pool that's generating enormous resources that go up to a small strata of and then what that small strata has done is they have convinced a larger number of that they too can get the benefits of this massive set of resources coming up from the vast labor pool. that's not how this works. you are getting a sense of a hyperracialized democracy with only a small strata havely full-blown rights first is a democracy that is multiracial, multiethnic multireligious and vibrant and so those two visions

of what this nation is and can be is where the collision courses. >> host: in this conversation today on "in depth" i want to focus mainly on three of your books and that includes one person, no vote, white rage and "the second." they all seem to have come from incidences that happened in our world and you tell me if this is a fair comparison. one person, no vote we head to 20 teen georgia gubernatorial race. white rage, michael brown and the second -- philando castile. is that a fair way to put it? >> almost. it really emanated out of the 2016th election because there was struck me were the pundits saying you know hillary lost because he they didn't show up.

because she's like, hillary. she's not obama so black people to stay at home and what that analysis did is it ignored the fact that this was the first presidential election in 50 years without the protection of the voting rights act which the u.s. supreme court had gutted in 2013. so once you begin to factor in that you have a number of states in implementing voter suppression techniques such as racially discriminatoryry voteri i.d. law and limiting voters and closing polling places. u want to come up that you have a very different narrative about what happened in 2016. >> host: what is a racially tinged voter i.d. law? >> i love that question. thank you. it is where have for instance alabama.

alabama voter i.d. less of you must have the voter -- government issued photo i.d. that your public housing i.d. does not count for a government issued photo i.d.. 71% of those in public housing in alabama were african-american and what the naacp legal defense fund found that for many it was the only government issued photo i.d. they had.ad in governor bentley shut down the department of motor vehicles in the black belt counties so when the one government issued photo i.d. that you have doesn't count and then you're like okay so get a driver's license within the driver's license bureaus are shut down and you have to go 50 miles to go get a driver's license. if you don't haves a driver's licensemi how do you go the 50 miles basically 100 miles round-trip? and public transportation --

alabama is ranked 40th in a snit terms of public transportation so it's not like you can justic hop on the public transportation to go that 50 miles. that's what i mean by racially discriminatory voter i.d. laws. >> host: let's take a look at white rage' michael brown, is that where the book stems from? >> guest: i was in this thing called the op-ed project which was teaching faculty had a right foror public audience of and we had a workshop later that day and i had the tv on. the news is just blaring and it didn't matter which channel it e was watching. and missouri was on fire and the pundits were all saying wow look at this black rage. who burns up where they live? black folks they live.

can you believe all of this black rage and it didn't matter which channel i have on it was the same narrative. so i found myself shaking my head going this isn't black rage this is white rage. we miss the kindling in the policies that were in place that generate that explosion. we miss whated we do with housig we mostly do with the criminal justice system. we miss what we do with voting rights. we miss all of those key fundamental bases of life in america in the policies that systematically undermined them and then turn around and say look at black folks burning up where they live without looking at the white rage underneath it.

senate this is a quote from white rage. white rage is not about this occult violencele that rather it works its way through the courts, the legislatures and government bureaucracy. the trigger for white rage inevitably is black advancement. >> guest: yes and this is what being an historian allows me to do. it was to see the pattern after the civil war when he had the emancipation. this should have been wow. instead the massive backlash happened with a bree installing slavery by another name and having andrew johnson systematically undermined what the civil war should have been about and then having the u.s. supreme court got the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment as

well as the enforcement act and the force act which dealt with racial discrimination in desegregation in public facilities as well as going after white domestic terrorism so when you have the president of the united states, the governors and the u.s. supreme court issuing these edicts and these executive orders and these laws that undermine bad advancement of what freedom meant that's white rage and i carry it through to the great migration throughug the brown decision to the civil rights movement and through the election of barack obama. >> one of the things he did in the brown decision as you talk about how wasn't fully implemented in some places in san antonio for an example. >> part of what we see there in san antonio is that you have this massive disparity so you've got the sense of equality with

the 14th amendment and equal protection under the law. in a neighborhood of san antonio there was overwhelmingly mexican-american and an african-american they were taxed at the highest levels allowed. still only able to generate a few dollars, $21. head. student per-capita. where is the edgewood district which was a wealthy white suburb for san antonio basically tax themselves at a lower rate. because property values they were able to generate so much more hundreds of dollars per-capita. so the mexican-american parent said this is fundamentally unequal, fundamentally unequal. we are taxed at the highest. because public policy that is the value of their property we

cannot generate enough income enough tax dollars to adequately bring adequate education for children to be the u.s. supreme court at that and said equality does not require equal funding so that disparity that you saw then and that we see now was blessed on high by the u.s. supreme court. let's go carol anderson knew most recent book is "the second" race and guns in a fatally unequal america. 42 million african-americans -- and according to statistics 25% of them are gunowners. that has doubled in the last 10 or 20 years. >> guest: i'm not surprised. one of the things that i look up was how access to guns that anti-drove the 2nd amendment so

regardless of the legal status of african-americans free blacks which was at peace between citizens and emancipated african-americans. jim crow african-american civil rights movement african-americansfr obama african-americans regardless of that kind of legal status where we think of the progress we have made the fear of black people has created this crisis that we are looking at. it is driven with that amendment so african-americans buying guns when you begin to think about the terror that has rained down on the society you saw the lives of the right-wing alicia during the bonus present day saw the rise of white gun ownership

during obama's presidency and then we had trump and you saw the embrace of white nationalism and because of that technologyof the kind of police violence that rained down on black folks so you had african-americans doing what theyin have consistently de which iss to say we have to defend ourselves in the society. nobody's coming to help us. it's just. >> host: is this a book you thought y your right to ride in right to write and was it something you thought about for quite a while? >> guest: no actually. it really was the killing of philando castile that didd it. my body of work is built on human rights and civil rights and african-americans and when the philando castile was gunned down by a police officer because philando castile had a license to carry a weapon, that was why

he was gunned down. the nra the national rifle association went virtually silent on his killing of a man simply because he had a gun. so we have pundits asking don't african-americans have 2nd amendment rights? and i went oh that's a great question and that's a question that i have not explored. i went hunting and i went back to the 17th century. >> host: what did you find? >> guest: i found this incredible fear of the enslaved and the free blacks and the laws coming through to try to deal with what they than can to try to protect the white community from the enslaved from free blacks and the key element in that was disarmament almost the banning of access to guns.

so you saw with laws coming out of virginia and south carolina where thou shalt not have guns for those who are enslaved and for free blacks and you saw this coming through in the constitutional ratification convention where you get to virginia and virginia is like i'm not sure about the constitution thing and why was virginia not so sure about this constitution thing? one of the key elements you had patrick henry andtr george mason saying this militia that we need in order to keep the enslaved in check james madison put control of that thing under the federal government, under congress so we can't rely upon the fed to defend us.

the federal government has folks in there from pennsylvania and for massachusetts. they are going to be coming down here to defend us so we need to have the protection or we will be left defenseless. they basically tried to scuttle -- and when that didn't work they try to hold a new constitution -- constitutional convention. the articles of confederation had not worked and so they had pushed through this new constitution that gave the federal government enhanced powers but there is this fear that the federal government was too powerful and this is why we have in the first congress the bill of rights. when you think about that bill of rights the freedom of religion, the right not to be

searched and the right to free to round the right not to and unusual punishment the right to a well-regulated militia for the security of a free state? that scene is an outlier and that outlier is basically the bride to the south to not hold a new constitutional convention. it's to say you are protected in the militia is safe. >> host: were you surprised by what you found? >> guest: yes, i really was. so much of our discussion today about the 2nd amendment is about the individual right to bear arms oly was this really about a militia? >> get this binary going on. it's all about individual rights coming out of the supreme court decision or is it that mcdonald's decision or said about the militia that the

supporters long held this is really about a militia but that argument that binary argument is irrelevant. it's irrelevant because the foundation of the 2nd amendment is the fear of black people defining african-americans as criminals as dangerous and a is violent and the white community has to beco protected. and i went wow. that's why things began to make sense in its own weird way. so as i walk through this book i take it up to the 20th and the 21st century and the ways we understand citizenship for gun rights and open carry and a castle doctrine to be able to defend your home against an

invader. those kinds of doctrines that becomein foundational, stand yor ground. those kinds of doctrines that become foundational when they are applied to african-americans they don't hold and i went wow. i have examples in their of tamir rice who is in an open carry state a 12-year-old boy playing in a park with himself with a toy gun. he didn't have the red tip on it is that hi i'm a toy. ohio is an open carry state and as long as you are not threatening anyone you can carry your weapon openly. police within 22nd shot tamir rice down. he was dangerous.

he was a threat and i juxtaposed tamir rice. kyle rittenhouse where you have the 17-year-old who hasn't ar-15 who strolled by the police officers and kenosha wisconsin or where there was a black lives matter protest and the police are like we are so glad you guys are here. you want some water? it's hot out here. he then shoots three people. two of them he killed. he walked back towards the police officers with his hands up. they don't see a threat. they don't see danger. they are not n afraid. that speaks only in about the 2nd amendment. cisco carol anderson were you in any way shape or form a gun person prior to writing her most recent book? >> guest: a gun person? it wasn't like it was pro-gun or

anti-gun. i was just here and it was like i said it was this discussion about philando castile that really sent me down this path of really trying to find to african-americans have 2nd amendment rights? i think always is a long hard word but i have generally been one that says we need to be reasonable about guns. the semi automatic weapons being ready -- readily available to civilians makes no sense to me,. none. you can't kill a deer and eat it's afterwards. it's just a the logic. ar-15 surfer hunting people. and so the basic logic there. >> host:be welcome back to the

booktv "in depth" studio and this is the first time in two and a half years that we have been back with a guest in the studio and we are pleased that its emory professor and author carol anderson. if you've been listening you've heard some of the topics we have been talking about today. your participation is key on booktv. here's how you can get through. your phone numbers first off if you live in the east or central timezonel (202)748-8200 is a member free to call in if you live in the mountain or pacific timezones (202)748-8001 and if you can't get there on the phone or would like to make a comment by text here's the text number in the surfer text messages only please include your first n name in your city of the wood. (202)748-8903. we also will scroll through her social media site twitter, facebook.

just remember @booktv if you'd like to make a comment on any of those sites as well and will begin taking notes in just a fel minutes. carol anderson how long have you've been in emory? >> guest: i got there in 2009 from the university of missouri where i was there for 13 years. >> host: why did she transplant yourself in georgia's? >> guest: emory is an amazing university and it was an opportunity to really grow and thrive and to be in a place surroundedro by scholars who wee asking really tough hard questions and seeking dancers and then there's atlanta which is an amazing city. >> host: columbia, missouri,

atlanta. where did you start life? >> guest: i started life in columbus, ohio. that's not accurate. my father was in the military so i was born on an army base in with that in germany for several years and then he retired from the military after 20++ years and he then moved to columbus ohio because he wanted mike whether to go to a university so that's where did a lot of my growing up. >> host: where did he go tool school? >> guest: my undergrad in my masters was at miami university and oxford ohio and my ph.d. is from the ohio state university. >> host: why did you decide to become a scholar? would appeal to you about that in getting a ph.d.? >> i love learning. there were always books in our home, always books always discussions in the house about

what's happening in the world and about politics than about civil rights andou about injuste and it was me trying to figure this thing out. i had wonderful mentors along the way that really helped me figure out how to become a scholar. there was allen angle who was my laww professor at miami and i knowoi this will be hard to believe that we were going n. ib popped off and he went ms. anderson may i see you after class and i'm going through the oh my gosh i'm going to get thrown out of this class and it's a five hour credit class and a loose full-time status and its rolling through my head and i walk up to him and he said have you ever thought about going to graduate school?

i went yes but i have no idea how to get there. he said come with me. so having mentors like that that helped shepherd me through what could be a very arcane opaque process was instrumental but it was that natural love of learning. itwo was one of those kids who would read the world book encyclopedia or may to z and read it all over again in case i missed something. >> host: what do dt ted emory? >> guest: i teach the civil rights movement. they teach 20th century african-american history. they teach war crimesic and genocide. teach american human rights policy. they teach the black athlete in american society and at one point i taught u.s. cold war foreign-policy. >> host: let's go back to your home state of georgia. you have to black athlete running for senator.

>> guest: yes, we do. yes, we do and so what we really have is a deployment of representation that is not representative. it was the same way the republicans tapped -- to run against obama thinking herenk somebody black that ought to do it and it was the same thing with herschel walker. the football star out of the university of georgia wow let's put him up against raphael warnock and what we are seeing is someone who has a history of violence, someone who consistently lies about his credentials and someone who has not thought through policy. so to have someone in the reason he is here's becausen he's blak

not because he can do the heavy lifting of being a u.s. senatorl it's a ploy and so the answer he gave after uvalde and after the killings in uvalde, texas he said how would you handle the issue of guns and he said cain slew abel and then you've got this disinformation and so what we need to have is a department where you have a department that looks at young men looking at young women on social media as a constitutional right and it was like ari hard drive that had be. it had these little sound bites and then he strung them together i know i need to say something about the pipeline now i need to say something about social media. i know i need to say something

about constitutional rights and disinformation and that's a we got but that wasn't policy. that wasn't thoughtful. so it is in fact to think that black folks are going to run that way simply because he's black. that's not enough. >> host: have ever been in ebenezer when pastor warnock is. she? >> guest: . she? >> guest: no, happened. >> host: is it hard to get in at that point do you think on a sunday morning into ebenezer? can anyone come in? is so anyone can come and i'm sure. ebenezer is a storied church. it is a bedrock foundational to the history of atlanta into the history of the civil rights movement. it is where reverend dr. martin luther king. at it's where daddy king was pretty its ebenezer.

it is ebenezer. >> host: a lot of news reports indicated that the 2022 georgia primary election after the georgia legislature made some changes to the voting laws went very smoothly. >> guest: i'm going to like and not, likened liken that to how suppressive can it be when you have this great turnout and whatat that narrative doesn't lk at this all the mobilization of civil society and all of the work of the new georgia project all of the work of the black voters matter bill all of the work of the naacp, all of the work of the lbs and the aclu and colegio and asian-americans advancing justice. all of those groups trying to move folks through under beyond over across the barriers to the georgia legislature set in

place. so i liken it to somebody tries to rob you and they don't succeed if you were able to fend them off. they are group of folks who are able to fend theme off. does the fact that they weren't able to be successful to wash away the fact of they tried to rob you? know because they tried but you have a group of folks who tell you that person was mugging you. when you look at s.b. 202 it's the -- of georgia voters. it's predicated on the big lie the trampy and big lie of massive voter fraud that no one can prove because it didn't happen and it is predicated on how do we stop its?

we had incredible turnout in the 2020 elections in the 2021 runoff. in the 2021 senatorial run of black voter turnout wask almost 92%. now when you are in a democracy with multi-racial multiethnic multireligious you embrace that kind of turnout. we did something right. on with this?inue unless you are going for a -- democracy anywhere like how do we stop a this? vizco professor anderson last question before get l to calledn all your books the subject of human rights plays a role. it doesn't permeate necessarily that you bring it up and you weep it in. why in. why is that? >> guest: human rights are so foundational for me.

it was my first book in my dissertation that became my first book. i asked the question how could all of the blood, all of the courage, all of the effort by civil rights folks lead to an america where the life expectancy of african-americans has declined where you were having massive disparities of infant and maternal mortality? where you were having massive wealth gap that shape the kinds of ways that people can move hethrough the society. how could the civil rights movement that is one of the things we herald, we look at this going we have overcome. this is the unfinished business of democracy handling that business. how could all of that has still

left the america that we are in and what my research showed was that we had the civil rights movement not a human rights movement. and i wondered how that happened because you had not come back saying how was the black man going to give his civil rights before get to's human rights and everybody is like while? what i found when you had the naacp and w.e.b. dubois saying the same thing a generation earlier. so what could. that level of community amnesia as if macomb was the first one to say it and that's where i found the power of the cold war andol the power of anti-communim that defined human rights the right to health care the right to education the right to housing as communistic. those are the things the soviets want and if you are real patriot

you wantnt that. and how those witchhunts were systematically just targeting african-americans and african-american organizations that worked were fine for this human rights platform to the point where it became safer to argue on a platform of civil rights and safer doesn't mean safe because we know the violence that rained down on f folks. r we are fighting for civil rights so became politically safer to be able to argue on the civil rights platform that all we want is whatt is in the bill of rights. what could be more american than the bill of rights? then to talk about the right to housing, the right to health care come to the right to leisure, looking at the universal declaration of rights

because the u.n. has been tapped as a -- some i work really gets the truncated rights and the residuals of what that looks like as we live through the sum air cup. let's go i promise that was the last question before we go to calls. couple more came to mind that we will hear from leo in the bronx. leo you are on with author and professor carol anderson. >> caller: thank you. ms. anderson i enjoyed seeing you on c-span when you spoke to college students. my question is stacey abrams changed her position. she used to be against the idea of requiring people when they vote to present i.d. and i heard recently she changed her position. can you explain why?

>> guest: thank you for that question. part of what you were saying has been basically the work of the sense that voter i.d.s are reasonable. voter i.d.s are -- everybody hass an idea -- an i.d. and we had n voter fraud, voter fraud, voter fraud so it's not too much to ask for people to show an i.d. in order to protect democracy inde order to protect our elections. they looked at polls and it was something like 70% of americans believe that voter fraud happened on a regular basis or something like that. it is% believe it happened regularly and so coming up against that it allows for a discussion about we have got to have laws that protect our voting rights. when that becomes -- a you have

voter i.d. and most americans believe voter i.d. again because it plays to middle-class norm and the racial a discrimination that's inherent in the ways they deployed voter i.d.. it felt like a battle, a battle to far. >> host: cornelius and alexandria, louisiana good afternoon to you. >> caller: good afternoon c-span. ms. carol anderson i'm enjoying your stuff can i see your a history professor and i was telling a college friend i was a democrat for a long time but i joined the republican party because of some different things the democrats were doing. our parents were kennedy democrats but they were republicans first because the

republican party -- african-americans and stuff at my question for you, i believe in, guns and bullets. our constitution if you look at ben franklin he said this is a representative public. so not a democracy so we are supposed to be a representative constitutional republic. i agree with you on a range of issues. when philando castile was killed the should never done that and the nra should have said something. after the civil war the nra was trying to teach blacks to have gun ownership to protect themselves and the democrats had to plan. i don't know if you know thedo history of the democratic party. the withhe the military wing of the democratic party and they were the ones i came up with the

jim crow laws and all that stuff. >> host: cornelius very quickly why are you a republican today? >> caller: because the democrats have to us. they have always wanted to defund the police and they don't want us tofu have guns. all of us need to be armed up. armed up america. >> host: cornelius thank you very much. professor has somebody raise that point you in class? w >> guest: there were couple of points there. one was what the democrats are and yes after the civil war the democrats were the party of white supremacy unabashed white supremacy. one of the things that has happened though was called the southern strategy and what the southern strategy did was ask

the democrats began to deal with the issue of civil rights for african-americans because of the great migration because african-americans were moving out of the jim crow south is that you have the republicans going oh there is gold in those hills of white resentment about civill rights and d.c. is being deployed. you see it being deployed in 48 nec at being deployed in 52. you see it being deployed in 64 and you particularly see it being deployed with richard nixon in 68 and with ronald reagan in 80. so if you wonder why we have this demographic shift it is because of the southern strategy where the republicans brought in the sense of anti-civil rights as their mantra. and the issue about guns is we are killing each other. one of the things we often hear

about is crime. that isbl the narrative of black mythology. yes over 80% of what people are killed by black people. over 80% of white people are killed by white people but we don't have the narrative of white on white crime. why is that? sometimes you have to ask the next question and what you also have if you had washington d.c. and chicago have implemented gun safety laws to try to deal with the homicide rate in those cities. you have the u.s. supreme court first in the heller decision and then withn,n the mcdonald decision, undermine the safety laws and you saw guns plugging into those communities again. this is why after uvalde while you have governor a vet talking about yeah but what about

chicago because that becomes a kind of trope of black violence that is deployed consistently by republicans. >> host: text message from kelvin in baltimore. good afternoon dr. anderson. how does the evangelical right play a part in fueling our divide in our society presumably and its influence in the supreme court i.e. the federalist society? >> guest: the role of white evangelical christianity is powerful. it really became a force i want to say in the 70s and really to coldnd in the 80s and has not let go. there's a wonderful book called the longlled southern strategy y todd shields and angie maxwell thatll looks at the three pillas

of the strategy. one of those is racism. another pillar is patriarchy and the other pillar is white evangelical christianity and the role that it plays in the republic and the domination of the the republican party and its shapingin those policies. so we are seeing this in the recent scotus decision where you had in maine where maine was only funding secular schools and vouchers for secular schools and where you had the white evangelical schools going hey we moneyome of that publicic to end the supreme court says e you have to do this. it is where you have the recent decision where the coach was kneeling on the 50-yard line and you had the supreme court ignoring the evidence that this

is a public school. this was asc public event on a public field where you had the power of the coach around his players kneeling in a prayer. you have to ask yourself this thing happens to have a devotion.el are they going to be eligible for public funds to? part of what you see happening is this narrowing definition of what is religion and you have lauren boebert for instance talking about the declaration of church and state. that's the first amendment. treating it as if it's made up so so much of what we are seeing in america is with history, made-up history and a means to justify policies that are absolutely to our democracy. as for the next call for professor carol anderson comes

from pamela and maryland. hi pamela. >> caller: hi and thank you for taking y t my call and dr. anderson it's an honor to speak with you. i've been married 36 years and an african-american mom with two african-american sons and husband. i'd like youo to know, can you speak to the issue and the ideology that we are still hiding the confederacy and its ideology through the states rights that have been sued from andrew johnson and lincoln's assassination who was the staunch states rights supporter and the restoration of the confederate states for their civilo government to get back n power and as a result it deprived the freed slaves of their civil rights and liberties guaranteed by the federal government could for example

they never got their 40 acres and a former would get the money for every slave around $300 a something to that effect. how all of this is still going on in the undercurrent today and how in the 60s like you said the republicans began to embrace the states rights ideology and i thought they were dixiecrat that the former democrats embracing the rights of the federal government to protect african-americans and others. can you speak to how innocent we are still fighting this confederacy and the ideology that is just changeho forms? >> host: pamela before we get an answer can you tell us a little bit about yourself? you live in a very nice community one of the wealthiest black majority black communities inin america.

have you faced some of these issues that you talk about? , come a public servant and i'm a state employee and they work for young ladies on medical assistance and the undocumented who don't have health care and we provide health care and make sure that they have access. so i'm a public servant and i believe in giving back. i was raised by my grandmother. i lost my mom to pneumonia at a very young age. but i see what we are dealing with. this is the stuff i read about and i never thought i was living in a time when my rights would beg ends assaulted in having to go vote. my family came from alabama. my mom was born and raised in alabama to see what we have to go through my father was born and raised in georgia so the people we have to face here in 2022 is mind-boggling.

>> host: thank you. professor anderson. >> guest: absolutely and i was giving a talk in virginia and i said one of the places when you look at germany germany had a denazification program. we never had to de-federalization program. we never looked at the confederacy and dismantled it in its entirety. insteade what we had started erecting statues to it to its leaders robert e. lee, jefferson davis. we started having in our textbooks because of their daughters the confederacy the lost cause becomes this heroic event and when you begin to think about what that means for the way that her children learn and what they understand so slavery really wasn't that bad. you had benevolent kind of owners. you had, the enslaved were fed

well and they were closed and they had housing. what could be so bad and you had this big mean north coming down and trying to impose its will on these really good honest hard-working noble folks. when that becomes the narrative that's in our textbooks until the 1970s and think about the battles that we have had recently overtaking down these confederate monuments in these public spaces. because what's that telling us is that this is who we should be honoring and so we have got these tectonic plates underneath american society that basically says the confederacy they were good. slavery really wasn't that bad. i think about bill o'reilly who

after michelle obama talked about living in a house that was built by the enslaved and on his show he says you know you're really wasn't that bad. they were house, they were well clothed and they werecl well fed so how bad could it be? when you get that coming in in the 21st century it is the thing that we have not dealt with. we have not dealt with slavery and when you look at how the states are demanding a revision of the curriculum so that it doesn't make life feel too uncomfortable, but it doesn't cause a kind of sense of being ill at ease and so we don't talk about slavery and i saw where in texas they are thinking about renaming slavery as voluntary a

relocation. so we create these euphemisms to cover the horrors of what this nation has been through. when you don't deal with the reality of slavery and you don't look at the v reality of genocil violence against indigenous people and you don't deal with the reality of xenophobia and the anti-immigrant policies, you don't deal with the reality of the relocation of the japanese, when you don't deal with any of those realities you don't understand america and frankly you do a disserviceca to america because america is an aspirational nation. we hold these truths to be self evident. so having folks fight to make those truths self-evident is a key piece of american history. but when you remove that and you

treat those aspirations is that they have r.d. been achieved that is what allows for the embrace of confederacy and the whitening up of slavery and the whitewashing of slavery. i remember i got a notice from an organization that i have been supporting that said come visit our beautiful plantation in mississippi. it's true southern charm and i thought what is this? i sent them a note back and i said no more than you would herald a tour of auschwitz as a testament to find germangi engineering. should be look at these plantationss as anything than what they are place where human beings were bred and born and

beaten were worked without pay, were tortured and the slave labor camps. when you try to it up you defile america's history so part of what we are looking at is the defiling of american history by not dealing with the confederacy and how was able to maintain its power through the southern and now through the republicans. a skosh of those plantations be maintained as a historic site? >> guest: yes they should and they should be maintained as historic sites the same way a auschwitz is maintained as a historic site. you need to have accurate history inne those sites laying out what really happened there. there was one of those battles

and annette gordon-reed is really the one who talked about this those battles overe monticello thomas jefferson where prior to you had this one of the founding fathers who said oh my gosh he was brilliant and wonderful so you are like where was sally hemings? that narrative, that history is essential for understanding the battles that we have in america the kind of we hold these truths to be self-evident. we have got to protect slavery. we are the leader of the free world. we are at the jim crow leader of the freear world. that kind of dichotomy is absolutely essential for understanding this nation. >> host: the next call for carol anderson comes from mesa, arizona, nate. hi nate. >> caller: this is a wonderful

show. i never watch watch c-span but it does happen tod turn the tvn and i just got intrigued. i'm 60 and they lived in mesa, arizona and i had returned to school back when i was 47 to go into entrepreneurship but until recently in a class i had to write an english paper. so i basically just picked a topic of the disproportionate concentration of african-american -- in 1835 so i called the paper and as i was

listening to you you are a teacher you are professor of a masters program? is that correct? >> guest: i'm a professor at emory university and the department of african-american studies and i have two doctorate degrees. >> caller: myy grandfather was a historian so i was thinking wow i wanted to get my masters but i wasn't sure what i wanted to do and then i just turned your show one and i heard you talking so my question is and for those who may have the same question i can go to emory. is there an on line masters program? >> host: thank you, nate. >> guest: none of my classes are on line. during the height of covid we went to online classes for the

protection of our students and the faculty but we are now back in the classroom. >> host: carol anderson we always ask authors with their favorite books are and what they are currently reading and i want to go to what you said about what you are currently reading. usually we get specific titles but but this is a quote from an e-mail.m a civilian. i'm a judge in the category for the national book awards in your book so been listed in that as well. >> guest: that's why what are you reading? a bazillion books. they are coming in and i'm going with them. athey are fascinating. it's really intriguing seeing authors wrestle with different types of subjects

across-the-board. >> host: is this the first time being a judge? >> guest: i was a judge last year or the pulitzer. this is the first one for the national book award. >> host: how many books we have to read before the ceremony in november? >> guest: we get somewhere between 6000 to 700 books, a bazillion [laughter] and plowing thr them to make we are making really good choices.ha .. from here to equality. which of those five books do you want to speak to? prof. anderson: i think it is going to be somewhere between

jasmine ward and steve larson. and larson. the who kicked the hornets test. andow i know thaight sound like a really odd choice. this is a better based in sweden. it is fiction. i think i have. treporter: it maybe five or six times. i love that book. speaks to my sense of justice. it speaks to my sense up even if you are looking at a leviathan, you can take it on and win. it's going to be hard. it is going to be tough. the story deals with a young woman who was brutalized by her father but her father was basically a secret agent for the

government. so they let him get away this violence against his family. he had had enough for this is the fertile like the first book the girl with the dragon tattoo. so she had had enough and set them on fire. they committed to an insane asylum. and then she has a ward who abuses her, not a ward a trustee who abuses her. when you see this story unraveling or she is getting on the heart and soul of a corrupt government. one that defies the constitution. one that had set itself up outside the government to be more important than the representative government that was there. when she takes them on. she has an incredible journalist was helping her.

she has an attorney who sees how the law can be deployed to help her. she has incredible computer skills to help herself. undock combination, that book speaks tois me. it is about justice. it is about holding folks accountable who abuse the trust in government. who abuse the trust of the people. corrects them about an hour left with our guest author carol anderson we will put the phone numbers up on the screen if you'd like to dial in 202's area code 748-8200 if you live in east and central time zones (202)748-8201. for those in the not mountain and pacific time zones and if you want to send a text message and said (202)748-8903. please include your first c name

and your city if you wouldn't. we alsote have social media sits that we will scroll through in case you want y too make a commt that way. louisville, kentucky hi. >> caller: good afternoon. i am an african cultural scholar 71 years old and i've been listening to the show. i blocked it out early in the week dr. anderson was going to beyond and i went to speak to her. but dr. anderson is a look at your second book and b forgive e i don't know how i don't know more of you and better of you because you are outstanding. but talking about your something that's happening now that i want you to address. i see kentucky maybe it was friday for police officers were

killed. and also a few days before that young african-american man was stopped by police when he was not comfortable and hede fled. he ended up getting 90 shots fired at him, 60 entered his body i think his name was in jail and a walker if i remember correctly. the crux of what i'm asking is i want you to speak to how can under the second amendment we all have a right to bear arms. but when african-american person hasri a gun you cannot even attempt permits anymore. i'm thinking about getting me a holster and a gun in carrying it openly. then we'll have gun control they see african-americans and mass walk on guns on their hips and we will have gun control. but what i want you to address is the whole dynamic of the white man can kill x amount of people. somehow they can capture him

without a scratch and then take him to burger king. but on the flipside is you are talking about african-american man doing everything lawfully with a weapon. in the weapon gets entered into the discussion with the white police officer they gun him down and theyy just gunned this young boy down shot him 60 times listening to you and it and you are fantastic. try to went thank you. >> guest: this is really what i'm talking about here. with the book, the second period you look at amiri lock who was a young man up in minneapolis he was in his apartment and the police burst through and basically a note knock warrant. and he has a gun by him as he is asleep on the couch. they see the gun they say threat and they shoot them dead within ten seconds.

is what breonna taylor supposedly had and she is that is what catherine johnson in atlanta supposedly had a know she is dead. the ability to protect your home from innovation, no. and then yes, jayland walker. i am leading through that story in the time i read someone then down inup the hail of 60 bullet was the quadruple lynching in 1946 and monroe, georgia. men and two women to black men into black women were basically executed in the hail of bullets in the corners report described is 60 in each of their bodies. what kind of fear that house to

generate to create that depth of violence against that young man. when you think about it the guy who shot up that movie theater in aurora, colorado. he was taken alive in the parking lot. twelve dead, 70 wounded something to that effect. and dylan gunned down nine folks in church during bible study and he is taken alive. and that is what i mean by white is not the threat black is a default threat in american society. armed black is an exponential threat. this is why during the late 1960s in california who saw the passage of the mulford act. that's because the black panthers or openly carrying arms to police the police.

because the police were raining down violence on the black community. there was no public entity willing to do a dog something about it. until the black panthers said he will police the police. the new law about open carry. they knew the law about what kind of guns they could have it. they also knew how far they had to stand away from the police. the police hated it the depth, breadth, height and social reach they hated it. until they ran to dan conservative assembly men in the california legislature city got to help us. got to find a way to make what they're doing is illegal. we pulled them over we cannot arrest of the knowledge of anything illegal. mulford writes the law with the help of the nra. eagerly signed by republican governor ronald reagan to ban the kind of open carry that the

black panthers were doing so you do not even have to come up with a hypothetical black folks arere carrying guns are going to see some gun regulations happening here. we've got a history of that. hugs denise, jacksonville, florida goodll afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon pray love c-span. when i found out dr. anderson was going to be on the show i set my tv up so i could watch it. i just want to thank micks miss anderson for the books she has written. i did not realize that i didn't know much about black history in america until i start reading your book white rage. i was just shocked. y i just thank you so much. going to buy the other three books you have out there because i decided i wanted to invest in self of your 2019 the black

lives matter movement went on. and i didn't realize how much i did not know. so want to thank you for f that. >> host: denise q tells a little bit about yourself? >> well yes. i'll be 55 this year. live in jacksonville, florida. i became interested in politics when i started learning corporate finance at the university for my undergrad degree. but when i start looking at politics and seeing all the different things that were going on and could not reallyco relate to it or could not give an educated conversation with it is when i started investing in myself to learn these things.ut i was shocked. i did not know about a black code after the emancipation of black slaves. i did know myself someone else brought it to my attention in

oklahoma and they always said white people will say it black people will tear up some word they learn from? like every time black people would be successful why people get envious and jealous and tried to destroy them. accents now he can't advance future education and experience that makes sense to me. >> host: thank you ma'am. chris will leave it there. my first two books were academic books ice off the price and bush law radicals. they're both for an academic audience. by my writing cell is very accessible so it translated really well and to being able tt

provide these rich histories, well documented rich histories for a broader public there are so much we are not taught in schools. we are seeing that push again. so in florida there is a push not to have the kinds of history that can talk about rosewood, that can talk about florida 1920 we basically have ethnic cleansing because black folks dare to try to vote. whites burned on the black part of town, ran a black folks out of there for the next five decades there were no black people in florida. mice do not know that history if we are not tossed if it is not made readily available to us. that is why do this work. i believe once we know our history will have a very different conversation about where we are as a nation and what we need to do.

you mention a bush radicals was more scholarly one to read a quote for their and have you explain it. we went semantic rabbit holde the maa cp a s standardbearer fr her. andre soviet union synonymous wh anticolonialism, increase the way into a wonderland at the cheshire cat from the histories of colonialon liberatio struggles. [laughter] >> that is quite a sentence. that.congratulations on speak to what i was dealing with their wife that since 1971 in this book came out inbo 2015 o so. 2014? since 1971 they histories that have been written about decolonization struggles, the role of african americans and

decolonization schedules. thee dismantling of the empires in africa and in asia they have alt champion the left, the role of the black left in the role of the black itself. basically water boys for truman and imperialism and colonialism. they basically said the naacp turnedey its back in 1947 with e rise of the cold war. turn it back onn the struggles and left it toef the left. when is finishing up eyes offhe the prize one last week the archives there could be that document that just blows your whole book apart you just want to makek sure. i'm going to the papers and i find this letter of the somali youth league in 1949 says thank

you so much for all your help in the un and keeping the italiansi off of us. i want what is this? excuse me? when you know you've hit something. that became the foundation for booze walked radicals. they're going to go wherever the naacp went and they whimpered they took on south africa. they took on the dutch and indonesia. they took on the italians or somalia, libya and eritrea. they are taking on the struggles. i figured out what they were doing was dismantling the norm that made colonialism and imperialism acceptable. so they took on the white man's burden or the european powers to walk into meetings my empire is so big my empire is bigger than your empire nervous as i want to have that empire. they made being an imperial

power not a badge of honor but a scarlet letter. so watching how the naacp was instrumental in reshaping the norms of imperialism and again it's only will may have an narrative of the left and doing thisk, work we do not understand how change is made. and i wanted to able to excavate that narrative. because having the soviets of the avatar all that is good and just in the world, no, no. there is just a longer history there and i want to make sure that it's clear. heaven naacp denigrated as a toady is now the historical records show. >> teaching, writing books, you also do public speaking as well.

you get invited quite a few places, correct? >> yes, i do yes, i do. >> at one point is everything too much? >> well, we've got a documentary coming out soon. that is a great question i am asking myself. but there is just so much work to do. we started this conversation, this a democracy is in trouble. it is under a full-blown assault unjust jusco lord i am tired just does not sit with my sense of justice. it does not sit with my sense of the girl who kicked the hornet's. it doestst. not sit with my senf right and wrong. and knowing the vision the right has for a nation is a vision

that will send us hurling back to a place where we may never recover. we have got to fight. sue and keith, middletown, connecticut you are on book tv with author carol anderson. >> hi, thank you for taking my call. i enjoy listening to dr. anderson when ever i have had ae chance to hear her speak on c-span. and like many of your previous callers i was very happy when i learned she was going to be on your in-depth show today. i just wanted to make a couple comments and get doctor anderson's thoughtsts about the, regarding gun rights versus voting rights. if i am not mistaken i believe there are four constitutional amendments that deal with voting rights. and it seems like we have numerous states that are trying to put up barriers and make it more difficult for people to

vote. and that we talk about the second amendment and people's rights to keep and bear arms people are aghast when anyone tries to put any type of regulation or any requirements in just within the past week or two i think it's very sad when the supreme court i think ruled against the new york law that required people to show us for carrying a weapon outside of the home. so to me it seems like a bit of hypocrisy we cannot put any type of regulation on the second amendment the people's rights to carry weapons. yet it seems we have tons of states trying to restrict people's rights to vote. >> i think we've got the point thank you's are. hugs and thank you for that. in fact they had a student write a paper on that very dichotomy.

and so one of the things that you see here is because the 15th amendment and the 19th amendments, and the amendment that bans the poll tax in the amendment that lowers the voting age to 18, all of those have been under assault. absolute assault. we see that for instance in the ways that you have state removing of her instance of off of college campuses. in north carolina they have divided on university between two separate congressional districts as a way to dilute the voting power of that hbc you north carolina. the way they had fewer early voting days for prairie view a&m

in texas that they had with surrounding wallen county. we see this consistently. we see this in terms of the banning of thee poll tax for yu had in florida when amendment four came through that re- enfranchised felony convictions and you have the courts rule after the state legislature came through and said they were scared about that ballot initiative coming through. after one than the state wrote in line saying okay then you have to pay all fines, fees,de restitution in order for your sentence to be completed. the federal courts ruled that it is not a poll tax. except i do not have to pay my income tax to vote. do not have to pay my propertyav tax to vote. but here is the payment i have to make in order to be able to vote. but even worse they added the horrors of the literacy test in

the previous literary tests were questions like how many bubbles and a bar ofbl soap? how high is up? here the court ruled florida does not have to n tell folks hw much they owe. so florida can require you make payment. florida it does not have to tell you how much that payment has to be. text a message hi dr. anderson my name is pastor ellie brown. i m am from springfield, missou. the question is what would you believe is most important message that ministers should speak to in our world today? i love that question. that message is what i'm hearing from reverend william a barber that this is a god and jesus. that we are here to help all of

us. that we have to heal the sick. we have to feed the hungry. weat have to clothe the un- sho. we have to do that work. there is a greater humanity at stake here. when we in fact the question we earlier received the role of white evangelical christianity. this is when i talk about folks putting their hands on god to put forth their own agenda. instead of letting god put their hands on them. unmoving in that way were a better world. for a safer, kinder, much more humane world. that i think is a powerful message. getting folks out there ready to

vote in getting them to the polls. because that political realm is so important to be able to create a much kinder, gentler america. >> the next call is lou in las vegas. lou thanks for holding your on with author carol anderson. >> wowow, you guys are knockinge out t too. i love everything i've heard pre-thank you for taking my call. i grew up in los angeles, group with in a group with kids who've never heard of john franklin. my earliest memory was of mccarthy hearings i did not know whatat they were i remember my mother going nuts and armstrong called out i i can said you goto

ado something and as time wentn i realized i am old i am still hearing the same stories in the same battles the guy who was beating his head into the wailing wall in israel and said what are you doing i'm praying for peace in the middle east and for people to get along just like you are there 17 different religions and the guy says how do you feel? so i like i'm beating my head against the wall. and now it's 60 years later and ing am thinking nothing has reay changed except awareness, knowledge and people knowing about books. right now i'm reading one of james baldwin books that devil

finds a worker. takes him back to the 30s with betty dave is ice for himself. we still judge people by their looks, how beautiful they are or how ugly they are. and yet we still have this other thing going. when i was ten or 11. >> host: uber going to leave it e there and see if professor anderson would have anything she would like to add to that. next part of what a prescient and part of what voter suppression is designed to do is to make you think that there is no hope. that it is always going to be this. it has always been this, it's not going to get any better why bother beat my head up against a wall? the thing is, the reason why we are still in this struggle is because we are still fighting.

we are still fighting an oppressive force. and because we refused to give up. we refused to accept our subjugation. and that is so important. we refused to cede our power. because it is in that fight. it is in that struggle where we continue to move forward. or we continue to be able to create the knowledge. what we continue to be able to protect our community. when we don't struggle when we think this stuff is just messed up than all of our protections are dissolved. that is why we fight. we have to know what the game is it went text message please ask dr. anderson if she is familiar with the work of professor john a lot who is taught at yale law school in l his book more guns less crime.

next i am vaguely familiar with john lott. john a lothe is one of the heros of the second amendment schools of individual rights. guns, guns everywhere kind of deal o. of being against gun safety regulations. as i had mentioned earlier, i have not been a pro-gun, anti- gun. but what iab have been is for reasonable gun safety laws. there is no reason to haveav a semi automatic weapons in the hands of civilians on our city streets. that just does not make any sense. and so it is being really common sense about it and not doctrinaire.

>> and helpers many of them of the universities a critical foundation of the system, who appeared week neutralized in some assumed officially by the dominant culture,. >> okay, i thought a newer that was headed can appeared in another way and i think the part of what you are laying out here is that there are dollars who feed on the kind of deals in american society and provide cover for that and this is why having freedom within the university and freedom of expression within the university, are so important because what that does swing of

evidence-based scholarship, you are allowing that evidence-based scholarship to do the heavy lifting of democracy and you're able to discern the difference between that evidence-based scholarship in the ideologue. >> what you think about some reports that the academia has been overtaken by the left. [laughter] >> affect. >> i guess you do not agree with out and so share. >> oh lord, sorry, i think that is also part of the smoke and mirrors that is out there that is designed to denigrate the incredible work coming out of these colleges and universities in terms of scholarship because

if you condemning for scholarship, then you're able to create a new truth, truth that is not fact-based that is on evidence-based that we see that happening a lot. so this is why saying thoughtful i have to say, when you talk to block scholars in the academy, you'reho not seeing this incredible left that is taken over, you're looking at the kinds of treatment of power in working through that in order to do this work. >> the next call c for doctor carol anderson comes from carol pennsylvania hi carol. >> hello have a question if there's any roads and research into to compare the laws of changed so significantly over the years for the disabled, i am 86 years old and i'm in a wheelchair and i worked as a vision therapist were usually also program from 60 or 58 - 68,

that was 49 percent black and 5 of positive things to say about the black community and local black author has convinced me that i should write a book i'm not a writer but i would love to see more research i can prove that loss can change people's lives and i don't think there's been anything done in the comparison between race and the disabled that i can find animate interested in your opinion on thatop and also. >> i apologize carol, we are going to leave it at the first question, there's a lot there and mostly of doctor anderson has a response for you think you for calling it. >> the role of disability law and policy, are absolutely

essential is one of the key movements forward that made this nation much more humane and so they seeing the way the race works in the disability policies is also essential and there is some work done and i've seen some of it i can recall the names off the top of my head right noww. but basically, doing library searches like it world cup search, search on your local library and find you books there there and building and if you have access to university libraryat that can give you it s called jstor so you can see the articles that is been created and produced this doing this work and that will give you the kind of foundation that you need to see what is out there and where your intervention would be really important cf. 20 tech, cincinnati, good afternoon.

>> hi radio call, happens to be a librarian and she also tries la library and african-american part could help you with that and also also national vibrate medicine in maryland the reason i called is i am 71 and. [inaudible conversations]. and i grew up when i was little girl with mr. rogers and basically we are literally hundreds and my father has a cumulative over the years and really by the fbi twice so i know this one of my question to doctor radner and anderson is

really taken back by a comment you made earlier in an angry and knowing about culture and i was wondering iwa wanted to explain something back in my sorority and how can we talk to these young people to let them know that this is not history, this is life this the way we live my parents grandparents talked as if this were living situation pretty cesar history this is a continuum and thank you. >> thank you, sent the question is, how do we you know, we are consistently - by the lack of knowledge about tulsa, and how many folks said until he saw

watchmen, they didn't even know tulsa happened. and you know about like when civil rights movement, i start my class going, you know, how many have basically heard of the civil rights movement and also sat down and in dream and we all overcame 70 get that incredible movement, we do reduced to ross and martin overcome, then what we lose is the massive local organizing that happened the make the movement happen and so when we do not have that history, we have this sense that this is happened to quickly and that all you have to have the leader, no, it takes a lotta folks, a lot of hours and commitment and so it is knowing that history so how do we do this in one of the things is that i do have on the emory

website, basic five-minute hiddenes called histories of civil rights where provided it and those soundbites that allows the teacher to be able to use that in the uclassroom as a foundation for greater discussions and for greater knowledge there also some incredible websites that are out there the governor lehrman institute, unblinking rightt now, the civil rights movement veterans website that have the documents in the narratives the really can provide access to the knowledge and that's what we really have toav be good facing history and ourselves, those entities have provided a much broader access of were to this history that

helps us understand and, i mean, this is one of the things that one person will vote, and that what we are now, with what happened then and so that we can see the through line we can see what is it faulkner, the path for theth past is #in the past d going that line but something like that, the past is still with us, we're still living at. >> tweet from stuart your books are essential to understanding need for aia complete history ad after the backlash against nicole hannah jones in 1619 project, do you know of an academic effort by community to the diluted history. >> you know, so see is through

the american historical association to the american bar association for the study of african-american life ine history, and i am saying that those organizations are really doing the work of ensuring of vendor histories taught and that it is preserved and i am seeing this in archives in the archives are working overtime to make sure the original documents in the original artifacts are still there and so that we can see them and so at emory, we have our stuart rose librarian in there for instance, we have the papers and we have to find the actual history signs from resurrection city which was the poor people's campaign in 1968 that continued on after the assassination of martin lutheran

king and so you see archives and you see historicalhi organizatin really doing this work but it behooves all of us to that when you have the school board flooded with angry parents, and put that in q quotes because sometimes those folks don't even have children in those schools. it behooves us to pay attention to that and to participate in that process so that is the backlash from teaching divisive history and history makes our children feel uncomfortable is in fact being pushed back saying thatsh we must know this history we cannot be the nation that we can be if we keep telling lies about ourselves and if we do not understand how we got here. >> about 15 minutes left with our guest, carol anderson, the next call for her comes from

frank in west palm beach. >> hey good afternoon and i wanted to say, the show is excellent and professor is very very good i disagree with almost everything she says but that being said, my question is, can she explain why the crime rate especially the murder in a black communities and in major cities is so out of control, is that a white issue was that totally a black issue. >> frank, before we let you go, why do you disagree with the professor anderson. >> because i am on the right guess maybe that is my best way of putting it in some of the things that i hear, i just disagree with and.

>> do you anyway consider yourself to be racist. >> why never have, that being said, somebody might look me in the face and say was but i never have and i do believe i am. you.ank >> so the framing of that question, i thought was quintessential, when we have all ofy this murder happening in te black community as i remember earlier when i said, any percent of african-americans, over 80 percent of african americans killed by africanof americans ad of 80 percent of whites are killed by whites. and what we don't get then were talking about all of this black crime, that is the narrative of the block pathology in the narrative anti- blackness that i laid out in the second because what is saying that blacks are inherently violent and criminal

and so therefore, we must have weeping the white community must have protection against the source of credible instability and violence in american society. now what we got to are those issues of watching what happens when her schools are devalued and defunded and what happens when jobs go away and what happens when we have this massive massive discrimination company and their employment processes news incredible research out there this post that if you have a racially identifiable name, but the qualifications are the same as someone who does not have a racially identifiable name, so for instance notion equipped try jackson, has resume and jennifer to jones has resume in equal qualifications, and jackson will

have to a send in multiple, multiple resumes and letters to get the interview. opposed to jennifer jones because of the inherent racial discrimination and so when we are looking at kinds of biases that are in american society, that limit access to jobs not limit access to housing we have incredible studies about what that means in terms of the dickerson discrimination and knew healthcare and when we look at the discrimination leasing, and when we are looking at all of this, and we were just asking about black folks killing black folks were not looking at whites to kill whites and were not looking at the kinds of structural inequality that are there in american society, they were not asking for a real answer more asking for the kind of soundbite answer to have

footed you think about frank's think that i like everything that you're saying i'm letting the show disagree with everything. [laughter] >> i think it's a smile of the coronavirus. >> yes, iof just smiled becausei had that before, and i might great, come with the evidence, come with the facts and come with a historical documentation it, come with a valid research studies. know, it does not work with the somewhat immune about the kind of undermining of academia because what it does is it undermines the rigors of the research in the rigors of mlss night how i feel, on par with that intimate how i feel become part of policy and instead of the rigors of work.

>> carolyn tallahassee florida hi. >> hello and good afternoon. and thank you doctor anderson for your work and my question has to do with whether or not doctor anderson can address what appears to me i hate to use a lot of but how other populations in this country that are nonwhite but there are no black seem to pile on and promote for perpetuate stereotypes against the blocks and if there is any comments you can make towards that it also if you have a book that addresses how we as black people can utilize the capitalistic ideas in this

country to kind of help better and position have a better impact on the economy in this countryha and i hope that makes sense. >> thank you. >> someone of the things come there was two different books here one is how the irish became white and when the irish how they were treated horrifically in the mean, bottom of the barrel close to bottom of the barrel and what he documents is that with the begin to learn american society is that the way into whiteness, is anti- blackness and so when you're talking about the piling on, this was really going out in the other am sorry cannot remember the authors and right now, but dealt with how japanese-americans and chinese-americans became the model minority. that happened in the 1960s,

and so are you having the civil rights movement happening, while you're having this for saying us become america, you have this backlash that puts the asian americans as a model minorities as opposed to these black folks and what she lays out here in just a ofwe how to govern the chinese exclusion act and the come i it when my brain just price i got. in the internment the japanese in the 1940s now we go from that and from the banning of all asian immigration in 1924 national origins act do we go from that kind of policy to model minorityl the 19th 60s

and asian americans went from being off-white in the 1890s to 1920s to the 1940s to being, not black in the 1960s when you're having civil rights movement and the black power movement and so that kind of linguistic turn that then elevates see they believed in family the asians believe education, they believe in hard work and they are not looking for a government handout and so you get these kind of trust that attached to the model minorities as a way to help create the fishers innate community of color. one of things that we are seeing is that has powerful is that is, that's like an old british colonial thing, divide and

conquer. one of the things that you see slight human rights frame camarillo are in this together and we all work together we see this with a bullish note of a mockery of a state of florida, the builds with the tomato grower hand this organization and mobilization of the workers, you saw the human rights frame, were you had african-americans and you had latinos and you had whites all working together to improve the quality of life and that working conditions in the tomato fieldsin in florida predt someone folks would try to split them apart from like no, no and that's what becomes so essential in this again is where i go back to reverend william, the moment he is grading is multiracial and

mostly ethnic and religious because that is where the power lies smith year olds calling from the u.s. virgin islands neuron with author carol anderson. >> good afternoon ms. sanderson. i have a question. [inaudible]. i am studying the 19 hundreds from the early 19 hundreds up to the 1970s are you familiar with harrison and the negro movement in his work and. [inaudible]. and when your book, i thought at the in aa cp had dropped the ball in the work in our time but when you explain the work of the of done for people of color, ane the u.s. and inside of the he

goes me another perspective of themem it currently in my opinin they dropped the ball their efforts in being able to affect real change for people of color in america. >> were going to leave there but i did want to ask you, is your research personal or professional. >> i wish i had teacher like her and owing to morgan state i wish i had a teacher like her and morgan state of the time when i went to my think you for calling it. >> yes, sort of, too vague for me to be specific. because i really focused in on throughd taking it the 1960s and so the focus of my work early look there for incident and seven in aa cp

national negro congress and the council of african affairs and so those were the organizations that i was following through in my work in american committee on africa and so seeing those organizations and how they were deployed, strength and how they were succumbing to theircc weaknesses was absolutely essential for me in terms of thing out howyi the struggle for decolonization work. >> six books down and is there another one in the works. >> there is one of my hat,. >> would you like to share it with us and do group therapy with you on this.th >> okay. [laughter] as a one of thinking about is a book that i'm entitling, the ties that bind in silence african-american response toli political violence in haiti, congo and nigeria, 1960 - 1970

and in my initial research, one of the things that i found, was okay so let me give you a broader concept to that is that when i'm intrigued by our organizations that say they are there for the people to protect the people and they don't. one of the forces that create that in one of the forces that create things to move that's when i saw in haiti and congo, not looking at five different organizations, five liberal organizations, the black liberal and i am not seeing them really engage with the violence running down in haiti and congo, why, why wouldn't they been so involved in providing resources to those nations and in fighting for those nations and arguing the state department at the white house for those nations and at the un, for those nations

and why, with a black folks are getting slaughtered. >> what did you get the idea. >> it was me being stunned at the silence because the same time when haiti is erupting in this violence are not seeing very little anyway but what i am seeing is that sharp bill, south africa happening in these groups are all over south africa for the violence and massacres that rain down in sharp bill and i went, so they get the protection of black folks i get how they got a buddy pulpit to fight for this and why not here but then i see them really getting engaged in the civil war in nigeria and so the question is, why within the same decade, what was it

that changed because this level of engagement that i did not see the first two. >> the last two hours argus has is carol anderson recent books include by rage, unspoken truth of our racial divide, and one person, no vote have the voter suppression is destroying our decracy and most recent book, "the second" recent guns in a fatally unequal america thank you for your time of the sunday. >> thank you so much peter, this was wonderful. >> book tv, every sunday on "c-span2", featu leading authors discussing their lady latest nonfiction books and live at the texas book festival, in-depth this morning and author mark and his books include the last republicans and the incomparable grave and jfk in the presidency, then at 2:00 p.m. eastern, watch our live coverage of the tas book

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