homework can be hard but squatting in a diner for internetwork is even harder that's why we are providing lower income students access to affordable internet so homework can just be homework. connect to compete.

>> focused on china and the threats china poses economically. this morning he serves as editor is thefo foreign affairs and alo the author of the 2018 book the chinana mission. good morning to you. >> good morning thanks for

having me. >> there was a hearing last week on the national security threats the u.s. is facing around the world. where does china's ambition rank in your mind in terms of the biggest threats facing the united states? >> what you've heard from administration official after official, and i think this goes back to the administration followings this one is even whie we face the threat china is the long-term and most challenging issue that u.s. foreign policy changes and military terms into the pentagon they call it this is the thing that is going to be driving us forward and defining our concern when it comes to foreign policy and national security looking at the economic challenge, the geopolitical and militaryry one.

they see us as the piece of threat inng their mind? >> this has been true for decades at this point if you go back 50 years there was a moment when the united states and china both saw the soviet union as a bigger threat that allowed the new stage and foreign policy in the u.s. china relationship what you've seen in the last couple of decades the united states is to be the main challenge this is true of the u.s. presence in asia and in the past decade or so you've seen a grazing focus on this from american policymakers. it goes back for about a decade

of the obama administration talked about donald trump of course in much starker and memorable terms and his focus on the campaign and the white house and the biden administration has continued to that with china becoming the central issue in american foreign policy that for some time they put this in slightly softer terms but useful this from the chinese president into general secretary just in the last few days when we u.s.ed to talk about efforts so in escalation of an f rhetoric on both sides whichch s sending the relationship into a new phase that is still unsettled and scary for lots of reasons. >> getting that unprecedented third term can you explain how and why he came to power as president and where he came up?

>> this is an important part of the story and there's a lot of focus on the extent to which it really changed the system for the leaders immediately before him. there was a norman the politics that stayed in power for two terms for the role of president and general secretary for the chinese communist party. there's au commitment to the succession of the leaders for the collective approach to leadership seen as the response to the overwhelming role and the dominant role after 1949 that's not a great for others in its own domestic policy but after some movement in previous governments to the collective approach and the approach last focused on this one really

dominant figure he set it up from the time he came into power a decade ago at this point to really reverse that and give himself just overwhelming controlimwh of all parts of the state so a lot of this is kind of bureaucratic changes that are a little bit hard to follow from the outside from people that are not steeped in this stuff but in all kinds of ways he gave himself more control over the chinese military and economic politicalver the system and what's happened over the last few months first with the party congress last fall and then the national people's congress he gave a third term as general secretary of the party and this is kind of a symbolic step but shows the extent to which he has his own personal stamp on the chinese personal system and what we see seems to be emanating from this one

figure and of course the record of what's happened with vladimir putin and the war in ukraine is a demonstration of how dangerous this is with one person with unchecked power you don't know what kind of information that puts us into scary territory because it makes it harder to predict what's going to happen and there are fewer kind of checks so this really is about this dominant figure and i think it took americans a little while to focus on him. there was a view that he might be kind of a continuation of previous leadership styles. i don't think anyone expected when he started a decade ago he would go for this unprecedented third term but now that he's starting on this we are grappling with a new set of challenges and relationships.

>> the topic of this hours washington journal, our guest use of foreign affairs and the editor variables with the author of the books china mission. if you want to join the conversation you can do so on theco phone line as usual, republicans 202-748-8001, democrats 202-748-8000. independent we talk about the reuters reporting in the next 24 hours now expecting to meet with vladimir putin as early as next week. what are youch watching for? >> china has been performing the system somewhat as a delicate dance since the beginning of the .war you saw before the war happened with the meetingap talking about the no limit partnership in this rhetoric but at times china has seemed uncomfortable with what's going on and doesn't want to come out

and oppose vladimir putin because he sees the challenge is very much the chinese interest but at the same time has been cautious at moments about how it's level of support go through rhetorical for the russian war in ukraine. but it's important for the chinese economic growth and going too far when it comes to the support of vladimir putin. reports of the chinese interest and the actual war effort with its ammunition or something else. it's been quite focused on trying to deter this action by china and publicizing what it knows of those intentions you've

seen a lot of the diplomacy between the u.s. and china over the last year focused on trying to make clear china understands the consequences of decreasing that support might be but you also see reports like this that you mentioned that suggest he's constantly testing these boundaries and seeing what hee could get away with and what he might be able to do to sustain. at the same time in that relationship with russia but at this point he is very much an

interest. >> on the peace plan that's coming at a time when this story is how china brokered irrigon and the deal raises red flags for the united states and a peace u deal in china involved n that. what should we read from that effort? >> i think it is easy to overreact the significance of the involvement in that normalization of relations between iran and saudi arabia. sort of those that haven't been tracking this closely where they broke off relations years ago in response to growing tensions about yemen and a really fundamental disagreement about the state of the middle east between iran and saudi arabia. they've been talking for the last couple of years and finally it took some help to get them over the line of the normalized relations. in some ways this is the reflection of the u.s. from the middle east but it's been a

fairly deliberate process by the last two or three administrations in the united states. we focus too much on the middle east and the iraq war especially and we are about to hit the anniversaryhi so we've seen this pushed back to devote less attention. when you do that you will inevitably be making space for others to step in and you can probably see the effort here is not entirely opposed to the interest. we havee a degree of stability and that inth the region in iran and it probably helps in that regard. in the middle east and the foreign policy but also this growing admission by china took place to prevent the role. last year announcing he called the global security initiative which was his effort to talk

about china playing a whole effort that had been more focused on its own region and talked about the noninterference and staying out of other problems but as power grows and capabilities grow your inevitably going to see china doing more of this. there will be times when it's not going to be entirely in the u.s. interest. we will be happy to see some of those developments but it's not an entirely bad thing but at the other times it will cut against you as the preferences and i think that we will start to see that in theta middle east with a bigger military presence. in other ways it would be able

toto support. for this conversation for this hourk so we have the time to tk about it, editor of foreign affairs and author of the book the china mission again if you want to join the conversation, 202-748-8001 republicans, 202-748-8000 for democrats, 202-748-8002 for independent. this is michael out of plainfield illinois. good morning. i understand the preamble. it's no surprise china is a competitor. we've been shipping jobs to them r long time. if they are going to be using this stuff against me.

here's what i want the guests to address just like with this act i believe it was called where these manufacturersad make money by shipping the jobs over to china and in my opinion trees honestly built up china and now they want usy to be taxed moren social security to bring back the very manufacturing that we use to do here anyway. so i want your opinion as to may maybe what we really need to do is step back for a moment, unfounded these guilty people that actually caused this and immobilize them because right now the american business community still wants to do business with china and make money. >> i go to your point.

on the shipping jobs to china. i think michael raises an important dimension to this and if you regards since then the manufacturing base has been eroded even as china has raced ahead. it's worth looking at where the views were within the 1990s. across multiple administrations. the first part of the obama administration and the sense that the world was moving in an american direction and that trade and engagement all of that was going to be to china and in the case of russia as well with

the right kind of engagement. you start to see a china that would be evolving into a more global actor and economic system where there's this basic assumption and engagement that would ultimately lead to a world that is friendlier to the american interest that reflect the kind of economic and political system. people started to reevaluate that. giving u a lot of assumptions about that going in one

direction there was a reevaluation of policies across a huge number of areas and i still think we are reckoning with that. the manufacturing piece is an important one because it p pertains to jobs in the united states and i think that certainly in this administration and the previous one investing in jobs here when it comes to china policy that focused on giving subsidies to manufacturers that are building things but there's been simultaneously this focus on investing in innovation whether it's basic science and manufacturing capacities and also to cut off chinese access to the most advanced totechnologies. so along with jobs which my whole goal is talking about the

comment you also see this on the technological front in the sense that there's a lot of technologf that was created in the united states or in american allies that has been aching its way to china some of that is because of propertytheft on the part of che companies and the chinese government but some of it is about the usual state of the global economy which has shifted a lot of capacity and brought a lot ofo technology to china and there is now this attempt to look more closely at what kind of technology is flowing into the chinese companies or the chinese government. the last several months and you get the chips act as opposed to invest in manufacturing capacities and development of semi conductors and allies but he also see along with that expert controls. in some ways the most important

and a step to ensure some of the most advanced equipment for manufacturing semi conductors and some of the most advanced technology can't make it and in some ways i think this spoofed the chinese government much more than the parts of the act that are focused on building manufacturing capacities here. all of that is seen as the normal state of competition butthese very assertive attempty the u.s. government to prevent semi conductor equipment and technology from going to china as i think it is a new step in this relationship the kind of thing we will see much more of but indicates the level of's concern and some of o that is in the job's concerns but some is about the technology as well. >> on the economic engagements the biggest concrete sign of that 9 engagement was china joining the wto back in 1999 how did the clinton administration

feel about that effort? were they in favor of that and where there are people raising red flags at theiseg time saying china could use this to open this up to the rest of the world? >> if you go back you see voices that were predicting back then no matter what we did and no matter what kind of economic development to bring china into the international system you would still see it ultimately emerged as a competitor and arrival of the united states. there was still a much broader view across parties if you go back to the administration in the early 2,000 us in the sense that ultimately if you have trade and business and development that would start to drive change in the international behavior in the political systems ofd the wto

decision was seen as part of this that if you got more people with exposure to u.s. companies that ultimately that would help drive that political change and it was only ten years later when you started to see the much broader political form that change wasn't happening in the assumptions about what trade generally would mean for china but if you do go back you will seeee voices who saw the kind of hope in that moment is ultimately pollyanna -ish. they were optimistic and so those voices i think became much louder as you got into the last decade or so as a kind of key mistake. as the story suggests but the assumption that went along with

that would be hopeful and retrospect.n the >> on the line for democrats, good morning. >> good morning. thank you for letting me speak this morning. i'm sitting here and laughing because i am a world war ii child so i'm going back a little ways and they've been playing footsie with us ever since world war ii and now we are worried about the chinese. okay, i have readi a book backn the early 60s written by a general. at the end of his book he said we have won this war but we are going to havear to decide who ae we going with.ch the russians were chinese and we did not do either one.

but to be so dependent on china it just absolutely blows my mind. we are a self sufficient country. how dumb are we need to let all this happen. thank you for letting me speak and have a great day. >> daniel on u.s. china russian revolution post-world war ii certainly a topic that you have nswritten about. >> as i eluded to earlier after world war ii this moment before the communist revolution happened because in ways it feels familiar and china would move in the direction and to becomeour ally. that was a development plan nixon went to china and you have these processes opening that is the u.s. and china aligning

against what both of us saws this thread and the soviet union and it took decades for that. it was successful, but in the post-cold war when things started to shift you saw moves in the other direction and now we see the exact opposite with russia and china moving closer to one another as a greater threat. the question of dependence it cuts in both directions and some interesting ways. the u.s. is of course dependent on china in many respects, but as a more dependent power. you see it as a place that has lessened the way of its own resources in a very complicated neighborhood that depends on the sea lanes and trade routes that run through much more geopolitically a turbulent places and also this is where it doesn't have a lot of allies right around china the american partners and economically geopolitically militarily so as much as we may focus on our own

dependence on china i think that it's worth remembering china feels even more vulnerable in this regard because it doesn't have some of these geographic advantages and importantly it doesn't have the network of the alliance and partners. so this has been a focus of u.s. policy going back to the period ursula was talking about during the cold war but it's been an even greater focus in the last few years that this isn't just about china and the u.s. but in ways that are almost unprecedented if you go back decades or centuries this enormous network of allies and partners in some circumstances see it in slightly different terms. there is a complete agreement between the u.s. and europeans or allies in asia on how we see the challenge but by and large i

think there is the view the system needs to be reinforced and detoured and we need to kind of work together to limit the ability to coerce economically and if you look at this combined globally and especially in east asia, that provides a significance when you look at the independence i think that looks like a much scarier question if you are a chinese policymaker that it does in our advantage and of course that lays the need to the sources of vulnerability china may have or the united states but it's also worth remembering that united states has a lot of those sources as well and that is a really important advantage. i think we have seen in lots of initiatives over the last few years to shore up some of those alliances you want to focus on japan and south korea. an important move that didn't get the headlines of your gone into saudi arabia for xi jinping

speeches between japan and south korea to overcome some of the disagreements about again going back to the period ursula talked about in world war ii. some of the disagreements about history took a while. much more closely now. so that's goingo be a really importantevelopment in east asia and initiatives that involved the united states, japan, india and australia working more closely together. you've seen the partnership a couple of years ago to provide and which the united states, great britain. all of these when looked at from the chinese vantage are a huge advantage to the united states and we have seen i think efforts across the administration to shore up alliances and create some of these new groups that are about sending a signal to china that it's not going to be able to use its leverage to disrupt the order in east asia or globally without facing

pushback from a group of countries that represent a huge portion of global gdp and military so that doesn't make the challenge of china or russia that much easier but it is a huge advantage the united states has. >> if you want to see the book the china mission george marshall the 1945 to 1947 we cover an event you can see into their april 16 to 2018. that book came out in 2018 covered on booktv. c-span.org is right there to watch that video. it's coming up on 8:30 about halfway through the conversation with daniel this morning. tom has been waiting in ohio on the line for republicans. good morning. >> yes. i have listened to him talk now quite a bit and he is talking about giving warnings. ross perot, mr. trump they've

open giving warnings for quite a while. they said clinton was going to hurt us if he got nafta through which they goaded through. thank you very much. >> host: daniel on some of the folks that warned about china and particularly the trump administration response. >> guest: so, i think that we are going back again to the period that we have been talking about in the '90s where there was the since the trade was going to change china for the good and create a different a china and of course that hasn't happened. there are voices warning about an event but i think that when the nafta dimension of this is complicated and interesting because when you look at the response to the chinese economics now there is the sense that one of the advantages the united states has and one of the things it needs to do is improve trade relationships closer to home and that includes china and

mexico. at the building it is focused on the trade deals with all the newspapers and it looks to the united states and in some ways envious of the set of economic relations. i think what you see now is less of a focus on global trade, trading with everyone across different geopolitical faultlines and different kinds of political systems and focuses on shoring up those relationships with allies so there's lots of work on economic coordination between. some of that is about russia and ukraine right now but also some of it is about china. ekyou have seen new initiativesn east asia and the economic frameworkec is the one that the biden administration has rolled adout. but there is i think still in an effort ongoing to get started on the trump administration and the biden administration to find new ways of usingin economic power d

that are not the old global free trade system so the partnership with the initiative that was started in the bush years and continued on to the free trade agreement with partners in east asia that didn't include china at the time but now that n there is this sense of those old trade models with u.s. economic interest in the right way there's still an effort to find a way to apply economic leverage that wouldn't just replicate some of the same models that were dominant in the '90s were 2,000. you saw thehe beginnings of the use of leverage and the trump administration with some of the tariffs and the trade war that dominated headlines. the administration kept those in place within ongoing efforts to figure out what that trade relation looked like. trade has grown and this is true

across the administration even with all the headlines about the htrade friction and war and ths is a very dense economic relationship to talk about the decoupling ate a high level of what that means in practice but i still think it is something the policymakers across the administration are trying to that is a focus on reducing vulnerabilities to the key areas for national security and again as i was talking about earlier, technology transfer to china that that is not the same thing as blooming of this entire economic relationship and where that ends. whether that is another couple of years or six more but across the future administration those well this is an ongoing process figuring out a new vision for the economic relationship and we are really just in the beginning relationships of this. >> jim on the line for

republicans. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i missed the first hour of calls so i hope i'm not redoubling something. how d dumb are we as the democratic party. they've come out and said they have four business partners and they have bank statements and stuff showing where he's benefited greatly from these chinese communist party's. he wanted to wait until we had all t of the intel and then putt down. speaking to biden's financial ties with china and hunter biden's influence -- >> daniel.

>> guest: i see the policy direction across the administration's as coming in a very different i direction than the caller suggests. this isn't a case where you see a shift back to again the kind of older view of u.s. china policy. ifcy anything there's been a lot of continuity across the administration's when it comes to this view of the need to take a hard line with china. so there've been i think grumblings among people on the left about the ways in which the biden andin china policy looks. a lot of ways he didn't get right at the tariffs. there's still lots of elements of what you saw in the trump china policy under this administration. we've spent a lot of time talking about a lack of partnership and bipartisanship in the politics. this isti a case where you see a fair degree of bipartisan agreement with the differences over to exactly what the right

responsese is. but if you watch the senate select committee or house select committee on china proceedings a couple weeks ago chaired by mike gallagher you saw a fair degree of consensus about what exactly the challenge was and again while there were differences on the policies, i don't think that you see any attempt to kind of minimize the challenge from either side. so if anything this is a case of running someone in contrast and many other areas with american politics. there isra a high degree of bipartisanship because there's the sense that this will have to be a policy framework that is continued across theic administration. this was true in the cold war of course while there were debates aboutot what exactly the right response to the soviet challenge was.re there was a bipartisan framework that was put in place first in the truman administration and then continued in the eisenhower administration and again with all the changes in the presidency over the subsequent years a fairly high degree of

agreement about the basic challenge, and i think we are seeing the same thing with people arguing about whether it's right to call this a new cold war when you can dispute the analogy but i think one area of similarity is the sense that there will be bipartisan focus on this going forward and that's going to be true in the biden administration and i suspect that it will be true without anyone in the white house coming in. >> this is a a complicated partf the relationship. this is about taiwan which has been one of the biggest flashpoints in the relationship and i think it still remains a really important dimension of thiswa. this goes back to that history.

1949 when in the nationalist government that had been u.s. backed infighting the communist control of china which drew us into taiwan. so they see this as the legitimate party to seize back control. there was kind of an agreement to recognize the view of this without supporting the attempt by beijing to take back taiwan by force. this was kind of a broad agreement again with details that more or less worked for a while but over the last several years as the chinese powers grow you see more out of beijing especially under xi jinping about the need to take control of taiwan even if it provides

military force in the next few years. the agreement over taiwan and the stability of this has really started to come apart and i think that is why people see taiwan as the great flashpoint and i s saw the recent flareup here when the speaker of the house visited in august and china responded with lots of military drills and the blockade and doing lots of other things that would be useful if they didn't want to use military force to forcefully unify the chinese mainland and taiwan. but i think we are going to see flareups like this quite frequently going forward because the speaker of the house kevin mccarthy in the next couple of years we will see probably an escalation of what he did last time around so this i think is going to be one of the hardest areas for the u.s. policymakers because it requires detouring china from doing anything especially taking military action with regards to taiwan but at the same time trying to

prevent where that leads to. >> 20 minutes left and plenty of calls. let me take two at a time and then we will come back for your thoughts. outstanding guest and most useful, hopeful, clearfu description he's described. i am a utopian who wishes to remind everyone that we are on a dust while hurtling through space. ..

where nation -based identity versus global identity in itself is in a transition of tectonic plates that are shifting. so i would like to invent something in the middle called warm more except it is a mouthful or a tepid war. humanity has evolved beyond the point where nation -based identity god help us republican partisan identity to stop human evolution. okay people weum are in a period of profound human evolution. host: independent line go ahead. >>caller: hello.

my biggest concern to be honest i have a trust issue that's why i became a independent musical after obama became president but also with our adversaries. and then with our pharmaceuticalsmi and vitamins coming from china and that is tainted and china tries to kill us one way or another i remember years ago doing it with sheet rock how many people had to die and there is no response to that now fentanyl which is just letting it happen that's whenever trust the party that the concern because the whole line of walmart vitamins are all done in d china spring valley how do you know that's not tainted? host: drugs in supply chains. >> both colors point to a really important dimension so

if i can go to that wonky implication for more utopian firstng but this is true across administrations is even with the more competitive relationship with a bipartisan to p push back chinese influences there still a context in which the united states and chinath will have to find ways to prevent catastrophe for the interactions but also to do something on the global challenges that there is lot more we need to know before the origins and ideally to have some degree of cooperation between government

and international institutions thatnt could jump on more quickly and that's part of the problem and then the chinese government assembling exactly what was going on in ways that made it harder for the rest of the world toor respond but also active global coordination and then you have the attempt by the government to keep a minimal level of cooperation necessary to prevent the's issues even the more competitive relationship across other areas. the problem is that doesn't always work. you saw lots of cases where the chinese would cut off discussions over other issues and one of the scarier moments for me a few weeks ago was not so much the balloon itself

that when the secretary wanted to call and talk to a chinese counterpart about what was going on to make sure there wasn't aer misunderstanding , that his counterpart did not pick up the phone. all of those mechanisms to maintain some degree of coordination of those global threats that would affect all of us and also a catastrophe of the greater complex it's harder to maintain and then jim focuses on that fentanyl connection where it is part of that deterioration of the when there is more coordination with those chemicals coming out of china and that has broken down as well to a broader deterioration.

and we are all aware of the terrible toll of fentanyl in the united states with the shocking numbers of overdose but to some degree of international cooperation, not just china but much more broadly and then with that incredibly small quantities that are required to do so muchch didn't image that doesn't point you toward a great formula but itf does highlight the depth of the challenge where we are. host: i appreciate your ability to recall the viewers names the democratic line go ahead. >>caller. >> good morning gentlemen. one question with the china free trade who all those past

and present who voted for that? host: independent line in michigan good morning. >>caller: good morning. how long do you think it will take before someone tells us about the mushroom clouds that will be here? i did read in california that they are burying chemical weapons. host: the wto vote from 1999 in nuclear warhead was the concern? >> to very disparate topics see if i can do and won't answer so theth question the wto that again this goes holds for

a much broader view of economic development and commerce in the global system and this has been true with russia if it was trading than that when moderate behavior and then youe see the same debate with china so the hard part now is what type of global economy we should be pushing for if we need to be much more aware of the leverage at the previous caller was getting talked about like vitamins and supply-chain if you have dependence on that critical supply and gives some degree of leverage states and allies and partners while still having a growing economy and

not making it possible then i think as we meet the challenge even as we recognize the limitations of the world from framework that in the administration has come upil with now that kind of thing that both parties would be focused on fortu years in the future so the threat of nuclear war is usually back of mind and front of mind and talk about the taiwan strait and the focus is how you prevent a chinese attempt at a military takeover of thear island that very well could be in escalation. so all of this leads to the fact to the church china or anyone else we see the failure

in ukraine with russia russia was not deterred from that attempt you can argue about the history from when it might have been present american policymakers it was a wonky word but that is the million-dollar question and close to the fundamental fear about where this ends and it could bee nuclear war. so it's that balance to show a clear and i united front of the provocatively the chinese might make without getting too outright escalation and from previous discussion of and to

be able to pick up the phone with the chinese military and there is some kind of escalation that they are interpreted correctly that could lead to inadvertent escalation but this is a hard task for the members of the military going forward and there's moments when it comes to the surface in a way that has been unfamiliar for us the last couple of decades. host: the china daily the us language version by the ccp and then a friend or of the news organizations but they focus on the 14th national people's congress who was

recently elected and focusing on the vice premier we are detect about seizing peeing and his status within the party but what about the power structure with the state counselors and leaders of the 26 ministerial level government agency? >> there is a fevered effort among china watchers right now to understand who these people are and what it means. there are two different things if you look at the array of figures. one it is president xi party making an effort the last ten years to wipe out alternative power sources that anticorruptionth a huge amount within the parties and then was exposed by western media

outlets in those years but he use that as a way to put people and all of the's physicians and someone that has been very loyal to president xi and he was in the lockdown last year which was very costly at the beginning of the and that they are loyal to him and will not challenge him on the other hand there is the question if he can get the economyge growing again to have such a hold on the power now because of the tremendous economic growth. and then that is the extraordinary story of

economic growth. and that's what accounts for the stability and the political system and then that is harder to sustain and covid was the challenge but and with those economic tools that works and then to become much harder to use. and then to reverse those steps to undermine economic growth and president xi really ones that. and friendly to business. and with those key environments and the power of the state and to undercut

those technology leaders and others that can be drivers of growth whether i'm getting the economy going again. and then will be watching out over the coming months. >> colors have been on the line for a while. >> thank you for taking my call the most favored status that china has who is responsible for that expanding on the people that make this possible? can you name names of the people and can anything be done today? >> and next comments from houston texas good morning.

>> you answered a bunch of my question it seems like he is in trouble with the middle class. thank you. >> and what about the long-term status quick. >> not to repeat myself but it goes back to the moment there was across parties with the cold war with the h.w. bush administration and clinton in the george w. bush administration and the obama years. and in the us as dominant. and will congress. and then and then the

bipartisan view. but in starting ten years ago and then to rollback some of those steps to address the vulnerability and then investing in manufacturing in the united states and technology. it comes to the question with the end of the year covid. and then to take note of just how quickly president xi was moving talking about zero covid as it was a great

triumph. and order was very lockdown. people were testing all the time and then that surge had been you saw protest in november. and then the chinese leadership. and then there is the threat of thehe spread of covid and then but of course there is no one who believes that we are hearing from the ccp when it comes from covid deaths. and then he gets to the point like the much of the world it has more or less moved on and then it would have been hard

to imagine but in some ways to give an indication the speed with which they do these things because of the control that they have. so for years chinese officials throughout the government and then to turn on a dime which again is an indication of where we are and why this is such a challenging issue with this congress and going forward. >> finding a foreign affairs.com the book the china mission. what is the next book project? >> there's so much happening in the world i have not been able to step back and tells into the history the way i would like to a code directed a book that continues the story on thehe cold war but we need the world to come down a

little bit. >> thank you for your time