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listen to c-span any time. just tell your smart speaker play c-span radio. powered byy cable. .... .... driscoll. i'm the deputy opinion editor for the miami herald. i'm really happy to be here today. welcome to the miami book fair 2022 taking place online and in downtown miami on the wolfson campus of the miami dade college. i've been coming to the book fair myself for years, but as a second generation journalist, i am especially thrilled to introduce these next two journalists and authors. tony dokoupil is a co-host of cbs mornings. he also anchors the uplift on the cbs news streaming network. previously, he was a cbs news he's written about marijuana legalization, digital privacy and the second amendment.

from 2007 to 2013 he was the senior writer at newsweek and the daily beast. he is also the author of the last pirate n: a father and son and the golden age of marijuana in which he documented his father's exploits struggling with marijuana during the 1970s and 80s . katy tur is the author of the book unbelievable, my front proceed to the craziest campaign and history and the recipient of the walter cronkite award for r,excellence in journalism. in rough draft she writes about her volatile california childhood punctuated by forest fires, >> and police cases all seen from 1000 feetin the air . our parents pioneered what became known as helicopter journalism and became famous ae for their coverage of the reginald reginald denny beating and o.j. simpson's notorious run in the white bronco.

she talked about her complicated relationship with her father and charts are passed from local reporter to globetrotting foreign correspondent running from her past . she also opens up about her struggles with burnout and imposter syndrome, or stumbles in the anchor chair and relationship with her husband print rough draft explores the gift of family legacy, examines the roles and responsibilities of the news and asked the question to what extent do we each get to write ourown story ? i'm sure the beginner conversationsare fascinating . katy tur and tony copeland. [applause] >> thank you very much. thankyou amy as well . let's see if the microphone works. so appreciate all youbeing here . people who ctsuspect there

might be bias in journalism i can tell you this, it is accurate in at least one respect. this is my wife. i think she is one of the most naturallygifted broadcasters on television . [applause] i think she is a grateful and stylish writer. i think she has one of the best years and eyes for language and i'm so happy. >> you're going to make mecry . >> and i'm so happy she's written a second memoir under the age of 40 which on would say is self-indulgent. because it brings me back to florida and miami and this book there and this is where i'm from. i was here, love miami bythe way . and we have great memories here as a couple. last time we were here we had just got married. sitting here on the stage.

we had just been married. and there were stories believe it or not even up to i do that we had not shared with one another and they were primarilystories about our own childhood . she had yet to write this book and i got the stories when she wrote this. >> by the way, i came with some baggage, i didn't tell you that. >> so katie, i'll hand it over to you to introduce the bookas you see fit . >> you probably know me from unbelievable and the book i me wrote about the craziest campaign which was my time covering donald trump in 2015 and 2016. and one of the questions i te got after that was to put

politics aside, how did you deal with that, how did you survive the campaign trail with all the vitrioland anger and he would go after me . why didn't you leave? why didn't you go back to london where you are living? why did you choose to keep covering it and one of the answers is it's an incredible news story and i would never give up watching history unfold before your eyes but the other one is there's something deeply familiar about donald trump. it was something i didn't know how to put into words let alone that an answer so when i was looking at writing the second book and what i was going to write about it was the middle of the pandemic that question was lingering in my head. the pandemic it and i thought what am i doing, why am i a journalist aand do i want to be a journalist and i work in cable news. am with making things worse or better and if i'm making things worse what do i have to do to get out of this and all these thoughts were

spinning in my head in the dark place we were all in in the middle of the pandemic wondering what we were going to do with our lives and talking to my husband my mom since this giant box in the mail and inside the box is a hard drive. like, a giant hard drive and it was tso giant because it was filled with all the videotapes my parents shot in their 20+ years in the news business, everyvideo they ever shot and it was filled with doozies .re madonna's wedding to sean penn where she gives the bird to the helicopter, the reginald denny beatings, the o.j. simpson, the northbridge quake, every police pursuit you can imagine and all my childhood videos so we used the news camera like it was a camcorder and every piece of my childhood was documented.

>> there's also the questionable parenting on the hard drive and it arrived i th think christmas time and we sat down after the kids went to bed looking at the tapes and there's all out of order and one of course had fallen into a ravine so there's an aerial rescue and katie and her father her in the back of the helicopter for a while and there's cuts and suddenly her mom and dad are on the ground and the kids are nowhere to be found. we called her mother and we were like what happenedthere, kids were in the helicopter and in the words .oh, we left you with theneighbors , then we came back, they gave you ice cream. >> they knocked on a person's door and said can you watch our kids, we've gotto hike down this ravine . >> it was alternately be laughing and saying look at this wild and crazy thing and you click on another video and itwould be something very dark . so i kind of seized up and i

broke down and i thought the only way to get out of this, to explain to myself why i did 2016 and whether i should keep doing journalism was to figure out where i came from and confront the things i didn't want to confront. it's hard, it's messy, it's complicated, it's also beautiful and joyous and going through it made me realize much i love journalism and the job i'm doing and how important i think it is for t all of us to continue to have hard getting journalists out there who are willing to keep doing the job in the face of all the ugliness that we are currentlyexperiencing . [applause] >> do you want to read an excerpt from the book because the book has layers i would say. if you're interested in tories of journalism and journalism history and also journalism of the moment that t there's also a lot of family

stuff and at the beginning, the first third of the book is. , if you like miami let's introduce you to los angeles in the 90s. and her mother and father built out of nothing a full-fledged video and helicopter journalism operation and it's this american entrepreneurship and it's incredible as a story. >> at one point my dad walked into a helicopter company, 25 years old . he's besides my mother who is pregnant with my brother and there's me and he says i want to lease i helicopter the guy was like what are you talking about and he said cannot be said helicopter and he said you have a cat and my dad said no but i have this business plan and he presented the business plan and said the chief the camera will, 25 months pregnant mother.

and he went into another helicopter company and did it again and managed to get the whole hand over $1 million helicopter. he had no pilots license but you would had so much spot at the time he convinced the los angeles fire department to teach them how to fly and use that license along with my mom to cover news in los angeles and only nobody had done before. there have been a helicopter at a local station in la but they use it t seldom and it was kind of a bit. they said the city is giant. whenever we get to a news event is over. fire the blazes out and you want the flame a car crash, everyone has been or ambulance, there. how do we get there faster so we can see this happening in real-time, we got to do this from the air this is called los angeles news service may change journalism as we know it. this is at first it was for

good. you can see these things happening in real-time. they captured some videotape that health authorities helpful and only they had not been held to account before . there was the chp beating a lifestyle of a group of migrants who had crossed the border rdjust a few miles north of san diego just beating them terribly. and that had never been seen had my parents not been training their camera on it. they could capture, they can hold authorities accountable in a way theyhaven't been held before . this is reality tv so they covered the first live police pursuit. they took, this guy took the los angeles police department on a high-speed pursuit through all of la, upand down freeways .

just wild video of this red cabriolet . so they captured the whole thing in real-time and the ws news director might be one or 92 he said do i cut in to matlock, the station director which got good numbers and show this police pursuit or do i keep p matlock on and he made the decision to cut into matlock and the la was covering it and said itwas a marriage of tragedy and technology .th and it was they called it voyeurism. it was the beginning of the era when you could carry events live and it wasn't just an evening network

broadcast where there would be a 15 second live shot. but there was live coverage where you don't know the time you didn't know who was in the cabriolet, what their motives were . a good guy, abad guy . just of the lawyer. it's ouwithout context and of course you can argue okay, obviously criminal, it's a bad guy but the principle of taking the coverage without any information is the same principle that goes into kiany live political event without any surrounding fact checking . >> you're stealing thethunder of my point . >> i'm a man and i like to explain. >> our pillow conversations are a real joy. so it was reality tv, ratings came in the next day and it slaughtered matlock, people

couldn't get enough of these live pursuits and the news became entertainment. you can draw a straight line to that let's just air without context to the way we cover political realities. where this is important, yes but it's also it needs context. yes, sure but we can't take our eyes off of it. and that's what we suffered from in that time and it's part of how we are dealing with the aftermath of what happened in 2016 and the way that it ate away at trust in journalism and we're trying to now figure out how to work backtowards that trust . it's very easy to lose trust and very difficult to earn it back. >> if i may interject. >> please. >> your right about that big

national story but there's a good personal story about your thrise and your relationship with your father that's very moving. i uremember mickey mantle supposedly had a father who threw baseballs at him until the print until little baby mickey learned to put a hand up. that's how you read a baseball prodigy. her father essentially did that to her . when she was a lelittle tight he would turn on the camera, turn on the microphone and make her recount in live reporter rform what happened during the day. >> there's a video on my instagram of me when i was four years old, maybe even less. i think it was four and my dad has a camera on me and i'm standing up and ilook at

my brother and he says give me a news report . the lady on the news and i look at him again and he says you know like a lady on the radio and it dawned on me and i said there was a fire in san diego. fire broke out and all my friends were there. we went to a party at mcdonald's but it was the beginning of being forced to do these live reports on demand . i think we would be in the car and he would say give me a live report about what's happening on our drive to get pizza. and for a long time it was very fun then as i have to be a teenager it gotto be very annoying . but looking back, it was the best. i mean, the best training fofor the job i do now because i can, i found myself in situations in local news where you get to the story rytwo minutes before the broadcast. because local news was run,

run and they got decimated financially, they just don't have the resources, please watch local news, it's good for everybody but we would get to and read local papers, miami herald. we get to a story two minutes s before they would come to you and say what's going on and look around, let me tell you about what's going on . itwas just observational . a lot of journalism is observational, painting a picture, telling a story and building a narrative where you are so there's a lot of there's also a lot of humor, should i read the part about the vice president? >> please read this part. so much of her identity is tied to being a journalist. she is compassionate journalist and we become a mother, parents, a wife, all these otheridentities . those identities collided in this anecdote.e.

>> i had just given birth to my first son teddy and it was as anybody who's gone through birth it's a traumatic experience which you're not really prepared for and if you don't understand what's happening and mine ended in an emergency c-section and the aftermath of that was a lot. and so i just gotten help, this was four days after, fivedays after i just got back down in the bathroom . and i'm working up the courage tolook down . and what had happened to me and i have my phone in my hand, i'll start reading. it's chapter 16. it's, right after we arrived my phone rang. i was trying to get a moment alone, breathing deeply and working up the courage to look down at the mesh hospital briefs i had pulled around my knees i knew it was

going to beugly. i wasn't sure i wanted to know how ugly i didn't even know my phone was in my hand and still it started toflash and buzz . i don't know why i looked at it except for the distraction . i was looking for any reason on earth not to look down even though it was a 415 number, san francisco area code, acity where i know nobody, ipicked up . hello i said . katie, the voice on the other side found it exciting for me like i was about to be presented with checks every week for the rest of my life . yes, i said. the voice was iconic even then it way through the campaign for president. it was the voice of democratic candidate for the white house and senator from california the voice of the current vice president of the unitedstates , the voice of, like harris but it wasn't really her or was i still hallucinating ? i also hallucinated at the hospital, it was fun to have a psych ward show up and say are you okay ? it took me a second to register that might be

happening. i was groggy, half drunk, self pitying and the voice saying of the name i can announce her on a daytime talk show. i imagine oprah, arms stretched out, head tilted back. is this a joke? someone is pricking me. hello i said. i heard you had a baby. i just wanted to call and say congratulations. her voice was alive. it jumped out of the phone anddanced around me like a technicolor rainbow . it'sreally her . yeah i said, still unable to do more than match the energy of us sulking 12-year-old, i did. >> house lady, how are you. >> i looked down. inside the brief was on that of gauze folded up like an origami paper. a catchall for what was still pulling out of my uterus, ladies, you know.

you think that when you push a baby out you push everything out or if you have a c-section like i did they just mop it up before they sell you back up. not so different from the dentist after they removed the tooth but no. your body spent 10 months building a home for another life and it takes a week for that whole dislodging pieces and slide down a swollen mississippi of bodily fluids. six weeks at least i'm sorry gentlemen. i'm so sorry. but most of you are married and you get. >> i forgot this was in there . i'm sorry i recommended it. >> they do tell you this at a doctor's visit or you read about it in some book with a contented goddess on the cover but nothing readiesyou for what comes out . they say it's like a heavy period. that is being cute about rent what comes out is not cute.

there will be blood, there will be tissue, there will be cloth d, golf ball size for normal, baseball sized or not. i thought about telling vice president harris the truth, making a joke of it all, telling her what happened to be in the middle of doing and maybe that would have been the right move but my professional filter kicked in and it suddenly occurred to me this was a work call i've been covering this person one way or another. i would be covering this person one way or another once i got back to work so i decided maybe i don't tell her about that very movie in my pants. maybe i keep it upbeat. build a bridge, make a connection, be human t, the kind of human chill agreed to sit down to an interview with during thecampaign or if it gets to that point the white house the nice , but the reporter. i'm good. i said, trying to find a spare barrel of excitement.

teddy is good, we just got back from the hospital. i felt i opened the door but instead of running through it i banged my head against the door frame. i was so flat, i was lifeless, i was morse code to her technicolor rainbow . she must've noticed it because she begged off the call quickly. okay, just wanted to say congratulations, good luck, talk soon. >> and have you ever interviewed kamala harris as vice president ? >> i wonder why's i've got to send her the book and say excuse me, can we talk about what was going on and let's talk about paid parental leave while we're at it. [applause] i immediately realized i had failed a test my mother would have passed. she would have realized while you might be taking some time off from the news business, the news business is never

taking time off from you. i was also failing on the frontier my father would d somehow have conquered. my father was never stopping to find rules andregulations, risking life and limb . i wasn't going to be taking teddy up in a helicopter but perhaps i should have been shooting video for social media above the neck anyway. anything to keep me connected to the world as a journalist but i was out of ideas and out of energy and simply hung up and sat there for a while longer or singmyself to look down . [applause] >> the other part of this book i found useful to write down and also i think it's worthwhile of a deeper conversation is the way that we cover big events and that's not just the rallies but the way y we cover important news events and what we can do better as journalists.

i know you guys have a lot of opinions about this s. i'd love to hear them. in the book i talk about right before i go on maternity leave, it is the end of the molar investigation, the first special counsel now that we have a second special counsel investigatingdonald trump . so i had covered trump since the beginning and this felt like the end of something very big and i wanted to be around thto know the outcome. and i'm 10 months pregnant, i'm huge and we get an announcement that bill lara will release a summary over the weekend and just prepare for it, it's going to be the results of the molar investigation. and i look a, i barged into my boss's office and said you've got to put me on the air over the weekend. give me any timeslot, we don't know when it's going to come out but they gave me a few hours in the afternoon each day and it happened on sunday the summary came out we got a warning about

starting with a heads up so we camped up to the news and get the summary itself which is a four-page statement with one half direct quote from the actual report. and as you know the statement was deeply misleading, it was a political statement but that's all we had to go on so this is me on live television n reading the statement without context again, without any of the e underlying, the context is obviously the investigation on uncovering but without the evidence in the underlying report, all we had me and every other news organization was this political statement from a political appointee summarizing what an investigation said we didn't know it was misleading until three weekslater when the report came out . the question is, we gave this document the runway to paint

a picture about the investigation that was not true . to give the white house this win that they didn't earn and it was bad for the public i. it was bad for the country but what do you do in that situation ? we caught ourselves in this 24 hour news cycle, both on cable news but also on social media and in newspapers, these live blogs to get you up to speed on what's happening minute by minute. what do we do this is the conversation you and i have a lot because in the moment, there was no other choice but to go with it life because everybody else was going with it live. we could all decide to say we're not going to cover something until we know more about it . but then fox news or breitbart or whatever gateway pundit whatever will say that they're not covering this cause it's good for the so president so you're caught in in this rock and a hard place to

use a back clichc. with not being good for the public discourse but also not having a choice to do it any differently. so we're in this moment right now where we need the public's buy-in and the public's critical thinking and critical eye in order to navigate this very complicated information atmosphere we live in. with social media and with 24 hour news with our politicians ability to circumvent that. it's just a difficult. and we're all trying to figure out how to do it better and so my question to you guys is do you know a better way to do this? the floor is open for questions and if you have one u , i would love to hear it. took that out of your hands.

>> very good. >> wise choice s. >> i don't know if i have any answer. i could just add to the complications. the new york post put down at the bottom of the front page after the announcement florida man makes an announcement, page 26. and i read part of that article which was just one little column on the left of page 26. they talked about his we don't know about his cholesterol level. they described him as a man who plays golf a lot. and that was basically. >> it was a very short blurb. >> so comparing that to what the press gave trump all that billions of dollars of free airtime so the question is

where do you feel you need to reside in that full spectrum. >> i think that was in, it's news that the formerpresident is running again , 100 percent 'that is something that needs to be covered but it needs to be covered in context and the way we were able to do in 2016because we didn't have the foresight . we didn't have the foresight. we can now say donald trump was twice impeached former president who is currently under investigation by the running the doj is for president again and then we cacan say that we can talk about what the news value that comes or the news out of not necessarily everything he says, a fox news cut away and then we talk about this field of republicans who are either in or out and what lawmakers are doing, the way they are reacting tolyit, but the donors

are doing, the way they are reacting .e what the press is doing, the way they are reacting to it. it's something that's worthwhile also talking about what it means for us and how the republican party democratic party legislates together going forward. what sort of hearings, how does mccarthy navigate. there are all these questions that affect everyone else because they are the people in charge of legislation and the money that we get as a country and the laws that are made, but we don't go and just cover it's wall-to-wall. for the sake of having iton the screen . >> thank you. >> my name is roberto velez, i want to say you guys are a couples goal. thank you. as someone who works in corporate media, how do you view the rise of popularity in independent on online media not just on the right wing, have one american news

but also from the left wing, they have midori report, secular talk. do you people view them as a threat, do you view them as welcoming, the more media the better. >> i think corporate media has a certain implication. i don't consider myself working for a big corporation in the sense that it's misdirecting anything i sayor any stories i cover . and i think that's kind of it's misleading. pepeople think comcast is coming in and katie's going to cover this or not cover that that's not the case i think that independent news outlets do a wonderful job and like pro-public does incredible journalism and the more the merrier in that respect. >> anybody who can interest

the public in current events i think is doing god's work so whether you're coming from the left or right that entry point becomes interested in who's electedand what they're trying to do more power to them . >> all media is good, independent, corporate whatever. make sure that you understand all they do their journalism. how they source, what are the rules eior sourcing information, but are there rules for fact checking, how their accountable e. >> the other thing important to understand about smaller, more opinion driven news outlets on the left and right is they are only able to exist because of larger, denigrated as media: start funding actual recording in difficult places on campaigns, in war zones disaster zones finding things out and that includes in a huge way newspapers and print media. the associated press, reuters, all the other big papers so i would, if i had

to choose a world where one of them went away the guy or the little guy i would choose the little guys that i like living in a world where both exists because i think the feed one another . >> one of the things, the point of corporate media, yes it's a moneymaking enterprise but because it's a moneymaking enterprise it's mission, its goal like cvs or nbc is the broadest possible audience and i think there is virtue in having a news source that is attempting, succeeding or failing some days or others attempting to reach this spectrum as opposed to thisor that spectrum . [applause] >> the best thing about the last two years as we haven't had to listen to unfiltered from on and on on national news and then last night i stumbled upon nbc's streaming

and they had trump on from conservative dinner inmorrow lago . where they gave him like 10 minutes to thank all the people that he supported, who supported him and cut away and said we'll come back because we are only interested in hearing what he has to say about the special prosecution so they back in and he did talk about then appointing the special prosecutor and went on and on about how persecuted he has been and how he is given 11,000 pages of documentation , they have everything on him . i finally had to turn it off because it was only on for too long unfiltered so i think we're back. and that's upsetting. >> i wondered if that was a question.

>> i'm all for community meeting styles. statements or questions is fine s. >> i'll ask the question, i want to make a statement. this is not meant to be got a question but the most important thing i've been listening to is keith olbermann's podcast. i'm not going to say anything to your situation, what do you think of his podcast?te >> i haven't listened to it. >> i haven't listened to it but there's a keith olbermann anecdote in the book. >> i think everybody's great. >> my name is paul johnson and i was in the media 25 years ago, senior producer and i got out of that business and now i'm a us attorney . you asked how to use all or what are some suggestions

moving forward. i don't know if there is. i'm not a defeatist but how do you compete with social media that is not there to inform, it's there to get you back like the old batman. same that channel, same that time and i don't know how you do it. it can't be like mcneil lehrer, no one's going to watch . >> of it is first of all, let's all ofpour one out for twitter. i think part of it and i have these conversations recently but it's just where we think the other person we're talking to is coming from. if they say something we don't agree with or we find offensive or isn't in line with what is acceptable today . or if you want to stay accurate, assuming the person, i think there is a knee-jerk reaction to assume the person is a bad actor or

is angry or mean or trying to do something nefarious. and i'm not talking about politicians, i'm talking about every day. your neighbors, your friends, your relatives. it would be good for all of us to assume the person you're speaking to or if you're speaking to them on social media is not a bad person . is maybe somebody you need to have a more calm conversation with to understand where they're coming from and you can tell n'them where you're coming from and have a dialogue that we haven't been able to have because everybody believes the person they're speaking with is the devil. since we're not, we're all americans trying to make the country as good as it possibly can be and we're all dealing with a lot of everyday junk in our lives. and we all are getting information from now different sources, some of it reliable and some of it not reliable. but it's rworthwhile trying to find common ground and trying

to find a way to each other again. i think it's great twitter is falling apart. i mean, twitter's been good for a lot of things. [applause] it's enabled a lot of people e to come together and to push back against violence regimes. it's opened the world up to a dialogue but it's also more recently been very angry and mean and divisive. and so my advice to everybody would'be to log off if you haven'talready . log off they spoke. maybe if you goon us to grab , just pictures of dogs and cats, baby photos and instead if ayou're getting into a conversation with somebodytry not to assume there on that person . try to talk tothem . >> and if somebody were to deliver a news program that is substantive but maybe a little boring or dry, maybe it's good for you?

in the uk the vdc is quite boring and they have a culture of the news is br vegetables there and we don't have culture of the news aspects. we have a culture of the news as bright and shiny and if you look away is going you're going to miss the most exciting thing. i wish as a person who worked in journalism it was a little bit more ... less entertainment and more miami-dade college it's an education . >>. [applause] >> thank you all. that was a wonderful conversation, another round of applause forour authors . [applause] that concludes the session and the next session willbegin in a few minutes . thank you. >> weekends are an intellectual feast.

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