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c-span2. fi aull schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime a booktv.org. ♪♪ >> there are a lot of places to get political information but only c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you're from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> good evening and thank you for joining us. i'm thrilled to welcome you to today's program doctor temple. a sincere thank you more than ever, as your support that keeps us going, associates did not funded it reliess on donations

and membership support to bridge the gap between program expenses to get revenue. if you mightht be welcome. i invite you to explore a wide range of programs we offer coming members to support our work with hundreds of learning experience is every year. you can find more at the eventte on our website, smithsonian associates.org and facebook, instagram and twitter. we will post a link in the text box. i want to mention a few features zoom so you're clear how we run our program. first, look to the checkbox at the top of bottom of your screen. we have links and messages throughout the program. there's a q&a to draw yourr questions after the presentation. we encourage you to some questions throughout the presentation get to as many as we can.s s tonight's program features closedyo captioning, click the close t caption icon on the

toolbar and i'd like to let you know there will be a survey when you exit the program, we encourage you to complete. we appreciate your feedback. learncks more, all let me tellu tonight about our speaker. he's a professor of animal science at colorado state university and author of the new york times best sellers in translation, animals make us human, bring in pictures which became an hbo movie. he's been a pioneer in the form animals and outspoken advocate for the autism community resides in fort collins, colorado. the newest book, visual thinking those who think in pictures, it's out now and available for purchase from politics andan pre and the link is in the check. welcome doctor temple grandin. >> it's great to be here tonight

and talk to everybody on zoom and appreciate getting your size up to ilk can see them. i'll talk about different kinds of thinking and this is something that interests me. i am an extreme visual thinker. everything i think about. when i was a little kid, i was artistic and lucky to get into very good educational programs (that is i am now a college professor, and animal behavior so i think iou will go on, up nt and the first thing you have to realize different thinking exists. a lot of people are mixtures of different kinds of thinking will oncome our stream visualizers ad on a movie about me, it shows how i think. resume 20s, i thought

everybody thought in pictures, i didn't know verbal thinking existed as i wase shocked when i discovered a lot of people think in t pictures. that was a shock to me. being a visual thinker helped me in my work and will behavior. we will go to the next slide and it shows a shadow. i've done a lot of work. that's a picture of me in the picture with my camera and i'm making a shadow that's scary the cattle. a lot of people don't think to look at what b the animal is sen because an animal lives in another world, they don't understand how an animal thinks, we all know what dogs know they are sensitive but new research has shown the dog actually has a line like the visual cortex. three

dimensional pictures, that's really tricky. the thing is, looking at engineering, mathematically defined engineers calculate, visual thinkers could see things like this. also visual thinkers like w me were terrible at algebra often times and see how to fix something. five years ago i went to the launchpad that has a rocket on it and we are under it at 7:00 a.m. five years ago and i saw motion on the stairway and i saw something in their, this should not be in the end he's on the next slide, a raccoon waddling and i got tos thinking.

nobody knew the raccoon was living in the launchpad and inside was a raccoon and hopefully he didn't do anything to it but nobody else knew he was there. we need visualnc thinkers. we are getting to where there's more and more so all mathematical stuff, you see these two devices from mixing samples. one has a magnet that spins around in a contraction ferris wheel for test tubes and very expensive cancer study was ruined because one lab used the magnetic and the other the rotating. it totallysu changed results. these details matter, billions of dollars worth of research. i'm not good at doing the math but i make t sure to follow the

details. they have not told us, this is really important and it matters. next slide. there are three basic different ways too think and i am an objet visualizer. a lot of people are mixtures. my thinker thinks in pictures, fixing cars and you've got artistic the bolts that hold up video games, this is where we need a retired mechanic get them out working on cars and they will find that more interesting than the videogame and so all of these people are staying in a basement doing this, they are not going into great careers in the videogame industry so visual thinkers like me allows after math good with inventing mechanical, graphic design, working with animals because you

don't think in words and photography, these are the things we're good at. terrible and higher math and visual thinkers similar to me are needing practical problems. let's keep our systems working. next slide. a mathematical thinker, an engineer with an engineering degree, chemistry, physics, music and math go together. art and mechanics goei together. music and masco together. i'm going to show you different kinds to be complement three. many people are mixtures but then you get the kid with the label, they tend to be extreme. thnext slide. love writers, psychologist, lawyer, teacher, people who

think in words and we go to the next slide. there's research outlined in chapter in my visual thinking book and it made the new york times bestseller list forer one week number seven at number nine on the e-book. i was pleased about that but research shows there's two different types of visualizers. ones like me and more mathematical ones who think an abstractgo patterns. how do you figure out what kind you are? one kind of thinking tends to be dominant and there are discussions with got to teach phonics or whole words anddi its a good idea. thee kids with mixtures, they might be able to read with these but the kids are different.

a visual in my brain, visual thinking on other side of that. there's another picture of thent internet visual thinking and we will go on to the next slide. let's look how you prefer to take in information. object visualizer like me, if i show you how the water pump works for example, he would look at the diagram. the mathematical spatial mind looks at both, both diagrams and pictures. let's look at the different thinkers, this is an interesting done with high school students in art school, science in high school or humanities program languished based and art

students make them fantastic, with crystals and polar bears on it, science students through it around, not thinking critically, describing how the end of the factors. humanities students make splashes of color. in the beginning the use words and erase it because it was not working. the thing that's interesting is verbalrb thinkers are top-down, they tend to over generalize. how do you teach autistic kids? who got a little kids three years old, kids good at math, maybe they need to be moved ahead in math, i need more information. both optic visualizers and mathematicians are. there are concepts with specific examples and put them on a list

may be specific examples of good and bad behavior for example and you can put them in different categories like robbing a bank much worse than sitting on the sidewalk for example. i have to use specific examples. next slide. when the office first started, optic visualizers like me, the mechanical people ruled making things like equipment, sewing machines, things that are mechanical. now we have people in tech like computer programmers and even tech like zoom, visual thinkers are simple. more mathematically inclined are appropriate.

a 3d printer. 3d printer is a mechanical device controlled by a computer a car is not just a rolling computer, it's a mechanical device with electronics and it. next slide. i'm concerned we are screening out my kind of thinker because i absolutely can't. i've done a lot of work designing equipment and all kinds of people are working in the shop barely graduating from high school anden then taken a single open class and they are inventing equipment. there are two parts of engineering. there's the degreed engineer doing a more mathematical part of engineering. next slide. i came toat the realization there's a lot of stuff we've stopped making like we don't make thear state-of-the-art 3d systems.

next slide. thinking machine and the next slide shows mechanical cap. for non- mathematicians to do the same for food processing plants but right now the processing plant is going to come from poland and the reason is you can go to the university artechec. gigantic source right now, who maintain that, eating and air conditioning, all the people who call it clever engineering forgot to keep the water systems running. the other thing is the autistic kid is in charge of the water system and that's the most.

not making. go to the next. in 2000 making code shut everything down. we are paying the price to take shot glasses and hands-on classes out of the course. a lot of retired people other schools won't do it, they get the cars out of the garage and retire mechanics and teach alexa how to fix a car or something else start the cookingo class o got to get kids back doing hands-on things. i'm concerned with got kids growing up today will who have never looked will this is not good and they will make decisions in the future about importance of practical things.

next slide. we sewed the parachute here but the fabric was woven on high-tech european made in the uk. next slide. then i went to this theater, my fourth stop in 2019 right before covid close everything down, structural glass walls of the g building has no columns, they were designed and built in, a lot of equipment coming out and we will have problems getting parts for it and the roof is from god, the connection here of what we did in education 25 years ago taking out shop classes auto mechanics and what's going on now? in the industry made shutting down in-house engineering like

here in fort collins we used to have a giant the company is no longer was patented and designed, they built equipment that's gone n now and now we are paying the price. in-house engineering and taking out shop classes and building all of these factors will have to have people to repair them. next slide. these are classes we need to get that. cooking, sewing, woodwork. welding, theater. i talked to somebody the other day for the kid went into technicalan theater, and autistc kid and the people backstage makingte lights work and everything he was because the school had a theater program.

all the kids to possible careers. i see too many kids getting an autism diagnosis. there over and of the system you have the other end of somebody we're all. the problem is my kind of thinker cannot. i've been screened out of a lot of programs. right now i don't know if i could collect a high school but you need my kind of mind. 60% of community college, if this kid has to take math to get into car mechanics, maybe he will get her mechanics class next slide. my grandfather was in the inventor of the autopilot for

airplanes and he was an mit trained mathematical engineer and work with another guy who was artistic who came up with a crazy new idea for autopilot. people in aviation thought it was making good and tinkered and finally got it to work and then it wasn. stolen. the stolen version was during world war ii. theyat needed a lawyer. look at work and complement three ways. processing plant, optic visualizers likee me design the layout, the whole thing and then soak the cleverg, equipment will most graduated from heisel in the skilled trades and other things you need a college degree

in the visual system from the engineer the copy engineer, the move process power and water know how to do that. next line let's look at this, visual. my co-author helped me with this, i would do the first draft associating this and then they would bring them all out. the different kinds of minds working together. in boston been asked, if you take betsy and turn her into visual thinker, no. he won't turn me into betsy. there's some learning you can do but the most valuable thing is realize that thinking is different and collaborate in

using the skills in a complementary manner. so let's look at who builds a building. an architect makes it creative, engineers will make sure it doesn't fall down and electrical systems will work right and roles are sturdy enough.ti you need to have both. inside the space station, it is functional designed by engineers where elon musk can make it look prettier. a little bit of the architect inside. next slide. the people i work with working on equipment by design in the packing plants, 20% metalworkers, people who lay out, autistic, as disliked for

adhd. metal companies, i show the slides and business leaders and impress upon them, you need these skills. computer company, airlines, thanks, pharmaceutical companies. we need these different skills so these learners, you need them like the steel mill for example. how old are your mechanics to keep theis still mill running fx the problem r is those i worked with our retiring out and flopping replaced. the autism label they are playingy games and needed somebody to fisk fix escalators. the next time you go to the airport or departmentt store, yu see somebody fixing an elevator for escalator and see how old they are because we're not getting enough young people

coming in to replace us seniors. i am 75 right now. people ask me, what you want to do? what is important to you? what's important to me right now is helping young kids think differently get into great careers where they can dori positive contributions. they discover autistic kids get diagnosed and they had good jobs. i see too many kids get a label they are too overprotective and they are not going shopping or bank accounts, they are not learning laundry, basic skills they are not learning. next slide. the thing i want to ask, what would happen to some of the top innovators in today's educational system? what would happen to einstein today?

you can argue whether or not he's autistic but he would be in an autism program and where will the end of? somebody would need to give him more advanced math. clear start with exposure first and then mentoring. i had great teachers when i was young and help me to get speech at age four, i had a great third grade teacher and science teacher who got me motivated. a wonderful mentor but ihe got into the cattle industry because i was exposed to it when i was 18 michelangelo was exposed to great art and grew up with cutting tools and we got kids growing up today have never used a tool. i had a girl in my class last

year who never measured anything steve jobs is probably on the autism. einstein and they both had creative skills, clever cookie and einstein would do math problems while playing the violin. thomas edison dropped out of school, probably autism he learned how to look and he also had mentoring other people i played with, electrical could fix anything electrical but we need those people. tessa, new line e most saying hs on the autism spectrum.ul he had his nose smashed in and probably on the autism victim this is thehe problem with the autism, you got extreme talent

on one and with severe disabilities on the otherer end who cannot dress themselves or do normal activities but the verbal thinkers call it the same thing. our foster scientific systems. that's another reason to keep them in schools. 50% morely likely compared to other scientists, another reason to keep these classes. we'll go to the next slide. let's give tips. i've shown a lot of business leaders. you need these. n't stick them in a crazy chaotic work during the holidays. don't have long strings of information, i cannot remember it. give me some bullet points on what i am supposed to do.

being vague doesn't work, you can't say you're not a team player, need to say you criticize the credit and called them stupid, that's not acceptable. i was brought up with social skills training so let's say i start my drink with my finger, you say use a spoon when you do that, just quietly give me the right one. was the ultimate goal of education? was a student ten years after high school? housing projects shown in hbo movie. next slide. when you are weird, i had to bypass conventional interview process show people my work. i learned how to sell my work rather than myself. a lot of people on the spectrum successful or self employed,

steel working shops, they raised small companies, big companies but self-employed. you have to get somebody to run the business side, often the spouse or they would hire somebody to do that but you will have to have somebody to keep things organized. somebody has to pay the bills and negotiate prices with vendors and stuff likeha that. this is the drawing are used, handing me design the front and every single one. i think they are still doing pretty well for somebody they thought was retarded and wouldn't amount to anything butt the thing is, showing their stride in hr department doesn't do any good. they have to show it to the plant manager or engineers, the people who will appreciate, you

got to show the work to the right person but that's how i got jobs slide going to show you photos i stuck in the portfolio. our 32nd round so let's say who are a programmer, show off some of your best pieces. one page of your code, neatly presented. it's really good. next slide. they duplicated my project. they built all of my projects. this shows how i think visually. let's go back. there's a whole chapter and fukushima nuclear power plant disaster would have been prevented if it had watertight boards. mathematical engineers did a great job making it. perfect, it worked. twenty minutes0 0 later the tsi

came over the seawall and flooded the basement, flooded electric emergency coolingco pu, not going to work underwater. watertight doors. something so simple i could understand because i see them. if they have them, the fukushima would not have happened. that's why you need people like me saying you need watertight doors on that. you would have us on your phone. we will end on that side and have questions. i'm pretty sure you have lots of time between questions. >> we have a few questions. perfect. someone is asking about

education and talking about, is there anything you are excited about in ourot education system? >> i am concerned we are getting so much emphasis on higher mathematics a calculus, you may scream out some of the best veterinarians because they can visualize what's wrong with the animal.ce we' got a gigantic -- is a question from linda. i'm going to answer, linda says, is everybody on the autism spectrum the visual thinker? no. that was a mistake i made when i wrote thinking in pictures 25 years ago. everybody is not a visual thinker. everybody on the spectrum tends to be an extreme type of

thinker. maybe an extreme object visualizer. you also have people on the spectrum who are extreme mathematicians and there was a thing about putting them in museums, i think it's wonderful. we need to have these. i went to harvard about my visual thinker spoke, they had a makers space in the lab. but here's the thing, and there was also a3d 3d printers, they d a sewing machine. the thing i am concerned about is mathematically oriented programs with visual thinkers. my mind could be in the district design department because that's the visual side of designing things. i'm a believer and make her spaces.

... like let's say the water on the floor, they went to clean it up because they see somebody could slip on that. that would be simple visual thinking. here is another question, how can you tell if an artistic person is a visual thinker? you can't tell with 3-year-olds but by the time they are 7 or 8, they are mathematical thinkers, then that person doesn't care about logos. a lot of the visual thinkers are good at schooling and mathematical thinkers are good at math. and they can be moved ahead into higher math, something we need to be doing. we need to develop the skills they are good at.

a lot of different things especially kids that learn differently and see what they gravitate towards. because that, janine asked about how to hold visual thinkers to connect better with animals. they need to have contact with animals. there has been a lot of autistic kids that benefited from dogs like i did a book signing years ago for my book outside denver. i was shocked to find out 25% or 30% of the family, there were no pets of any kind, not a mouse or gerbil or parakeet or something like that. also discovered when i did my children's book, i am a shameless book a promoter, this is what the grandkids need to

be getting, projects for kids. i found out 20% or so of kids in suburban denver never made a paper airplane, there's a problem here. get them exposed to a lot of different things and some people say studies show it doesn't matter what kind of a mind somebody has, you can learn using the same teaching methods. people with the mixture, extreme mathematicians, extreme visuals, that is where you tailor how you teach them. we have made big mistakes in education, that is why holland and finland and germany are making a lot of stuff we don't make like a poultry processing plant for example, chipmaking machines, important stuff.

>> another question from janet asking what percentage of the us population are object visualizers and verbal thinkers? >> nobody has done any research on that but research has been done on occupations. the object visualizers, more medical more -- mathematical minds are engineering, chemistry, things of that sort. little kids are more visual thinkers than adults. that is known and little kids language starts to overwrite the visual thinking. where that hasn't happened to me, narrate pictures that are in my mind. >> there is another question talking about teachers. how does one teach teachers to recognize what type of thinking

a child may possess? >> first thing you have to do is realize different kinds of thinking. this is the same thing i tell business people. where you get the most extreme of different kinds of thinkers is where you get special ed kids. a lot of smart kids are getting shoved into special ed. i don't want to mess up their algebra scores on state tests. every state is different, not all states do that kind of stuff. some states do. i am very concerned about skill loss because visual thinker is the person, with electric waters and stuff like that, people like me put this stuff back together and this is where it is lost and the other problem i am seeing, the kid gets a label, parents are getting so locked into that label, they can't imagine their kid can do anything. i see a situation where two parents are computer programmers that in the tech industry, they have a

supersmart man and don't think to teach their kids programs because they are locked into it. you get kids that get labeled, skills are uneven, good on one thing and terrible at something else and we need to hold up the things they are good at, visual thinkers overgeneralize. you might say we all go to alternative energy, how are we going to do this? the other thing is, windmills and solar panels have to be maintained and that often gets to the question. we had a wind mall -- a windmill fall off. hadn't been maintained. >> going back to trade, elizabeth is asking do you think election cycle shop and art are falling away in the schools because verbal thinkers dominate school administration? >> that is part of the reason.

2025 years ago there were two things that happened, some states are starting to put it back in. texas, minnesota, they took out the shop classes. i was out in the field on big construction projects. they were going full blast. the company still existed and then the company no longer existed and the next owner was not jb us and did not do this. we can farm the workout. you see in the short run that makes money, but then when all the people i work with retire which is happening now, it comes back to bite you. i've got a client right now, took one look at their shot, they cannot do the simplest hydraulic thing.

20 years ago we didn't do that. the hydraulic things need to keep the water system running. this is where you need my kind of night mind that sucks at math. i can do arithmetic. >> going off of mantra source schools, if they have the right idea of another style. >> they do a lot of hands-on things. i visited my old elementary school, a beautiful shop but they admitted they went back to the 50s to get a program shop and we have 20 kids growing up today removed from the world of the practical and they are making policy about electric power? that concerns me.

>> absolutely. >> i tell business leaders the first thing you have to realize is we have different minds, look how zoom got invented. the programming mathematicians did not invent the simple interface for zoom. that was done by a guy who worked webex. webex would listen to him so he started zoom. a simple interface is made by somebody like me and programmers have to make the thing work. steve jobs was an artist. that is why iphones are easy to use. mathematicians had to make it work. >> that makes complete sense. kathy has an interesting question. are there any colleges and universities you know of developing programs to support alternate thinkers?

>> they give me things like extra time on tests but these are things that are kind of scary. i did a book signing in california on visual thinking, they had it in a school and i talked to the head master of that school, he didn't know visual thinking existed. he knew about mathematics thinking, he kept asking me how do you think about this, he didn't know it existed. i go who puts the air conditioning on in your school? there is a connection here. >> the dissemination of knowledge, amy is asking if there's movement to make textbooks cover multiple types of learning. >> studies have shown if you take this to schoolkids, different kinds of thinking, you can use different so-called

styles of learning. it doesn't seem to matter. where it matters is where you get to extremes. i am extreme or you get somebody who is an extreme mathematician, or extreme musician. the middle-of-the-road kids can learn whole words or the math some other way. for me if it is too abstract i don't understand it. the thing is, if you look at some of our thought leaders in the past, they were artistic or dyslexic. i am also concerned it is getting too theoretical. there are some interesting things on this book tour, interesting hotels to stay at, some kids in the 1930s at local college and then a room that is

full of textbooks, 1930s, electrical engineering books, much more applied, 1930s western literature books, shakespeare, socrates, all the stuff we read today. a lot of nonsense written about the greeks, got to remember it was written in a language they actually used to. than for green room, political science professor. i never saw vague abstract stuff on politicians. it wasn't right or left, it was that i just absolutely did not understand. i am going, going to be in charge of making a decision about with her we take a coal-fired power plant that is running my house right now, yeah, we have serious things we need to think about. >> absolutely. what i would like to do, the

lowest possible level, to keep it in good order, keep the expertise, however slow i can run it and not mess it up. than a prop to the visual thinkers. i am worried about shutting it completely off. i would like to get it down to 80% shut off, but shutting it completely off, if we have an emergency, ice out the windows, stuff i visualize. it is a nice power station, my students took care of it. i know about how many railcars it has. or call, that's not abstract. i question completely shutting it down. my approach would be what is the lowest i can run it without

hurting the planet, and keep the staff there? if i turn it off, it hurts it. this is the problem. it doesn't like being turned off. something a lot of people don't understand. i don't know how low i can run it without messing it up. i need to talk to the guys in the shop. they can tell me. >> host: barbara is asking, she is a tutor in a fixed rate class in school. how can teachers, any advice for teachers or tutors to individualize learning for visual learners while also accomplishing required tasks? >> let's talk about something specific. that is too good. when i was 8 years all i could not read. i was in third grade. even today in school, kids can't read in third grade.

they were using dick and jane books, that did not work with me. mother taught me very simply, if you know your abc song you already have half the sentence. my mother had me memorize it and then something like the wizard of oz out loud. then i would slowly sound out words. she would read a page and i would read 5 words. that worked for me. there are other kids, you messed them up with phonics. this was an autistic kid who learned reading in a different way. the important thing is learning to read and some schools use a blend. algebra i never could learn. specific formulas that do specific things, that i can do. going back to 1930s electrical engineering books describing how generator works and had the

math there that you use for that particular problem. >> host: we did get a question, i think you mentioned 1/3 grade teacher who helped you. >> guest: i had a great third grade teacher, she was wonderful. >> host: what exactly did they do that helps you out? >> guest: i was in a small school. we were taught how to take turns. very kind teacher. she said we've got to get temple reading. mother taught me at home. started with a book worth reading, dick and jane got more free, the wizard of oz, she had a book about clara barton, famous nurse. how about a fifth or sixth grade level book, we worked on sounding out words and by the end of a semester of being tutored by my mother i went

from no reading to sixth grade level reading very quickly. the other thing we are not teaching students is writing skills, graduate students, writing skills now. right up the methods of the experiment and write it clearly so i can understand it. i am not the only professor complaining about writing skills. the way i learned to write, i had to correct it. i'm finding my students, some of them are smart students. never had anybody correct grammar on their papers. read your paper out loud. read your paper out loud. it sounds really terrible and needs corrected. >> host: quite a few questions, hard to get through all of them. one question, one person is talking about how they encourage their visual learners or thinkers too, to write.

is this something that -- >> guest: i can say for me, visual thinking, i narrate the scenes. if i am thinking about driving to the airport, now i am seeing landmarks along the way here. i describe it. i went and visited some interesting place, i tend to see scenes, really interesting things. words narrate the pictures. that is how i think. what spurred me to write the visual thinking book is the skill loss issue and, we had

nothing to do. i had just gone to those four places and came to the realization of a skill loss issue. i tell business leaders the first you've got to realize his people think differently, let's look at how we still can count the next. >> absolutely. for this, continuing with your nonvisual skills, skills that are useful, you mention the person who had never picked up a ruler in their life. >> that was last year, never -- to measure anything or measure anything. >> host: someone is asking do you have any thoughts on teaching visual schools like taxes and insurance? >> guest: there needs to be

some business math, household math, how to run a business. people wouldn't be running up credit card debt and everything else. there was a furniture store that makes me every time i drive to the airport angry. no payments for 3 years. you suck them into buying these couches and they are going into debt. i was taught to save money when i was 8. i got $0.50 a week for allowance. about $0.50 a week. they didn't buy comics and toy airplanes. if i wanted a 69% airplane i had to stay for two weeks and realizing how important that was. the ones that are on a fast-track need to learn business. how to set up a corporation.

i had a good friend who was a contractor who helped me with my business. and adding up the expenses, adding up the income taxes. i knew how to do that kind of arithmetic. >> host: renée is bringing up a similar subject. in addition to the limitations of lack of hands-on skills like we discussed with rulers and inability to complete tasks. what about the visual overload and distraction in today's world? >> guest: a lot of kids end upon this ability playing video games all day. they are not getting fabulous jobs in the videogame industry. i don't think that replaces real things. one kid loved american football and a chance to go to an actual game.

he found that is really cool. and bought something at a concession stand all by himself. hadn't done that before. kids like to do real things. they are not doing enough of that. there are some benefits to things you can learn from video games, but that is an hour a day, not 8 hours a day. benefits you might get on motor skills training, it is one hour a day. i am not saying good outcomes, the kids most likely to get addicted are visual thinkers likely that out to be outbuilding things. now i am spending a lot of time doing talks, i need to get out and do real things.

a great time, good to get out and see things. on the other hand the point were 85%, 90%, different hotel every night, gets too stressful. >> absolutely. going back, can you talk about annual consciousness? >> guest: visual thinking, i can't believe -- can't imagine anybody who has a dog would think it is not conscious. some of it gets down to visual thinking. if you are a highly verbal thinker, everything you think about is in words you might have a hard time understanding how the dog could think without words. somebody who thinks in pictures, easy to imagine how a dog could think without words. they don't have verbal

language, but animals can plan for the future, think about a squirrel burying and nuts for the winter or the dog, car route goes to the veterinarian, and he is acting. the animals can solve problems under -- figure out how to make a tool in rural glass. figure out a way to get it out. they can do that. animals are conscious. i don't think clams are conscious but you have to have a certain amount of -- memories, emotions can merge together sort of like a big rotunda or airport hub, hub airport. all networks form nodes whether

it is -- i can remember before the ad, or the nervous system, certain amount of association areas. i don't think clams have that. octopuses. >> continuing with animals, elizabeth is asking regarding your consulting on animal welfare do you observe animals and imagine how they view the world or is it another process? >> trying to imagine how a dog with pictures does 3-dimensional smell pictures. i did a lot of thinking about where do cattle fit in? as climate records? grazing animals are certain part of a sustainable agricultural future and yes,

they put out methane, so do leaking oil fields or the tundra, the swamps. got to use them right, but you use them right, raising animals, you could improve it and the other thing when people complain the cattle and sheep take up so much land, 20% of the earth's surface cannot be cropped. it can only be grazed. not enough water. >> absolutely. >> people don't think about that. >> a comment from carolyn. you mentioned bison. they want to thank you for the work you did at yellowstone national park to make bison capture better for the animals.

>> you feed them in corrals and one day you shut the gates. that is a lot easier than chasing them. something that i see that solution, something that i see, it is not abstract. this is where we need my kind of mind to visualize where we used to fix things. to talk about something abstract, what they were talking about, nobody sat down and said what piece of equipment froze at each point? you have to know that before you can make a rational decision on what is easiest to fix. nobody discussed that. that is so abstract, you are not solving a problem.

all that equipment will be easy to winterize and some will be impossible to winterize. but you have to know what works first and the people that are making decisions have to know what exact thing froze and how difficult would it be to winterize. that never gets discussed. i get scared and look at the books in political science professors's office. somebody with all that verbal abstractness will make a real decision. is that the right decision? we have got to reduce coal. it would be nice if our powerplant had less coal built into it. at this point i question shutting it completely down.

we could have a website to reduce electricity, two train cars left. i see that. >> host: going to communication and communicating, someone was asking how can people of different thinking types be held to communicate and interact better with others? >> guest: you have to know different thinking types exist with different approaches to problem solving. verbal thinking and enabled us to have books and libraries and made it possible to fly to the moon. dogs aren't going to do that anytime soon. it enables us to knowledge. animals can't do that. >> host: someone else is asking, for those of us who are

more visual, how well do you have to know the problem before you can visualize likely solutions? >> guest: a visual thinker is a bottom up thinking. the more things i learned about, at age 50 i thought i could think better at age 20, i have more visual things, more visual pictures in my database. sort of like training and artificial intelligence system. you train and artificial intelligence system to diagnose melanoma cancer, you've got to show it, all kinds of melanomas, the better the data set is, let's go back to powerplant thing, i don't know what a call car is. a visual thinker, the more stuff they read about and convert to graphics files and stuff they see, they can

associate it together. you have to have data in the database to associate it, a piece of equipment worked like something else, for example. that is why kids need to get out and see all kinds of stuff and they can think up all kinds of different ways to do things so they have different information in the database. it takes a lot of data to make a bottom up thinking good work. >> absolutely. moving on to employment, someone is asking, you talked with many ceos and their teams. what actions do you see them take afterward? >> guest: bringing people and having contests, programming,

workshops and things like this where people show up to work. similar things might have spaces where people try to show off stuff but you have to change the interview process. your best mechanic, for example is not going to interview well. maybe he needs to show the other mechanics what he built. that he is showing the work. some companies are really really flexible about changing the interview process. they won't do that. thing i tried to impress upon them, same with my work with panel handling, one reason for better cattle handling is it makes money, and it cuts your workmen's comp. .

that is how i polled stuff, that the cattle could make money. we need some of these skills. i didn't realize how bad the skill loss was. that was a big lightbulb moment. then i started researching stuff, electronic chipmaking machine, this goes back to the educational system. high end skills, one of the few places you don't need a college education and you could end up in a corporate job. this is something educators don't realize. we need these different thinkers, especially now we have all kinds of problems.

we've got to do stuff that is actually going to work. in the first step, realizing different thinkers exist. one is predominant. you dedicated the label, there is something extreme. >> host: we've had some comments how some individuals were close to being fully visual thinkers. the accommodation mixed. >> guest: they are mixedes and research shows thinking styles don't matter.

and somebody like me, for things to relate that to. in the graphics file to remember something. on the other hand, what it happened to einstein today? today's educational system? that is a real worry. there's a lot of difference between them. we need to expose elementary school skids to these things. to wait until community college is almost too late and then they can't find anybody to teach welding. that is right now. that is in september. we were discussing them.

and took where the requirement of college education, can't find someone to teach. >> host: it make sense to hear you talk about careers -- >> guest: theater and music. musical intimates that didn't work for me, never could play this little flute. another kid takes off with it but you don't know unless they are exposed. exposing kids to a lot of different things and see what they gravitate towards because the thing as an artistic person, what helped me is having an interesting career and having shared interests.

and sat next to construction manager, with the quick farming system. that is a good plane ride. that is shared interest. or talk to somebody about their cattle. that is shared interest. >> guest: i love that. someone talking about standardized tests. given standardized tests, toward verbal thinkers. >> guest: the other thing is math requirements. i originally wanted to go into engineering. >> we will leave this program at this point. you can finish watching it on our website, c-span.org. live to the white house, where president biden is marking the second anniversary of the attacks on the us capital. you are watching live coverage