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seeking you -- mea com whroong with these television companies supports c-span2 as a public service. >> joins us now on booktv is author richard here's his book go big the marketing secret of richard a.vigry. what do you do for a living? >> mother went to her grave not understanding really what i did. i was fortunate back then 1960s, early 60s to pioneer political direct mail. people have been raising money for a long time. and they've been raising it money through the mail for charity, church, et cetera nobody had combined two politics and the mail. and i did that in the early 60s for about 20 years i had no competitors, and i -- you know went out there and helped build a conservative movement i can make a case

without direct mail there would be no conservative movement worthy of the name. when i i did my pioneering workn the 60s left wasn't doing it now they're ding a better job than conservatives are. >> have you always been a conservative even when you're growing up in texas? >> i grew up outside of houston, and kids in the neighborhood playing cops and robbers you , know 11, 12, 13 years old i'm shooting --oo i don't know i have no recollection of any political conversation in my family, my extended family, but i came to knowing communist are bad people and dedicated to, you know, fightings them opposing them. i'm second generation conservative. firstve generation bill buckley russell barry goldwater et cetera 100% of conservatives -- jerry myself, et cetera, before we were conservatives first we were anticommunist that was the glue that held the conservative

movement together. in those days back in the 60s, 70s, 80s. >> what was that moment that burning bush moment for you when it came to direct mail and mailing lists you were visit the national office in new york city. >> look, the -- i was fortunate in i had two week summer camp national guard and military base out of chicago, and the first and only saturday we were there for the two weeks everybody goes into chicago. richard stays in the bare barracks and reads national review and i saw a small interview for americans for constitutional action. and no longer exist -- but i had a friend a buddy who worked ifri or national view, a journalist, writer there so i could hear the cannon and guns going off in new york and washington, war was starting and i was desperate to get into the

battle and fight the political left here in america. and so i called my friend and david franky and said david i've got to get one of those four not four it it is is one a blind ad to run young americans for freedom and i said david get me that job. i got the job. [laughter] and for about a year and a half i moved to new york. and i came in contact fairly regularly with bill buckley and frank myer and bozell and james i read everything i wupght make a lot of progress so at one point i made a conscience decision -- to focus on direct mail. we didn't have enough people like buckley who could write in debate and we have some. we had nobody they could market them to the country. soco literally i went to my wife by then i had a wife and two babies. ian said honey i think i've got something that's going change america maybe even change the world but i don't know it. i have to study it could i be

relieved of all household duties no trash, no yard work and she bought into it and seven, eight years i went into direct marketing direct mail and if this was a microphone of the country conservative message went up against blockage, we couldn't get a message out we were the tree that fell in the forest and starting with direct mail we could go around this blockage right intoro people's homes and that changed everything. ....g. nomination in 1980 without direct mail, because when john connally and george h.w. bush were getting the thousand contributions, he was getting hundreds of thousands of ten, 15, $25 contributions funded campaign made all the difference. mr. viguerie what makes an effective direct mail letter? talk about one that you've written. well direct mail is used to be, until recently, the second largest form of advertising in the country. television number one now is number three, because the

internet, internet's number one, television number two. direct mail is number three. and i recognize that early on. and i recognize that early on. i write a letter that goes through a million people i write it to one person. that onein person i have in mind i'm writing that letter too. cooks for most of my political it was my parents my mother and dad. they would occasionally give. to someone who always gives or neverr gives. and somebody who occasionally gives you have someone have a conversation with. bill buckley famously said he was a conservative but not of the breedrd or set a night hangg out.ap et cetera. i am of the breed. my faith is catholic as long as

most catholics i'm going to mass when you stand up, kneel down i'm in the front row. going to applaud i am one with the audience. that makes a huge difference. i am a true believer. >> many of your letters and those of us who have been involved in the media or politics over thed years they e often one line paragraph then three or four pages. and they repeat. whatat is the effect of that? >> one ofir the many reasons i like direct mail as i don't have to guess does this worker that work? the short paragraph and it has been tested billions and billions of letters.

it will out to a seven-page letter. but they scan it. look at this, look at that. you would never give a salesman selling a refrigerator but you can only speak 200 words or 400 words. you speak until you make the sale. so short words. if you read the new testament jesus words they're almost all one and two syllable words very to three in before he was very shortt words and short paragraphs, follow me et cetera. so you went long letters but short words, short sentences, shortay paragraphs. and let me just say at my age i will be 90 in a few months i literally spent two hours a day studying marketing, advertising, business i've done that for over

60 years. quick still today you do that question as i have already spent probably 45 minutes in a setting marketing. young people are interested in marketing advertising career i tell them study, study, study, read, read, read. competition is not that serious out there quite frankly. most billet marketing and advertising have not done a lot of sitting. if you studied the classics out there the giants who have come before us can get to the top of the marketing and five years to give me the top 5%. >> e-mail social media benefited your business? >> not really in a major way. when i got involved in 1961, the earlyai 60s fundraising through the mail was not a auteur business a bit out there it's very auteur now. every fortune 500 company has a

direct marketing division, a department. so we know what works in direct marketing postal we dealt with the internet. we will figure it out it might be tomorrow, it might be five years from now. we have not figured out how to market on the internet yet. there's a lot of young people who are trying it. they knelt next to nothing about marketing they know the internet they do not how to market it. we are still in the exploratory stage in terms of learning how to market using internet. i expect to go big. you talk about the four of marketing, differentiation, benefit, and brand. briefly describe those for arc. >> nothing original without it all. i borrowed from this, stole from that et cetera put it together in a package which really, really important. i urge our viewers it doesn't really matter in life whether

you're running for office or you want a promotion, you want a job, you want a raise, you what a spouse and pray tell people idated my wife there is a lot of competition for this pretty young ladies hand in marriage but had to separate myself from all that competition out there. position number one is a hole in the micro marketplace. aar hole in the marketplace can occupy? that's a private decision, differentiation is what you do publicly to let everybody know what you're hole in the marketplace is. i like to use msnbc or fox television. they both have a position, they have a hole in the marketplace they both differentiate you speak tucker carlson and now it's bret baier and jesse watters and laura ingraham et cetera on fox. rachel on msnbc.

you don't find this type of people anywhere else on television. third is a benefit you got to your market to your audience yougot to get all for right. if you get all for right it's downhill of it to get one wrong you'll be up here not likely to see. box to their audience succeeds. they have information you do not get anywhere else outl there and until recently they have a little competition but previously there is no competition for decades. same with msnbc. fourth is brand and brand is the ballgame. one is a combination of position differentiation it is what it makes you singular. what makes you in the words of the famous communicator a purple cow. live out in the country 40 brown cabs there, 50 black-and-white wins over there you cannot tell one from the other but if one is a purple cow it stands out. all of her goal in life is to be a purple cow. i have not figured out how to squeeze a fifth went in there.

a fifth is called a tag you want a tagline. when you come up with a tagline it should be short and summarize what you do that differentiates you from everybody else oute. there. anybody else in your tagline throw it away. it has nothing to do with how much smarter you are or faster or how high you jump or your better or anything else it's something that relate differentiates you against all of the products out other candidates. if you are running for office your name doesn't say if you're liberal or conservative. what to tagline it. the most effective tagline in the last 40 years has been make america great again. that tagline separated trumper n 2016 for everybody else out there. you want that tagline. we had a well-known governor of virginia who said you do the crime you do the time. it's a tune you can whistle. reagan 1980 are you better off

now than you were four years ago? you want the tune people can whistle in a tagline. see what have you found an effective to use strong language against your opponents negative ads, work well on tv even though everybody? >> it's not necessarily strong words. i read something for the umpteenth time recently about truman is that give them harry i don't give them that i tell them the truth and i think it is. i think it's important to differentiate yourself from your competition whether it's in the primary or theon general electi. even if it's you are a nonprofit you want to separate yourself from all of your competition out there. he went to explain in a few words what you are doing. it used to be people were

exposed to 1000 may be 2000 messages aay day. now it's five or 10,000 with the internet we are just on and dated. you've got to succinctly in a few words identify your brand and brand is when you own a category. i am a brand i own a catacombs of first to ever do political direct mail was the second person to fly solo across the atlantic? you don't remember, you remember the first you want to be the first in the category. >> what surprised me and reading go big as you were talking about how liberals or the others have superseded the conservative movement when it comes to direct mail. even they basically started it. >> i did my pioneering work as i said early in the 1960s, i caught a lot of criticism quite frankly got regularly attacked on nbc, abc, "new york times,"

"time" magazine. all through the 70s. but all of the criticism stopped within a few hours election night november 1980. so i told my conservative friends at the heritage tfoundation, howard phillips ad many others who used to get together my home for my breakfast every wednesday for 10 years it's taken me 20ow years o learn how to do that is going to take them 30 or more years because i am smarter than they are, not so. within five years at roger craver and others on the left have caught up with the conservatives now they have far surpassed us in my opinion. i would notan dream of flying in it airplane he had the skills of an average marketer. most people have learned by their gut feeling. none of us would go to the doctor to learn medicine by the

skin of their pants. the liberals basically have single issues organization conservative about 1500. they raise 70% more money than we do with one 100% more donors. >> you talk about them as organizations, correct which or what? >> i'm a big exponents of not third-party but third force. liberals have 20000 issue organizations out there. think about if obama called a meeting about liberal environmental groups 300 or 350 groups representedth there. if conservatives did the same every five, six, seven groups represented there. each of the groups have their own agenda, their own source of money, their own membership, their own leadership and pulling everyoneip to think what they he

accomplished not just the democrats but the republicans to people mostly their way on most of theirnd issues. so the politicians not only set the agenda the third and fourth organizations. conservatives only 1500 we really, really are far behind. one of the reasons i wrote the book was to encourage mostly younger people you get to be my age or in your 60s, 70s even your 50s your dna is pretty well set. the very definition of an entrepreneur is a risk taker. so that's going to come from younger people 20s, 30s, 40s. i want everyone especially conservatives read the book get engaged. i think it's veryy important. nobody was banging on barack obama's door to run for the

senate or the president or he did it himself. 2007 and 2008 he's describing himself as a community organizer. a year later he is president of the united states. donald trump was a business meant no priore' experience 15 months that he is president of the united states but i urge young people kick yourself the way for someone to come knocking on the door but when i came to washington at all these ideas and energy. on this at all this knowledge is going to waste i called a meeting and people came. i called meeting awake later and more came i learned early on something nancy pelosi learnt also she's climb in the democrat leadership ladder. you'd be surprised to make good people come to your meeting if you serve good food. [laughter] i serve good food all the sudden this or invite me too their meetings. kick yourself, have courage to be a risk taker, be bold.

>> host: could liberals pick up go big and learn things? >> unfortunately yes. [laughter] nothing i can do about that. it is good advice even if you aree not just into politics. if you want to get a job, get a promotion, start a business, get a spouse. you want to differentiate yourself from all theom competition there's a lot of competition out there. this book will help you differentiate yourself from there.dy else out stu what i want to talk about some of the people you write about.wh beginning with charles edison who was he? >> charles edison was one of lights life's great human beings as fortunate to know him in the early 60s. he washo the youngest son of thomas edison the inventor. he'd been secretary of the navy, governor of new jersey. on the last 10 or 15 years of

his life he was very active in the conservative cause and movement. he was quite wealthy and very, very generous with his contributions. and so very supportive i ran young americans for freedom. oneic day we had a small officen the fourth floor no elevator. on madison avenue in new york city i'm working at my desk abou' 2:00 p.m. and the afternoon and look up there's charles edison at 75 years old he had walked all the way from the waldorf-astoria towers, 15 blocks just to boost morale and encourage us in all of that. he was a delightful wonderful man i called him on the phone when i first started and asked him for a contribution he gave me a contribution on the phone. called a few other people like him captain eddie of eastern airlines world war i hero jay howard pugh of the oil company they all gave me money

generously. i started writing letters. stu went talk about that a little bit. cold calling people on the phone voice to voice' >> that is not many. it was not me in the 20s it's not me almost 90 i do not like people asking for money. what you will write them a letter. >> and started writing letters and that seemed to work. and so i got a secretary they would write more letters and then hardly any of your viewers understand his mimeograph machines big rolled drum it would print a few hundred letters an hour or something like that that seem to work. then i got something computers nobody heard of in those days we started spitting out letters and after about a year end a half at buckley the young americans for freedom i began to focus entirely on direct mail. after a year end a a half i

thought i knew everything to know about marketing. so i quit eight good job hung out my shingle and begin the first world direct mail political advertising agency. i thought i knew everything i knew nothing, nothing. 1% of what i know now. one thing i knew i did not have was names and addresses. i was able to 12500 barry goldwater donors and that changed everything. byen the end of that first years or my company 1965 at 100,000 republican goldwater donors and now we are well past 10 million donors in the conservative movement. and i recognize early on with the business i was not in fundraising too much or marketing i was in name acquisition i think mark zuckerberg figured that out too. stu what have you gotten rich in

your business? >> i have not as a matter fact. i live very comfortably. but to this date my team will testify under oath i put everything possible back into the company. every fiber of my be linked being i'm an entrepreneur. as i said earlier the definition of an entrepreneur is a risk taker. so, to this day i put everything up got available back in the company. the reason i do that is a 1965 asserted my company in january.m out to various conservative organizations pray there's a few of them out there seven got goldwaterndest' donors and thens do a test of 5000 we sent that dollar 90 cents a dollar and 50% of the money comes back you are investing in the longtime value of that donor. in those days when i spent about two, three, four, $5 would come back that this is great so we

mail 50000 letters those results came in at the same as 5000 will mail 500,000 everyone said no let's just mail another 5000 bird i said no there down the street we've got to go they said no 5000. at that moment i said okay i want to save western civilization but i know what to do salty little do. i will finance the mailing i'll put up all this mail. to this day the vast majority of our clients finance their mailing everything i can possibly get from the company and put back to finance more growth for the conservative movement. >> host: who wasas right 5,005,000? >> neither millions and millions and millions will be mailing something like 300 million folks letters. he went someone else's been very active in the conservative group you write about morton blackwell who is izzy? >> i donated the book too.

he's a very goodns friend note n the conservative movement is prevent on the national level except for every conservative except lee edwards who is zero zero one. there goldwater, and roberson recently all dead. i've been active at the national level long then everyone except doctor edwards. lee is a different i've known since 1961. he calls another phone bases let's have lunch with that young conservative you need to know him. he doesn't know you we had a nice lunch. i liked him so well i invite them back 10 days later jesse and i. the end of the lunch morton said i spoke magic words to him the d magic words i spoke to him morton i want you to come work with me and help me build the conservative movement. and atki that point he would tae it a pay cut i gave him a pay

increase. [laughter] after some years he left and ended up working for ronald reagan in the white house. and then after that he left and started something called the leadership institute. there's almost no organization i can think of of the conservative movement than leadership inserted that trained well over quarter of a million young sepeople, many, many governors, senators, congressmen, legislators too numerous to mention. right now, as we speak he is my president of my company i am the chairman of my company it is in jerusalem with four, five, six of the national conservative marketers. he is teaching a couple hundred people in europe conservatives how to be effective conservatives. he is maybe 500 or more classes all over the country the leadership institute teachers each year.

he has had more impact on the conservative movement than anyone else i can think of it. stu in the book is called go big marketing secrets and as someone said before rush limbaugh there was richard. we appreciate your time. >> good to be with you. ♪ if you are enjoying book tv sent for our newsletter is the qr code on the screen. to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions book festivals and more. book tv every sunday on cspan2 or any time online at booktv.org. television for serious readers. ♪ this fall watch c-span's new series books that shaped america. join us as we embark on a

captivating journey and partnership at the library of congress which first create a book that shaped america list to explore key works of literature from american history. featured on the series won awards, led to significant societal changes and are still talked about today. hear from featured renowned experts who will shed light on the profound impact of this iconic work and virtual journeys through significant locations across the country intricately tied to these authors and the unforgettable books. among our featured books common sense by thomas paine, huckleberry finn by mark twain, their eyes were watching god. and free to charge by milton and rose freedman print watch our 10 part series books that shaped america starting monday september 18 at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span doubt free mobile video app or online@c-span.org.