time with the memories or frankly my time itdo at&t and i don't even think people want to hear about that and i am trying to dolp god's work and how to inspire people and how he has blessed me and picked me up through my life. >> well cynt thank you for your ti and for writing this book and sharing my story. i appreciate you spending time with us. >> thank you for training and thank you for taking some time to also encourage people and i appreciate you. >> listening to programs on c-span through c-span video just got easier, tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio and listen to washington journal daily at 7:00 a.m. eastern an important congressional hearings other public affairs events throughout the day and weekdays at 5:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. eastern, catch washington today professed face report stories of the day •-ellipsis he spent any

time i just tell smart speaker, play c-span radio, c-span, powered by cable. >> welcome, i'm the director of the library which is across the street and thank you, to our friends at first - for letting us have this event here. grateful to be here and congratulations, the debut is a number one bestseller list, fabulous. so this open book i'm really glad to have a everyone here really happy for thebr people wo are able bring the library into their homes so we can do this and first i would like to start by having my colleague jerry here, talk about the foundational public ivory foundation. >> thank you janet, some are so happy that you are here for another exciting session of open book open mind and personally excited as i have been following maggieil haberman's work over te

past few years in the daily podcast and print it on tv and it's an honor to have her here with us and mount claire and i would like to welcome everyone on behalf off the montclair public library foundation for a group of your friends and neighbors, and her mission to raise money to fund the offerings that make our library so special like open book an open mind pretty and the foundation also funds staff development and access to digital resourcest no needs that are not covered by city funding. in your donation support initiatives laptop lending and wi-fi for mount claire residence without internet access and learning classes tutoring and resume help, and children's literacy programs, and significant growth any book and audiobook collections during the pandemic it printed in the last five years alone from the foundation is made his divisions to the library telling more than $700,000, to support these initiatives but we need your help to continue the support and

after you enjoy this event, which i know you will, please consider making a donation through our website, mount claire ellis .org and gifts of all sizes have an impact and thank you very much and please enjoy the program. [applause] [applause] thank you jared i think you to all of youer for supporting writers and readers and bookstores and libraries and public libraries in particular and especially the mount claire library and i just want to do a little housekeeping and weredo going to be, the questions will be through the end of the cards that you pick up on your way and so if you have a question, please write it down and we will collected before the conversation starts. i know it is my great pleasure to introduce david do you prefer david, okay so he has a cofounder of open book, open minded that had the a sudden little job in the new york times is the assistant managing is due to herno prayed and he is now

chair of the advisory committee of open book, open mind so we appreciated his dedication from generosity but i personally, really appreciate his humor and will you please come up. [applause] [applause] >> thank you janet and i guess i have to tell a joke now. i can't tell you how delighted we are to have maggie here, it's quite an honor and insert you all recognize it or you would not be here this evening and maggie is a new yorker, is a brooklyn. in a white house correspondent from the new york times, figure that without. and she became a journalist in 1999 and she worked for the and in the daily news for a while then chew it back to the new

york post for a while and she got appointed with mr. trump and in about 2010, i guess it was she went to work for politico and in 2015, just before the election in 2016, the times over to the correspondence for the times,s, since 2015, and she was here in 2016, so this is a return visit we appreciate that very much. enter broke, "confidence man" and they said in a recent review of her broken, that had his notableut for the quality of the observations about trumps character. and actually have said that it looked is one that trump pierced the most in these already a doctor for the book.

and joe klein also said that she was fabulously an exemplary hovercraft and i will say that i think the she is one of the outstanding journalist the regeneration we are delighted to make here. >> i'm not climaxing up this is maggie. >> we are also delighted to have returning author is mount claire resident who has been here but as ast guest at another it alsos moderator before he's going to moderate and have a conversation with maggie and handle questions any work for 28 years with newsweek in 20 years as a columnist and he is a best-selling new york times author and emmy award-winning documentary of the cohost, the vaulter family politics with family examine the greater of this letter is most recent book

is his very best, jimmy carter is life published in 2020. som him glad he is here and all of this work that he doesn't we are delighted to have him here at this event. [applause] [applause] >> thank you, welcome to mount claire maggie. we are really happy to have you. is the audio okay, i am getting a little bit of feedback okay, that is better. there is so much to cover. i want to focus mostly on the pre-us presidency, because thats less well understood in your book, it covers all.

you are the - on the pre- presidential list by far but before that i jump into the new york politics, and business, just in terms of today's news. so the january 6 committee, is there any chance that he will appear. >> there is a chance and think you all very much for being here and there is a chance that he will say, yes, i will appear if you let me testify live in the constraints no conditions that i think the chances that the company would agree are fairly slim because i think it would fear that would turn into a circus. in reality, this would be when the smart thing topp do is just let them appear under penalty of perjury in public.

so wednesday is completely out of the question but a at the moment just enjoys way. >> we look at if we say we issued a subpoena, and now we going to do it because it would be life. >> not be the first time that they would do it so some concern i think that they would point joe the fact that he has a rather well-worn history of turning big events like this into a spectacle. >> our member the debate with biden wherefrom biden finally said when she just shut up and he interrupted chris wallace i think literally 100 times. >> i was a lot. >> all right, there something else that happened recently, the really intrigued me and am interested in whether you share this so you writing a book how

he often says things in public, former protection for him like for private the leak helped russia and hillary's e-mail so it would beenca a huge schedule but in public uses rush are you listening any also projects on the weather people things that he is done himself and so is lewis last week and speech he went back to his kind of o.j. simpson defense, they - the evidence jenny never argues the court which tells you, why central pretty publicly was saying that vf i entered fbi have planted evidence and what interested me was the evidence that he used which was like to play the book on how to make a nuclear bomb. >> of a specific. >> is very specific what did you

take from that. >> exactly what you did ander there was, when you talk to people and trumps orbit when they deny things, they tended to mirror got all of them but a bunch of people mayor's behaviors how to read about this in the book. when you ask a question about what happened you will often get a piece o' information you'll go back, who told you that. well that is not true, will but doesn't matter who told it and there's a degree well is untrue, that they found anything, like this were has since come is already been reported by the washington post that there is material freethinking to another country, nuclear capabilities and it was found at mar-a-largo and i don't know if there was only one document, we are talking about 300 individual classified documents.

anden he often would say somethg a publican, at least on the surface, hit appears like it could be some kind of omission and i did not think that there was necessarilyy calculated way of rippingng off the mandate and doing it publicly but it made me think. >> while it may be about something more than just another countries nuclear capability and these nuclear secrets are worth a lot, the market if you were to try to sell them. >> they are and i think that the you know, there are a couple of buckets in which you could put the bigth thing that we don't kw about this is the why, there has been a lot of theories that have been tested. knowing him, there are a couple

of possibilities, one which you describe monetizing requires a level l of confidence in people around him who could execute ballots that is a little harder to see the moment of another possible but they're all kinds of people coming in out of mar-a-largo in the news and what is that he loves trophies and if anyone who's ever been to trump tower and went to his office, just a tour of his stuff which includes an giant sneaker that was shaquille o'neal's you know and some framed picture of scott walker and meon that scott walkr sent me and on and on and on and you know, the white house and trophies. but ultimately with him, so much of what he does and seeks is about leverage and having leverage over somebody or other peoplee or and other entities and i cannot

discount that either that i don't know what that leverage necessarily is been everything is about what i got that you want to use. >> so he describe you as his psychiatrist. [laughter] [laughter] >> what you think you meant by that and how would you characterize you know your relationship. >> i don't think he meant much. >> he had this line, towards the end of one of our interviews, the last interview in september of 2021, and he said i love being with her, she is like my psychiatrist when he was sort of, you know, ventilating about somethingth pretty right it was in-line certainly intended to flatter the kind of think that he is sent and he said that about other interviews as well, it's would feed and the reality

is that he treats everyone like they are his psychiatrist because he's working everything out in real time all of the time and in terms of, i think that's the wrong word i cover hillary clinton and i covered mike bloomberg and rudy giuliani and three presidents. this is different with him because he had to rocks with news coverage is so different tallying assets are different specific fixation on the new york times and i just in the person who covers most of the time. >> he made an interesting point that he argued that he needs you were than you need him and i think that one thing that we are talking about in the green room as a people not journalist, they don't understand is that getting me access to the principal whether it is president for not all it is cracked up to be don't

really needot their quotes we do find something newsworthy, contrary to some bs on the internet, you put it in the new york times in real time when he breaks news and you know i think the misunderstanding of the reporter subject relationship, has something that i would like you to straighten out a little bit for people to not sure, i appreciate that you understand the people do not understand it or have misconceptions of it, what you said about twitter. one of the worst parts about twitter is that a lot of people get battling it isut from twitt, but their understanding of journalism forum toys are and are a lot of misconceptions about the profession at about the way journalists work.

... are, you know, there's always depending on who you're interviewing, there is always going to be a spectrum of what you're likely to get out of it. with donald trump, you you're guaranteed that it's it's not going to it is not going to be turned much of it. it is not ethnographic and so going in and interviewing someone and making sure theyu. m will talking to i will cover him whether his talking to me or not.un do not need his permission to cover himha and he has never understood that. he fundamentally does not understand what journalists do. i put them in that same category.

the way that i approach these interviews was they offered me the first one. i literally thought they offered everyone an interview, almost everybody. the cat that is just how he is and that including michael wolf who included the most damning initial book portrait of the tribal white house. when they offered it to me at first i thought i really not going to get anything out of this. when i went down there she was actually -- he said much more i was talking to him about new york. so i sought to subsequent interviews. one of which yielded not a ton the third when yielded a little more. but as you set your talking to someone who often does not tell

the truth. in a print interview different than a television interview. we were trying to ask questions and get information it's not a moment for television. carson thought it was a great in the middle of the book you have his responses to some your fact checkingf questions. some of the questions you raised about part of his past. my problem with that is heh. lis every time he opens his mouth. he lies whenever he breathes. what ini is that worth journalistically? works with the value? that is what we struggle withy,' daily. he's now a former president. he's not donald trump the developer. i've thought about this a lot in the process of writing this book. there's been a lot of criticism of 2016 campaign coverage.

i think some of it is valid. i think some of it is less so. i do not think the overall portrait of donald trump in 2016 was flattering from the coverage. i think voters had a pretty good sense of who this guy was. there could have been more on his business ties. a person thing is underexplored area we just never in presence of this kind of entanglements particularly foreign entanglements. i think there is significant criticism of the media was giving weight to his words and 1970s , 80s and 1990s. building this artifice brick by brick of himself as is a massively successful tycoon commensurate with jack welch and all these other people who trump tried to pretend he was at the same level as. and often, despite the fact people knew he didn't tell the truth a lot of the time his

statements just went unchecked in some cases for years. and that i think is a problem. now he is thehe former presidens cap enormous plane the republican partyom still. and it comes to a book about his life he is still the only person who can answer some of these questions. i felt the need to go to him. >> my overall take on him and i am wondering if this is yours as well, just when you think he is touched he crashes through the floor. [laughter] you have t been covering him for more than 20 years. do you see the same progression think things have gotten as bad as theyy are and you find something else it's even worse? trucks i've never seen someone to test the limits of transgressive behavior.

tip every time i think you put it very well everything we think he has hit a limit there is no limit. and i think generally sixth 21 really show that. coupled with a few months later he starts fermenting this idea supported mike lindell was spreading he was get reinstated to the white house. it is silly. there is no such mechanism. but there are supporters of his out there that do not realize that. it's very dangerous to being engaging in encouraging writers reported this in real time i got a lot of blowback. people said we should ignore him. i don't think we can ignore that at this time we seen the impact.

>> was guilty of this as a new york journalist i go to trump towers. he was always available? we needed copy. [inaudible] he would see tv crews. went over the nec tv crew printed good food for them and they loved it. [laughter] he might not understand journalism but when he ran for president he was the most experienced. >> no question. >> candidate the thing that countsstdi the most. boxers absolutely no question his dexterity was being on tv was a huge value for him. i gave him enormous edge over everybody else. as much as theylo hate parts of the media he loves it and needs

it. that was just a contrast to every other person with the possible exception unchecked exception of mike huckabee that he was running against the various points in that cycle. my foot slightly differently too, jonathan, he does not experience news coverage delete anyone else i've ever covered does. stories that would humiliate other people or they would be embarrassed to have out there, he revels in. the opposed front page that was said by marla maples but wasn't, it's the best i ever had in 1990. he loved it. he was delighted by it. most people would be cringing. >> with the great things you do over and over again to get the back story of that. ms. concocted that whole thing out of nothing.

but without unpacking too many of the stories i'm interested in hisenis mentors. the people he modeled his behavior on, no his reverence for his father. who was arrested at ara ku kluxs klan demonstration would give you some idea of what fred trump was like. let's talk about some the of spirit what healer from roy cohn? >> rico becomes trump sawyer 1973 would trumpet his father in the business of being sued by the justice department racially discriminatory practices. kohn tells trump to fight. trump learns a couple of things. one, you can use the court system interchangeably. you can shout as loud as a possible and try to keep whoever's challenge you at bay for a while that way. you can threaten and intimidate

and menace. even ifle you settle you will nt say your settling. most the thing he learns as the slawyer could be turned into something like a mafia, something completely different than what lawyers are supposed to do. a longtime trump fred has said to me on several occasions, trump likes lawyers who are willing to do anything. >> did he turn himself into a mafia don? he gave six apartments in trump tower to the mistress of a big mobster. he flew john gotti's top lieutenant on his helicopter in atlantic city. >> later claimed he didn't know the guy. thank never has a record like a mob boss. no e-mail. no notes, note records. there is certainly, among roy's

clients are mobsters. the mafia it was deep into the concrete industry in new york city which was the material trump chose to build trump tower with. and then yet interactions with mafia pokes many students casino project. at minimum trump has no problem with it. at most i was he gravitates toward that. he certainly adapts us kinds of behaviors. michael cohen talks about this all the time. that trump speaks in a code and gives you a sense of what he wants you to do without openly saying it. >> so we know he adopted this character john barron he named guhis son barron and pretend toe as a guide. i learned from your book i'd never heard of vinny before who is vinnie? trucks is a complicated housing

commissioner is not donald trump fan. weidman's commissioner. this is an important story. he encourages to object the tax abatement. trump goes to court. in the interim tony gets a call at his home one morning from someone who identifies himself as vinnie. vinnie is veryat upset mr. trump is not getting a tax abatement. there is a threat in this. reports this to officials, he's given a security detail. i think the next day, do not have my notes in front of me. trump himself claims he too got a threatening call which was so

surprising. [laughter] on that call became known many years later when the fbi files were undone. there is no hard proof of who called trump there is widespread skepticism around tony that it was trump himself. the way the story ends as trump get the tax abatement court.lly, he wins in the details are a little dense. ultimately weidman has two children and a bad weight problem, it gets a call from trump inviting him to launch. trump ultimately offers him a job. weidman takes it. ed cox almost fell over when he found i was going to go work for drum. i would argue that some the earliest examples at least know of trump threatening someone and then givingg in.

>> and bending them to his will. >> bending them to his will. chrissy told him we if you lose weight. >> kind of like saying to larry king on the air you've got bad breath. scooting away from him. so, other people he modeled behavior from, john george steinbrenner. >> he was avatar of hyper- masculinity and trump was terrified of aides and talked time.it all the and after shaking hands with men called reporters say is a blog blog day just shook hands with them? and brenner was a big tough guy who was privileged like trump and had a healthy dose of self

regard, like trump. trump hung around him and hung around his crew. he had friends like bill who was also friends of lloyd cohen. lee iacocca there was a screw and trump wanted to be like him and found himself emulating this that. cap he was not going by playacting. the apprentice with you arede fired. it's pretty widely seen. i think most people are pretty familiar with its. they're not familiar s video. was he wanted trump went from from him? >> is a brooklyn democratic party boss went machine about politics ruled in new york city.

trump's father fred was very close. that helped them hardwire all kinds of projects in brooklyn. it had enormous clout all over the city. in light trump first came to office, mead was ruthless, he was a criminal, didn't believe rules applied but he made judges, he may district attorneys. and when trump came into office he would talk about a figure who sounded very much like me and most of the officials who work from the white house were not from new york. he would talk about me swinging i think people thought baseball and he told me this story in one of ourur interviews swinging his cane at people present mead

ruled with an iron fist. mead is on the people who helped inform trump's idea of two things. one is how the political operator functions and rules which is just top-down. and the other is that mead fit trump's idea of strength. and a lot of trump's idea of strength is informed by violence. that in turn mead very much falls into that category. >> it is almost like he is almost like an idea for. >> there is a direct line. >> there is also most despicable quality of cruelty was also in evidence earlier. tell us what happened after the helicopter crash and what he

said about the deceased executives? >> so, bunch of trump executives died in a helicopter crash in new jersey. i think it was on a their way bk from her immediate trump tower. two things happened after words. one was somehow an item got placed i believe is page six suggesting trump n himself was supposed to be on this helicopter, which nobody believed it was always at and didn't like to fly those. roger stone has insisted it really was true. do with that what you will. the windows and onenv other girl from her fiancé, there are three people involved, of the dead meant were aghast at the suggestion trump was somehow in danger. and he later on started to blame

his financial woes at the casino's one of those that executives. and he j said to one of his officials, was jack o'donnell. he isn't dead what does it matter what i say about him now? that really stayed with jack o'donnell who wrote his own book. there is a chronic at all these descriptions that have been around for a very long time chronic, disregard actually dont have any moves uses them over and over again partly understands and especially democratic politicians are terrible at repeating things. in the case of obama and clinton did the same thing over and over

that it's kind of an overall i has repetition. then there are some specific moves. i wanted to go over them and see if you could give us an example of each. the first one you mentioned is the counterattack. >> of that is, puppet it's going right back at you. the strongest defense is offense.in looks or you write a story and he starts tweeting you, that's an example. >> the quick l light. [laughter] >> one of our interviews i asked him what he's doing during the general sixth attack which at that point was not part of the actual under oath public record of the house, the select committees had not started. he merely said he was not watching television. and he rarely had the tvo on.

so that would be a good example. correctly shift of blame. [laughter] >> there are so many on those. it is my campaign managers fault i am losing. threatening to sue his campaign manager because the poll numbers are bad. finding some aid on. nothing is ever his fault. >> distraction? >> that one is -- there's a bunch in that category. fornd instance people insist organically. when he was in the middle of a lot of questions were actually republican national convention to 2016 about russia and his

comments about russia and this was after the e-mail hacks of the dnc. and suddenlyw these two picturs of melania and trump show up in the front page of in your post rejected earlier. and donald trump who does not like when people write about his life unless he wants to control, appear to have no problem with this. that was a distraction. >> the outburst of rage? >> i can lose count on that one. you can see that when all of the time. the screaming at people to get them in line and something he has done throughout his life. people in the white house, when he had just want someone who works for him years ago said he is a screamer and humor could have a hard time with this. indeed indeed he did, so. >> the performancet of anger sometimes not genuine? >> i will give you a for

instance. some of the tweets youa asked , tweets that all caps will describe the good example. just the headlines claim. >> involvement cap might be w gd example about 12017. no evidence other than some breaks in the story he was reading. >> when the got blown apart today said pelosi didn't do anything to protect the capitol. video comes out today of her trying to get the national guard there. in the middle of the dan januars doing nothing. so call indecisiveness amassed

by compensatory lunch. [laughter] >> so when he couldn't -- this is going to sound hard to believe. november 13, 2020 when he lost he could not decide what course of action to follow when it became clear he was not going to be able to stay in office anymore. he was quizzing everybody in valley who brought in his diet coke, what you think i should do? and then after he doesn't get what he wants from anybody and it becomes clear he's not quite ready to pull the trigger of this proposed intervention >> seizing the voting machines in a fascist regime? >> yes using executive orders to do so. he suddenly sees ungenerous six and throws all his energy into it. so why do you think so little

sticks to him? why is he the ultimate teflon? >> think a couple of things. i think the fact that he was part of the pop-culture fabric for so long and the apprentice which you just mentioned, will became 2016 was voters -- his voters felt very bonded to him there was a huge desire to win and voters were willing to overlook a lot. then they got in the habit of overlooking all kinds of things. and i just think the partisan divide -- have for countries not not interested in much. if he's the nominee again. i think there's an aspect of the republican party that sick of him, i do. i think we'll see more of that in the coming months. think there a lot of candidates are going to run.

special beginning of 2022 when this issue with the document. i do think he is taking on. now i think it's baked in. but i think with him there is so much. i do think during the presidency everything was sorted treated as if it was a four alarm fire and not everything was a four alarm fire. there were a number of them. but when everything is an emergency voters to start just like nothing is. >> what do you think is a must blown to the democrats? >> i think that -- i think that the -- and treasure have said this carefully. think a couple of things. kids and cages, huge deal. the huge humanitarian crisis.

every single tweet he did, huge deal. did not all needed to be treated they were all the same. every gaffe he made, every non- sensible answer he came, not all the same. can grazing putting on winning his election when he was told not to is important. his praise of xi jinping wasth important. but everything became one big thing. >> there's a crying wolf problem? >> office crying wolf but crank outrage at the same volume every time but it's not wolfe. there's always something there. it'sav just the volume peacocks inside trump conservative writec david french was recently exhausted majority part of its

and articulated to blame sapphires he brings out the worse and his enemies and get them to see themselves. i think there's something to that. >> if are breaking down the manipulative powers, sensing people's weaknesses and exploiting them is not a superpower that he has this ability sort of an x-ray vision of somebody's weaknesses? >> i think it's one of them presently has the ability to pick up on other people's insecurities is one of them. and i think his shamelessness is another. it's a huge edge in politics. and the fact that certainly in his business life and the fact that he is really hyper focused

on the darkness of human emotions. he is really, really a town too bad things people will do. tries to play off of that. he is aware that other people experience shame when they traded to depress that too precursors a power shamelessness. he is really easy to great effect forow himself. how transferable is it? we see desantis go to his playbook the public when you have a pretty bloodied primary. how do you think is imitators will do? >> i think not that well. including i'm not convinced there's going to be a desantis/trump. >> i'm not. because i think everybody talks about wanting to -- they will be

the want to take them on and it's actually pretty unpleasant for everyone who does. stepping into that is more challenging than it looks. private leasesnt desantis was whiny, fats and a phony. >> think the warm up material is way better. and i don't think, distinctive disaster. that's very different from any governor. we have seen eight tempering of desantis by things. he has been less combative. but he has had moments prior where he has seemed less than ready for prime time.

there's a very long history republican donors and history of the media 19 someone is the next whatever. it does not always come out that way. scott walker, i can go down the list. we do not know yet. >> i waste a lot of time covering those people. [laughter] are excited ii count myself among the supporters who have done that. >> trump's heart really is not in 2024, why? >> a couple oft things. i think he is really consumed by these investigations. i think the doc investigation i think the press accounts by cnn showing patternsio of behavior t i think are alarming some of his own advisors. he is aware d.o.j. is paying attention too. spent nine upfront retainer might -- he is worried enough i

got calls from people who work for trump in the 1990s december paid that big of as retainer that's all you need to not break. >> he doesn't pay a retainer at all. >> that's why it's so surprising. he does notot seem animated by e rallies like you once did. they are really long with not a lot of new material. maybe he will get into that he does become a candidate. i think the investigations oddly compelling forward. but we will see. >> if you had to bet he will be the nominee? >> i am not falling for that one again. [laughter] i think if he runs the overwhelming favorite for the nominee. that absent outcomes in thein investigation.

>> is actually believing anything beyond himself? >> em a couple of core impulses on issues like trade or other countries ripping us off more broadly, alliances. he is willing to supplement doesn't there some other reason too. mcconnell i remember was telling people during the transition in 2016 he was clearly just stunned by this. he wouldin say this guy has no idea what he believes in. and i i think to your point he does know what he believes in. he believes in himself and what's good for him. that can look like different things in different moments. >> you ever get the sense he is untethered from reality or do you think it is all connected to his alternative universe in some

way that you contract out makes a certain amount of sense? aren't those the same thing? if he is untethered to reality curtsies crating his own reality. >> is trying to bring you along? >> or at all is that all instinctive? >> sometimes it is instinctive. one of the thingsop about him tt people came to realize over time working in the white house was he is not at all. he is veryiv calculating. it is more of what your second option is he is trying to create this reality and get youi to by into it more often than not. sometimes i believe what he saying unless he can tell he believes what he saying about the election or not. >> is not strategic, what is his timeline?

is it the next news cycle? is it a week is that a month? >> it literally hour by hour. he is existing in the now always. i'm almost ready to get your question. [laughter] let's get your questions. >> they are also good pigments actually before we go to these i want to go to the question of race. one of your big scoops came out a few months ago it's in the book it said he was flushing documents down the toilet. but there's another toilet story in your book. >> is a lot of donald trump toilet stories. [laughter] >> tell the one really goes.

>> when he was first in the oval office he would show people what he called the secret bathroom off the oval office. he would claim he had it renovated the entire space down to the toilet which was not true according to officials. they just customarily replace the toilet anytime there's a new president. i would show the space and set you understand what i'm talking about? it was a very strange remark and open to interpretation. one guest you heard interpreted him not wanting change his black predecessors bathroom. there is a lot of that with him over very long period of time. i have reporting in the book of the first time the first person

whos works in the executive flor of trump tower was black was in 1986 it was the woman who been working as the assistant to the person we talked about before, tony. trumps assistant was all a flutter had never had a black president on the executive floor. it was deemed she was so pretty. it is your mind of a couple of things one is as much as new york city is seen as progressive beacon there are aspects of it that really are not. some of the big public things fairly racist. there are other details youo have. i did not know he had a girlfriend just before melania and picard sets overlapping.

half black, father was white, mother was black. we say about about her? she met her parents told her she got her beauty from her mom and her brains from her dad on the white side. >> let's look at some the questions are all of you. what do you think motivates children? geez think they are politically ambitious? >> i think don junior certainly is. ivanka, yes. i would quite frankly be surprised if she ever ran for office. i don't think trump. [inaudible] this question is about his style of interview. what is the feeling you get from him when you're sitting right across from him is he

charismatic? does he try to bully you, charm you? >> he can beat all of those things but i've interviewed him when he is charming like she was in the first interview i did for this h book. he was in salesman mode. then i interviewed at other times where we walked in and his hands jammed in his armpitsve sitting behind the desk eight to 108 sitting on this is not normal in office meeting with reporters. there are times when he tries to intimidate and it just depends. >> you think it depends on his mood or is there calculation if he's thinking it through a little bit like what do i want to try to do today in this interview? works that when was that. the second interview went to for

the book he was in a terrible mood. i found out later he been wandering this property mar-a-lago poignant mess of plaster various spots that was pretty organic. so this kind of goes to the reality question. even it was a subject of today's hearing. how much do you think he accepts heat loss the election? >> i don't think he accepted it all. whether he knows on some level he did he did at one point. i don't if he does now but he certainly does not accept it. >> there's a lot of testimony he would say to people how did i lose? >> and report on the book. it seemed pretty clear to people immediately after the election he knew he lost.

he said when i k thought we hada pretty scene was apologetic to some of them. i think he was clear that it was over. and then decided it wasn't. >> how do you explain his relationship with putin? >> i can't, i don't. there is the obvious he has admired strongmen and that is the obvious he's been fasting by russia for 40 years. but beyond that i cannot begin to explain it. >> i just want to go back to the question i just asked you about the election. i think it is a deeper psychological question than might appear on the surface. he agreed that he lost immediately after the election but never accepted. yyou internalize it this is no

longer fake on his part? >> and think it's veryca possibe he has convinced himself he did win. he has said to people a version of the same idea over many years which goes to the repetition points. people believe it and it becomes true. that's true for himselfat too. talks another heritage under. >> by the way abundant trunk said he gave them a book of hitler's speeches. at his bedside table. >> what you make of that? >> i don't think he read them. i think he has had a fascination with hitler for a while.

hitler is not somebody who most people in mainstream america admired. >> okay this is about you. how many hours you sleep at night? >> not enough and thank you for asking. [laughter] >> maybe tonight's the night break. >> this question it wants enough your have any time management tips? >> no, i am not here come to for that. [laughter] do you think trump is evil? >> that is a really hard question to answer. i think he is comfortable enough with behavior that he is able. that's probably about as far as i can assess him. >> i will answer, yes. [laughter] so you kind of address this but let's go back a little bit, this

is how scared he is right now about his legal troubles. the questioner makes it very interesting point that maybe his malignant narcissism has cleared narcissistic personality disorder that says he's a better president than in the possible exception of abraham lincoln. but might actually prevent him from feeling or vulnerable under that actually not work doesn't help guard him from feeling? >> he understands legal problems and puts them in a very different category. it is the thing is most acutely to all his life. he has spent a very long time trying to cultivate prosecutors going back too. >> great figure of integrity.

i was disturbed to hear he was as close to trump as he was. >> is one of the reasons trump wafelt uncomfortable nothing bad is going to happen to trump. i just think the experience with legal issues on a different level. >> was heat not that scared the new york das investigation in alvin bragg basically dropped it. he redacted. >> is very concerned about up and he did not get charged. i'll be very problematic paris company when this trial takes a place there's charges against his company. the cfo pled guilty a few months ago is going to test. but trump himself is not criminally charged and that is really how he looks at all of these things as unhappy as it was at the newen york attorney

general, it is still a civil suit. >> have willis in georgia? >> that when it makes them nervous. he is facing a lot of legal problems t. legal problems are threats and he is acutely aware of threats. that is why he gets it. >> why do democrats think he will always escape? >> maybe he will. it was indifferent when he was president is not indicted. expectations around mueller became a little too great. by mueller has focused on his work. but i think there were folks who had high hopes that was going to end his presidency before its expiration date. that was just not right.

because the justice department opinion on indicting a sitting president. but now he is facing serious investigations . he called someone very close to him at the time, not anymore, two days after the capitol right in said as he wants to do about everything into cold tests are things playing out, when you think? the person said i think you've made a real mess. i think this is the first time he is facing several simultaneous messes. >> theal people the toxigenic sx community they really have not been before the grand jury. talks which grand jury are talking about? >> january 6 by doctor john justice department? >> some of them have been. today mark short nay pence'sof chief of staff is before the grand jury. some of them have been.

excess hutchinson been for the grand jury? >> oblations been interviewed by investigators. g >> again hated people assess into the protections of business, but, but. [laughter] you know more than everybody else so you can make without making a prediction you can assess the odds more easily. so to you think he'll be indicted on the document case? you think he'll be indicted on a generous six case? since i don't know he'll be indicted on the documents case clear threats and is a clear case. even though he is, for those who are so generous six hearing spending thompsonid the chairman said over and over again trump is at the center of everything. i think they really tried showing he is the one person who had visibility into all these different activities. my understanding is the justice department has a clear sense to make that kind of case.

>> so i know you're not a pollster and you do not spend a huge amount of time talking to voters. but why do you think he has had such staying powder in 70 million people voted for him the last time? >> so, i don't really know how to answer that other than the fact that i think he has been very successful in activating a lot of people either have not votedd before or have felt left out of the process. then there's a third issue that is a really worthwhile study that we wouldn't do and think the pollster should do of white so many people are open to you know a type of strongman leader in this country. i will be curious to hear it comes o back. >> the subtitle of your book is

the making of donald trump in the breaking of america. how do you explain the latter part of it? what did he didn't break this country? ask and think he did not create and youe would know this far better than i do, he did not create the partisanship that has cleaved the country. but he fueled it and he exacerbated it and he benefited from it. any exported, and i write about this, one is guiding e-services that he clearly expressed in the late 1980s in new york city during a terrible case of violence in which teenagers of color were arrested and he took out an ad, for the death penalty for them.

he clearly saw paint as a >> good. i think he exported that to washington. and i think he has exported to his party. and i think that has had a massive trickle-down effect. >> i think thates is good placeo end. [laughter] thank you so much. [applause] ♪ weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday in american history tv documentsmerica's story and on sunday book tva brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 comes from these television companies and more including comcast. >> are you thinking this is just a community center? no, it's way more than that. comcast is part of the 1000 community centers to great wi-fi enabled list of students from low-income families can g t