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c-span it now your front row seat to washington anytime anywhere >> listen to washington journal, daily at 7:00 a.m. eastern, reporting congressional hearings and other public affairs events are out today and weekdays at 5:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. easternn today, for a fast-paced report the stories of the day and listen to cspan anytime, is more speaker, play cspan radio. cspan, powered by cable. >> carol anderson is july of 2022, lessee july 4th of 1776 celebration what is it mean to you. >> it means that we are still seen as is democracy that we are

heralding on july 4th 1736 reported perilous time, to be this is perilous as it was when it was in the continental army look like they were getting butts kicked and is perilous is a look when the south attacked the port and launch the civil war and we are in peril of times with the democracies hanging by a thread. >> what you say that. >> because we have about call land, sea and air attack a shappening right now on americn democracy, going to tech is the assault on voting t rights, and the sea attack is the attack to wash away the teaching of real american history and the her attack is the loosening of the laws will having an narrative, that the insurrection was legitimate political discourse while singing thate. there was l of this violence and threats raining down on election

workers. and election officials and so when you are looking at what is happening with about income when you're looking at what is happening with our education system and the ways of the narrative that we come to understand this nation braided and when you look at the deployment of violence as at tl of politics. we are under a full-blown assault hated invented by the u.s. supreme court. aided and abetted by hyper extreme partisan gerrymandered legislature state legislature. and we are in trouble. and with the hope is that we have always fought back and always known that this democracy was with the fight and so we have to europe again and fight for this democracy, fight for this nation. >> will as a historian and emory diversity, there's been some

comparisons made to pre- civil war times right now and can you make the comparison foresees out. >> yes, in ways we get a sense of two nations in two separate nations going into very different directions in one direction is power station lesions in the fullness of the citizens humanity believe that the people have right and i believe that there is this thing called democracy. and on the other hand you have those who call when i want to say is aharon vote democracy division is democracy you have a tvast lightless liverpool is generating generous resources and they got to a small strata of whites and then with a small strata has done, is that they have convinced the larger number of whites that they also can get the benefits of this massive set

of resources coming up from this vast lightness labor pool but that's how this thing works and so you getting a sense of hyper racialized democracy only a small strata has full-blown rights versus i democracy that is multiracial, multiethnic and multireligious and vibrant. as of those two visions of what this nation is, and can be, as with a collision course is; this conversation today but end up, i want to focus mainly on three of your books, in depth and that includes one person no vote and "white rage" and "the second" and they all seem to have come from incidences that happen in a world and can you tell me if this is a fair comparison and one person come in overton we the 2018, the georgia gubernatorial race and the white

race and michael brown and the "the second" castille and is out of here way to put it. >> almost coming that one person no vote, and of the 2016, election because there was struckuc me was the plan is to save both you know, hillary lost because black folks did not show up because you know from the not - hillary because she is like hillary enemy, she is not obama is a black folks just stayed home will what that analysis deadly, as if ignored the fact that this was the first presidential election and 50 years without the protection of the voting rights t act. in the u.s. supreme court had gutted in 2013 so much he began to factor in, that you had a number of states in plummeting the voter suppression techniques, such as racially his commentary the righties limiting early voting is such as causing

bowling places in black communities. what you begin to look at that you coming up withng a very different narrative about what happened in 2016. >> what is a racially hinged voter id law. >> i love that question and thank you. it is where you have for instance,or alabama, alabama wih its voter id said he must have a government issued photo id. but coming your public housing id, does not count as government issued photo id and 71 percent of those in public i think, alabama, were african-american and the naacp failed was that for many, he was the only government issued photo id they had. in the governmentally shut down the department of motor vehicles and the black belt counties and

self when you are when the government issued photo id that you have, does not count, and the like okay, so give them a drivers license one in the drivers license year olds or should have you feel 50 miles to go get a drivers license but if you don't have a drivers license, how you got a 50 miles basically 100-mile round trip. in public transportation is ranked 40th in alabama's ranked 40th in terms of public transportation so as not like you can just hop on some public transportation ago the 50 miles on this on toop me by racially discriminatory voter id law. >> let's take a look at "white rage" and michael brown and gallo is that wherere the book stems from iste that persinger o anyways, i was in this project which was teaching faculty how to write for public audience and

workshop later date tv on in the news is just wearing and it didn't matter which channel that i was watching, because ferguson, missouri was on fire. independence ross and welcome aw look at this black rate burns up with a live, the black folks burning where they live andac yu believe all of this black rage. and it didn't which channel i had oncoming was the same narrative i lived in missouri for like 13 years. i found myself shaking my head going, no no no, this is not black rage, this is white rage that is where i came up with as a nation we are so focusing on the flames we miss the kindling. ms. the policies are in place then generate that explosion we must whatpl we do with educatio,

we must always do with housing and we miss what we do with criminal justice system and we miss whatt we do with the votig rights we miss all those fundamental basic of life in america in the policies of systematically undermined them and then turn around and say look at the folks burning up with a live without looking at the white rage underneath it. >> and this is a quote from "white rage", "white rage" is not about visible violence, but rather it works its way through the quarks and legislatures, and rigid governmentle for white ra, inevitably is black advancement. >> yes, yes and this will is what being a a historian allowed me to do for me was to see the patterns and see the civil war when you have emancipation, this should have been - but instead,

the massive backlash happened in the black codes try to resolve slavery by another name and then having under johnson, systematically undermined with the civil war should've been about then having u.s. supreme court got the 13th, working and 15 commitment as well as the enforcement act on the force act which dealt with racial discrimination and segregation in public facilities as well as going after white domestic terrorism was it when you have these entities such as the president of the united states, these governors u.s. supreme court issuing these executive orders in the law that undermined that advancement of what freedom meant. that is "white rage" and i carried through to the great

migration through the m brown decision after the civil rights movement and through the election of barack obama. >> one of the things that you do with the brown decision is you talk about how it was not really fully implemented and you san antonioo for example. >> absolutely supportable we see there is in san antonio as you have this massive disparity three of the sense of equality coming up under the 14th amendment, is equal protection of theme law. so in a neighborhood in san antonio, it wasin overwhelmingly mexican-american and african-american and they were taxing themselves as the highest level allowed the still only able to generate a few dollars like $21 per head per student per capita where as the edgewood districtwo which was a wealthy white suburb of san antonio, basically tax themselves at a much lower rate but because of

property values, they were able to generate so much more hundreds of dollars per capita and so the parents and the mexican-american parents, this is fundamentally an equally protecting ourselves of the highest rate because of public policy, that has devalued our property, we cannot generate enough income tax dollars to adequately fund equality : look at that and saidren yes. equality does not require equal funding and so decorative disparity that you saw then and that we see no, was blessed on high by the u.s. supreme court. >> carol anderson from your most recent r book is "the second", recent guns in a fatally unequal america.

it's about 42 million african-americans in the state and according to recent statistics on 25 percent of them aree gun owners in this doubling the last ten or 20 years. >> yes and i'm not surprised. one of things that i look at in the second, was how access to guns, didn't a blackness drove the second amendment and so regardless of the legal status of african-americans, enslaved, freeee black and called dennison which was the peace between citizen and enslaved and emancipated, african-americans, jim crow, african-american and civil rights movement african-american, obama, african-american regardless of that kind of wiggle status, were we think the progress that we have made, the fear of black

people has created this crisis that we are looking at and it has driven the second amendment and so african-americans buying guns, when you begin to think about that terror that has rained down on this society, and use of the rise of the right wing militia during obama's presidency and you saw the rise of whitegu gun ownership during obama's presidency and we had trump. we saw the embrace of white nationalism and white o supremacist. and you saw, because of the technology, the kind of police violence during see on black folks and so you have african-americansou doing what they have consistently done which is to sayns that we have o sadefend ourselves in the sociey nobody is going to help us. >> was as a book you thought you would write an something that you had thought about for quite a while.

>> no actually, it really was the killing of castillo, the date, you know my body of work deals with human rights and civil rights within african-american and with castille when he was gunned down,ce by a police officer because casteel had a license to carry weapon that was why he was gunned down. an nra and the national rifle association went virtually silent i was going man summa because he had gotten so you had penance asking them, african-americans have secondment rights and went oh, that is a great question and that is a question that i have not yet and so on hunting and i went back to the 17th century. >> what you find.

>> i found this incredible fear of the enslaved in the free blocks and laws coming through tryws to deal with the fear and try to protect the white communities from the enslaved and from free blocks and a key element in that was disarm a mentor was the banning of access to guns and so you saw that lois coming out of virginia and south carolina where thou shalt not have guns that of for those who were enslaved and for free blocks and he saw this coming through in the constitutional ratification conventions where you get to virginia and virginia is like, not really sure about his constitution thing and virginia was also sure about it one of the key elements that you

had patrick henry and george mason, saying you know, this militia that we need in order to keep he has k laid in chuck, jas medicine has put control of the federal government and under congress and so we cannot rely on the feds to defend us with the enslaved rise up editing, because a federal like in pennsylvania and massachusetts they're not going to be coming down here to defend us and so we need to have the protection or we will be left defenseless. the basically threatened to scuttle ratification but that did not work and then they threatened to hold a new constitutional convention in madison was scared out of us the diverse, that is the scholarly term because the articles of confederation had not worked and so pickup pushed through this

new constitution we give the federal government enhance power when there was a fear the federal government was tooov powerful. and this is why we have in the first congress, the bill of rights, when you think about that bill of rights, freedom of religion, the right not to be illegally searched ando seized and speedy and fair trial of the right not have cruel and unusual judgment. right to a well regulated militia with the security of a free state. >> what. >> and that was an outlier and that outlier, is basically the bribe to the south to not hold eight new constitutional convention and it is to say that you are protected the militia is safe. >> were you surprised which amount about the second

amendment. really was because so much of our discussions today about the second amendment is about the individual right to bear arms part was is really about a militia and yes that we get this pioneering going on and diit's all about individual rigs coming out of the supreme court decision in the mcdonald's decision. or is this about the militia which is had courts have long held that this was really about militia that argument, the binary argument is irrelevant. it is irrelevant because the foundation of the second amendment is the fear of blackness and the fear of black people in defining african-americans as criminal as a threat and his dangerousness violent and white community has to be protected and wow, wow and that is why things then begin to

make sense and sound really weird way and you know susan walked through this book i even take a step into the 20th and 20 for sensory and i'm singing the ways we understand citizenship through gun rights. unable to defend your home against an invader. in a just point. [laughter] those kinds of doctor renna, the become foundational rated stand your ground, those kinds of documents that become foundational when applied to african-americans probably doubled and went wow. wow, so i had examples in their like rice in an open carry states, 12 -year-old boy playing in a park by himself in

cleveland them with a tour guide printed you do not have a little red tape on it as i am into a bit ohio is nothing your estate is that as long as you're not threatening anyone you can carry weapon, openly. police reluctant within two seconds they shot him down. he was dangerous, he was a threat and then i just supposed, to kyle rittenhouse, we have a 17 -year-old has ar 15, he strolls by the police officers in kenosha, wisconsin, with the black lives matters protest in a are so glad that you guys are here and you want water, hit is hot out here anything shoots three people. two of them he killed, he walked back toward the police officers with his hands up and they don't

see threats, they don't see danger, they are not afraid. that speaks volumes about the s second amendment. >> carol anderson were you in any way shape or form a gun person prior to writing your most recent book. >> gun person, no, no it was not like i was provide or anti-gun, i was just here and it was like a said it was this discussion aboutla castillo there really st me down this path really trying to find do the african-americans have second amendment rights only long hard word but generally been one to save we need to be reasonable about the guns and so the semi automatic

weapon being readily available to civilians, things no sense to me, none coming cannot hunt with an ar 15 and either dear afterwards, come on just the kind of logic ar 15's report hunting people, and so the basic logic and there have been there and basic logic to apple welcome back to the book to be enough studio and this is the first time and to have years that we have been back with yes and studio so pleased that it is emory university professor and author carol anderson you've been hearing some of the talk it under topics we be talking about in your participation is gave on book tv and here is how you can get through, here are the phone numbers and if you live in the east central time zone, 2-027-488-2000 and if you live in the mouth and the pacific time some, (202)748-8201, and if

you can't get through the phone are you wouldh like to make a comment, via text, and here's a text number text messages only, please include your first name and your city if you would come up (202)748-8903. and i will also scroll through social media site, twitter, facebook and just remember, at book tv you would like to make a comment on any of the site as well we begin taking notes in just a few minutes and carol anderson, how long have you been it emory university. >> in 2009 from the university of missouri work i was there for 13 years what did you transplant yourself to georgia. >> emory is an amazing university and is an opportunity to really grow and thrive.

andan divina place surrounded by scholars who were asking me, really tough part questions. in seeking the answers. and then there is atlanta. which is an amazing city so yes. >> missouri, columbia, missouri, atlanta, what did you start. >> i started life encompass ohio, and actually that's inaccurate, my father was in the military and so i was more on army base and we lived in germany for several years and many retired from the military after 20 plus years, he then moved to columbus ohio, because he wanted my brother to go to ohio state and so that is where i did a lot of my growing up in columbus, ohio. >> and where did you go to school. >> noticeable my undergrad in my

masters are at miami university in oxford ohio, my phd is from the ohio state university. >> and why did you decide to become a a scholar. >> would appeal to you about getting a phd. >> i love learning, there were always books in our home, always books and always discussions in the house but what was happening in the world and about politics and about civil rights and injustice it was me try to figure this thing out. and i had wonderful mentors along the way the really helped me figure out how to become a scholar. there was ellen ingle, professor alan ingle, professor at miami. i know this is going to be hard to believe but we were going over some case and i popped off

and he said ms. carol anderson, may i see you after class and i'm going, gosh, i'm going to get thrown out of this class is a five hour credit class and going to lose full-time status and just rolling through my head and walked up to him after class i said yes professor and he said have you ever thought about going to graduate school as it yes but i have no idea how to get there any like will come with me pretty and having mentors like that that helps upper me through can be very opaque process was instrumental. i was that natural love of learning and it was one of those kids who would read the book of encyclopedia from a to z and read it allll over again just in case i missed something. >> when you teach emory. >> i teach civil: rights movemet and teach 20 century

african-american history to teachh or crimes and genocide ad teach american human rights policy. i teach the black athlete in american society. at one point i also taught u.s. cold war foreign policy. >> let's go back to your home state of georgia coming of god a black athlete running for senate down there. >> yes we do. yes we do and so what we really have is deployment of representation that is not representative and it was the same way that the republicans kept alan keyes, the running is that obama thinking here's a muddy black and that other do it and it was the same thing with herschel walker, the football star of the university of georgia, wow, let's put them up

against raffaellala warnock. and what we are seeing is someone who has a history of violence, and someone who consistently lies about his credentials and someone was not thought through policy and so to have someone so the reason that he is there is because he is black, not because that he can do that heavy lifting have being a u.s. senator. it was a cynical ploy. and so the answer that he gave after the killings in texas, where he said, so how would you have handled theu issue of guns and he said, will gain slew abel in any got this disinformation and some of what we need to have is a department where you have

department that looks at theoo young men looking at young women on social media. because of the constitutional rights. >> ... their, then he stung them together. i know i need to say something about the bible, i know i need to say something about social media, i know i need to say something about constitutional rights and say something about constitutional rights and disinformation. and that is will be got but that was not policy, that was nottf thoughtful. it was in i fact insulting to think about black folks are going tous run that way. simply because he is black. that is not enough. have you ever been in ebenezer when pastor warnock is preaching? >> no i haven't, no i haven't. >> it hard to get in at that point do you think?ng on a sunday morning into ebenezer? can anyone come in?

>> guest: anyone can come in i'm sure. it is a his historic church. it is like a bedrock foundational to the history of black atlantak into the history of the civil rights movement. it is where reverend doctor trayvon martinti luther king preached. it is where daddy kain was. it is ebenezer. it is ebenezer. you want a lot of news reports indicated the 2022 georgia primary election after the made changes to the voting laws went very smoothly and there's good turnout. >> i am going to liken that. how suppressive can this people may have this great turnout? what it doesn't look at the narrative doesn't look at us all the mobilization of civil society.

all of the work of the new georgia project. all of the work of the black vote somatic fund. all of thewo work of the naacp. all the work a of the lgf and te aclu and galileo, and asian americans advancing justice. all of those groups trying to move folks through, under, beyond, over. the barriers that the georgia legislature set in place. and so i liken it to somebody tries to rob you. they do not succeed. you are able to fend them off their group of folks able to fend them off. does the fact they were able to be successful wash away the fact they tried to rob you? no. because they tried. but you had a group of folks who helped you fend off that person

that was mugging you. and so when you look at sb 202 it is a mugging of georgia voters. it is predicated on the big lie the trophy and a big lie of omassive voter fraud that no oe can prove because it did notot happen. and it is predicated on how do we stop these folks? we had an incredible turnout in the 2020 election. and in the 2021 at runoff. in the 2021 senatorial runoff, black voter turnout was almost 92%. when you're in a democracyth that's multiracial multi- religious you embrace that kind of turnout. gwe did something right. how do we continue on with this? unless you're going for a hair invoked democracy and you are

like how do we stop this? >> host: professor anderson last question before we get to callsh and all of your books the subject of human rights plays a role. it does not permeate necessarily but you bring it up and you weave it in, why is that? >> human rights are so foundational for me. it was my first book up it is dissertation became my first book eyes off the prize. and i asked the question how could all of the blood, all of the courage, all of the effort by civil rights folks lead to an america where the life expectancy of african-americans have declined. were we are having a massive disparities instant and maternal mortalityit rates. were you are having massive

wealth gaps that shapes the kinds of ways people commit their society. how could the civil rights movement that is one of the things we herald, we look at this going we have overcome. look, this is the unfinished democracy handling that business. how could all of that had still left the america that we are in? and what myd research showed ws that we have a civil rights movement not a human rights movement. how did that happen? malcolm x then, how does a black man going to give his civil rights before he gets his human rights? but what i found is you had the naacp and wpb saying the same thing, a generation earlier.

so what could create that level of communityat amnesia? as if malcolm was the first one to say it. that is where i found the power of the cold war and the power of anti- communism in the mccarthy witch hunt. that defined human rights, the right to healthcare. the right to education. the right to housing. those are the things the soviets want. y if you are a real patriot you do not want that. and how those witchhunts were systematically just targeting african americans and african-american organizations that was vying for the human rights platform. to the point where it became politically safer to argue on a platform of civil rights. seyfert does not mean safe. we know the violence that rained down on folk. the fighting for civil rights. it became politically safer to

be able to argue on a civil rights platform. all we want is what is in the bill of rights. what could be more american than the bill of rights? then talk about wanting the right to housing. the right to healthcare. the right to employment. the right to leisure. looking at the universal declaration of human rights. the un has also been cast as a communistic organization by the right wing in american politics. so might work really deals with those kind of truncated rights and the residuals of what that looks like as we live through this america. sue and i promise as a last question before go to calls. a couple more came to mind. we will hear from leo in the bronx. leo you are on with author and professor carol anderson.

>> ms. anderson i enjoyed seeing your lectures on c-span when you speak to college students. my question is, stacey abrams changed her position. she used to be against the idea of acquiring people when they vote to present i'd d. i heard recently she changed her position. could you check explain why? >> guest: thank you for that question. part of what you are seeing has been basically the work of the sense that voter ids are reasonable. voter ids are everybody has an id. and we have voter fraud. voter fraud. voter fraud. and to show an id in order to protect democracy in order to protect elections. bait looked at polls and

something like 70% of americans believe that voter fraud happens on a regular basis or something like that. and 50% believe it happened regularly. and so coming up against that tide, it allows for the discussion about we have got to get laws that protect our voting rights. when that show it runs up against is voter id, then you have got most americans believing voter ids are fine. because again it plays to a middle-class norm. in the racial discrimination that is inherent in the way the states have deployed voterer id. it felt like a battle, a battle too far. >> host: cornelius, alexandria louisiana. good afternoon to you. >> good afternoon c-span and happy and blessed coming up for

the fourth of july. mr. carol anderson i'm really enjoying you and stuff. i see our history professor i was telling the call screener i african-american as a democrat for a long time but he joined the republican party because of some different things the democrats wereif doing. my parents were kennedy democrats but they were republicans first because the republican party helped out african-americans and stuff. and my question for you, i believe in god's, guns and gold, bibles and beings. our constitution a look at ben franklin he said this was a representative of the republic it is not a democracy. so we are supposed to be a representative republic or constitutional republic. i agree with you on racism. but when casteel got murdered that cop never should've done

that. the nra should have said something. after the civil war the nra was trying to teach blacks to have gun ownership to protect themselves with the democrats had the clan and stuff. iw don't know if you know the history of the democratic party the klan was a military wing of the democratic party. they were the ones that came up with the jim crow laws in all like that. trayvon martin luther king. >> host: cornelius, very quickly why are you a republican today? >> because the democrats have lied to us. they've always wanted to diff on the police for they do not want us town have guns. we are killing our own cells with these dang members and drug. a all of us need to be armed up, arm up america. >> host: cornelius, thank you very much professor has someone

reset point to a class? >> there couple of points there. one was what the democrats are and yes after the civil war they democrats where the party of white supremacy unabashed white supremacy. one of the things that's happened that was called the southern strategy. what the southern strategy did was as the democrats began to tilt the issue of civil rights for african americans because of the great migration because african-americans were moving out of the jim crow south is that you had the republicans going who there is gold in those hills of white resentment about civil rights. you see it being deployed in 48 pretty see it being deployed in 52. you see it being deployed and 6480 particularly seeing it be deployed withep richard nixon ad

68 and with ronald reagan and 80.de so if you wonder why we have this demographic shift it is because of the southern strategy the republicans brought in the sense of anti- civil rights as their mantra. and with the issue about guns that we are killing each other. one things we often hear about is black on black crime. that is the narrative of black pathology. yes, over 80% of black people are killed by black people. over 80% of white people are killed by white people. but we do not have the narrative of white on white crime. why is that? sometimes we have to ask the next question. and what you also have is you have washington d.c. and chicago

have implemented gun safety laws to try to deal with the homicide rates in those cities. you have the u.s. supreme court both diversity heller decision and then the mcdonaldis decision undermine the safety laws. and you suck flooding into those communities again. you have governor abbott talking about what about chicago? because that becomes the kind of trope of black violence that gets deployed consistently by republicans. >> host: text message from calvin in baltimore. good afternoon dr. anderson. how does the evangelical right play a part in fueling our divide in our society. presently and its influence in the scotus of the supreme court,

i.e. the federalist society. >> guest: the role of white evangelical christianity is powerful. it really became a force i want to say it in the 70s and really took hold in the 80s and has not let go. there is a wonderful book called lease alongil the southern strategy by todd shields and angie maxwell that looks at the three pillars of the long southern strategy. one of those is racism. another pillar is patriarchy. on the other is white evangelical christianity. on the role it plays in the domination is shaping those policies. we see this in the recent scotus decision. you have to have in maine

vouchers for secular schools. you have these white evangelical christian schools going hey we want to met public money two. yes you have to do this. it is where the recent decision where the coach was kneeling on the 50-yard line. and you had the supreme court ignoring the evidence that this is a public school. this was a public event on a public field. give the power of the coach around his players kneeling in a christian prayer. you have to ask yourself if maine happens at the school of satanic devotion, are they going to be eligible for public funds to? some part of what you see happening is this narrowing definition of what is religion. you had lauren talking about she so sick of hearing about the

separation of church and t stat. while that is the first amendment. treating it as if it is made up so much of what we are seeing in america is a missed history. made up history. used to justify policies that are absolutely abhorrent to this democracy. parks next call for professor anderson comes from pamela upper marlboro maryland here in the suburbs, hi pamela. >> hi and thank you for taking my call. it is an honor to speak with you. i have been married 36 years, african-american round of two african-american sons and husband. i would like to know can you speak it's been alluded to already, can you speak to the id issue and the ideology that we are still fighting the confederacy and its ideology through theat states rights that

have from andrew johnson who is the president after lincoln's assassination, who is a staunch states rights supporter and that restoration of the confederate states for their civil government to be back in power. as a result during that time black codes were passed the free former slaves of the rights and liberty were guaranteed by the federal government. for example they never got there at 40 acres and as a matter fact the former slave owners were given money for every slave that was made free paid something like $300 or something to that effect. but anyway, how all of this is still going on is the undercurrent today that we face in the 60s there was a flip. like you said the republicans begin to embrace the states rights, ideology the former democrats they were now

embracing the rights of the federal government to protect african-americans and others. in essence we are still fighting this confederacy and the ideology. it just changed forms. >> pamela, before we get an answer can you tell us a little bit about yourself? you live in a very nice community. one of the wealthiest majority black communities in america. have you faced some of the issues that you talk about? >> i'm a public servant i'm a state employee. i work for young ladies on medical assistance. and the undocumented who do not have healthcare. and we provide healthcare and make sure they have access. so they can have healthy babies but i am a public servant. and i believe in giving back. i was raised by my maternal grandmother i lost my mom who happened to be a nurse and a very young age pete i just believe in giving back. i just see what we are dealing

with. this is stuff i read about. i might rights are being assaulted my family came from alabama. they were born and raised in alabama to see what we have to go through my father was born and raised in georgia. to see but we have to face here in 2022 is just mind-boggling. they went thank you. professor anderson? >> absolutely. i'm one of the things -- i was giving a talk in virginia. and i said oh one other things things might look in germany, germany had a the nazi vacation program. we never had a deacon federalization program. we never looked at the confederacy and dismantled it, and its entirety. instead what we had was erecting statues to it, to its leaders. robert e lee, jefferson davis.

we started in our textbooks because the united daughters of the confederacy. the lost cause becomes his heroic event. but we begin to think about what that means for our children learn, what they understand so that slavery really was not that bad. you had benevolent, kind owners. the enslaved are fed well prayer they were closed, they had a housing. what could be so bad? had this big mean nasty north coming down and trying to impose its will on his good honest blhard-working folk. until like the 1970s. and think about the battles we have had recently.

taking down his confederate monuments in these public spaces. because what that is telling us is that this is who we should be honoring. and so we have these tectonic plates underneath american society that basically says the confederacy is good slavery really was not that bad. e i think about bill o'reilly after michelle obama talked about living in a house built by the enslaved and on his show he said it really wasn't that bad. they were housed, they were well clothes, they were well fed so how bad could it be? when you get that coming in, and the 21st century that is the thing we have not dealt with. we have not dealt with slavery.

when you look at how these states are demanding of a vision of the curriculum so that it doesn't make white students feel uncomfortable. but it does not cause a kind of sense of being ill at ease. so we do not talk about slavery. and i saw were in they are thinking about renaming slavery involuntary relocation. when you can create these euphemisms to cover the horrors of what this nation has been through. you don't deal with the reality of a slavery. you do not deal with the reality of genocidal violence against indigenous people. you do not deal with the reality of xenophobia in our anti- immigrant policies. you don't deal with the reality of the japanese. when you do not deal with any of those realities you don't

understand america. and frankly you do a disservice to america. because america is an aspirational nation. we hold these truths to bee self-evident. so having those vertex folks fight to make this truth self-evident is a key piece of history. when you remove that and treat those aspirations as if they had already been achieved, that is what allows for the embrace of the confederacy. and the whitening up of slavery, of whitewash move slowly for you. i remember i got a notice from an organization that i had been supporting. that said come visit our beautiful plantations in mississippi. come see through southern charm.

and i thought what kindho of mes is this? and i sent them a note back and i said no more than you and harold awo tour of also which ia testament to find german engineering, you should look at these plantations and anything than what they are, a place where human beings were bred, or born, or beaten, or worked were tortured. these slave labor camps, when you try to pretty it up you defile american history. and so part of what we are looking at is the defiling of american history by not dealing with the confederacy and how it is able to maintain its power

through the southern democrats. enough of thepu republicans. >> should those plantations be maintained as historic sites? >> yes they should. and they should beat maintain as historic sites the same way i'll switch is maintained as a historic site. you need to have accurate history laying out what really happened there. you know there is one of those battles and annette gordongo red to really talk about this, the battles over monticello. thomas jefferson's place where he was one of the founding fathers. oh my gosh she was brilliant, he was wonderful. so where were sallyas hemmings? that narrative, that history is essential for understanding the battles that we have in america. we hold these truths to be

self-evident. got to protect slavery. we are the leader of the freeow world. we are the jim crow leader of the freee world. that kind of dichotomy is absolutely essential for understanding this nation. >> next call for carol anderson came from nay and mesa, arizona hi nay. thirty-three hi. this is a wonderful show. ms. anderson, i never watch c-span i happened to turn the tv on. and i just got intrigued. i live in messe, arizona. i'd return to school when i was 47 and got a degree in entrepreneurship. but to go into the class i had to write in english paper to get elected into the university.

i basically picked a topic of the disproportionate of the african-american mail. at the ages of 18 and 35. and so i called the paper bound by law. and as i was listening to you, you are a teacher, you are a professor of a masters program at emmerich? is that correct? >> yes i am a professor at emory university in the department of african-american studies. and i have history doctoral students. and a chair. >> my grandfather was a historian. so iia was thinking i wanted to get my masters but i wasn't sure what i wanted too do.

and then i turned your show on and heard you talking bird that is my question for those who might've the sameho question. i can't go to emory does it offer any online programs? can we take your classes? >> guest: none of my classes are online. we went to online classes for the kind of protection of our students and the faculty. but we are now back in the classroom. >> host: carol anderson would always ask authors with her favorite books are or what they are currently reading. i want to know what you said about currently reading. usually we get specific titles. but this quote from an e-mail, a brazilian. i'm a judge in the nonfictional category for the national book award. some of your books have melissa

for that as well part. >> yes. they're coming in on going throughro them. if entering is the authors wrestle with different types of subjects across the board. do what is your first time been a judge? >> guest: i was a judge last year for the pulitzer. this is the first and for the national book award. skillet how many books we have to read before the ceremony in november? >> we get in between 60700 books, a brazilian. [laughter] and just plowing through them to really make sure were making really goodd choices. >> host: favorite books professor carol anderson.

on thomas mann's it's even worse than it looks, steve larson the girl who kicked the hornet's nest, john dower, or without mercy. anna william and gerety and kristin mullen from here to equality. which of those five books you want to speak to? >> guest: somewhere between jasmine warren and steve larson. the girl who kicked the hornets nest. i know that might sound like a really odd choice. this is a book based in sweden. >> host: but it's fiction. >> guest: it is fiction. every reddit five maybe six times. i love that book. it speaks to my sense of justice. it speaks to my sense of you can

take on and when were to be is going to be tough on the story deals with a young woman who was brutalized by her father but her father was basically a secret agent for the government. they let them get away with the violence against their family. she has had enough. this is the first book the girl with the dragon tattoo. she had had enough. and she sets him on fire. they commit her to an insane asylum. and then she has a award who abuses her. not a word, a trustee who abuses her. and you see this story

unraveling where she is getting at the heart and a soul of a corrupt government. one that defies the constitution. one that had setet itself up outside the government to be more important than the representative government that was there. and she takes them on. she has an incredible journalist he was helping her. she has an attorney who sees how the law can be deployed to help her. and she has incredible computer skills to help herself. that combination. that book speaks to me. because againis it is about justice. it is about what is right. it is about righting a wrong it is about holding folks accountable who abuse the trust in government. who abuse the trust of the peoplele. skillet we have about an hour

left with our guest author carol anderson. we'll put the phoneum numbers up on the screen if you like to dial in 202's area code 748-8200 if you live in east and central time i zone for (202)748-8201 fr those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. and if you want to send a text message instead (202)748-8903. please include your first name and your city if you would. we also have some social media sites that will scroll through in case you want to make a comment that way. louisville, kentucky hi. >> caller: good afternoon dr. anderson and host, i forgot your name. i admit african cultural scholar, 71 years old. and i have been listening to this show. i blocked it out early this week that dr. anderson was going to be out and i wanted to speak to her. dr. anderson as i look at your

second book and forgive me i don't know how i don't know more or better of you you are outstanding. something that's happening and now iin want you to address. maybe it was friday, four police officers were killed anything goes eastern kentucky. it also a few days before that a young african-american man was stopped by police he was not comfortable with them and he fled. he ended up getting 98 shots fired at him. six he entered his body. hunters speak to how can you under the second amount we all have the right to bear arms. but when an african-american person hasaf a gun and even in

kentucky thinking about getting me a holster and a gun and carrying it openly. you'll have gun control in the sea african americans in mass walking up hips. to address is the whole dynamic scum how they capture without a scratch they take it to burger king. but on the flipside you're talking about is still an african-americaner man doing everything lawfully with the weapon and soon his weapon gets entered into the discussion with the white police officer and they gun him down. they just gunned this young boy down shot him 60 times. you are fantastic. thanks. >> host: thank you. >> guest: this is what i'm here.g about

with the book, the second period you look at a mirror at locke who was a young man up in minneapolis who was in his apartment and the police and burst through and basically a no knock warrant.nt he has a gun by him as he is asleep on the couch. they see the gun they say threat , and they shoot him dead within ten seconds. said that doctrine, this is what breonna taylor supposedly had and now she is dead. this is what catherine johnson in atlanta supposedly had and now she is dead. the h ability to protect your he from an invasion, no. and then yes, jayland walker. i am reading through that story and the last time i read someone gunned it down in a hail of 60 bullets was the quadruple lynching in 1946 in monroe,

georgia. where two men and two went to black women and two black men are basically executed in a hail of bullets. sixty bullets in each of their bodies. the kind of fear that has to generate to create that depth of violence against that young man. the guy who shot up the movie theater in aurora, colorado. he was taken alive in the parking lot. i think 12 dead? seventy wounded, something to that effect. and dillon roof guns down nine folk in church during bible study. and he is taken alive.

white is not the threats. black is the default threat in american society. armed black is an exponential threat. this is white during the late 1960s in california he saw the passage of what was called the mulford act. that is because the black panthers were openly carrying armed to police the police. because the police were raining down of violence on that black community. there was no public entity willing to do a doggone thing about it.e so the black panthers said we will police the policen it. they knew the laws about open carry for they knew the laws about what kind of guns they could have. they knew the laws about how far they had to stand away from the police. the police hated it from the depths in the breaths and the height their soul shall reach they hateded it. until they ran to don who was a

conservative and assembly met in the california legislature and said you have got to help us. you've got to find a way to make but they are doing illegal. erbecause every time we pull thm over we cannot arrest them they are not doing anything illegal. until mulford writes the law with the help of the nra and eagerly ronald reagan to ban the kind of open carry the black panthers were doing this you do not even have to come up with a hypothetical that black folks are caring gun you're going to see some gun regulations happening here. we've got a history of that. stu went denise, jacksonville, florida good afternoon. >> good afternoon. i love c-span. and when i found out dr. anderson was going to be on the show, i set my tv up so i can watch it.an i just want to thank ms. anderson for the books that she has written.

i did not realize that i did not know much about black history in america and so irt started readg your book white rage. i was just shocked. and i thank you so much. i'm going to buy the other three books that you have out there. because i had decided i wanted to invest in myself to learn critical race theory after 2019 a black lives matter movement went on. and i didn't realize how much i didn't know. i want to thank you for that. stu went denise, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? >> well, yes. i will be 55 this year. i live in jacksonville, florida. i became interested in politics when i started learning corporate finance at the university for my undergraduate degree. but when i start looking at

politics he and seeing all the different things that were going on and could not relate to it or could not give an educated conversation with it that is when i started investing in myself to learn these things. but i was just shocked. i never knew about a black coat. after the emancipation of the slaves. i didn't know about -- i didn't know myself someone else brought it to my mgh attention about rot florida in 1901 i believe tuscaloosa, oklahoma. and i always say white people say black people were terrorist but where did they learn from? every time it seemed like black people would be successful, white people will get envious and jealous and try to destroy them. and now a lot of things it did not make sense to me, they make sense now when i go to work act in certain ways or if you could advance on a job regardless of your education and experience.

now it makes sense to t me. thank you will leave it there, professor? >> this is why i write these books. my first two books were academic books, eyes off the price and bourgeois radicals. they were both for an academic audience but my writing style is very accessible. and so it translated really well into being able to provide these rich histories, well documented rich histories for afo broader public becauseta there's so much we are not taught in schools. we are seeing that push again. so in florida there is the push not to have the kinds of history that can talk about rosewood, they can talk about florida in 1920 where you basically had ethnic cleansing because a black folks dared try to vote. and whites and burn down the black part of town, ran a black

folks out of there. and for the next five decades there were no black people and coley, florida. we do not know that history. if we are not taught if it is not made readily available to us. so that is why i do this work. because they really believe once we knowai our history we are having a very different conversation about where we are as a nation and what we need to do. still when you mention bourgeois radical was a scholarly book more than an inaccessible book a pretty want to read a quote from there and have you explain it if you would. >> i sure will. >> the semantic rabbit hole that made the naacp of standard bearer for imperialism and the soviet union synonymous with anticolonialism, increase the way into a wonderland where the association disappeared like a cheshire cat from the histories of colonial liberation. >> yes. [laughter] >> quite a sentence.

congratulations onui that. >> thank you, thank you. [laughter] so what i was dealing with their was that since 1971 in this book came out in like01 2015 or so, since 192014? since 1971, the histories that have been written about decolonization struggles the role of african-americans in these decolonization struggles, the dismantling of these empires in africa and in asia they have all champion the left, the role of the black left the role of the left itself and treated the naacp as basically water boys for truman and in imperialism and colonialism and basically said the naacp turned its black in 1947 with the rise of the cold war. turned its back on the struggles and basically left it to the left. when i was finishing up eyes off

the prize, they said one less sweep through the archives, there could be that document that blows your whole book apart. so you just want to make sure. i'm going to the archives of naacp papers, and i find this letter in 1949, two years after the naacp turned its back and said thank you so much for all of your help in that un and keeping the italians off of us. i went what is this? excuse me? and you know you have hit something and that became the foundation for bourgeois radicals. i said i'm going to go wherever the naacp went in the lord did they go. they took on the south africa. took on the dutch in indonesia. they took on the italians for somalia, libya and eritrea.

they are taking on these struggles and i figured out that what they were doing was dismantlingnt the norms that mae colonialism and imperialism acceptable. so they took on the white man's burden for the european powers walk into meeting sync my empire is so big my empire is bigger than your empire and everybody's like i want to have the empire. they made being an imperial power not a badge of honor but a scarlet letter. and so watching how the naacp was instrumental in reshaping the norms of colonial empires of imperialism. and again when we only have a narrative about the power of the left in doing this work we do not understand how change iss made. and i wanted to be able to excavate that narrative. because having the soviets as the avatar of all this good,

just, right in the world, no, no. there is just a longer history there. and i wanted to make sure that was clear. having the naacp denigrated as a toady, that is not what the historical record shows. >> host: teaching, writing books, you also do public speaking as well. you get invited quite a few places, correct? >> yes, i do. so he went at what point is every thing too much? >> you got a documentary coming out soon. [laughter] that is a great question that i am asking myself. but there is just so much work to do. like i said, when we started this conversation on this democracy is in trouble. it is under a full-blown

assault. and to just go lord i am tired just does not sit with my sense of justice. it does not sit with my sense of the girl who kicked the hornets nest. it does not sit with my sense of right and wrong. and knowing, and knowing that the vision the right has for this nation is a vision that will send us hurtling back to a place where we may never recover. we have got to tfi fight. >> keith, middletown, connecticut. you are on book tv with author carol anderson. >> hi, thank you for taking my call. i enjoy listening to dr. anderson whenever i've had a chance to hear her speak on c-span. and like many of your previous collars i was very happy when it learns she's going to be on your

in-depth show today. i wanted to make a couple of comments and get doctor anderson's thoughts about them. regarding gun rights versus a voting rights. and if i am not mistaken i believe there are four constitutional amendments that deal with voting rights. and it seems like we have numerous estates trying to put up barriers and make it more difficult for people to vote. and yet t only talk about the second amendment and people's rights to keep and bear arms, people are aghast when anyone tries to put any type of regulation or any requirements in just within the past week or two i think it was very sad when the suprememe court i think ruls against the new york law that required people to show a cause for carrying a weapon outside of a home. so to me it seems like a bit of

hypocrisy we can put any type of regulation on the second amendment and people's rights to carry weapons. yet it seems we have tons that are trying to restrict people's rights to vote. sue and keith i think we've gott your thoughts thank you sir. >> thank you for. that. in fact they had a student writr a paper on that very dichotomy. and so one of the things that you see here is big because the 15th amendment and the 19th amendments, and the amendment that bans the poll tax and the amendment that lowers the voting age to 18 all of those have been under assault. absolute assault. we see that for instance in the ways that you have states removing for instance polling

places off of w college campuse. the way in north carolina where they divided one university between two congressional districts as a way to dilute the voting power of the hbcus north carolina amt. lower, fewer early voting days for prayer review. then they had with surrounding accounting. we see this consistently. see this in terms of the banning of the poll tax where you had that re- enfranchised those who had felony convictions. courts rule after the state legislature came through and said they were scared about that coming through after one the state wrote in line saying okay, then you have

to pay all fines, fees, and restitution in order for your sentence to be complete. the federal courts ruled that is not a poll tax except i don't have to pay my income tax to vote. i do not have to pay my property tax to vote but here's a payment that i have to make in order to be able to vote. but even worse they added the horrors of the literacy test in the previous literally test the questions were things like how many bubbles in a bar of soap? how high is up? here the court ruled that florida does not have to tell folks how much they owe. so florida can require that you make payments they don't have to tell you how much that paymente. has to be. >> host: text message hi dr. anderson my name is pastor ellie brown. from springfield, missouri. my question is, what would you

believe is the most important message that ministers should speak to in our world today? >> that must come i that question for that message i'm i hearing from reverend barber that this is a god and a jesus of all of us. that we are here to help all of us. that we have to heal the sick. we have to feed the hungry. we have to clothe the un- shod. we have to do that work. that there is a greater humanity at stake here. when we in fact use -- one of the things i say that question we earlier received about the role of white evangelical christianity is this is where i talk about folks putting their hands on god and using the power

of god to put forth their own agenda instead of letting god put hands on them and then moving in that way for a better world. for a safer, a kinder, and much more humane world. that i think is t the most powerful message. and getting your folks out there registered to vote and getting them to the polls. that political realm is so important in terms of being able to create a much kinder, gentler, america. we went next call is live from las vegas. thank you for holding you are on with author carol anderson. >> you guys are knocking me out. i have loved everything i have heard and it is just amazing. thank you for taking my call. i grew up in los angeles, a

group with kids who had never heard of john franklin. my earliest memory was the mccarthy hearings but i didn't know what they were but heard my grandfather my father crying. because of what joe walsh was saying. then i remember my mother going nutsts when louis armstrong cald out ike and said you have got to do something sent in the airborne. i am old and i am still hearing the same stories and the same battles like the guy she was beating his head against the whaling ball - in israel a space on the middle east and i'm praying for telling people to get along.

there are 17 different religions and the guy says how do you feel? i feel i can beating my head against the wall. and now it's 60 years later. nothing has really changed except awareness and knowledge and people knowing about books. right now i'm reading again one of james baldwin's books which is the devil fines work. which takes him back to the 30s and looking at betty davis eyes and seeing himself because he had popeyes to and we still judge people by their looks, how beautiful they are or how ugly they are. thand yet we still have this otr thing going. when i was ten or 11. >> host: were going to leave it there and see professor anderson's would have anything that.ke to add to >> part of what oppression and

part of what voter suppression is designed to do is make you think that there is no hope. that it is always going to be this. it's always been this, it's never going to get any better why bother to beat my head up against the wall? the thing is, the reason why we are still in the struggle is because we arere still fighting. were still fighting an oppressive force and because we refused to give up. we refused to accept our subjugation. and that is so important. weed reviewed two seed our powe. because it is in that fight. it is in that struggle where we continue to move forward. more we continue to be able to create the knowledge. but we continue to be able to protect our communities. when we don't struggle when we

think this stuff is just messed upal, than all of our protectios are dissolved. that is why we fight. that is why we have to know what the game is. >> host: text message please ask dr. anderson if she is familiar with the work of professor john let who was taught at yale law school and his book more guns less crime. >> i am vaguely familiar with john lott. john lott is one of the heroes of the kind of second amendment school ofht individual rights, guns, guns everywhere kind of deal, of being against gun safety regulations. and as i had mentioned earlier, i have not been pro-gun, anti- gun. but what i have been is for reasonable gun safety laws such

as there is no reason to have semi automatic weapons in the hands of civilians on our city streets. that just does not make any sense. it's a about it and not doctrinaire. they went david, in tennessee, text message. i agree with what i believe is your critique of her racist and violent society. we have create a collateral parasitic layer of wellat compensated commentators and helpers, many of them ensconced in universities a critical foundation of the system who appeared to be neutralized in sub suit efficiently by the dominant culture, comment? >> okay, i thought i knew her that was headed and then it veered in another way. i think part of what you are laying out here is that there

are scholars who feed on the kind of deals in society. when provided cover for that. this is why having freedom within the university the freedom of exchange of ideas within the university are so important. because what that does is whend you have evidence-based scholarships you are allowing the evidence-based scholarship to do the heavy lifting of democracy. and you are able to discern the difference between that evidence-based scholarship and the ideologues. >> host: what you think about some reports that academia has been overtaken by the left?

[laughter] see what i guess you don't agree with those reports? >> guest: oh lord. [laughter] also partners that they that is designed to denigrate the incredible work coming out of these colleges and universities in terms of that scholarship. because if you couldn't do him a group that scholarship are able to create a new truth renewedtr it's not fact-based or evidence-based. and we see that happening a lot. so i have got when you talk to black scholars who were in the academy, they are not seeing this incredible laughter that has taken over. they are looking at the kind of entrenchment, power and working through that in order to do this work. >> host: next call for doctor carol anderson's comes from

carol in greens, pennsylvania hi carol. >> hello. i have a question has there been any research done to compare the laws have changed so significantly over the years for the disabled, i worked as a vision therapist for years. but it also ran a program from 58 until 68 that was 49% black and 51% white. i saw a lot of positive things to say about the black community and the local black author has convinced me i should write a book and i am not a writer. i was looking for research that can prove laws can change people's lives. and i don't think there has beee

anything done in comparison between race and the disabled that i could find. and i am very interested in your opinion on that. stuart and carol, i apologize, we aree going to leave it at tht first question. there is a lot there and we will see if dr. anderson has a response for, thank you for calling in. >> the role of disability laws and disability policies are absolute essential. it is one of the key movements forward that made this nation much more humane. and so it seeing the way race works in those disability policies is also essential. there is some work done i've seen somese of it. i cannot recall the names off the top of my head right now. but basically doing a library search like a world cup search, a search on your local library,

finding the books that are there and if you have access to a university library that can get you what are called jstor. anyou can see the articles that have been created and produced during this work. that will give you the kind of foundation that you need to see what is out there and where your intervention would be reallyld important. >> host: when needed, cincinnati good afternoon. >> hi how are you. this is i used to be a librarian, what she could also try as the local vibrate. [inaudible] could help you with that. and also national library of medicine in maryland. but the reason i called is because i like dr. anderson and i am 71.

see protégé of the late jane rogers used a seat mr. rogers when i was a little girl. we had hundreds with josh and my father with where the effects. but my question to dr. anderson, as relate taken back with the comments a young lady made early i'm e not angry and i was wondering, talk to these young people and letpl them know thiss not history this is a life this is what we lived. my parents and grandparents this

is not history this is a continuum. thank you and it's wonderful to see you, thanks. >> thank you. so the question is how do we -- we are consistently are stunned by the lack of knowledge about tulsa. so how many folks until they saw watchmen did not even know tulsa happened?il when i'm teaching the civil rights movement, i start off my class going you know, how many of you have basically heard of the civil rights movement as rosa sat down, trayvon martin stood up, he had a dream and we all overcame? so when you get that incredible movement reduced to rosa and trayvon martin and overcome, and what we lose is the massive

local organizing that happened that made movement happen. so when we don't have that history we h have the sense that this should happen quickly. and that be, all you have to have as a leader. no, it takes a lot of folks. a lot of hours, a lot of commitment. hiit's knowing that history and how do we do this? so one of the things as i do have on the emory website a basic breve five minute history called the hidden histories of civil rights. where i provided it's in those soundbites that allows teachers to be able to use that in their classrooms as aa foundation for greater discussion, for greater knowledge. there are also some incredible websites out there. the guilder lehrman institute, i am blanking right now, civil

rights movement veterans website that have have the documents and the narrative theory really provide access to the knowledge. that is all we have to begin, facing history, facing ourselves. those entities provide a much broader access to this history that helps us understand. this is one of the things about 1% no vote, white rage in the second is that where we are now with what happened then so we can see through the through line. we can see, what was at faulkner, the past is not the past is not over it's not even the past. or employing that faulkner line but it's something like that. the past is still with us we are still living it.

>> host: tweet from stuart, your books are essential to understanding the need for our complete history. after the backlash against nicole hannah jones 1619 project, do you know of an organized effort by the academic community to preserve our undiluted u.s. history? >> you know, so what i see is through the american historicaln association. through the association for the study of african-american lifeca and history. i am seeing that those organizations are really doing the work of ensuring that our history is taught, that it is preserved. i am seeing this in archives. the archives are working overtime to make sure that the original documents and the original artifacts are still

there. so that we can see you then. so it emory we have our stuart rose library. and in there for instance at the papers, we have got the signs, and the actual street signs from resurrection city which was the poor people's campaign in 1968 that continued on after the assassination of trayvon martin luther king. so you see archives for uc historical organization association really doing this work. but it behooves all of us when you have the school board flooded with angry parents, and i put that in quotes because sometimes those folks do not even have children in the schools. it behooves us to pay attention to that and to participate in that process so that, that is

the backlash from teaching divisive history and history that makes her children so uncomfortable is in fact they push back saying we must know this history. we cannot be the nation we can be we don't understand how we got here. about 15 minutes left with our guest, carol andrus the next call for her comes from frank and west, palm beach hi frank. >> good afternoon. i wanted to say the show is excellent and the professor is very, very good. i disagree with almost every and she says. but that said my question is can she explain why the crime rate, especially murder in the black communities in major cities is so out of control? is that a white issue?

a black issue? sue and frank, before we let you go why do you disagree with professor anderson? >> well, i am on the right i guess that's my best way of putting it. several things i hear i just disagree with. that's about all i can say put. >> to you in any way consider yourself to be a racist? >> neverer have. that being said someone may look me in the face and said i was i never have and i don't believe i am. >> host: thank you sir. speech of framing of that question was quintessential. have all this murder happening in the black community? remember earlier when i said 80%

of african-americans over 80% of african-americans are killed bya african-american. and over 80% of whites are killed by whites. but we don't get that we're talkingg elves black crime, that is the narrative of black pathology that's the narrative anti- blackness that i laid out in the second because what it is saying is blacks are inherently violent. they are inherently criminal. and so therefore we must have, weaving the white community must have protection against the source of instability and violence in american society. now what we don't get to are the issues of watching what happens when our schools are devalued and defunded. what happens when jobs go away? what happens when we have this a massive massive discrimination

happening in our employment? there's incredible researchou ot there that shows if you have a racially identifiable name but the qualifications are the same as someone who does not have a racially identifiable name. so for instance an equal sean tate jackson has a resume and jennifer sue jones has a resume. equal qualification chinook would jackson will have to send in multiple, multiple resumes and letters to get the interview. opposed to jennifer jones. because of the inherent racial discrimination. so when we are looking at the kinds of biases that are in american society that limit access to jobs. that limit access to housing. we have incredible studies about

what that means in terms of the discrimination in housing. the discrimination in healthcare. the discrimination in policing. when we are looking at all of this, we are just asking about black folks killing black folks and we are not looking at whites who kill whites and we are not looking at the structural inequality that are there in american society than we are not asking for a real answer. we are asking for that soundbite answer. spent what he think about frank saying i'll like you kind of jumped and i think i saw you smile out of the corner of my eye because they did smile for a smell because i've had that before, right? and i am like great, come with the evidence. come with the facts. come with a historicalst documentation. come with a valid research

studies. i just know doesn't work for this is what i mean by the undermining of academe. what it does is it underminesecc the rigors of the research. the rigors of the analysis to make how i feel on par with that in to make how feel become part of policy. instead of the rigors of the work. went to charlotte tallahassee, florida. hello good afternoon. cheryl and, and thank you doctor anderson for your work. my question has to do with whether or not address the what appears to be i hate to use a lot of, but how other populations in this country that

are nonwhite but not black seem to pile on and promote or perpetuate stereotypes or biases against the black race. and if there's any comments you can make toward that? and also if you have a book that addresses how we as a people, black people, can utilize a capitalistic ideas in this country to show better our position and have a better impact on the economy in the country? i hope that makes t sense. so when thank you cheryl and. >> there was a book limit dill two different books here. when it was how the irish became white. the irish immigrants were here they were treated horrifically. bottom of the barrel or close the bottom of the barrel.

but he documents is what they began to learn in american society, is anti- blackness. when you're talking about the piling on this is really what you are laying out. i'm sorry i cannot murmur the authors name right now, but dealt with how japanese-americans and chinese-americans became the model minority. that really happened in the 1960s.vi so while you are having that civil rights movement happening. while you're having this force saying america must become america, you have this a backlash that puts up asian americans as the model minorities as opposed to the black folk. and what she lays out here, because she asked the question how do we go from the chinese exclusion act i hate it when my

brain just fries like that, and the internment of the japanese and the internment of the japanese in the 1940s, how do we go from that and from the banning of all asian immigration in the 19204 national origin act, how do we go from that kind of policy to model minority inat the 1960s? and what she laid out was that asian americans went from being not white in the 1890s, the 1920s, the 1940s, to being not black in the 1960s when you're having a civil rights movement and the black power movement. that kind of linguistic turn that then elevates. they believe in family. asians and believe in education. they believe in hard work.

they're not looking for government handout. you get these kind of tropes that attach to model minority is a way to help create the fishers and communities of color. but, one of the things we are seeing is that as a powerful as that is. that's an old british colonialism then, divide and conquer. this is what i love human rights. on a human rights frame we all are in this together. we all work together we see this the workers in florida that deal with tomato growers. in this organization in this immobilization of workers you sought a human rights frame you hadd african-americans you had

latinos you had asian americans you had a whites all working together to improve the quality of life and that working conditions in the tomato fields and florida. when folks are try to split them apart they would be like no, no that is what become so essential this is again i go back to reverend william barber. the movement he is creating is multiracial, multiethnic, multireligious. that is for the power lies. stuho went darrell is coming frm the u.s. virgin islands. darrell you are on with author carol anderson. >> good afternoonoo ms. anderso. i have a question and a concern. i'm on the virgin islands and studying from the early 1900s up

to the 1970s. with harrison and the newton negra movement and his work. your book about bourgeois radicals i thought the naacp had dropped the ball in their work. when you explain the work they have done for people of color and oppressed people of society in the u.s. and inside the u.s. gave me another perspective on them. but i think currently they are in my opinion dropped the ball in the efforts to affect real change for people of color in america. spielberg going to leave it there but i did when to ask you is your research personal or is it professional? >> personal right now. i wish i had a teacher like her. i went to oregon state i wish i had a teacher like her at the time when i went.li >> think you darrell for culligan.

. professor anderson? >> kind of sorted too vague for me too be specific. [laughter] because i really focused in on the 1940s, and taking it through the 1960s. half of the focus of my work relook at the naacp the civil rights congress the national negro congress by the council on african affairs were those were the organizations i was following through in my work. american committee on africa. so seeing those organizations and how they were deploying their strengths, how they were succumbing to their weaknesses was absolutely essential for me in terms of m laying out how the struggle for decolonization worked. >> host: 's six books of doubt

is there another the works? [laughter] there's one in my head. >> you want to share it with us? will do a little group therapy with you on it? >> okay. [laughter] sword and thinking book i am entitling the ties that bind in silence. african-american response to political violence in haiti, congo, and nigeria. 1960 -- 1970. my initial research one of things i found, let me give you broader concept than that. what i am intrigued by our organizations that say they are there for the people to protect the people and then they don't. what are the forces that create that? and then what are the forces that create them to move? so what i saw in haiti and in congo five are liberal

organizations, black liberal organizations. i am not seeing them really engage with the violence writing doubt in haiti in congo. why?ro they have been so involved in providing resources to those nations. and fighting for those nations arguing at the state department and the white house for those nations. why the silence from black folks are getting slaughtered? >> host: or did you get that idea? >> guest: it was me being stunned at the silence. because at the same time when i haiti is erecting its erupting in this violence, very little. what i am saying south africa is happening. these groups are all over south

africa for the violence and that massacre rained out and sharp bill. so they get the protection of black folk. they get how they got a bloodied pulpit to fight for this. why not here? but then i see them really getting engaged in the civil war in nigeria? what was it that change that because a level of engagement i didn't see in the first two? like the last two hours our guest is been author and professor carol anderson of her most recent books include white rage, the unspoken truth of our racial divide. one person no vote to bring a voter suppression is destroying our democracy. her most recent book the second two recent guns and a fatally unequal america but thank you for your time on the sunday

book. >> thank you so much peter this was wonderful. ♪ if you are enjoying book tv sent for a newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. tv every sunday on cspan2 or any time online booktv.org. television for serious readers. ♪ weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story and on sundays a book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 comes from these television companies and more including comcast. >> are you thinking this was just a committee center? no it's way more than that. comcast is part of the 1000 community centers to create wi-fi enabled so that students from low-income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything.

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