the profound impact of these iconic works and virtual journeys to significant locations across the country, to celebrated authors and their unforgettable books. among our featured books, common sense by thomas paine, huckleberry finn by mark twain, their eyes were watching god, and free to choose by milton and rose freeman. watch our 10 part series come books that shaped america starting monday, september 18th at 9:00 pm eastern on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video apps or online, c-span.org. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story. sunday, booktv brings the latest in nonfiction books and authors, funding for c-span2 comes from these television companies and more. including media.com.

>>.com we believe whether it is here or here or way out in the middle of anywhere you should have access to fast reliable internet. we are leading the way. >> media.com along with these television companies support c-span2 as a public service. >> host: joining us on booktv is author richard viguerie. 's book is "go big: the marketing 'secrets' of joe viguerie". what do you do for a living? >> my mother went to her grave a few years ago not understanding what i did. i was fortunate back in the 1960s to pioneer political direct mail, people have been raising money for a long time and raising money through the mail for charity, churches et cetera. nobody combined the two. politics and the mail.

i did that in the early 60s. for 20 years i had no competitors and i went out there and help to build a conservative movement. to make a case without direct mail there would be no conservative movement worthy of the name. when i did my pioneering work in the 60s, now they are doing a good job in the conservative market. >> where you a conservative when growing up in texas? >> i grew up in texas, right side of houston and kids in the neighborhood playing cops and robbers, 11, twelve, thirteen years old. i'm not shooting robbers, i'm shooting communists. i have no recollection of any liberal conversation in my family, my extended family, i came into the world going communists are bad people, dedicated to fighting them, opposing them. i'm second-generation conservative, first-generation bill buckley, russell kirk, barry goldwater, etc.

. 100% of second-generation conservatives, jerry falwell, myself, et cetera. before we were conservatives we were anti-communists. that was the glue that held the conservative movement together in those days in the 60s, 70s and 80s. >> host: when was the burning bush moment to you that it came to direct mail and mailing lists, visiting the "national review" office? >> i was fortunate in that i had two week summer camp, national guard, military base out of chicago and the first and only saturday we were there for two weeks everybody goes into chicago with the "national review," so a small ad, and inch or two for four field directors, americans for constitutional action, it no

longer exists but i had a friend, a buddy who worked for "national review," journalist, a writer so i could hear the cannons and the guns going off from new york to washington, the war was starting and i was desperate to get into the battle. so i called my friend, david franky and said i've got to get one of those jobs, he says it's not four, it's one. it was a blind add to run young americans of freedom and i said get me that job. i got the job. for about a year and a half i moved to new york and came in contact fairly regularly with william buckley and frank meyer and brent bozell, giants out there, james burns abraham which i try to be like them, i read everything i thought they were reading, not making a lot of progress. at one point i made a conscious decision to focus on direct mail. we didn't have enough people like buckley who could write an debate but we had some.

we had nobody that could market them to the country so i literally went to my wife, by then i had a wife and two babies and said i have some things that change america, maybe change the world but i got to study it. relieved of all household duties, no trash, no yardwork, she bought into it and for 7 or 8 years i made a deep dive into marketing and direct marketing, direct mail and if it was the microphones of the country in those days, the message, the new york times, abc et cetera, couldn't get the message out. starting with direct mail, going around this block into people's homes and it changed everything, ronald reagan wouldn't have got the nomination without direct mail, john connolly and george hw bush, thousand dollar contributions, 10, 15, $25 contributions, that made the difference. >> host: what makes an effective direct mail letter?

>> guest: direct mail used to be until recently the second-largest form of advertising in the country, television number one. now it is number 3 because of the internet. the internet is number one, television number 2. i recognized that early on and when i write a letter that goes to a million people i don't write it to a million people, i write it to one person to one person in mind that i'm writing that letter to. >> host: who is that one person? >> guest: for most of my political life it was my parents, my mother and my dad. they would occasionally give. to write to somebody who always gives, it's not a challenge whenever gives, somebody that occasionally gives and you have a conversation with them and bill buckley famously said he

was a conservative but not the breed, saturnine, hanging out with john dahlberg, truman capote etc. . i love the breed. my face is catholic. as long as catholics go to mass and quite sure when you stand up and kneel down, i sit in the front row. i am one with the audience and that makes a huge difference. i'm a true believer. >> host: many of your letters, those who have been in politics over the years have received these and they are often one line paragraphs and three or four pages and they repeat. what is the effect of that? >> one of the reasons i like direct mail is i don't have to guess that this works or that works because we take many letters, split it in half,

500,000, short paragraphs and 500,000 get long paragraphs and it has been tested, billions of letters so we know that a good, long, 8-page letter is going to out paul or good 7-page letter up to a point, the more pages, people say don't read that, they scan it, flipped through it, look at this and that. you would never give a salesman a refrigerator, you can only speak 200 words or 400 words, you speak until you made the sale. so short letters, short words. if you read the new testament, jesus's words are almost all one or 2 syllable words, very few three and four syllable words, he used very short words and short paragraphs, follow me etc. . so he wrote long letters, short words, short sentences, short paragraphs.

and let me just say at my age, i will be 90 in a few months. i literally spent two hours a day studying marketing, advertising, business, done that for over 60 years. to this day i spent 2 to 3, i spent 45 minutes today studying marketing and young people interested in marketing, advertising career, i tell them study study study, read read read. competition is not that serious out there quite frankly, most people in marketing and advertising haven't done a lot of studying so if you study the classics out there, giants who came before us you can get to the top of marketing and in 5 years you can be the top 5%. >> host: has e-mail and social media benefit your business? >> guest: not in a major way. when i got involved in 1961,

early 60s, fundraising through the mail was not a mature business. it had been out there for a little bit. it is very mature now. every fortune 500 company has a direct marketing division department so we know what works in direct marketing, we don't with the internet, we will figure it out but might be tomorrow, might be 5 years from now but we haven't figured out how to market on the internet. a lot of young people are trying it, they know next to nothing about marketing, they know the internet but not how to market it so we are still in the exploratory stage in terms of learning how to market using the internet. >> guest: you talk about the 4 horsemen of marketing, differentiation, benefits and grants. briefly describe what those are.

>> guest: nothing original, borrowed from this and that but put it together in a package which is important and i would urge our viewers it doesn't matter in life whether you are running for office or if you want a promotion or a job or a raise or a spouse, i tell people, when i dated my wife, a lot of competition for this pretty young hand, pretty young lady's hand in marriage so i had to separate myself from the competition out there. position number one is a hole in the marketplace. what hole in the market place can you occupy? that the private decision. differentiation is what you do publicly to let anybody know what your marketplace is. i could use msnbc or fox television. they both have oppose-ish and, a hole in the marketplace can both differentiate, used to be

tucker carlson and now bret baer and jesse waters and laura ingraham on fox and rachel maddow on msnbc, you will find those types of people on television. 30s benefit. to your market, to your audience, get all four right, life is downhill, then get one wrong from going uphill you are not likely to succeed. fox to their audience succeeds for a benefit, they offer news, information you don't get anywhere else particularly a little competition but previously there was no competition for decades, same with msnbc. fourth is brand and brand is the ballgame. one is a combination of position, differentiation and benefits, that makes you singular, what makes you, in the words of a famous communicator, a purple cow,

regularly passed fields of 40 cows, can't tell one from the other but if one was a purple cow it stands out. all our goal in life is to be a purple cow. i haven't figured out how to squeeze a fifth one in but there is 1/5 one called a tag line. you want to tagline, the tagline should be relatively short and summarized what you do, differentiate you from everybody else and if anybody else can use your tagline, throw it away. has nothing to do with how much smarter or faster or how you jump or better or anything else about something that differentiates you from all other products out there. if you're running for congress, your name doesn't tell you if you're liberal or conservative so you want to tagline, the most effective tagline in the last 40 years has been make america great again, liberals will acknowledge that, that tagline separated trump in

2,016 from everybody else, you want that tagline. we had a well-known governor of virginia who said you do the crime you do the time. kind of a tune you can whistle. raegan 1980, you better off now than you were four years ago? you want a tune people can whisper. >> host: have you found it effective to use strong language against, negative ads work well on tv even though everybody says they hate. >> not necessarily strong words, i read something for the umpteenth time about truman, the people you say give them hell, i don't give them hell, just tell them the truth and they think it is hell and important to differentiate stuff from your competition whether in your primary or general election or even if you

are a nonprofit, separate yourself from competition out there and want to explain in a few words what you are doing, used to be people were exposed to a thousand, 2000 messages a day, now 5, 10,000 with the internet, succinctly in a few years, to own a category. who is first to fly solo across the atlantic, who was the second pope, you want to be the first in a category. >> host: you were talking how liberals or they superseded. when it comes to direct mail even though you started it.

>> guest: when i did my pioneering work in the 1960s, regularly attacked on nbc, abc, all through the 70s. all the criticisms in a few hours. election night, and that what is had been up to. i told my conservative friends at the heritage foundation, many others that used to get my home for breakfast, don't worry, it has taken me 20 years to learn to do this. it will take them 30 or more years, smarter than they are, not so. within five years, others on the left caught up with conservatives and now they have far surpassed us in my opinion. i wouldn't dream of flying an airplane with a pilot who had

the skills the average conservative marker, most people learned it by this. the seat of his pants. the liberals basically have 20,000 organizations, conservatives, 1500, they raise 700% more money than i do. >> host: third or fourth organizations. >> guest: i am a big exponent of third force organizations, they have 20,000, single issue organizations out there. think about obama, former president obama called a meeting of all liberal environmental groups, 350 groups represented there. the conservatives did the same there would be 5 or 6, 7 groups

represented there. each of these groups out there has their own agenda, their own source of money, their own membership, their own leadership and pulling everybody, think what the environmentalists have accomplished not just with democrats but republicans, independents, fooled people mostly their way on many of their issues. the politicians don't set the agenda so much as the needs third force organizations, one reason i wrote the book was to encourage mostly younger people. when you get to be my age or in your 60s, 70s, your dna is pretty well set. the very definition of an entrepreneur is a risk taker, so that will come from younger people, 20s, 30s, early 40s.

i want particularly conservatives to get themselves to lead. no one was banging on barack obama app store to run for the senate rather president, he picked himself. in 2000 -- in 2007-2008, describing himself as a community organizer. donald trump is a businessman, no prior government experience, 15 months later he is president of the united states. i urge young people, pitch yourself, don't wait for some buddy to knock on your door. when i came to washington i had all these ideas, energy, nobody invited me. i said all this knowledge going to waste, one day out of frustration i called a meeting, a dozen people came. i called a meeting a week later, more came. i learned early on something nancy pelosi learned also, climbing the democrat leadership liner, you would be surprised how many good people will come to your meetings if

you serve good food. i served good food and all of a sudden they started inviting me to their meetings. pitch your self, have courage, be a risk taker, be bold. >> host: could liberals pick up "go big: the marketing 'secrets' of joe viguerie" and learn things? >> guest: unfortunately yes, nothing i can do about that, yes. it is good advice even if you're not in politics. the four horseman of marketing, if you want to get a job or get a promotion, start a business, get a spouse, you want to differentiate yourself from competition, a lot of competition out there, this book will help you differentiate your self from everybody else out there. >> host: let's talk about the people you write about in "go

big: the marketing 'secrets' of joe viguerie" -- "go big: the marketing 'secrets' of joe viguerie," tell me about that. >> guest: the youngest son of thomas edison, the inventor, had been secretary of the navy, governor of new jersey and in the last 10, 15 years of his life, he was very active in the conservative movement, quite wealthy and very generous with his contributions. so i ran young americans for freedom in the early 60s and one day we had a small office on the fourth floor, no elevator, madison avenue, in new york city, at 2:00 in the afternoon. there is charles edison, all the way from the waldorf-astoria, to boost morale and encourage, a delightful, wonderful man. started asking for

contribution, gave me a contribution on the phone and called a few other people like him. eastern airlines, world war i hero, and the oil company, they gave me money generously but i decided to start writing letters. >> host: talk about that a little bit. cold calling people on the phone, voice to voice. >> guest: that is not me. that wasn't me and my 20s and it is not me at almost 90. i don't like people asking for money. i started writing letters. i got a secretary and then i got something hardly any viewers understand or remember or know about, a mimeograph machine. a few hundred letters in our. and something computers,

spitting out letters, with buckley's "national review," began to focus on direct mail. after a year and a half i thought i knew everything there was to know. i started the world's first direct mail political advertising agency. i knew nothing, less than one% of what i know now. i knew i didn't have that and that was names and addresses and i was able to get 12,500, barry goldwater donors and changed everything. by the end of the first year in 1965 i had 100,000 goldwater donors and well past 10 million activists in the conservative movement.

i was in fund raising or marketing, and name acquisition of mark zuckerberg. >> host: have you gotten rich in your bill? >> guest: i have not. i've lived very comfortably but to this day, the team will testify that i put everything possible back into the company, every fiber of my being, an entrepreneur, a risk taker, everything available back in the company. the reason i do that is 1965 i started my company in january and went to various conservative organizations, just a few of them out there, they all agree and now spend one dollar and 50% of the money

comes back because you invest in long time value of that dollar, they come back. and 500,000. and mail another 5000. it is 5000 and i said i want to save western civilization, i know what to do so i tell you what i do, finance the money and to this day of the vast majority of clients, we finance so everything i can get from the company for more growth from the conservative movement. >> host: 5000500,000? >> millions. in the next 18 months or so.

>> guest: some >> host: someone else who has been interested in the conservative movement. >> host: he is a dear friend, and known in the conservative movement as 002, active at the national level longer than every living conservative except doctor lee edwards in 001. barry goldwater and william buckley and brent bozell senior, robertson recently, all dead. at the national level longer than everybody except edwards, since 1960 one, on the phone one day said let's have lunch with this younger conservative, nice lunch at the mayflower, and invited morton back, 10 days later for another lunch. at the end of the lunch morton

said i spoke magic words and the magic words i spoke to him was morton, i want you to come work with me and help me build the conservative movement and taking a pay cut. after some years, and up working for ronald reagan in the white house. after that, he left and started the leadership institute and almost no organizations in the conservative movement, they trained well over 1/4 of a million young people, many senators, congressmen and numerous conventions, he gives that as we speak, my president of my company, kathleen patton, national conservative marketers and teaching a couple hundred people in europe how to be

effective conservatives. he has maybe 500 more classes all over the country the leadership institute teaches this year, and more impact on the conservative movement than anybody else i could think of who is living. >> host: the book is called "go big: the marketing 'secrets' of joe viguerie," and before rush limbaugh there was richard viguerie. we appreciate your time on booktv. >> if you are enjoying booktv, sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on screen to receive the schedule of upcoming programs, otter discussions, book festivals and more. booktv every sunday on c-span2 or any time online, booktv.o, television for serious readers. >> nonfiction book lovers,

c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to non-fiction authors and influential interviewers on the "after words" broadcast. on q and a here wide-ranging conversations with nonfiction authors and others making things happen, and a weekly hour-long conversation that regularly feature fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. the about books podcast takes you behind the scenes on the nonfiction book publishing industry with insider interviews, industry updates and bestsellers lists. find all of our podcast by downloading the free c-span now apps or wherever you get your podcasts and on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. >> live on sunday, september 3rd on "in depth," otter and essayist mary eberstadt joins booktv to talk about religious freedom and the sexual revolution america.

she's an expert on christian culture, the author of many books including its dangerous to believe, how the west really lost god, and adam and eve after the bill, revisiting an update to a 2012 book about the social change brought about by the sexual revolution of the 1960s. join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments and texts. "in depth" with mary eberstadt live sunday september 3rd at noon eastern on booktv on c-span2. >> this fall, watch c-span's new series books that shaped america, a captivating journey in partnership with the library of congress which first created books that shaped america list to explore key works of literature from american history, the 10 books featured

in our series, have won awards, led to significant societal changes and are still talked about today. hear from featured renowned experts who will shed light on the profound impact of these iconic works and virtual journeys to significant locations across the country tied to these celebrated authors and their unforgettable books. among our featured books, common sense by thomas paine, huckleberry finn by mark twain, their eyes were watching god, and free to choose by neilsen and rose freeman. watch our 10 part series books that shaped america starting monday september 18th at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video apps or online, c-span.org. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, citizens are truly informed, a republic

thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span powered by cable. >> in the past 25 years, booktv has been on the air over 1300 weekends, covered 900 book festivals and featured 22,000 authors including this event. >> and his doctor, doctor benjamin waterhouse, who had been a friend of the family for years, and who became the head of harvard medical school, wrote a wonderful letter to john quincy adams who was then president of the united states. and that he said this. as was his material frame, his

mind was still enthroned. if you read that, you go way back to the summer of 1756, when john adams was 20 years old, 1756, 20 years short of the summer of 1776. and he was teaching school in western massachusetts which was than the frontier, keep in mind that in that time two thirds of all of massachusetts were still forced. two thirds of pennsylvania were still forced to. the largest building in america was nassau hall at princeton. civilization was just a little rim along -- european civilization, american, western civilization a little rim along the coast, only 50 miles deep. it was a vastly different world not just from the present but from europe. here he was with what he

thought was the frontier teaching in a 1-room schoolhouse, miserable, he knew he didn't want to be a schoolteacher and his father thought he would be a minister. that is how he got, why he got his scholarship to harvard. he decided he didn't want to be a minister, wasn't cut out for that. he decided he wanted to be an attorney, a lawyer, to get into public life. on the night of august 22nd, a sunday 22, a sunday, after having attended church all day which was to be a lifelong habit for john adams, he went out under the stars. so inspired by the sermon, he said, and also, in a state of euphoria. and a feeling of relief, the decision not to become a

minister, was at last resolved. he wrote of the glorious shows of the nature overhead and the intense sensation of pleasure they evoked. beholding the night sky, the amazing concave of heaven, sprinkled with stars, he was thrown, he wrote, into a kind of transport, and knew that such wonders were the gifts of god, expressions of god's love. but the greatest gift of all, he was certain, was the gift of an inquiring mind. he would become a lawyer, but of all the provisions that he, god has made, for the gratification of our senses, are much inferior to the provision, the wonderful provision that he has made for

the gratification of our nobler powers of intelligence and reason. he has given us reason to find out the truth, and the real design and true end of our existence. it will be hard, he wrote, meaning the studies that were still ahead of him, but the point is now determined. i shall have the liberty to think for myself. >> all 92,000 plus hours of booktv programming is available online, just visit booktv.org to watch programs on your favorite authors. .. ?