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internet. >> media come along these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. >> good evening i am tony clark from the carter library i'm really glad you're all here. i think this is going to be a fascinating evening. because it kind of tells why we are in politics in libya right now. r when i was growing up folk music was a big deal. there is a group called the chad mitchell trio that had a song called the jon birx society with lyrics like if mommy is a commie you have got to turn her in. it was really a funny funny ansong. they would sing things fighting

for the right to fight the right fight for the right. sometime you should google chad mitchell trio in the jon birx society song the billboards along the time that the highways would say impeach a supreme court justice earl warren or get the u.s. out of the un. they were very well known by the 60s by the end of vietnam war you did not hear much about them. you will hear tonight their influence carried much further. the influence did not disappear. matthew dallek is a graduate school of management at george washington university. he is a political historian. he looks at social crisis, political transformation, liberalism and its critics and tonight's topic the evolution of

modern conservative movement. he has authored or co-authored four books present frequent commentator on the news media about politics, history and public affairs. he is also a former speechwriter for former house minority leader richard gebhart. we wanted someone to talk to mathew about his book we cannot have it had anyone better than joseph crespino he is the jimmy carter professor of history at emory university. is it expert in political and cultural history of the 20th century. joe has written -- mckee is published three books including one that he was here to speak about atticus finch the biography of harper lee her father in the making of american icon. please join me in welcoming joe

and matthew. [applause] pics thank you tony. it's always so much fun to be the carter library print thank you for coming out tonight to ask questions about this really exciting timely deplete research and wonderful book. and matt, welcome to georgia it's great to have you here this week it so appropriate to have you here this week. as i was reading your book this week in preparation for tonighta i was also writing an op-ed in the "new york times" this week. i don't assume you saw the touch of a hot mess of the georgia republican party. it was amazing to read this article it's all about how they trump supporters are in such conflict with the governor. and there's real tense between the conservative and the

ultraconservative and low and behold your book begins with the story and the california republican party , 61 or 1962 with there is a longtime republican party activists who is decrying the rise of the crane tracy jon birchers who are ruining the republican party and party andturning it into hot me. so tell us to the jon birx society was.en that seems to be so similar what are the similarities? rex first voted to thank you joe for doing this with me it's wonderful to be here with you. i want to think tony and the carter library as well for have any. it is really an honor to be here. joe was returning to patriciawh who was a loyalist to richard nixon who is not exactly a liberal.

i was running for a local seat. this gives you a flavor of the birx society. a local seat at up southern california members of the society did not see her as being conservative enough she's not a true believer. they ran against her. and they defeated her. she describes this amazing oral history what it was like to go up against them. just to give you a a couple quos this are calling up everybody in her district describing her as quote a socialist, a commie and a pinko. she called them an enormously destructive force she said quoth quotethey were haters to be on anything i have ever seen in my life. she had a visceral loathing for

thisis group. that made me more intrigued. what was she reacting to question the birch society just to back up was named after evangelistic term army intelligence officer was murdered or killed after world war ii by communist forces. from macon georgia. and his parents were very supportive at least initially have a lending his name to this organization. the founder wrote a book a short biography of john birch in the 1950s. alleging the u.s. government crime was not necessarily that u.s. government had conspired to conceal the murder as part of the communist plot. he was kind of seen as a martyr

and the first victim of world war iii. the brief background is the start in december of 58 a group of 12 mostly a wealthy industrialist meeting in a hush-hush meeting in indianapolis. they decide to form a group and the purpose was to operate outside of the two-party system. to try to educate the party about the internal communist threat. i because in a way they looked at the republican party which was s probably the national natural home they thought the party was part of the left it was part of the communist movement essentially and it was hopeless. the way to push back is to teach people about the nature of the threat to the grassrootsob mobilization and education shocked people into a realization. anyway they started to form

chapters that had a home chapter based in belmont, massachusetts they operated 20 person chapters one to hit the 20 person cap you had to form a new chapter of the chapters are pretty secretive. they had nondescript numbers or letters atse random xq yz. they were not supposed to communicate with one another they were supposed to be somewhat distinct entities that would communicate with the home office but not with each other. robert welch a former candy maker the founder, he wrote a ton of stuff including monthly bulletins and american opinion magazine he would essentially give chapters marching orders they didn't nestle go out and follow every word of his prescription but he suggested things k like take and go over o your local pta take over your

school board. see what kind of books are being offered in the library. they are not american's book if they are socialistic tracks you need to pressure the library to put inse american texture. set up a billboard as tony alluded to earlier. erect a billboard to support the impeach or award campaign. this action a character in myh book i'm not sure if i have my name he is a birch member he funded i believe it's in georgia probably 20 billboards out of his own pocket. really one of the insights from the birch perspective, this was a group that empowered members. it enabled them to actually do something to take the fight to this alleged communist conspiracy in their communities. so they could kind of filter

this conspiratorial brand ofth anti-communism to the perceived needs of their localities. and they argued that was a real insight they had. i quote one person it's an answer to every prayer. what he meant by that as it allows us to act. we are not just talking about how bad things are in the country, we can do something about it. that was a longish explanation but that gives you an overview. i argue the birchers help to forge a political tradition on the far right they bequeath the subsequent generation of style but ideas isolationism, conspiracy theory more violent antiestablishment motive of

politics., in the ideas are picked up by subsequent generations. i felt like a perfect kind of line from one to the other but this tradition challenged a lot of the mainstream conservatives, often republican thought always people like patricia hicks we talked about in here or we could argue in the contemporary context the current governor gor secretive state of georgia. and see them as much at times as enemy as their ally. we can see the tensions, the divisions within this broad conservative coalition or as the mainstream conservatives they are electorally successful but much more pragmatic. back in the day of the 1960s and 70s they are pretty effective there pretty effective

pushing the birchers and their supporters to the edges. not allowing them to engulf their party and to leave the party. some of the reasons with the party was stronger they had more carrots then sticks back of it is different country we had the cold war which was constraining in some ways. but the biggest difference i would say today is for a lot of reasons some of which we can get into think the successors to the birch society the far right tradition is not mainstream, pretty close to the mainstream of conservatism. the idea of the birch society a lot of people have seen as a stunning comeback. so that piece you reference a resignation because of the incredible tensions that feel

familiar albeit with different setting in different circumstances. >> it is an interesting moment. your first book was about conservative politics, conservative history the governorship of ronald reagan and critical moment in his rise to national prominence. i think one of things you recognize me do this work professionally as the president is always shaping our understanding of the past. for you and, we've been working on the history of conservatism for 20 years. a lot of the stuff that was written 20 yearsf ago was trying to take conservative ideas seriously to try to understand how conservatism came to power from the 1960s to the 1990s. it was about the major establishment figures.

these figures like the john birch society 13 -- now sang the sayingthe past and things were differently. is it right to say the present moment american politics since 2016 makes you think differently about, the history of conservatism? >> absolutely. we are human and being being influenced bywhat's happe. a lot of historians and what they see is a transformation in the conservative movement. where it is and where the ideas come from. one of the things i wanted to do in this book is take what i describe as far right ideas take them seriously take this massive mobilization can take that seriously.

not just in recent years but also at the time but it's really interesting is the birchers were often characterized in many respects they were either mocked or they were described as a neofascist. people are going to start a civil war. they said the enemy to engage in civil war. they were seen as little old ladies and tennis shoes as well as one of the famous phrases had it. they're kind of nuts. the other song that was popular in the 1960s about the birchers are one of the others with the bob dylan song john birch a paranoid blues. so paranoia became a shorthand

for the birchers is a famous scene doctor strangelove and the general is raving about bodily fluids in the communist conspiracy, that's a spoof on the birch society. well look, with all the conspiracy theories i have a chart which i show the birch document from the mid 60s. they are hard to pin down the conspiracies. birchers has a wedge for socialized medicine. and sometimes they said this was basically a government step to

control us to tell you what to put in your body. another timepl there were hints that was a communist plot which is what doctor strangelove. but basically it's of a piece us not really a federal thing but it's a heavy hand of a federal bureaucracy that is basically doing the commonest workforce was beingco seen as part of the communist conspiracy. someone toli talk more about conspiratorial political movement. he might have some questions about that. one of things that is important for people to realize it was a secret organization. and maybe explain why they were so intent on maintaining secrecy? and how were you able to research them they were so

jealous about guarding information? >> i think the founder on some of the others argued early on they wanted to keep ahe low profile because they didn't own the communist to know they existed because the conception of themselves was the best, strongest, most aggressive anti-communist group in the united states. the thinking was once the communist learn about us they are going to go to town and try to destroy us. i gives you an insight into the mentality the us against them. consult welch, when he had this firstt meeting he told his friends and invited 17 people said i do not want you all staying at the same hotel if anyone asks you you say you are here on business in indianapolis. we don't want people to get wind of what we are up too.

they were pretty successful for the first two years at keeping under wraps or as a series of news articles in 1960 then they exploded in early 61 became what we call a feeding frenzy. they were everywhere. and at that point they said the communist have basically come onto us including in the news media. they are trying to take us out. so that's part of the attack. i was able to research it? so the birch society has some papers that are at brown university. set up headquarters used to be in belmont, massachusetts. the story is they picked up and moved to appleton, wisconsin dumped all the papers into a dumpster.

someone found these papers and then donated them to brown. these papers are nows organized but they are not like the papers in the carter library of course because there are big holes in it. these were taken out of a dumpster. you don't really know what you're going to get in i did not go through every single paper. but there are interesting messages frome members who were writing into headquarters and those are actually theus best. you're getting anecdotal but itr really great feel but members from all around the country are thinking and what is moving them. that is a window. but what is amazing is there are so many collections i was overwhelmed. the anti-defamation league have

a chapter on the anti-defamation league they waged quite an effective spy campaign against the birch society infiltrated the far rights they have about 20 boxes at the american jewish historical society in new york city. they have papers on the birchers those are great not just to look at how liberals were treating and how they're trying to undermine them, they're also great window into the birchers themselves. you haveut detailed about meetis or individuals or speakers that birchers gave. the library of congress has a ton of stuff surprisinglyro related to the birch society. you can find letters from fred coke the patriarch of the coke family who was one of the original birch founders. the letters from him about how great the birch society is. you can go around the country.

bill grady was one of his right hand people. they both came out of the national association of manufacturers. g he's got great papers in wisconsin. he was a wisconsin industrialist. his papers are really revealing as well. you kind of keep going and pretty soon you have more archives and you can actually go through. >> one of things to talk about or you trace over the course of the book is the division between main street of conservatism and what you call's ultraconservatives for the john brooks society is ultraconservative. the story traditionallyod is, it is this. in conservative history you have mainstream like national review by william f buckley junior that starts in 1955. and buckley who represents a

more intellectual wing of the party is able to -- buckley in certain people and the conservative movement are able to police the boundaries. they are able to say no, we are going to draw a line here. robert welch on his influence and very goldwater does this as well. how did they do that? or did they do it? >> one of the things i argue is that it's not totally ate meth but no not one person had the ability to be the gatekeeper. birchers there are 60 to 100,000 of them a lot of them were very wealthy. and buckley as an example had a lot of ties to a lot of birch leaders. and some of his readers were either in the society they

weren't members but they weree supportive of it. and so it was a very hard to disentangle sub buckley wrote a couple editorials in the early 60s denouncing the conspiracy theories. should argued that eisenhower is a commie and buckley said that is too far. and later in 65 especially as birchers got more radical on the vietnam war buckley did a bigger thing against them. he denounced them. but when he ran for mayor of new york city in 1965, even though a lot were angry atst him he still had some who supported his mayor run. so it was very hard. what i was interested in though was the mainstream of the goldwater types they both wooed theth birchers they try to bring them into the fold at time.

they wanted the money, the votes, the energy, i think they understood elect orally especially after goldwater lost in 64 and the landslide were he famously declared extremism in defense of old liberty which is seen as a sock to the birch society and other radical groups, the light in 1964 acceptance speech for.r. >> in san francisco. famous line it thrilled a lot too. >> moderation is this sense of virtue -- moderation in pursuit of justice, extremism moderation in pursuit of justice. something along those lines. quick something like that anyway. we are summarizing that.

so goldwater, did not have a lot of birchers who liked him there were efforts he made in late 64 and after words to try to distanceth himself from the birchers and it pissed off some of them very much so in some accused him of toeing the communist line. what i was interested in though it was trying to get at some of the tensions between again joe as you put it the ultras and the more mainstream types. i don't think anyone ever pushed out the whole they were part of the conservative coalition but i also argue they were not dominant for the most part. and in fact in the story the birch society as an organization they fade in the late 60s early 70s. people are not talking that much about them.

i'm just as a name. so when he is appointed in 71 or 72 to the supreme court there is a story. it is a rumor he was a john bircher in arizona. he has to issue a statement i never wasr and i am never not w a member of the john birch society. society. even ted kennedy at one point had to say this was a smear against him. so the birchers as a society or were fairly well contained for a lot of o reasons. i think the idea has lived on. other groups picked up the idea. kind of cap the presidential candidate like pat buchanan.

they adopted another of ideas that wereth very familiar to the society. the state randomis aside the property and ron paul and split it. they were part of the coalition getting at thenk tensions was a really interesting way to think about the conservative coalition. >> give us a little sense of the organizations born of 58. prevention ends and 70, 74. sketch out that. one of the high water? where did they go away in

appleton wisconsin as an organization they have a website that shows the myths and facts people try to dispel myths about themselves. as early 70s are a shadow of their former self. they have a lot of high watermarks or depending upon your perspective low watermarks. [laughter] that was a pretty big deal and it was shocking in the context of the early 1960s for this group to put uprd billboards tos impeach seen by many americans is one of the great justices of lithe 20th century. and a former republican governor of california. seen as somewhat as an upright member of the establishment. deeply american and they want to toimpeach him which had not been

done. it was not talked about in the way it is today. i argued the birchers again and again is they won by losing. we realize we are not x are going to impeach earl warren. were not going to go through e congress. but by the time we are done the enemy will know we are there. the enemy will know we are there. one of the ideas is to put these ideas into the bloodstream of thee politics to get attention, to draw members and energy behind theseie things. and so they had is a series could be a high or low watermark, that was one support the local police was a big movement. and in important movement a lot of police officer support of that movement as well we are

defending the police against basically the communist orchestrated riots in the cities.or and they had a decent amount of support for that it's one of the areas there was some real overlap had ronald reagan in the mid-sixties talk about law and order. pro- blue. >> is on the paralyzed to black lives matter, blue lives matter. this is a predecessor precooked support your local police was a real thing and in the magazine they would publish photographs of police officers who were beaten in badly bludgeoned by supposedly communist rioters. really visceral stuff. so they had a series when eisenhower's going to meet with khrushchev the soviet premier

they launched a case against entanglement. many thousands of postcards to members of congress. they ran a newspaper ads. one of the interesting moments here in the book i think for me was after john f. kennedy assassination in dallas, dallas is a hot bed and set initially there were some birchers who thought another birchers did killed kennedy and i quote someone in here saying it's the end of the birch society is someone up on the far right turns out it wasn't. how they were able to weaponize the assassination. and use it to mobilize basically evidence to be look we were actually on to something a communist killed kennedy. we were the ones saying

nevermind they called kennedy a communist to begin with but why economies are going to kill another communist but whoever let logic get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. they put ads in papers, a lot of their leaders spun various conspiracy theories. the theories are wild but you can see at least some people responding to them. there is actually a one guy and he goes too far. he spends a crazy theory that government officials were rehearsing kennedy's f funeral a week before he was assassinated. the speech was called marksmanship in dallas. what i found were letters from birch members in arizona and

california saying it's one of the founders and the spokesperson saying this guy, oliver is making a stink. he is so over-the-top is going to take 10 years for us to recover from this injury he has inflicted on us. but you see a lot of other theories coming up and vocalizes a lot of their supporters. so they were a series of ways they did not necessarily when you cannot point to something and say they achieved a legislative victory. cookson going to ask an impossible question i want to give me a short answer. i want you also ask questions and got a lot more questions. i'm going to reserve restrict myself to this one. and that is this, what is it for

political thinking i think about her current political moment we tend to associate it with the transformation of social media that have given voice to these pockets of bizarre ideas and now people can connect through social media in these communities of conspiratorial thought feed on eachr. other. and so it's kind of a product of eight technological moment. but do you see the same thing happening in the 1960s i wonder what was the soldier or cultural or technological conditions? >> it's a great a question i dot have a great answer. i don't think. technology is sufficienton though. i do not think twitter is enough. in part because i was immersed there's a lot of different conspiracy theories in the 50s

and 60s. i do think there are ways in which particular moments in particular developments. social and historical developments can feed into pre-conspiracy theories have always existed. the question w is why are they salient in some moments? one reason robert welch and a lot of his other supporters look at the republican party they saw eisenhower as basically a communist they saw two of their hearers joe mccarthy and bob taft in western senators who have been basically pushed out and deprived of the nomination robert will went taft watch lost heti called it the dirtiest deal in american political history. so they saw a two-party system

they thought was a plot to this communist conspiracy. succumbing to the new deal. succumbing to internationalism to the international order to progressive ideas. and so again that is just one example. that was very powerful i think for a lot of the birch followers. there was no americanness within the political system were they could go and have their ideas heard and taken seriously and be on top. the other thing as well of course is the cold war. historians have a lot of different arguments about this, right? not want to get to intuit but sure the government did commit conspiracies. there were actual conspiracies.

the adl was infiltrated in the birch society for the birch society was the linein about evn paranoids have enemies, there were actual conspiracies that existed. i think as a historian who has argued they are embedded into the conspiracy theories. i do think conspiracy theorists have ant way to logging onto certain events like 911, or the 2020 election or eisenhower's dominance in the republican party that seems so unjust to some. and soey inexplicable they empor conspiracy theorists than today they are supercharged by twitter and other things. i think that is one thought. >> are so many things that are echoes of today and give insights. i hope everyone will go buy a

copy by two copies and give to your friends. it is a fantastic read congratulations. >> thank you. i want to open it up to questions from those of you whom i went to ask questions. none on quick search on what william f buckley and the birchers being on the opposite side but what about vietnam? how did birchers respond to vietnam? the birchers were supportive of pows getting soldiers back. they made an issue of that. but on the whole day it looked at the u.s. government. not just the u.s. government but american allies.

these are essentially communistic governments. as regents and is not winning in vietnam is because it is being held back by her own government. that was part of the plan. that was the official line. and so and away they looked at the vietnam war look at the government is wanting to lose their view was of the conflict. the didn't blame it conspiracy in the u.s. government for causing our defeat.

a lot of minded movement today we can see that the examples of where you mention coco being part of the society was also principal of the funders for the tea party, which in turn he also funded members whatever that little on youtube is. do you think there's evidence international politics? i looked into a lot of things like this.

that are now being made or any onee of these fascist parties. there is a lot of echoes from how the fascist movements were organized in argentina and indonesia. and in south korea. there's even examples before the john birch society. her mind just draws a blank i apologize. it was founded by right wing industrialists. i am curious to think if you had any connections or if you found any connections between those? what's it's really interestingng question. the bit of a hole in my book i thought i would find more international connections. i'm more member of the birchers who are overseas i really found only a handful.

what explains that? the birch leaders did identify with some authoritarian may be allies in the u.s. taiwan, or south korea. they saw a strong. and so there was i think some support some sympathy for that there is seen as true anti-communist. i would say one difference between then and now is now there's much more international cautiousness from the smoke was on the far right pre-the groups you are describing the domestic ones there is ate real international presence and awareness. they don't all meet up at a confab or anything.

but steve bannon for example is got over too europe. the five-star movement in italy? poor and hungry and tucker carlson the organization of the republican party. i don't think that level of international consciousness existed in the 60s. i think one reason is birchers viewed themselves as an americanness movement they look that u.s. allies in the government is communist dominated. the official word was u.s. with 60 or 70 or 80% communist already. they had a very nationalistic and also they did not want. was politics and prose in d.c.

the birch society was very anti- interventionist. they did not want the u.s. they reputed in nato per the thought the un was a communist dominated institution.a they were very concerned about s loss of american sovereignty. in that sense they were retrenching. and that way may be a more and nationalistic movement as opposed to today which i do think is more international and its consciousness. >> a long tradition of isolationist. that was specific to the right. >> the 1930s, right? that's a good question. >> question right here? >> in five wrong to remember the

birch society's anti- immigrant, racist connected and did contribute to the downfall? the second part of the question would be would that be a way to expose conspiracy theories today to maybe get some of that out of the american politics? >> we did not really touch on them. sovereignty was a big issue. is not a major birch issue. but race of course was. as more explicit racism the birchers insisted we accept members of any creed race, religion were tolerant or not

bigoted. a couple of things. one is they put up billboards all over. i think especially in the south of martin luther king. under they would say martin lutherer king a communist traing school for it is really a school for labor -- for labor organizing. they branded and where the african-american spokespeople for the birch society, former fbi agent did a sweet entitled xa civil rights movement directed by theso kremlin. so essentially to me it echoes the charge barack obama was not born in the united states. take what you want with the

conspiracy. this idea of the civil rights era that a movementwn for organc home growing movement for racial equality and social justice, that was a movement imported from the kremlin. it was to the u.s. and so that is a explicit racism. there is a lot of racists and other movement. or the movement as an ally. it's a lot of evidence in the o book for that. i was not going into the book thinking i would find that much. one of his top aides said to wallace at one point can pick a moderate vice president we

already have that kkk we had the citizens council we've got the john birchers. this will be a great pic of moderate you work once on the street the moderate work the other side. i was kind of lumping them. he tried to pick a moderate and the birchers said no. there was a lot of in the last thing i will say about this is the birch society did at times try to police their own it's really interesting. for example there is a letter from a member clearly anti-semitic. going on this rant about the jewish conspiracy the root of evil is jews. and then birchers headquarters

as this anti-semitic or what? someone else writes he is a wild man drop it they had a file for anti-semitism. so the there were some efforts butel ultimately first they did not really police a lot of them. any other questions, right here. >> some kind of surprised to hear this may be rage against eisenhower. [laughter] accepting the new deal or something like the u.s. federal government shall be 2% of the economy instead of 20? i don't know what. >> it is a puzzle. it is a paradox. what is d-day i like ike, it's this all american hero.

and the other thing is -- robert welch wrote to his friends a letter it's called the long letter any charges that eisenhower is a dedicated agent of the communists. what's interesting is other birch founders when this becomes news in the early 60s, they distance themselves from it. they say it's not official doctrine. he didn't agree in fact actually two of the birch founders, they worked in eisenhower cabot but they were eisenhower point east they were in the eisenhower administration. i document this in the book it's a huge were eisenhower says this is the man told me too appoint to the labor-management

committee? the founders especially our very mainstream they are very rich this guy grady is in particular led the ymca was the man of the year. what they say is this is peculiar to bob welch. obviously some others believed believenot everyone did in the . it does get back a couple of things one is a sense that eisenhower had destroyed or maybe even killed joe mccarthy and bob taft in these true americanness voices on the right or far right who would return america to its more isolationist, anti- new deal ways. and welch to get a sense of the rage they are talking about he wrote to birchers and said that bob taft the ohio senator, he

died from a peculiar cancer. and he may have been killed by uranium to that was implanted in theen back of his leather chair. as has been so widely rumored. which is a wilder conspiracy than eisenhower that summit gott on the senate floor, put uranium to him there that would cause cancer anyway you get my point, right? the hearers are being struck down being cut down they have been destroyed. eisenhower and eisenhower party was responsible for that. we are loose in the cold were overseas to communist and we are losing it at home. i think the rage in part stands the country was being lost. the founders with the nation's

most dynamic economy. this is a system that has made them in a sense. they are incredibly prosperous and successful. more successful than the vast majority of other americans and yet there is this rage at the direction and eisenhower for some of them at least comes up the focal point oft it. >> other questions? right here. >> you said at the beginning you started this book in part two seriously consider the arguments made or the philosophy of the john birch society. my question is do you think by giving legitimacy and taking these crazy arguments seriously you give them a legitimacy they don't deserve? >> it's a really good question.

i mean i am a historian. i am interested i guess in trying to analyze individuals or movements or ideas that i think are impactful or influential. it's not a copout it's as opposed to making a political argument or an ideological argument. also, one as a historical movement i thought it was interesting and important. i also got is interesting and important to think about how they were constrained at the time. how the far right organizations get constrained. i don't know that they die per se and that's another question i asked. i also was interested in trying to provide a lot of other people

have given answers but to try to understand the shifty character of the conservative movement and how you get from say george w. bush to donald trump? or from ronald reagan to trump or nixon, however you want to take it orr eisenhower. this was one way into that. and i guess the other thing is because i do and hopefully not a political way i can shed light on what this movement was. and as i said the birchers maintaineded at the time common sense they're not anti-semitic, they were not racist. they were not that much into conspiracy theory. i have the goods i look at thousands of documents. and so i, hope the evidence speaks for itself. and then most people can judge them. cook so add to that to having

read the book it's not that you give their ideasas legitimacy or you are taking their ideas or their conspiracy theory what you are taking seriously is the fact they were a key key constituency within conservative and right-wing policies they weren't just crazies people ignored at the time and did not think anything of it. they thought the mainstream republicans and conservatives thought a lot about them. they spent a lot of time figuring out how to get their money and their resources and theirr influence. so taking seriously where they fit within thesc broader landsce of the american rate is different from taking seriously the idea that dwight eisenhower was an agent. you don't take that seriously precook snow i do not endorse any of their ideas absolutely but you put it extremely well. and thinking about what kind of agency did they have? over, you l

debate. they had a slogan, we're not we're a republic, not a democracy. let's keep that way. they're very explicitly, you know, another you hear? yeah, you hear it today. so. well, what is behind that? you know what, is behind sort of challenges to democracy from the right and and that that, you know, again, trying to understand. well, that is a serious within this coalition. so yeah so i think we have learned a lot about kind of why we are the way we are why are politics is the way and kind of the origins of it. the book is called birchers a couple of books has copies out in the l we have copies out in the lobby for sale. i would encourage you to pick up a copy. [applause]t

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