the presbyterian minister's books include america, the farewell tour, hourglass, trauma and transformation in an american prison and most recently, the greatest evil is war. join in conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts antwts. "in depth" with chris hedges live sunday, january 1st, noon eastern on booktv on c-span2. weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story and on sunday, booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 comes from the use television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for empowerment, that is why charter has invested billions building infrastructure,

upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communitie big and small, charter is connecting us. >> charter communications along with these television companies supports c-span2 as a public service. >> hi, everyone. i'm emily stanley, senior director of develop here. on behalf of our partner politics and prose thank you for being with us tonight and supporting a nonprofit and independent bookstore. we also want to thank you for your understanding the need of making tonight's program a virtual format addicts press how much we appreciate you being here with us. for those who may be new, we are a center for arts, entertainment, ideas and jewish life in washington dc. past 18 years our mission has been to inspire more meaningful and fulfilling lives there were unexpected mix of experiences that embrace the multifaceted identity of those

who serve. it is rare to hear from someone who has witnessed and participated as much history as our guest this evening, doctor henry kissinger. in 1938 at 15 years old he fled nazi germany with his family and just 5 years later was drafted into the u.s. army. he would go on to become national security advisor and secretary of state under presidents nixon and ford. a recipient of a bronze star, the nobel peace prize, the president shall medal of freedom and the medal of liberty, doctor kissinger joins us this evening soon after reaching the milestone of turning 99 years old. he recently released his 19th book, leadership, 6 studies in world strategy which quickly became a new york times bestseller. the book draws on doctor kissinger's firsthand

experience from each of the 6 leaders he profiles and his insight through participating in many of the events he describes. as a reflection on world order, statecraft and the indispensably of leadership today, the book adds to a vast collection of doctor kissinger's scholarship on foreign policy, international affairs and diplomacy. tonight, doctor kissinger will be intc conversation with andr mitchell and nbc news chief washington correspondentco and chief foreign affairs correspondent of andrea mitchell reports. she joined nbc news in 1978 it in the ensuing decade, award-winning reporting as covered president shall politics since the carter administration and consequential news across congress, foreign policy,l intelligence and national security issues. we are delighted to have her with us tonight.

we are including a link to purchase signed copies of leadership in the chat box. make sure you check that out. thank you again for joining us, me welcome help doctor henry kissinger and andrea mitchell into your home. >> good evening. thank you, what a privilege it is because i have the honor of being with henry kissinger. doctor kissinger. ive can't tell you how honored am. at the young age of 95, you produced your 19th book, leadership:6 strategies, a primer on statecraft, thankei u for being with us tonight from new york. >> of thrilled to have a chance to exchange ideas with you, as

we have for quite a long period, to my benefit, and substantively and unity. >> it is always our benefit to hear you and to read your books and i want to draw on your insights about leadership, to better understand the events of the day as we gather tonight. president bidenda had a marath call with xi jinping today lasting more than 2 hours in fact, the church in several months. the tension between our countries, with the perspective of speaker of theon house and e congressionalai delegation, th great distress of beijing and taiwan and a warning by the chinese foreign minister to our secretary of state this should

not be taking place. you notes china so well having engineered the dramatic breakthrough with the united states to china and written on china in 2011. tell me about the importance of this moment and what you think about the possibility of speaker of the house going to taiwan? >> it is a moment in which the third person in line for the american presidency has indicated she might visit taiwan and the chinese have issued explicit threat with a military component if she carries this out.

this is a sad situation the relationship between china and the united states is being based on military threats and particularly at a moment when we are in military confrontation with russia and in two military confrontations with two major allies in two major countries simultaneously is not an ideal pattern for diplomacy. we need to reflect on how to transcend such a situation.

i support the carrying out -- we could not call off a visit by senior american official. on the basis of a military threat from the chinese side, but we should not be in this position. >> the chinese leader xiem s xinping said to president biden, this is the statement of the foreign ministry, those playing with fire will perish by it. that is a very strong statement. >> guest: a strong statement and if the threat is carried out between the two most advanced technological countries in the world

possessing weapons for which there is no experience in their use and inherently difficult if not impossible to limit, i would hope the two leaders will learn from this experience some form of dialogue which creates conditions in which whatever disagreement we have, we deal with it on the basis of diplomacy. and not military threat. >> reporter: do you think president biden has contributed to the current tensions by three times, most recently in may saying the us would defend taiwan militarily? which is a departure from 40

years of strategic ambiguity of arming taiwan, gaining allies in taiwan but never saying explicitly that we would go to war to defend taiwan? >> the united states and my observation has always made clear, the taiwan issue, it would oppose or reject, i think the shift towards a confrontation of diplomacy with china goes back to previous administrations.

has been accelerated by this administration. i want to make clear, fundamental american national interest that we will defend against an event, technological country, the goal of diplomacy should be to create a situation, under these conditions does not resort by either side. >> reporter: the president's declarations from when xi xinping is approaching the party congress, and china facing considerable challenges, the covid lockdown policy, economic slowdown, youth unemployment, how do you see xi

xinping is a leader going to this congress? >> fundamental governmental velocity of china and the united states are different. we are a democracy, china is a essentially autocratic system that operates by different principles, more importantly, the story background of the 2 countries is different. the united states by historic standards by a few hundred years, china has a history of 4000 years, china considers

itself sort of the center of asia for thousands of years so here are two countries with different -- confronting each other on the basis of their very experience in an entirely new situation and how to manage since it is inevitable withoutp threatening world order and world peace is a big challenge, a bigger challenge.

president xi is up for reelection at his party congress. they are facing a domestic situation in which they have to explain their actions and have a certain antagonism to the other side. very dangerous and very dangerous situation. >> china has sided with ukraine, with russia over ukraine and that meeting with vladimir putin in february where they signed their agreement so at this stage can china manage to avoid violating

sanctions as it apparently has so far and still support russia? is it possible to drive a wedge between china and russia? >> i believe the ukrainian crisis will need to find a diplomatic solution and will find a diplomatic solution at a measurable time. china and russia, it was a decision that accelerated crazies.n may be a degree of confidence

that was not warranted by the essential forces and what was intended as progress into a war. but sentenced to continue and maybe do it. so i believe it is necessary for the leaders of major countries to consider their interests and their values and find a way by which they can close this without the world being thrown into catastrophe.

in the context of a book i've written it is a place to go into detail and i don't pretend that i know every detail of what is a very complex s situation. in which i basically support what the administration has attempted to do in ukraine. a different view. >> host: you met platter prudent 13 times i think.hi have you known him as well as anyone does, what qualities made him so successful in cementing his power and control? >> i have met putin as an

outsider and once a year for 15 years, to review the international situation and i had discussed what i would say to him. it was -- my view. that he is a special kind of patriotic russian who to a few of the mystic quality of held

the country in 7 time zones, a large number of enemies around it that held it together to face the pressures of its history. and therefore on the other hand also part of the russian tradition that wanted to be linked to europe and the immediate issues he considered the collapse of the soviet empire as a historic disaster for russia. and he considered ukraine the anchor for it.

the goal during the collapse, the whole area east of it became open to strategic actions of the surrounding countries. he considered it from his point of view that ukraine the largest of these countries would join a military alliance heto would consider hostile an but up to the recent crisis i thought he was a rational calculator and the idea that he would attack ukraine over some territorial issue, over its

existence set the nature of the european system, the nature of the nato alliance. and so he started a country of a magnitude i would not have thought, possible or likely and noticed that none -- no commentator with intelligence that would have indicated the view that it was a mistake to try to build ukraine into nato and the independence of ukraine into the structure of europe, therefore i agree with the

attempt to support it with military assistance like the taiwan issue. it can be debated but no excuse for putin to attack on the scale he did and remove the subject from the diplomatic field into a military confrontation with the west. >> host: you served in the most, ideally, first you said negotiations should ideally begin in the next 2 months, this was back in may before creates a people and tensions that will not be easily overcome. we have reached the point with

ukraine, the war is grinding e on, ideally the dividing line should be a return to definition should not be about freedom of ukraine but a new war against russia itself. you were saying negotiations to go back to the territory that was held before the invasion. >> the present situation is that russia is occupied 20% of ukrainian territory that is 20% territory beyond where the war started. so there are some territories,

or acquired by russia, so seem to me the most effective cease-fire would be for russia to withdraw to where the war started. it is a tremendous effort and it continues to be, that somewhere along the line when a stalemate develops alternatives should be considered. my personal recommendation would remain the one i made in davo's, the cease-fire, if russia acquires 20% of the ukrainian territory in the

period in this period when nato is united in the united states is supporting ukraine militarily this would be a new and strategic setback for the west. on the other end of course we should remember russia has already suffered a big strategic setback because the fear attack that exterminated much of europe since world war ii, as we anticipated because even fairly large european country with nato support could prevent a russian victory.

a satisfactory resettlement would require russia abandoned territories. >> host: does ukraine have to regain some of the territory recently lost in the black sea region before we can hope to negotiate? getting back to where they started? >> guest: hard to make a comment on diplomacy that hasn't started yet. at some point putin offered a cease-fire or someone else offers a cease-fire and conditions that then exist, are not conditions i would propose

because they represent a new situation based on a setback for nato to the united states which i think should be avoided. >> host: how do you assess volodymyr zelenskyy's leadership? >> extraordinary, phenomenal. actor who became president from a background -- ukrainian the elected president who in an hour of crisis rallied his society and madeat himself int an international spokesman that is accepted worldwide as a

major figure. i think he is an extraordinary, phenomenal, very tough -- in the transition to peace because to find an outcome, needs military conditions, is going to be very -- he has brought a unique role to ukraine. >> host: how do you assess europe's ability, nato's ability to stand solidly behind ukraine as the winter approaches and fuel costs continue to rise and internal issues, the chaos, a new leader

in germany, parliament re-majority, the government collapsed in italy, very challenging time for europe and the uk. >> it is a challenging situation because of what is happening. different from the old situation, we are facing a situation now in which there are crises simultaneously based on different periods and so you find a general move as i hope that one point is going to

require a substantial transitional period and extraordinary period. >> host: you right in your booklet without leadership, institutions are drift and phase irrelevance and disaster. in some ways does that apply to the united states right now? >> guest: every society is in a kind of transition in the past which it knows to a future it is not experienced and the task for leaders is to help guide people in the direction to

fulfill their potentialities. the united states at this moment faces a challenge along these lines because in order to make this transition one has to have faith in one's society and in one's leaders and when our society is extremely divided with different views about the future and indeed about the validity of the views of each side, much of the energies, too much of the energies are consumed in conflict of the parties with each other instead of reconciliations that would

give them the impetus to move towards a better future. the difficulties about the united states today. >> host: richard nixon, one of the leaders you profiled, his leadership on a lot of domestic policies are often overlooked, the environmental protection, law enforcement assistance, a lot of the mystic issues i was covering back then as a local reporter but on foreign policy the extra ordinary leadership on the middle east laying the groundwork for middle east talks and china. is there any way you can understand his resignation in the events that led to his resignation.

all those leadership policies you are part of that you witnessed. >> guest: i missed the name. >> guest: richard nixon. what was suspected. extraordinary successes on foreign policies but we are so much a part of. and his resignation. >> guest: nixon had a strategic success, and a deeply patriotic commitment to american prospects but he had an element of security that made him -- actions he thought were protected and his detractors

could be wrong and it was a tragedy and i can say this because -- it is an example of how nixon -- i had never met nixon when hee appointed me to be advisor, the third most important job. i had never met him. i had been a close personal friend and close cooperated with nelson rockefeller who opposed nixon in two presidential primaries and nixon offered me a position and when i asked rockefeller at

that time, i did not accept it right away. it seemed extremely foolish and wrong because when the presidentwi of the united stat gives responsibilities to you you have an obligation to try to help but at any rate i told nixon i need to talk to rockefeller and rather than dismiss me, he said you can take a week which i didn't take. i went to see rockefeller and rockefeller says has occurred to you richard nixon is taking a much bigger chance on you than you on him?

and that was wonderful advice. i haven't thought of that myself. so i accepted the position. and so whatever i learned about nixon i learned through experience with him.h and i was at his side during all the crises of his administration and i've seen many presidents in the conduct of foreign policy. almost unique. and so the chapter on him i describe some of his weaknesses

and also actions have taken in the interest of the country and the world. >> host: how do you compare his resignation with what we are now learning about donald trump and what he did before and after january 6th. we don't know everything yet, the current investigation. >> guest: i don't really want to get too much into personalities but it is important to remember the watergate crisis which involved a variety, he never challenged -- he accepted the conclusions of the system. there were some people in the

administration who made heroes of themselves by claiming they were preventing him from doing fat. i never saw that. he accepted the system. crushed him and he suffered greatly as a result and also from recognizing that he had made a mistake, that he was wrong in involving himself in what came to be known as the watergate crisis. >> host: back in ar1960, january 6, 1961, he didn't challenge john f. kennedy elections, he stood as vice president and certified the electoral count without objection.t

>> guest: he was afraid such an act would divide the country. >> host: without getting into the personality of donald trump how do you view the question of not accepting the decision of the voters and perpetuating the claim -- >> the american process with it -- 24 election will give an answer to what will happen. >> host: president biden met

criticism with going to saudi arabia and meeting with the crown prince after saying saudi arabia during the campaign he said saudi arabia should be a pariah. a classic conflict between american interests and values -- >> guest: the nato foreign policy, the saudi crown prince was morally wrong, deeply wrong. the challenge to the american president is what relationship he needs to conduct a in the basic interests of the united states. we were in situations like this

during the period i was in office when you were dealing with somebody you would have rather recommended but on the other end the interests of the united states required some adjustment as to navigate this, should definitely be careful what solutions he makes which would complicate what may turn out to be the overriding national interest, but i have sympathy for saudi arabia. and also peace in the middle east.

therefore, i will do things i would not do as a private citizen. where the balance between values and interests which arises inherently out of the fact that values are absent and national interests to some extent to the actual conditions that exist so that is one of the challenges of statesmanship and i thought the leaders are discussed in the book found a good balance. creative balance.

i describe the nixon qualification. >> host: the president made a decision in the last 24 hours to try to do a prisoner swap for the celebrated basketball player brittany griner firm paul whelen, both being held wrongfully in russia and trade someone the kremlin wants back very much, victor boiut and the white house acknowledged russia and other countries will take more americans as hostages. whatto kind of decision is tha to agree to a prisoner swap by the president?

>> guest: it is one of those anguishing decisions. in principle you don't want to establish a situation in which you encourage hostagetaking as a means of extracting concessions. you would not otherwise make. and in the period in which i was in office, the principal view, negotiating over hostages, i don't remember every event now but i wouldn't be surprised if when an actual

case arises, you may not give way to humanitarian feelings about the victim as a first principle. it shouldn't be done. but i would not when faced with the actual situation, compare -- in principle should not be done and in principle one should say we do not engage in hostage negotiations. but i don't know any administration that did not do it at some point.

by substituting humanitarian values. it should not be as a question of principle, it should not be done. and individual cases without knowing. >> host: there are health considerations and the like. a lot of participants, we selected questions that resume tonight. in dc, what possible scenarios do you perceive in the coming weeks in ukraine and can we

expect a negotiated solution? >> if you look at the situation in ukraine now, there are three possible outcomes. one is a russian advance. the other is a ukrainian victory and the third, each have their own complexions. if there's a stalemate, to this statement, set back for the nature, that is the argument i try to make, if the ukrainians,

the russians are defeated, and if ukraine insists on continuing the war until it regains territory before the outbreak, the prospect of escalation on the russian side. so many possibilities now exist but in my view in the next 6 months, issues will crystallize towards one or the other and i would hope that the government

with various allies come to terms of what we consider desirable for the peace of the world and of europe, that we are not driven into decisions in the heat of the moment.ve out to have an option of the best american democratic policy would be. >> host: from mark in new jersey. how do youhi view the change i leadership qualities of brezhnev andnd khrushchev compared to vladimir putin and the populist leaders in today's world? >> a putin

-- >> host: how wouldvi you compa the soviethn leaders, khrushch and brezhnev? >> guest: to entertain this, this society, world war ii, about which there was a belief that it was stronger than they turned out to be but towards the end of that period, i discerned elements of weakness and substance of risks they were learning and therefore. and in the end, so long as

america remains very strong, would like to take finalists, the way putin has, putin staked the credibility of existence. and the movie should have understood to rally europe. so putin was for lectures. and brezhnev turned out to be, in every crisis we had with brezhnev, whenever we made it clear through soviet pressures,

to actual -- equal that. >> host: a graduate student in dc wants to know what are some of the skills and experiences a leader should have to prepare for the future, a heavy chinese presence in the international landscape? >> guest: it is a huge challenge for our society to develop the skills that are needed because historically it is not fully applicable. in the current situation that is so complex and it is

developing automatic capabilities, to understand the impact as policy becomes much more difficult and on the other end, education assistance does not teach history and philosophy to anything like the extent it needs to be characteristic, but if you don't have this, what are you going to give and so the tendency to it. with imitation. and the impossibility of doing this, it is a big challenge for us because it is beyond that.

>> host: a question from berkeley. do you have advice for an undergraduate student interested in a career in leadership and diplomacy? >> somebody to take that position. wasn't prepared for what she said, study history, study history, study history. that history -- history shows you comfortable situations. our leaders thought, that is why i wrote this book, from successful actions of great leaders. >> host: a question from andrea

in bethesda, based on your historic engagement in latin american relations, what prospects do you see for us leadership on democracy and human rights issues in the current state of the region and specifically in regard to brazil, argentina and chile, what do you see as the us role, senator democracy in losos angeles and there was controversy because of the attitudes towards the us..s >> host: latin american countries. >> guest: in my experience, they undergo more dramatic shifts than any other can do and one reason for that is they

are insulated from the power politics. they never have to pay a direct price, the domestic politics is different from european and domestic policy for americans. i must tell you, i have studied it with the same extent as i did european american and asian policy. b so they have the same problem everybody has. .. domestic structure in which people believe but the experiences to

different that they feel they could do to the to use your own would so what they would did to beyond what they would dare to do. >> here's a question about how diplomacy has changed in these recent decades. is diplomacy more data-driven these days? yet this study more about cybersecurity and economics compared to when you are practicing to be secretary of state. >> youou know, when i was secretary of state, i thought life was tough, but i, there was

one big difference, which is that the opposition party which was the democratic party, there was a leader where you go and say national interest requires this, and he wouldn't necessarily do it, but we had dinners between the parties, distinctly of cooperation. and in the meantime, also the education of values have become more focused on -- less conceptual background of the

society. so we have a big task to fix this, how to improve this. but i have great faith in individuals in the country and i have very -- that will find our way through all these disputes. because we are the key to the evolution of the world in a positive direction. >> i think that's a wonderful optimistic note to end our conversation on, but i think everyone participating can continue by reading leadership, six studies in world strategy. and learned a lotou more about e ways of henry kissinger at the young age of 99. we look forward to what you're

going to do next, dr. kissinger. >> thank you very much. by the way, -- [inaudible]d >> it is indeed my pleasure andd i know all of the people who participating really value your vision and your experience. thank you also very much. and and i think amelia has jos to thank everyone and say good night. >> yes. thank you so much to doctor henry kissinger and andrea mitchell for being with us, and to everyone who login for joining us tonight. >> and with great confidence in our caucus i will not seek reelection to democratic leadership in the next congress. >> in november house speaker nancy pelosi announced she was stepping down after two decades in the top leadership spot pick on sunday christmas day we will talk with the journalist susan page wrote a biography of nancy

pelosi and discuss the most memorable moments as party leader using the c-span archives. >> by electing the speaker brought us closer to the ideals of equality that is america's heritage and america's hope. >> this is is in a stork momd i think the leader for acknowledging it. thank you, mr. banta. antenna stork moment for the congress, and the stork moment for the women of america -- mr. boehner. [applause] >> watch our conversation on speaker of the house nancy pelosi's career. sunday at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span and online c-span.org here. >> this week explore the people and events that tell the american story. every day on american history tv on c-span3, and watch our featured program saturday and c-span2 at 40 p.m. eastern look

at holiday hope during the holocaust with u.s. holocaust memorial museum highlighting stories of jewish people who defied the nazi regime to celebrate the holidays amid occupation and the holocaust. at 10:15 p.m. eastern military historian harry labor examined george washington's crossing of the delaware river on christmas day 1776 and the situation of the american revolution that led george washington to make this military gamble and beat the hessians at the battle of "taking back trump's america: why we lost the white house and how we'll win it back." expelling the american story watch american history tv all this week on c-span3 and saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedule under pgram guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> sunday on q&a author and poet xavier discusses his book in which he details the story of his migration from el salvador

to the u.s. at the age of nine traveling through near impossible and treacherous conditions across guatemala, mexico and the sonora desert. >> if i did my job, correctly, is that you will now have a face, a name, at least one or it could be mine, it could be latino, it could be -- you as if the reader, you now know personally know an immigrant. you might already know immigrants but they don't talk about what they went through. by now here's one that is sharing the journey with you, and now hopefully you have more empathy. >> tranfour sunday night at eight eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast on our free c-span now app.

>> middle and high school students it's time to get out your phones and start recording for your chance to win $100,000 in total cash prizes with a grand prize of $5000 i entering c-span's sdentcam video documentary contest. for dishes competition we are asking students to picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress and tell us what your top priority would be and why. create a five to six minute video showing the importance of your issue from opposing and supporting points of view. be bold with your documentary. don't be afraid to take risks you're there still time to get started. the deadline is january 20, 2023. the competition rules and tips on howet started visit our website at studentcam.org. >> host: peter navarro, thanks so much being with us your c-span and booktv. >> guest: it's an honor by the way and a pleasure. i've always been a