of hope someone who sees the country is the single-family unit and someone willing to stake their life on that and we need leadersre who are sacrificial without focus and goal oriented leaders who demand the best from the country. >> please join me to thank senator tim scott. [applause] y and

impact of the second amendment. host: carol anderson, it >> july 3, 2022 what is the july 4, 1776 celebration mean to you? >> that means we are perched as a democracy july 41776. a perilous time as peerless as it was when the continental

army look like it was getting there but kicked as planned the south launched the civil war. we are inou perilous times are our democracy is hanging bya a thread. host: why do you say that quick. >> what is happening right now in american democracy we have the assault on voting rates the attack to wash away the teaching a real american history and the air attack is the loosening of gun laws having a narrative that insurrectionist legitimate political discourse all of the violence and threats coming down on election workers and officials. g oking at what's happening with voting, our education system and the narrative we come to understand.

then youu look at the tool of politics, we're under a full-blown assault aided and abetted by the us supreme court and by hyper extreme gerrymandered state legislatures. we are in trouble. and we have always fought back knowing this democracy was worth the fight. so we have to gear up again and fight for this democracy and fight for this nation. host: as a historian at emory, there has been some comparisons made to pre- civil war. can you make that comparison or see that. >> getting to separate nations

in different directions those that believe in the fullness of citizens humanity —- humanity that believe there is this thing called democracy but on the other hand you have thoseha that the vision is a democracy with a labor pool generating enormous resources that go up to a small strata of flights that they have convinced a larger number that they canes get the benefits of a massive set of resources cominght up congress labor pool that's not howow this works so you get a sense of a hyper racialized democracy

full-blown rights that is multi racial and ethnic and t religious and vibrant. so those two visions of what the nation is and can be is a collision course. host: with this conversation today focusing on three of your books and that includes one person, white rage. they all seem to have come in from an incident that happened. 's is a fair comparison? in the 2018 georgia gubernatorial race white rage michael brown and is that a fair way?

and what struck me were the pundits to think hillary last because black folks did not show up. black folks just stayed home but that analysis ignores the hope that this was the first 50 years with racial discriminatory voting it is

where you have for instance alabama with the voter id that says you must have a government issued photo id. but the public housing identification does not count as a government issued photo id. currently 1 percent of those in public housing in alabama are african-american. the naacp legal defense found fund found the only government issued photo id they had then governor bentley shut down the department of motor vehicles and the black felt county. when you have the one government issued id you have doesn't count and then say i will have a drivers license

but then the bureaus are shut down and you have to go 50 miles to go gete a drivers license but if you don't how the 100 miles round-trip? public transportation is ranked 48 in the nation in terms of public transportation so it's not like you can hop on public transportation to go the 50 miles that's what i mean by racially discriminatory voter id. host: look at white rage what is the book stem from? is that fair? >> teaching faculty how to write for a public audience. we had a workshop later that day i had the tv on and the news was just glaring and it didn't matter what channel i was watching because ferguson

missouri was on fire. and the pundits a look at black rage black folks burn up where they live can you believe that black rage it doesn't matter what channel i had on it was the same narrative i lived in missouri 13 years. i found myself shaking my head. this is not black rage but white rage are so focused on the flames we missed the kindling in the policies in place that generate that explosion that's what we do with education, housing, the criminal justice system , voting rights. we miss allos of the key fundamental basics on the

policies to systematically underminear them and then say look at the black folks burning up where they live without that white rage underneath it. host: this is a quote, it is not v about violence vista works its way to the courts and legislatures and a rangeve of government bureaucracy attribute inevitably. >> yes this is what being a historian allowed me to do to see the pattern after the civil war but instead a massive backlash those try to reinstall slavery by another name and then johnson to

undermine with the civil war should have been about and then with us supreme court got the 1314 and 15 amendment. and with the segregation of public facility going after white domestic terrorism. with the into their expand the executive orders that undermine that advancement of whatme freedom meant that is white rage and i carry that through to the great migration with the brown decision the civil rights movement and the election of barack obama. host: what the brown decision you talk about how it wasn't really fully implemented using

san antonio as an example. >> what we see there is that you have this massive disparity you have a sense of equality coming up under the 14h amendment equal protection under the law. in a neighborhood in san antonio overwhelmingly mexican-american andnd african-american they were taxing themselves at the highest level but still only able to generate a few dollars per student per capita whereas the edgewood district which was a wealthy white suburb of san antonio tax themselves at a much lower rate because of property values they could generate hundredsla of dollars per capita so the mexican american parents sued it is

fundamentally unequal we're taxing ourselves at the highest rate because of public policy to devalue our property we cannot generate enough income or tax dollars to adequately fund a quality education for our children. the us supreme court looked at that and said equality does not require equal funding. so that disparity that you saw and that we see now was blessed on high by the us supreme court. host: your most recent book is the second race of guns in the fatally unequal america. 42million african-americans in the state according to recento statisticscs, 25 percent are gun owners. >> i'm not surprised.

one of the things i look at is how access to gunsib that anti- blackness drove the second amendment so regardless of the legal status of african-americans, enslaved, tht peace between citizen and enslaved emancipated african-american, jim crow obama african-american, regardless of that type of legal status where we think the progress we have made the fear of black people has created a crisis and has driven the second amendment so african-americans buying guns if you think of

the terror raining down on society you see the rise of right wing militia during the obama presidency and the rise of white gun ownership during the obama presidency then we have trump and then the embrace of white nationalism and white supremacist. because of the technology and police violence that rained down on black folks you have african-americans doing what they have consistently done which is to say we have to defend her cells in this society. no one is coming to help us. host:'s is the bookk you thought you would write something you thought about for quite a while? >> no. actually it was the killing of flandreau castile that did it.

dealing with african-americans and when he was gunned down by a police officer because he had a license carry weapon that's what he was gunned down the nra went virtually silent on this killing of a man simply because he had a gun some pundits are asking don't they have second amendment rights? and that's a question i have not explored yet so i went hunting and i went back to the h century. host: what did you find? >> i found the fear of the enslaved and the laws coming through to deal with the fear to protect the white community

from the enslaved and a key element in that was disarmament or the banning of access to guns so you saw that coming out ofir virginia and south carolina thou shall not g have guns and you saw this coming through in the constitutional ratification convention where you get to virginia i'm not sure about this constitution thing why? because one of the key elements of patrick henry and george mason saying this militia that we needsl to keep the enslaved in check james

madison put control under the federal government under congress we cannot rely upon the feds to defend that with the enslaved to rise up so pennsylvania or massachusetts? they will not come down here to defend us we will be left defenseless basically they threatened to cut ratification but then threatened to hold a new constitutional convention madison was scared the jesus and that is a scholarly term because the articles of confederation have not worked so they push to the new constitution one —- constitution t there is a fear that it is too powerful so in

the first congress we have the billri of rights think of freedom of religion the right to a speedy and fair trial. that is an outlier and that is basically to uphold the constitutional convention to say you are protected and the militia is safe. host: we surprised what you found about the second w w amendment? >> yes. i really was because so much of our discussion today about the second amendment is the individual right to bear arms or was this really about a militia? we get a binary coming on the

supreme court hello decisiondo and then or is this about the militia the courts long held it was really about a militia but the binary argument is irrelevant because the foundation of the second amendment is the fear of blackness or black people it is criminal as dangerous and violent and the white community has to be protected so as i walk through the book into the 20th and 21st century i am' seeing the ways that we understand citizenship

through gun rights. defend your home against an invader. but those kinds of doctrines stand your ground when applied to african-americans they don't hold in an open carry state of boyte by himself with a toy again and lungs are not threatening anyone you can

carry a weapon openly. take two seconds tissue rice down. he was dangerous and the threat and then the juxtapose to kylehe rittenhouse within ar 15 whoho strolls by the police officers in kenosha wisconsin with the black lives matter protest saying we are so glad you are here. due in some water it is hot and then shoots. two of them he kills they don't see threat or danger they are not afraid it speaks volumes about the second amendment. host: review at all a gun

person prior to writing the most recent book? >> no. i was not pro-gun or anti- gun i was just here. and it was a discussion of flandreau that set me down the path do african-americans have second amendmenten rights? always is a long and hard word but we have said we need to be reasonable about guns so the semi automatic weapons being readily available to civilians makes no sense to me. you cannot hunt within ar 15 and eat the deer afterwards. come on.

thear logic. those are for hunting people so the basic logic. host: welcome back to booktv in-depth studio the first time in two and a half years we are back with a guest in the studio and we are pleased it's every professor carol anderson. if you have been listening you heard some of the topics we will talk about today. your participation is key on booktv.

carol anderson how long to be then it every? >> 2000 and from the university of missouri i was for 13 years. host: why did you transplant to georgia. >> emery is an amazing university and it was an opportunity and seeking the answers and then there is

atlanta which is an amazing city. host: columbia missouri and atlanta where did you start life? >> columbus ohio. that's not accurate. my father was inn the military i was born on an army base in lived in germany for several years and then so that is where i did a lot of my growing up in columbus ohio. i went to school my undergrad and my masters at miami in ohio am a phd is from the ohio state university in history. host: why did you decide to

become a scholar? what appealed to you is getting a phd? >> i love learning there were always books in the home and always discussions in the house about what was happening in the world about politics and civil rights and injustice and me trying to figure this out. i had wonderful mentors along the way that really help me to figure out how to become a scholar. professor ingle i know this is hard to believe but we are going on over at case and i popped off and he said can i see you after class? and im thinking i'm getting ready to be thrown out of the class with the five credit

class i will lose full-time status i walk up to him after class and said professor he said he thought about going to graduate school i said yes but i have no idea how to get there. he said come with me. having mentors like that to help shepherd me through it could be a very arcane and opaque process was instrumental that the natural love of learning i was one of those kids who would read the encyclopedia from a-z and thenn read it all over again. host: what do you teach at emory? >> civil rights movement and 20h century american history genocide in american human rights policy and i teach the black athlete in american

society and at one point i also taught us cold war foreign-policy. host: going back to georgia you have a a black athlete running for senator. >> yes we do. yes we do. what we really have is a deployment and the representation that is not representative. the same way the republican tappedey alan keyes and it's the herschelg with walker football star at if university of georgia let's put him up against senator warnock. and what we see is someone has a history of violence and someone who consistently lies

about his credentials he is there because he's black not because he can do the heavy lifting and being a us senator that was a poison the answer he gave after the killings in texas and said how do you handle the issue of guns will cain slew able and then you have the disinformation seen in the department where it looks at young men have constitutional rights so you have the soundbitestt on their i

know i needd to say something about the bible or social media or constitutional rights and disinformation and that's what we got but that's not policy. so that has been insulting to think black folks will run that way simply because he's black. it's not enough. host: have you ever been in the church when pastor warnock has been preaching? >> no i have not. host: is a hard to get in can anybody can come in? >> i'm sure. ebenezer is a storied church. it is bedrock foundational to the history of black atlanta and the civil rights movement

and it is where reverend doctor martin luther king preached it is ebenezer. host: news reports indicated the 2022 georgiaor primary elections. >> i will liken that to house oppressive can it be with a great turnout? the narrative does not look at all of them mobilization of civil society all of the work of the new georgia project in the black voters matter in the naacp all of the work of the aclu and asian americans advancing justice.

all of those groups trying to move folks through over and beyond and across the barriers the georgia legislature set in place. i liken it somebody tries to rob you and they don't succeed you can fend them off there's a group of folks to send them off does the fact they were not able it is predicated on

the day lie ofma massive voter fraud that no one can prove because it didn't happen. and it is predicated for how do we stop these folks with incredible turnout and the 2020 election and the 2021 runoff? black voter turnout was almost 92 percent. when you are in a democracy you embrace that turnout. we did something right. how do we continuew on? and less you say how do we stop this? host: last question before we get to calls, and all your books the subject of human rights plays a role. it doesn't permeatees by you

bring it up and leave it in. >> human rights are so foundational it was my first book i ask how could all of the blood and all of the courage and all of the effort by civil rights for lead to an american with a life expectancy you have massive disparities of mortality rates massive wealth gaps that shape the ways people can move through their society how does the civil rights movement this

is the and finished business how could all of that be the american that we are in and what my research showed we have a civil rights movement not a humanan rights movement. how did that happen? because you had malcolm x. to say how does he get the civil rights before the human rights you have the end on —- naacp and debbie ee be the voice saying the same thing earlier so what could create that level of community amnesia as if he was the first one to say at the power of anti- communism that defies human

rights. the right to education and housing that's what the soviets want and if you are a patriot you don't want that. and how the witchhunts were targeting african-american organizations to vie for the human rights platform to the point where it became politically safer that doesn't mean safe because we know the violence that rains down to fight for civil rights. but it becamey politically safer to argue on the civil rights platform. all we want is what is the bill of rights. what could be more american band the bill of rights then to talk about wanting the

right to housing or the right to healthcare or employment, leisure, looking at the universal declaration of human rights because also cast as a communist organization by the right wing american politics so my work really gives those truncated rights the residuals of what that looks like as we live through this america. host: i promise that was the last question but a couple more came to mind but we will hear from the bronx. >>caller: thank you enjoy your lecture when youue speak to college students stacy abrams changed her position she used to be against the idea

requiring people to present id can you explain why? >> thank you for the question it is the work with the sense that voter id is reasonable that everybody has an 80 and that we have voter fraud. so that is not too much to ask for people to show an id in order to protect democracy or our elections they looked at the polls and 70 percent of americans believe that voter fraud happens on a regular basis or something like that and 50 percent believe it happens regularly. so coming up against the tide

it allows for the discussion we have got to have the voting rights what it runs up against is voter id most americans are believing voter id is fine because it plays to the middle classs norm and the racial discrimination that is inherent in the way the states have deployed voter id. it felt like a battle too far. host: alexandria louisiana good afternoon.ll >>caller: . >> welcome coming up to the fourth of july. i see you are history professorca , i was a democrat for a long time, but i joined

the republican party because of some different things that the democrats were doing. my parents crowds were republicans first because the republican party helped out the african-americans and stuff in my question for you, is i believe in god guns and bible bullets and beans in our constitution, if you look at been franklin, this was a representative republic is a a democracy source of us to be a representative republican, constitutional republic in agreh you on racism, when the castillo got murdered, the cop should've never done that and nra should've said something. after the civil war, the nra was trying to teach blacks to have gun ownership to protect themselves with the democrats had the claimant seven so i

don't know if you have the history of democratic party plan was the military wing of the democratic party there were the ones that came up with the jim crow laws and all like that for martin luther and king. >> cornelius, very quickly, why are you a republican today. >> it because the democrats have allied to us. they have always wanted to defund the police, they do not want us to have goods, were killing our own selves with these gang members in the drugs dealers and stuff and d so folls need to betu armed. arm of america. >> cornelius, thank you very much and professor this is his nobody raised to the point to you by. >> so they were a couple of points are, o edwin was whether democrats are and yes, after the civil war, the democrats were the party of white supremacy. unabashed unalloyed, white supremacy and one of the things

that have happened though and it's called the southern strategy and with the southern strategy did, was as the democrats began to do with the issue of civil rights for african-americans, because of the great migration because african-americans moving out of the jim crow south is that you have the republicans going, there is gold in those hills of white resentment about civil rights and you see it being devoid and 48, you seed doing and being deployed and 52 and you see it being deployed in 64 for tingly see it being deployed with richard nixon and 68 and with ronald ragan and 80 so if you wonder why we have this demographic shift, it is because of the southern strategy, for the republicans brought in this sense of anti- civil rights as

their mantra. and with the issue about guns and there were killing each other, one of the things that we often hear about his black on black crime, that is the narrative of black mythology, and yes, over 80 percent of black people killed by black peoplele and over 80 percent of white people, her killed by white people but we don't have narrative of white on white crime. why is that and sometimes we have to ask the next question how would you also have is that you have washington dc, and chicago have implemented gun safety law to try to deal with homicide rates in the cities any of the u.s. supreme court first in the heller decision and then in the mcdonald decision undermine those safety laws and you saw the guns flooding into

those communities again as of this is one after texas shooting, you have governor ever talking about what about chicago because it becomes the kind of trove block violence that gives deployed consistently by the republicans. >> text message from kelvin in baltimore, good afternoon as a human gel ♪ ♪ right play a part in fueling our divide in our society presumably and presently and its influence and the supreme court scotus i.e., the federal society. >> the role of white evangelical christianityty, is powerful federal became a force i want to say in the 70s and really took hold in the 80s and has not that go.

there's a wonderful book called the long southern strategy by todd shields and angie maxwell, that looks at the three pillars of the law on southern strategy and what evinces racism. another pillar is patriarchy, and the other pillar is white evangelical christianity. in the role that it plays in the republican nomination of the republican party, and it's shaping those policies and so we are seeing this in the recent scotus decision where you have been mean, we remain was only fitting secular schools. and vouchers for the secular schools and were you have these white evangelical christian school saying, we want some of thatnt public money to anyone supreme court said, yes, you have to do this. it is where you have the recent

decision with a coach was kneeling on the 50-yard line and you had the supreme court ignoring the evidence that this is a public school, this was a public event honey public field we have the power of the coach around his players kneeling in a christian prayer and i have to ask yourself, if maine happens to have the school bus attentive devotion, they going to be eligible for public funds as well as a part of what you are seeing happening as this narrowing definition of what is religion and you had another for talking about how she sick of hearing about the separation of church and state and will that is the first amendment heard the treating it as if it were made up and so much of what we are saying inee america, is missed history in maine of history and

is used to justify policies, that are absolutely important to this democracy. >> this call for professor carol anderson comes from pamela in marlboro, maryland in the suburbs. >> hi i think you for taking my call it doctor henderson, it is my honor to speak with you. i've been married 36 years, african-american mama and two african-american sons and a husband head i would likee to know from you speaking you've been alluded to this already can you speak to the issue the ideology that we are still fighting the confederacy andl s ideology states rights that have ensued from enter johnson who was the president of the lincoln assassination and who is a start state right supporter and he favored the restoration of the confederate states of civil government to be back in power and as a result of doing that

time, the path of the writing the freed form of slaves of the civil rights and liberties were guaranteed by the civil government for example the 40 acres and as a matter of fact, the former slave owners were given the money for every slave that was made free and something around $300 or something to that00 effect but anyway, how all of this still goingl on in the undercurrent t today that we face and how in the 60s, miniclip like you said, the republicans began to embrace these state rights ideology and i guess i thought they were dixie tracks with the former democrats, they were now embracing the rights of the federal government to protect african-americans and others, can you just speak to help in essence, your supporting this confederate anti- ideology. this just changed forms just having to fight his back pamela before we getef an answer, can u tell us a little bit about

yourself, you live in a very nice community one of the wealthiest black majority black communities in america, have you faced some of the issues that you talk about. >> will serve as number public servant and i'm a state employee at work for young ladies that are on medical assistance and the undocumented who do not have healthcare and we provide healthcare and make sure that they have access to the can of healthy baby so i'm a public service but leaving giving back. i was raised by maternal grandmother and i was wrong no money at having to be a nurse in a very young age so i just leaving giving back but i just see what were dealing with and he thought this stuff that i read about i never thought that i would be living in a time with my rights were being assaulted and having to goed vote i have family, my family came from alabama and my mom was born and raised in alabama so to see what

we have to go through, my father was born and raised in georgia so ton see what we have to face, here in 2022, it is mind-boggling pretty. >> thank you. >> absolutely, and one of the things i was given a talk in virginia and i said, one of the things is that when we look at germany, germany had dean knox vacation program went never had a deacon federalization program, we never looked at the confederacy and dismantled it in its entirety and instead, what we have, we started erecting statutes to it, to his leaders, robert e.er lee, jefferson davi, and we started having in our textbooks and because of the united daughters of the confederacy, the loss cause becomes his heroic event. only if he had think about what that means for the way that our

children learn, what they understand so the slavery really was not that bad, you have really benevolent quite owners and you had fully enslaved were fed well and they were clothed in the headad housing and what could be so bad and you have this big mean nasty north coming down and trying to impose its will on his really good honest hard-working noble folks when we come sleep narrative, that is in our textbooks and until u at the 2070s. and, think about the battles that we have had recently overtaking these confederate monuments in these public spaces because what that is telling us is that this is how would we should be honoring and so we have these tech plates underneath american society

basically says, the confederacy, they were god, the slavery was not that bad and i think about will o'reilly go after michelle obama talk about living in a house was built by the insulated become a and on his show, he said that you know, he really was not that bad, they were housed in the workload there will clothed and well fed and so how bad could it be. only get that coming in in the 21st century, it is the thing that we have not dealt with and we have not dealt with slavery and when you look at how these states are demanding revision of thedi curriculum so that it does not make the white students feel uncomfortable. and it doesat not cause a kind f sense of being ill at easing so

we don't talk about slavery that is over in texas, thinking about renaming slavery, involuntary relocation. so when you can create these euphemisms, to cover the horrors, this nation has been through, and when you don't deal with the realities of slavery and you don't deal with his realityth of genocidal violence against indigenous people you don't deal with the reality of xena phobia are anti-immigrant policies and you don't deal with the reality of the relocation of the japanese. when you don't deal with any of those realities, you don't understand america and prickly, is a disservice to america. and it's an aspirational nation and we hold these truths to be self evident and so having the folks like to make those things

self-evident is a key piece, american history but when you remove that and you treat those aspirations, hasn't they have already been achieved, that is what allows for the embrace of the confederacy and white entered whitening up of slavery and of white washing of slavery and i remember i got a notice from an organization that i have been supporting the said, come visit our beautiful plantations in mississippi and come see the true southern charm hello thought, what kind of a messes this. that i sent them a note back and i said, no more than you would heralded tour of assonance is a testament to find german engineering, should you look ati

these plantations as anything than what theyth are, in place wereac human beings were brad ad were born and were beaten and were worked without pay. and were tortured. the slave labor camps, when you try to pretty hip-hop, you defile american history. as a part of what we are looking at is the defiling of american history but not dealing with the confederacy and help it was able to maintain its power through the southern democrats, and out through the republicans. >> sugars plantations be maintained as historic sites. >> yes, they should and should be maintained as historic sites from the same way, accurate

history and in the sites and laying out what really happened there. any other was one of the battles in the net boarded greeted is a want to this battles over monticello, and thomas jefferson place where prior to you have this, he was one of the founding fathers and he just on my god, he was brilliant and he was wonderful and theil like okay so were sally hemmings. that history and narrative is essential for understanding the battles that we have in america in the kind of we hold these truths to be self-evident but would go to g protect the slave. we are the leader of the free world we are the jim crow leader of the free world and that kind of dichotomy absolutely essential for understanding this

nation. >> ice call for carol anderson's comes from nate in mesa, arizona. >> hi, this is a wonderful show and ms. sanderson, i never watch cspan but i haven't turned the tv on and i just got intrigued. i am 60 a black men 11 mesa, arizona. and i had returned to school back when i was 47, that a degree in entrepreneurship was hetr going to the class i had to write in english paper. to get instant and accepted into the university and so i basically pick the topic of these disproportionate incarceration of african-americanss.

eating 35 so-called the paper, found by law. anna's i was listening to you, your teaching, you are a professor with a masters program. every. >> yes, i amm a professor at emory university in the department of african-american studies and they have history documented students.s. >> in your care. >> guest tonight so my grandfather was historian and so thinking, only get my masters but i was not sure what i wanted to do and i just heard or someone had heard you talking in my question is, for those who have the sameti question, i cant go to emory university, do they offer an online masters program in any of your classes. >> thank you nathan. >> none of my classes are

online. during the height of covid-19, we went into online classes for the kind of protection of our and faculty. but we are now back in the classroom. >> carol anderson, we always ask the authors with their favorite books are what they're currently reading i want to go to what you said about currently reading and usually we get specific titles but this is quote from an e-mail, a brazilian, how a judge in the non- section category for the national book awards and some of your books have been listed for that as well. >> yeah and so that is why a goodwill what are you reading it a brazilian box, and a coming in and going through them and they are fascinating and it's really intriguing sing the authors

wrestle with different types of subjects across the board. >> and this is your time and first time being a judge. >> for the national book award judge last year from pulitzer but this is the first one for the national book award. >> and how many books we have read before the ceremony november. >> we get in somewhere between 600 - 700 books, a bazillion. [laughter] and, just plowing through them. to really make sure that we are having really good sources. >> your favorite books professor under professor carolde anderso, unburied and norm and thomas mann and even worse than it looks, and steve larson, the girl who kicked the hornets nest and john dower, both of mercy and william garrity and kristin mullen from here for equality in

which of those five books to speak to. >> i think between jasmine horton stevee larson. have a girl who kicked the hornets nest, i know that might sound like a really hard choice because this is a book based in sweden and it is fiction. i think i have regretted maybe five or six times and i love that book. it speaks to my sense of justice and it speaks to my sense of even when you're looking at a - you can take on the leviathan and you can win and it's going to be hard and it's going to be tough. and some of the story deals with

a young woman it was brutalized by herfa father but her father s basically a secret agent for the government and so they let him get awayo with his violence against his family. and she had had enough and you know this is like the first book little with the dragon tattoo. [laughter] and so she had had enough and she sets him on fire. we commit her to an insane asylum, energy had award who abuses her, the trustee who abuses her and you see the story of unraveling where she has getting the heart and soul of a corrupt government, one that defies the constitution and one that has had itself up outside of the government to be more important than the

representative government that was there. and she takes them on and she has an incredible journalist who is helping her and she has an attorney who sees how law can be deployed toel help her. she has incredible computer skills to help yourself. and that combination, an book speaks to me because again, it is about justice and what is right and it is about writing a wrong and it is about holding folks accountable who abuse the trust in government and who abuse the trust of the people. >> we had about an hour left with our guest author carol anderson, the phone numbers are up in the sweet if you would like to dial into 027-48-8200 feet leaving the eastern and central time zone in 2027 right to zeroo one for thoe of you who mountain and pacific time zone how do you want to

send a text message and standing about (202)748-8903 and please include your first name in your city if you would, we also have some social media sites that we willwe scroll through because yu want to make a comment about way and now louisville, kentucky hi. >> good afternoon doctor andersonan and i hope like a dream, i'm an african cultural scholar, 71 years old i have been listening to the show have blocked it out earlier in the week, then doctor anderson was going to be on and i wanted to speak to her with doctor anderson, as i look at your second book and again i do forgive me i don't know how i don't know more orr you because you are outstanding but talking about your second book, for your fourth book, "the second," something that is happening now that i want you to address, i see in kentucky covertly it was

on friday, four police officers were killed and i think this was in eastern kentucky and also a few days before that, young african american man was stopped by the police and he was not comfortable with him and he fled but he ended up getting shot and fired and entered his body and think his name is jaelyn walker if i remember correctly but in the wake of the crux of what i am asking is i want you to speak into how can under the second amendment, will have a right to bear arms when an african-american person has a gun, and out even in kentucky and you don't even have to have a permanent anymore and you can just carry i'm thinking about getting me a holster had a gun and do. openly and then we'll have some gun control when they see african americans and mess with guns on hips then what gun control but what would like you

do addresses the whole dynamic of of a white man can kill, about of people they can capture a scratch and take them to burger king. but on the flipside, has were talking about, castillo and an african-american man with doing everything lawfully the weapon that as soon this weapon gets entered into thend discussion, with a whiten police officer, te gun him down and again this young boy down and try to 60 times and i listen to you and i'm enjoying it and you were fantastic. >> thank you. >> and this is really what i am talking about here so the book "the second,", you look at a mere block who was a young man up in minneapolis it was in his apartment and the police burst through and basically a no knock warrant and he is a gun by him as he's asleep on the couch in the sitting on, they say threat

and they should embed within ten seconds right so the sense of the castle doctors and this is what rhianna taylor supposedly had and now she is dead and this with catherine johnson and fi, supposedly had a now she is dead and the ability to protect your home from an invasion no. and then david walker, and a ringing through that story and the last time, i read someone was gunned down in of 60 bullets was a quadruple munching 1946 and monro, georgia, morris ford were two men and two women to black men into black women income worked basically executed in hail of bullets in the corners report describes the bullets in each of their bodies.

the kind of fear that has to generate to create without doubt of violence against that young man when you think about it, the guy who shot up the movie theater in aurora, colorado, he was taken alive in the parking lot and i think that 12 were dead and 74 wanted something to that affected yes, and dylan ruth, gunned down, and church during bible study and he has taken alive that isth what, i mean, by white is not a threat, black is a default threat in american society arm to block his next initial threat and this is why during the late 1860s, inc. california, you saw the

passage of what was called the mulford act and that was because of the black catheters were carrying openly carrying arms to police the police because violence in the police were writing down nonviolence on the black community. and there was no public entity that was willing to do doggone thing about its of the black panthers so that wee will police the police and so they knew the laws about open carrying in the knew the laws about what kind of guns they could have the knew the laws about how far they had to send away from the police. and the police hated it from the depths and the breath in the heights of the social reach, they hated it and so they ran to don mulford who was a conservative assemblyman in the california legislature hence the coming of godo help us. you have got to find a way to make what they are doing illegal because every time we pulled them over, we can't arrest him because i'm not doing anything

illegal so mulford writes the locke with the help of the nra. and eagerly signed by republican governor, ronald reagan a committeeman the kind of open carry that the black panthers were doing sou you don't even have to comeom up with a hypothetical, black folks are carrying guns, you will see gun regulations happening here. that we have a history of that segment denny's, jacksonville, florida, good afternoon. >> good afternoon and cspan when i found out that doctor printed was going to be on the show, i 70 be up so i could watch it i just want to thank her for the books that she's written and i did not realize that i did not know much about black three in america until i started to read the book, "white rage" and i was just shocked card and i just thank you so much. i'm going to buy the other three

books that you have t out there becauseha i had decided that i wanted to invest in myself to learn critical race theory after 2019, when the black lives matter movement went on and i just didn't realize how much i did notiz know. i want to thank you for that. >> knees, can you tell us a little bit about yourself. >> while yes, i would be 65 this year and 11 jacksonville florida, became interested in politics when i started learning corporate finance at the university for my undergrad degree but when i started to look at the politics, and seeing all of theg different things tt were going on i could not really relate to itt a really good . give an educated and educated conversation with that's when i really started investing in myself to learn these things but i was just talking i never knew about the black emancipation of

the slaves and i did not know myself so when i brought it tomy my attention about in florida in 1901 of life, and oklahoma and i was in a white people say the black people will tear up stuff where they learned from, every time seem like people would be successful, the way people would get envious and jealous and try to destroy it. and so now a lot of things, they did not make sense to me, it makes sense now when i go to work and i see people acting a certain way or if you can't advance on a job regardless of you education and yourse experience and now it makes sense to me. >> thank you. >> we will w limit their professor. >> and this is what i write these books my first two books were academic books, they were both for an academic audience

but my writing style is very accessible and so translated really well into being able to provide these rich histories, well documented rich histories were a broader public because there's so much that we are not taught in school and we are seeing a push again and so in florida, there is thes push, nt to have the kinds of history that can talk about rosewood can talk about it come florida in 1920, where you basically had ethnic cleansing because black folks dared to try to vote. the whites burned down the black part of town and they ran the black folks out of there and for the next five decades, there were no black people in a co- we, florida him we don't know that history. if were not taught and is not made readily available to usle d so that is why i do this work

because i really believe that once we know our history, were having a very different conversation about where we are as a nation and what we need to do. >> know you mentioned that radicals and scholarly book rather than accessible book and i want to read a quote from their and have youou explain itf you would. >> i sure will. >> the somatic rabbit hole the main the naacp a standardbearer for imperialism and the soviet union synonymous with anticolonialism and the grease the way intoin a wonderland of e association disappeared like the chess tire account from the histories of colonial liberation tunnels. >> yes. [laughter] [laughter] >> is quite a sentence and congratulations on that. >> thank you so what i was dealing with there, was that since 1971, in this book came out in like 2015, or so and since 19 or 2014 since 1971, the

histories that have been written about decolonization struggles in the roles of african-americans in these decolonization struggles and the dismantling of these empires in africa and in asia and they all have championed the left and the role of the black left in the role of the left is self treated the naacp as basically water boys for truman imperialism and colonialism basically ofia civilian deadly turned his back in 1947 withh the rise of the cold war. turned its back on the struggles and basically left it to the left. but when i was finishing up eyes off the prize, that one last sweep of the archives because there could be that document the just blows your whole book of rc just what makes her some point ofi' these archives on the naacp papers and i find this letter from esa, have the somali youth

league in 1949, two years after the naacp authentically took turns back as i thank you so much for all of your help anyone, keeping the italians off of us and i went, right, what is this. excuse me and you know you have his something and i became the foundation of for bourgeois radicals nice andnd i'm going to go wherever the naacp went to board that they go from there to south africa and theyn took on the dutch in indonesia, they took on italians force amalia in libya and eritrea and they are taking on the struggles and i figured out that what they were doing, was dismantling the norm, the main colonialism and imperialismm acceptable. so they took on the way demand murder and where the thing with these european powers when they

were talking to meetings and they would take empires a big, bigger than your entire and everybody is saying i really want an empire the made being an imperial power, not a badge of honor. but a scholarly letter and so watching how the naacp was instrumental in reshaping the norms of colonial empires some of the imperialism and it again, is when we only have a narrative about the power of the left and doing this work, we don't understand have changes made it and wanted to be able to scan rate that narrative because having the soviets as the avatar of all that is good and just and right in the world, no. there's just a longer history there i wanted to make sure that that was clear having the naacp and asvi he beat basically demonstrated as a toady, the flf

the historical records show. >> teaching and writing books, and you also do public speaking is well and you get a few places correct. >> yes, ide do. [speaking in nativee tongue] one point is everything too much. >> we have a documentary coming out soon. it is a great question that i am asking myself. but there is so much work to do. like a sick, when we started this conversation, this democracy is in trouble and it's under a full blown assault and to just say lord, i am tired and just is not sit with my sense of justice and is not sit with my sense of the girl who kicked the hornets nest. and does not sit with my sense of right and wrong.

and knowing, and knowing that the vision for the right has four this nation, is a vision that will send us hurtling back to a place where we may never recover. and we have to fight. sue met keith, middletown, connecticut, book tv with author carol anderson siva i think you for taking my call and i enjoyed listening to doctor anderson whenever i've had a chance to hear her speak on says as he spent. like many of your previous callers him i was very happy to rounded that she was going to be on your in depth show today and i wanted to make a couple of comments and get doctor anderson thoughts about them. regarding the bill of rights versus voting rights if i'm not mistaken, i believe there are four constitutional amendments

that deal with voting rights and seems like we have numerous states that are trying to put a terrier's make it more difficult for people to vote. yet when we about the second amendment and people's rights to keep and bear arms. people are aghast when anybody tries to put any type of regulation or any requirements i just within the past week or two, i think it was very sad when the supreme court having ruled against your brother required people to show a cause for carrying a weapon outside of the home so to me it just seems like a bit of hypocrisy that we cannot for any type of regulation on the second amendment the people's rights to carry weapons o and yet seems tt we have tons of speeches they're trying to restrict people's righte' to vote siva rip, thinke

got the point thank you sir. that inhank you for fact i had a student write a paper on that very dichotomy and so one of the things that you see here is because the 15th amendment and the 19th amendment and the amendment the bands the taxes and then he that lowered the voting age down to 18. all of those have been under assault, absolute assault and we see that for instance in the ways that you have states removing for instance, only places for the college campus is underway in north carolina they divided one university between two separate congressional districts as a way to dilute the voting power of that hbc you north carolina and the way that

they had lower or fewer early voting days for prayer review and and imminent taxes and then they have with surrounding counties that we see this consistently and we see this in terms of inventing an poll tax where you had in florida, when amendment for cancer, re- enfranchised who had felony convictions and you have the courts rule part of state legislature came through and said, they were scared about the ballot initiativee coming throuh and after have one in the state wrote, in line saying that okay, then you have to pay all fines and fees and restitution is in order for your sentence to be complete by the in the federal courts rule, that is not they poll tax, except that i don't have to pay my income tax to vote and i don't have to pay my property tax to vote but here's a payment that i have to make in

order to be able to about. but even or something out of the horrors of the literacy test where the previous literacy test wasn't things accompany bubbles in a bar of soap and how high is up and here come the court ruled that florida does not have to tell the folks, how much they owe and so florida can require that you make payment but the florida sort have to tell you how much a payment has to be. >> text message, hi doctor anderson, mama's pastor la brown, from springfield, missouri. my question is, what would you believe is a more important message the ministers should speak to an art world today. >> i love the question the messages what i'm hearing from reverend william barber that

this is a god and jesus of all of us we are here to help, all of us that we have to heal the sick and we have to feed the hungry we have to close and we have to do that work that there is a greater humanity at stake here and when we in fact use one of the things that i say, that part of the question we earlier received about the role of white evangelical christianity is thav this is right talk about the folks putting their hands on god and using the power of god to vote for their own agenda and instead of letting god put their hands on them. and then moving in that way for a better world.

for a safer any kind or the much more humane world. that i thank you so most powerfulth message and getting r folks out there andst register o vote in getting them to the polls because the political round is so important in terms of being able to create much kinderer better america. >> the scope is loop las vegas, with authory neuron carol innocent. >> you guys are knocking me out and have loved every thing that i have heard and is just amazing and think you for taking my call. i grew up in los angeles, i grew up with 171, and a group of kids with never heard of john hope franklin. and myt earliest memory was cout hearings what i didn't know what they were not just for my grandfather my father praying because of what joel wash was

saying and then i remember my mother, going nuts louis armstrong hot out like and said, you've got to do something like, send the airborne. as time went on i realized man, i'm old and i am still hearing the same stories s and the same battles and is like the guy that was you know, reading a setting is that wheeling mall it is year olds of lease agreement we doing and he said, i'm praying for things the middle east and praying for people to get along and just like here, then 17 different religions and he said most of the guy vicinity of feelings and i feel like i'm beating my head against the wall itself now 60 years later, and i thinking, nothing has really changed except awareness,

knowledge and people knowing about the booksw right now i'm reading again, one of james baldwin'ss great books. which is the finds work in which takes him back to the 30s and looking have been under bette davis eyes and seeing himself because he had popeyes as well and now here we are we still judge people by their looks beautiful they are or how they are and yet, we still have this other thing going andnd when i s ten or 11. >> we are going to leave it there and see if professor anderson has anything that sheo would like to add to that. >> and so part of the avoid oppression and voter suppression and is the design to do is to make you think that there is no hope, that is always going to be this and it's always been this is never going to get any better our father to beat my head up against the wall.

the thing is that it is end and the reason why we- are still in this struggle, is because we are still fighting and we are still fighting and oppressive force and becausese we refuse to give up, we refused to accept a subjugation. that is so important we refused to see, ced our power because it isis in that fight and in that struggle. we continue to move forward and we continue to be w able to cree knowledge and we continue to be able to protect our community and when we don't strongly think well of the stuff is just messed up, then all of our protections are dissolved. that is why we fight. that is why we have to know what the game is.

>> text message please ask doctor anderson if she is familiar with the work of hazard wantt to has taught it yell law school in his book, more guns and less crime. >> i am vaguely familiar with john lott and john mott is one of the heroes of the kind of second amendment school of individual rights and of guns and guns everywhere can reveal and ofsa being against the gun safety regulations and as i had mentioned earlier, i've not been pro-gun and anti-gun but what i have been as for reasonable gun safety laws such as there is no reason to have semi automatic weapons in the hands of civilians on our city streets and it just does not make sense. so just being really commonsense

about it and not indoctrinated. selectivity, intensity, text message i agree with what i believe is your critique of our racist and violent society but we have created a collateral parasitic layer of well compensated, commentators and uppers, many of them at the universities any critical foundation of the system, who appear to be neutralized and subsumed officially by the dome of the culture. >> comment. >> okay, i thought i knew where that was headed in that it just disappeared inee another way ani think that part of what you're laying out here is that there are scholars who feed on the kind of deals in american society who provide cover for that. and this is why having freedom

within the university and the of exchange of ideas within the university, are so important because without us is that when you havebe evidence-based of scholarship, nor allowing that evidence-based scholarship to do heavy lifting of democracy and you're able to discernrn the difference between that evidence-based scholarship. in the ideologue. >> when you think about some reports that the academia has been overtaken by the left. [laughter] [laughter] >> i guess you don't agree with us. >> oh lord. i'm sorry. i think that is also part of the smoke and mirrors that is out there that is divine design to

denigrate the incredible work coming out of these colleges and universities in terms of theof scholarship because if you can denigrate that scholarship, then you're able to create aen new truth, truth that is not fact-based and not evidence-based. we see that happening aa lot. so this is by saying the left will die what i have to say when you talk to fox dollars door in the academy, they are not seeing this incredible left that is taken over, they are looking at the kinds of entrenchment of power and working through that in order to do the work typeface call for doctor carol anderson comes from carolyn green for, pennsylvania hi carol. >> hello prayed that i have a question whether any i research has been done to compare with te laws of changes so significantly

over the years the disabled and i am 86 years old and many will turn and i work as a vision therapist were usually also run a program from 60 or 58 just under - 68049 percent black and 51 percent white and have a lot of positive to say about the black community in a local black author has convinced me to write a book in an underwriter but i would love to see morris and research that can prove that laws can change people's lives and i don't think there's been anything done in the comparison between race and the disabled. that i c could find and i'm very interested in your opinion onst that and also i would like to ask god to met carol, i apologize we were going to leave it at the first question,

there's a lot there lausd doctor anderson has a response for you. >> and think you forre calling . >> the role of disability law aand disability policies, are absolutely essential and is one ofof the key movements forward o me this nation much more humane that's opium seeking the way the race works in those disability policies, is also essential and there is work done and i've seen some of it i cannot recall the s off of the top of my head right now basically, doing library searches like a world cap search. in a certain your local library. putting the books that are there and building and if you have access, to university library so you can see the articles that have been created and produced this doing this work and that will give you kind of foundation

that you need to see what is out there and where your intervention would be really important. >> one nita, cincinnati, good afternoon. >> hi, hi how are you, face to be a librarian at a local school pen she should also should try section of the library. [inaudible]. the african-american front they can help you with that and also, the national library of medicine in maryland but the reason i called is because i like doctor henderson, i'm 71 and. [inaudible]. and rogerson grow up with mr. rogers when i was a little girlro and basically we really d hundreds of my uncle josh my father was - over the years.

[inaudible]. and really fbi twice so i know this one so my question to doctor anderson is we were taken aback by the comment you made earlier and i'm not angry, i didn't know anything about the bicolor drinking like that i was wondering of wanted to explain. [inaudible]. in my sorority, how can we talk of young people to them no that this is not history, this life is that we live. my parents and grandparents touch was like his living situation we tell our young people, such as you, this is continuing and thank you as really wonderful to see you by thankan you. >> thank you and so, the question is how do we, we are

consistently stunned by the lack of knowledge about tulsa and about you know so many folks that until they saw washington, they didn't even know the tulsa happened and who know about like teaching the civil rights movement, so not my class going coming you know, how many of you have basically heard the civil rights movement but it isn't process that down and martin set up and a dream and we all overcame. so when you get that incredible movement, reduced to rosen and martin overcome, then what we lose is the massive local organizing that happened to me the movement happened and so when we don't have history we have the sense that this should happen quickly, and it all you have to have as a leader, no, it

takes a lot of folks a lot of hours and a lot of commitment and so it is knowing that history and so how do we do this. so one of the things is that i do have on the emory website, basic five minute history called the hidden history of civil rights were have provided it in those soundbites that allow the teacher to be able to use that in their classroom as a foundation for greater discretion for greater knowledge.r also there's incredible websites that are other than older airmen institute, i am blinking right now come thets civil rights movement veteran website. they have the documents and then narratives that really can provide access to the knowledge that is what we really have to begin facing history and facing

ourselves.ve those entities have provided a much broader access to this history that helps us understand this is one of the things about one person now found in wide range and the second is that, italian and where wee are now, with what happened then so that we can see the through line and we canth see that was a faulkne, the past is the past, and is not over sunning the past and that line about something like that in thelo pat is still with us and we are still living at. >> a tweet from stuart, your books are essential to understanding the need for a complete history, after the backlash against nicole hannah jones, 6019 project, do you know of an organized effort by the academic community to preserve our un- diluted u.s. history.

>> ... so what i see is , through the american historical association, through the american -- the association for the study of african-american life and history, i am seeing that those organizations are really doing the work of ensuring that our history is taught, that it is preserved. >> and the original artifacts are still there. so we can see them so we have the stuart rose library and then there we have the papers and we havee the science, the

street signs from resurrection city which was the poor people's campaign in 1968 continuing after the assassination ofio mlk. you see archives in historicalth organizations doing this work but it behooves all of us when you have theth school board flooded sometimes and have children in the schools but it behooves us to pay attention and to participate in the process and the backlash from teaching divisive history is in fact being pushed back to say we must know the history but if we keep telling lives

about one —- lies about ourselves. host: about 15 minutes left. >>caller: i want to say the show is excellent and the professor is very good. i own - - just agree with almost everything that she says, but my question is, can she explain why murder in the black communities is so out of control? is that a white issue or a black issue? host: before we let you go why do you disagree with professor anderson?

>> i'm on the right i guess some of the things i hear i disagree with. host: do you consider yourself to be racist? >>caller: i never have. that being said somebody may say that i was but i don't believe i have. host: thank you. >> i thought the framing of the question was quintessential. why do we have all of this murder happening in the black community? remember said 80 percent of african-americans are killed byri african-americans? 80 percent of whites are killed by white to put all of crime is that is the

narrative of anti- blackness that i laid out. because what it is saying they are criminall so that as the white community we must have protection against the source instabilitye watching what happens when the schools are devalued and defunded what happens when jobs go away? what happens when the massive just termination if you have a name the qualifications are the same as someone who does not have the identifiable

name. and jennifer jones equal qualifications and then to send in multiple, multiple resumes and letters to get the interviewes opposed to jennifer jones because of the inherent racial discrimination so when we are looking at the bias in american society at limit access to jobs and housing we have incredible studies of what that means in terms of discrimination of housing the discrimination andnd healthcare and policing and all of this talk about black folks killing black folks not whites who

killed whites in the structural inequality then we are not asking for a real answer but thete soundbite answer. host: what do you think of him saying i love the show and i disagree with everything that you say? i saw you smile. >> i smiled because i have had that before. and i am great. come with the evidence. come with thect facts. , with the valid research studies.no this is the undermining of academia. because it undermines the rigors and how you feel on par

with that and how i feel to become part of policy instead of the rigors of the work. host: tallahassee florida go ahead. >>caller: good afternoon. thank you doctor anderson for your work. and then to address what appears to be in with those populations in the country that are nonwhite into taiwan are to perpetuate stereotypes against the black race and if there is any income that you can make towards that if you

have a book that addresses how we as a people want to be better positioned and an impact on the economy. >> and two different books how the irish became white. when the irish came they were treated horrifically. bottom of the barrel. what they begin to learn in americaner society is it is anti- blackness. talk about the piling on sorry

i cannot remember the author's name but japanese americans and chinese-americans became the model minority. and that happened in the 1960s. while you have the civil rights movement happening, the forced to say america must become america, then you have a backlash putting up asian americans as a model minority asth opposed to the black full. and what she lays out is that how you go from the chinese exclusion act and hate it when mybr brain fries like that. with the internment of the japanese and in the 19 forties, how do we go from

that? in the bay on —- the venerable asian immigration of the national origins act going from that policy to model minority in the 1960s? asian americans went from not white to being not black in the 1960s when having the black power movement. so that type of linguistic turn believes in family asians believe in education they believe in hard work they are not looking for a government handout. so you get these kinds of tropes attaching to model minority as a way to help create the fishers in communities of color.

but one of the things we are seeing as powerful as that is like an old british colonialism like divide and conquer. and we are all in this together. we all work together you see this with the coalition of workers down in florida with tomato growers and in this organization you see any human rights frame african-americans and latinos, asian, americans white all working together to improve the quality of life and the working conditions so when folks try then we say no.

and then to go back to reverendve william barbour the movement his he is created multi- religious and multiethnic that is where the powerer lies. host: from the us virgin islands go ahead. >>caller: and with then 1900 through 1970s and so to talk about bourgeoisie radical thought the naacp dropped the bomb in the work in their time

that when you explain the work they have done for people of color inside the us it gave a perspective that currently inhi my opinion in the efforts to be able to affect real change for people in america. host: we will leave it there but i want to ask you is your research professional or personal? >> personal right now. i wish i had a teacher right here on —- her at the time when i went. host: thank you for calling. >> that is a little too vague for me to be specific because i really focused on the 19 forties and taking us through

the 1960s. the focus of my work looks that the naacp the civil rights congress. so those were the organizations following through to the american committee on africa. seeing this organization to deploy their strengths and that is essential for me to lay out how the decolonization works. host: is there another book in the works? >> there's one in my head. host: you want to share and we will do group therapy? >> what i am thinking about is a book i entitled the ties

that bind in silence african-american response to political violence in haiti and congo and nigeria. in my initial research, one of the things i found let me give you a broader concept. what i am intrigued by to protect the people what are the forces that create that and what are the forces that create them to move so in haiti and in congo looking at five different organizations five liberal organizations and i'm not seeing them really engage with the violence raining down in 80 and congo. why cracks they have been so

involved in providing resources and fighting for the nations. and for those. host: where did you get that idea? it's me being stunned at the silent at the same time a haiti is directing in the violence. very little but what i am seeing with the violence and the massacre from sharpeville. with the protection of black full.

and then see them getting engaged the civil war in nigeria. so while in the same decade what is it that changes causing the level of engagement i did not see in the first two? host: author and professor carol anderson three of her most recent books include white rage. one person, no vote. in the most recent is the second. thank you for your time. >> thank you so much, peter. it was wonderful.