wherever you are my love will find you. have any of you -- >> i don't know that one come aboutma -- >> that one makes me cry. >> i have that book memorized. >> i have cap in the had memorized and we have now my oldest who is five is big on spider-man. it is an important part of the american literature so i'm supportive of spider-man. thanks for coming out.

>> all week on the washington journal we've been taking a closer look at the china and its growing military economic and geopolitical influence in the world. closing up this week today we are going to talk about china's human rights record with yaqui wang a senior researcher for the human rights watch. thank you very much for being here. how would you describe the

current situation, human rights situation in china? >> i would say it's a very bad and it's getting worse and worse and it's been getting worse and worse since president xi came to power inba late 2012. >> why, where is it happening, who is it happening to? >> i think it is happening to everyone in china but not just people in china but also people outside of china. since president xi came to power in late 2012, he tightened the grip over chinese society and all aspects. it's the deployment of massive surveillance. it's the control of the press and the majority ethnic group in

china. let's not forgetri to mention te tibet region and region that gets the most attention because of the most egregious violations. they are estimated to be in prison in those camps and the people that are subject to massive surveillance. let's not forget to mention hong kong and there's been all kinds of control over the population. >> you mentioned the population.

last year the united nations at report that china was responsible for serious human rights violation in this region. why the focus on them and why is the leadership focusing on them? >> they are in muslim minority that live in the third big area in northwest china. there's 13 million people there. it's because they are not from china,. they speak a different language and practice a different culture. they've been different religions. the chinese government doesn't like that. the chinese government wants the ethnic groups it's been a group

that enjoys some autonomy and practices their own religions. if there's that kind t of massie control and massive human rights violation in order to transform the population into more. >> you said that this gets the most attention but is it getting enough attention? >> i don't think it's enough attention just because of the scale of the violation. the degree of the violation. about the worry is to pay more attention and also doing more to try to address the issue. so in a way, i'm happy to see this change. >> said the scale of the abuses according to the ohc ir, the

abuses include crimes against humanity, anti-extremism, arbitrarybo detention, forced labor, forced medication and sexual abuse. how's the chinese government let outside observers into the area? >> no, not at all in any genuine way. journalists from big outlets from international media's were not allowed. if you can go there then the government follows you. so when you try to interview a person on the streets there will be the government agents trying to stop you. so it's very hard to do any kind of investigation by journalists or by scholars so there's no genuine access. >> we are talking about china

and a human rights abuses. part of our weeklong seriesab looking at china and its increasing military economic and geopolitical influence in the world. we want to take your questions and comments on the human rights part of the conversation this morning. democrats (202)748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independent us, 202-748-8002. send your first name city and state. join us on facebook.com/c-span and you can also send a tweet with the handle@c-span wj. last month during the first house select committee on china hearing, the human rights advocate spoke about her experience in the chinese labor camp after being convicted of disturbing social order for her ties to democracy activists.

take a look. >> 1993 began assisting as and interpreting leading dissident who had been released as a part of the bid for the 2,000 summer olympics game. they were urging the u.s. to condition trade on the human rights performance. i interpreted for his meetings with then senator john kerry and assistant secretary of state. our meeting alarmed the regime and we were arrested afterwards. in the detention in the wee hours of many mornings, police interrogatedin me about what he said to the u.s. dignitaries. they were truly afraid that the u.s. might listen. you can imagine my

disappointment when i heard that he decided to delink the issues of human rights and trade. i was handed a two and a half year sentence with a social order to be forced labor camp. in the labor camp the food was poor and we worked 12 hours a a day technically illegal under chinese law. i protected and for that organized other inmates. they were terribly and then tapered off. eventually, i was able with the help of a fellow inmate who smuggled a note about my condition out to my mother who factored into the human rights organization in new york. voices of america, the story,

other media pickedd it up. he asked for me in his next trip to beijing and with all that my treatment in the camps improved dramatically. >> yaqui wang is a senior china researcher for the human rights watch. listening to that, how common is it? >> it's very common. if you speak again you are detained and can be. when you are in prison you are often tortured but from this statement you can see for the western politicians press for change.

i wish the u.s. governments arounds, the world would speak p for the political activists that are imprisoned in china. >> by luck she was able to get her story out. >> you can have the lawyer that you choose and the lawyer can speak on their behalf and bring the message to the rest of the world. the governmentnm has pressured prisoners to have lawyers over the children so they are assigned a lawyer to you and they lawyers usually don't speak for your interests. they speak for the interests of the government.

>> let's hear from andrew in houston texas, democratic call. we are talking about china and human rights abuses. what is your question or comment? >> thank you for having me. hello. i have two questions. first question is about the people. i used to live in china and i know that there are around 56 5r 57 different ethnic minorities. they are one of them. they are both muslim. do you think that religion has something to do with china's persecution of these people? my second question is as a foreigner i felt during my time there i wasin treated well, buti had heard things. how are foreigners treated with regards to human rights by the

government? they played a role in the persecution i faulted no t doubt china is normally an atheist country. the government is controlled by the chinese communist party. it plays a huge role. it's also the catholics, christians, the government tries to control the church and so many believers who chose their own church that are not controls

by the chinese government in jail and detained. so absolutely religion played a huge role. second question. whether they were treated better, i definitely think thatt if you are from a western country and youco are generally treated bad by the population and by the government, of course racism played a role. people from the countries in a way if you operate in the t chinese society you are treated bad, but also another big issue is western governments speak up for the citizens if you are mistreated or let's say you are detained for sectarian crimes and the consulates care about your case or bring your case and

theca communication with the chinese government and that plays a huge role. >> on the population and the un report that it gives huge human rights abuses, the un human rights council voted not to hold the debate on the alleged human rights violations of these peopleg following the release f their own report. can you tell us why and what does that say about the un's role? >> the vote is 19-17. so to people outside of china, human rights issues who are not expert on this, it is such a disappointment to have a discussion. why that discussion can even happenis but for people we see this is a discussion because the

vote is so close. nineteen know we had a 17 yes. it's already a huge change, a huge achievement because in the past, in two decades they invested so much and tried to kill the humans voice. the chinese government has done so much to align itself with countries that share the same interests, tried to make the un less critical of the chinese government. in the past five years this had been changing more and more willing to speak up. not just western countries but also those that are kind of in the middle. somewhat authoritarian butut at

the same time the violation carried out against the population of muslims in china. so they have been and i'm glad to see the change and i hope there will be more arising from the un unit there are more countries willing to speak up about the human rights violation in china at the un. >> is there one country or a handful of countries that can hold china accountable, and if so, how would they do that? >> they had been critical but we need more. it's one state one vote to make them come together. if the states rally together it would be more and more powerful. i think a lot of states that are notta willing is because of the

economic ties. china invests in pakistan and thailand and malaysia, nigeria, brazil, all kinds of countries. so it is a big reason the countries are not willing to speak up against china. it isn't doing that well and they are retracting from other countries. so we see whether that will empower the countries to speak up against the human rights violations at thetr un or their own international stage. >> let's get back to calls. >> good morning. i just want to make sure

[inaudible] please don't blame all human rights violations the last 200 years [inaudible] >> what do you make of his comments there? there is the name for women wearing a scarf, for men having a beard.

you can be sentenced to jail for having the app on your phone. you can be sentenced for ten years for having whatsapp on your f phone. of their own constitution they are in jail for basically being themselves. in the past there were sporadic violent actions by very small groups of people in the authorities with the chinese people.

we have gotten in the last 20 years there has been a big influx of chinese students that have come into the universities in these areas. i imagine that is going on all around the country. what i was wondering is is there some sort of a educational outreach program your organization has to make these people aware of what's going on in the region? because i suspect they probably don't even know about it. >> a very good question. i'm glad you asked. for me i came to the u.s. i grew up in china and couldn't get the information i wanted about the region and tiananmen

square. you have the freedom of information and i think a lot of chinese kids have come here that have the same experience. you are exposed to a free society and you can get the information that it would ban in china. so i think people are getting more information and when i was in the u.s., the people who came from china earlier, they tried to reach out to me i know when i was here they got in touch with me because they wanted to show me what is actually going on. .. o >>

because on the west soil to harass chinese students in a lot of people are worried in the us iwh talk about the human rights violation whether my parents in china would be harassed back to china so people have all kinds of fears so they are waiting to speak up so as a society forced a environment people are less afraid to talk about human rights violations and less afraid of learning about the

stuff going on in the country how do we encourage them and also the american government had you know the chinese agents are not h here harassing and intimidating people here? host: is that happening to you personally as a student or now? have your parents or any family or friends experience harassment in china quick. >> absolutely had want to get into too much detail that does not do well for them. but it is happening. not just me but a lot of people in china speak against the government. they tried to take pictures of you had record video of you. is only youtube everybody can watch at just focusing on me

what is the video for? host: have you reported that to us authorities? is there tracking of these people from china who are here and are they here legally? >> i think a lot of people do not know how to report. human rights watch have been talking to create a mechanism you go to an event about china the campus of george washington you see someone trying to harass you or take a video of your a picture of your face if you are comfortable there should be a mechanism that you can report they should record the incidents and send the report

to the us government. there needs to be more done by universities and american government that chinese students feel comfortable living here that they can speak up. >> in the camera around on them. >> yes you can take out your own phone. host: is it possible to have freedom of religion within a communist doctrine? t>> it is less about the government itself being communist but how the government does not allow the practice of religion. any type of religion to cap muslim or christian government that they allow the practice of other religions by its own

people that if the government doesn't allow that if any kind in china. >> cap we wish her criticism of china's record is not directed toward chinese-americans? >> it's a good issue. i'm a chinese person living in america. i have been called racist slurs. i will the us government to make itt very clear those criticism which china is a chinese government not the people. but to make it clear any kind of racist actions against chinese nationals cannot be

tolerated so those actions are to the chinese government and also make it clear anti- asian racism should not be tolerated. host: democratic color minnesota. >>caller: she keeps talks about human rights abuse in china but what about the us with our prisons who are not even found guilty and stuck in prison subjectsu to abuse women she also says people are arrested for no reason in china did she watch any other protested 2020 where people were literally wrapped up by border patrol agents and police for existing and trying to exercise first amendment

rights? >> it is a valid criticism of us government i'm with china and we also have a program that decorates —- documents a lot of the criminal justice system in the last we also watched those violations in the us within the immigration system. we do have a department to cover those violations in the usob pat is not my job to just talk about the us violations but we also criticize human rights in the us. host: go to the website.

>> it's awful about what is happening in china and goes on to write due to china strict control how does one find out about the abuses the chinese find out aboute the abusers quick. >> people are afraid to talk about it those are the people that tell the stories and what rihappens to them there are hundreds or thousands in the human rights watch to those in

the region that is directly from the chinese government and there are satellite images that they can see the prison campsu with the use of technology utilized to find out what's going on in the region with the rest of china and there is still a degree but still they are able to be in the country people can be

punished by talking to western journalists also a big venue how people find out what's going on in china is the internet talk about tiananmen square massacre them amend using euphemism and about what happened to them and that discussion is so overwhelming it's just not up to censor the information. >> you mentioned 13 million in that region word you describe what is going on there as

genocide quick. >> at the human rights watch talk about crimes against humanity those that were imprisoned in the camps there were half a million than the people in the detention center subject to labor and not forced to abortion and for sterilization and. >> but the distinction? >> and genocide and then to reduce the population with the

crimes against humanity. but the human rights watch the crimes against humanity we just have not done detailed assessment to say we have not done that yet. >> good morning thank you for taking my call. and then it disappeared from the radar. the chinese health department officials into the residence of china's apartments after they were taken away to come

in isolation in murdering theiret pets. that i called the chinese consulate but they never called me back but i was very disturbed by this you can tell how people are treated when they treat the animals. that's of the chinese government treats pets that's not a good sign. what did you think about that article. >> it into the video the corgis that were killed by the house officers under the very jacobian zero covid policy

people are left to die in their apartments and somehow even the s science community already said parents on —- pets cannot give it to people but still the health workers to make sure it was zero covid so that includes an then for the pets to be killed and then i saw the video of the corgi and it was heartbreaking and people were very check very angry. so the caller said in new york times there are more incidents in china and some of them got

to publish it was reported by the western media. >> how much has china used covid to control its population? what was the reason for not vaccinating the population? is there any court recourse demanded by the general public for the force lockdown has the government messaging changed so they were forced to rollback regulations after they witnessedr the world had moved on in full display at the world cup quick. >> such a seriously good question the people were very angry while under a lockdown. atf lockdown was completely

unscientific and abusive. people did not die from covid at that time. but a lot of people died because they could not get access to hospitals, medical care, and people were starving because the food delivery was not running smoothly. so they could not get food. after they were confined in their apartments. there was so much anger and then where do you express that kind of anger or protest? you can't. there is no media relief you cannot call a journalist and say this happened to me can you write about it your paper? so you can go to the internet but the internet is very censored. if you criticize the government your post can be removed. if you do it into much time the government will try to detain you and if you repeatedly do it you can be detained. is a lot of anger and people know it is right but they are

not able to express themselves or hold the government accountable. then, the government suddenly nixed the zero covid policy. a lot of people died because they were not prepared because the hospitals were not prepared to handle that kind of influx of patients. and then people can go into the government saying accountability -- saying you had this zero covid policy and without preparation you suddenly opened up and a lot of people died. and there is no way you can have -- hold the government accountable. in terms of vaccines, that's a good question. why did the government not do enough to vaccinate people when people were on the lockdown? i do not actually know how to answer your question because to me it was obvious the government should do that when the chinese

government has so much control over the population. why it didn't vaccinate enough percentage of its population. host: when it comes to human rights, does this headline concern you? china's president convicted the russian president putin in a global role with the two of them getting together next week? guest: absolutely it concerns me. the chinese government -- after the invasion of ukraine was cited with the russian government. and it had a change a little bit in trying to say it wanted to play -- claim the role for peace. really it is not it is still in line with the russian government. i would say that there was one journalist and he raised a question about china's chinese government aligning with russia and then he got sentence to

seven months in jail for comments on the chinese social media. you can see how hard it is to speak up against the chinese government policies. not just the human rights violations area host: mike in illinois wants to know is it normal for the chinese government to have secret police stations in the united states? and is there >> i think it is around by problem that chinese asians are in different countries to carry out harassment and intimidation. that is a road wide problem. im glad to see the authorities are paying attention in the us

last you the fbi arrested five people who tried to intimidate chinese dissidents those arrest and a clear message there will be punishment against chinese agents to do those kind of activities and in the canada and australia they should do the thing the same to invest more resources and then to silence other chinese people to speak up on the chinese government. host: independent line. >>caller: thank you meant thank you to your gas to an

ins what is going on. at my age i really don't know whole lot of what is happening over there. and how your education came about what type of schooling you had if your parents have decided you can come to the united states or were they keeping you fromo coming and i will hang up and listen to your answer. >> i came to the states into thousand nine. it was a different time i went to college in china. it was a much freer place. the internet, icad access new york times, c-span and then

the chinese people talk about democracy. people were very energized at that time and wanted to make the country to be a more just society. there was only censorship in china but not as bad as it is now and people meant to the internet if they were curious and then the us democracy and then to come to learn about this country or to learn new things that is why i came to the states and why many chinese students who came here. >> why word president xi traumatized from those culturally cultural policies surpass the total system

quick. >> the chinese communist party that came to power in 1949 and the party in just the past 40 years there has been more liberal but then when he came to power him and the party felt there is too much the way to allow the population to access the internet to have more media freedom maybe they are out of control that want the communist party anymore that is very threatening that's why president xi came across the repression and over time became more jacobian because they are very scared of losing control over the countryy and then with the

economic development they feel the rise of the chinese nation then that has been exported where more repression when the government tried to export repression. >> . >> actually move from king george down to florida but i kept my same phone number. thank you for your bravery bringing the subject to america's attention. what kind of human rights violations have you witnessed or heard aboutt that the communist party in china has wielded against christians? and why do you think communist are afraid of religions that a

guide controls the spiritual and personal life quick. >> the chinese government has been carrying out and the christian community the pasthu ten years. i came from a province of a lot of christian churches. and the government has been tearing down those churches the buildings. they want to demolish those architecture. it is very sad. prominent christian pastors have been imprisoned. one was an outspoken pastor and intellectual. a few years ago he was sentenced to 12 years in prison for having an independent church in china. but why is the government cracking down on christians?nt

because the church wants to run independently and people want tond believe something that is not controlled by the chinese government and any kind of independent thinking is the into the chinese government fundamentally they want to control people's behavior and thinking so if you believe in god then you don't believe inn the party and they cannot tolerate that. host: if you are's want to learn more go to hrw.org. human rights watch senior china researcher. thank you for the conversation. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me.