>> this is a place where everyone has a story. this is a collections authors of the ivory of congress and this is a real pleasure to welcome all of you here today. at this time, i ask you to turn off or silence your electronic devices or cell phones. if you need to leave the room during the presentation, the doors are behind the pillars. we want to we want to notify you that this event will be recorded and your entrant to this program constitutes your consent to be filled or recorded. thank you and enjoy the program.

kevin: my name is kevin butterfield. it is my great pleasure to introduce you that today's speakers. our center is one of the sponsors we are proud to bring america's most beloved writers to this room. we want to welcome everyone joining us live on c-span. our next panel's records of survival escaping genocide and human trafficking. his new book is waiting to be arrested at night. a memoir of china's genocide.

the founder and director of resilience force. his book is titled the great escape, a true story of forced labor and immigrant dreams. he is a lecturer in princeton. our moderator writes for the washington post opinion section and is the author of prisoner, my 544 days in an iranian prison, solitary confinement, and the extraordinary efforts it took to get me out. join me in welcoming them. [applause] >> i want to thank everybody for being here today and for watching me at home. this is an extraordinary honor and privilege for me. over the last couple of weeks i have got to know him intimately

through these incredible books. these are stories of resilience, hope, tragedy, loss and so much more. what struck me is that his books lead us into worlds that we hear about superficially but really take us inside. i am an optimistic person and have been through my share of hardship. i try to think about things in a positive way. one of the themes in both books was the theme of food. there was an incredible moment in the book that stuck out for me when they are arriving in the united states and trying to pass

through customs and they have two boxes of bread that they brought with them to sustain them. the customs agent is asking what is in the box. he doesn't know how to explain what naan is. his wife said just tell them it is naan. the customs agent knows what it is. it has become internationally known as bread. in the book, there are many great scenes around food. i would like to start by talking about the comfort that food brings to you both, to the characters in your book and to the people in your communities. >> [speaking another language]

translator: as first-generation americans, food is really important in our lives. >> [speaking another language]

translator: when we first came to america, we took a lot of naan with us. if we had difficulty finding something to eat we would solve it with. it is the companion and wherever you go should take it with you. >> i arrived in the united states at the age of 20 not knowing how to boil an egg or two boil water. my cooking essence really started when i met the characters in this book.

in particular a man who lived behind a labor camp but would sneak out to meet with me. i had a plug-in of another hotel room and he would teach me to make the simplest indian dishes. they were all the things that i grew up with and the things that were mysteries as i grew up. he needed me to give them to him to smuggle into the camp where starvation was a rule. my journey with food started as i started my relationship with these extraordinary characters. i am happy to report that it only went up from there. i still cook in the characters of the book and i still get together and cook a few times per year. >> it is an incredible through

line. there are a couple of recipes in the book. i want to talk about the allure of america and the realities that people face here. in both books, it's a different experience. i think there's so much that we as americans can learn from the experience of new immigrants. i want to read a quick quote. he was telling one of his friends that he intended to travel to america with his family. his friend was in the united states and said it would be best if you didn't come to america. i didn't ask him why he said they sent he left without explaining further. i took it to mean that a weird intellectual like me could do more for our people remaining in our homeland. i still think of the contempt of

look on his face when he said this to me. i want to pull a moment from this book as well. if i can find it. where they are reminiscing about the experience of getting out of the labor camp years later. it says, one of the workers says we are americans now. why do we need to remember? it is so indicative of fast-moving country that has its own past but doesn't think about it much. i would like you to ruminate on what the mystique of america feels like from far away and the realities when people are confronted with it.

translator: [speaking another language] >> [speaking another language] translator: originally we had no plans to come to the united states. we had no desire to leave. the most we had thought was that for our daughter's future we hoped they would be able to study in the united states. >> [speaking another language]

translator: we knew that america is a great country and if we went to the united states we would be free. we knew that. >> [speaking another language] translator: we came to the united states not from our own choice. we had to come. greater than the sense of receiving freedom has been our suffering of having to leave our homeland. tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: since we have come here, our daughter is enjoying a lot of things in the united states and we are safe. back home, so many friends of ours are in prison or confinement and are unable to have any contact with us. all of this has made it difficult to fully enjoy what we would have enjoyed here. >> i think that experience of emigrating from a hostile environment where you are constantly under threat and the hope that going to a new land will change that, the harsh realities of being cut off from your communities is something i see in cubans and many other

groups. i want to say, and i will say this again and again, we hear about the genocide and the concentration camps in parts of china. you brought it to life. it's a remarkable story. i want to continue along that same theme. in the quest to really, to free the workers from india in the south, and their subsequent quest to be integrated legally into u.s. society. there was a moment where most of these men had worked in other countries before. they'd figured out how to work

the system. one of them, perplexed, said, in dubai, in bahrain, we know how to get free in america. talk about the struggle of these men who believed they were coming to the u.s. legally, completely aboveboard, made sacrifices, took on great dance only to find themselves in servitude when they arrived. >> the question of how to get free and america was really a practical one asked by an indian worker who had been brought to the united states and was held in captivity in a labor camp. he slunk out to meet with me and asked me that question, how to

get free in america. he was asking about the bureaucratic process. in bahrain there was a way to move from one employer to another, not in the united states. the story for me starts with this mysterious midnight phone call that i got. months after hurricane katrina hit the gulf coast. it was seething with cash and corruption. i was a labor organizer and a man who was too scared to tell me his name told me that he needed help. we spoke in hindi. i wondered what a man who just arrived from india was doing on the mississippi gulf coast. it turned out he was one of 500 indian workers recruited in india, from green cards and good jobs and then brought into a labor camp. there were no green cards in sight. the man who asked me that

question had paid $20,000, putting his home on the hock, selling his successful land, taking high interest loans to get to the united states. these men were being held in deb servitudet, trapped in a labor camp, asking me to trace a way out. their views on america were that they had more faith in america than most people born in the united staterica. they were from india where you bribe a cop to get through a traffic light, or bribe a judge. they thought here, a company might have enslaved them, but if they petitioned the u.s. government it would protect them. what they didn't realize at the time was that escaping from the labor camp in the style of a heist movie was the first step.

they would have to fight for three years for their freedom. it wasn't being handed to them on a platter. jason: the story takes many twists and turns. the characters on the others of the equation whom you think of his people turn out sometimes to not be inherently evil. i went to follow-up by asking about the thing on this book stop think that it is an incredible feat of reporting. you get all sides of the story through first-person accounts. you were able to personally get it. i want to talk about how you

maintained perspective. i don't want to say objectivity because it is not relevant. you don't need to be objective to write this story but you came at it with an openness that is rare. i'm thinking of parmind bardner and your relationship with him at the end of the book. explain how you talked about this with people who didn't want to talk about it. saket: thank you. that's an extraordinary complement. in writing the book, when i thought about the main characters, i thought about the ways immigrants are portrayed in the news, the way most americans understand immigrants is through stories where immigrants are the problem or they have a problem,

or they're people who need to be saved. by the same token, when i thought about the people at the center of the trafficking scheme, i thought about my initial reaction to those characters. i initially thought that they must be people so writing about them would be a study in people. i started the process of writing. this is a particularly in mint -- particularly interesting character. he was an immigration agent who was colluding with the company that was holding the immigrants in forced labor. when the workers would run away, this is the ice agent along with others who would catch them and bring them back to the labor camp. later on, he winds up in an extraordinary cover-up, he appoints himself as the lead law-enforcement officer in the

department of justice investigation of that company, their investigation of himself essentially. all of this unfolded as i was writing. i decided to try to find ladner if he was around. i found an extraordinary manuscript deep in the bowels of the library. it was a 1000 page volume of the long history of ladners, starting as an early immigrant. his family included confederate soldiers and slave captureers. he agreed to meet me on the steps of a church in mississippi, or, in library, sorry. what i wasn't ready for was to understand his role in this saga, i had to treat him like a human being. i had to be there and understand

his incentives and his motives. understand what his life was like around the time. what often happens as you meet someone else as a human being you start to have empathy toward them. an institution i have spent most of my career fighting. we ended up in an hours long summit on the steps of this library in a kind of report. we have continued our relationship. i brought him in so -- a bushel of sausages to begin the conversation. he told me this extraordinary story. as a taste, i ended up meeting h

-- i came to meet him to fight him, but i left with my own worldview expanded by him. i was returning to a different reality than i had left. jason: it is an incredible feat of reporting that would be taught in journalism classes. i want to talk about life in your home country before the incarcerations. you bring the city to life for us. oftentimes, when we think about life in an authoritarian state, especially in the parts that are further away from the capitals, be it china, russia, iran, north

korea, we think about these places where life is very orderly, organized, and controlled. there are clearlly cracks in the system. there are differences of opinion among the people in the system. there are good guys, bad guys. it's a three-dimensional place. i would like you to talk about life and the slide toward the surveillance state that it became. translator: [speaking another language]

tahir: [speaking another language] translator: i left before the mass internment's. even though there were all kind of controls and pressure, life went on. just like there is no such thing as perfect freedom there is no such thing as perfect control either. tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: even though there was surveillance all over the place, and it seeped into every aspect of life, one gets used to it. one of the most important part of being human is our ability to get used to things. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: these different kinds of control and different kinds of repression, when we spent time with our friends we would make jokes and turn them into humor. that was important way for us to deal with them and go forward in

our lives. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: we would invent all kinds of ways to deal spiritually with what was going on. we would find our own language to express what was going on. if somebody sent us to prison, we would say that they were in the hospital. if a police officer was in our home we would say we have a guest in our home. tahir: [speaking another

language] translator: this kind of repression seeped into every aspect of our lives. the only way to deal with it was to get used to it and to find ways to allow ourselves to continue day by day. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: before the mass internment's began, the repression in our country increased step-by-step. it wasn't a sudden process.

tahir: [speaking another language] translator: there are many examples but just one of them. they would come to our homes and ask questions about religious observance or whether we were following the governments policies about whether guests had come to our home. tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: for those who have not been through things like this it is difficult to imagine. in the book i try to bring this home to people with small details, by focusing on different aspects of this and how it manifests in your daily life. jason: you talked about the importance of humor. there was an early chapter about your hubris and really acknowledging -- it is a self-aware book. you didn't think that it could go this way or would go this way. in states like china, iran, other authoritarian countries, the grounding out,t he killing of humor is such an important part of the system's agenda.

to scare you into not being able to laugh, even as the things that they are doing or are forcing you to do become more comical and farcical. i'd like you to talk about that and i would like to know, the book gets increasingly fewer jokes and more serious. can you laugh again? translator: [speaking another language]

tahir: [speaking another language] it is true. in earlier chapters, humor is a big part of our lives. making jokes about everything happening around us and making jokes. it is important. [speaking another language] translator: of course, the government does not like humor and looks for all sorts of real or imagined antigovernment

messages even in poets or sonnets. if the state manages to find something or make something up, one can be in trouble. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: humor is something that makes reality in -- reality even clearer. it gives reality back to us. reality is what an oppressive government is afraid of. [applause] tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: it is true, there is more humor in earlier chapters of the books. after mass interments began, we felt humor was lost. it was even hard to imagine beautiful things like writing poetry. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: in a situation like that, we all chose silence. tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: and after we came to america, we got the you were back. josh is an old friend of ours. with him and many of our other friends here, we humor as a way to deal with it all. jason: i am glads to hear that. saket, i wanted to ask a similar question. the men in your book were facing extraordinary things. everything was backed against them. they gave up everything to be here. but the ability to continue laughing and making fun of their own circumstances seems to never fully run out except for the case of one character.

i would like to know where some of these folks are now. do you still have gatherings with them from time to time? are the memories even more funny as the years have passed? saket: while the men were trapped in the labor camps in mississippi and texas, humor and play were sort of the necessary antidotes to these extraordinary pressures that were building up. inside the labor camp, the men lived 24 people to a trailer. in a trailer park built in a toxic dump on company property behind barbed wire fences. the men were forced to eat frozen rice for months on end as

their only sustenance. they worked a credible 12 hour shifts around -- inredible 12 hour shifts around the clock in starvation. outside the labor camp in india, moneylenders were circling. these enormous pressures built up. when i met the men, they suddenly found in me an extraordinary source of comic relief. they wanted the person who helped them to be a harvard-educated attorney wearing a suit. i was a 27-year-old labor organizer who do not own a suit. they wanted someone who could litigate their case.

i was talking to them in the catechisms of labor organizing. i think it helps them to make merciless fun of me at first. [laughter] over time, they grew to trust me. particularly with my friend raj on -- rajan who was my partner. there were acts of necessary humor. the great escape itself is at the center of the book. not to give anything away but it involves a loss turkey whiskey and flavored cigars as bribes to guards. we created this extraordinary pretext of a fictitious indian wedding as the way to get 500 men out from under the labor camp, out from under the noses of the guards. rajan would call me secretly and he would say, how is the wedding

going? how is the horoscope? i would say stars are aligned which meant the department of justice would get ready to hear our complaint. there was a lot of code. wonderfully, now, we can all sit, eat, and make jokes in the freedom of america. the men escape from the labor camp. i was able to attend their citizenship ceremonies year after year. we still have thanksgiving gatherings to commemorate those dark days in the labor camps when men were starving and would dream about food. jason: do you make dao for that? saket: i now do with the thanksgivings are more extravagant than that. jason: i want to encourage folks that have questions. we have microphones. i have a couple more questions i would like to ask but we should

maybe start lining up. i hope there is many. this is a good crowd. tahir, a times we look to these countries and these situations of oppression. we think of these societies as somehow antiquated or behind. one thing that struck me was the way the chinese communist party uses technology in very sophisticated ways to track the movements of uighurs. there are scenes where you talk about the equipment and tools they use to do this. we think of technology as a sort of benefits of living in the modern world. in many ways, it feels like an enemy in your book.

has that gotten progressively worse? is there any hope that the use of technology in china could be for the benefit of people, rather than for the overall impression? --oppression? translator: [speaking another language] tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: of course, technology was invented to be useful for humanity. there are all sorts of positive effects that are advantages to us. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: in many dictatorships, notably the people's republic of china, the government is using technology to surveilled the people. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: of course, this is a really depressing reality and

also makes one think about the implement -- the implications of technology. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: the conversations and debates about the relationship between technology and morality have been going on a long time. these debates are really relevant to all of our lives. tahir: [speaking another language] translator: these are problems that need to be solved by the rule of law, whether in dictatorships or other contexts. the rule of law's the way to

deal with them. as someone who was personally and negatively affected by the misuse of tech knowledge he, i want to -- misuse of technology, i want to emphasize that point. >> i have your book but i have not read it yet. i know you are a poet and it is translated. i am not a poet but i have tried to translate poetry and it is usually for poets that have long been dead. i have to track down people who speak the language. what i learned through translation is sometimes you are missing -- or have to transcribe orientation. because language also holds context and history and relationships with things like gender or politics. going forward, is there something that maybe you felt

could not be translated from the uighur version to the english version? may be, color, an aesthetic or mood that you would encourage me or anyone reading your book to keep in mind when reading? translator: [speaking another language] tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: thank you for saying that. he says just knows uighur very well. whether it is translating poetry or translating my memoir, he is concerned with translating the text in bringing the healing out. throughout the process of writing and the translation, we talked a lot about how things may be expressed. i feel fortunate about that. between any two languages, there are some things are harder to get across and some things easier. have a running list in my mind and concepts that do not exist

in english or take more words to express in english. maybe the biggest thing for me is the uighur bird system is incredibly rich and you can put one -- after another until it gets to be 15 words. he has a real economy of words but in his poetry and prose. that is sometimes challenging to convey fully in english. you can find one word turning into five words. that is one thing i think about. you are talking about context. there are words in uyghur that i call something you would use for anyone significantly older than you. it would be rude not to use them. but we do not use these words.

in the book, there is one explanation early on in english of what these words mean, like "older brother" were" older sister" -- so after that i just put them in italics. >> you mentioned you were a labor organizer and the work you did with them was clearly black and white. what about highly skilled workers in america who are x -- are taking advantage of by companies sponsor their visas. do you think there is a parallel? saket: the approach i took in my book is it is actually not black and white or good and evil. among the workers who arrived in the labor camps, there were people who were allied with me.

there were people who allied with the company. the company had goals all over the labor camp, including workers. the great escape really rested on my ability to convince the main company bowl -- company mole, who is now a very deep and dear friend to mine, to break his ties with the company. the company fundamentally stole the story the workers believed and had no choice to believe, which was that they paid all this money to come to the united states and would get green cards which would make their servitude worth it. that turned out to be a lie but workers had to find their own way to the truth. i could only take them so far. some workers did not change their minds and fought against our campaign.

similarly, i came to look at the people at the center of the scheme as people with motivations and incentives, not purely evil. that is harder for us to accept because when people are neither good or evil, and are part of an economy of motives and incentives, it motivates all of us. we are all parts of the culture that allows immigrants to be treated the way they are treated in the united states. your point about things being a good one, at the end of the day, there is a character in the book named emmy raju who expresses longing for people who live in the united states and find it attractive. what is the world -- the word for older brother, again?

translator: [speaking another language] saket: my ears caught this word that echoed in handy. [speaking another language] it is a powerful word that exists somewhere between obligation and desperation. the way raju put it is you become a migrant because you need to leave the world you love to help them live. i think any migrants would rather stay at home and have family, community, language and culture. but you leave the ones you love to help them live. whether in the high-tech industry or anywhere else, that is a big part of why people leave. jason: thank you very much. [applause] we have time for a few more questions but if we do not get to all of them, i want to

encourage everybody to visit their book signing booths after this session. >> my question is for saket. as an organizer, i often find myself struggling between two warring ideas. that the system we are living in in the political context is inherently flawed and we should be working to dismantle or radically change it. but i also think there are ways we can work within the system to gain small victories. how do you wrestle with these two ideas in recognizing that you have to sometimes work within this inherently flawed and exploited tainted system -- exploitative system? saket: thank you for your work as an organizer and thank you for carrying on. i struggle with this myself.

i think that it is important when you are an organizer to have time to really understand the interior lives of the people you are organizing. they are not pliant and not people with a problem. they are people with sometimes more complex motivations than a simple press release, or a straight line story about why an immigrant came, or why someone needs asylum. ideally, the laws of the united states would be updated to reflect humanity and its passions and complexity. unfortunately, we are always having to shift people into decades-old rubrics. i tell is story in the book

about how i was sitting with one of the main characters and helping him fill out an application for a humanitarian visa metaphor victims of trafficking. i said, what is the most important being you need to tell them? it was, i missed the birth of my son. i left india and my pregnant wife. my son was born and i have not seen the birth of my child. i said that is really important to you but there is no visa for that. sometimes you have to fit people into constructs that are not the most important thing in their lives. it is about thinking as an organizer that you are going back and helping people update the system so the system is more humane. [applause] >> thank you. >> sean carberry.

similar, i did a lot of journalism dealing with traumatic, difficult topics. i am curious about your psychological and mental health approach to having dealt with the stories you were dealing with, seeing things, hearing things. how you compartmentalize how this experience changed you? how do you work with this aspect of absorbing a lot of things that are painful and also because a law of anger about what any sick people are going through. how do you process that aspect of the experience? saket: thank you for this question. in the book, i am a character in the book. i am writing about my 29-year-old and 30-year-old self.

this organizer did a terrible job of being kind to himself and being kind to others and connecting deeply with the complexities of trauma. all of this made for a much better character in a much better book. this character did a bad job of it. one of the things that changed me was, surprisingly, in the midst of this very intense campaign, the thing that sustained me was my friendships with these men. they were really transformative. when i met them, i was a 20 something-year-old organizer who lived in the united states for a long time. i was estranged from home, from my parents. i had not called home in months. my handy was rusty and my

connection to my origins -- my hindi was rusty and my connection to my origins was strained. the last thing i expected to meet in the old coast was people from my hometown. it helped me return home into something that can sustain all of us in a life of making change. being connected to your own home, whatever that may be for you. a hope that for those of you out there, whether you are librarians fighting public rank or, or labor organizers, that you have a way of coming home at the end of the day to connect with things that sustain you and make you -- maybe you. >> i love to log -- loved your

epilogue. i loved the whole book but i also really loved the epilogue. i have read it over and over. saket: are you talking to me? >> yes, sorry. saket: that is amazing. >> i bought your book as well. i hadn't found it before. but i thought could you expand on when we choose to remember something, we might be choosing to remember a false narrative or forget where it is in pieces. i would love to read an entire book of your expanded epilogue. saket: thank you so much. the idea for the epilogue was handed to me in conversation. when i would go back to the workers after many years and say i want to write a book about. some would say, absolutely, we

have so many stories. but some would say, as jason quoted, "we are americans now, why would we want to remember all that?" it seemed like something that would come with the american passport was the right to forget history. that is so much of what we think that america is. the right to have a fresh beginning. that that is unfounded in any history. i wanted to write an epilogue that went into the mysteries of that. thank you for reading that. >> this is a question to tahir. i wanted to ask about adapting from living in an oppressive state and the role of hiding reality as reality is the greatest threat to an oppressive

state. i was wondering, can you explain how much this is a function and role of an oppressive state to make active decisions to make things like you can still adapt to this and still live here instead of trying to escape out of the system completely? translator: [speaking another language] tahir: [speaking another language]

translator: you put your finger on something important that is at the center of it. the chinese government does not want uyghurs to know what is happening outside, does not want people to have a picture and does not want people contacting those outside. it is an important part of controlling that. because of that, many uyghurs have been punished for simply having >>, everyone for coming. i want to encourage you to buy these books and read them. ♪

book tv live coverage of the national book festival continues. you can find the entire schedule at book tv.org. we want to ask you what you are reading. we want to hear from you what book is on your bedside table or on your tablet and why it has attracted you. call the number on your screen.

please include your first name, your city, the name of the book and perhaps a reason why that book has attracted your attention. big crowds here at the national book festival. they have a whole area for love authors from different areas of the country. it book signings, book sales. in 20 minutes, the librarian of congress is rejoining us to make a special announcement. that is coming up in about 20 minutes. you probably noticed as well on the screen that there is a 25th anniversary sliver on the right side of your screen. this is book tv 25th anniversary . september 12, 1998 will be our 20 for anniversary an hour c-span bags all have 20 for the

on them as do our c-span book tv mugs. we are pleased about that. in the 25 years, we have been on their over 1300 weekends, 92,000 hours ofrogramming which is all available online. covered over 22,000 authors, 1600 events. cities that have hosted book tv events 871 it book tv over the years has been to 875 book festivals. hopefully, more to come. in the meantime, what are you reing? you n see it on the screen. weill take those calls in just a minute. first, we want to show you a little bit from last nights national book festival opening ceremony. this is david graham.

his bestseller is killers of the flower moon. his most recent book is called the wager. >> it happened in 2004 when i was newly hired as a writer at the new yorker. i was behind on my contract already. i was worried i was losing a coveted job and i called everyone for a story idea. they said why don't you make the giant squid, that would make some news. i thought it was a myth. i looked it up and sure enough, it's a real creature. it has eyes the size of a humid head, identical that can reach as far as a school bus but no one had seen one alive.

occasionally, these would float on the water. i did more digging and lo and behold, there are giant squid honors. they had dedicated their lives to being able to document one of these creatures alive. i found the most obsessed giant squid hunter of all the man in australia. he had come up with a novel scheme rather than trying to capture the big calamari as he put it [applause] [laughter] he was going to capture a baby the size of a cricket and grow it in captivity. there was a certain mad genius to this because during spawning times hypothetically there should be more babies and they should be easy to catch. so i said come down and we will

make history. i called and in my desperation i may have committed the sin of overselling a story. [laughter] i showed them maps of squid migrations and assure them we would be the first to document a baby giant squid. and i would even get them a photograph. even then, heading to new zealand was expensive but they said godspeed and sent me off. when i arrived is when i realized were amiss. the boat which i thought would be something like in? stoke turned out to be a skiff with an outboard motor. the hunter had bankrupted himself and the only crew turned out to be a graduate student who got seasick and myself who was ready to put to work. then he turned to me and he said

i should warn you there's a we bit of a cyclone coming our way. [laughter] he was not exaggerating, there was a cyclone coming our way. it was a national emergency. i said we will wait it out. he said no, apparently the giant squid only hatched during this time so we have to go now. we get in his car with the trailer and the boat and we finally get there around twilight and he starts to launch the boat. i said what are you doing, it's getting dark? he said they rise at night so we have to go it night. we set off into the water and my squid hunter will was different from a diving accident. he said color? i said it's green.

he said i'm not just half, i'm also colorblind. then he aims between these blocks. it all seems to be following through and a flash with me and all i can see in front of me is water 20 feet high. i turned behind me and all i could see was another mallet and but was going like this. he said you won't find this in new york. it was in that moment when i began to wonder if my cap was in full command of his faculties. he managed to leave us through and we put the traps into the water, they were made of coke bottles. into the water we go. i'm an observer i have to pull them out. we do this hour after hour to no avail than we do it the next night and next night.

then finally, one time at 3:00 in the morning, we pull up the traps and the graduate student looks and says i think that is your dream squid. he puts his eye to the tank and says that looks like arche. sure enough, it was only this big but i could see a big eye and its tentacles. we were really tired and exhausted and we had to transfer this thing into another tank. we were transferring into another tank and suddenly, he says where did it go? it's bloody gone. it's a complete catastrophe. he may have swore. he had a look of utter despair and i must confess do you know what i was thinking? i'm dead i'm completely dead. i promised my editors that we would come get a baby squid and

we had it and we lost it. i thought i don't have a story. i have absolute nothing. it was only after the expedition as i kind of was still wallowing in my own despair and the despair of this poor squid hunter that i realized that that was the story that this was the story about a man, a captain ahab who had devoted his whole life to capturing his whale, and he had it, and he lost it. and it was so much more interesting than this fairytale i concocted in my imagination, and it taught me something so fundamental about the nature of writing some stories and discerning the truth, that you have to keep your eyes open to the story, that you have to be careful about your blinders or your preconceptions or your biases.

you have to recognize reality sometimes before you and often the most profound truths in the deepest stories are the ones we are not even looking for. thank you so much. [applause] >> that was david graham from last nights opening ceremony of the national book festival. you can see it in its entirety on her website book to be.org. -- look to be.org. what on your reading list must mark parks i am reading raised in america. it is an affirmation of a lot of

what i'm already aware of, what i saw most interesting so far. the discussion of cultural capital. what role it plays in the progress, the development, the definite advantages that avail the youngsters as they navigate academia and living. that's what i found most interesting. i think it is a textbook, but i found it amazingly enlightening. >> what is the name of the book again? >> race in america. >> thank you for calling. what is on your reading list? >> i am reading finding me by

viola davis and it is a magnificent read. >> why? >> because she describes her life from the beginning until where she is now. i'm only halfway through the book. the issues around poverty, being hungry and racism are very prevalent in her life. it's a wonderful read and everybody should read. host: thank you for calling. ed, cleveland ohio is on your reading list? caller: [indiscernible] the revolutionary a biography of samuel adams it takes place in

the 1760's. it shows i believe a disconnect of those in authority with power who -- and their interaction with the people they serve. the people he put in power and place they seem to be in a disconnect to the people with similar items, the people of boston. she seems to also recognize the patriots here in america. they weren't necessarily the most nicest people you would meet. they said if you disagreed with them, they made quite clear that you weren't one of them. my second book is back to the classics. i am reading dante.

not the inferno is most popular. i am on purgatory. thank god for footnotes. you would have to be a medieval scholar without the footnotes to know what he is referring to. those are the two that i have. host: thank you for, i, we appreciate it. william in louisiana. he texted i am currently reading the fiction thriller hammerhead, the first in a series by jason garbo, i cannot put it down. it's about u.s. sending special operations into mexico to confront the cartels. again, it's called hammerhead by nick bradshaw. during the segment, we have been trying to show you scenes from around the national book festival. you can see big crowds upstairs.

there are pavilions for each state. there is a library of congress pavilion. there are book sales, book signings, and in just a few minutes we will show you something very special that we will announce. it is a partnership between the library of congress and c-span. we will show you that in just a few minutes. first, we want to show you this video from the new series. >> this fall, join c-span for a literary journey featuring books by american authors that are provoked thoughts, controversy, and change throughout our history and are still talked about today. join us as we trace history and learn who would become through the books that shaped america. starting in 1776, thomas payne

argued it was common sense to break away from great britain. as the new nation evolved, advocates of a strong federal government launched a campaign to ratify the constitution. the young country pushed west of the pacific and under lewis and clark, explored the lands of the recent louisiana purchase. in 1845, slavery still divided the country but frederick douglass autobiography -- books and ideas continued to shape our national identity. from huckleberry finn to the harlem renaissance to free market principles to cesar chavez fight for labor rights. these are the ideas and movements that shaped america. join with your calls and comments. we look at books that are landmarks of american politics and law.

books that take you down the mississippi river to the open prairies of nebraska and pacific coast. books that examine free-market capitalism and workers rights. books that shaped america. live for 10 weeks on a nights at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span.org, and c-span radio starting september 18. host: carla hayden, books that shaped america. you realize the new series is inspired by the library of congress. >> yes in 2013 the library of congress developed a list of 100 books that shaped america. it was so popular and so the series are hoping everybody will join us to think about not only the 10 books that will be featured, but to give suggestions. it will be interesting to see. >> i know you were not at the

library at the time, but talking to people there, how did they narrow it to 100 books and we will talk about how we narrowed to 10 books as well. >> they thought about what were the books in the 200 years of american history that more people reading that were shaping some events like when you think about common sense by thomas payne, 1776 what's going on. here were all of these people, it was a best seller. we are reading this about self-governance, what it means to be free, all those things. the curators and librarians went through history and said what are the books that quite a few people read that they talk about later in life the impact it had

in their lives. what were those books? host: we want to quickly give you the list of 10 books that book tv narrowed from the library of commerce list. here is that list of 10 and here is the schedule beginning monday, september 18 these will on monday nights.p.m. common sense by thomas payne. the federalist. monday, october 2 history of the expeditionnder the command of lewis and clark. tober not, narrative of fe of frederick douglass. the first of his three autobiographies. the common law follows that. adventurckberry finn. at t impact that book had in 1884 when it wastt.

my aonia 1918. their eyes were watching god. free to choose, onal statement came out in 1980. and the of cesar chavez 2002. those are the 10 the book tv took from the library of congress list and i will tell you, it took a couple of months to come up with that because i had 14 in the list myself -- i had 14 lists creating this. ms. hayden: you probably read different books in different times of your life. a book that met something to you in this time in your life, helped people understanding like the autobiography of the narrative of the life of frederick douglass. his chapter about literacy and here we are at the book festival book tv he said once i learned

to read i was forever free. what that meant to him but it also helped the abolitionist movement to have frederick douglass have this narrative that he wrote and have more people read about slavery. that was a seminal book in terms of the abolitionist movement. host: it absolutely furthered the cause. ms. hayden: yes and he was so striking as well. to have him rating and other people reading it at the same time. that's the thing about books that shape america. you have people reading the same thing at the same time. >> we are looking at this list and as always, on all c-span programs, we want to hear from you. what books do you think impacted america? what books shaped america? you saw the list of 10 books we came up with. we will show you where you can

go if you search books shaped america library of congress, that list will come up. the library has put it up on blog post so you can see it immediately. you can see the books on their original list. start dialing and, if you have a book you think shaped america, impacted america, helped create what we are today, we want to hear from you. the numbers are divided by regions. if you sent a text message with your idea, please include your first name, your city, and why you think that book was important. when we developed this list, we

look for various points of view, various perspectives. it looks like the library did the same thing. ms. hayden: of course, because you have such diversity of thought in this country. there are certain authors that appeal to people for different reasons. when you look at the impacts of those books, the federalist, that's a term that you hear. what was going on? these are those essays. james madison and alexander hamilton in fact. all of those people at that time were writing about their ideas about government. there were divisions. even at the start of this country. it started with the parties. host: upstairs at the national book festival is a display. here's what it looks like.

books that shaped america display. if you go inside, you can see the you can record what book you think shaped or impacted america. we might use that on the air. this display you are seeing now will also be over the library of congress throughout this series and we are very pleased with that. on top of that, we have the website c-span.org/books that shaped america. the route, we detail the 10 books we will be talking about. on the main page, you will see fewer input. if you click, you can send a video directly to c-span. we want to hear from you as always what books shaped america. our partner is the library of congress. if you look at this list of 10

books dr. hayden, the library has an infinite amount of material about these books. >> that will be added to the blog and the website. and the program. we will be showing some of the artifacts. the library has the papers of oliver wendell holmes. we will be able to show his personal correspondence and the movie the magnificent yankee at the end, he says i'm getting my papers to the library of congress and it's like oh boy. we will be able to bring out first editions of these books but everything that companies them. it's an exciting series. the exciting part is that we want to know what the viewers are thinking. what will you say? our librarians and curators are excited. >> will you be updating the list as well?

hacks yes. we will keep and coordinate with you about what's coming in and revealing it, talking about it. it will be a way to get people to think about the importance of reading and getting ideas and sharing them as a collective. host: before we end this segment, we will show you the list of 10 books we chose. the ones we didn't choose include ben franklin, dr. seuss, margaret sanger, alex haley. those are some of the names on the list of books that shaped america created by the library of congress that we did not choose necessarily for perhaps season one in this series. our producers were up at the library and your curators put out some of the artifacts. they talked about the oliver wendell holmes, hurston papers,

and the mass from the lewis and clark expedition. i guess there is a map of the united states that in the middle it basically says to be determined or to be discovered. >> that's what's so wonderful when you think about that expedition and the fact that the library of congress has the world's largest collection of maps. we have some of the maps that were used on the expedition. then the diaries of the expedition. you get to see in real-time as that discovery was being made. what were people thinking? what were they writing down? how are they describing it? it's time when we are thinking about our environment and the things that have changed, to have real-time descriptions of a new world basically. host: you are a bit of a diplomat so you probably won't

answer this, but what is the book we left off our list of 10 that you would have put on? ms. hayden: probably black boy by richard wright. that was, it's a long time between that and frederick douglass. what richard wright did was bring some of the same emotions, feelings the repercussions of what had happened with frederick douglass. so many writers especially in the african-american tradition talk about the impact of that book. in fact, desmond ward one of the authors at the book festival said when she was like i didn't learn about this in school. i didn't know about some of this. that book had quite a bit of influence. host: one of my original lists that i created, it was all more contemporary authors.

we made the determination and this is how the library broke it up as well, if the year increments. -- 50 year increments. we chose to books from each 50 years. that made it hard, because there were so many in the last 40 years that we are all familiar with. roots, barry my heart at wounded knee. we could have chosen those and it would be easy but this is a history series so we wanted to go through history and that's why we chose two of them from each 50 year increments. let's hear from some of the viewers. joe and coconut creek, florida. we are talking about books with carla hayden. caller: caller: one book i think shaped

this country is "to kill a mockingbird." host: it is on the list. caller: i also like huckleberry finn. some of the other ones were like "the scarlet letter," about a moral panic. i think some people in florida should read it because of the things going on here. it is getting tough to be a librarian or media specialist. host: you lead with "to kill a mockingbird." how do you think it shaped america? caller: a whole sense of racial injustice in this country up until the 1960's when they got rid of the jim crow system and

had the voting rights affect. host: . thank you for calling in. carla: that is the difficulty of trying to select. whether they would be more contemporary? it had such an impact, then the movie, and a broadway revival at the right time when you think about things going on right now and the last five years, to kill a mockingbird. host: i am glad you brought that up. he also mentions "the scarlet letter." i think that is on the list as well. and "huckleberry finn," which came out in 1884. that always surprises me when i see the date. carla: hemingway said this is the book that impresses me. the naturalness and everything.

then he went on to do a few more books. host: asked the library of congress -- has to library of congress shifted the language in "huckleberry finn?" carla: you have to put things in context. that was the language at the time. the same thing can be said about zora neal houston. "the eyes were watching god." when alice walker resurrected her, she said she was an anthropologist and dialect is dialect. people did not speak that way. it was not until 1971 that is drawn neal hurston started to get her props as the kids say. for a long time, she was not

appreciated. host: carol, pennsylvania. good afternoon. caller: it is wonderful to talk with you. thank you for answering my call. i would say some books i read that were important were "roots." i have the privilege of hearing a lecture by alex helling at the university of pittsburgh that was eye-opening. i think it helped to change america. it helped us understand the bible because people did not believe in the oral tradition. when he exposed what he learns about his family through the oral tradition, it was quite eye-opening. one of the other books that changed my life and i'm sure changed america was, "the grapes of wrath," concerning the

dustbowl and what was going on at that time. another book i had to read in college that i know changed america and our view of native americans was "bury my heart, it wounded me." i still have a long-lasting association or interest in native american culture. i just finished reading "the color of the flower moon." host: thank you for all of this. ruth switches on the list. "the grapes of wrath," which is on the list. carla: you see the theme, the understanding people get from

reading it. empathy. books are windows of the world and can also be mirrors. i just heard someone say they can also the sliding doors, which means you go in and out. that was a good thing. if you think about "roots," and the theory. host: i was in high school in 1977 as i still remember everyone gathered in the family room, watching. carla: "the grapes of wrath," was so significant to give an understanding of what people had been through. some had not been through that applicant understands it. host: greg in tulsa. what is a book on your list that shaped america echo caller: thank you. this is an outstanding program.

there is one book that i think we would not have america without. we would not exist. it was written about a black stone journalists that influenced -- jurist the influenced our legal system. all their writings came from this book. the book i am speaking of is also responsible for religious freedom, because it does not say you must worship this way. it says choose. that is why there is all kinds of things about -- host: are you referring to the bible? caller: you guessed it. it is responsible for the abolition of slavery. it states monitoring level or gender or race -- none of that matters. we are all one in that book.

host: thank you. we appreciate your input. carla: that is on the list. and so many other countries and so many other religions and the first and second testament. host: you also have the prayer book. carla: yes. the first book printed in america. host: there was a display when we originally came out and took a tour of one of the things is alcoholics anonymous big books. i will send. -- by wilson. carla: yes. and when you think about that and the movement going on today, that was pivotal.

sometimes there are books people might not want to acknowledge what they really symbolize but we have to be realistic and also say this is something significant and helped so many people. host: we showed earlier the trailer we are going to be playing and we might have a chance to see it again later but we also showed the booth. the special books that shaped america booth. it is at the book festival. if you want to record what book you impacted america, you can go into the booth. it is a very civil structure but very elegant. i had not seen it until an hour ago. that booth will be at the library of congress throughout this series. if you are visiting, you can hear your thoughts.

carla: you know what i still have my copy of? "little women," by luisa mae alcott. because you had a lady that did not want to do this or that. think about this. host: you still have your cover -- your copy. being a teenager or young girl? carla: 12. i still have it. a beat up cover. host: did you cry? carla: when i read it, i was like wow. that was like life. it braces you in a way. host: there is the booth and we have a website at

c-span.org/booksthat shapedamerica. it is a lot of words but if you go to c-span.org, you can click on it. if you go there, you can see every book we will be talking about. at the top of the main page, click on that. you can send a video and record something that talks about the importance of a book or books in your view that helped make we are today. we may be using that on the air throughout the series. you are on book tv with the librarian of carla hayden. caller: good afternoon. we miss you at the washington journal table but it is good to see you here. mrs. carla, thank you for your

services to the nation. how much do i love c-span? i love c-span. 25 years it has been on the screen. my good friend craig stole my answer. the holy bible has been the most influential book in shaping this wonderful experience called america. he took my thunder. i am going to get off the air. i love what you are doing, i love this series. do not hesitate to use my image and likeness. host: thank you for that commercial. or importantly, tell us about yourself in tulsa. caller: i am here in athens, georgia. i think they got it messed up. thank you. longtime watcher, listener and

connoisseur of the seas and network. what mr. brian lam has done for america is truly underrated. because of what it does. it puts you in the seat of government where citizens get the opportunity to watch their government without any distractions and without any opinions. just puts you in the room to see how your government is moving and operating. host: tell us a little about yourself. what do you do in athens? caller: i am a 46-year-old truck driver running a professional operation and i am thankful and happy to be an american. through the grace of god who has given us so much opportunity. we have to stay focused.

i have six beautiful kids, a wife and a wonderful life. it could not be possible anywhere except the united states of america. host: we appreciate your time and are looking forward to seeing your video about the books that shaped america. carla: wasn't it wonderful being able to see unvarnished and unedited insight. sometimes books give you this chance. you can read it yourself and see what the authors intended and make your own decisions. it is wonderful to hear. host: austin, tampa. caller: i also wanted to say that the bible in my opinion is probably the most and eventual book in the world. it certainly has been for me.

i know with american history and a lot of these other folks you have, it certainly helped me be a proper american to see through these challenges our contemporary. and also the divine -- to find satisfaction in america. so i trust that our forefathers also relied on the guidance of the bible to get us to where we are. i appreciate the comment of the guy before me. i don't want to say too much but thank you. host: thank you. we appreciat time. these series -- this series mday, september 8 on c-span at 9:00 p.m. books that shaped arica. the library of congress. the federalist came out in 1787.

the histhexpedition wis and clark in 1814.aptain's there it is with frederick douglass and the ame slaves, the first of his three autobiographies that came out in the advent of huckleberry finn, mark twain, zora neal hurston in 1930'sby o oose, a statementy milton and rose friedman. then the words of cesar chavez in 2002. i don't think we did it on purpose but it just struck me the last two books are on economics. carla: you got it. and when you think about 2002,

it seems like, that recent? cesar chavez and the united farm workers and everything going on and all this in terms of working conditions echo it was not that long ago. 2002. inc. about that. -- think about that. then of course milton friedman. and the discussions of cryptocurrency. all these things about economics and what is going on. host: two more calls and then we have to let the librarian go. steve in macon, georgia. caller: hello. can you hear me? host: we are listening. caller: i am trying to talk into having trouble with my phone. can you your miyako -- you hear

me? host: we can hear you. i apologize, going to let steve go. anna. caller: i am enthralled. i enjoyed hearing from the other people who felt like they influenced america. i am reading two books right now. "mrs. lincoln's dressmaker." i am enjoying getting into it. and learning so much. i never read a book until i was 65 years old. i had a learning disability. i don't have it anymore. i learned to read and retain. i am 89 years old.

i am also reading "braiding sweetgrass." that is about the teaching of pants by robin wall kimora. she is pretty technical. she is a native american of many generations. deluded, i think but they are knowledgeable and i'm joining that book. the "mrs. lincoln's dressmaker ," is about a black woman who was a slave and made her way out. she was raped by a white man and had a son. the sun turned out pretty great. both are from book clubs that i

am a member of. i like reading about other people and how they built america. they built america, the native americans and black. host: thank you for your call. carla: isn't that wonderful that it is never too late to get the joy of reading and it can still open up windows no matter where you are in life? you can get that empathy and insight and pure joy of learning and being open. host: if somebody types in or searches for books that shaped america, library of congress, they will find this and get the list. they are reading the list and saying, what about this? five years ago, this book came out that is very important. this should be on the list. can they make those comments to

the library of congress as well? carla: yes, we welcome them. we are really excited about what people will say and think. because it was until 2013. more books have come out. there are certain books people have talked about in the last 10 years that's probably will be classics 50 years from now -- that will probably be classics 50 years from now. do you want them to video and do that too? it will be a giant book club. host: well put. some books mentioned by our viewers are on the list and our list. the bible. to kill a mockingbird. scarlet letter. roots. bury my heart. those are just some books viewers mentioned that are on the library's list.

we look forward to having your input. dr. carla hayden, library of congress. thank you for partnering with c-span for "books that shaped america." we will continue to take your calls. we have to let dr. carla hayden go but we will continue taking calls on books you think impacted who we are today. here is the official trailer for only the second time on national tv. announcer: this fall, join c-span for a literary journey featuring oaks by american authors that provoke controversy and change throughout american history and are still talked about today. join us as we chase america history and look for the books that shaped america. starting in 1776 before we were these united states, thomas

payne argued it was common sense to break away from great written. advocates for the strong federal government waste a print campaign for a strong constitution. in the early 1800s, they went west. under the command of lewis and clark, explored the lands of the louisiana purchase. in 1845, slavery divided the country but thomas douglas is autobiographies advocated for abolition. as our nation matured, books and ideas shaped our national identity. from mark twain's huckleberry finn to the harlem renaissance. to cesar chavez's fight for labor rights. these are the ideas and movements that shaped america. join in the conversation with calls and comments with c-span and the library of congress to look at books that are landmarks of the nation.

books that take you down the mississippi river to the open prairies of nebraska and to the pacific coast. books that examine free-market capitalism and workers rights. books that changed america. monday nights at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c's and, c-span -- c-span.org and c-span now. host: we are still live at the national book festival. a couple more hours. we just finished a conversation with dr. carla hayden, the librarian of congress, about a new series lunching september 18 on c-span with our partner, the library congress. "books that shaped america." new we have a new booth shane -- set up that is there.

the record yourself and talk about a book you think shaped america and why it is important. people have been doing this all day long. this booth will be at the library of congress throughout the series so you will be able to participate. you can also participate in using our website. c-span.org/booksthatsha pedamerica. at the top, there is a viewer input button. click that. send a video off. we may use it on air in the series. the website has a profile of all 10 books we are doing on the series. before we end the segment, we will look at the books one more time. back to your calls. books that impacted and shaped america and why you think so. walter in poughkeepsie, new

york. hello. caller: i want to thank c-span for what they do. it is incredible. i book is "the right stuff," by walter. i think this permeated through society form the 60's and space program and through. i tell people to read this and recommend. host: what are you reading right now? caller: right now, i am reading douglas brinkley's "silent spring revolution." i am getting through that and enjoying it. host: we just covered him a little while ago. he will be out here later today. we will talk general history when he gets out here. john in liberty, indiana. caller: i think "uncle tom's

cabin," is one of the main books that influenced america. it has a derogatory reputation because of stuff that went on later but i think it is definitely one of the big influences right after the civil war. the characterization is very interesting. the white characters tend to be stereo typical but they all seem to be flawed. that would be my -- one of my choices. host: i believe that was 1852. that is on the library of congress's books that shaped america's original list and one we looked at for our 10. this is a text message from

romie from massachusetts. one of the books that shaped me as a daughter of immigrants. "i know why the caged bird sings" by maya angelou. "to kill a mockingbird" by harper lee. "the grapes of wrath" by john steinbeck. "the hate u give." next, richard. caller: i would just think -- by winston churchill, not the prime minister. it was a very good book. host: why is that one that cap you? why do you think it impacted our nation? caller: it was back during the

time that women -- the church was changing. women were getting to where they would have jobs and do other stuff besides being housewives. you have to read it to get the full effect. host: thank you, sir. deborah in lakeport, california. what is the book you think impacted or shaped america? caller: they have already all been mentioned as it was required reading for me in high school. all of these book -- these books were very socially expanding. but i hear a lot of them are being banned. i first want to express my appreciation for what it must take to keep the doors of the

library of congress open, and books that changed our past. but there are new books being written i had the pleasure of learning about on your program. even philip howard who is coming out with "accountability." all in all, keeping books open and read is what is most important for expanding our mind and accepting our possibility for where we are now. thank you so much. goodbye. host: host: that is deborah in --. hello, victoria. victoria, are you with us? please go ahead and make your comment, victoria. i tell you what, we are going to have to let victoria go. we are going down to georgia.

carl is in gaithersburg, georgia. caller: actually i am from gaithersburg, maryland. host: that makes more sense. caller: the comment i would like to make is i'm not sure, is " uncle tom's cabin" on the book list? host: it is on the original library of congress list. harriet beecher snow. it was one we considered for our list but it did not make the cut however, we did in a previous history series do harriet beecher stauffer our america writers series. that was featured on c-span. caller: what i thought was interesting was the character of uncle tom himself and how the african-american community began to use uncle tom in a derogatory sense saying, you are a servant

of the white man, you are kowtowing to the white man if you are uncle tom. and if you actually read the book, uncle tom suffers through torture and does not let the slave owner know where certain escaped slaves have gone and i have always found that interesting. the original intent of the character gets changed and used differently throughout american history. and then the second book i would like to talk about is one that my daughter suggested. it is the original "spider-man" by stan lee comic books. she said it was good because it introduced the idea of a character that had drug addiction and spider-man was helping him overcome his drug addiction and apparently the commentators at the time or the writers guild at the time did not necessarily want that comic

books published because it dealt with that kind of issue back in the 1950's. those are the two that the nelson family would suggest. caller: we appreciate your input. peter in greenwich, connecticut. peter, good afternoon to you. caller: thank you so much. i wanted to put a plug in for libraries in general. the u.s. has flaws but melville dewey invented the dewey decimal system. it went in to the e world. the letters on the one side and the numbers on the other. it is not an appreciation but the library of congress is just awesome and i love your show. i will tell you my feelings --

[indiscernible] in the early 1970's. it is relevant to today's media. and to have c-span is a gift from a lot of places including the big guy upstairs. host: this tweet from courtney brooks. alexander de tocqueville's " democracy in america we read this two summers ago. that is the one she puts in their. let's hear from chris in oak park, illinois. what is the book or books that you think impacted or shaped america. caller: one of the things that impacted america was the cold war. i am reading "checkmate in berlin." a story about the occupation and division about berlin at the fall of world war ii. i am just getting into it.

prior to this i read "economy hall." a true story of blacks attempting -- black free men attempting to be self-sufficient in new orleans before and after the civil war up until academy hall closed in the early 1950's. it was a very moving and informative book. i highly recommend it to everybody. host: and that is chris in oak park, illinois. thank you to everybody that participated. the new series, "books that shaped america" startsca -- starts monday. a project between c-span and the library of con here are the 10 books tt are featured. common sense by thomas payne. the federalist.

history of the expedition of lewis and clark. october 2. october 9, the life of frederick ss comm by oliver wendell holmes. oc 23, adventures of huckleberry finn tin. the next mondayig, my antonia by will look out there. thr eyes were watching god november 6. free to choose, a personal statement by mil rose. and finally we conc words of cesar chavez on november 28. books that shaped america starts september 18. well, we are still live at the national book festival. the 23rd time in a row that book tv has been here and we have a couple more hours of coverage. in a few minutes you will be hearing from authors talking about black writing and identity. after that, food and culture.

we have two more guests coming to the such. one is chasten buttigieg. i have something to tell you is the name of his book followed by doug brinkley who has written a number of books on everything historical. we will talk to him about the ark of history. in the meantime, we want to show you another author. this was beverly gage. she had a pulitzer prize-winning book out this year about hoover and the fbi. here she is from last nights opening ceremony of the national book festival. >> i did not set out to write a biography of hoover because i wanted to redeem him or because i wanted to convince other people to admire him in some way. very early on when i was just getting started writing this biography, i was on a panel with

two of my historian colleagues at yelp who were also writing biographies. one was john gaddis who was writing a biography of the great cold war strategist and thinker. one was david white who was writing a biography of frederick douglass, the great abolitionist . and there i was writing biography of j edgar hoover. and what was interesting to me about that panel was that though we were all engaged in this project called biography we each had radically different relationships with our subjects. john gaddis was writing about someone that he actually knew. this was a semi-authorized biography. george had said go forth and write about me but do it once i am gone and then he proceeded to live to be more than 100 years old. [laughter]

so that was a complicated biographical relationship. david blight was writing about someone that he deeply admired. someone he had spent his career thinking about and someone who was among the most admired thinkers in all of american history. and i had a slightly different problem than that which is that i was going to write a big book about someone who was among the most universally hated figures of the 20th century. i want to say though that that was one of the things that made me want to write about hoover. he is often portrayed in our public culture, in our popular culture as a sort of one-dimensional building. a figure that was in the back room listening in on everyone and pulling strings and manipulating and threatening people and to be frank, that is a big part of what this book is

about because he did a lot of those things. [laughter] as i began to think about his history, what struck me was how inadequate that image was to understand not only who he was but a kind of power that he wielded. and how he came to wheeled the power in the first place and how he stayed in office for so long. for those of you not deep in the hoover story, i will offer it to you -- the first is that he was director of the fbi for 48 years. he was there from 1924 until 1972. just to fill that out a little more, he was appointed under calvin coolidge. he stayed on under herbert hoover, the dawn of the great depression. they were not related. there were a lot of new stories about that at the time. he was then therefore all three

terms of franklin roosevelt's presidency so he is there through the new deal, through the second world war. he stays on under harry truman. he is therefore mccarthyism. he stays under dwight eisenhower and john kennedy and under lyndon johnson and he is there under richard nixon. and he dies in may, 1972 still in office. one of the things that really drew me to writing about hoover was this amazing sweep of time. the fact that he had his fingers in everything but also there were really important and complicated things to say about the changes in the city of washington throughout a period, changes in the federal government and its security state during that period and a story on how a single bureaucrat could wield enough power to

reshape many aspects of american politics from our law and order politics, to the way law enforcement in this country is carried out, to its broader politics constraining as well as sometimes enabling movement like the antiwar movement and other major social movements of the 20th century. that is what drew me to hoover. i want to finish by confessing i had a few concerns about whether or not the world in fact wanted a biography of j edgar hoover. the first of those was that in our polarized moment, hoover does not fit well into political categories that we know. he was a deep believer in the nobility of professional government service, nonpartisan service, career service.

that would stand outside of politics. that is most government work going on. and he was also a deep ideological conservative particularly on questions of raised, communism, and religion. what he did was put those traditions together in a way we don't see reflected in our politics of effectively. i wondered if we could in fact have a conversation about this more complicated politics and what it might tell us about the present. my other deep anxiety in these 12 years was as david rubenstein said, this is not a period in which the 800 page book is a big piece of cultural currency. i was a little concerned that in our quick take world, there would not be a place for a book like this. and i am enormously grateful and

heartened to find there is a whole world of people that want to read this kind of book and i suspect other people in this room, a world of people that still want to write this kind of book. and i want to finish off by saying that while we are here at the national book festival celebrating the library of congress, the champions of the book, they are also an amazing archival resource and are champions for the kind of archival research that goes into writing this sort of history that i wrote and continue to write that could not be done without these amazing washington institutions. so, thank you, all for that. [applause] host: that was pulitzer prize winning author beverly gage last night at the opening ceremony of the national book festival. we are live at the washington convention center. we are now joined by author

chasten buttigieg. his book "i have something to tell you" came out originally in 2020. the young adults version came out this year. chasten buttigieg, you tell a story at the beginning of the book about going from starbucks to washington, d.c. in 18 years. what happened? chasten: the stickiness of starbucks helps if you adjust to washington, d.c. i fell in love with the mayor and did not see my life going from teaching middle school to running for president. but it has changed life in many ways. i really miss teaching but i am also very happy to be on tour with this oak. i feel like i'm in a larger classroom having important conversations especially at a time when books like this are facing political attacks across the country. host: how did you change the

language in this version for young adults from the original? chasten: i should have given it a new title. i wanted to infuse a lot of new stories. it was not just about modifying language but about telling a new story. the ark of childhood to today. it was written for eighth grade me. it was the book i wished i had in middle school to say it was ok to be gay and it was ok to be myself. we did not talk about that growing up in very conservative northern michigan. i wanted to include more stories about coming out and learning to love myself and embrace my differences and how that helped me in political and public life. host: had you come out by the time you met the secretary? chasten: yes, i came out to my parents the summer i turned 18. host: what was that like for you

in traverse city, michigan? chasten: it was tough. i wrote a letter apologizing to my mom and i ran away from home. i couch surfed with friends. i tried to get through community college. i tried to figure it out. luckily, my parents called me home. they did not know anything about raising a gay kid. they put aside the prejudices of other people aside. they put all of that aside because they wanted to keep their kid safe and alive. host: had you heard anti-gay sentiments growing up in your family? in your school and community? chasten: that was the norm. my family is a very loving and insular family. one of the common reactions and conversations that came after coming out, once i came back

home and things were getting better, was that nobody cared but i was so convinced that they would. i was convinced i would lose my family and friends simply because we did not talk about the existence of lgbtq people. the only thing i was hearing in my 4-h group, in church, in the school hallways was that this is something that should be mocked. i remember matthew shepard vividly going up and i was convinced i would also happen to me. if someone finds out you are gay, it could get you killed. host: when you did come out, did life get better? chasten: life got better because other people helped me make it better. having your parents in your corner is life-changing. i don't know what would have happened to younger me had i not had the love of my family. and not everybody gets to go home. not everybody's mom picks up the phone and says, come back and we

will figure it out. having friends in my corner that made me feel loved and accepted and who were there when it was difficult. that is how it got better for me. it took a very long time for me also to love myself. this problem of internalized homophobia, you grow up her 20 some years being told you are disgusting and not worthy of love, civil rights or protection. and that you will never know community. you really start to hate yourself. you start to believe some of the awful things that people are saying to you. that took me a while even after coming out to lean into my differences and allow me to love me. host: les, -- chasten buttigieg, there are two journeys you went on, germany and wisconsin. chasten: germany was an escape.

i got a government-sponsored exchange program scholarship my senior year in high school and that was to run away. i studied german for four years. i was qualified for the program on paper but i wanted to get out of northern michigan as fast as i could. and running away to the north woods of wisconsin, maybe not the big gay mecca you might look for in college but i went to a smaller liberal arts school and studied theater and found my community. i was able to finish college surrounded by people that said it was ok for me to be me. host: you can see the numbers on the screen if you have comments you would like to make or questions you have for author chasten buttigieg. the book is "i have something to tell you." it is for young adults. an adult version came out in 2020. was pete buttigieg out when you

met him? chasten: yes. host: was he comfortable being in a relationship at that point? chasten: that is his story to tell. we buddies coming out story is there is -- everybody's coming out story is there is to tell. -- theirs to tell. we had an incredible romance from the beginning. a fairytale. first date went from a drink, to dinner, two tickets for the ballgame. there were fireworks at the ballgame that night. i think we were both at that time in our lives, at least i felt, very much ready to focus on what it felt like to be truly loved and seen by somebody else. and i had very different experiences being out.

i talk about in my first book the experience with rejection, with things like sexual assault and very bad relationships. and i was ready to move on from them and it also prevented me from truly allowing myself to be loved i somebody else. and i don't think i ever really understood what love meant until i met pete. to really feel like somebody was there for all of your faults and for all of your charms. truly there to support and love you. host: if i remember correctly, in 2020, the buttigieg ticket won the iowa caucus. what was that iowa caucus like for a spouse? chasten: i mean -- i think at the time the historical aspect of it did not sink in because

everything was happening so fast. life was like a tornado. when you are running for president, there is no time to stop and catch your breath and realize what is happening around you. you are meeting thousands of people each day and taking countless selfies and having conversations along the rope line. people that spent four hours driving to see you. in some pockets of this country it is still not safe to be lgbtq . those types of conversations are being peppered in on a rope line when someone is so moved just to see that you exist. it took a long time to allow myself to realize that you also are part of something historical. and it still means a great deal to me. i know we sit in this position of privilege and people are watching and paying attention to

what you have to say and i want to make sure that i use this moment to keep pulling other people up, to keep thinking of how do i use this platform -- it matters what you say and what you do when you go out there. the campaign itself was a historical moment. it meant so much to us and to others and now we can continue the opportunity to change the way we talk about lgbtq rights in this country and to show two day dads trying their best to raise two toddlers. host: do you think traverse city, michigan has changed since you were growing up? chasten: dramatically. when i was growing up they put rainbow stickers on bumpers. and it was for "everyone belongs."

the backlash to those stickers was so loud that people were ripping them off numbers. now we have "up north pride" which is a fantastic organization in michigan. i walked down front street in traverse city. it was not a parade with any corporate sponsorships but it was just an inclination that northern michigan was moving on. it means a lot. when you see a rainbow flag and a storefront you do not have to question whether or not it is ok to bring in your family or hold the hand of your husband on the sidewalk. you know this city is an inclusive one. host: if eighth-graders that you say you wrote this for, if eighth-graders read this book, what do you want them to take

away? chasten: the thing i wish younger me would've known that i want middle schoolers now to know is the opinions of the people around you do not matter. i was so wrapped up in the opinions of my peers. i thought, whatever they think of me is what truly matters. i was terrified of them. ahead my truest self from them and tried to blend. and now i go to target and see some when i went to high school with and i have no idea who they are. i wish i could my differences and leaned into everything that made me me. host: do you think you shortchanged other people as well? maybe they wanted to be your friend. chasten: i have had incredible conversations with classmates that have apologized. i don't remember them specifically doing anything. i had a heartwarming conversation was someone i went

to high school web who said -- i don't know if i did anything but it breaks my heart to know i could have been part of the problem. having those conversations now means a lot to me. i certainly know there are some people -- we all remember our high school bullies. i got to grow up and be this person and now i get to think about my kids and my family and not about what the high school bully was thinking -- was saying. what i want middle schoolers to know is it is ok to be different. this book is not just for middle schoolers but for their parents, their teachers, those that love them to have an opportunity to walk in someone else's shoes and to understand a little more what it means to be a young lgbtq person in this country. as they wonder if they truly belong here. host: monique from new jersey,

you are on with author chasten buttigieg. caller: hello. it is nice to hear about your family being so inclusive and the love you are given. my question is, although you are not transgender, i would like to know how do you feel about -- it has become so popular that i am concerned that younger people are not considering the possible health consequences of surgery and particularly the hormones. those you need to be on for the rest of your life. i don't hear this in the media so much talking about that. it is concerning to me from the health perspective. host: we got your point. chasten buttigieg anything you

would like to address? chasten: i am not transgender so i need to be specific with my words. i know what it is like to feel that i am on the outside of inclusion and confused about whether or not people would love me or if my family would except me and if it is safe to be myself. i have to say, growing up gay i wished so desperately when i was young that i was not gay because everybody around me made me feel like it was wrong. and i was told 418, 19 years that i was wrong and something about me was broken. and there is nothing like that rejection from your peers, your family, your community. i think the thing we have to do right now especially cis folks, those with platforms is listen to the people in this community. i am more interested in what

they have to say about their existence and their health care. i should be learning from them. i believe those types of conversations and decisions should be left to a transgender person or their parents. those conversations can happen in consultation with your doctor but i should not be weighing in on that. i want every kid to feel welcomed, safe and supported. i know every major reputable medical association in this country supports gender affirming care so i will follow the experts in that field and listen to them. i value those trans lives and i believe their lives mad or and i want to keep them alive. i think we all as adults and as a country should want to keep trans people alive. and listening to the experts is where we should be spending our energy. not on social media. host: eric, long island, good afternoon. caller: hello.

caller: i want to commend you for writing the book you did to enlighten people. that is the first thing. the second thing is, how do you put this peggy with christianity? as a christian, and the whole thing about the bible saying every sin is equal to another sin. i kind of struggle with this. for you and your spouse? chasten: thank you. i am not sure i got the specific question. host: it was a square the hole with christianity and being gay. chasten: sure. i was married in the church.

my husband is a bit more religious than i am. everyone is on their own spiritual journey. the people in our church is extremely inclusive people, the way they interpret their scripture and religion is to be in service of other people and loving of other people. i thought about this a lot. growing up, my family was religious and i thought, why would anyone believe god would make a lesser human being? why would god make me this way to be hated on and discriminated by other people? i don't think, with the religion i believe in, to go through life choosing who god loves and god does not love. i certainly appreciate the longing to a faith on my own faith journey, listening to people talk about how they interpret scripture to mean it is inclusive of more people.

at the end of the day, my family is like every other family. waking up tired, trying to get our kids fed, in the stroller and to daycare. we are doing everything every other family is doing. behind some of those questions is a little fear and unknown about who lgbtq people are. sometimes we don't want to just talk about being gay all day. i realize i wrote the book about that, but i want to go through life, raise my kids, be a good father and teacher. i think we should all want that, for everyone, just to feel like we belong. go ahead. i know we have another one. host: have to cut you off. i apologize. the author is chastity buttigieg. the book is called "i have something to tell you."

it is the young adult version. up next, a literary discussion on black identity. live coverage. >> good afternoon. wonderful to see everybody here. are you having a good time at the national book festival? [cheering] welcome to the 23rd annual national library of congress book festival. a place where everyone has a story. i am the collections officer of the library of congress and it is my pleasure to welcome you all here. i ask you kindly to turn off or silence your electronic devices and cell phones. if you need to leave the room in the middle of the presentation, the exits are behind the pillars in the back. this event will be recorded and your presence constitutes your

consent to be filmed or recorded. thank you and enjoy the program. [applause] >> hello. . thank you. >> i have to go first. . >> sorry. >> maybe it makes sense. jericho is moderating. i am casper. i am the head of poetry at the library of congress. i want to give a shot to everyone in the room and those joining us via c-span across the country. i am pleased to introduce this event behind the scenes with black writers. featuring jericho brown and two authors. jericho was last at the festival in tonight -- 2019 to talk about his third and most recent book

of poems which went on to win the pulitzer prize of poetry. [applause] he is the charles howard professor and creative writer at emory university. today, he is here to lead a discussion on the anthology edited titled "how we do it, black writers, how we craft, practice, and skill," which he describes as a book of answers to questions do writers ask everyday about how to produce writers -- books that show their character every day. we are delighted to have two authors on stage. camille is the author of four portrait collections and two --

poetry collections and two book collections. she is a university distinguished professor at colorado state university. tiffany unique is the author of two novels, a book of short stories and a poetry collection. her book "poetry for children, i am the virgin islands," was featured on the great books great list and a 2021. her novels "monster in the middle" was distinguished. join me in rectum -- welcoming jericho brown, kamil, and tiffany unique. jericho: thank you so much for that introduction. can everyone hear me in the back? it is wonderful. i like when people give me the thumbs up.

that means go ahead. i am doing something different. i have been starting whatever i do, even my mornings, with a poem. i am going to recite a poem by a poet who gets mentioned a few times called lucille clifton. "cruelty, do not talk to me about cruelty or what i am capable of. when i wanted the roaches dead, i wanted them dead and killed them. i took a broom to their country and slashed and sliced without warning, without stopping. i smiled to the entire time i was doing it. it was a holocaust of roaches, parts of bodies, read all over the ground. they did not ask my name, i did not ask their name. they had no name worth knowing. now i watch myself whenever i enter a room.

i never know what i might do." i like that poem. [applause] i am really happy to be here but i am particularly happy to share this stage with writers i admire so much who have no -- you i have known for a long time and to make me feel like a real person because i get to sit here with these people. tiffany is my colleague at emory university and camille is one of the first ever poets i have seen in my life. their work means so much to me. i want to give them a hand. also, i want to say thank you to dana williams and darlene taylor, who are in the audience. they are my coeditors who came to me from hurston writing and

howard university with the idea to put the anthology together. when they came with this idea, they told me i could be the editor in name only if i wanted to be. [laughter] but i wasn't going to do that because i didn't know what they would do with the book. [laughter] when people ask you to do stuff, no matter what happens, you are going to be too busy to do it. the reason i decided to do this book, i wish i could say had anything to do with my love of black people. that is not why i decided to do this book. i decided because when they asked me, a unders -- i understood if i said no, i would not be able to control what can't -- who they asked after me. i did not want to see this book with the name grant harlow on it. [laughter] i put my hands very deep into the work that is this book and i

am proud of it. does anybody in the audience have a copy? if you do, can you hold it up? you see this? i am very pretty used with the work this book has been to being in the world. i will read a short fuse from the introduction that will give some idea of how i mean for this to work. then we will hear from our guest panelist geniuses on stage. how we do it is not a conventional anthology of craft essays. our request of the writers in the pages was how they go about making what they make, what happens to move things from a blank page to a beautiful book. this is a book of answers, answers to questions do writers ask about how to produce writing that proves their identity as a practitioner.

in other words, this is a book for anyone who is a student of the craft. it is a book for younger and newer black writers and undergraduate work -- writers at workshops and workshops. we hope teachers find these works helpful for their students and that students who have yet to find teachers learn from these 62 pieces born out of generosity and hope for the future of black writing. my dream was to create this classroom where you can have teachers who always wanted to have without having to pay tuition. [laughter] we have arranged this volume in a way we hope to find suppose a foundering subset by genre. i am certain there is news for the poet and essay on vernacular by daniel black. i believe the poet evie shockley

is in talks with barry jenkins, the filmmaker who made "moonlight." if you do not like moonlight, i don't like you. [laughter] this is a book i wish existed 20 years ago. i would have led an easier life if it had. how we do this is divided into eight sections with a range of essays. each, who are your people, what you got, where you act, what you look like, how to read, going back, and more. they are intended to communicate the fact the sections cannot be narrowed down the jargon with which writers are accustom. you are not going to name them voice, tone, setting, character there, or good advice because

every essay gives more than any single topic this is the intro. how we do it is a kind of selfish gift. i want you to have what i always wanted. here is an anthology that gives us the ability to try on the way you write and close. it proves nothing ever beats a failure but a try. this is something my grandmother used to say. just remember anything you ever did well, you only did it well because you try to do it. if you do not try, you do not get anything. do you understand that? i want to ask by panelists with questions because there is a man with the time on a sign in front of. because i will just start talking. camille dungy and tiphanie

yanique, why do you think it is important for emerging black writers to read essays like these included in the book? tiphanie yanique. there just staring at each other. [laughter] tiphanie: camilla so pretty, i could stare at her forever. i want to thank our asl interpreter who is providing so well -- is vibing so well. he beheld with what we are saying but also the vernacular. do y'all see this? [laughter] that is good. which is important to what we are talking about. the importance of language and possess that might be particular to black for not killer. this book is so important because growing up in the virgin islands, which is where i am from, we have a rich history and legacy of literature in the

region. the virgin islands is part -- i will be politically correct. i might say other things on a different stage. we are part of the united states so i did not grow up reading caribbean literature. jericho: you should say those things. tiphanie: we are colonized by the united states. we are a part of them but we are technically "of" the united states. you often do not read literature from the place you are from or experience cultural things from the place you are from. a lot of the learning comes from the place that owns you. i wrote -- i read incredible literature written predominantly by white american writers and white british writers. i did not see caribbean writers or black writers or black

caribbean writers or african-american writers. i did not have them as my availability. i thought when i became a writer that i would be the first one. that is how ignorant i was. [laughter] i know, right? but that is colonialism. i felt a lot the whole time like i was constantly looking for who i would belong to and what literary tradition i might belong to. i stumbled four years. i feel like this book would have kept a younger me from stumbling so much. the things i had to learn about what it meant to uphold the virgin islands language as literary and beautiful and not just as the bud of the joke of the fiction but to be elevated to the poetic. i did not learn that until late in my writing journey and if i had the look, i would have

learned that earlier. tiphanie: one of the things that happens to writers of color in particular the upper writers who have -- are not necessarily incorporating the marginalized communities voices in their work as much of what tiffany has been saying about looking for models looking for pathways and guides that are available. another thing that happens with the conversations about those work, once food -- we figured out how to do this and establish once the conversation comes back, and we are being interviewed, the questions have everything to do with our identity, plot, theme, and

little to do with craft. with how we built it. when i conduct an interview, i make a point of asking specific questions about craft. what i see from authors is always, thank you very much. the plot of the piece. not often how i built it. that limiting nature of understanding myself as a maker of a craft, an object that used to be crafted with particular types of decision is everything only gets put to the top of reality. it means we miss the most crucial thing about how writing is done. so having access to work on a craft by identifying people, black identifying people of all

the aspects of different ways this craft is made and built. it is just an exciting thing to be part of and have out there. jericho: i went to graduate school at the university of houston for my phd which is where i met tiffany. i have gone to get anmsa entail university of portland where there was barely -- and msa at the university of new orleans where there was barely a reading program. i also distinctly remember to your point, camille dungy, reading that was given by kevin young and yusuf. during the day, they came to answer questions and people only ask them about jazz and blues. it was very strange.

one of them had mentioned an artist in a poem and because of that, the entire conversation was about jazz and blues. i don't mind but we never talked about poems which happens often to black writers. therefore you are a person in the audience trying to get answers to your actions and you do not get them unless you want to play the trumpet. [laughter] as seasoned writers who teach others how to embrace their creativity, is there an essay that taught you something you had not considered or made you stop and pause as you reflected on your own writing practice? camille: that is interesting. i answer to that question is an essay by evie shockley who is a

genius of our time. nothing new. a poetic experiment. because there is nothing new, the idea that we are out there. see language and thus we are out there seeing -- that we are out there seeing fresh language. i was grateful to some of the ways that evie shockley articulates the specific necessity of doing a kind of reframing and rethinking as a black writer. in some ways she talks about the history of violence and marginalization and erasure built in and language we are using as a structure and forms

we use to create literature we are writing and how black writers reimagine and shift and change an act of resistance. there are ways that evie shockley particulars that that is exciting to have that capture. there is something specific about the poems and there is a cogent and clear articulation in her mind throughout the book to see that kind of action. tiphanie: i love this question because it allows us to hold up geniuses on the stage.

it thus those of us on this stage have award-winning books and our writers and professors so you we have all i -- of it together. we are all in the process of continuing to learn and work hard on our craft. especially talking with jericho about the ways in which our content of our work gets held up and not the making of our work. two highlights that we continue to trouble through how to make literature -- to highlight that we continue to get through how to make literature. i am reading an essay by maria golden that is called "how to write a memoir or take me to the river." i am currently writing essays about how the blackbody stays safe in the world. it is not only in danger of also

staying safe. the individual essays are very cerebral and maybe even academic. i have been resisting getting personal in the essays. after reading maria's passage, i am rethinking with more bravery. if it is ok, i want to read what she has written. "father is the first man i ever loved. that is the first sentence of my book. it is a invitation that equates the love i felt as a child with my womanhood." writing a memoir forces you to take ownership of the story of your own life. ownership means claiming your life in false starts and final recognition. there are no past measures and no second guessing in memorable memoir.

this is who i was, this is who i am, these are the emotions i felt. this is my mother, this is my father, this is me. writing a memoir means being prepared to uncover your life and its terror and pain. to discover this and shape its story. memoirs allowed me to understand how much i loved my parents, how much they love me, my strength and resilience and the ways my life is a reflection of the lives we all live. maria's essays inspired me to think about this memoir of keeping the black people safe, to also -- the blackbody safe, who also thinking about my own body and the way it has been kept safe but also put in danger. and to think about the ways my mother was the first person to put my body into danger.

that her own instability made me, a person who was in danger as an infant, but she was also the person who first put me into safety because she passed me to my grandmother, who was a source of great stability and love for all of us, but in particular for me and my body. that would not be something i would be able to put into the memoir or on the stage if it was not for maria's essay. [applause] jericho: thank you. i should say that maria golden is the founder of --. is she here? no? good. i get embarrassed when i see her because i was a student in the workshop and every time i see her, i start turning red. she is like this person among us that i want to bow down to every time i see her.

is there anyone else here who has ever taken a hurston right workshop or taught for it? is it just me? >> went over here. jericho: let's give maria a hand clap. [applause] tiphanie: one of the things also about this anthology and the person is giving the flowers. it is like naming a foundation for black writers after zora nea le hurston which was creating a space where we honor the legacies. that is one of the awards. the legacy awards. here is the next incoming of

this community of writers and the fifth anthology because you collect through the generations. you create this space for us to see this long tradition that goes backward and forward forever. jericho: and not only goes backward and forward but also extends very wide left and right. in the title of this organization is hurston right. very different writers. it is letting you know there is diversity in black voices and will be in the black voices who have anything to do with the organization which i have always been really proud to be a part of. we are in a moment of book bands and other kinds of censorship. some black writers i know have even joked one way to know you

wrote something useful is some state legislature -- legislator has tried to outlaw it. [laughter] [applause] how much are you thinking or responding to this as you are writing? what is the value of an anthology like this one in such an era? camille: i am not the type of writer that responds to what is happening much outside my own heart and mind. i want to write what feels like it will last forever in the importance. i try not to write in response to what is popular or normative. i want to write what is inside and feels important. but the current political moment and the urgency with which it is

important for us to hold up intellectual freedom has made me want to write faster, to get the books out there urgently. it makes me realize that what i am doing, although private and personal, it is also important for everyone. it makes me less precious about my writing. that is something that has public import. it makes me want to finish the books quickly and focus on them. my motherhood is important to me, i friendships, the role i have in my emily and at my university. but it has made me remember how important it is to put pen to paper. it has put a fire under me. >> one of the things i find most puzzling and unsurprising, --

[laughter] jericho: thank you for that phrase. >> the fact that the books are being banned because they represent lives that certain people do not want referenced in the world. they do not want them to have the power of language, and the power of being in a book which gives it a kind of authority. and somehow there is an idea that if these worlds are given the power of language, it's magic. that people will be recruited and made a certain way because they have read it.

as a pose to -- as opposed to, recognition. you read something, and you see also, i am also seeing myself there. i am seeing someone who i love, or could love. my essay in how we do it is about writing a deep engagement with awareness, awareness of the senses. it is frequently what is important in good writing. astute attention. to the world and a world that wants to distract us all the time. it wants to not have us pay attention, not have people stop and feel how everything is

happening, who other people, what the era is. that is the world, it is easier to hoodwink people into thinking we should think alike and act alike. a world that demands and artistic attention that well-written book's offer and demand of us. it is anti-authoritative. and an expensive world. for some people, that is scary. but for those of us who are -- it is just the facts of how the world works. we are paying attention. i agree with that person's quote. it feels like when i see a friend of mines will, it's like,

go you. you touched a nerve, which means you are touching hearts elsewhere. that is what is important. jericho: camille's essay is about how to pay attention. thank you for it. i will ask you to read to read some of it. often we think about form as it relates to -- fiction. if you could read a little bit of your essay, i would appreciate it. camille: this kind of practice alters how you process your surroundings, needs your daily life. and how you write about that life that is part of the power of heightened perception, he

will be able to feel and say more in less time. consider how we react in a moment of crisis. people will say something like, felt like it lasted forever. that car crash lasted forever. it could only have been a matter of seconds. when you are in a moment of crisis you start to pay animal attention to the things around you. most of our lives, out a lot. your underarm deodorant is centered, but after the application, can you smell it on yourself? the new laundry detergent, the odors that linger in your kitchen. look around the room you are in right now, all of these smells, but your brain has likely tuned most of these smells out, we do not pay attention.

that is to be expected. we would be overwhelmed if we processed every sensory experience. unless something present itself in a new or surprising manner, i learned what not to pay attention to around me. and then -- i go on -- when you are in a moment of crisis, to pay attention to a lot more. you smell, hear and see angst you would have otherwise tuned out. what this means is you might take in what seems like 30 minutes worth of material in 30 seconds. you pay attention differently, more precisely. if you can start to practice this, you can begin to pay attention, all the time. by training herself to grab five minutes worth of data in one

minute. jericho: thank you. [applause] jericho: one second. you held up a 15, but we are done at 4:38. -- 4:30. ok. [laughter] it's ok. it's 4:07. tiphanie: as our gentlemen figures it out. jericho: i had it wrong? we are not done at 4:30. you did not hold up a 15. you are taking up my time. [laughter] tiphanie: come on, you are cutting into my time now.

i am teaching and environmental literature creative writing class this fall. you are cutting into my time. jericho: i'm sorry. i have a thing with time. [laughter] [laughter] tiphanie: my essay is on fiction forms and the importance on fiction writers to interrogate forms in the way poets have been trained. one of the most hot and familiar forms and the hero's journey. i have been in more than one classroom where the teacher has argued that the hero's journey is the only fiction form. that the hero's journey is a form that is in all cultures and can be applied to all stories. some writers and teachers have simplified this to say that all

stories are a stranger comes to town or a hero goes on a journey. i disagree with the idea there is one mono form for narrative. as i began teaching and writing within this form, it is racist and sexist, it became clear to me. but racism and sexism aside, claiming there is only one form is another way to tell fiction writers not to worry about other in winces and possible other interventions. a way to leave profundity to the poets, novelists and short story writers. why should we do that? here is one version of the heroes for -- heroes journey formula. traversing through the threshold, belly of the whale,

meeting with the goddess, the ordeal, resurrection, master of two worlds. this is one example of the form. this is a useful way to craft a story. this form, the heroes journey -- the hero go somewhere and returns. there is character development, though it is often stereotypical. the journey is focused on plot, which is why it works for plot heavy genres like fantasy. all you have to do is follow these steps. so many movies use this formula that many of us can predict how most blockbuster movies are going to go. it is actually a very western and male form. a form to express the adventure

and risk that has defined white masculinity. that white masculinity goes forth, it conquers, it brings the bacon, the sword, whatever, back home. further examination shows it is about white masculine coming of age. the hero is not generally married with children. this is not to say the form is bad. the form has inherent limitations. this is the pleasure of working within and against foreign. what if we push the heroes journey, what happens if we make our hero a woman, what happens if we take her femaleness into consideration? keep her journey looking the same as with the boys. does she need a goddess, or does she encounter her own self?

what if the hero is not young, does he lose because he does not have the strength and naivete? in my novel i work each chapter through a different form of fiction. i thought first about what the form is meant to do, and if it is diverted. what would happen if i put a young black man into this white male structural form of the heroes journey. i also asked what might this form have to say about black male coming of age. one of the things i figured out is that the loan black man does not often get to be a hero in our culture. in fact he is often for demised by prerelease -- police who tell a t. -- police brutality.

when we are a team, a collective, we are able to get to hero wisdom. i am pushing against the form. [applause] jericho: we have time for questions, if anyone has one. i think i am supposed to ask rob to come up, and not take questions. i do want to say something based on something both of you said in response to the questions i asked. writing is a solitary act. and so it can get lonely. it is nice to have friends. it is good to have friends, to beat part of a community. when you come away from your computer screen or your pen and

paper, something and somebody is there. you know this, if you are writing, when you come away from your writing. this is my house? do you understand what i mean? which is important to me about this book, about kirsten right -- hurston wright,, the they create for us, books do this, because they did this for me as a kid. books create community. it makes somebody who has and through what we are going through available to us. and it makes available to us somebody who is going through something we will never go through, such that we know what is available to the world.

part of what i love about this book is that it is a book that gives you a community. i am happy that i was able to be a part of that. it will take questions, thank you so much. [applause] >> we have microphones on both sides. the point of me having to ask questions, and me doing this is so you can ask him questions too. he has talked about working on this anthology. and not about his own work. go-ahead. >> i wanted to ask about the nonfiction side and how you incorporated that in the book. talked about fiction, i was interested in nonfiction. especially my writing is more centered around my professional work. and my journey and my career. jericho: that's a great question.

this book is interested in memoir, nonfiction, screenplays, fiction and poetry. part of the reason why i am excited to have tiffany and camille here is because they are writers without boundaries, writers without genres, plays, fiction and poetry. she is working on a nonfiction book now. camille writes essays, poems, she is an anthology. tiphanie is working on editing things. the book does get into nonfiction. there is an essay by ralph eubanks. it is ultimately an essay about places and mississippi, which

speaks to meet an important place in the black mind. if you have never been in mississippi, it seems to be part of your mind escape. what happens when i say the word mississippi to black people. it doesn't happen to everybody else. [laughter] i do think that is there in the book. the other thing it does, eight makes use of a poem by natasha troth away, to talk about how ralph eubanks goes about making his work. natosha is from mississippi, she has an essay where she is talking about place. much of the work i was doing in any genre, became easy for me because many of the writers in the book are talking to one

another without knowing they were. everybody mentions somebody else in the book. it makes me so happy. i hope that helps to answer your question. >> go-ahead. >> good afternoon. thank you to the library of congress for holding this event, and you all for being here. [applause] >> thank you. >> a two-part question. tiphanie, you indicated your mother was the first person to put your endanger, and the first person that delivered you to safety. did you resent your mother for that experience, how do you personalize that experience in your writing? miss camille, you spoke about construction and craft, how much time do you spent writing, or do you start with an outline or just start writing?

jericho: y'all got questions. [laughter] >> i felt vulnerable, you are making me say more. [laughter] the question is a writerly question. the way i am processing is through my writing. i have been asked, what are my themes? my answer has always been my themes are around belonging. i have said it is about the anxiety of belonging that comes from being from the virgin islands, are we americans, or caribbean people? we feel like we are locks -- lost and abandoned. what i recognized that i have been doing all along is talking about my mother. thinking about what it meant to have been abandoned by her when i was a baby and what that has

meant for me. both of those things were vital elements of my life. i did not experience resentment conscience lead towards my mother, my grandmother also held my mother up with empathy. i understood my mother had brought me into safety by allowing my grandmother to take me. but as an adult and to mother, i recognize there are times where i was in danger, by her inability to take care of me put me in danger. part of my work has been working through that anxiety that i will always have access to. it is in me. the writing has been a way to think through intellectually and emotionally. the thing i want to say before i

headed off to camille -- my mother was a writer, and so is my grandmother. they gave me their love of literature, poetry and fiction. they gave me both of those things. even holding me in danger and in safety is an important reality of being a writer. being able to hold those two things is where i meet my writing and make my way through the writing. [applause] camille: if i recall, your question is how long do i write? hours. [laughter] jericho: hours?

camille: it depends on what moment of my life you are asking me. when i was single and not a mother, i could have been 12-15 hours a day. i have a person that does not put up with that, it is her job. sometimes i get 20 minutes per day. my new nonfiction narrative started in the middle of covid when i thought i was going to be home. i wasn't going to have to teach. and then, no i am schooling a fourth-grader. that is what this year is going to be. i had 20 minutes a day that i could be by myself and -- the exercise i write about that saved me to be able to sit and to breathe and pay attention to

what was happening and recording everything that was going on for 20 minutes so that when i did have time, i have these records, as opposed to being, i remember that. i won't. or being so caught up in the words or ideas as opposed to having them rooted. wherever i am in my life, i will find a way to think like a writer and move through the world like a writer. i have had periods where it was two minutes a day. i was so traumatized, it was hard, and for two minutes i would write down whatever was worthy in a tiny notebook that i kept in my purse. that was all i had. eventually that adds up.

when i do have time, i can create the poem or essay from it. that idea that writers have hours a day, that also is racialized and class-based. in the 1950's, the major writers would literally leave their house in a suit and tie with a case and go to the office to write their novels. because the value this culture puts on our -- and order to have value, you have to treat it like an office job. but lucille clifton -- when people would ask her why her poems were so short, she said that is how long my children nap. [laughter] [applause] jericho: thank you.

i do write every day, but i know louise does not. [laughter] >> i want to thank you for the blessings that you are, you have lived many souls and encouraged many lives. my grandmother taught me to if people roses while they are living. i want to make sure i gave you your roses. i am here for a practical reason. i want to learn and get as many -- as i can. i have written my first manuscript. as i went on this journey, a foray into the literary world, you find out it is not diverse. many might say racist. $70 billion industry. one book can change your life. as i developed the manuscript, i

expanded into a series. 60 minutes to read for a lifetime of what you need. it is a series of book that incorporates hip hop, covering a range of wealth. i want to know, help plug be into literary agents so we can bring this to the public. [laughter] [applause] >> that is left -- is less of a craft question. tiphanie: i will say that it is not easy to get an agent. it took me years to find an agent. i got rejected a number of times. i was rejected for racist reasons. i'm not supposed to curse. [laughter]

so i want to say, the journey you are on is the journey we all have been on. the rejection is always part of gang and artist. i will also say that the way that many of us found our agents was through direct mentorship. in my case that meant going to literary conferences, taking a class with someone, we will not tell you your agent, our agent will be mad if we did that. but what got me my ancient, and i am -- my agent, is by being in men t ship -- menteeship where my mentor opens up opportunities for me.

that is my advice to anybody looking to professionalize, find the writers you admire and apprentice yourself to the writers in things like workshops. >> can i do a thing real quick? can you ask the question part of your question, very quickly? the question part of your question. >> i was wondering how do you reach out and break through into the industry? >> i am right behind you. our -- right behind you. >> how do you demonstrate you are knowledgeable about craft while separating it from the content? i have been someone who has submitted to agents and

magazines, what i will get is you are a great writer, make it mainstream. how can i demonstrate that i am knowledgeable about craft, without going completely mainstream to something that might be -- >> i will just do the question part. how is your experience with undoing as you uncover and recover your own black voice after having read a bunch of: iced writing -- colonized writing? and what is a source of stability and love for you right now? >> in a talk earlier,

inspiration is myth, either you will write or you won't. i want to know what your thoughts are on that. as people who struggle to get started. >> i do believe have to sit down. you have to sit down and do it, be it one minute or hours. the source of stability, mine is whatever mine is, you have to find whatever your sis. otherwise you do not have the strength to keep doing what you need to do and make the connections. finding the source of stability and trust and belief, the home in your community. that is crucial. jericho: i am sorry that we could not get to these questions. we have to do a book signing. if you ask us those questions

there, we will answer them. thank you so much for coming here. [applause] it is a good idea for you to five. you might want to go get this thing. inc. you. -- thank you. >> live coverage of the 2023 national book festival, the 23rd year that book tv has partnered with the library of congress to give you life coverage of the national book festival. it is book tv's 25th

anniversary. we are pleased to have both of those dates to share with you. more live coverage coming up in 15 minutes, you will hear a panel of authors talk about what food says about you. it is about food culture. in the meantime, we are pleased to have rain on us and author and historian whose most recent book -- it came out in november of last year. professor brinkley, how has the book done? >> really well, i have had more fun touring on the book then any book i have ever done. it is in the news every day, what are we doing on our planet,

hawaii is in utter devastation. people jumping into the ocean to escape the wildfire. talking about the environment, how did he get to the place where we have victories from the 60's and 70's. the clean air act, endangered species act, 50 years ago. it passed. the idea is, when can we have a new biomet regulation. a new wave where the whole country galvanizes around the menace we have now of co2 in admissions -- co2 emissions. >> you have talked about jimmy carter, richard nixon, jfk, etc.. >> you have observed the last

6070 years of history. a friend of mine called the current period the great realignment. i want to get your take on the last 10 years in american history. >> the ark was from fdr in 1933 until ronald reagan in 1980. a time where people believed the federal government was your friend. whether it was world war ii, social security, the highway system, the department of defense. reagan came in and it was a revolution that went to trump. it was more of a suspicion of the federal government, not to waste, balance the budget. and now we are in a time of neo-civil war. the age of reagan is over.

they are morphing with biden people. you have a new world order going on with donald trump and how he has consumed so much of the oxygen of our country. we do not know where we are at. this divide, al gore and george w bush down the middle. the florida recount, hillary clinton won the popular vote but trump came president. we have not been able to get out of that feud. i think the republicans are winning in the sense that they were able to get recent supreme court justices in. that has fueled an unraveling of the programs, roe v. wade, clean

air and clean water act. we are now in an aero where americans think less government is more. libertarianism is going on right now. on the other hand, if biden wins, we may be living in the age of biden. trump is eating all of the media up, but trump -- but biden might be a two timer. >> what does that mean? does this 50-50 have to break? >> it is not inevitable, but because we have been so defined as red and blue states, we know which will be red and blue in the next election. it is the same handful, arizona, georgia, virginia. there are others.

there will be five or six states that will determine things. the electoral college as it is now structured helps of the republican party. democrats who have population bases, california and new york may win the popular vote but do not win the presidency because of the electoral college. that creates frustration because people wonder whether democracy is broken. >> what do you think? >> i think the electoral college is here to stay for a while. you have to have a whopping majority in the senate to get rid of it, and if it is working for republicans, why would they want to do away with it? that is the rule of engagement. if you are the democrats, you have to make a defined strategy of winning the elect oral

college game map. spending a lot of time in wisconsin, michigan, the midwest. i think pennsylvania they do well, but there is a corrosion in ohio. wisconsin you cannot tell. iowa is turning red, florida is red. the democrats have to keep virginia and put north carolina in play. obama won north carolina, the democrats need to try to expand their attempts of winning. >> do you fear a separation? >> i do not, i think we are more united. on a local basis, people live day to day, we are doing well in our country, the economy is as good as anywhere in the world.

we still have great universities, research centers. but there are warning signs that are threatening. and it is the public's lack of trust in government. we are dealing in the press. when i was on walter cronkite, he left in 1981. it is down to 16% or something. congress, low marks, supreme court, polarized. presidents cannot get over 40%. there is a lack of faith in what government will. and yet we have a record voter turnout. it might just be that trump is going to be seen as a great disrupt there. he was expressing outrage for

people who felt they were marginalized. that nafta had brought jobs to mexico and left -- akron and flint dotted. there is a lot of public anger and dissent, that things have not gone as well. people are worried, only new immigrant treasurer the american dream. others find it is hard to attain. >> you have taught at rice, tulane, other universities. with technology. has education morphed, is a traditional four year college still a strong approach. ? >> in person education is essential. i do not want to deal with ai,

with lots -- with bots. a lot of education is about human interaction. you want to be in a classroom with students discussing the book, arguing over a point of history. this is not just my belief, online learning we did during covid was disappointing. a generation lost. there are colleges that are vibrant, expensive, there are problems of who gets in and who doesn't. but getting the privilege of getting to spend four years in an environment with others your age and learning about the world is the golden name in the u.s.. >> you mentioned the bookstore has been your favorite tour, the

most nourishing book tour. what is the favorite book you have ever written? >> i would have to say the wilderness warrior about theodore roosevelt. that got me going at looking at the role of president and conservation. i love the national parks and all that roosevelt did. i have expanded from the national parks and monuments to national wildlife refuges, national historic sites. on a preservationist -- that book brought joy to me, i am proud of the amount of research i did. theodore roosevelt, they are building a presidential library for him in north dakota which will open in 2026. it will be an event.

it is beautiful up there, he became a rancher, it will be built along the little missouri river, it was one of the special spots in my life >> one of your first books was about jimmy carter. are you still in touch with the family? >> yes, he will be 99 this boebert. when -- this october. when he had brain cancer, and the more recent announcement of him going on hospice. but he has a will, we write about presidents and their spouses, jimmy and rosalynn carter air -- are a unit. he works to make sure she is taken care of, that he is there with her.

it is one of the great love stories of presidential history. they knew each other since they were children. their journey to america to gather is something special. i am of the belief, because i have love for them both, they are around for the -- for a while, i believe he will make it to his 100th birthday. as it is he is the longest living president in american history. >> who is overrated, who is underrated? >> some of the people that have been underrated -- dwight eisenhower. he seems to have found a spot where democrats like him,

liberals, moderates and conservatives. his two terms are a great time of prosperity, he dealt with things like the interstate highway system, st. lawrence seaway, little rock. good and honest government, he is going up in my estimation and scholars writ large. andrew jackson is taking a big hit. he used to be one of the top five big presidents. a much more keen awareness of what the trail of tears was, what indian removal went -- removal meant. white fang, bloody side to andrew jackson and his disregard for black americans and native americans.

he has been thinking -- sinking by scholars. donald trump has praised jackson. on the right, he is having a renaissance. but in the presidential scholar world, he is moving downward. i saw a documentary on calvin coolidge, he is having an upward revision because like eisenhower, integrity matters. like jimmy carter. people will judge character as not just the defining thing -- some people said fdr would never let his -- he could make up stories. i am not talking about the moral right to tune. -- moral rectitude. but feeling it was honest and

you were treated like respect. >> we appreciate you spending a few minutes talking with us at the span. -- at c-span and book tv. >> the last panel of the day, this is going to be about food and culture and what it says about us. this is alive. -- this is live. daniela: it is nice to see everyone here, are you having fun? [applause] good, wonderful. welcome to the 2023 national book festival. a place where everyone has a story. i am book collections officer of the library of congress, it is an honor to welcome you. i would like you to ask you to turn off or silence your devices

and cell phones. if you need to leave the room in the middle of the presentation, the exit doors are behind the columns in the back. we want to notify you this event will be recorded, and your presence at this program constitute your consent to be filmed or recorded. thank you so much and enjoy the program. [applause] >> good afternoon, i am the director of the john w -- library of congress. this center is one of the sponsors of this year's festival and are proud to bring beloved writers here. we work to bring scholars to work in the library's collections. we are proud to sponsor this event and join with c-span as a partner. our next panel is dig in: what food says about us.

it features cheuk kwan, anya von bremzen, and daniela galarza. his new book is “have you eaten yet?". anya is an award winning author and culinary author. our moderator, daniela galarza is a staff writer for the washington post. please join me in welcoming them. [applause] daniela: high everyone, how is everyone? you had a good trip in? cheuk: yes i did. [laughter] daniela: i want to do a brief

introduction, if people had not read the books, i highly recommend them. national dish and “have you eaten yet?", i have fallen in love with them. i am enamored with the curiosity and depth you have approached the reporting. i want to do a brief introduction of each book, you will get into question, and open up to audience questions. we will call people up. anya is book -- anya writes, we have an idea of what french, italian, japanese, mexican food is. who decides what makes a national food cannon? a national dish seeks to find the truth about the national

cliche, you are what you eat, going high and low, in search of how cuisine became connected to place and identity. and “have you eaten yet?", stories from chinese restaurants all around the world. family owned chinese restaurants are global icons of immigration, community and delicious food. chinese restaurants are a microcosm of greater social forces. they are an insight into time, history and place. in his book, cheuk kwan, he weaves a global -- by looking history of stories who populate chinese kitchens worldwide. as i was reading this book, i realize how timely it is.

but books take years to develop. what an courage -- what encouraged you and why did you write the book in early 2020? cheuk: i made a documentary series called chinese restaurants, 20 years ago. at that time, people called it a landmark. using food as a trope. and then i was why don't you write a memoir, how you went about a world -- how you want about the world. during covid, i thought, i will do something like that.

i never knew i was a writer. i was an engineer. and so i thought, i will try my hand at it. and that is how it is. that is how the book came about. anya: my idea goes back a long time. i was a concert he and his in my past life. -- concert pianist. then i got a hand injury and wrote a cookbook that came out 30 years ago. it was about cuisines of the former ussr, where i was born, in moscow. it combusted, why don't you make your book a tarot calendar? [laughter]

it was like ok. i go back to those post-soviet spaces. you kind of see nations in the making in real time. and national cuisine. it was always in my mind, to do a project that has to do with food specific to national identity. the push that made me do it now was globalization was getting intense, i had burgers in uzbekistan, sushi in quito. but the intensity of globalization makes us seek out the roots. i was in this process -- two

sides of the same coin. it is interesting for me to look on this. -- see what they tell us specifically about how national identities are constructed. everything is a construct. we take things for granted but nations exist -- nations did not exist until the 19th century. daniela: both of your books touch on intertwining teams. one of them is identity. you write, at my table, we are passionate. we make gefilte fish for passover, and a ham for orthodox easter.

not committing to a single identity or place for identity. a life where there are no permanent bonds. that may be true for many of us in the audience, but food is crucial to our sense of self and sense of home. why do you think there is this push pull for a desire to cook for -- from a global pantry and argue about -- i call myself >> i call myself a car camry member of the chinese diaspora. i had middle school in hong kong, high school in japan, states for university and then canada and many places in between. i traveled quite a bit. but i see myself as crossing national boundaries, and

crossing cultural boundaries, as well as linguistic foundries. when i moved when i was 12, and i was 15, and coming to north america. all along, you can all get hungry after this talk. [laughter] chinese food is part of my upbringing. but along the way i was brought into other national food where i live. we talk about hamburgers in japan, way back. that is the kind of think that i carried myself and i started looking at food as the identity of a lot of people. i know she does that the reverse. i do it the other way around,

here is the food, chinese food. if i dump it into africa or south america, what would it become? what i see is stories of assimilation, add up tatian and resilience of the chinese diaspora of having to survive. only one of my -- i went to 15 countries. only one of my chinese restaurant owners was previously a cook. everybody else was not even close to a kitchen. that is how the survival that the chinese restaurants allow immigrants into a new country to survive and grow their family and become citizens. anya: what the original question is, why do we cling to dishes

that we think express our identity? globalization gets more intense, we have complicated identities. i was born in the soviet union, but i am jewish, i immigrated, i have an apartment in istanbul. one has a liquid modernity, this this cosmopolitan sense of oneself, and no with digital normalization, you see these little diasporas all over the world, but at the same time we have this intense urge to connect food to place, and food is the most visceral and immediate expression of something. of home, whatever that home might be.