at this time i'm honored to introduce the speaker for today. todd is both an offer and funeral f director. in fact, his family has been involved in that profession in delaware for four generations. the most recent book is last rites the evolution of the american funeral and todd will be speaking to us today about how abraham lincoln was at the center of the transformation of

american funeral practices both during his time in the white house and also through his tragic death. now, we will have a question and answer session at the end of the talk. there will be a couple of walking microphones. i would ask please take advantage of those because we want our c-span audience to be able to hear both of the questions and the answers. at this time i will turn it over to todd. [applause] >> thank you. it's my pleasure to present to you this evening. now we all know what happens good friday, 1865. but what i'mta going to talk abt this evening is about how the grand event of that was abraham lincoln's transformed and set the stage for the traditional american funeral, the funeral that americans would use for the

next century and a half. but in order to understand that, we've got to backtrack about four t years from the time that lincoln was assassinated so we are going to go back to the day that virginia held a referendum to ratify other articles of succession. and on that evening about 10:00, captain john sneed led three hand-picked companies from the washington rivals across the long bridge that separated washington, d.c. from virginia and essentially establish stable work for the union invasion of the south. they drove the pickets back into the countrysidemy at about midnight. the union army started invading the south. now down to the south near the washington navy ground the lunatic asylum, the 11th new york regiment was there and three of the companies from that

regiment were boarding and there were slide we'll paddle boats that were outfitted as gunboats and they were boarding the baltimore and the mount vernon and they floated down the potomac and at about daybreak they arrived at alexandria. colonel ellsworth hopped off the baltimore and headed up king street and secured the telegraph. coming off of the telegraph office across the street was a n in called the marshall house. and above the marshall house was a 40-foot flagpole upon which the secessionist flag that was so large it could said to be seen from the white house on a clear day with binoculars and the white house is about 5 miles away is so that is a darn big flag. and he explained to his

entourage he said it's got to come down and they raced across and into the marshall house where t he said to the clerk how do i get to the roof and the clerk just stared at him and said never mind. he raced up the stairs to the roof. they went into the back room and woke james jackson. james jackson was a secessionist and had a penchant for violence. he wants nearly beat a priest to death after consulting him and when the priest told the authorities, the sheriff landed out a posse and went to jackson's home and where he barricaded himself with his brother they began to fire upon the sheriff and essentially threw up his hands and said an assault charge isn't worth my life so he was a man that had a reputation for violence and when the clerk woke him and said they are on your roof taking down your flag, jackson grabbed a

shotgun and ran for the stairs. coming downio the stairs in the secessionist flag, ellsworth is wearing it like a cape and his plan was when he got onto king street he was going to tear it up and give it to his men and souvenirs. when hee saw that he didn't hesitate he leveled the shotgun and blew a hole through his chest. now francis brownell, he was a private. he didn't hesitate. he raised his rifle and as the enquirer would report, splattered his brains all about. we have the 21st happening here. the first one being ellsworth was the first union officer casualty of the civil war and was later awarded the congressional medal of honor so he became the first recipient of the congressional medal of honor for actions rendered during the civil war all habit in about

five seconds. now, word of ellsworth's death reached washington very quickly viagr the secure telegraph offi. ithere was a man who was an enterprising physician his name wase thomas holmes and he had a very unique skill set he knew how to and balm people and he hadki come down to washington thinking that this rebellion he wouldsh need to ship them home because the only way to was the adams express. the adams express would only ship human remains if they were either sealed in an airtight coffin or they were in bold. they are ramping up wartime production.

the metal is being used to make ammunition and weaponry so the two manufacturers of these metallic coffins were having trouble getting the material so if you could find one of these, they were going to be very expensive. so the only option at this point if you wanted to be shipped home and you were a soldier was to be involved. informed. the skill set that thomas holmes had. so, he knew william seward and he got an audience at the white house. they rushed over to the white house and found president lincoln and his office the second story that smell the lincoln bedroom today and president lincoln was in tears. ellsworth was a dear friend of his. he had been his clerk in springfield and he also served as his bodyguard during the inaugural train ride to washington. and doctor holmes said to him he

said mr. lincoln, i've come to secure your permission to and balm ellsworth so his parents might see him. president lincoln replied to him i do not know what an warming is. i do not grant this permission and through the urging he was able to secure the permission for ellsworth. at this time he was being transported back to the washington navy yard via james gray. he left the white house and went back to the house in georgetown where he would stay and he grabbed his grip and headed for the washington navy yard. when he got there he found ellsworth laid out in the engine

house. they were called the fire and that is because ellsworth raised a regiment all of firemen, okay, new york fireman. he thought these are men that rush towards fire. they are used to dealing with dangerous situations and they will make excellent soldiers. this was a type of infantry units used in the crimean war. there were no further aggressive tactics so they used different tactics than the standard union infantry soldier. so, that's why ellsworth was being autopsied in the engine house. it might be called the fire house today. it's where they kept the fire apparatus. so, after the autopsy was complete, holmes got to work using his proprietary fluid called and while he was in bombing ellsworth, the presidential carriage showed up at the navy yard and in it was

mrs. lincoln and she wanted to see ellsworth. now this was victorian times. ellsworth was undergoing a surgical procedure. it wouldn't be right so she was turned away. about an hour later the presidential carriage returns to the washington navy yard and this time the president is accompanying mrs. lincoln. he says to the honor guard i big permission for you to bring colonel ellsworth to the white house where we can have a ckfuneral ceremony before he gos back to his parents. so they bring ellsworth to the white house where he is laid out in the east room and about 300 politicians and high-ranking officials gather for a funeral ceremony. mary todd lincoln comments he

looks natural. he looks like he's only sleeping. now think about this. until this moment in time, a shotgun wound like this would have madee ellsworth, he would have been rendered on helical probably within a day. and here he is in the white house looking natural like he's only sleeping. it was asea if he had stood up n his head almost. by the end he had and owned 4,028 soldiers. but it was the death of ellsworth that essentially gave this cadre the green light to enroll during the civil war. after, many men mostly physicians flock to washington

toal then apply the trade of embalming and make their fortune. holmes was the first. so in order to understand the lincoln funeral a little bit we need to step back another decade and a half to 1845. this on the left he wrote essentially the first embalming textbook in the mid-1830s. here on the right in 1845 they set i've got a better way to do things. so they took part in this competition for the supremacy if you will. each and bombed a body.

he used aluminum salt and sulfate and zinc chloride and gases. you're saying what does this have to do with lincoln. let's be clear here in a minute. so they did this for 14 months and after they dug them up to see what they looked like. he was the only one that didn't show any sign of decomposition. so, now at this time he sent an agent to america to conduct the demonstrations essentially to license his methodology and also his formula of zinc chloride in america and it was licensed by a dentist in new york city by the name of doctor charles brown. so, let's fast-forward back into

the civil war. in bombing has become commonplace. commonplace for those that could afford it it's estimated that only 6% of soldiers were emboldened and sent home. this is doctor richard burr at camp lederman, gettysburg. here we have thomas holmes brother-in-law taken in fredericksburg and then over here this is doctors chamberlain and again camp lederman at these two gentlemen in the coffin they are alive. they had the exciting prospect of having their pitcher made. so those are models. so, let's now move to february of 1862 when a calamity robs the white house, willie lincoln dies of typhoid fever and this is on

mrs. lincoln's mind. he looks natural like he's only sleeping so they send for anna and ballmer. they don't send for thomas holmes, which i have never read anything definitive on why what ies suspect they would follow te armies. she calls on the firm of brown and alexander. the same that brought the ambling formula and he was temporarily at the oak hill cemetery in the family vault of

william carol. president lincoln would visit the tomb very often and is said to have offered on at least two occasions. now he was in a very metallic coffin similar to this one. this is an 1850s version, so by the mid-1860s there were two companies that were making these. one was out of cincinnati. the other was the w raymond company out of queens new york. nowsp i strongly suspect that he was placed in the version because senator daniel was wasan owner of that company. daniel was good friends with

president lincoln, so it fits to reason that if you're good but he owns a coffin company, then you are probably going to be using that coffin. now, let's move forward. three years after the death of willie, and we all know what happened good friday, 65. so, the following day when lincoln died, he was transferred from the peterson house to the white house under the direction of this man. he was transferred from the peterson house to the white house in a very plain wooden

coffin. this is just because of proximity they backed up the same alleys so that is why they were used to supply the coffin and he's transferred to the prince of wales room and the white house. now there were nine doctors in attendance for his cranial autopsy, so it was just a cranial autopsy. they didn't do the incision that would be a full autopsy, one of thoseil being the lincoln family physician, the otherhe being the surgeon general joseph k barnes. this was so herniated they didn't even have a proper perception kit. one of the surgeons offered up his own personal amputation kit forr the autopsy. now, after the autopsy, they

sent for the and ballmer and used brown and alexandernd once again and it is documented that when the messenger arrived, doctor brown, who is a very, very prolific and well-known and ballmer, he was at the office when the call came in for some reason henry now age 26 with no medical experience was sent to the white house alone to and bombed the president of the united states. he used the formula and injected five courts a bit through president lincoln's memorial

artery. after which he was dressed and shaved and left to lie in repose until his coffin could be made. it was made by an undertaker in baltimore. this coffin was lined with lid and white satin covered in black cloth fitted up meaning it was decorated with kind of the silver nail heads that you see, the handles, the fringe the undertaker i'd previously mentioned. it was built in essentially two different places. now, here is a replica of the history museum in history texas. you can see this entire panel most probably have seen it is on

a hinge on caskets of today. by design they could double the number of people walking by the coffin so having people walking by on one end, they are going by on both sides so they could double the people that were going to be viewing president lincoln. now, as i said this was custom-built to a length of 6-foot, 6 inches to accommodate the presidents 6-foot 4-inch frame. it is interesting though that that is the standard length of caskets these days because that is the length that can accommodate 99.8% of all americans without having to get a larger casket. this coffin costs the government $1,500, so about $24,500 in

today's money. now, on tuesday the 18th, folks were admitted to the white house to view the president and then on the following day wednesday the 19th, there was a private ceremony held at the white house, where 600 ticket holders were admitted. after that ceremony, the presidents coffin was taken to the capital where it was to lie in state in the rotunda. president lincoln was the second person to lie in state in the rotunda in the capital and the first president. now there've been 35 people to date that have laden state in the capitol rotunda. on the morning of the 21st, lincoln's coffin was taken from the capital building and taken to the train station.

the idea was to have essentially funeral where people could partake so the secretary of war edward stanton but we will do a trained journey back to springfield. it's going to go 1,662 miles, go through 400 for cities, towns, cross roads stopping 11 times to offload on this journey ending may 4th back in springfield for the presidents burial. now, his son was going to accompany him but he was never part of the funeral ceremonies in any cities. the coffin stayed on the presidential car the t entire time. just note lincoln's portrait, different locomotives used

throughoutut the journey but the same presidential car was used the entire time. this car was initially designed so the president could tour the country during reconstruction. it was hastily outfitted when the president was assassinated, so it was draped in the appropriate buntings and create of the time, but it was said to be very nice, sort of the polling card of its day. it had a sitting room, a parlor, a bedroom and wheels that could accommodate different tracks. interestingly enough, the president was rumored to have, supposed to be inspecting the car on the saturday he died. so stop one was baltimore and

this was his son robert and he rode from washington to baltimore about a two-hour ride, and this is the only lincoln family member to ride but was called to the lincoln special. that's what they called lincoln's funeral train. so, he wrote a grand total of two hours and that is the only time the lincoln family member rode the train. robert did later meet the entourage, the funeral entourage in springfield. and in baltimore, lincoln's coffin was taken to the exchange vibuilding where he was viewed r an hour and a half. so this is the shortest viewing time out of any of the stops and it's estimated that about 10,000 people viewed him during this time. so, from there he was taken to harrisburg where the party was metlu with a deluge.

he was taken to the capital. 20,000 people viewed him. and then from there the following day they stopped at lancaster. his coffin wasn't offloaded, but the predecessor james buchanan the 15th president was in attendance for the reception of lancaster. stop three in philadelphia it was reported that the train as it was coming into philadelphia almostny stalled because there were so many flowers heaped onto the tracks. now i find that very unusual and interesting because think about how much a train ways and how many flowers it would take to stall a train. but this is one of the pieces of the funeral that kind of changed american burial practices were funeral practices prior to the

lincoln funeral. flower offerings were made. flower offerings have been made since the antiquity, but mostly it was kind of a simple bouquet picked from somebody's garden and brought to the ceremony. the thought was of surrounding the ugliness of death, something as vibrant and nice-looking as an offering but also the practical purpose of covering up for masking the odors of decomposition, whichg ones and bombing came in was not really needed anymore. but after the lincoln funeral, we start to see these grand floral offerings. people were essentially mimicking what they saw during lincoln's o services in all the cities hee went to. this top one here is in columbus youu can see how it has loads of

flowers and then this one here is from a stop in michigan city indiana. these pillars here were decorated with flowers picked from hundreds of local gardens. so we see the flowers as part of this national morning. fraternities and social organizations. if the lincoln special stopped in your village and the coffin wasn'tak offloaded it was common for them to take the tributes onto the train. we see the emergence now the flowers are arranged to look at something else and crosses into common things that were taken as tribute to the slain president. after the funeral we see things get more inmate, the broken harp

string, these all become very popular floral offerings. but really they are kind of genesis, the originnc is with te lincoln funeral. now stop three in philadelphia, the ceremonies are officiated by an undertaker. at the hearse that he created for the event cost the city $4,000. roughly 73,000 in today's money. the remains were taken to independence hall, the assembly room where the declaration of independence was signed and the coffin was laid out so the head was symbolically pointed towards the liberty bell. so from a 5 a.m. on april 3rd to 2 a.m. on the 24th, so a period of 21 hours approximately

150,000 people stood in line to view the president. from there the lincoln special p went up to jersey city where t was put onto a ferry. the clock was2. stopped at 7:22. i couldn't find a pitcher with clock stopped at 7:22. this is a common superstition and that they were afraid that the dead wouldn't be able to passoi on to where they were going. they should know no time so they can pass freely into the next world. so pretty much every stop, all the clocks in the building were stopped at the minutes of his death and this was another very common superstition and one that

if they saw themselves reflected, they would realize they were dead and again they couldn't pass on. so, they would have been draped in all the locations. now, when the fairy arrived at t the station it was met by peter, he was an undertaker in new york. he dug the graves at the willard street methodist episcopal church and as such, he was often called the pond by new yorkers to handle the funeral arrangements because he knew how to do things to effectively very somebody. peter was a carpenterr by trade. on the morning of april 201st, a committee approached him and said the presidential funeral will be held here24 on the 24th

and we need you to build a hearse of the grandest magnitude that you can think of. so that's three days, 72 hours. so peter was up to the task and accepted into 72 hours he built perhaps one of the grandest hearses that were used in the funeral and employed 60 men and women around the clock for three days straight. the hearse was 14 feet long, 8 feet wide and 15 feet tall and pulled by 16 horses each led by a groom and for that to the city of new york paid $9,000 were roughly i think $165,000 in today's money. this was a common theme. all these cities would make a custom hearse to carry lincoln's remains, something they were trying to outdo eachnd other something grander than the

previous one and typically the coffin what is it about five or 6 feet off the ground so it was progressing through the city streets and everyone could see it. now the procession wound its way through the city until it got to city hall, where a chorus of 800 people singing created while the coffin was taken upstairs and laid outside of the governor's room in city hall. prior to the doors being thrown open for the public to come in and view, this man here, this is the brigadier general who was essentially acting as edward stanton's proxy during all this. stanton didn't come onto the lincoln special, and he allowed a photograph or by the name of omjeremiah to come in and photograph the president. now this is the only known

photograph that exists of the president because when mrs. lincoln agreed to edward stanton for the funeral train, there were a couple of conditions. one, no show be made of her son willie. number two, the president not to be photographed. while this hit the evening new york papers into stanton found out about it and he was furious so he ordered all the prints and the negatives of this photograph to be destroyed. this was located in 1952 by a 14-year-old boy who was combing through the papers at the collection at the university of iowa. this photograph came from lewis stanton so that is his son, gave it to john who bundled it up in these papers and they were eventually given to the

university of iowa so he couldn't bear this chartist momento so this was the only existing photograph that exists of president lincoln. now in new york in the herald estimated 150,000 people. general john who was essentially the grand marshal of things while in new york city estimated 100,000 view the president. it's likely that number lies somewhere in between. next stop in albany, doctor brown who is accompanying the remains along with frank sams they had to issue a statement because the new york press had shall we say so unkind about the appearance and they issued this statement to the press as we see lincoln moving further west we see the press

coverage becoming more favorable until when he finally arrives in chicago, "the chicago tribune" reports no corpse in the world is better prepared according to appearance. at the same time the president's funeral is being held in albany, john wilkes booth is killed. now, i thought this was a little interesting when i was down at the national funeral history museum they had this book here from thef secret service and i don't know if you can read this little corridor here but it says the book essentially contains the guarded truth that he wasn't found and executed as was believed by the public. now i am not one for conspiracy theories, but edward stanton did order a photographer by the name of alexander gardner to photograph john wilkess booth's remains and to my knowledge that photograph has never surfaced so a little food for thought.

we are going to jump ahead in cleveland the stop is notable because cleveland had the foresight to construct an outdoor forum and all the other stops the funerals were held in capital buildings or some sort of whole where they had to go through this way and that and cleveland had the good idea let's have the funeral outside we can get more people to view him so theyy created this chine style pagoda and in the days leading up to the president's arrival in cleveland the newspapers even printed ladies, pleasese do not put hoops in yor skirt so they could fit more people in line. they were expecting 120,000 people to view the president during the stop in cleveland. unfortunately, heavy rain and

something that seemed to plague the funeral train kind of put a damper on the crowd but 60,000 still braved the elements. we are going to jump ahead. i just want to point out it's kind of hard to overstate the amount of money they spent on sn decorating for the arrival of their leader this here is an archway the city of chicago constructed over michigan avenue 24 feet wide and 27 feet high. the cities spend so much money to welcome lincoln back to the city one last time. it'sow just very awe-inspiring d humbling to see how much the nation loved him. this is: jordan the local

undertaker to conduct while lincoln was in chicago. it propelled him into kind of he became the white shoe undertaker for chicago after this. he did later conduct the funeral for carter harrison, the mayor of chicago that was murdered during the world fair in 1887. this is the grand curse that he constructed. it's interesting because on top of it is i a taxidermy bald eag. you can't see it in the photograph years so i put the drawing and it. now, in chicago the funeral procession comprised of 40,000 people in the procession alone so it wound its way from the michigan avenue station to the

cook county courthouse where lincoln was laid out in the courthouse interviewed for 26 hours and 150,000 people viewed him in chicago. after that, he was taken back to the train station. it was nighttime by torchlight which i think is very romanesque because the had their funerals at night so it wouldn't interfere with commerced and in fact the word funeral was from the latin word that means torch. the final stop after chicago was back in springfield and this is where lincoln was going to be buried.ng now this is the only surviving photograph of the springfield hearse. it was destroyed in 1887 in a fire that also claimed the lives

of three people and eating horses. now, springfield had spent all their money decorating for lincoln's arrival and ran out of money. so, the mayor of st. louis offered to generate the hearse to springfield in springfield accepted. so it was owned by a man of the name of jesse arnett. he owned a service in st. louis. this was actually built close by in philadelphia. it was made by a famed coach builder billy rogers and it cost about $6,000 at the time. now, that was reverse engineered for the 150th anniversary of his death p. he rebuilt this using correct

techniqueses and they had a l downloadable brochure on the website. if anyone is interested in finding out how they did it, it's really interesting and what they came up with is just beautiful but this is essentially what lincoln's remains were conveyed in and this is also interesting because it is one of the few stops where his remains were conveyed into a hearse not something that was custom built for the occasion like so many of these other cities that had a lot of money to throw at this were able to do. after lincoln was viewed one last time in his hometown, he was buried here in oak ridge cemetery. now those of you that have seen the link into the room say what's this. this is the receiving at oak ridge.

it was very common for the cemeteries at this time to receive coffins during the cold months when they couldn't dig, the frost was too, hard for thm so they would store folks in the receiving end is until the spring fell. so the lincoln monument not even having been really started or thought about at the time when he was taken to oak ridge, he was placed in this receiving vault until his final tomb could be built. the reverend david simpson who is the bishop of the methodist episcopal church said during his chemical such a scene as he is returned to you was never witnessed among the eventsto of history.y. there've been great processions. there was one for the patriarch that came from egypt and they wondered if the evidence far

more have gazed onto the face of the departed man that have ever looked upon the face of any other departed man. more have looked upon this procession for the 1600 miles or more by night, by day, by sunlight, don, twilight and day. so i thought that was very, very fitting because counting it up at each stop, 880,000 americans t cast their eyes on president lincoln. that's not even counting the millions of americans that were present in the city streets as the coffin went by orth that lyg claimed the tracks when the lincoln special spread by. there were vast swatches of wilderness as the train went by that would usually be pitchdark

but people on the train would say it was almost like it was gone because people would build these bonfires out near the tracks to catch a glimpse of lincoln's train as it went by so they could be part of something. stand together in the solidarity. now mr. lincoln wouldn't rest in peace. he would be moved 13 more times from his initial entombment until he was finally buried one last time 1901. his b coffin would be open six more times to view him. and there was even a failed grave robbing in 1876 when the grave robbers managed to get the lid of the sarcophagus off and expose his coffin. that's why in 1901, he was

buried in a cage 10 feet deep covered completely with concrete to prevent any future grave robbing's and he is buried under the floor of the memorial hall. now rumor started to circulate at this time 1901 and he did on the end bowling. no one knows where these rumors came from, they were circulated by the newspapers. he'd been dead for a year at this point so they didn't come from him but that is patently false. henry, age 26. very quickly to wrap up, let's look at the effects of the lincoln tragedy and how they shaped the american funeral for the next century and a half. so these are the elements of the american, early american funeral and they were based on the 1644 directory for public worship of god's dataset no funeral services should be said and no prayers should be held so the

colonial american funeral the remains were washed at home, dressed by the family. to ensure that the person was in factal dead, there was no embalming then and really the only way people could know if somebody was dead was by the signs of decomposition. the remains were cough and and a piece of string would be taken to your local carpenter who would make custom coffins for burial. there would be a procession. for the first half-century nothingor was said and that was the american funeral. in 1683 we see the first funeral ceremony for a man by the name of adam's was a pastor in roxbury massachusetts. the funeral sermons would be preached at the sunday services, not the date of the burial so they wouldnd be preached after t not necessarily that sunday

afternoon it would be a sunday orst two. the first instance of t that is 1770. hehe was one of the colonial magistrates you might be familiar he came to take part of the salem witch trials. we see the american funeral changing, and i'm not saying the lincoln funeral invented this template, but it was to use a chemical term the activation of energy the kind of spurred a lot of these changes. definitely an bowling came into vote. think of all the people 880,000 people that saul president lincoln and their thought was if it's good enough for the president, it's good enough for me so we see it as a practice explode in america after the civil war. flower attributes in the interest of t time i already touched on that so i'm going to kind of breezeway that. the visibility, think about all

these grand hearses i talk about that each city tried to outdo themselves prior to the civil war. they were something almost frivolous, people trying to scratch out of existence in this neww world and having a specialized vehicle to convey the dead was not needed because mostt people were burying folks in their yard or the town common somewhere they could walk so after the civil war with the advent of the cemetery we start seeing these cemeteries out of the city centers, oak ridge where lincoln was buried was one of these outside of the city limits and it appeared to the sense of people going to sleep so being buried in a rural cemetery as they were called was an endorsement fore this type f

cemetery. all of a sudden americans wanted this type of burial. they didn't want to be buried in these crowded church yards jammed into city centers. they wanted this rural setting for burial. emphasis on the casket coffin we start seeing a couple things one being the mass production of caskets and then the advent of the casket so no longer are the local carpenter's kind of knocking something together and then is certainly the grand coffin that was paraded before millions of people all of as sudden there is an emphasis in the funeral right of the coffin and then later the casket. postmortem photography has kind of a golden age from the 19th century until the turn of the 20th century where the modern medicine and personal camera

kind of make the postmortem photography go the way of the horse and buggy but certainly, lincoln being, photographed, te photo being published in the puberty and everyone knowing it kind of created this bows about postmortem photography. we see the victorians adopt this overt morning and it wasn't just her. it was the other families of the 650,000 soldiers that were killed during the civil war. most of them were never seen again. and so this was a time of national mourning. and the victorian people they

adopted, this type of overt mourning they held on until there was a national crisis and americans cast mourning just as quickly but mary todd lincoln was definitely leading the charge and the americans are looking to her saying she's doing it. if it's good enough for the first lady, it's good enough for me. h so that is what i have for you this evening on the grand funeral of president lincoln. thank you very much. [applause] >> any questions? how about if i start out by testing and i do have a question for you. thank you for this presentation. it was wonderful and very

inspiring. they took the trip and represented all the slaves that had been taken and went through the caribbean and came up and joined our relationship at christiana river and stayed there for w a week. the weather was beautiful. so full ofme love, just amazing. to give prayers, rabbis, pastors, fathers in this small town. i during that one section it rained.

i went to apologize to him and he was crying. in our country when it rains it means god is pleased with your work. so it wasn't plagued by rain, it was blessedy by rain. it was written 70 years later but it references lincoln when they talk about the pledge of allegiance. and also that the flag should lie with the stars on the left

shoulder on the coffin but i saw flags on the train and was curious how else was the flag changed during the funeral? >> i honestly don't know and i didn't come across any references or photos of the flag on lincoln's coffin. it was a prominent symbol you see them wound around the purses that were used and draped as there would be bunting on the hearse but i never did see anything about the flag on the coffin or read anything about those ordered to half mast or hr anything like that.

i just wanted to know what were stops eight and nine. >> it went indianapolis, chicago. >> they basically had their entire face cast into a mask that was then preserved. was that every tuition in the u.s.? >> several presidents had death masks made to my knowledge president lincoln was not one of them but they never really took off in america as they did in europe.

so you didn't need the death masks because they could hold the remains for a period of weeks for folks to come and view it. they were viewing the president to two and a half weeks after he died and seeing his likeness they didn't need a death mask and they were created in europe for the funeral ceremonies. they could be held so far in a period of weeks until they could collect the members of the royal family that often times what they were displaying was in effigy. nature was running its course and they could not.

>> that was a fascinating talk. well done. you mentioned that lincoln was the second person to lie in state in the capital. remember who the first was? i grew up between two cultures. one doesn't allow anybody to be kept more than two days and kept the body for sometimes two to three months.

so to get to understand the perspective but i also wanted to say when it rains it is a blessing. they are signing the green light. how do you see this with of the considerations and now the future growing forward with services? >> to the history of the american funeral, there's nothing constant. if you look at snapshots whether

itar be 50 years or 100 years starting with the first jamestown settlement, and go back and look at these snapshots, the american funeral is constantly changing so the one thing i can tell you is the funeral 100 years from now won't look like the funeral today. are there new forms of dispositions that are emerging or gaining popularity like alkaline hydrolysis a natural reduction, yes. the technology is certainly playing a bigger role and definitely kind of spurred by the pandemicno when we had to ue the technology so i see that as something that is here to stay.

what its role is going to look like in the future, i don't know. it's certainly something that is being kicked around and that virtual reality for everyone. holograms is another one that i hear kickedt' around a lot so maybe that will be part of the experience. and then there's also a lot of talk about virtual memorialization in the meta- verse. so instead of going to the cemetery and buying a headstone like people have done for several hundred years, maybe you buy land in the meta- verse and have a digital memorial. >> we will find out together. >> she they are all buried

together, yes. >> why do they open his coffin? i think you said six times. >> to ensure that it was him. there were so many threads of his coffin being essentially held for ransom that a lot of times when they moved him they would peek into make sure that it was him. the zinc chloride worked so well that when it was opened for the final, time in 1901, the condition of i want to say there were 17at or 18 people that vied him that final time along with his son robert he was in a remarkable state of preservation for those that viewed him in 1901.

>> he left immediately after the civil war and was a lithograph or for a short amount of time and then joined the metropolitan police where he retired from and he never talked about in bombing lincoln until the rumors that thomas holmes surfaced in 1901 so he finally broke his silence 37 years later in 1901 to talk about the end bombing of president lincoln and that's the first time he spoke about it publicly. >> one more question. thank you for your excellent remarks. the shortness of the visitation in baltimore was there a security concern related to that? >> i haven't read anything but i strongly believe that it had to do with of the southern sympathies of baltimore and perhaps the security issues around there that they wanted to

keep things as short as possible but never read anything definitive as to why it was only an hour and a half. >> it's been a fascinating presentation i think everybody would agree. i know there are probably other questions but we do need to cut off the main cause at the time that we've said before into some people may have places to go but we certainly thank you. this has been a fascinating presentation. thank you very much.