good evening and thank you all for joining us. i'm the smithsonian associate and thrilled to welcome you to today's program on visual thinking with doctor temple grandin. it's your support that keeps usp going as many of you know we are not federally funded aid rely on donations and membership support to bridge the gap between program expenses. to anyone that might be new, welcome and i invite you to explore the wide-ranging programs we offer and to consider beingin a member to improve hundreds of trusted learningng experiences every ye. you can find out more on the website smithsonian associates.org as well as on

facebook, instagram and twitter. we will also post a link in the chat box that brings me to the next item. i will quickly mention a few features about how we run our programs. first look for theof chat box at the top or bottom of the screen. we will be checking throughout the program. a box inlso a q and the session after the presentation. we encourage you to submit questions through thees presentation and we will get through as many as we can. tonight's program features closedu captioning or closed caption icon on the bottom of the toolbar and i'd like to let you know that there will be a survey when yout exit that we encourage you to complete. we appreciate your feedback as we learn more about this platform and now let me tell you about the speaker tonight. the temple grandin is a professor of animal science at colorado state university and thees author of "the new york times" bestsellers animals and

translations which became an hbo movie starring claire danes. she's been a pioneer in improving the welfare of animals as well as outspoken advocate for the autism community. she has the newest book visual thinking the people who think in pictures patterns and abstractions is out now and available for purchase from our partner bookseller politics and prose and it is in the chat. now without further delay, please welcome doctor temple grandin. >> it's great to be here and talk to everybody tonight on zoom and i appreciate if you can get the slides up so i can see them and i'm going to be talking about different kinds of thinking.te this is something that interests me. i am an extreme visual thinker. everything i think about the picture and when i was a little kid i was severely autistic and lucky to get into good early

educational programs. i can't emphasize how important that is. i am now a college professor in animal behavior, so i think we will go on to the next slide. the first thing is you have to realize different thinking exists. a lot of people are mixtures of different kinds of thinking but use all the hbo movie it showed exactly how i think. i first started my animal behavior book when i was in my 20s. i thought everybody thought in pictures. i didn't know global thinking existed and i was shocked when i discovered there were a lot of people around that don't think in pictures. that was a complete shock to me. being a visual thinker helped me in my work with animal behavior. and we will go to the next slide. it shows a shadow and i've done a lot of work.

that's a picture of me, a picture taken with my camera and i'm making a shadow that's scaring the cattle. people don't often think of those things.at they don't think to look at what the l animal is seeing because n animal is in a sensory-based world. we don't understand how an animal thinks sensory. some new research has shown the dog actually has a big intellect trunk line from the nose to the visual cortex. three-dimensional pictures, that's really trippy. let's go to the next slide. now the thing is looking at things in engineering mathematical engineers calculated risk individual thinkers can see something that might be a risk. also visual thinkers like me that are terrible at can often

times see how to pick up something too. all my thoughts are pictures, so five years ago i went to visit this launchpad and we were under the launchpad at 7:00 in the morning five years ago and i saw a little motion over a stairway and i saw something in there that should not be in their. and he's on the next slide. a raccoon waddled down the steps and i got to thinking what have you been chewing. nobody knew he was there, that a raccoon was living in the launchpad and there is movement inside of the base with a raccoon that hopefully he didn't do anything to it, but nobody else knew that he was there. that's seeing risk. let's go to the next slide. we need to visual thinkers in a science. i review a lot of articles and we are getting to where there's

more and more mathematics so we will do the most fancy statistics. the most fancy data but you see the devices right here for mixing samples. one has magnets that spin around andap the other contraptions lie a ferris wheel for test tubes. a very expensive cancer study wasui completely ruined because one lab used the magnetic stir and the other used the rotating thing and it totally changed the results. these details matter and that was millions of dollars of research. i'm not very good at doing the math but i make sure that we follow a details. i'm reviewing a paper right now and they haven't told me what's in the feed but this is important and mattersee when you're feeding animals. let's go to the next slide. there's three basic ways of thinking. i am an object visualizer so let's go to the first one.

a lot of people are mixtures. we are good with mechanical things like fixing cars, skilled trade and some of these autistic adults playing video games this is where we need to get them out working on cars and they will find that's more interesting than the video games and a lot of these people so visual thinkers that allow the abstract are good with inventing mechanical equipment, graphic design, working with animals because they don't think in words. these are some of the things we aree good at, totally terrible and higher math and the visual need to solve a lot of practical problems let's keep the water systems working and electrical systems working and we will go on to the next slide.

now mathematical, this would be the engineer that scotty an engineering degree, computer programming, engineering, chemistry, music and math go together. art and mechanics go together. i know that sounds weird and music and math go together. i'm also going to show you later on how the different kinds when they realize these exist can be complementary and many people are mixtures of the different kinds of thinking but then you get the kid that tends to be an extreme. next slide. then the verbal thinkers like psychologists, lawyers, people that think in words and we go on to the next slide. there is research and it's outlined in a chapter in my visual thinking book i'm going to hold it up, visual thinking made to "the new york times" seller list for one week. number seven on hardback and number nine on a print.

the research showed this to different types of visualizers. ones like me and the mathematical ones that stay in abstract. owgo to the next slide. how do you figure out what kind you are, a lot of people are mixtures but one kind of thinking tends to be dominantt. and there's been discussions in the schools about are we going to teach phonics or whole words it would be a good idea to teach different. the kid that's different like me needed phonics. let's go to the next slide. turns out i have a visual in my brain. there's another picture for the visual thinking. and i will go on to the next slide let'ske look at how you prefer to take in information. an object visualizer like me if

i'm tryingg to show you how a water pump works you would rather lookhe at the pictures. the verbal finger and the mathematical spatial line they tend to look at both the diagrams and the text. go to the next slide now let's looker at the different kind of thinkers like the design this is a very interesting study with high school students and a specialist or to schools, science, high school and humanities program very language based. the art t students working in fantastic plans. not very much imagery described as gravity and other factors and the humanity students make these flashes of color. inin the beginning they use wors

and then erase it because it's supposed to be an art project, not words. next slide. of the thing that is interesting is a verbal thinkers are very top-down and they tend to over generalize. i get questions all the time how do you teach autistic kids. we have a little kid that's 3-years-old and a kid that is super good at math and needs to be moved ahead. i need to have more information and both of the object of visualizers and mathematicians are bottom-up. the concept with specific examples to put them on a spreadsheet like specific examples of good and bad behavior for example. and you can put them in different categories like robbing a bank is worse than may maybe spitting on the sidewalk.

when the patent office first started the object visualizers like me, the very mechanical people ruled making things like agrain harvesting, machines tht are mechanical devices. now we've got a lot of people in tech and computer programmers. visual thinking can make the simple interface. the more mathematically inclined programmers so we will go to the next slide. it's a mechanical device controlled by' the computer, not just rolling computers. they absolutely can't do algebra and i've done a lot of work on

the meatpacking plants designing equipment but barely graduated from high school they might have taken a single class and are inventing equipment. two parts of engineering this clever engineering department and then there's the degreed engineer doing the more mathematical parts of engineering. i came to the realization this is a lot of s stuff that we stopped making. we will go to the next slide. how about the state-of-the-art electronic chip making machine. the next slide shows the mechanical gadgets that have worked for our non-mathematicians to do. the same thing is true for plants like right now you want a poultry plant or pork processing

plant it's going to come from holland and the reason for that is you can go to the university in holland or tech and they don't stick their nose up at them. we've got a gigantic shortage right now plumbers, electricians, people that maintain the stuff, heating and air-conditioning. all the people that i call the clever engineers. the other thing about the autistic is he is in charge of the water system that's going to be the most important thing in his life. go to the next slide and we are not making this. in 2019 just before covid shut everything down come of thise equipment is all imported, highways, most from holland. we are paying the price for

taking shop classes and all the hands-on classes out of the schools. there's a lot of retired people out there. the school won'ten do it we take the cars out of the garage intod the mechanic starts teaching this and i'm concerned we have kids growing up today that are going to be making things when they've never used a tool. this isn't good and they are going to be making decisions in the future about really important stuff that involves practical things. we sold the parachute here, but the fabric was woven on high-tech european looms made in the uk. let's go to the next slide and then a steve jobs theater this was my fourth stop on my trip

right before covid closed everything down. those have no columns and they were built in germany. there's a lot of fire equipment coming out and we will have problems fixing. the roof is from dubai and what we did in education 25 years ago taken out shop classes, welding and auto mechanics and what's going on now? and other big mistake the industry made was shutting down in-housewh engineer like we used to have this giant place built and patented and designed equipment that's gone now and now we are paying the price for taking out. in-house engineering and taking out shop classes.

we have to have people to repair all that equipment. these are the classes we need to get back. cooking, sewing, woodworking, welding, theater. i talked to somebody the other day where there kid went into technical theater and anti autistic kid all the people backstage that make the lights work and everything they got interested because their school had a. theater program. the exposed people to possible careers. i'm seeing too many kids that getting an autism diagnosis and they are not learning how to do anything. they get too overprotected. one end of the spectrum you've got einstein and at the other end you have somebody that cannot dress themselves that has much more severe problems. let's go to the next slide. the problem is my kind of

thinker cannot do algebra. i would be screened out of a lot of programs like california right now i don't know if i could graduate from high school but the thing is we need mathematicians and my kind of mind. 50% of community college students need remedial math. if this kid has to take remedial math maybe he won't ever get into a a car mechanics class. so the next slide. my grandfather was an inventor of the auto pilot for airplanes and was an mit mathematical trained. he worked with another guy who was probably autistic who came up with this crazy idea for autopilot. people in aviation thought it was ridiculous and they tinkered with it and finally got it to work then it was stolen. ..

the object visualizers like me design the layout. in the global medical while hold shops for these people. most graduate from high school, that is it. high end skilled trades in one place don't need a college degreere. then you visual spatial man thinkers are stem kids they become the great engineers. well, the got to engineered the boilers for refrigeration food processing calculate the route power and water. that we know how to do. but the stuff inside is where their problems. next slide. so let's look at thiski book,

visual thinking. betsy lerner, my verbal thinking co-author really help me with this. i would do the first draft by associating things. andsa then betsy would straightn out all of mine. that's different kinds of minds working together. you can take betsy and turn her into a visual thinker, no. you're not going to turn me into betsy and make me absolute linear. there is some learning you can do. the most valuable thing to do is realize the thinking is a different and collaborates. and using the skills and a complementary manner. will go to the next slide. so let's look at who builds a building for the architects that make it pretty creative. big picture a statics engineers are going to make sure it doesn't fall down. the electrical systems are going to work right the walls are sturdy enough, punctuality.

you need to have both you looked inside the space station it is a functional it's not very pretty. designed by engineers. elon musk makes his stuff much prettier. bidding a little bit of the architects site into it. let's go to the next slide. 20% of the people i i work with working on equipment i design 20% of these people, skilled metalworkers but laid out whole entire factors autistic dyslexic or adhd. we need those skills. owned metal companies. when i show the slides to business leaders and i impress upon them you need these skills computer companies, airlines, banks, pharmaceutical companies there's all different kinds of companies. and we need all these different

skills. some different kinds of learners you need them. like with a steel meal for for example. how old areru your mechanics the problem is the people i work with are tiring out. they're not getting replaced for there's a connection at the kid at the autism level playing video games in the basements and needing someone to fix elevators and escalators. the next time you go to the airport of the big department store, you see someone fixing an elevator let's see how old they are. we are not getting enough young people coming in to replace us seniors. i am 75 rightoweo now. people ask me what do you want to do what's important to you? what's important to me right now is helping the young kids that think differently getting into great careers or they can do positive contributions. let's go to the next slide.

i find grandparents ask me all the time, they discover their autistic when the kids get diagnosed and they had good jobs. too many kids get a label to overprotected they're not learning shopping. they're not learning bank accounts. they are not learning laundry. just basic skills. they're not learning them. let's go to the next slide. andat the thing i went to ask yu is what would happen to some the top filmmakers in today's education system. what would happen to einstein today? no language until age three he had been the autism program today. you can argue about whether not he is autistic but he would be in a program. where is he going to end up? you need somebody to give him more advanced math. let's go to the next slide. michael angelo, grubby little kid dropped out of school at age 12. he was running on all the churches in great art, that is

exposure. create career start with exposure first and then mentor in i had great mentors. i'd great teachers when i was young i had a speech teacher help me get speech at age four. i'd great third-grade teacher, had a great science teacher. i got motivated to study for that's a wonderful mentors. but i got into the cattle industry because i got exposed to it when i was a teenager. i don't like lentils exposed to great art he grew up a stone cutting tools we got kids growing up today have never used a tool. let's go to the next slide. the girl in my class lester had never use a ruler or a tape measure to measure anything. steve jobs is probably on the autism spectrum. folate and teased in school. einstein they both had creative hobbies he loves calligraphy einstein we do math problems with his playing the violin. let's go to the next slide. thomas edison dropped out of school he probably had autism

but he learned how to work at a young age. he also had mentors. i can think of all the people i worked with the electrical genius and a big factory he could fix anything electrical. we need those people. so the next light. teslaou elon musk's come out and said hehe is on the autism spectrum. s he was bullied in school. his chef down the stairs and had his nose all smashed and probably on the autism spectrum. this is the problem with growth autism spectrum. you've got extreme talent on one end you've got people with very, very severe disabilities on the other end that cannot dress themselves they cannot do normal activities. go to the next light. but they all called the same thing. arc to foster scientific success we need all the hands on classes in the schools for a nobel prize winner's 50% more likely to have an arts and craft hobby compared to other scientists. that is another reason for

keeping all the classes, will go to the nexte. slide. now let's give you tips for working with minds that are different. again i've shown this slide to a lot of famous leaders. you need these. don't put that person mcdonald's take-out window.or do not stick them in a crazy during holidays because they absently cannot hold the task. not burden with long strings of vocal information i cannot remember it. give me a pilot's check list with bullet what i am supposed to do. being vague does not work. you cannot say you're not a team player. you need to say when he criticizes jim in the project meeting called him stupid that's not acceptable. i was brought up social skills training, let's say i started my drink with my finger. they didn't scream no shoots that use the spoon, other people think that's gross when you do

thato . through the next slide. what is the ultimate goal of education? where's ainin student 10 years r high school? i was out in the projects an hbo movie. which is now available on amazon prime. go to the next slide. so when you are weird i had to bypass the conventional interview process and show people my work. i learned how to sell my work rather than myself. and a lot of people on the spectrum are self-employed. they raise small companies to big companies. but they were self-employed. then you have to get somebody from the business side of the business, that was often the spouse or they had hire somebody to do that. to keep things organized. someone has to pay bills,

negotiate prices with mentors, toto all cap different kinds of stuff like that. go to the next slide. now, this is a drawing i used to sell car deals on having made design the front end of every single cart deal in north america. i think that's doing pretty well for somebody who they thought was retarded and was not going to amount to anything. but the thing is showing the strong to the hr department does not do any good. you got to show to the plant manager or the engineer. the people who are going to appreciate it. link have to show the work to the right person. that's how i got t jobs, go to e next slide. i'm going to show some the photos i stuck in the portfolio. let's say you are a programmer. you show off some of your best code. not a huge book full of code one page of your very best code neatly presented.

that is really good. go to the next slide. they duplicated my project for the movie. they build all of my projects but hbo movie shows exactly how i think. there's a whole chapter in visual chapter on disasters. the nuclear power plant disaster would have been prevented if he had one of type fours be the mathematical engineers and a great job of making earthquake proof. perfect, it worked. and then 20 minutes later lisa nominee came over the seawall, flooded the basement. the electric or emergency cooling pump. not going to work on the water. watertight doors. something so simple i can understand because i see you then. if they hadm, had them it would not have happened. that is why you need people like me sent hate you better put

watertight doors on this thing. let's go to the next slide. a nice show my brochure, go to the next slide. too that you have it on your phone. you're going to end on that slide ingo questions i'm pretty sure we have lots and lots of time now for doing questions. collects excellent, thank you so much. yes we do have a few questions if you put your questions in yet. someone is asking about education and talking about if there's anything you are excited about in our education system? quick there's a lot ofer really dedicated teachers. but i am concerned were getting into the teaching to the test are getting so much emphasis on higher mathematics.

you mayca be screening out somef the best veterinarians because they can visualize what is wrong with the animal. i'my especially concerned gettig screened out we've got gigantic here's a question from linda and the question answer that i'm going to answer. linda said as everyone in the autism spectrum a visual thinker? no. that was a mistake that i made one or thinking in pictures 25 years ago but everyone on the spectrum is noter an interest thinker. everyone on the spectrum tends to be in extreme. like an extreme optic visualizer but also people in the spectrum that are extreme mathematicians. just put up a thing about putting spaces and museums. i think that's absolute wonderful. when i went to harvard to talk

about my visual thinking book they had a space in the physics lab. here's this room labeled physics lab. in there all the 3d printers. they had sewing machine and crocheting. realizing the maybe ship the hands online. now, my kind of mind can go to the industrial sign department. that is the visual side of designing things. i'm a big believer and maker spaces. we've got too many kids to that growing up who have never used a tool for their totally removed from the world of practical. i get asked all of the time what has happened the common sense? i think part of the problem is losing common sense. common sense is visuall thinkin. let's say the spilled water on the grocery store for the want to clean it up they can see someone could slip on that. that would be simple visual

thinking. here's another question for joe and shelf autistic person is a visual thinker? you cannot tell and 3-year-old heard by the time they are seven or eight visual thinkers are good at labels but sort mathematical thinkers. he would base autistic person that person does not care about labels. also the visual thinkers are good at drawing. and the mathematical thinkers are good at math. those kids need to be moved ahead into higher math. that is something we need to be doing more. who need to develop the skills they are good at. exposing kids to lots of different things especially kids who learn differently. kind of see what they gravitate towards. jeaninee asked about how to help visualal thinkers connect better with animals? first of all they have to have contact with animals.

i spent a lot of autistic kids that have benefited from dogs. i did a book signing years ago my book animals make it human is costco outside of denver. i was shocked to find out 25 or 30% of the families in the suburb of denver, there were no pets of any kind. not even a mouse, a gerbil, a parakeet or something like that. i also discovered in my children's book, shameless book promoter this is with the grandkids seem to be getting. it's outdoor scientists calling online projects for kids. 20% or so of kids is suburban denver have never made a paper airplane. i think there is a problem here. get them out, get them exposed to lots of different things. studies show it doesn't matter what kind of mind they can all

use learning the same teaching methods. you take extreme mathematicians. and optic visualizer but that's are going have to tailor how you teach them. we've made big mistakes in education. and art making a lot of stuff that we don't make. like a poultry processing plants for example, chipmaking machine, kind of important stuff. >> here's another question from janet who asked you know about what percentage of the us population or object visual, spatial visualizers and verbal thinkers? >> nobody's done any research on that. but some of the research has been done on occupations a lot of them are in the arts. the more mathematical minds

things of that sort. it does kinda shake out by careers. little kids are much more visual thinkers than adults. little kids a language start to override the visual thinking. that does not happen for me. for me words and narrates the that are in my mind. >> there's also another question teachers.out how does one teach teachers to recognize what type of thinking may be best. >> the first thing theyen have o do is you have to realize different things exist. this is the same thing until the business people. or you're going to get the most extreme of different kinds of thinkers three have special ed kids. a lot of smart kids are getting shoved into special ed because what are we going to do? now every state is different not

all states do that stuff, some states do. i am very, very concerned the visual thinkers storms wrecked the wires and stuff like that prevent people like me too put the stuff backk together. this is where we've got a big skill loss. then the other problem i'm seeing the kid gets ae label. they get so locked into that label they can't imagine a kid can do anything. i've a situation you have two parents computer programmers in the tech industry that got an 8-year-old is supersmart and they don't thing to catch teach their kid programming because they are locked in. he got kids that get a label but the skill tends to be an even very good at one thing terrible something else. we need to be building up the thing they are good at, visual thinkers. we all have to go to alternative

energy. well, how are we actually going to do this? the solar panels all the stuff has to beat maintained. that often gets neglected. we just had the top of the windmill falloff where i lived. it had not been maintained. >> going back to trade they're askingg you think electives lie shop and art are falling within the schools because of verbal thinkers are dominant school administration? >> that's part of the reason. here in colorado they took out 20 years ago. twenty -- 25 years ago there twt things that happened but shop classes disappeared. some states are starting to put it back in. texas, minnesota, for example. they check out the shop classes for us in the height of being out in the field on big construction projects. the shop classes going full blast. the company still eed existed.

and then the company no longer existed. and the next owner was not jb s. jbs did not do this. we can just farm the workout. in the short term that makes money per bout went all the people i work with retire, which is happening now, it comes back to bite you. it made money in the short run. but i've got a client right now a beef client, i took one look at their shop they cannot build in their shop the simplest will hydraulic thing i needed. twenty years ago we used to do that. maybe it's a hydraulic nation in the water system running. this is where you need my kind of mind that sucks at math. [laughter]

they have more of the right idea. >> they do a lot of hands-on things. i wentol back and visited my old elementary school they had a beautiful shot. they admitted they were throwback to the 50s. they get a program, shop, sewing, cooking. got too many kids growing up today they are totally removed from the world of practical. serious stuff like electric power. that concerns me. >> absolutely. iis told business leaders the first thing you have to realize is that we need different minds but looks how zoom got invented. the programming mathematicians did not invent simple interface on zoom. that was done by a guy who

worked at webex. webex wouldn't listen gems we started zoom. the simple interface is made by someone like me. on the programmers have to make the thing work. steve jobs was an artist. that's why iphones are easy to use. mathematicians had to make it workct. >> that makes complete sense. cap he has an interesting question but are there any colleges or universities that you know of the developing programs to support alternate thinkers? >> are programs giving some combinations like extra they had at his school. talk to the headmaster of the

school vision of visual thinking how do you think about this, he didn't know it existed. who's going to keep the air conditioning on in your school? brexit is a connection here. >> amy ties on that about the dissemination of knowledge. is there any movement to make textbooks color multiple types of learning the run-of-the-mill school kids then you can use different styles of learning it doesn't seem to matter. or i think it matters as we get there extremes. you get somebody has an extreme mathematician. they're really good at music. the middle of the road kids they can learn the mathis way early on the map another way.

if it's too abstract i don't understand it for the thing is you look at some of our real thought leaders in the past somd were autistic or dyslexic. i am also concerned the verbal thinkers are getting too theoretical. i stated some interesting places on this book to her but i found it interesting hotel to stay out. get a l l key at some kid from e 1930s a local college then you get to have a room full of textbooks. 1930s, electrical engineering book. much more applied. 1930s western literature book, shakespeare's, socrates all the stuff we read today. you should've seen the forward predestined lot of nonsense written about the greeks. got your number all the stuff is written in a language they actually use. real straightforward. i got put in a political science

professor. i never saw such a vagueou abstract stuff about politics. it was not right or left. it did not discuss issues. i just absolutely did not understand. the person is going to be in charge of making a decision about whether we keep our coal-fired power plant that is burning my house right now. checks we have things we have to think about. >> absolutely. >> i can say what i would like to do i'd like to run the lowest possible lever to keep it in good order. keep the expertise. you run it at 10% however so i can run and not mess it up. we'll talk to the visual thinkers that maintain it to find that out. i'm worried about shutting it completely off let's get 80% shut off.

but shutting completely off if we have an emergency at saint ice storm takes out the windmills. you have visualized. it's a nice a power station my student took caree of the property i know how many railcars of coal. that is not abstract. i question completely shutting it down. my approach'th would be what ise lowest i can run it without hurting a client and keep the staff there? if i turn it off it hurts it. this is the problem. and doesn't being turned off. that's a thing a lot of people understand. i don't how slow i can write without messing it up and going to have to talk to some guys in the maintenance shop and they will tell me. >> barbara is asking about,

she's a tutor's sixth grade class. if you have any advice for teachers or tutors to individualize learning for visual learners were also accomplishing required tasks? >> is way too vague. let's talk about something specific. that is too vague. last eight years old i could not read. s i was in third grade. even today in school that relates kids can't read in thirw grade. the will use a hole or in dick and jane books that did not work with me. mother taught with phonics very simply you know your abc song you will already have half the sounds. she'd read some like the wizard of oz outd. loud. it was always sent out loud. obsolete sound out words. she would read a page and i would read five words.

and that worked for me. other kids the whole word is the best way to teach them. this was an autistic kid would read in a different way. the important thing is learning to read and some use a blended us approach. now specific formulas to do specific things describe how generators work. and you have the math there used for that particular problem. >> actually we did get a question for patrice. i think you mentioned a third grade teacher who really helped you pick oxide a great third grade teacher she was wonderful. she wanted to expand what did they do to help you out what was so meaningful?

>> it was a small school and we were taught how to take turns. fruit term taking kind teacher but she basically said mother taught me at home. and start with a book worth reading jack and trent dick and james were is not worth reading. wizard of oz is for just have a book about clara barton eight nurserd. by the end of the semester i went from no reading to sixth grade level reading really quickly. the other thing we are not teaching studentssk today's writing skills. graduate students have terrible writing schools now. write the experiment read it clearly so i can understand it. and i am not the only professor complaining about writing skills for the way i learned to write is my work was marked up and i

had to correct it. i'm finding my students, some of them are smart students, hardly wrote a term paper. never had in them correct the grammar in their paper. read your paper out loud. read yourr paper out loud. it sounds really terrible we need to correct it. >> we have actually quite a few questions. it is hard to get one question is how they really do encourage their visual learners and thinkers to write. is this something that? >> see for me visual thinking i narrate the scenes. if i'm thinking about letson going to describe how to drive to the airport. now i am seeing landmarks along the way.

i am describe there. went to visit some interesting placee. words narrate the pictures. that's how i think. one of the things that spurred me too write the visual thinking book is skill watching. and as lockdown with covid and we had nothing to do. i came to the realization we had a serious skill loss issue. and i said let's write a book. i tell business leaders the first since you've got to realize his people think differently. let's look how they should be complementary. >> absolutely.

and for this fruit non- visual skills, skills that arent usefu. you mentioned the person who never picked up a ruler in their life. >> that was last year. never have you measured anything a tape measure to measure anything. someoneou is asking to have any thoughts on teaching individual skills like taxes and insurance? >> household math, about how to run a business. then people would not be running up all the credit card debt and everything else where thereim ia furniture store that makes me angrier is my drive to the airport. as a side if there are no payments for three years produce soccer them into buying these couches and in the going into

debt. well, i was taught to save money when i was eight. at 50 cents a week for an allowance. these lessons are how important they are. fifty cents a week. we at bible trinkets like comics and toy airplanes. and if i wanted a 59-cent airplane i had to say for two weeks. realizing now how important that was. the ones or ones been the tech track need to learn math. how do you set up a corporation? fortunately had a really good friend that was a contractor and he helpedup me. and it's adding up all the expenses. adding up all the income and taxes. i knew how to do that kind ofth arithmetic. >> rene is sort of bringing up a different similar subject.

we just discussed rulers and the ability to complete tasks. what is a visual overload and perhaps distraction in today's world? >> i'm seeing a lot of these kids end up on disability check playing video games all day. they are not getting fabulous jobs in the video industry if they were i would not be criticizing. i don't think all that stuff replaces real things. i heard about one kid he loved american football. he got a chance to go to an actual game. he found that's really cool. brought the concession stand all by himself. hadn't done that before. kids like to do real things. we are not doing enough of that. not eight hours a day of play

for you might kill this one hour a day. and i am not saying good outcomes. the kids most likely to be get addicted or be visual thinkersat like me should be out building things. now i'm spending a lot of my time going out and doing talks. go out into the beautiful shop. zoom doesn't quite do it. it's really good to get out and see things. 80% on the road different hotel everyht night. source get too stressful. >> absolutely. going back your gayle is asking could you talk a little bit about animal consciousness?

>> the last chapter i discuss animal consciousness. i cannot believe people are still discussing it. cannotdy imagine anyone who thik it's not conscious. i think some of this goes down to visual versus global thinking for if you are a highly verbal thinking for everything you think about is in words. you might have a hard time understanding how to think without words. but is someone who thanks in pictures is easy to imagine how dog would think about words. they do not have verbal language. but animals can plan for the future. they bury it nuts the winter. think about the dog that knows veteran during this cart route goes to the dog park that animals can solve problems under

new novel conditions but think how to make a tool to get a treat hidden down in a glass tube and figure out a way to get it out. they can do that. i think animals are conscious i don't think clams are conscious. think of a certain amount of memories, emotions can merge together. or like an airport hub. the hub airport. all networks form whether it's facebook, airports, i can member before they had airports. or the nervous system. in the certain amount of association. i'll think clams got that. octopuses probably are symbian. guard consulting on animal welfare.

is therere some other process? >> am trying to imagine the dog with an internet with pictures this three dimensional spell pictures. i've got this grazing animals are important part of the sustainable agricultural future. they can improve. yes they put out methane. so the melting tundra and swamps. he's got to use a light. you useal grazing animals and yu improve land. the other thing of people complain is the cattle and that sheep andan the other grazers te up too much land. 20% of the earth surface cannot

be cropped to can only be grazed. not enough groundwater cotton on the water coming from the sky. people don't think about that. >> we have a comment from carolyn you mentioned bison to thank you for your work. it's much better for the animals. >> they chased him all around the places you can feed them and corrals need to shut the gate. that is something i see that solution. this is were reading my kind of mine to visualize the way to fix

things. can leave all the nonsense they are talking about no and sat down what piece of equipment. what was it? if you know that before he can make a rational decision on the ones of the easiest to fix, to winterize. no one discuss that. you see that is so abstract you are not solving a problem. allve of that equipment will be easy to winterize. it might be impossible to winterize. but you have to know goes first. people making decisions what exact thing and how difficult would it be to winterize? >> absolutely. quickset never got discussed.

i get scared and look at the books is on the political science professor's office. somebody is all that verbal abstractness is going to make a decision aboutt power plants that's the right decision? got things to reduce carbon coal use. and it be nice if our coal-fired power plants had a lot less coal. at this point i would question shutting it completely down. i am thinking we could have a website to reduce electricity we put two train cars less coal in the air today. you see i see that. >> actually going to communication and communicating how can people of different thinking and direct better with others?

>> have different or approaches to problem-solving. will enable us to have books and libraries to make it possible ts do things like flight to the moon, but not going to do that anytime soon. because it enable us to store and animals can't do that. >> someone else's asking for those of us who are more visual how well do you have to know the problem before you can visualize likely solutions? >> a visual thinkers a bottom-up thinker. the more things i learned about like at age 50 and thought i could think better at age 20 because i have more visual things more visual pictures in my database. it's kind like an artificial

intelligence system. going to trying to diagnose melanoma, cancer. you have got to show it all kinds of melanomas and then you show other kinds of skin rash. the better the data set is let's go back to the power plant i don't know coal car is a visual thinker gets wisdom the more stuff they read about and converts and stuff they see. then you can associate itoc together. you have to have data in the database to associate. you got to figure how to design a piece of equipment and it works like something else for example. >> the foundation. >> that's where the kids seem to get out and see all kinds of stuff. and then they can think up all

kinds of different ways to do things for that got a lot of information in the database. it's a bottom-up thinker. it takes a lot of data to make a bottom-up thinking work. >> absolutely. so, moving on to employment someone is asking, have you talked of many ceos in the teens what kind of actions do you see them take after words? >> the a tech industry they brig in people and have light contests on programming, workshops and things like this people come to work. similar things might have spaces near people show off stuff. we're going to have to change in the interview process to get some the best minds are best mechanic for example, maybe he needs to show the other mechanics the custom car he

built. that me showing the work. i find some companies are really, really flexible about their interview process. but the thing i try to impress upon them in the same with my cattle hand is that one of the reasons for better cattle handling is it makes money also cut your workmen's comp. down. >> continuing. >> i convinced them being good to cattle would make money. and we need some of these skills. i did not realize how bad the skill loss was and so it's a two pork plant and chicken plant and that was a big light bulb moments. chipmaking machine this goes

back in the educational system. high skill end is for the few places you don't need a college education. you can end up with a corporate jet. this is something to get educators we need different kinds of thinkers. and especially now with energy and things like this. we need to do things like this are going tos work. you got somebody the first step is realizing different kinds of thinkers exist. a lot of people are mixtures. but usually one kind of thinker predominates. and you really get talking about. some people are true mixtures. you get a truth label they are

going to be something extreme. "we tonight some individuals o thought there fully or close to being fully visual thinkers. they have now realized it's a combination, thatt mix. >> a lot of people i've talked to are mixed. until some of this research they think the stylesr don't matter and take a run of all of the students. that may not matter. you take somebody like me abstract algebra is pounding away. there is nothing visually to relate that too. his problems i cannot remember it. the graphics file in order to remember something. but then on the other hand what would happen to einstein today in today's educational system.

i think that's a real worry. interpreting meacham exposing elementary school the to wait till community college is almost too late then our community college are still in colorado the buildings that they can't find anyone to teach the welding. that was in september. i was at a beef meeting we were discussing it. and they took away the requirement they had to have a college education they cannot find anyone to teach welding. >> someone saying it makes so much sense to hear talk about exposing kids to enhance on careers et cetera. >> in theater and music. i was exposed to musical instruments, that didn't really

work for me i could never figure how to play the flute. and another kid takes off with it. but you don't know unless they are exposed. my big believer to exposing kids a whole lot of different things. and see what they kind of gravitate towards. the thing on an autistic person what his help me is having a really interesting career. having friends who shared interest. i think of this great airplane flight i had this year. i sat next to a lady construction manager that's a really good plane ride. that is sharedd interest. her talk to somebody about their cattle. that is shared interest. >> i love that.

>> someone is actually talking about standardized tests. given that standardized test welike sat they towards verbal thinkers. >> the other thing on these math requirements i originally wanted to go into engineering. i had to drop in engineering class. i majored in psychology to get away from the mouth. and fortunately i had a fabulous animal behavior class. my little tiny college to start up school a retired harvard professor taught animal behavior. i was very lucky i had that class. exposure. example of it was my favorite class. it was just luck that class was

there. he was a retiree and walked very slowly with a cane. and he introduced me too animal behavior. you see that is exposure. >> we have some insane even of exposure does not lead to a new skill it can increase appreciation and understanding. because important people tried this i hate it. i think it's also important for students to find that out. a lotot of parents want their ks to be a doctor they shadow a doctor say can't stand working in this practice. you 15 minutes to see each patient. it's just terrible and it's not for me. >> we have a question about the book. it iswa about putting it togeth.

was there anything you wanted to include in it you were not able to can include? >> we include a lot of stuff in it. it was really wonderful working with betsy. the thing is i learn more about how betsy thanks. and the only way i think this is a concern of policymakers, that betsy can understand a physics process, let's say at leverage. betsy and i were on third grade children school websites on leverage. she could only understand it when i'd say becky retaken the screwdriver and pride pried the lid off paint? that is leverage. then she understood it. she had to relate it back to something she had actually done. now, let's say we have a thinker in the have to make some very serious decisions about energy. that is very scary to me if they

have totally been removed from the world of practical. also, a member talking to betsy about her daughter. before she had one. i don't think she could imagine thinking i said you take your dog out let off the leash and run, watch what smells, watch what it does. having that real experience open up a big door for her. something i learned and working with someone who's a pure verbal thinker. i am not think betsy should she is a book agent. but let's of the total verbal c verbal thinker is working on theyy be very concerned if were totally removed from the world practical. we need all the different kinds of minds. and then i need to improve my

writing. they took a red pen and marked up my work. i thanked him for that. i thank them. >> of someone who is asking if you have any advice to someone autistic young adults are someone who is diagnosed later in life you might be struggling to figure out dealing with adulthood. >> one of the big problems is making the transition to the world of work. i'm seeing a lot of situations where autistic students do really well and then they lose it in the workplace for me too start to transition to work before they graduate high school. starting with chores for little kids, volunteer jobs on a schedule outside the home like 11 years old. b real jobs when they are legal of age. and let's say youtt have an adut it's not getting out of the house, playing too many video games. let's introduce cart mechanics.

that's one of the few things that successfully got them off the video games. there is one of them now fixing trains for the railroad. but, give them some choices. always scared to try new things my mother had a very good sense of just how much to stretch me too do new things. but we need to be at work on the transition to work. way too many parents way too much overprotective kids. and they are not learning shopping for the not learning laundry, they are not learning basic skills because they are overprotected. now, what you don't want to do is shock them into a chaotic take-out window. that is where you don't wantli them. that is likely to fail. there's too much multitasking and i don't have a processor speed to handle the multitasking. >> another person is asking

about what kind of education you think children and young and adults need to be good to citizens in a good democracy? >> let's just teach basic be kind to others the golden rule treat others the way you want to be treated. okay that's treating others how you would want to be treated. being nice. i'm seeing a little boutique both at the airport you buy these hats and shirts and stuff that say be kind. i always have to relate it back to we need to teach kids to be polite, what i have learned to do is i have learned there are some issues i can have a friend but we can disagree on certain issues. but will have shared interests and other things. just brought up what is a good person?

a good person doesn't throw trash around there not mean to other people. these are just real basic things. treat others the way you want to be treated for that is the gold rule in plain language. every religious tradition has it. treat others the way you want to be treated for you do unto others as they do and she was the old-fashioned way of saying it. but that can be taught one specific example at a time. i am saying a man's money clip right now rolling rent on an x-ray table with his credit card and license and i grabbed it and they gave it to the tsa officer and said you need to make an announcement disguised credit cards and stuff arehe here. and they did. i'm sure that guy was very grateful to get his credit card and his license back. at another time i found a while in a ladies bathroom and i took

it to the information desk and she got it back. that took some extra time to do that. >> absolutely. >> are thing specific examples i helped a guy with alzheimer's navigate minneapolis airport one time. it was on a flight by himself which she should never have been. complicated connection in minneapolis. >> one question that i love it is from doing this research, from writing this book is there anythingou that really makes you optimistic about the future or something you're really excited about potentially? >> i am excited about -- what makes me really happy is when my kids fixing trains for the krailroad. i get excited about concrete things my kids working for a computer company. and your book help that kid get to that goal. that's the main thing i want to

help the kids that are different get into good careers. and we also need to be doing things to help the world. you ho give one of your toys away to a poor kid and a big manger for presents. and they said, it's better to give than to receive. you know, we collected money for unicef when i was a little kid, i you see we see my it's pictures that come up when i think about this being way too much greed. now, what i learned very early on when i first started my twenties, i had some very rich that i designed crowns. i found out that we are jet that was the hot airplane in the seventies. and a couple of barons in your are just another hot airplane from the seventies just my happ 70sin does not buy happiness.

there were rich clients designing corrals. jets do not buy happiness. one ofir the guys i know that lived next to my aunt's ranch in a beautiful part of the world, he was really happy and everybody loved him. he was an x-ray technician and had health insurance. you've got to have your basics. that he had. he wasas the happiest, nicest person, and he had a very bad leg prosthesis and i realized he could barely walk and that's why the horse was always tied up outside because he couldn't take the truck he would have to ride

thed horse. he had a prosthetic leg and it wasn't a good one but he would fix anybody's car, washing machine, stuff broken at the ranch, like the water pump. he handed the basics. health insurance, a steady job as an x-ray technician. and he had reliable health insurance. he didn't have to worry about that. but he didn't have a fancy house. they had old cars they fixed up, but he did keep them running. so you have to have your basics. but i've worked with some very rich people and they have airplanes in their hangers and it didn't buy happiness. i learned that in my 20s. maybe that's good that i learned

that. >> host: good lessons. >> guest: also the idiot that built his corrals in the mud holedo and i told him not to dot and he did it anyway. and he stiffed me out $200. >> host: another valuable lesson. >> guest: it was a good lesson. that stuff doesn't buy happiness but you have to have the basics not worrying about if you get a health problem you won't be able to pay for it. i think about these things in specific examples. it's not abstract but then the more pictures i get in my mind the better you're able to think.

ttwhen the internet first startd there wasn't much in it. that's the way the visual thinkers. fill with things i read and experience. we need to teach kids to do good things. that's what we need to be doing. >> host: it is. we have a few more minutes, so i want to make sure you have an opportunity to say anything about the book that you might have. you might want to talk about, or anything in particular about writing this. >> guest: i did the rough

drafts and, you know, some people say where is the science with a different kinds of thinking really do exist. i've got a bunch of studies and the fine studies show you have to use keywords objectivity and visual-spatial. if you use visual thinking on the scientific database you don't find the papers. you have to use the term object visualizer and then you will find them. but i worked with all kinds of people that graduated from high school with big complicated stuff. i was out on these jobs. they were brilliant. they couldn't do algebra even the guy with a corporate jet. flying around in a corporate

jet, and these are complicated jobs. during the '90s i was living out on construction projects. and staying in really crafty motels. they didn'tus have the fairfiels and hamptons. my work was before that time. the thing i loved is the places where the truckers stay they didn't rip you off on tv. you would get free cable. that's aboutink all the time we have. >> guest: i hope i got a lot of people thinking and i recommend getting the book hopefully it will get you to think about thingsff differentl. and the other thing on the schools thing what are we going to do to change it maybe we need

to start in thela neighborhoodsf car repair places, places and art studio exists, a theater for kids. these are things that need to be started. my mother did theater in the neighborhood for the for the kids. these were not expensive things to do. i talked to a teacher that was frustrated because her mom wouldn't let her have paint because they get messy. kids like doing those kind of things. 4h is a great program and you get to the county extension service. they raise chickens in the backyard. there's all kinds of things that you can do.

>> host: >> guest: there is a lot of retirees that might find teachingng mechanics is more interesting than golf or bridge or some other thing. iab never could figure bridge o. that ist too abstract for me. never could figurere out how to play. >> host: i don't think you're the only one. >> guest: more mathematical abstract thinkers y but think about things you could just do in the neighborhood. mymy mother had a great time having the kids do plays. we had a little fair at a school and she got to the kids together and they put on a show of the wizard of oz. >> host: a classic. >> guest: i remember the hat the wizard was made out of green

hat box. it wasn't expensive stuff. think of the stuff you could make out of all the amazon boxes. >> host: absolutely. >> guest: have enough of them and you can put them together for the most of giant legos. >> host: perfect backdropm for a set. >> guest: and you could paint them. do it outside. i went to a makers space one time and third grade kids were ignoring the electronics and they were over cutting up washing machine boxes with blades that had been taped. one and has a lot of tape so the child could cut with a box safely. they cut that heavy cardboard with it and they were having a great time.

boxes are free. stuff like that we just do in the neighborhood. one teacher took her kindergartners out on a field trip to learn about parking meters andg. how people had to y for parking. the kids thought that was fabulous to learn about that. teaching in the city. in my outdoor scientist book let's go out and look at the city. it costs nothing. and how to observe animal behavior. there's all kinds of things you can just do in the neighborhood. >> host: as you mentioned earlier, theater, other

activities -- >> guest: cooking, sewing, woodworking, knitting, raising chickens, for age, maybe showing an animal, art, music. here in colorado they collect for low income schools. there's all kinds of things that can be done in the neighborhood. >> host: exactly. >> guest: and getea to some kids headed down a bad path, they need responsible adults to be role models. >> host: today more than ever. >> guest: my science teacher wasig a good mentor that got men thein right track that gave me interesting projects to do, and then i got motivated to study. still couldn't dos algebra buti got good grades and all the other classes. >> host: well, thank you, a

temple, for a wonderful presentation and conversation that is about all the things we have. we are getting a bunch of thank youse. it was wonderful to see and hear from you in the chat. and a reminder, there's a politics and prose link for the book in the chat as well as a discount code. if you enjoyed today's program, please contribute and thank you again for a wonderful, wonderful time. >> guest: thank youas very, very much. it was absolutely great being here by zoom and thank you all for coming.

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