>> a newly elected member of congress and we asked this year's competitors, what's your top priority and why? make a five to six minute video showing the importance of your issue from opposed and supporting perspective. don't be afraid to take risks with your documentary. be bold, amongst the 100,000-dollars in dash prizes is a $5,000 grand prize. videos must be submitted by january 20th, 2023. visit our website at studentcan.org for competition rules. resources, and a step by step guide.

>> every saturday, american history tv documents the story and on sunday, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books. cspan2 comes from these sponsors and more including buckeye broad band and more. >> talk about the newest book, secures democracy in just a minute but green wall at the libertarian freedom festival in

las vegas and l you're here. an oturuty there? >> there's definitely an oddity that's obvious and i wanted to perceive that and thank you for the people coming here. i always had an audience and libertarians as well and first event here and manage it had for my audience. >> the left and right knee.

>> for people tuning in and saying, ah, i know that name. everything i've worked on over the yearsim and i realize it creates a log and zen google blogger and platform that allows bloggers to be heard and find an audience andau the focus of civl liberties and the issue that over the years and he wanted to

give me and he we did that reporting. >> it's happened and the surveillance and local media and this particularly critical of the media and propensity of the bush years to be differential to and the security stage adversarial to it and end of 2012, heg e-mailed me out of the blue and i had no idea who it was.

the relationship because ofbu tt and once i was able to pocket him and found in his environment, he told me by that point he was in hong kong and went to hong kong with an enormous line and he believes it was revealed and very brave, illegalities. and maybe he'll have it with any

kind and o needless to say i called my editors from the guardian and said i need to get on a plane and fly to hong kong and checked in within 36 hours and we're there in hong kong, which is when we started the reporting and revealed the sign to the world. >> did you ever visit with him in russia? >> i visited with him in 2016 so maybe two or three years after the reporting and he never wanted to be in russia and on the way to latin america and revoked his passport and the cue bins out of that with safe passage, that he needed to in order to get to latin america and he's been in russia for a year and i visited him, he was still hoping one day to be able to leave and they have two children and building a life there and if he still has to come home, if he can, he

contends withak the likeness hes chosen. >> there's a real debate in the country and we know was the true extension of virtually everything in washington is done behind a wall of secrecy. almost everybody agrees that some things the government does should be secret if there's true movements in a war, you have a right to have it reversed and because of this wall of secrecy, they've erected the person in the name of fighting come any of them and fighting heroism and the whole line and people like this to be noted and they're

devoted to the idea of democracy and it's necessary they've not learned and voting for parties and what they're doing and i think as long as it's gone responsibly and it's into us and clear instruction and people have forgotten and work with with the guardian and largest people in the world and more. >> that's some of your american experience and now you've taken your job to brazil. how'd youw, get down there? >> i had been visiting brazil quite a bit in the late 90s and

early 2000s and working as a lawyer in new york at the time and really just this is a place weal all find the places that jt resinate with our soul and speak to us. it was always overwhelmed by the beauty and in 2005 when i went there and intended to stay seven weeks, i met my now husband of 17 years. at the time the defense of marriage act was a law under clinton years and banned gay couples from getting green cards or other immigration rights and things like that with brazil being the largest capital country in theop world offering those rights and we were only able to live in brazil together so we havenm three kids, he's nw an elected member of congress. then we've obviously kept one foot strongly planted in the united states as well. >> your most recent book securing democracy and fight foo press, freedom and justice. how do you get in double with

the president of brazil in >> i have actually had some clashes with the president prior to becoming elected president. he was member of congress for 30 years. he kind of is like an aoc or marjory keller-green strictly in the sense he wasn't in the seat of power buted on the margins bt drew a lot of media attention. ... so we've always had an adversarial relationship. my husband is >> my husband is part of an o opposition party and they've had their clashesir with my husband with him and his sons all of

them are elected officials. so we're really escalated it in 2019 on mother's day i was contacted by a woman name manuel vice president nominee that ran inar 2018 she lost an she told e she had been contacted by a hacker whota claims that he had obtained an enormous archive of files that he had taken from the phones of the brazil judges and prosecutors revealing serious criminality and wrong doings. she put me in contact with him. it was a very similar story to one i had with edward snowden that it was enormous source with a gigantic archive and it caused a lot of destabilization of the government, and it went from crude insult about my sexual orientation to explicit threats of imprison from the the president himself, death threats from movement and over the

course of 18 months or so we became enemymy number one at the movement, near the beginning of his presidency when he was kind of at the peak of his power. >> what was operation car wash? >> operation car wash was a gigantic anticorruption probe potentially the largest ever in the democratic world that began really by accident in 2014 when a money landerrer got caught through a mid-side city called curb slps shiba when they arrested him he said to them you won't believe what i have. i'm not just a small time money lander but i'm a fixer for the most powerful billionaires all deeply corrupt, and i am willing to help you discover all of their dirty d secrets in exchane for lean leniency and it was a

moving story because it is true, and everyone knowledges that brazil ever since came out of the dictatorship has been run by system corruption. in the u.s. we talk about corruption single congressman gets a bribe. you know maybe a lobbyist, by systemic corruption no laws get passed without money going into the bank account and party leaders, administers and this is how business is done. and the team of prosecutors that were assembled in the judge that was assigned to oversee the case were very young. they were in mid to late 30s early 40san at most and they had been born into brazilian democracy not into the dictatorship and took sergesly the idea that we're supposed to be abe country that operates unr rule of laws. we're not this banana republic in the middle of the cold war under a regime so this narrative was attract of that young

crusading prosecutors want to clean up their country and, you know, they began c putting into prison using this original -- kind of snitch, you know, billionaires. and telling most powerful people in theeo country and, of course, brazilians really everybody was moved to see that like finally, instead of putting, you know, young drug dealers from jail we're going to get the real criminal. people not by the hundred at a time but by the hundreds of millions at a time those people are going toll go to prison, asa result sergio morrow who was judge overseeing it and the judge prosecutors -- who became very fanatical and there was no one more popular than they for at least next say three to four years in 2014 to 2018 they basically ran country because no politician could compete with them. sergio morrow was internationally celebrated he was one of a 100, time 100 in

2016 only brazilian on cover of magazines every weekend in brazil. so the power that these prosecutors and judges had has a -- hasca anticorruption probe expanded became larger than a person should have let alone a judge and prosecutors that have been elected. and that was one of the things started to become a bit more controversial. there were questions about whether theypa were selectively prosecuting for reasons and a contact in which the source came to usnt and said that was -- that was they had invaded with sergio morrow and prosecutors and said we can prove that they've been corrupt all along andey how they've conducted this investigation. >> where is sergio morrow today? >> well, so -- one of the most important things of the m car wash probe did is that in 2017, as was preparing to run for president, the main

obstacle he had in his path was silva kind ofas legendary status in brazil two term president from 2002 to 2010 this center left very charismatic and approval rating was a beneficiary of economic growth and lifted millions out of the poverty and he was planningpl to run again in 2017. and also 20 points ahead, he ended not running because sergio morrow found him guilty of multiple charges of corruption, and sentenced him to 12 years in prison and made him ineligible to run and first thing he did upon being elected was turned around and he elevated sergio morrow from his role as, you know, local judge, a federal judge first level and made him the minister of justice of public secretary second most powerful position in brazil that wwas when we began our reportig

it was kind of a unity of fans and morrow fans. morrow ended up leaving the government about a year and a few months after -- he became, he joined it, and went out shooting. claiming that himself was completely corrupt, and that he had tried to criminally interfere in various police investigation and his children all adults and elected officials charged with corruption. and so he split with the movement and he went to u.s. for a while. made the a lot of money came backck to brazil announcing he d run for president against -- now out of prison as a result of our reporting. and running for president, the presidential candidate was kind of a flop. he pulled out before it even began, and he now announcing that he's going run for the senate. as kind of a critic of both who put in prison and one originally aligned with and now is accusing of being corrupt. >> let's go back to lula in very

view and youw have a doax him we'll get to that. was he guilty of the corruption that he was put in prison for? >> the reason hard to say because he never gotou a fair treel. there's no question that gua party thert workers party was involved in all kinds of corruption. and lua would admit that and pushed him before because as i said earlier brazil is a country that doesn't have occasional instances off corruption but ran on corruption and workers party and lua himself having been in middle of it there's no way to get anything done unless he had that corrupt machine and the workers party unquestionably played that game. the -- question of how much did lua personally profit from corruption is something we genuinely don't know answer to because the show was a show trial. it was a trial in which sergio

morrow all along was plotting and secret this with the prosecutors is what our reporting showed to ensure lua conviction regardless of the evidence. so i don't know the answer to that. but i do know that there's no doubt that lua government and lua party was heavily interacting with and dependent upon the system of corruption that has always run brazilia. >> what is your connection to lua? >> you know, i interviewed for thee first enemy time in 2016. i -- >> was he in prison at the time? >> he was not in prison but he was in the middle and a woman from the party to be the first presidential arusa. and got elected and middle of the second term and this economic boom that he benefited from turns into economic collapse and under her presidency. and so there was a serious impeachment effort underway that i was opposed to and when i

interviewed him by that point it wass clear that the anticorruption probe notot justt her but aimed at hem and my interview with him but no one really thought lua would ever end up in prison like a country putting their greatest icon in prison no one thought that would happen. but they were trying and so the interview was in that context about impeachment and possibility that people were raising possible that he would be prosecuted potentially. and -- i -- ironically i had tried to interview lua when he was in prison during 2018 but the supreme court regeneticked our request they didn't want lua heard during the election because they knew that if the public would heart from him and his voice he could sway the election that's how the hold is of the brazilian people and deniedve only when he was electd in 2018 did they finally graduate request to interview him from prison. >>ew the supreme court graduated by request, and the prison authorities authorities haveut rejected it o about -- a week or two after i got

contacted by the interview was lua was scheduled and scheduled before the store contacted me so i interviewed him from prison i couldn't tell them what he had at that point because we reported it. but he was protesting his innocence. and then -- needless to say once we began doing the reporting, that proved that the judge that had convicted him, the prosecutors due prosecuted him were all corrupt. he was freed from prison three months after we began reporting. i was the first phone call when he got released in prison when he got home to calling to thank me. he publicly was very appreciative. but, you know, my husband belonged to a left wing party that was born out of opposition to the workers party. they kind of criticized from the left and they say green party criticizes democrats it was a party that protested the workers party's corruption. so our political connection was never so close. i wasd never a supporter of the

workers party. but, you know, when someone is reporting gets you out of prison, and then that reporter is now being threatened with prosecution as a result you're, obviously, going to -- your relationship is going w to improve. and so we had a good relationship for, you know, a year or so once he got out of prison. >> when is the brazilian presidential leanings is lula still favored? >> presidential election is october 2nd. we as we're taping our three months away or so. a little less -- polls show lua overwhelming favorite, brazil electoral system is like france is where multiple candidates run and if two candidates if no candidate gets more than 350% of the vote top two go to runoff it is very possible according to poll data that he could win in first round which is -- i believe one other person has done that but it's rare and he's

ahead of any other candidate and clearly favorite who would be extraordinary given that last election he was in imprisoned under a ten year prison term and now he's not only out of prison but poised to return to power. >> greg you mentioned that the supreme court of brazil turned down your request to interview lul sarks there a compress comparable to the u.s.'s? >> free press in brazil in the sense that the constitution that brazil enacted when it emerged out of the 21-year dictatorship was based in part on the u.s. model the constitutional model they also used european models and there's a more robust protection for press freedom from the brazilian constitution than there is in the u.s. constitution that h includes for example, source protection rights, photojournalist can't be obliged to disguise indentify thehe of the u.s. and in the u.. there's a shield law of that kind. but it never has happened.

so on paper, there's a very robust, free press protection. sin practice the problem has ben because of the -- grotesque of engine long plagued the country the media has always been controlled by a tiny handful of industrial oligarch familiesny with the same interet and lack of quarrellism in the brazilian media that's changing because of the internet, ease of which to reach without having to own a a printing press or tv network so it's really improved, and when i -- did the reporting that i did, and government attempted to imprison me they indicted me only reason i can talk to you is because supreme court issued a ruling basically shielding me from any of these prosecution attempts on the grounds of a free press. the issue is lula and interviews

is very similar if you want to go now to interview julia assange in the prison you'll notice you haven't heard heard from him because he's barred interviewed they won't let him be interviewed or photographed and argument is a pretax which is prison security. but it's one that the west uses just as readily as brazilians are using used it back then to bar interviews with -- with lula but it's something that we have here in the u.s. and the u.k. as well. >> mr. greenwald is your european source he or she ever been identified? >> federal police announce they found the source and arrested a ring of six people they claim are responsible for that hacking. the person they accused of having source had publicly assumed responsibility for that. i've never confirmed or denied it in part because i never knew the identity of my sourings. i have my suspicions but if source wants to say they're one who is did it that's their right

but i won't help government by saying that i believe it is or isn't. >> when you received those documents in brazil, did it feel like déjà vu all over again from a perspective? >> absolutely i was called by congress about this -- issue i asked whether she would be okay with my husband participating in the callok just because it was a call of high intensity and importance i think -- and you want to make sure what is extra important you're not missing anything and he participated in that and i said to david who helped me in cases and campaign in london as part of that reporting. i said so him well look, you know we've already been through this once before so we're going to have this advantage that we've gone throughgh this and ty haven'tt and david said no i think you're thinking about this incorrectly last time we did it

people angry at us government is angry we're thousands of miles away at an ocean and whereas this time the government is literally on corner and this is much more dangerous and difficult and much more -- muchie riskier and one point he even joked said can't they get anybody other than a you to get thesewh archives why is it you d it was turned upside down and he knew it was about to be again so yeah for me it was déjà vu but he was trying very hard to get me to see that this is going to be more dangerous. >> how close did you come to being physically injured or -- going to prison? >> well, so pretty much from the very first moment that we began reporting. we were getting the kinds of death threats that aren't the sort of death threats that public figures these days often complain about where someone on twitter or in e-mail says you're going get what's coming to you.

these are very, very detailed death threats here's your car we know where your kids go to school, very, very alarming sort of, and you know clearly people who had access to private data and, obviously, in the government and security forces. we had to turn our house into basically a fortress and we didn't lee our house for two years without armed security and armor vehicles and the like. we had a very good friend who was a city council woman who served on the c city council wih david franco who had been murdered assassinated nine monthsss earlier in 2018, and so we took those threats very seriously whenever i appeared in public extreme l security was necessary. one time i went to a book fair and they made me speak in the middle of the water on a boat because they were concerned about my security speaking in land an everyone there there were a group of followers who were shooting fireworks at boat trying to set a the fire --

boat on fire. i was physically assaulted once by a very famous journalism in brazil who was a supporter -- >> sorry -- >> i had because you have a picture of it in the book. >> i had -- you know, just like i do in the united states where i appear on fox news a lot. or left wing -- next as well. i essentially have a philosophy that as a journalist you should speak to as many as you can there's a right wing network in brazil that's grown rapidly because it was ties to the movement -- they had invite med on several times and i had gone on and nfts middle of the reporting so their at its highest and lula out of jail and the movement angry in general and in particularly with me. and -- there's this journalist who had been in the mainstream a long time he was editor of brazil largest "newsweekly," and about six weeks prior to my going there he had gone on the air, and essentially said that --

my husband and i should have our children taken away from us that we should be investigated by the adoptionwe agency how can we whn we have stolen documents and he's in brazilia homophobic remarks something to say -- but personal you may mean when people talk about your children it should be one limit, you know, and political warfare. faand i was extremely angry abot that and last minute they said we like to put him on the show with you. do you mind? i said no i don't mind because i wanted to confront him about his comments he had made.ou and they seated us, you know, almost like millimeters away. you couldn't have made a more combustible atmosphere if you tried they, obviously, did try. and right when the show began, i said look before wean begin, i'm not going talk about any news issues i need to clear the air i demand thatth you either, you know, reaffirm your comments that you believe our children that adoption should be returned

to the shelter or apologize retract it, and he even said started essentially attacking me refusing to retract it and rhetoric escalated from there, and you know spontaneously he took his arm and tried to hit my face i blocked it in first instand and he stood up and he pushed my face again this is live -- on the air not only on radio but alsols on television needless to say the internet explode but significant part of it was there were -- the most prom innocent members of the movement members of the senate, congress the president's sons -- not only cheered and support what had he did but said oh it should have been a chair that you used or a closed fist. these were people who want to introduce violence into political discourse and kind of gives you a sense of the real tension and r danger of that moment for -- the reporting that we were doing and for the country as a whole. >> when greenwald why should we

here in the states care about securing democracy in brazil? >> well, i mean, u.s. is always cared a great deal about brazil. the 1964 acue that led to federal left democratic elected government engineered by the cia with the brazilian generals and followed was supported by the u.s. and that's because brazil is extremely important country strategically and enormous oil reserves, as oil reserves in middle east were depleted brazil was discovering bath oil reserves in a kind that is harder to extract but more -- exploitable more valuable. it's sixthbl largest country in the world in terms of population. it's the second largest country in the hemisphere. it has probably single most important environmental resource in the amazon, and so if you're somebody who cares about the world at all cares about the united states at all, you really need to care about brazil in

terms of the direction in which it's going and influences region greatly but t also brazil is one of the leaders of the -- developing world it has alliance called bricks, where it is alliance with china and india and russia and south america and bricks --- that was intended and to be a counterway to u.s. and the world and it is important politically culturally, geostrategically, and in general, i think countries are very comr connecting now than ever before because of the internet. and if one country kind of takes an undemocratic path, it is very to influence other countries to follow in course. >> the media here in america is trying to figure you out. you were called tucker carlson a friends of yours you're at the

convention. what do you got for us? >> you know, i think if you're a journal ition and people can't figure out' into which stocks they should or could place you from me that's a testament to fact that you're doing your job. i don't see my role as attaching myself to any particular fraction or being a reliable spokesperson if i wanted to do that i would become a politician or spokesman for a party. i think it is very difficult to cast me as a kind of fanatical right wing figure given everything i talked about involving my confronting right wing governments in the world. and bringing from prison one of the leftist icons in lula silva i've long been a fan of people like jeremy corybn and john luke and eva morales and olivia who i went and interviewed after he was victim of a cue. i think that what was actually happening is left, right

categoryings in the united states are eroding very rapgdly. you know, gives idea of opposing nato and left on right wing idea. is the idea of opposing big tech monopoly from censoring a left or right wing idea? i think it is increasingly nor difficult to place peoplee in categories i think for journalist in particular it should be very hard and i'm glad that it is. g >> this is your what seventh book? >>an sixth people. >> where can people read? >> as it is kind of area that -- capture of the media group that'ssp devoted to free speech that's where i gravitate to so writing is on sub staff video journalism on youtube competitor called rumble, obviously, i'm a social media -- sort of obligation if you have a platform including twitter.

and various campuses like these and various programs not just left wing youtube shows and podcast and joe rogen as well so i get around. >> glenn greenwald securing democracy my fight for press freedom and justice in brazil. thanks for joining us here on booktv. >> it was a pleasure talking with you. thank you for having me. sign up for newsletter using qr code to seventy schedule justify coming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more, booktv every sunday on c-span2. or any time online at booktv.org. television for serious readers. ♪ ♪ listening to programs on c-span through c-span radio just got easier, tell your smart speaker play c-span radio and listen to washington journal daily at 7 a.m. eastern, important

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