>> our speaker is doing this tonight from london and to his everlasting credit and i asked him you want to do this at a time that's easier for you? he said no, no we can do this at 7:00 eastern time. he said this gives me good practice for staying up for the super bowl.

or as we caught around here the top brady and occasional. this is a this. he is the professor of italian studies at university college in london. he has been a recognized nationalist including doing a full-time -- so he gets it's a little bit of a different topic. but he has finally are with this kind of thing so would you welcome our speaker tonight sub eight. >> hello everybody. it's very nice to meet you all virtually. let me dive straight in so i can leave as much time for questions

and discussion afterwards which of course is always the best. what is freemasonry? the sworn brotherhood of men originally and still to be clear only primarily men who are together dedicated to a program of self-improvement and the chief means of self-improvement comment they use rituals and symbols and moral qualities. the rituals are if you like miniature model dramas that masons act up at vast numbers of symbols are used in these rituals. masons through the history have hoovered up more and more symbols to use from all kinds of cultures and folklore since the one to use in their rituals but

the original and most important of these symbols comes from the work of stonemasons with compasses, squares plumb lines trowels and the like and the ideas metaphoric way speaking that the freemasons built better men as the stain moe -- stonemasons built castles and cathedrals. so straightforward and sort of ordinary in a sense but what really galvanizes freemasonry and particularly galvanizes its history and makes it fascinating and surprising and pushes it in all kinds of the directions across three or 400 years in history is secrecy. now when you become a mason you undergo a secret ceremony in

which you swear to protect certain secrets with your life, secrets which are further and developed in secrecy by being hidden behind symbols. so what are the secrets and why all the secrecy? do you they really mean it? can we trust a group that is so determined to keep things hidden from us? now in my look, i do explain and i do it early on, what the secrets of freemasonry arpad this is a book which is not an exposé. there is actually much much more to masonic secrecy than what the content of the secret is in you can find out the content of those secrets with a little bit of googling.

.. on the 14th of march, 1743 as he was leaving the coffeehouse, john koo stuffs a 40-year-old jeweler from london was gramps, handcuffed

and bundled into a chaise. a short time later he found himself in one of the most feared building in europe. looming at the northern end, the espoused palace house the portuguese headquarters of the holy office of the inquisition. just like hundreds of which is , heretics and jews had been brought by before him, he had his scalp shaved it was stripped naked save for his linen undergarments. confined in a dungeon he was subjected to a meticulous regime isolation and silence were rigidly enforced a prisoner with a cough was puddled into unconsciousness. note communication with friends and relatives was permitted, no possession no book no bible, nothing they

would interrupt divine conscience. nothing to block out the prisoners all too vivid imagining of horrors that awaited him in the inquisition. the grand spectacle of religious justice was a procession culminating in prayers, incantations, and public execution by one of two methods. the mercy of strangling for those who embrace the catholic faith at the last minute and for the obstinate torment of the flames. cool stuff tells us the inquisitors initially questioned him and a spiritually nurturing tone none the less he had the clear sense that his replies were futile. eventually he was summoned from his cell and brought before the president of the

holy office who read out the charges as if talking to a wall. that he has infringe the pope's orders by his belonging to the of the free masons. this sect being a horrid compound of sacrilege and many other abominable crimes of which the inviolable secrecy there and the exclusion of women were but to manifest indications, a circumstance that gave the highest offense to the whole kingdom. in the said koo stuffs having refused to discover to the ink

design of the meeting of the freemason and persisting on the contrary and searching the free masonary it was good in itself wherefore the proctor upmost rigor. and for this purpose, desires the court would exert its whole authority and even proceed to torture. kruschof was taken to a square windowless room in a tower, quilted padding lined the door to deaden the sound of screaming from within. a doctor and a surgeon looked back at him from the shadows. the only light came from two candles on the desk or set waiting for his confession. four men seized him and

clamped him by closing an iron collar about his neck. the rings with ropes attached to his feet and yanked his limbs to their fullest extent than eight loops of cord, to over each arm into over each leg work pass through the frame and fed up to the torturous hands. he felt the cords tighter and tighter until finally start to saw through flesh, blood spattered the floor beneath him. if he died in the storm and he told only his own obscenity would be to blame. between his own crazy her pose the questions he had already heard it many times. what is free masonary? what are its constitutions? what goes on in logic meetings? eventually he fainted and was

carried back to the dungeons six weeks later the inquisitors tried again with a different method than his arms were pulled slowly upward to the solution would leave from their sockets the inquisitors persisted with their questions, is free masonry of religion, why do you not admit women question is it the. [inaudible] he spent too much recovering, this time a chain was around around his torso and attached to his wrist, pulleys and drew chain ever tighter squeezing his why all the secrecy in

freemasonry what you have to side hide? he tells us in total in the dungeon and endured nine bouts of torture before the time finally came for him to be paraded through the streets in the 21st of june he's lucky there's four years as a galley slave the relative freedom afforded him gave him the chance to contact friends when he reached london on the 15th of december 1744 he set to writing his story.

he barely begun in the rebellion workout. prince charlie stewart raised his standard in the islands of scotland intent on enforcing his catholic claim to the throne that had once been his grandfathers. the army defendant as far as darby in the heart of england sewing panic and london. although it was eventually crushed the rebellion revived the appetite for books documenting the barbara pharisees of the roman church. the sufferings of john's free masonry complete with engravings of all of the torture he had endured was published at the perfect moment. he became a celebrity, the book was widely translated here was a martyr for free

masons and it's inviolable secrecy. except, things did not quite go in the way he said. over two centuries later, the inquisition's transcription of his interrogation served from the archives to reveal he did give away free masonry that he vowed to protect. there he sensibly, faced with the prospect of the torture chamber he told all. indeed he rarely waited for them to open their mouth before answering all their questions. not that his confession saved him from being tortured, portuguese inquisitors are rarely needed much of an excuse to break out the instruments of pain. they wrecked twice for liver

15 minutes each time just to make sure. but he was never subjected to the nameless of torture with the chain wound around his torso. something else he neglected to tell his readers is at the lisbon inquisitors looked hard enough they could have found a published sources that would've taught them what they wanted to know. mike masonry dissected of 1730, exposes a free masonry on nearly as old as free masonry itself. the sonic secrets have never been all that secret. kruschof evidently found the temptations and pass himself off as a hero want that liberty he adopted his story

momentous or dangerous truth to which only the chosen few can have access. they are bound by oath to safeguard at any cost. secrecy as inquisitors collet is elusive and powerful. it is the while of all that surrounded the freemason. it inspires loyalty and attracts trouble. kruschof's get as i think he appreciated secrets are not as important as free masonry as stories about freemasonry. secrecy is the key if we can grasp it we can lock rich

narratives about how the world we live in was made. that was how the book begins. and from that point we try to open up the history that we find fastening the first is the virtues of freemasonry. it was born in the kind values we associate with the enlightenment that are embodied in the constitution in the united states for example. those religious racial tolerance and free masonry

with a doctorate of universal brotherhood. we also believe in a formal equality in whatever background they can. yet if you like aspiration to universes, one of the things that attract me too freemasonry, in this devotion to rational fraternal it's based on a string rituals. it's based also on exclusiveness. on a firm boundary between inside and outside it. the universal values expounded for most of its history by a

brotherhood that is excluded women and in various times struggles over religion, race and social values rather than the antidote to those tensions and struggles. so what fascinates me is the interaction in this world of free masons and the forces that have shaped world history over the last three centuries. so what my book does is zoom in, into various times and places eat chapter erie's name of the city for example. i roamed the world in pursuit to bring into focus with real

people or involving stories where freemasonry had an influence on history and history has influenced free masonry. the book begins by recounting the origins takes us through the courts of the king whose portrait you can see on the right and 1603 would become james the first of england sorted king to unite the two crowns. i'm paving the way for the formation of the united kingdom.

james the first was it intellectual king. he was an expert among other things on witchcraft. he wrote a book that would become shakespeare's major sources for the which is in macbeth. the cause of king james saw an almost magical mixture between the culture of jameses elite stone masons, people who were building their palaces, chapels that sort of thing. and the statesman from non- stone masons to be attracted into this a body and gradually taken over and turn the tools of stone masons trade in two

symbols rather than merely tools of the trade. it was really in london, a century later that free masonry probably became code defined and acquired a single governing body in 1717, the grand lodge. it is from london the capitol of the emperor that speaks of the constitution of 1723 that famously drew up the first proper rulebook for free masonry and was key to being spread around the world because it was capitol of the british empire, hub of world trade and it is from london it's expanded around the world benjamin franklin was the first person to publish those constitutions in the united

states. in france as well when he spends time with her become most for tile soil the book is not just a history freemasonry. that's the history of the masonic idea that is one of the most contagious ideas in the history. what is remarkable, this is an illustration from the 1730s celebrating the world wide spread of freemasonry. ready by this time you had lodges in turkey, and sierra in india and what would become

the united states in the united states and the caribbean as well as mainland europe and across great britain. it was a spread of this idea. and over history, and terms of an example of british power of sports like golf, tennis and so on. has become global sport over the course of the centuries, and in the course of that global spread free masonry expand completely out of the control and london and became

an influence reached into all kinds of other walks of unpredictable walks of life. and so there's a trace of the spread of that idea if you like. the most important is the attempt to use freemasonry as a virtues as a kind of non- denomination or religion of state. in a pioneer in the course of his presidency, his two terms really had to design the

institution of the presidency around his extremely prestigious person. and picked on free masonry for a long time by that time. as the sort of perfect fit for replacing the role that religion and the monarchies of europe the coronations and all of those ceremonies which established religion closely associated with the state in europe. in a sense of divine mission through states and monarchies. in washington he chose to lay the cornerstone of capitol

building in a very public and very well-publicized masonic ceremony, really set a trend for the way the young republic would kind of speak to prosperity through free masonry. using a free with its code of religious tolerance it's acceptance of multiple faiths, very quickly the founders of free masonry has accepted catholics, jews the different flavors that were already spreading in great britain at the time and the tolerance towards catholics was seen from the story was quite remarkable it was political

subversive for time. like all men of his time, washington realized republics did not last. the lessons of history since classical times were unmistakable. in the bid to shore up the legitimacy of republicans tried to give it a long life he adopted free masonry it was not just in the united states that this happened. the man in the picture you may not recognize it's really the progenitors of indian nationalism, one of the major figures of the international congress which is the political party that would guide india to independence

from britain after the second world war. this is a photo i think from the very early 1890s. the little boys sitting at his father's feet there would grow into become the first prime minister of an independent india the world's most numerous democracy. about half of the early leaders of the indian national congress work freemasons. and they saw and free masonry like george washington a school of >> virtues a way of teaching, forgive me, a way of teaching. [inaudible]

the rulebook of conducting meetings with mutual respect formal respect to the rules. and also religious tolerance indian nationalists at the time. the big problem they face was the cultural divide and free masonry it seemed to way of overcoming that. but free masonry has found its values and tolerance have been tested to the structure by many moments in the global history to with which it became part of. and i concentrate on two strands really in which that happens throughout my book. with more than 30 years of

history the first is the empire's is a masonic parade with the grand master of the united england at the time parading, showing off its prudential's which is now zimbabwe firmly part of the british empire. free masonry support network for british imperialists on their travels around the world. one of the secrets of free masonry success and distressed masons the widows of masons can get from the brotherhood. but also free masonry gate and imperial soldier and imperial bureaucrat traveling from sake

canada to south africa, to india a kind of home from home. an instant social life. an instant network. also free masonry values repeatedly provided a cover story for imperialism. the idea it was the british were just conquering the world because they wanted to own large parts, they were doing it in the name of universal brotherhood and so on and so forth. there's something fundamentally deceptive about the weight masonic values were provoked on a freemason during the long history of the british empire. the other histories much more american. despite free masonry universal values embracing tolerance

from the beginning, free masonry in america almost as long as there's been free masonry in america has been racially divided between two distinct traditions. one the mainstream white the other african-american puts it takes its name from its founder of freemason who became a mason in the 1780s. i interviewed howard university ring is proudly displayed per he is a young story and with freemasonry based in washington d.c. it was displayed at the same

time. that racial fisher in american free masonry is really fascinating keyhole through which to observe the long history of racial strife in the united states on the struggle for civil rights although free masons supposed to be above politics they swear not to be involved in politics. inevitably free masonry has played a very important role against slavery the famous 54 massachusetts regiment. the african-american freedmen recruited after the emancipation proclamation. which was recruited primarily by prince's freemasons. many of whom noncommissioned

officers work freemasons. and the civil rights movement was also profoundly influenced by free masonry. there are many, many other examples. and at the same time i think the history of the white free masonry in america has been tainted by racism. to be the moments of history. what that free masonry's it is been found one thing of history.

use nakedly as the tour of power and the empire for example the stuffed masonic lodges with his military officers and bureaucrats his brother-in-law, who became his napoleon appointed king of naples. that is mount vesuvius in the background you can see smoking the volcano. it's also the grand master of naples and like napoleon field his administration with the military offices and ambitious bureaucrats and many other

times and places. it's also a template for other organizations. it is a profoundly influence. in the early 19th century. they have rituals for example heavily based on so on and so forth. the ku klux klan borrows the template of the freemasonry. most interestingly beginning and southern italy in the early 19th century space

exactly template made its way from the political sphere into the criminal sphere that man you can see there in the green jersey in 2008 was the last man to aspire i never none on. as all of the other members of the ruling commission of the time. the man as it happened next to him, then colonel monai chino,

general mineo g, a friend of mine who worked a lot and knows a lot of people involved. lucas american sister organization is a sworn secret brotherhood, members of organizations join families it's a metaphor not mean it's all related. it's a metaphor for how closely knit they are does not mean they're all none on. those families and cells of the organization like masonic lodges but like being a member of the masonic lodge you also become a member of a wider network with contacts particularly across the atlantic and that is when the secrets.

initiation, codes and rituals and so on it is unmistakably stole the template if you would like. free masonry has got a lot of important role in making manhood. making what it means to be a man, particularly a middle-class man. a model of respectability if you like in various times and places across the world. the book until the story of a particular person in 18th century spy expert sought on diplomats expert sought scandalous whose joined the freemason and then subsequently went about

dressing as a woman and it's difficult to know what contemporary term we might apply but became something causes free masons to question what it meant to be a man of exclusivity. the free masonry has generated conspiracies. it has been the model for many revolutionary conspiracies despite the subaru on politics to various times and places, have become hubs of political conspiracy of revolutionary conspiracy. if you revolutionary need to

maintain loyalty as a way to do that. recognize him, was the master of the most notorious lodge of them all. which was mixed up in all kinds of corruption and terrorism and blackmail and money laundering for the mafia and so on and so forth. they would subsequently be to old bars. the illicit profit dealings in until the story of how he turned this particular masonic

lodge propaganda into the most notorious from a conspiracy of all time. susan conspiracy of the here and there are more prevalent are the completely groundless conspiracy theories that really the modern conspiracy theory, as we know all too well you count queuing on and all of those kinds of things, there is a secret elite working to control world affairs. the model is freemasonry. and it was invented the modern conspiracy theory was invented

in the very particular time and place. it was invented by jesuit priest working in london in the aftermath french jesuit priests with xl for the friends revolution which disestablish the church, persecuted the catholic church. he took refuge in london trying to end 1797 published a book which tried too if you like, give simple explanation for the complete disorientation the world felt at this seemingly accelerating upheaval caused by the french revolution. and in seven volumes collecting a crazy assemblage of evidence he came up with the simple theory. it was all caused by conspiracy, by the freemasons.

in the catholic church has always been hostile the pope excommunicated the freak masons for the first time in 1738. you put that on the trail as we saw john kristoff is one of the victims of those inquiries. but in the 19th century the idea the freemasons was responsible for everything bad about the modern world became the official for the catholic church for there's no getting around the catholic church. without the freemasons were agents in the aim was to abolish the church or abolish world anarchy. and that theory in turn became a template for a remodeling of conspiracy theories.

twos had already been hated and expected for religious as well as racist reasons of anti- semitism. and even the vision of the judeo masonic on this new version in which jews were scheming behind the scenes to control world affairs and secret controlling finance and so on. that version of the conspiracy theory was very definitely modeled on freemason. would go on to inform the not quite as brutal as the masons

themselves claim. by the dictatorship not by hitler, mussolini, general franco in spain and other dictatorships, but across the communist world masonry is still banned in china. also across the muslim world. there are only two countries in the muslim world were freemasonry is not vacant. it is basically banned on the ground insult jewish, western, cia conspiracy. so willy-nilly therefore, free masonry can be filled across world history in strange and unpredictable ways. the freemasons themselves have got very little to do with it. and that is the story that i

try to bring together in my book. thanks for your patience. >> thank you professor that was awesome. if you have got a question, as we said at the top use the chat feature down there. i guess my first question is, what drew you to this? as somebody who studies italy, was at the parallels to what you studied before to study this? >> that's sort of a funny story that hangs by that. as you know one of my areas of expertise is massive organizations i've written a number of historical works and academic articles and so on on italy's organizations.

an uncoated in the media and quite some years ago now a mafia boss was arrested on the outskirts of london. it's not something happens every day in london. the guy had been on the run for ages. he was living under an assumed name. disguised as a fairly humble limousine driver driving backwards and forwards in a london. he had been on the run 1993. is the boss of the mafia family which is part of the sicilian capitol. so it was august, there is nothing in the news that's what we call the silly season. i was pretty much every tv, radio, news channel i spent a whole day and a half and the

studios talking about, it is a bit like the free masons. it is indeed how many members of the mafia who have turned states evidence to find it. think of us like the freemasons for criminals. when i got home i got an e-mail from the head of communications of the united grand lodge of england saying would you like to come in for a chat? the free masons up and down england had phoned in to protest that i was comparing them to the mafia. so i did of course go along. i talked to the historian, i realize there immediately i think that there was i only

knew a little bit about history of free masonry. particularly form an angle in italy has a very important role in the history of free masonry, that's why spent a fair bit of my book in there. the united states occupies so does britain and italy they are the major bases if you would like. italy because of the catholic church long history of fear and suspicion of freemasonry. free masonry is first repressed by mussolini in 19205. and also the whole history of collusion between free masonry, crime, the p2 story and various mafia organizations to the freemasons in italy.

so, i knew a bit of the story. then i realize, i got the sense you had to duck their version of the history which was the noble tradition of brotherhood and so and in so forth. much of the rest of the world, particularly in italy and britain less so in the united states were free masons had a better reputation it's regarded as less of a menace the regard the free masons to be self back scratching our mutual backscratching organizations. people join the masons to get a better job to get a contract they would not have gotten otherwise. that kind of thing. these two versions of free masonry is noble tradition or

as grubby cabal had not emerged and defined people's perceptions, dominated the journalism and that was this dialogue. i want to try to write the book that would both inform freemasons, challenge the way he thought about free masons but also inform the rest of us on the non- mason myself. those would never consider joining free masonry. they hang on these guys have got an interesting story to tell. there is something about free masonry we need to take seriously and find out more about. so that was the story. >> what originally drew you, you mentioned benjamin franklin was a big proponent and a big salesperson for this.

what caused the original problem between the catholic church and free masonry? what was the impetus for that? >> the first question first. the catholic church regarded itself as having a monopoly on truth. any doctrine, any body that regarded, welcomed all comers to express their religion was guilty of harassment. and quite possibly much worse because of the secrecy we could not really know, if they were so honest it must because they had faith. the great architect the universe which is the masonic

expression for god for the almighty, must be stay tuned. it is a code word for stay tuned. they were right for political reasons remember the pope is also a king. he has a kingdom, he has a realm. as an autocratic realm. there is no democracy, there's no association. so people meeting in secret associations are by definition a threat. so that is the reason for the original hostility. that is what is maintained through the centuries still to this day. the excommunication stands with freemasonry. your other question, i think people at washington were attracted to freemasonry

because payment done was a school of public virtue. it was a status symbol. it was a way to socialize with other like-minded men. masonic lodges often became places that held meetings, where they had lectures were they pursued good causes. that was integral to private life. masonic secrecy has meant different things, free masons are very open they would hold public parades mark the special days, one in christmas one in june or they would hold parades having their role in

public life. that was happening in colonial societies exactly the same way and the british society at the time. >> why the aversion to women? and in your book to have any information or research about the eastern star, rainbow girls, the female offshoot if you will? >> yes. by the aversion to women is interesting. in part, the issue is women were excluded from everything anyway. property, government, social life.

but it is not that straightforward. because there is a strong strand of enlightenment thinking that women were a civilizing influence on men. that social life to be polite had to include women among the elite classes of course. and so, while in some senses went free masonry became codified and london it was automatic that women would be excluded at the same time it did also attract trouble for freemasons. under suspicion toward them. right at the beginning people say you're doing this because you are homosexuals.

that was the accusation. and it still causes trouble to this day. the grand lodge of england very quickly into kinds of traditions and codes and so on. also began to admit women in various forms, usually subordinate forms. for example in france is really where this was pioneered. there were women allowed to become members alongside men. in the of night it states you had the order of the eastern start which originally founded for the relatives of the female relatives of free masons, members of the order of the eastern star are not

freemasons and some people might regard that is patronizing if you would like. it's a bit like a particular bart set aside for women with a mixed association and some very conservative golf clubs that used to be. so free masonry is always had this problem where in france the united grand lodge the grand orient of france excuse me, the governing body of the main trend dish and of free mason think it was 2010 agreed to admit women for the first time intuitive 50 years on

exactly equal status to have it mixed lodges. only did so paradoxically when is provoked by the case of the fascinating woman who interviewed for my book. who'd undergone a change. thus presenting the freemasons. they had a very heated debate about this. and said look, if they would just admit women. now, roughly 20% of joint free masonry with women. so still causes division. still some masonic will not recognize others as proper freemasons because they allow women they have mixed lodges and that kind of thing.

that is a persistent problem and one that i traced a little bit in my book. >> looking some big questions here, i'm sensing a theme. with the recent discussions about the temple or, da vinci code, things like that has that shown a different kind of light on free masonry? to know about the freak masonry in that group and freemasons is that fair to say? our mate this is always been the case. the free masons fabulous at creating mythical histories for themselves. remember i mentioned earlier the integrate all kinds of

symbols into that ritual. we keep particularly early in the history more, and more, and more rituals and those symbols came from all kinds of things. a mythical history about the most important one was the mythical origins among the builders of king solomon in the bible. a very important myth for free masons created in the 18th century was the idea the origins back to the crusaders. and particularly to the knights. because that brought with the whole baggage of symbolism, suits of armor, swords and you

name it, yes? in ancient egypt, the kabbalah, you name it. they brought in all these different symbols. those symbols and those myths associated have also been mistaken for history. many masonic histories confuse the myth making. now partly because of free masons and free masonry's many church scholars in the 19th century would trace the origins of the free masonry by following the history of various heresies. write back to the early origins of christianity they

are the inheritors of the first heretics if you would like. when dan brown published the da vinci code that create significant problems on the catholic church. unleased and army of cranks on the catholic church. and when it was announced. : : :

it was about freemasonry. the lost symbol and ended climax to exceed desk juan: it is the jurisdiction of sorts in washington d.c. this gigantic in washington d.c. and masons were terrified that they were going to get the same army unleashed on them and they would go wild so was the state of panic in freemasonry but in the end actually the book gives freemasons very good press

and i was going to not -- say not bad. freemasons get very good presidents only the bad guy who believes in the masonic conspiracy theories and he believes the freemasons are all-powerful. one of the heroes of the story is a freemason so yeah it has created panic repeatedly through history. >> what is the current status? are the numbers increasing or decreasing? >> it depends where you go. in the united states freemasonry is declining in numbers.

one of the chapters in my book is set in new york at the time of the worlds fair in 64 and 65 when there was great masonic exhibition there that really was the attaché of freemasonry influence in american life. there were over 4 million freemasons at that time which when you consider that freemasonry you know buying all the jewelry and the costumes and all that kind of stuff. you know it's only for people above a certain income bracket. it also excludes most catholics are reluctant to join

freemasonry. you know pretty much it was standard you know for a wasp american middle-class man to be a freemason at that time and that's not even including all of the other, all of the other paternal organizations for which freemasonry was the original, the root of all this vast spreading branch of american organization and it's a story i tell in the book. that is uniquely american proliferation of the record club and you name it. all of them sleep based on freemasons. freemasons were everywhere.

that era of astronauts and people and arnold palmer and body murphy. it's endless names that you could come up with. masonic president of course probably the most -- americans have gotten used to having freemasons as president at that stage. the last of the 14 masonic presidents gerald ford. from that point freemasonry has gone into steady, steady decline. there are now about 1 million although exact numbers are hard to come by and we can talk about the reasons for that declined

whether it's information or thinning that 1 million is still pretty impressive and we think there may be about 6 million across the world and there are parts of the world where freemasonry is growing. freemasonry and women seems to growing. and i could go into the reasons for that but it has tremendous imaginative power and stories to tell. >> a couple of last questions here. of the groups that you mention are the shriners with the freemasons in any way and the

president, is it true that franklin roosevelt had something to do with putting in a masonic symbol in the dollar bill? >> okay. yale you have to be a freemason to join the shriners. freemasons because they are the great joiners, the great members of the fraternity have generated all kinds of branch office association's and the shriners being one of the most popular guest and sometimes for referred to the playground of freemasons are the shriners and famous masonic symbol the eye in the pyramid on the dollar bill that's the story that i tell in the book.

there's no evidence that it was put in originally in the very early years of the republic as a masonic symbol. in fact it wasn't a masonic symbol at that stage. the pyramid was simply a symbol of the united states. there were that many layers of that in religiously to last through the ages and i is a divine providence overseeing it. so was the kind of metaphor for the new america. it's subsequently like so many other symbols was hoovered up at the freemasons to use in their rituals and it made it onto the dollar bill in the 1930s under roosevelt and fdr when the

dollar bill underwent a redesign and originally what attract did roosevelt to it was not -- he was a 30-second degree freemason. he was not the fact that it was a masonic symbol. it was a novice of a new order for the ages. this was the conspiracy theorists sang you see they want to create a new world. he thought that sounded a bit like the new deal and so it was a good way of getting his political slogan onto the dollar bill and he was actually worried

that putting a masonic symbol on the dollar bill with cut off his catholic motive and it was only i think when a catholic member of his cabinet said it's all a bit obscure. don't worry, put it on and he went ahead and put it on the dollar bill. so that's one theory or the other theory is it's the illuminati deck controls the united states from the beginning and revealed to only a few hundred million americans on the dollar bill. >> thank you very much for staying up late and doing this from london and this has been awesome and i greatly

appreciated or the name of the book is the craft. his name is sub eight and i want to thank everyone for joining us tonight. it's not the worlds greatest weather night and thank you for staying up. it's been a real treat in a real honor. >> will thank you so much for your great questions and it's been such a great audience. it's been a real pleasure and i wish i could have been there with you. but it wasn't to be. so enjoy and if you do pick up the book let me know what you make of it. through the internet the university or my web site. >> good luck with this book and thank you for joining us. hopefully you'll stay up for the super

good evening, everybody. i'm betsy fisher, the executive director of the women in politics institute at american university and. welcome to our virtual series, women on wednesdays. we're glad you're here. to those of you need to want a bar. wpi is a nonprofit and nonpartisan institute and a school of public affairs that aims to close the gender