likely for publicity reasons this was exaggerated and say that actual klan members stood near 4 million and 4 million klansmen standing in 1935 and count forward 100 years to grandchildren and great grandchildren in the year 2025, and add up to about 135 million livering white americans. 50% of the white population of the united states. seeing another one that was one of two whites have a family link to the ku klux. every other white person if he or she knew the names of ancestors in which to research their lives could produce a klan family memorabilia war.

.... to practice law today. he several celebrex cases such as rauner versus gail reached the supreme court. he represented rosa parks, john lewis along his success

is much more on your? >> thank you very much. >>. we're i have used in? >> i'm doing fine and i want to condition those of you who are responsible and their cultures or having this program. i sent and listen saw some of the incidents from slavery down for the part of your program your day you for the invitation . >> thank you, well we are honored. we talked a few days and i've had the honor's regional biography saw some of your interviews so i have my own

questions but we will get audience questions away. our lungs iscertainly a close eye. the stock . open up one of your chapters with words segregation was the owner of. when i was at practice law in all of september 1954 were segregated from the cradle to grave, on the plane to train, from the courtroom classroom. that really is the first step in our conversation can you help the audience understand about your background, what was it like to grow in montgomery your experience that startedit all off ? >> you have to understand december 14 19 saw was

inaugurated there, but as a youngster growing up, my father died when i was two and i was the youngest am the youngest of five children. we had or i had very little contact with white people when i was growing up say from the first through the eighth grade. we lived in a black community. we went to a black church. our neighbors were black. the only contact we had with white people is our parents would work for them and that's the way it was. we had to separate.

not only did we have those and grow up underthose conditions , but the streets were usually unpaved and there was very little water. at least you would have to go to acentral place where you could get water . so african americans lived a very subservient life to that of white americans. that is the montgomery that i knew and i had very little contact with any white persons for many years. >>. >> host: at what point in your life, we had a program for a week ago about the tulsa race massacre . there was the summer in armenia before we showed some of the lynching.

there was race violence in alabama . what was your personal experience that sort of drew you into becoming a civil rights lawyer as we beautifully say. your goal in life was and is to continue to destroy segregation. >> when i grow up in my community there was really no discussion about lynching. there was no discussion really about segregation, about white people. we knew that we were black and that we weren't white people and we went to white schools. my mother was very religious and my father was very religious so i had a religious background. i guess my first experience really with white people,

i've thought probably i met the mother mightily lady my mother worked for who did domestic work and to show you the relationshipthey had , when i was born i was born freddie lee gray but my mother was working for miss betty and miss betty told her when she came back to work after i was born, she thought my middle name should be david. you know what my mother did? my mother officially changed my name to leave david. so i grew up under an all-black environment and i was envery religious and one of our preachers was from tennessee and they said when i was young because i was baptized when i was eight and

i understand we baptized cats and dogs at my preacher said there are two things a black boy in alabama could look forward to professionally and that was you could be a preacher or a teacher . so since i was religiously inclined, this creature new church of christ, went to school in nashville tennessee and wanted to be preachers and he told my mother even though she didn't have any money that she would try to send me to that school so i could learn how to preach. and he did. so while i grew up in the ghetto of montgomery until i was eight years old and attended the loveless school, when i was in eighth grade

creature took me to the national e,institute, a black school they are tolearn how to be a preacher . and apparently i still have come in contact with white people accepted that school while it was a black school with all-black students, we had two teachers who were white. one named lambert campbell. she taught a public speaker, trying to learn how to be a preacher and jw brandt who taught us the bible. that was my first real direct contact with them. when we got preacher who was the president of our school decided his responsibility was to grow and recruit students and raise money that

went to these black to go to the churches and he would tell them you send us your boy we will send you a man. i got to the pretty good preacher because he took me around so i went throughout the southeast and when i finished high school, i knew a little something about preaching. i came backhome , lived on edthe west side of montgomery and i was going to attend alabama state college were negroes. that's what it was then. it is now alabama state university on the east side of town. i have to then ride the public transportation system, the montgomery city line. i would have to walk about three or four blocks wherever

the bus stop was and then we would go on the bus from the west side of town through downtown to the east side of town where i became in touch with riding the buses and i found a lot of our people so i didn't have any problems myself, there were many people who were mistreated on the buses but tennessee was always reservedfor white people . and if what skin enough of those first tennesseans, then they would have the rest of them, the black people would be as the bus driver would ask the aones on the first ceased to would have to get. they sometimes, they would take your money in the front, you have to go back and get in the back so we walked through what people.

, then there were real problems with people were being treated a man altercation loss. he was killed d. i decided that in addition to preaching, they told me lawyers help people to solve problems. i people in my this time. i made a personal commitment while i was a student at alabama state college between december 1947 and that i was going to alabama state. and i was going to become a lawyer because they told me lawyers help to solve problems. and i wasn't going to apply to the university of alabama because i knew everything was segregated and that they wouldn't acceptme .

but i would finish, get enrolled in law school, take advantage of a program that the southern states had where they would pay a portion of the tuition room and board for blacks if they wouldn't go to the university of alabama or all auburn university for graduating schools and professional schools which those courses they could not get at the historical black pool, alabama a and m. then the other part of that was i was going to take advantage of some money they would give us in order to go out of state to take those courses to keep us from going to the white schools. and but i was going to become a lawyer and this is the part i didn't tell anybody i told people i was going to be a lawyer but i didn't tell them what time but the secret that i was once finished wall school,, bar exam, become a

lawyer discipline. i find that was? i see youngster, and upper teenager cradle of the confederacy and my introduction to becoming a lawyer i have now been one for over 65 years. >>. >> host: it's an extraordinary story and just the beginning of one of the things i wanted to getinto today . so you're in that law school because i think some of your fellow alumni are on this but you want to get a shock to your law school where you attended? >> i attended what was then western reserve university in cleveland. it is now case western reserve university. that school merged with kay's institute of technology

next-door merger for them that's where i lost. it was my real first experience of living in an integratedsociety . i lived on campus, in one of the homes that they had and i had a house mother there. they there were blacks and whites listed there. however, just so happened that the two black students who lived in the room were assigned in the same room. he was from monrovia liberia. but i also had reserved, i had a good experience and had no problems at all what i had to convince myself because this is the first time i was

in a white environment that i would be able to really compete with white students. >> host: well it worked out very well for you and for all of us. let's fast-forward to you pass the bar which i know beginning your biography, there were a few pearls along the way to getting as we approach, you didn't have a big law firm lodging to alabama. you started on your own. with some help of a few others but let's get up to the boycott and some of the real traction here which i think a lot of folks intended to hear about. the montgomery bus boycott before that, nine months before that client: give up her seat and i know there's been over the last probably

five or 10 years a bit more press you were the only, whining that? >> because that was a lot of things prior to my rolling in university law school and my graduation in preparing myself so that i can pass the alabama is. i was able to get that done after getting it done, i had met ed nixon was a black gentleman who was a friend of our government and who had been president of the naacp in montgomery . he had encouraged me to go to lost because he was always trying to like people who had problems with wax trying to improve conditions. so when i got back, he helped

me to get lawyers so i could be able to take the bar exam. and of course first i took the bar exam and i took the bar exam first in june and then the alabama bar injuly just in case . and when in august i was told that i had passed both. of course, i have no intention of practicing law in ohio so i'm back in alabama, i passed the bar exam. lawyers couldn't advertise what theycan now . so when i got back, to the people that i all worked with me, i had a open house so people would know i was sether . it wasn't long, i had met mrs. rosa parks was very

montgomery branch of the naacp was also used her after i had known from this time i was in state. so those persons we end up opening up the office and mrs. parks assisted in. i found out she was working in awareness or allotted a half from where this was located so we thought every, she will usually look little lunch in my office in the middle of the day. we would have, didn't have declines time. we talk about problems, buses are probably was asked to policies. what they should do you want to. then it was only six months

after i started practicing that claudette coleman, a 15-year-old girl who live in these montgomery was arrested for refusing to get up and you are seeking a person. so when she did that, her parents didn't know anything about me. so i for six months. but that preacher about ed nixon they had heard about ed nixon so mister nixon recommended client's parents that they get this young black lawyer to represent her when she was arrested. and he. at that time i thought this was the opportunity. but i now have to raise all these teachers in this case

before efjudge hill who was the judge of the court, the juvenile court of montgomery county i raise these issues and they had charged her with being a delinquent and assaulting an officer because when she was arrested she didn't voluntarily just walk off. she didn't resist and she didn't fight back. but the judge disagreed but in the final analysis on thursday guilty found her to be a and placed her on unsupervised probation. i was ready then because i do the we were going to change the law courts. but i'm not sure the

montgomery humidity, the black was given ready but there were some people as a ltresult of that case, joanne robinson who is a i had known her since the e time i was in court said that she got with the bus company officials this is a officials claudette colvin case and that while african-americans were 75 percent of patients they were being mistreated, is used this will, agency that didn't happen again and it. but i will be in every, black people, joanne robinson, mrs. ross and client: wanted

something done this. mrs. robinson is meeting she had had a personal experience that in 1940b&. you keep people wanted it there would be a anletter to another opportunity that k became with mrs. parks. on december 1, 1955. class that's a great set. i said you were meeting with herafter lunch . so while the perceptions that she was this quiet, tenet seamstress decided one day she was higher than what you get. his great myth more you said she was involved with the naacp is what you were talking about what to do, what not to do.

so that day when she sat down, you were waiting forthe call . tell us a little bit about that. >> on december 1, was the typical december day in alabama. and i told mrs. parks when we finished that i had to go out of town so i kind of wanted her to know that i would not be there and while she never told me that if she received the opportunity that she was not going to get up. but i believe all the time that ieif a better opportunity presented itself she wasn't going to push for change she would be an ideal person. she would do everything that you would want a client to do and she would not get up to see him once she was arrested

arrested then go ahead but i want her to know that i was 4 pm. when i got back, from mine after office i have to call my century alone calls. first of all, it was mrs. fox was fall because energy been arrested and she told me she asked if i would call her to her house so she could tell me what had in place. she wanted to head for the room monday that friday. i went over, and she told me what had taken place. her case cewas set to have to try on monday at 130.

this is now thursday evening. monday is not too far away. i told her worry about your case because i take care of it. i'll get back in touch with you and get you prepared for what you need to be there for on monday. however i mentioned rosa parks. i said ms. sparks and sometime in the community this problem is so great unity needs to involve. joanne robinson professor at llc has been with the person and she's now chairman of the women's castle where she was an organization of black a all conditions forever and she had been talking about doing something. she had a problem, i want to

talk to is as see where she thinks because i think we're going to do anything we need to do it all now. first i want to go and talk to mister nixon because he got jail, and i'm going to be representing you. you have retained us to mister ed mentions s. my conversation with ms. sparks told her that we to, i talked to joanne robinson. you see me at this time with unity and paul so with mrs. parks his will on involve and went over to mrs. joanne robinson.

this was on december 1 pervert is. and joanne i sat in the living room the plans for what we later called protests and what people call the bus boycott. what we put her early was one, the involve is to, we tried to get the community to ask process so that montgomery community will know that we are serious how to stay on the buses before they possess, the church and decide where we go from m here. and that was the second protest. i said that's fine.i say you, please stay all the

buses that we want them to do , we're going to be prepared to get help and do whatever they need to do in his room. so are going to have to plan on the ground, those plans altogether between now and monday before we're talking about doing this. as a result we can do several things, one that you have to a leader. like to serve as a spokesman. not only ed nixon within. it was also another man wrote this who is interested in polarization and electing people to do in office while they were there for those persons are going to need to follow. so we and has is one, i spoke

about be. it' the martin luther king, and how long, golden civil rights will you do, and move people at words. i said that's fine. to these other two leaders, we need to be in key roles. ed nixon was chair, eating was, he knew a colorado black letter labor leader in the new yorker was in the sector you need my 25 all work that you see on a was in the contractor. rufus lewis, houses, well-respected, was the nightclub call is a registered voter.

his life was the co-owner of a funeral home in town. they had automobiles, they will use. is basically a human services transportation for a, then his life along with these other funeral in the state will be able to get these people transported in their automobiles. then the only other thing we is well, you need a lawyer. as a result of what we did there, that was the conclusion. martin luther king, we went around and got to be the chair, the president. ed nixon the treasurer, rufus owings was chairman of the transportation committee. young lawyers out of law school was called down.

we sold those and joanne said let's get through with our meeting. we assigned responsibilities to each ofus . she said i'm going to get some leases out now say another black woman arrested on buses h, a trial is this monday protest, stick all the buses they had a meeting on monday evening. when the meetings were made as a result of the siege that seats that we still need a lot of us it couldn't be known that we were doing this plan. because if he had been known what she was doing as a teacher of the state of public schools she would have been fine. it was muchlater . i guess far before i got barred even. but the seed was sown.

the information was given out. the buses started on monday morning, very few lacks of the buses. we had mrs. parks trial. we knew if i do to begin with thatthey were going to convict her . i raised the various constitutional issues. got the information i needed from the witnesses for the city during the trial. and i knew that jury was going to find her guilty which they did. and we found her $10 in costs . we arranged for the appeal. and then proceeded to make the pledge for the mass meeting at the baptist church that night. which introduced by doctor king to the nation and to the world and all in the meantime there had been meetings held under between it were those

persons we had recommended each one of them will were elected to a particular person and it was announced what was going on, the rest of it was history and we knew that what we do was found something great. we didn't know where it was going but we knew it was something that needed to be done. >> host: what incredible insight. thank you. i'm just realizing i am in a trance listening to you and many more questions ideal audience has questions about i will ask the lord and encourage our audience to your questions in the. we've got folks from new jersey, new york and the greater washington dc area, authority, self end, axon

mississippi, florida, junior, i. denver colorado, wilmington delaware, nasa chooses, it's a national audience is excited to hear you speak. changing gears because i have a feeling we will get a few questions about martinluther king . you have a great story about a boy from troy. could you talk about your introduction to him and your impression of him as a young man? >> john lewis was from troy alabama, lived in a rural area 50 miles south of montgomery. about 50 to 60 miles south of tuskegee. and he had heard about doctor king and read about him. he wanted to go to detroit state which was a white

college in his hometown. and they wouldn't accept him and some of the kids down there tried to use the library and could have used the public library so he had been an advocate of doctor king and said he wanted to talk with him about going to troy state. doctor king simpson of austin from troy alabama down to montgomery. and called me and told me what was going to arrive a bus asian. and bring him to a meeting where he was and i've been at church possibility of a gift in troy state. we. because of the situation and we found out we knew he was a minor and they were going to

do what you will also have to file sso you would have to go back.and then we would actually assumes his parents wanted to do so. he was back to shore and his parents felt that person that they would have to file a lawsuit but you have to live those people. he was going to the seminary and he became involved in the civil rights movement. it was unfortunate we lost them. >> i have a question that

relates. >>. >> violence around you going to martin luther king's you write in your book that you were meeting atchurch . he poked his head out a window to see the crowds. he caught a brick to the side of the head. you have remained for yo decades, called cool and re collected in the face of all this . how do you persist in such a calm state. >> doctor king had set the example to begin with.

he said publicly and privately our movement must be anonviolent movement . we don't have as many guns and we can't win. i think all of us realized that nonviolence was what we have to teach people and hope they would abide by and for the most part during the early age of the movement that the violence took place on our part. i got not on my head as an example of that was a small part of it. many people e lost their lives

because of it but the set so that we could accomplish some of the things that we have accomplished since the time when everything was completely segregated when i started practicing law in 1954. >> host: you were obviously making a name for yourself not a hazard a guess there are many white lawyers that did not care for the. so there was i know for to this bar you probably more once. you tell us about maybe one of those experiences professionally ? >> guest: i missed that. >> host: the effort to discard you. could you talk about that experience? to disbar you pass on lawyer because of your.

>> guest: i've mentioned you about client five. first case i have you as parks case. but because of deep-seated and with a lot of help along the way we file lawsuits going public transportation, foreign subsidies, all three law, we now been able to get a clear unconstitutionality. we on a nonviolent basis using the law in order to published thosethings .

while most of us at some personal problems that we encounter, it didn't stop us from doing it because the struggle of people justice continues tobe happy i . >> just for our who might not be the mother with your old personal story, irony here is that in 2002 you were to lack president of the alabama state bar association. when you were for that was@you? the downhole? >> guest: is the state bar because your elected by the law and lawyers all across the state a vote on my cell rights record doing that lawyers and is the bar

association will keeping and professionally there was a white female lawyer in birmingham who had gotten us to have some cases for her in our part of the state. she thought our firm had done a good job i had a good job andshe referred me to the president of the state bar . i said you're crazy. why should i put my head in a noose and volunteered to do that ? she said we were having the bar association in birmingham that year when you, i'm going to introduce you to some people.

she asked me to people talk about the possibility of running. i told her that one, i wasn't going to just get there, but to what they said and the only way i'll do it is i'll have to run uncontested because one of these white lawyers decides to run against me and talk about my civil rights background, they're going to win and i'm going to loseand i don't need that . i did with a recommended. i was elected to be the first african american president of the alabama state bar. when you get a letter from the alabama state bar association now will say lawyers under service, that's the motto for it but that was the motto i use when i was president elect in order to get lawyers to realize we

rendered service from the bar association. we were able to get more diversity on our commissioners and we were also while i was president we started that alabama lawyers hall of fame, one of three major things i was the president of the state bar association next week, president of the state bar will come here i understand alabama state bar will give me some sort of resolution or i'm going to be this year the annual convention on 15 july at the bench and bar meeting so it's been a good thing i've enjoyed it and i'll try to be a good lawyer. >> was an evolution from the very beginning when you were taking the bar exam to start

off . we have a few more minutes and i have a couple of questions from theaudience . have you ever worked with reverend james lawson? >> who? >> reverend james lawson. >> lawson? where is he from? >> they did not say. >> the name sounds familiar. it's not one that i had very much work with but i may have. >> okay, what about reverend james incident of south carolina? he worked with, build the case with thurgood marshall that went to the supreme court. did you ever worked with reverend james hinson ? >> i didn't work with him but thurgood marshall i did work with a. as a matter of fact when i was retained to represent the

montgomery improvement association on the phone and talked to mister marshall and asked him to let me come up there and talk to him and his staff for them to help me with work and we file, crowder versus gale was one of the cases he erected for me in that case and of course we know he went on to become a justice on the supreme court. >> host: we do have a question and i know you were interested in talking about the ski syphilis study your work on that which was groundbreaking. analysis are? >> i have been involved in a lot of suits against the state of alabama for the study in many instances the judge and designated the

justice department to be a part to it. then i found out 1972 that the government itself had been engaged in deadly deception with over 623 african americans which trustee is county seat in connection with the study of untreated syphilis in the negro males didn't tell them about. i had to then i'll lawsuit against them and of course you can always file a lawsuit against the government they say the way you can do it and under the terms and conditions of it and we were able to get that suit as much as it could wait on there were people who thought the apology should take place.

our group had tried to do it is only having a press conference as a result of that press conference people like, president clinton and granting the apology to them on 17 may of 1997. on that or just a little while afterwards and said we want you to do one thing. you're going to permit a memorial so people will know that we have made a contribution to this country. i told him we could do that. some 20 years ago we started to ski so small that. one of the purposes is to have a memorial for those men and if you come to that center you will see chandelier, they will give us

the link and we made it into a tit is really on the orioles for those people, for those men . in addition to that that center also makes it possible so that you can see visions of native americans, european americans african americans, all under one roof and you will see the entire laws and regulations of the progress americans have made from slavery to today many of those cases were filed here. we invite you to see that museum in trustee. >> absolutely and i did not know about the museum before we started on his is on my list asked why look forward to coming and visiting. we have components left. one, which brings us to today. i know the bus boycott it all

off you still practice law in six months ago you were in the headlines again about a street sign in your hometown. could you tell our viewers what is going on in your hometown. >> your talking about the mayor history after me? mayor reed who is the first to serve as mayor of the city of montgomery i montgomery came to see because i get what he was you some almost 60 years later. but he came up here soon after he was mayor and asked me what i thought the city of montgomery could do is contribute to the work done. and i live on the street call western davis avenue. when i sgrew up, and i suspect

before i went to national law school, i didn't know who jefferson davis was. but all i knew is the street i grew up on, and therefore 1936 until 1956 mary. so, in a where i have to go i saw street, it was named after the, mediating increased some older boys and girls in the ghettos of. and so he got to work. so when you on the fact that it was president of the confederacy was the name of. it was just a street that i thought tso they're working on it and where they do i certainly appreciate. >> is pretty minimal story in your career. one last question for you, we

seen a change in your lifetime, the influence of that change in last year. all social justice issues. violence and could you tell us, do you have parting words of advice for young people today. >> i think young people need to realize your people to be that were young people who are instrumental in the beginning of the bus boycott, claudette coleman. martin luther king which was his late 20s. the was 50 years older. i was a few years younger. and mrs. parks was in her 30s . so you have known people and then there were the young

people at&t north carolina started the demonstration for students. they also were students who started the freedom ride that resulted in the desegregation of all transportation systems too. so don't people have played a very important role including john lewis and montgomery march and i filed a lawsuit also when they were beaten back, i found it before the close of day on monday . these young people did it in a nonviolent manner. there were people who did violence but the violence was only against persons not authorities so whatever they decide to do as they do this work look back to see the young people, old people, the wet, black people, everybody l.

those persons who were involved in a day and a nonviolent matter. whatever we do, violence is not the answer. it wasn't the answer, jesus taught us to love one another . we do that, and continue to use fthe methods that we use is, whatever new methods and with all of the technology that you have now, you can use that but you is doing is in a nonviolent matter because we still have problems which need to be solved . >> you so much, this is an amazing conversation under the able to have your first person is your personal story really is our collective story. you're part of our nation's history i treasure asked me chance to talk today.

>> one final thing to find a that is i will do it very quickly us all equal justice continues. there are two basic problems we still face in this nation. racism and inequality. and just start college it started when we were brought here as slaves. so then i say to young people, to old people, to all those who are interested, and i say with john lewis, a great warrior sent to me, if we're going to solo problem were going to have to get rid of racism and the quality. how are we going to do it? we've got to have a plan. we've got to first all the flair that is wrong racism and inequality is wrong .

and once you do wrong if you plan to get rid . because joanne robinson i plan there would not have been montgomery bus boycott in the five it may have been later but it wouldn't have been then is knowingly have been transformed. after you plan you got the plan once is going to have to get involved. you can't expect somebody else to do it. what i want to tell you that i close up john lewis, he and talking with me holidays for his. he knew was coming. i said to him as close said what it is you would like for me to do and for others to do to continue to do your work. and he told me he said

brother, keith pushing. keep going. set the record straight. so i sent to those of you who are on this program here today, racism and a quality, those are our problems thatwe work on . keep pushing, keep going. set the record straight. do it in a nonviolent matter and continue to do this until justice rolls down that water righteousness like a mighty stream s. and you very much see us the multicultural center and help support thatmuseum . >> thank you very much mister gray you've been an inspiration and i appreciate your time and are starting also your time today has been terrific.

>> entreaties presidency. a white hoe storical association is the notion of a house interior design. abortion. >> this is a sweet is for me, i told you i was going to mention james monroe. james monroe returns to the lighthouse at the first president after the fire 1817 and in this extraordinary three-piece week of furniture from the french cabinetmaker is there in lighthouse, was originally a red color, not a blue-collar overtime becomes warm and out of fashion design of the presidency and went down to one piece of 53. which is tragic. there was a time for the candy presidency there was a collection of the house for

long process, the ex-president could come along and go away, there is sustainable selection . that change their candy soldier is displaced this beautiful three-piece suite of furniture comes in. five you can is all done except for one piece. mrs. k issued to claim as many pieces as she. we worked with her on that and other first ladies since. to this day i believe there are 10 original piecesand the white house action . pieces including that appeared table of fire screen using their. the humanity was required, you look at class, like a piece of chalk and track somewhere. just a discretionary store is the next melissa's leadership the entire team at a particular furniture back to its original state. >> ..