working around-the-clock so that it's a little easie to do yours.

>> .. especially thrilled to introduce east next to journalists and authors. tony is a cohost of cbs morning's company also anchors the uplift, on the cbs news streaming network. recently he's a cbs news correspondent cbs news sunday morning contributor. as a correspondent for cbs news he's written around mayor juana legalization, digital privacy and the second amendment. from 2007 -- 2013 was a senior writer at newsweek and the daily beat. he's also the author of the last

pirate, a father's golden age of marijuana. a memoir in which a document is fathers exploit, smuggling marijuana during 1970s and 80s. katy is the anchor msnbc or katy teacher reports for the author of the newark times bestseller unbelievable by front receipt to the craziest campaign in american history under under which she is talking about left back there sipping 2017 walter cronkite award for excellence in journalism. rough draft a memoir she rights rhetoric central volatile california childhood punctuated by forest fires earthquakes police chases all must be in the air. hers parents pioneered what wod become known as helicopter journalism. became fair to the areal coverage of events at the original denny beatings in 1992 l.a. riots, o.j. simpson's notorious run in the white bronco. talks about a couple k relationship with her father she

charts her own path from local reporter to globetrotting correspondent running from her path which he also opens up about her struggles with a burnout and imposter syndrome or stumbles in the anchor chair, and her relationship with her husband. rough draft exports a gift in cursive family legacy. examines the roles and responsibilities of the news and asked the question to whatr extent do we each get to write our own story? i'm sure the dinner conversations are fascinating. katiee and tony dokoupil. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you very much amy as well. so, appreciate all of you being here. people whoat suspect there might be biased in journalism i can tell you it is one 100% accurate

at least in one respect. this is my wife. [laughter] i think she is one of the most naturally gifted broadcasters on television. [applause] i think she is a graceful and stylish writer. i think she has one of the best ears and eyes for language. and i am m so happy i'm so happy she's written a second memoir under the age of 40 which some would say is self-indulgent. [laughter] because it brings me back to florida into miami and this book fair and this is where i am from. i was here until the age of 10. leavitt miami, chicago bay. and we have great memories here as a couple. last time we were here we just got married but. >> lesson we're sitting here. >> on the stage. we had just been married.

and there were stories believe it or not, even up to i do we had not shared with one another per they were primarily stories about our own childhoods. it's all over a book i i had written. she had yet to write this book. i got the story along with all of you when she wrote this. >> out by the way i might have come with some baggage i did not tell you about. [laughter] asked katy ise will hand it over to you to introduce the book as you see fit. but you probably know me from unbelievable in the book i wrote about the craziest campaign which was my time covering lyndon johnson. [laughter] covenant donald trump 2015 and 2016. one of the big questions i got after that was putting politics aside how did you deal with that question for cottages to divide the trail with the vitriol and the anger, why didn't she leave?

why didn't you go back to london where you're living? why did you stay on and choose to keep covering it? one of the answers is its incredible news story how could you ever give up covering watching history unfold before yourur eyes. but the other one is there something deeply familiar about donald d trump. and it was something that i really did not know how to put into words let alone get that in an answer. i was looking at writing the second book in what i was going to write about, it was the middle of the pandemic. that question was linger in my head. and the pandemic hit and i thought what am i doing? why was i a journalist question what do i really want to be a journalist? i work in cable news, am i making things worse or making things better? things worseng don't have a duty to get out of this? all these thoughts were spinning in my head this very dark place we werer all in the middle of e

pandemic when the globe are going to do theiri' lives. i'm talking to my husband, my mom sends this giant box in the mail. inside the box was about the size of a microarray. inside the box was a hard drive like a giant hard drive. it was so enjoy it was filled with all the videotaped my parentage shot in their 20 years in the news business every news story they shot several doozies. madonna's wedding tashawn penn where she gets the bird to the helicopter. that writes the o.j. simpson chaise, all the aftermath of the northridge quake every police pursuit you can imagine. and also all of my childhood videos. the use the news camera like it was a camcorder. every piece of my childhood was documented. there's some questionable parenting on the hard drive. it arrived i think it was

christmas time we sat down after the kids went to bed and we were looking at thewa tapes they are all out of order. there is one where a horse had fallen into a ravine's there is an aerial rescue. katy and her f brother are the back of the helicopter for a while. then there is a cut suddenly her mom and dad are on the ground and the kids are nowhere to be found. we called her mother we said what happened there, the kids were the helicopter they weren't preshow we left you with one of theba neighbors. we put you on the hill, elected to give you ice cream for a quick steak dock audit ran a person's door on a cliff and said can you watch our kids for a few minutes of got hiked on this ravine. [laughter] so yes i was showing tony it was alternately laughing and saying a look at this wild and crazy thing. then you click on another video would be something very dark and ugly. so i seized up, broke down with that the way to get out of this,

to explain to myself why i did 2016 and whether i should keep t doing journalism was to figuren' out where it came from and confront the things i did not want to confront.au it's hard, it's messy, it's complicated it's also beautiful and joyous. going through it made me realize how much i love it journalism as a job that i am doing and how important i think it is for all of us to continue to have hard-hitting journalists. to keep doing job in the face of all the ugliness we are currently experiencing. [applause] >> do and to read an excerpt from the book? the has books i i would say. there's a lot of family stuff at the beginning in particular the first third of the book is a

very cinematic if you like miami, let's introduce you to los angeles. her mother and father built out of nothing a full-fledged video and helicopter journalism operation didn't american entrepreneurial ship. >> one point my dad walked into helicopter company, 25 years old he still had pimples. he is beside my mother who was pregnant with my brother and there is me. i went to lease the helicopter and the guy said what are you talking about because mexico leave the helicopter question mcgee said gemini cash and my dad said no. but i have this business plan he presented the business plan. she is the camera woman pointing to my pregnant woman and they are like get out of here what are you doing? get to hand over a million dollar helicopter he had no

pilots license. he went out andeb convince somebody at the fire department to teach them how to fly pretties that license along with my mom to cover news in los angeles in the late no one had done before per they had been a helicopter called eight helicopter casie l.a. had at a local station in l.a. but these very seldomly and is a bit of a gimmick. they said the city's giants. whenever we get to a news event it is over, thely fire blazes ot when you get to see the flames for the car crash everyone has been airlifted or ambulance out of there. how do we get there faster so we can see it's happening a real time? with got to do it from the air. they built this business called los angeles new service. they change journalism as we know it. at first it was for good you can see these things happening in realal time. i mean they captured some

videotape that held authorities accountable in a way as they had not been held to account beforeo see hp beating the living daylights out of a group of migrants who would cross the border just a few miles north of san diego just beating them terribly. that would never have been seen had my parents not been above it with the helicopter and trading their hair budget it didn't make the many friends. they could capture and hold authorities accountable in a way they'd not been held before. this is a reality tv is news now. they covered the first light of police pursuit the carjacking, a murder, the sky took the los angeles police department on a high-speed pursuit through all wof l.a. put up freeways down freeways cracked sidewalks, curbs, everything. practice wild a videoeo of this boat was the license plate?

cruel fate. the capture the whole thing in real time. the news director, this is 9192 the news director had a decision to make, do i cut into a rerun of matlock? which did good numbers. show this police pursuit or do i keep matlock on question atci te time he made the decision to cut into matlock which was a big deal. it was a gamble. the next day the los angeles times is covering it said it was a marriage of tragedy and technology. but as beginning of the error you could carry events alive. it was not just eating network broadcast a 152nd live shopper this ongoing rolling live coverage of an event you do not know the time you didn't know

who wasn't it, you don't know what they had done, what theirer motives were. they were a goodd guy, bad guy, you're just observing it. >> is without i content. the printable uptick in coverage without any of the information that i'm stealing the thunder of my point. >> please do. i am a man and i like to explain. >> are pillow conversations are a real joy. the rains came in the next date slaughtered matlock. lpeople could not get enough of these life pursuits. it covered more and more.

news became entertainment reality tv version of what's going on around you. you can draw a straight line to let's air it without context because we w cannot take her eys off of it to the weight we cover political rallies or the way we covered them in 2015 and 2016. 'this is important, yes. but it is also -- needs context, yes sure. but we cannot take her eyes off of it so let's eric and we will figure it out later. and that has always suffered from in that time. it is part of how we are dealing with the aftermath of what happened 2016 on the way it ate away at trusted f journalism. we are now trying to figure out how to work back towards that trust. it's very easy to a lose trust it's very, very difficult to earn it back. >> what if i may interject? [yes please.

>> right about the big national is also a really good personal story aboutat you and your rise and your relationship with your father the gifts he gave you it's actually very moving. i remember it mickey mantle supposedly had a father who threw baseballs at him in the crib until little baby mickey learn to put a a handout. that's how you read a baseball prodigy race issues with the grace mostst naturally gifted television broadcasters or father sexually did that to her when she was a little tyke he would turn on the camera, turn on the microphone he would make her recount and live reporter form what happened during the day at. [laughter] worked as a video have it on my instagram you can find it. it's me when i was four years old, it may be meant less. my dad has a camera on me and a standing on the sidewalk with my brother he said give me a news report. you know what thed lady on the news i look at him sideways again is like the lady on the radio at knx.

it dawned on me and i said there is a fire in san diego. [laughter] a fire broke out inwe all my friends are there departing mcdonald's. but it was the beginning of being forced to do these live reports on demand. will be the card too give me a live report about what's happening on our drive to get pizza. tefor a long time is really fun prisoner got to be a teenager got to be very annoying. but looking back it was the best training for the job that i do now. i found myself in situations in local news you get to a story two minutes before the broadcast. local news iste run, run, run ty have been decimated financially. they just do not have the resources they used to. please watch local news. it's good for everybody.i

[applause] will got to agree local papers, miami herald. we get to a story in two minutes before it come to you and say what's going on? we look around let me tell you about what's going on. and it's observational for a lot of journalism as observational painting a picture, telling a story, building and narrative. there's a lot of that in this book. there's a lot of humor. should i read the part about the vice president? >> yes please read thisie part. >> so much of her identity is tied to be a journalist. she was raised in a family journalist, she is a fantastic journalist. become a mother, parent, wife, all these other identities commit and compete. those identities collided in this anecdote brickwork so just given birth to my first son, teddy'. it was as anyone's adverse birth

at the traumatic expense' are nt really prepared for. you really don't understand what's happening. my ended in an emergency c-section. the aftermath of that was a lot. i had just gotten home just four days after five days after we just got back i'm in the bathroom and i'm working up the courage to look down at what has happened to me. i have my phone in my hand and i'll start reading. this is chapter 16. ita, is, law, right after we arrived in from the hospital my phone rang person the bathroom trying to get ag moment alone sitting on the toilet lid breathing deeply try to bring up the courage to look out the mesh hospital briefs i just pulled her on my knees. i knew it was going to be ugly. i wasn't sure he wanted to know how ugly i did not know my phone was in my hand until it started to flash and buzz. i do not know why i looked at it

except for the distraction. i was looking for any reason that earth to not look down for even that was a 415 number, san francisco area code a city where i know nobody i picked up, hello i said? cadiz the voice on the other side a call sound excited for me. like i was about to be presented with checks every week for the rest of my life. yes i said? the boys was iconic midway between the 2020 and paper present was a voice of democratic candidate for the whitee house and center for my home state of california and the voice of the current vice president of the united states, the voice of kamala harris. but wasn't really, really hurt her or was i still hallucinating? i also hallucinate at the hospital it was fun to have the whole psych ward show up and say are you okay? that's in here. it took me a second to register what might be happening. i was groggy, half drugs,

self-defeating and sang out the name of financer on the daytime talk show. i imagine opera arm stretched out, head tilted back. is this a joke? this has to be a joke. someone is up ranking me, hi i said? i heard you had a baby. i just wanted to call and say congratulations. her voice was alive it jumped out of the phone and danced around me like a technicolor rainbow, oh my god it is really hurt.w yes, i did, how's the baby how are you? i looked down. [laughter] inside the briefs was a mat of gaza folded up like an origami diaper, a catch all what was still falling out of my uterus, ladies you know. you think that when you push a baby out you push everythingn,

out. or you think if you have a c-section like i did they just mop up before they sell you backup. not so different from a dentist after they remove the tooth. but no body spent 10 months building palma takes weeks for that home to dislodge in pieces and fled down a swollen mississippi of bodily fluids. six weeks at least, i'm sorry gentlemen i am so sorry most of you are married. >> i'm sorry i forgot this is and i'm sorry recommended. [laughter] do tell you this at a doctor's visit or you read about it some book with the goddess on the cover, nothing readies you for what comes out. they say it's like a really heavy. what comes out is not cute. there will be blood, there will be tissue, there be cloth, golf

ball size and normal baseball are not for thought aboutok telling vice president harris the truth, making a joke of it all. want to happen to be in the middle of doing. i may be that would have been the s right move. but my professional t filter kicked in print suddenly occurred to me this was a work call. i had been covering this person one way or another i would be covering this person one way or another once i got back to work. i decided maybe i don't telln hr about the carrey movie in my pants. maybe i keep it up beat, build bridge, make a connection, be human for the crime of human she will agree to sit down to an interview with during the campaign or if they get to that point, the white house, be nice, be a reporter. i am good. [laughter] i said trying to have excitement, teddy is good we just got back from the hospital. i felt like harris had opened a door by calling and walking

through it i banged my head against the door frame i was morris code technicolor rainbow. shehe must have noticed that she begged up a call pretty quickly. okay she said i just want to say congratulations, good luck talk soon. >> have you ever interviewed, hearses vice president? >> would know. >> i wonder why?i >> nowh forgot to send her the book and say excuse me can we talk about what was really going on? the fact about paid parental leave but we are at it. [applause] i immediately realized i failed a task that my mother would've passed her she would've realized while you might be taking some time off from the news business, the news business is o never taking time off from you. it's also failing on a front tear my father would've somehow conquered. my father was it for the next

thing in news never stopped to divide rules and regulation risking life and limber is not going to take teddy up in a helicopter anytime soon but maybe perhaps we should been been shooting video for social media above the neck anyway. anything to keep this new me connected to the me existed out in the world as a journalist. but it's out and about ideas of energy. recently hung up and sat there for ar, while longer forcing myself to look down. [applause] the other part of this book that i found useful and also it was worthwhile as a deeperan conversation. is not just the rally but news events, what we can do better as journalists. our love to hearin them.

on the book i talk about right before i go on maternity leave it is thee end of the mueller investigation the first special counsel that we have a second special counsel investigating donald trump. so i'd covered since the beginning. this felt like the end of something very big. i wanted to be a mountain of the outcome. i am 10 months pregnant, i am huge. to get an announcement bill barr is going to summary over the weekend. i'm just prepare for it will be a summary of the results of the mueller investigation. i barged into my bosses office is you've got to put me on the air of the weekend. i need time s we don't know when it's going to come out saturday or sunday at some point. they gave me a few hours in the afternoon each day it just so happened on sunday the summer and outward got a warning about it a heads up. we tapped it up to newsweek at

the summary itself which is a four-page statement with one half direct rope from the actual report. as you know the statement was deeply misleading present political statement but that was all we had to go on. to this is me on live television reading a statement without context again. without the context of the underlying reporter. and all we had come at me in every other news organization was his political statement from a political appointeeee summarizing what the investigation said. we did not know was misleading until three weeks later when the actual report came out. to the question is, we gave this document the runway to paint the

picture about the investigation that was not true. to get the white house this when they did not turn. and it was bad for the public. it was bad for the country. but what do you do in that situation? we call ourselves this 24 hour news cycle partners on cable news also in social media. and in newspapers, these live blogs keep you up to speed what's happening a minute by minute. what do we do? this is a conversation you and i have a lot. in the moment there was no other choice to go with the lie because everyone else was going. we could all say were not going to cover something unless we know more about it. but then fox news or whatever gateway pundit or whatever will. say they are not covering it because it's good for the president. so you are caught in this rock and hard place use a bad cliché with not being good for the

public discourse. but also not having a choice to do it any differently. so we are in this moment right now or we need the public's buy-in. in the public's critical thinking and critical eye in order to navigate this very complicated information atmosphere with women with social media, 24 hour news with our politicians ability to circumvent us. it is just very difficult. we are all trying to figure out how to do it better. so my question to you guys is, do you know a better way to do this? the floor is open for questions. if you have one i would love to hear. took that out of your hands. >> it's all very good wise choice.

>> i don't know if i have any answer, maybe just add to the complication. the "new york post" but not the bottom of the front page after the announcement florida makes an announcement page 26. [laughter] i read part of that article which is just one little column on the left on page 26. we don't know about his cholesterol level. they described him as a man who plays golf a lot. >> that was a very short blurb. so comparing that to what the press gave trump the billions of dollars of free airtime.

so the question is where do you feel you need to reside without full spectrum? >> which news the formerth president is running again. one 100% that is something that needs to be covered but is be covered in context the way were not able to do in 2016 we did have thehe foresight. we can now say donald trump, twice in page former presidents currently under investigation by the fbi and the d.o.j. is running for president again. we can say that. we can talk about the news of value or the news out of his speech but not necessarily everything he said. and we talked about the field of republicans are either in or out and what lawmakers are doing, the way they are reacting to it with the donors are doing how they are reacting to it with the family presses during the week they are acting to it, the "new

york post" it's something worthwhile. also talk about what it means for congress and how theng republican party in the democratic party legislate going forward what hearings aree the, there are all of these newsy questions and affect every one of us they are the people in charge of legislation. in the money that we get as a country and the laws that are made, but we don't just go and cover it wall-to-wall for the sake of having it on the screen. >> thanknk you. >> hi sue bolling to set you guys are deafly a couple of old souls. someone who works in corporate media how do you view the rising popularity of independent and online media? not just theg? right wing of right-sided broadcasting on american's but also from the left whenur you have the young

towards the majority reports, secular reports. do you people that work in corporate media and view them as a threat? do you view them as a welcoming the mermaid is a better? >> don't do anybody as a threat. corporate media has a certain implications. i don't consider myself working for a big corporation in the sense it is directing anything i say or any stories that i cover it. i think that is kind of misleadingmc. people think comcast is coming in and sink katy b want you to cover this to not cover that. that is not the case. i think independent news outlets do a wonderful job, pro- public a dozen credible journalism. in the more the merrier in that respect. >> anybody who can interest the public and current events i think is doing god's work. whether you come from the left or the right of entry point in for any member of the public to become interested in who is

being elected, what they are trying to do, more power to them. cooks all media's good independent corporate whatever. make sure you understand how they source, one of the rules for sourcing information? what are the rules for fact checking? how they are accountable. >> the other thing that's important to understand about smaller more opinion driven news outlets on the left andht the right as they are only able to exist because of a larger sometimes denigrated corporate media outlets are funding actual reporting it actual actual difficult places on campaigns in war zones in disaster zones. finding things out that her fodder for conversation. that includes in a huge weight newspapers and print media. the associated press, reuters, the miami herald, all thet' othr newspapers. if i had to choose a world where one of them went away the big

guys are the little guys i would choose the little guys but i like living in a world were both existed. i think they feed one another. >> symbiotic. >> thank you. >> one other thing about corporate media, yes it's a money making enterprise. but because it's a moneymaking enterprise, its mission and goal is the broadest possible audience. i think there's a virtue in america having a new source that is attempting succeeding or failing on some days are others but attempting toec reach this spectrum as opposed to the spectrum or the spectrum. [applause] the best thing about the last two years we have not had to listen to unfiltered trump go on and on on national news. [applause] and then last night i stumbled upon nbc streaming and they had

trump on from a conservative dinner inn mar-a-lago where they gave him like 10 minutes to thank all the people that he supported, who supported him and then they cut away and said we will come back because we are only interested in hearing what he has to say about the special prosecutor. then they cut back in and he did talk about them appointing the special prosecutor. and it went on and on about how persecuted he has been. and how he's given 11000 pages of documentation and they have everything on him what do they keep asking for? i finally had to turn it off because it was going on for too long unfiltered. so i think were back and that's upsetting. >> hi. [laughter] i didn't know if that is aqu question? >> i am all for community meeting style.

statements or questions are fine. >> have a question about a statement. my name is barry meant to be a gotcha question among the most important things i've been listening to his keats podcast. i'm not doing it because of the situation, but he think of his podcast do you think it's his greatest side question it because i haven't listened to it either is it keith antidote in the book. >> please listen to it just one episode it's great i wish everybody would. pardon me. my name is paul johnson i was in the media about 25 years ago senior producer for i got out of that business i'm now now a u.s. attorney. [laughter] you asked how do we solve are what are some suggestions moving eaforward? i don't know if there is. i am not a defeatist but how do you compete with social media

that's not thereke to inform its there toou get you back. like the old batman, same bat channel same back channel just come back. i don't know how you do it cannot beat mcneil layer one on the side and one on the site no one is going to watch. >> and think part of it is first of all let's all pull one out for twitter. i think part of it and i've had these conversations recently as a where we think the other person we are talking to is coming from.r if they say something we don't agree with or we find offensive or isn't in line with what is acceptable today, or if you want to say accurate. assuming the person i think there's a knee-jerk reaction to assume the person is a bad actor or is angry, mean, or trying to do something nefarious.

i'm not talking about politicians. talk about every day your neighbors your friends, your relatives. i think it would be good for all of us to assume the person you're speaking too if you're speaking to them on social media, is not a bad person. maybe it just somebody that you need to have a more calm conversation with to understand where they're coming from and then you can tell them where you are coming fromm and then you could have a dialogue that we have not been able to have because everybody believes the person they are speaking with is the devil. and we are not. we are all americans and trying to make the country as good as it can possibly be. we are all dealing with a lot of everyday junk in our lives. and we are all getting information from now different sources. some of it reliable and some of it not reliable. but it is worthwhile trying to find common ground. and try to find a way to speak to each other again. and i think it's great that

twitter is falling apart. i meet twitter has been good for a lot of things. [applause] it's done a lot ofth good in the world that has enabled a lot of people to come together and to push back against violent regimes. it's open the world into a dialogue but more recently been very angry, and mean and divisive. and so my advice to everybody would be to log off if you haven't already. log off facebook. maybe if you go on instagram just like pictures of dogs and cats, baby photos. instead if you're getting into a conversation with somebody trying not to are bad person. try to talk to them. >> if someone were to deliver a news program that is substantive but may be a little boring or dry, maybe it's good for you i don't know part in that uk the bbc is quite boring. the culture of news and

revegetables there. we do not have a culture of the news as eventual we have the news isn't bright and shiny and happening now if you look we are going to miss the most amazing thing. it's going to be bloodied, so it be funny, 20 exciting. i wish as a person who worked in journalism it was a little bit more less entertainment and more kind of miami-dade college. it's like an education. [applause] works well, thank you all. thatat was a wonderful conversation for another round of applause for our authors. [applause] that concludes the session the next session will begin in a few minutes. thank you. ♪ weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history oc