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meeting late yesterday at the widest it will also look at some of news including the entry of tim'ss got into the presidential racee. but are opening topic is should the president used the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling? on those meetings yesterday here's the reporting of roll call this morning here at mccarthy no deal yet but debt limit meeting is productive. our question will begin with the 14th amendment itself passed after the civil war ratified in 1868. says in part this. the validity of the public debt of the united states authorized by law including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services, suppressing insurrection or rebellion shall not be questioned. and help us bettersh understand the role of the 14th amendment and its potential role in this debt ceiling crisis we're joined by the president and ceo for national constitution center jeffrey rosen. morning, mr. rosen.

>> guest: good morning. >> host: great to have you on this point. the 14th amendment of the most commonly see it it seems is used in issues including citizenship, the protection of equal rights and civil rights in states. how does the debt ceiling, the national debt it into the 14th amendment? >> guest: this is such an important conversation and thanks for having me on. so after the civil war there is a concern among northern republicans that the south will either try to repudiate its war debt to the north, or will get the new union to pay back the seven debt but not the northern debt. that's one concern. that's covered by the second section of the 14th amendment, the since right after the one you just read the said neither the united states nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion

against the united states. but at the same time is also a concern that the democrats will devalue the debt by allowing it to be repaid in greenbacks, in paper currency, rather than in gold which was the obligation of the coven at the time. and it was really to avoid that possibility of repaying the debt in devalued currency that the first sense of the 14th amend was passed. let's read the crucial in which again in the validity of the public debt of the united states authorized by law shall not be questioned. so that language shall not be questioned is not entirely clear but the obvious core original purpose of that was to prevent the government from devaluing the debt and ensuring that it would be repaid in gold. just to rehearse the economic arguments against devaluation,

the democrats feared that individual bonds were repaid in gold it would be a windfall to wall street because many of those initial bonds might have been resold to speculators at lower cost, and, therefore, by compensating the holders of the bonds rather than the original bondholders you were going to transfer money from the original bondholders to wall street. interestingly, and this is exactly the same constitutional argument the surround the creation of the national bank. everyone knows from the hamilton musicall about howell central that bank controversy was to all of american constitutional history and it was the same arguments event about are you going to give a windfall to speculators who bought bonds at discount when you repay them in gold or create a national bank? >> host: in your view in 2023 is there a liturgy to the aargument some democrats and

progressives in particular saying the president notyi payig the countries that would be unconstitutional, based on that very small amount of language in the 14th amendment? >> guest: so the answer is it's complicated of course and there's not a a clear answer because this has never been litigated or attempted. attempts to get the president unilaterally toth repudiate the debt began during the clinton years when we started having its regular dispute over the raising of the debt ceiling. let me give you the arguments on both sides because as i say it's never been tried and there's not a clear answer. the argument in favor of being made by democrats although it had been made by republicans during previous disputes over the debt ceiling under earlier president, is that the language is mandatory and that essentially by creating a debt ceiling statute, and that statute dates back to 1917 when congress first created the debt

ceiling, congress was repudiatingg, was questioned the debts of the united states,st ws ensuring that those who are owed money wouldn't be paid and that violates the plain language of the amendment. the argument on ts multifaceted. the first is the amendment prohibits congress from officially repudiating the debt, saying the bondholders can never be paid. it does not allow the president to act on his own, nor the statute passed in 1917, so the president's job cannot ignore the law. even the 1917 law raises constitutional questions. it is not the president's job to ignore it. that is the strongest argument,

he cannot pick and choose. there was a lot more to say but that is the core of it. host: play this out. if the president does try to invoke the 14th amendment in terms of raising the debt ceiling, what does that look like in terms of a constitutional challenge? would it be immediately challenged in the courts and how quickly would go to the appeals process and potentially, the supreme court? guest: great questions. it is uncharted territory because we have not seen it before. the supreme court can act quickly these days, as we have seen in the debate over the shadow doc. they can try to stop or allow actions it thinks it violates the constitution. we imagine it would get up to the court very quickly. there is one big precedent and an interesting one that would be

great for viewers to check out. it is called the perry case. when the u.s. wanted to go off the gold standard it says that all bonds shall be redeemed in gold. 5-4 decision. chief justice charles evans hughes said this is unconstitutional because congress cannot say that it will not pay back the bonds in gold. nevertheless, there is no remedy allowed because mr. perry is only entitled to the dollar amount, not the weight in gold. this is a huge marbury versus madison case. as to the treasury bonds,

congress cannot say they will be paid in gold, but the guy is not entitled to remedy because there is no circulating market for gold and cannot demand he received more money -- receive more money than the bond entitles. host: they were getting a ton of this on constitution.org. what are the most common questions? guest: the questions you are asking now. can the president raise the debt ceiling on his own? why was the clause originally passed? these are absolutely the right questions. viewers, go to the interactive constitution center's website. it is so meaningful to be able to learn from these experts and

make up your own mind. you can go to the website, read the arguments on both sides, read the perry opinion and have this debate you are having. c-span is such a wonderful partner in hosting these debates. you citizens are so good to educate yourselves. host: if your travel plans take you to philadelphia, it is a must stop. jeffrey rosen, president and ceo at the national constitution center. thank you for joining us here on "washington journal." guest: great to be with you. thank you. host: our opening question is, should the president invoke the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit? (202)-748-8000 if you say yes. (202)-748-8001 if you say no. (202)-748-8002 if you are unsure. we will get to your calls

momentarily. we wanted to we did want to play the h comets of house speaker kevin mccarthy after he left the white house yesterday, spoke with reporters at the capital. here's what he had to say. >> progress has been made. >> productive? >> with congress. i think the productive part was who was in the room? we're not talking over each other.ot we're not saying let's bring something new into discussion come let's not talk about raising taxes. that's been off for a long time. we literally talked where we're having disagreements and ideas. so to me that's productive. not progress but productive. >> host: are like, to your phone calls on on a morning . we'll start with tony in bradenton, florida, on the yes line. >> good morning. just want to say absolutely, yes.

if trump can take his -- why cannot the united states of american can take the best priority that voted for biden and take them, can take the maga republican to court to federal court nor supreme court? i mean, you have to understand that remember who bought the first -- before that there were two other republicans. [inaudible] hitler took advantage. just think about it.ta if we go to a second depression is goingse to be horrible to united states. and you know who is going to be happy?ho putin and his allies. just remember that. so the extreme maga republicans want to destroy better and does the veteran benefits come salsas

to do, medicaid, medicare, you name it. try what do you think those issues would be part of a debt deal? >> caller: absolutely. i mean, the republicans all they care is to protect their own donors. donors meeting wealthy people, the one percenter that's how they make, it's like, if i was trump, i like my donors because they are rich, their powerful. they are billionaires. i mean, look at the supreme court, the african american. iou mean, paid his mom, buying s house. think about it. >> host: will go to to are no line in minneapolis. , good morning thank you for accepting my call. "good morning america." good morning c-span. the reason why ihy say no is because it reminds me of the watergate when the senate was the one that made nixon resign.

and it was the senate that made ronald reagan make martin luther king's birthday a national holiday. but he didn't want to do it. the president today, they're acting like we got two presidents. i mean, the former president said something and they are following him. what this president should do is explain to the american people that it's their job to work with him, not to oppose something that's important. this is very important, right? this should've been done a long time ago. if i was him i would stand on that and say no, because they are supposed to be behind him, not following donald trump and that's my story and i'm sticking to it. >> host: p. j. calling from south carolina. good morning, p. j. >> caller: good morning. iom believe that the debt ceilig should not be political, period,

that's it. if they want to reduce spending, then they do it to the other process, creating budgets, set up your to me we're making at not just complicated but we're making it political, and that's not right. thank you very much for taking my call. >> host: "the associated press" writing about our morning topic like biden is wary of using the 14th amendment to address the debt limit crisis. they write biden has viewed the 14thth amendment route as appalled medic untested legal theory to ensure the country can meet its financial obligations. treasury says if congress fails to act before the june 1 date it could kick the country into a painful recession. still, with the white house and republican legislators at loggerheads over whether congress should allow the

government to and trim or deaths of the can pay its bill or insist on entering it with deep spending cuts estimated by the gop, it's no surprise the president the president might be looking at alternatives. here's some of what the president had to say before yesterdays late afternoon meeting at the white house between the president and kevin mccarthy. >> i'm glad the speakers here today. we are optimistic we can make some progress because we both agree that the fault discovered on the table. we've got to get something done here. the consequence for failing to pay our bills would be the american people would have a real kick in the economy. as a effectiveness of the world would, too. we also agree need to reduce the deficit, and i might add that in my first years as president i reduced it by $1.7 trillion. i'm also for reducing and continue to reduce the deficit.

we both talked about the need for bipartisan agreement. we have to be a position where we can sell it to our constituencies. we're pretty well defined and, almost on the middle and is not any different in the senate. we have to get something for both sides. we need to cut spending but he hears the disagreement. we have to think we should go look at tax loopholes and make sure the wealthy pay their fair share. i think revenue matters as well as as long as you're not taxing anybody under 400,000 bucks, so we will still have some disagreements but i think we may be ablee to get where we have to go. we both know we have significant responsibility with that i will commit over to the speaker. kevin, it's all yours. >> i think the president. we had a very productive conversation yesterday even though he was coming back from the g7 meeting. we do have disagreements.me i think we have on a 50 year more average web already come than enough time but we both

agree we need t to change directory that our debtth is too large.e. i think it into the day we can find common ground, make our economy stronger, take care of this debt but more importantly get the government moving again tome curb inflation, making us less dependent on china and make our appropriations system work. >> make appropriations work. [laughing] >> host: that meeting late yesterday at the white house. comments on social media about our morning topic. this one says biden will invoke the 14th amendment ifvo you must. after that you hear scalded cuts from the right how dare he do his duty? this one says republicans would love for thiss country to defaut because it would be buying frenzy for which money bankers, backers. everything will be so cheap. they will do everything at the window country. the country should not have to endure bankruptcy because of a quote fascist republican party. the ig for afghanistan recently testified the taliban is most likely taking the money we are

sending too people during drougt and famine. why doesn't karger stopped spending, sending money? this one from -- when your position is my way or the highway and compromise as a dirty word and makes it so easy to blame the other guy, doesn't it? why does your party believed blamed blame the others is ain solutio? susan was on the gas line in germantown, maryland. welcome. >> caller: i think you should use the 14th amendment because mccarthy is going to do nothing to jeopardize the far right that put in his position. and if we don't then we are headed for such a massive default, it is truly pathetic in my generation. i've never seen anything liken this, this kind of negotiation before.

i am hopeful that he uses the 14th amendment. >> host: delaware on the no line. >> caller: we should not, he should not invoke the 14th amendment. we are not goinge to default on our debt, , and we need to stop the spending. it's ridiculous. there are many, many thinn cut, and if he is so, if the democrats are so hot on this then some of the far left people who have stolen our money, maybe they can take in. thank you. >> host: in south carolina martin is also on the yes line. tell us why, martin. go ahead. >> caller: yes. just to double back on things, the first amendment and second amendmentme are fully used. there's no reason not to use the 14th amendment for those that indicate that others are using

it entitlements should return the money, you know, i think entitlements is very similar to giving tax breaks to the rich and that needs to be turned back in time, and president biden should do thatt to be able to increase the revenue stream that will reduce our total overall debt in the long run. >> host: do you think he will get any takers on the republican side, however, for increasing taxes for increasing revenue? >> caller: you know, i think he's got to push it. that's something they can then use in the next cycle of elections. they they've got to have ammn one way or the other and that's what the republicans are doing right now by pushing this to the right to the end. they're going to try to use that in the election cycle, and i think we need something else from the democratic side to push back on it. democrats need to be a little

bit better. they almost got tomo take on the republican persona in the way they approach things because a lot of times they will just okay, you know, and be done with it, versus will put up a fight and do the same way that republicans have in the past and be difficult about things. >> host: we heard an earlier soundbite from kevin mccarthy, the speaker, use the word productive but yesterdays talks. the "washington times" uses that in a headline as well. mccarthy biden fail on deal and productive talk. house speaker mcculloch and president biden said limit talks on monday night were productive but failed to deliver a deal as both sides raced to agree on cutting' spending raising the nation's borrowing limit against default deadline nine days away. .. negotiators for republicans ad

the administration would "work through the night." let's hear from steve who says no, the president should not use the 14th amendment. steve is in san jose, california. caller: i say no but more more importantly let's propab this up. track record thinking he can forgive student loan debt. i prophesy he's going to take it to the maximum before proclaiming he's invoking the 14th amendment. america extreme minute and proclaim the nation and resolve

this issue. this will force republicans to take it to the court. now since yellin already proclaimed june 1 if the republicans get a reversal and courtt say biden cannot do that at that time the in default a and he will proclaim republicans put us in default. >> north carolina, good morning. >> the president should use every means because the debt ceiling, i worked in finance, the debt ceiling doesn't work in the words of ronald reagan on social media social security

trust fund is not a budget item. $4 trillion, the reason they talk about on capitol hill, the biggest amount of money spent on a budget every year his military spending. do we need all these bonds? all for paying people in uniform because of a veteran 44 years you've got to understand. biden harris, it's congress. republicans and democrats because last time in my lifetime a budget bill that was great was during bill clinton. republican negotiated things with the democrats and things get done. social security needs to not even we talked about, is not a budget item. the trust fund is a fund

generated in it's going in there. if you don't address military spending of monies in foreign countries, it's a sliver in the budget pie. >> "wall street journal" this morningon saying the phony debt ceiling calamity, the author the u.s. treasury predicted to robert cash, the earliest is june 1. janet ellen warned of economic statutory debt limit. whether it's defaulting on interest payments due on the debt or social security recipients or medicare providers, we simply not have enough cash to meet all obligations. others say this is dangerously misleading.

it will cause a default on the national debt. debt payments of the future and the government pays off debt, the debt subject to the statutory limit declines. this means the government can roll over such obligations, issue new debt to pay off all that without violating the debtm limit. the same piece, offers regarding the 14th moment,g he social security benefits servicing the national but, there legally obligatory because the biden administration continue continue to make such payments regardless of such payments wouldn't have the cost off any other federal payment it must do so otherwise the administration would fail its constitutional duty to execute those statutes, an argument that would apply without support of the 14th amendment public laws.

his what ted cruz had to say over the weekend on call to invoke the 14th and. >> legally frivolous, someone who agreed with that was barack obama. the left tried to convince obama to do this and he said no, you can't under the terms of the constitution. it's a provision put in place to say we will pay civil war debt, it refers to the civil war we fought and paid the war debts off and tribes position doesn't hold water either. joe biden can ensure we don't default on the debt, ample authority to do that is to do it right now by saying we will pay interest on the debt. what they want is not to pay interest on the debt, but they want to do is pay $6 trillion in other government spending and a nothing in the 14th amendment gives the power to do that. once they run out of money, they

have to obey what congress appropriated and what happened, the position of the democrats for two months was they wouldn't talk at all and now their position is we can't cut any government spending recently, we have to let it skyrocket. it's irresponsible. what we are doing to give an order of magnitude in 2017 total government spending was $4 trillion. tax s revenue 3.3 trillion, $700 billion deficit. fast forward to today. total government spending has gone from 4 trillion only up to nearly$7 trillion, doubled since 2017. what have tax revenues done? 3.3 trillion to write about $5 trillion so we are taking in taxes but they can't keep up with the democrats wild spending.

>> our conversation about the 14th a moment, is the peace that applies, section four says the validity authorized by law debts incurred for payment of pensions in suppressing insurrection or rebellion shall not be questioned. using that to raise thea democrat. if you're not sure (202)748-8002. marlene in massachusetts. >> good morning to you and to the viewers watching c-span this morning. i have mixed feelings about the use of the 14th amendment to raise the debtt limit.

on one hand i think it would be problematic in the sense that it would be unprecedented and definitely challenged which i think would be the whole purpose of raising the debt limit to pay bills we've already generated. if i could say one thing briefly i think this should not even be a conversation. we ran up a tally and we just need to pay it. they should not be any condition attached. we have done this in the past once before.

we cannot do this again. i think what is going on right now is the controversy over the debt ceiling, nothing more than an attempt by the republican party to politically compromise this president and those saying it's not a big deal, this isn't a thing, i think it's dangerously naïve in my personal opinion. we've never defaulted on our debt before and i don't think it's something we as a nation we really want to even attempt to try. we are risking not only just ou' economy but the world economy.

all of the talking, all of the discussion should be shoved to the side, i do think there are legitimate arguments with respect to spending but i think it's a separate issue.e we should simply pay the bills we owe. thank you. >> next up is gary who says yes, the president should use the 14th amendment. good morning. >> forceful, ted cruz has zero credibility. while texas was going through, he went on vacationwh so no credibility and president biden should raise the debt ceiling, republicans were serious about cutting spending line by line, i believe you could cut spending and have for ten years and raise taxes that go uncollected.

he could cut 32 trillion in debt half by simply doing those two things. >> south carolina this the 2024 presidential candidate, far left fears because of yesterday, here's some of that. >> the closest thing to magic in america is a good education. today the far left has us retreating away from excellence in schools, liberals are letting labor bosses millions of kids in schools. replacing education with indoctrination. they spent covid walking kids

out of the classroom now walking kids out of their futures and in biden's america crime is televised and law enforcement in retreat. the product is ending cash fails, demonizing, demoralizing and defunding the police. i grew up in neighborhoods alongside people who ended up frustrated or in the cemetery. we needed for public safety. not less. we cannot have innocent people at risk. police getting ambushed and attacked and locked innd their homesgo when the sun goes down until the sun comes up. they are attacking every single rung of the ladder and that's why i am announcing today that i

am running for president of the united states of america. [cheering and applauding] >> senator tim scottar yesterda, a couple of comments on opening questions here on c-span. democrats want to take away second amendment, they will use the constitution anytime they can to side step the congress. there are many constitutional requirements but none instructed president to seize power from the congress and act as member. rebecca said biden can do something unilaterally, he should. republicans do notan hesitate to do unorthodox. let's look at mitch mcconnell's record. travis in west virginia. the president should not use the

14th amendment. >> for one, i don't think he can get by with it. if you would cancel all of these transgender projects and close the border we are supporting ten or 15 illegal immigrants and take covid money back and maybe we can worry about all of this. spent on immoral things that's been wasted. there's money there is the democrats would put up their projects we wouldn't be having thiswo discussion. >> what about the earlier caller who called about the military spending. how do you feel about that?en

>> we are at a time in history where we can't afford cuts in military. we need to get the transgender junk out of there, we need to get wokeism out of there but cannot afford housing the military and look around the world is happening, we need to raise their money and get the more and get real money in their. >> denver up next, danny is on the yes line. >> of course we should invoke the 14th amendment. the president should realize the republicans do not negotiate. they are liars and cheats. every time trump says responsible for the supreme court, they still the supreme court and not the party that

honors the work. right now they are doing hostage negotiations holding them hostage and not right. >> is becoming but the rules don't apply to either party anymore? >> remember what trump said and republican people have said because it was all right when trump was in office but now he's not in office. that's what they will use all the time. republican investigations that have taken place over the last ten years or waste of taxpayer money like benghazi investigation into was smeared all that time and going after the biden family and starting to be nothing there and they failed to show that.t. they cannot negotiate with the democrats and the president should not negotiate with them

at all because they proven time and again they said would not pass the supreme court, they lied about that. the supreme court justices when they come up for reviews, they get in office and change things. it's terrible. there's no rule of law anymore, trump will get away with it, committing all the crimes he did, whomever convictedwe him. >> twenty-one minutes on opening topic using the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling. if you say yes the president should do that. 748 thousand. if you're unsure 207488002.

on the capitol hill but the headline from delaware only on carpenter retired after 50 years in office modern deliver politics retired mixture in the successful politician and states history and shakeup this day back on capitol hill after the meaning of the white house beaker kevin mccarthy asked about potential revenue increase, tax increase. here's what he said. >> we been working day in and day out to getn to an agreement have been clear from day one were not going to raise taxes, we got more revenue coming in than any other time in history, only two other times in history but the problem is, we are

spending time in modern history spending problem. we should pull back. we should help people get jobs for having worked requirements, we seen time and again. we should find ways we cap do spending because the democrats have spent so much even joe manchin. there's a lot of productive ideas and we can come to common ground agreement. >> to speak on capitol hill yesterday, live coverage of the u.s. house here on this network on c-span. other coverage across the c-span network include also 10:00 a.m. this morning a look at the biden administration immigration border security policy, house judiciary subcommittee will hear from former u.s. or patrol chief rodney scott who's served during the turned a blind administration and a mother of a woman who's the victim of an

alleged ms 13 gang member. live 10:00 eastern on c-span2 and mobile apps, free mobile app c-span now and streaming on c-span.org. u.s. national security and china and subcommittee holding back live on c-span2, and c-span.org. back to calls and comments about whether the president should invoke the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit and michael is in maryland. >> is there. the question is wrong because the president does not know, amendment 14 section five, the last section says congress shall have power to enforce appropriate legislation, provisions of the article so not

a presidential thing. number two, i'm glad we have the debt limit, time to have a robust discussion about expenditures, we've got a spending problem and so many things we could cut, it's unbelievable so he doesn't have the power in second it's good to have negotiation about the debt. thanks. >> larry says yes in birmingham alabama. either. >> good morning, it is funny situation always comes to pause when republicans don't have it. they can do anything they want and justify it, they can't be trusted. they are liars, think back on their work, i like to see the president do whatever he can.

these are charges we've already made and it's stupid to go back to work. if you want to stop spending, you do it as budget, this is not the place to do it. it's not just the programming. you cut spending at budget. >> jim is on the no line. >> thomas jefferson once said politicians offering free ups with your money, 250 years ago the president doesn't have the authority to raise it but the country is dead broke.

they can't pay 1 penny of principal. we need to lose the reserve currency because that's how we get our money so we can stay on budget. it's to spend your money widely. >> your breaking up a little. thanks for your comments. john in new jersey. hi there. >> good morning. they are bad people. this is paying your time. the discussion is on the budget. when you create the budget is

when it should be discussed on spending. now the government should and must pay their bills. republicans are bade. people. we are paying for the bill undef the trump administration of the trillions of dollars the budget was increased under the donald trump administration. a republican paying gains with the president. the president spending $3 trillion out of the budget. shame of the democrats because the democrats do not revolve allies the republicans tell. >> i came jeffries yesterday with the reporters said he'd be open to the idea of freezing

spending current levels. >> as i understand it, president biden offered to freeze spending current physical here levels.rr that is a reasonable place to be. >> what i would like to see inpresident biden's budget proposal, the increase investment in the economicn well-being to protect the strengthen social security and build an economy that works for everyday americans the extreme markup republicans have projected that so what's reasonable is what president

biden put on the table and it's rejected because apparently the publicans have said we will accept nothing short of extreme default on america remember the they have different things, are you putting up a fight right now for those who might not owe anything? >> i think any proposal that offers toze free spending, it's not been put in by the left as you articulated, it is a reasonable effort to find common ground to make ten more minutes

of phone calls on opening topic. john is in virginia says he is the president should use the 14th amendment to raise the debtbt limit. >> i don't understand how the republicans -- big shots make companies pay their fair share, who would have that. starting wars and two or three times a week and at the border.

the nobody went to jail. >> no line good morning. >> they like to spend their money. spend, spend, spend. the democrats running this country, everybody is going to say hi biden. that's what they are going to do. >> not sure whether the president should. >> i don't trust either party in the last judgment at it right. this is the government that funded hitler to wall street banks and corporations. the same names j.p. morgan rothschild, rockefeller, they

can spend money murdering black and brown people for their resources the rich white people on wall street can run his government to the ground. >> the commentary of guy vincent, the headline biden is that ceiling showdown but likely resolution the rights in theth standoff, he makes a last-minute deal and bipartisan vote in congress and they will oppose it, rank-and-file will hold their noses and push it through with leaders on each side according to various details anw concessions while declaring country. the debt ceiling will be raised, in washington will collectively heads toward the next regularly scheduled fiscal cliff. ...

everybody needs to understand and remember that a lot of it is fabricated chaos saying we don't have enough money for the things we need to take care of, take care of the poor, take care of the schools, take care of the children. if we hadar taxes on the wealthiest part of america, there would be plenty of mighty to afford to be able to pay for all the things we have, but it's all a shell game way they keep over and over again making it ac crisis when they don't have enough money. if you would go get the money from the wealthiest americans who are not paying their fair share, it would be plenty of money to support everybody. if i'm paying a certain percentage of my wages to taxes, there is no reason why these

guys are not paying the same percentage. if you did that you would have plenty of money. you would not be an a debt crisis because there's enough money to take of the things we're supposed to take care of. that's all i have to say. >> this is from insider late lae last week@thebusinessinsider.com. their headline passing the gop debt ceiling bill would be equally disastrous as default. bernie sander says he's joined ten of his democratic colleagues in urging the president to bypass congress and permanently solvey the crisis writing and a letter urging the president use the 14th amendment quote with the validity of the public that of the united states shall not be questioned. that letter from those senators to the president late last week. a few more calls. next to huntington indiana mike is on the not shoreline. >> caller: i think what he

ought to do is tell congress and senate they have four years to balance the budget. and if they don't they lose half their pay, gross pay, and everything, no retirement, no nothing. that way they get something done. >> host: so forced them in doing it that way ranking member yep thank you, mr. chairman we will go to iselin new jersey next. james on the yes line. >> caller: i'm just calling to say that even if president biden were to agree to what the republicans asfoor, mccarthy still couldn't get it to the house. i wish joe biden witches go ahead and do what needs to do, use of the 14th amendment and let's move the country on. good day.and have a

>> host: from the "wall street journal," there headline underneath the picture of the colorado river behind hoover dam heading to lake mead. this is a headline, states agreed to colorado river cuts. states that use colorado river water agreed to cuts requested by the federal government to help keep two of the main reservoirs late meet and lake powell from falling too critically low levels. california, arizona and the beta would voluntarily cut the use of water from the west most importantat river by at least 3 million acre-feet by 2026 including 1.5 million next year. an acre foot is not a typical family use, a f four uses any, y year. the journal writes the cuts are not expected a severe impacts on farms or cities but with incrementally add intimately to the voluntary reductions in place. you can read that. just to let you know as well on

this program will have a further segment on that in the coming days here ons "washington journal." next up is john who was on the no line. john in north carolina go ahead. >> caller: yes. i don't think it should go, if, if he had a bill to disney could you say i'm going to spend 10 trillion next year or 50 trillion. and no way that, and if he is the money i'd like to somebody say how much it's costing all these illegals per day that we are feeding, clothing, giving them a place to stay, all that stuff. but you don't hear that nowhere. i don't know if someone knows the answer but i would sure like toho hear it. >> host: to ohio next and sandy is on the not shoreline. >> caller: yes, thanks a lot for taking the call. some people are forgetting, back

to when we got the stimulus money that was all right. emily got the cost-of-living raise, okay, so now they're saying we spent too much money so i don't quite get it. if we were close to defaulting and all that come in debt, why did they give us all that? and then now threaten to take it away. they have already threaten some of my healthcare recently this past week, because we gave you too much so now you have to give it back or it will take this away and that away. i don't quite get it all. i just, maybe they shouldn't have gave us that. don't they look ahead like we have to do sometimes? >> host:ur appreciate your opinion. welcome the conversation this first hour on the debt ceilingin focusing on the 14th amendment. and the u.s. has come into session in under half an hour.

we'll have live coverage here on c-span. in between now and then it is your turn open form a chance for you to wait an on news items that you are following. the lines are saying most of the morning, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans, and for independent and all others,, 202-748-8002. we'll get to your calls momentarily. just leading office hours more about the negotiations between the president and speaker kevin mccarthy. the debt talks are about to test mccarthy sold onhi his party. speaker kevin mccarthy negotiation with president joe biden are serving and other purpose besides reaching a debt deal. as his second job interview with conservatives as the talks lurched closer to the trace d departments default deadline, it should not be forgotten of mccarthy speakership is still on the line with any single disgruntled member and power to

force a vote on ousting him. the california republican must ensure his right flank can swallow any guilty strikes with the white house or a lease hold its nose while voting no. we heard from congressman mccormick earlier from georgia, the conference, republican conference meeting this morning perhaps at this p hour about the status of negotiations between the white house and the speaker. let's go to her first call you in open form. robert is inon tennessee on the democrat's line. robert, make sure you meet your volume and go ahead with your comment. >> caller: okay. my comment, what my comment is is what is the new world order x. >> host: what is the new world order? >> caller: that's my question. >> host: what do you think it is? >> caller: i don't know what it is. but but i hear it a lot and ts

what i ask. >> host: appreciate that. david on the republican line good morning. , good morning, bill, and "goodm morning america." ever since roe v. wade was overturned last year, the argument has been how many weeks should aee woman while pregnant was determined to have an abortion? the other argument is whether being pro-life is a winning political argument? i will take the first one first the matter of weeks should be as low as we can't legislate of the because this is ali human life. the longer you wait the more painful and gruesome the abortion is for the mother and child. secondly, is that a political winner? which i would ask with slavery a political winner in the 1800s? both slave and abortion to deny the human rights of the person. maybe because lincoln got elected on the atlas labour party, maybe it was popular. maybe it wasn't. did start a civil war but today abortion is not likely to start a civil war. republicans want to know can i

get elected on a pro-life platform? my answer is simply who cares? if you don't stand for human life you don't deserve to be reelected anywhere. if you don't get reelected but don't defend the rights of the baby you don't deserve to surface you are an empty vessel or give no praise. some issues have not inherently political qualities but we do need laws. the baby in the womb just like the slaves was are human beings and are more important than winning elections. every election can just be about getting elected. should be a collective when you stand for the week to have no voice? if not, why not? >> host: to wane in boston. good morning. independent line. >> caller: good morning. i think the recent actions and you hear the term bowing at the altar of climate change by the democrats, i use the term

irreparably insane. theys pretend it's a 500-pound person that wants to lose weight. advocating all their arms and legs to do it. where it took us 100 plus years with the industrial revolution to get to this point. now they want to ban fossil fuels.ss there are 6000 products that we use from fossil fuels we could never live without them. we would be put back in the stone age.to last week senator markey from massachusetts wants to ban the exports of fossil fuels. so what is that doing to the country, the taxax base? i mean there is a one fossil fuelsis by the democrats and there's no way we can do this. it will take decades to get to where they want toto do it. >> host: it is open for me. we go to john in hubbard ohio on

the independent line. john, you are on the air. >> caller: okay thanks. i'm just calling. i know the debt ceiling fight is taking precedent right now, but how can we have any hope when there is an issue with a congresswoman from las vegas is trying to get the slots act passed. ohio recently legalized gambling. every time you hit a jackpot or $1200, the machine stops, you have to sign a piece of paper. you have to claim it at tax time. in order to claim gambling losses you must itemize, which many people can't do. but anyways, this lady been trying to get this act passed very simple, just adjust the 1200 number for inflation. it was established in 1979.

very simple to seeso the reasong here, but they can't do it. they can't get it done. along the same lines is social security. the threshold for social security to be taxable. has been raised since they were established i believe back in the 1980s were somewhere around there. visit up a lot of seniors, more seniors than ever are paying taxes on t their social securit. >> host: the name of that legislation, the first what about slot machines, about their winnings off that is called slots act? >> caller: i believe that's what it's called. i could be off a little bit but that lady, this is also come this role that they have in place is also a big headache for people running casinos. because you people who want to gamble and the machine shuts down and and attendant has to come. >> host: how recently did legalized gambling open up in

ohio? >> caller: it just opened up, well, they had what, they have had the ohio law for years. now we have legalized sports betting just at the start of issue with legalized sports betting, the same rules apply there. so i'm just kind of making a point here. i know, here's the thing that congressmen and senators will say, oh, we have more important things to do right now than deal with those little issues. if you can't take care of little problems come how can you take care of anything? >> host: thanks for the insight. it is open form and a chance to weigh in on issues, we haven't talked about that this morning but the things you're falling in the news at 202-748-8000, the life for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. and for independence and others, 202-748-8002. we are here until 10:00 eastern when the u.s. house comes in our

live coverage continues elsewhere on the c-span networks as well including at 10:00 on c-span2 it is a hearing about border security, immigration policy. one of those testifying former u.s. border patrol chief rodney scott. that's live at ten on c-span2, also on a mobile app c-span now and c-span.org. in afternoon on c-span2 it's a hearing on u.s. national security and relations with china, against two p.m. eastern, c-span2, c-span.org and the mobile app. brian ohio is next up. it's a bill on the democrat's line. go ahead. >> caller: i would like to talk about the marine and the smoking incident. i mean, in my opinion i think he did what he had to do. how many arrests is enough? 30, 40? the thing is he did know any of this when that happened. but my point is the

responsibility of the media and people come in particular what i can think of is al sharpton saying he's guilty of murder. if you go out and get in a car accident and kill somebody, it's not murder. he did not go out and intentionally want to kill anybody and the fact that young man died is very tragic but it was not murder. >> host: his reporting from new york. a couple election stories first on 2022, the "new york post" their headline associated press story actually judge dismisses kari lake filed a claim in election loss for governor. the right the judge and monday late monday dismissed the only remaining big claim in republican kerryic likes challee of her loss last year and lashes race for arizona governor affirming the election of democrat katie hobbs. another election story i want to read election related story i want to point out to you is in

the headline tucker carlson to attorney as a blunt response to 2020s presidential speculation. a lawyer for tucker carlson fired off a legal warning twitter political action committee raising money for what it claims as an effort to quote draft the former fox news host and sorry about that. mr. carlson will not run for president in 2024th in any circumstances. the attorney wrote in a letter to the pack cited both by the hill and media. newark, new jersey, is next. james on the democrat's line. welcome. >> caller: yes hi. simple solution about this debt problem. which is this, biden gather up tort money and pick on it, which is a bummer. he took --

[inaudible] not did nothing. now on the other hand, -- [inaudible] >> host: onto laverne tennessee. it is nick, independent line in open form. go ahead. >> caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i have just a very simple statement to make and once we get the answer it should resolve the issue. it's on abortion. it's real simple. who owns the egg? that's all i got here thanks again. >> host: florida, john an independent scholar calling in. go ahead. >> caller: my appreciation for your -- on the issues with theil debt ceiling, my concern is it will have on a position of the global stage with china pushing for a different currency and undermining the u.s. currency

being far as underwritten by other countries. this will give them a giant voice if we do default on our loans, and that's very concerning that we will do so. on energy policy or anything else can we just won't have much weight, so that's the crux of my question. thanks. >> host: texas, bob is on the republican line open forum here in "washington journal." bob, go ahead. >> caller: good morning to you had a caller earlier asking about with the new world order is. i just wanted to refer the gentleman from tennessee to wikipedia, his iphone, or to a computer and just type in the phrase new world order. it will come back explain it as a conspiracy theory, interestingly enough, emerging secret plan. i don't know a secret is for the gentleman for tennessee. goes back as far as president h.

w. bush, george h. w., who mentioned it and started this hubbub in 1989 i think at the end of his first term where he referenced an emerging new world order, which was part of his great game plan. there were never any details to come, but it's turned into i suppose a conspiracy theory. >> host: you are a brave man for typing new world order into your phone browser there aren't you worried will beie bombarded with all kinds of different shall we say ads and links for the next couple of days? >> caller: i've got pretty good filters on my system. also, i have a technical question if you would indulge me. >> host: i hope i can give you a tactile answer, or at least a straight answer. go ahead. >> caller: , hd television you guys come in the letterbox

format. do you know why? >> host: i don't come i don't know why. above my pay grade from a technical standpoint i'm not sure but i'm just glad we come through on your cable system. thanks for calling this morning. headline here from the post courier in south carolina. it is tim scott makes gop presidential bid official in hometown announcement in north charleston. here's a look at some of yesterdays event. >> i have lived that the closest thing to magic in american is a good education. but today the far left has as retreating away from excellent in schools, extreme liberals are letting big labor bosses trapped millions of kids in failing schools. they are replacing education withth indoctrination. they spent covid locking kids

out of the classroom and now they are locking kids out of their futures. in biden's america, crime is on the rise and law enforcement is in retreat. the far left is ending cash males, , demonizing, demoralizig and defunding the police. i grew up in neighborhoods alongside people who ended up incarcerated or in the seminary, cemetery. not seminary, but we need more public safety, not less. we cannot have innocent people at risk, police officers getting ambushed at the tack, and seniors locked in their home the sun goes down until the sun comes up. joe biden and the radical left are attacking every single rung of the ladder that helped me climb. and