good afternoon.

my name is dr. matthew costello and i serve as the vice president of the david improvements site national center for white house history and senior historian for the white house historical association. it is a pleasure to be here with

you all today. and i'm very excited for this panel. we have a great collection of talent, expertise, knowledge to approach this topic, and i'm very excited to share the stage with all three of you before we get into that, i would be remiss if i didn't at least add a little fun historical anecdote to the session. so i found this one. i thought it was pretty amusing. i think maybe you'll agree. maybe you up on november 6th, 1947, president harry truman held a press conference in the oval office. you know, in between questions that were revolving around brain exchanges, there was inflation, price controls and also the marshall plan. one reporter piped up, mr. president, have you seen any good movies lately? truman answered, well, i never get a chance to see a movie unless they bring one to the white house. and about the only thing i see are newsreels. i try to go when i am not in

them, so i guess that was funny. in 1947, truman's quip touches on one subject that we will discuss today with our panelists. presidents in newsreels in real life are very different from the presidents portrayed on television and in film. these cultural mediums reach and educate countless americans, people around the world. but the office of the presidency, this inevitably leads to the questions of accuracy, authentic city, as well as how defined should these boundaries be between history and entertainment? joining us for this conversation today, we have lilly goren, professor of political science and global studies at carroll university. gloria reuben acclaimed actress, author and tammy haddon of adapt media. so to get us started, you can read more about these exceptional individuals in our program. we have the full bios, but i did

want to start by having them each talk a little bit about their backgrounds, their expertise and and the perspectives that they're going to bring today. so why don't we start and we'll just move down the line, okay? i'm i'm lilly goren and i teach political science and political theory and gender and politics at carroll university, which is in waukesha, wisconsin. and i have spent a lot of time in terms of my own scholarship and research as a sort of trained political theorist, looking at texts to understand what texts teach us about our understanding of politics, society, culture, gender. and so i started off doing this with regard to a guy named shakespeare who was a popular culture writer at the time. and i have sort of evolved my scholarship in terms of paying close attention to popular culture narratives, particularly in television and film, where i am looking at a lot of the time the same way that would look at a shakespeare play. what the text is teaching us,

what do we understand about ourselves, our politics, society, gender, or from those popular culture. so i'm gloria reuben as matthew mentioned, i'm an actress and a singer and an author. many of you might know me from a television show called e.r. that's all. but no, that's not why. thank you. but i i know that you're surprised that i still look the same. but i'm here today to talk about my portrayal of elizabeth keckley in the film lincoln and we did have a screening at the white house when president obama was in the white house and daniel day-lewis portrayed lincoln. tony kushner wrote script the screenplay and steven spielberg direct did the film. so as you can imagine with that trifecta and sally field was mrs. lincoln all of us involved deepest oracle dives everything is authentic, authentic because because that's the only way that

daniel and tony and steven would have it, myself included. not like i had to say. i'm just but i'm very, very much looking forward to telling a little bit more about the amazing elizabeth keckley. hi, i'm tammy haddad. i am a longtime political producer. i worked at every cable channel you've ever seen producing larry king live, fox news sunday today show, msnbc, you name it, and then on this side, i started getting calls to consult on films and tv series about presidents and politics and maybe you've heard of some of the shows veep, film all the way come formation. and i was actually just on capitol hill with a former director for an upcoming netflix show i'm so glad to be with all of you don't you love this place? is it a great thank you to. well, i'm glad that you all could be here today. you certainly know more about

this than i do. and that's why i am the moderator. so i'm looking forward to you enlightening all of us. you're different experiences. and i'd like to start first. gloria, you mentioned your role portraying elizabeth keckley for the acclaimed film lincoln. and i'm going to pull up the image here. who can you start by telling us more about who elizabeth was how this role came about, and how you prepared for it? well, i see that image and that time talk about authenticity, literally. elizabeth keckley was invited by the lincolns to go to the opera and that that shot was taken from that scene. her life really was extraordinary. she was born into slavery. her biological father was the master of the house. and clearly giving you a broad overview. many things happened between these markers, if you will. when she was a teenager, maybe 13 or 14, she was given as a wedding gift to her half brother, one of the illegitimate children. so for he and his wife, they

left virginia, went to north carolina while elizabeth was a slave to her brother. she was, you know, unfortunately, much unfortunately raped by a neighbor and she gave birth to one and only one, an only child named george cato, who a number of years later, elizabeth and george are now in saint louis. and elizabeth is a slave to another illegitimate child by this time, elizabeth is not just supporting her half sister and that whole family because unfortunately, her half sister's husband is not very good with finances, etc., etc. but elizabeth has not now sold. she has garnered an extraordinary list of clients, not just because of her incredible talent, but also because of who she was as a person. her whole energy. she was extremely graceful and and gentle. she was a queen with all the time.

she was very respectful. she dressed in her own designs, always looked beautiful. she always had held her head high, even though she had been to mixed trauma for pretty much her whole life. eventually, elizabeth really for herself, but especially for her son, is diligent in getting and becoming free. she wants she needs to be she wants her son to be free. she goes to her sister and asks her sister for freedom. and her sister says, if you pay me 1200 dollars now, elizabeth's one of her main clients here is on this situation. and she, elizabeth, is so well respected in that community that this one client asks other clients many. these are all high society women, politicians, wives to raise money for elizabeth so she can buy her and her son's freedom do so. elizabeth pays back the women

who want who would like their money back. but the ones who gifted the money. she's very grateful to do so. her her son by time goes to wilberforce university in ohio, elizabeth keckley moved to washington, d.c., opens up her own business here in washington, d.c., not that far from here, 10th, 17, 12th street, northwest. and she, one of her clients immediately because of her letters of recommendation from saint louis gardner, there is another group of high society politicians, wives as clients. and one of them says to elizabeth, i would like to set up an appointment with you and the soon to be new first lady elizabeth keckley meets mary lincoln the morning of the first inauguration, march 4th, 19 oh 1918 61. the next day, elizabeth keckley is hired by mary lincoln to be her personal, modest and elizabeth ends up being her confidante.

now, during this time, very soon after the president is sworn in, very soon after the lincolns are in the white house in february of. 1862, william lincoln dies of typhoid mary. lincoln is bereft. of course, it is the second senator lincoln's who has died. elizabeth keckley is very much a part of the lincoln white house. obviously, the civil war is happening at this time. mary lincoln always been highly emotional, volatile and president lincoln, of course, is very busy trying to deal with the civil war. and elizabeth becomes almost again that confidante that close with the lincolns, both president and mary lincoln, and with their sons. but at that time, it's elizabeth keckley who consoles mary lincoln, and this is what binds them in their friendship that went on for not just the time that the lincolns were in the white house, but beyond.

elizabeth keckley is the one who prepares little boy for the funeral. she is the one in the room when president lincoln this is all president lincoln walks in and says goodbye to his dead son. six months prior to this, elizabeth's only son, george, who could pass as white, signed up to fight for the union in the civil war. it was premiums patient proclamation. so legally he wasn't because he was a mixed race. he was a black man, but he signed up because he wanted to fight for the union. that's how much? he believed in freedom. he died in his first battle, was buried in a mass grave. elizabeth was never able to marry his son. that preparing little willie lincoln was the connection that she made with mary lincoln. they agreed to their sons together, and that was the bond that created this. this is this friendship that,

oh, please, god help me that i'm making into a film. elizabeth keckley and mary lincoln. there's a book that i have the rights to gentrification. her wrote one of the many books that i did research on mrs. lincoln. mrs. keckley, the unlikely friendship of the first lady and a former slave. now, when i got the got the call to audition for this role, and i'm embarrassed to say i didn't know anything about elizabeth. i had a day and a half to prepare. steven spielberg wants go on tape, and'm like, okay, daniel day-lewis, no pressure. and a day and a half great. no problem. so i of course, i google everything that i can and as soon as i read that one page of wikipedia emotionally, i connected to this woman. i don't need to go into detail, but i just connected to her fortitude and her faith and her overcoming trauma and all of it consistently looking. standing up for things that need to be stood up for and so i go

on tape a day and a half later in the scene, and it was clear that tony wrote that this particular scene, because it was masterful. it wasn't one of the scenes that ended up in the film. the scene is with elizabeth keckley and mary lincoln, and it's almost like a monologue because elizabeth is talking about her life. and in the scene it's written that elizabeth is sewing and this is kind of audition 1 to 1. you never bring props. you never bring props. but i got props. i just i had my instinct was i just there's something i just felt like i needed to have my hands busy and i'm paraphrasing was on this page. i bought a silk scarf or something and a needle that was already threaded because there was no way i was going to try to thread the needle. so that was ready. but i'm very prepared in these things. and so, you know, talking to me and again, i'm paraphrasing, but i wanted to have my hands to do something because my son george,

he died last year he fought for the union. he has a beautiful wife. i got the part so after. yeah, thank you. my research included, many things i went to wear like months i read up on planned and i went on and documented my research road on elizabeth keckley. i went to the places that were still standing where she lived, where from virginia to from north carolina to virginia. a couple of the places i know historical sites because of elizabeth keckley. but one thing that i am, the first place i went was here and i'll never forget it. ten, 17, 12th street northwest brownstone where she lived and worked there. so i walking down i'm turning the corner it's all corporate

buildings going, oh, well, you know, maybe one of those corporate buildings. nope. the brownstone is still standing two this day. i was just. i took photos of it. it was for sale at the time. there were lawyers offices in there, what have you. i called the realtor up and i got some hot spot. i called a realtor. i'm doing a little research on someone who used to live here. super vague. this is 2011. i was just wondering, you know, maybe someone can let me in. and he gave me the code to get into the building. i'm not going to tell you who the realtor was. and i went in. i walked through those floors where elizabeth keckley lived and worked the whole place needed to be redone. and you could see the brick, the original brick through the wall. it was the one of the most profound things walking through that brownstone, walking on the ground where elizabeth keckley walked, walking through the white house when we had that screening with president obama, i i'm not joking. this is it was a profound

spiritual experience. i kid you not if i was meant to do this role. and again, i hope to one, i have three projects that i want to do before my end days and not sounding macabre and i just hope. and the story of elizabeth keckley and mary todd lincoln is a story that needs to be told. it's not about slavery. it's about freedom and faith and fortitude, strength and yeah, so that's all i got. so. thank you so much for sharing that. and also giving us sort of a i mean, i don't know about you guys, but i felt like we were it was kind of like we were watching the movie in real time. the incredible tammy, let's move over to to you, because you have a different experience. right. you mentioned working as an executive. executive producer, being involved in being involved in so many different projects.

the one that i wanted to focus on more was the hbo film the way. so can you tell us a little bit more about that proct what was the process like and how in your experience, how did isompare toth films or other projects that you worked on? well, bryan cranston, i mean, come on. and he was on. did anyone see the play? i hadn't seen the play on broadway. you guys saw it. so unbelievable. so the idea of putting it on film after it had this long in credit history, i just felt so lucky to be connected. so what i what i did was take the director j. roach, great jay roach and his production designers and and took them to do them to all the rooms on capitol hill. his original lbj original office there we went down on the house floor. and it's funny because the person that took us around, he's since left, told us this story

about how they used to vote. you. and now there's little buttons. you guys have probably been there, but you used to walked down and they would tap and then put up and you would vote and drop it in. and, you know, there's nothing. you just had gloria's point it the more real it is, the more success it's got to be true. that's how life is. that's how it is in film. and the time that these film directors and producers and stars looking into and really taking the time to catch, the feeling of it. and even in, you know, being in the can and building and i then i brought them over to the white house, to the vice president's office. and again, you guys probably know this. the vice president's office, the old executive office building, you know, you open door and all the vice presidents have signed it. so we did that. and you can see, you know, how moved. they were and then we went to the vice president's balcony that looks out on the mansion.

right, looks on the actual white house. the white house. and you could just feel the history all around you. so that's the key thing. the other thing we would do is talk to we brought them together with some of the people in. there weren't that many that had worked. the lbj administration and just to hear them talk about what what they were like and the families legacy, there was a little bit of a conversation about the family family legacy. and it's funny when we did when we finally did the premiere here in d.c., we did it over at the archives and they pulled out the bill of rights, you know, like it's you. you just can't you can't step away from the import of the history and understanding this country, how people live who these people were and what they had to face. what you're talking about, i mean, i saw the film, honestly, that's you got to make that movie. who would watch that? i would watch that, right.

if we're all going to be that way. but in that that's why it's it's it's critical what you're doing and it's why it's so good. everyone's here because you got to know. and i work on the comedy side. i worked on veep and these other and comedy. it's even more important, i would argue that it's funnier when it's completely true, period. right. and eric lester, you guys heard eric speak, right there's eric right there at that. when we worked on veep, they send the scripts and you look at and, you know, you had this whole thing that because like you're dealing with big people, like i'm dealing with jay roach. oh i'm going to tell him to move the camera here or i'm going to tell these veep writers, go do this or that. and you really have to think about i mean. and then we would always just say, well, this is how this is how it actually is. you guys decide how you want to show it. you know, i should mention that even though our panel focuses more on film, all of our panelists also have experience

working in producing and researching television programs as well. gloria, you were also cast as. valerie jarrett, who served as the senior advisor to president barack obama in the showtime series, the first lady. can you tell us a little bit more about that role and the fact that, you know, we have these two different roles you know, it's television versus film. yeah. tell us a little about that because you've done both does that change your preparation or process for preparing? well. not so much. i mean, this is a yeah, it's the wig. i wasn't going to say anything. but yeah, she just i loved that. i love it was so much fun about valerie ms. jarrett. i don't know. i call about i just couldn't help but right. but it is as you know, it's different way of going about work because of the schedule on television. and, you know, it's you only have so much time. you got a lot of work to do and not a lot of time.

so there's that. but also it it is a little bit pressure to play someone who is still walking the earth, you know, because you just you, you know, you just want get it, right? yes, exactly. but i loved of course, you know, how important and now it was jarrett was for the obamas. obviously it's in chicago days and the kind of relationships she did have with --, she does have with michelle and the former president, of course, the relationships are still extremely strong. she's now ceo of the obama foundation. but there you know, it was a very intense time. and the way that because it again, the limited frame makes them i'm very sensitive to energy it's like it gets a little bit more frenetic the and which is fine for the role

because was what was going on at the time was frenetic and you know the process for me is is always the same i dive as deep as i can. i was only in a few episodes, but that doesn't matter, you know, it doesn't matter about the amount, it just matters the quality of the content. i think so. you know, i read her autobiography, of course, there's tons of stuff you can watch. obviously very different from elizabeth keckley. so i just love but i just there's just something about her, you know, you just can't help yourself. you got to kind of love because she's just she's got all this energy and this just goodness beaming out of her and and people most powerful woman ever been in the white house. exactly yeah, well, you're this story. yeah. okay, that's me up here. matthew, let me pick it out. so but, you know, the the monochromatic suits that like that power and, you know, also just like exactly the glasses that match the suit. she's just like a in every

possible way smart as as as a whip and good handle those. like, i don't know if i can even you know anything here like the photoshop chicago from whatever she had to deal with these predominantly these men that were very tough. thank i'm trying to i don't think i got a grant i'm just getting very aggressive so but it really was a great it's a shame that showtime didn't pick up that series for another year. how many years? yeah. the first ladies had, they could do that, but not my lily. i want to. i want to turn to you now, because you professor of political science, i'm a bit of a ringer on this panel. well, what are you doing? you're not kidding. you take a very different approach to these things, but we're talking about television and film and people who have the

president and how the president is portrayed and what our expectations of what a president is or look like or at. and so i want you to to tell our audience a little bit more about how race and gender shape our pop culture presidencies. and i know you're going to i have you have a few simple slides. sure. why don't you go ahead and take that? okay. i think you just looked at green arrow greener. there we go morgan freeman. impact from, 1988.lled deep and a lot of this research comes out of this book, which is a old called women white house gender popular culture in presidential politics from the university of kentucky, no shameless advertising here who wrote that? i am one of the editors of it with dustin vaughn. in any event, i was writing a paper 2007, obama was camped out in iowa. hillary clinton was ratcheting up. clearly, she was running for

president. and i thought it was curious because i've done all this work on of television and gender roles and representation i was curious about the the portrayal of the president, men of color, perhaps, and also by women i was really looking at what who would get the nomination based on what i saw in popular culture. was it more likely to be barack obama or was it more likely to be hillary clinton? on the democratic side, 2008. and i remember when morgan freeman playedresint in this movie about an asteroid hitting the earth in 1998 called president of the united states. as you seeim there and there was another movie that came out about a week after it. y hadbeenreenlit at the same time in hollywood. in hollywood called armageddon. and billy bob thornton played the president in that. so you have asteroids hitting the earth as the narrative and

in one movie you have a black president and, one movie, you have a traditional white. and i will go through the list of many of the white presidents that we know and love or despise. and there was no controversy about the fact that morgan freeman was playing the president. granted, he had already played god. so this was like a step down. maybe. but there was a lot of controversy about the fact like to exactly the same that that had hugh huge budgets were made by different studios and came out within weeks of each other. that was the controversy, not the fact that you had, a african-american actor, playing the president, which at that point in 1998, you did not see that much of it. and so as i started to do this research. i went back and looked at the sort of deep impact. and, you know, again, you can talk about this question of representation because we're all used to seeing people like martin sheen, michael douglas

alan alda, harrison ford, kiefer sutherland, bill pullman, james cromwell, who's played the president twice, and also prince phillip once. he seems to be like the archetype for male leaders of some kind. and billy bob thornton also played it twice. that's usually the folks who get cast either on television or film as presidents. and so i was sort of looking at you know, we have this example, as i said, of morgan freeman. then i was looking a little bit forward. and at that point in 2007, we'd had dennis haysbert and d.b. woodside on the television 24 as president. but you also had chris rock as as president in the movie head of terry crews in idiocracy. and also you at that point, you would see in jimmy smits in the wing that we had talked about, sort of there's an evolving sort of cat warrior grouping.

i saw of black men or men of color who who were sort of getting into the narrative of. and so i was looking at that and and and as i was looking at that, i went a little bit, of course, as one does with historians and the there's there's a film from 1933 that also features a black president, but really the first one in the contemporary period is this movie called the man that's that stars james earl jones was made in972. it's almost impossible to watch. i found that when i was doing this resrc it was very, very difficult. find a copy of this film to, actually watch it. and i asked my friends at the library of congress dig it up for m it's written by rod sterling and it's essentially about this backbench senator who alsis college pfessor who the president, speaker of the house di. vice president beces president

of the united states accidentally because these other people sort of get out of the way and he's kind of this back bench senator who happens to be the president pro tem of the senate. so here we have a film, 1972, where the president is a black man accidentally in office. and i started sort of look at the narratives around the people who were being presented as president, aside from the white guys. and what i found was, you have this move with regard to featuring black men or men of color as who accidentally into the job. it's a long period of time where i'm watching sort of evolve over movies and film like chris rock, head of state, and then you start evolving into president. if there is a president of color who actually gets elected like dennis haysbert, david palmer on 24. so i'm noting the sort of narrative trajectory first,

there's an accidental black president or a president of color, then there are actually elected in the narrative as fictional individual is. and so then i start looking at the female presidents and if you haven't seen kisses for vice president this came out in 1964. i,ht suggest might want to see it, perhaps. because it's really about fred macmurray beche fst husband when his wife gets esn't get elected and she accidentally. she actually comes into the office. n't be president and be you pr togher. so at the end of the film, when it turns out she's pregnant resigned from the house. that's i said, you might want to watch it or you might not. so it's a little kind, backwards, forward problem.

there. but how they thought the first gentleman would dress. i guess. i guess so, yeah. and allthe male characters in this movie also very androgynous names. it's very interesting. and also see this as as again, i've sort of start to look at what's in front of me at this point. the in the late 1990s and into the 2000, as we've seen in television. and and you start to see again, if there's a female president like diana davis, commander in chief, which we also talked about this morning, she gets there accidentally. if we look at galactica, where you have a female president, she gets there accidentally. fact, she's 42nd in line of in battlestar galactica. it is, you know, again, it's it's sci fi but whatever. and then of course, you have glenn close in air force one where she doesn't actually become president. she's the vice president. she never signs the papers to

become. when harrison ford is on the plane with the terrorists and then you have joan allen in the contender her where she also you sort of anticipate that she's going to become president, but you don't actually it and so what i started to see is that there was this pattern it was really fascinating. the pattern became clear to me that african-american men and men of color had become president accidentally, and then they evolved into getting elected in fiction. women. same story. they had moved into that office accidentally and the same way they became essentially elected as we've also seen in some subsequent television and film, terry jones becomes president 24 and is elected into that office. but again, what was interesting to me was the fact that female characters this narrative was much more telescoped than it was for the black or people of color.

men, and ultimately, when i concluded my research in 2007, i said, the likelihood is barack obama gets the nomination and gets elected president. political scientists don't really like to be prognosticators. we leave to pundits, but i sort of thought i was on to something there. and so my research was really a sort of looking at not the representation issue because we've seen more people who don't look like alan alda or sheen in fiction, which also helps us if you're watching the show, imagine somebody who doesn't look like the 44 people who have been in that office before, 45 people who've been in that office before. imagine what they would look like. they looked different and we become more used to and possibly more accepting of somebody who doesn't look like the 45 white guys who have actually been in that office because we've

imagined it. we've been on these narrative rides with people who are president of the united states in fiction, and we can sort of think about that idea, give it some air and space to breathe, which i again, i think is one of the ways that barack obama was able to sort of present himself as sort of of that narrative in the early the late aughts. that is i mean, kisses from my president at individual to haunt me. yeah. sort of. well, thank you for sharing that overview of your research. one thing i was thinking about when you were talking is, you know, of course, this is cyclical, right? because we're going to continue to have elections. sure. and you know, do you care to take a wager, a guess and sort of what we could see on the horizon in terms of are we going to see a change in who could be

in that type of office in aside from, you know, who are leading candidates currently, but i mean, do you see us added another point where perhaps we can learn more from pop culture presidencies about sort of forecasting next four years, eight years? well, i mean, again, i think is art and life. go back and with one another, as we were talking about in the earlier panel on television and the fact that we have an elected vice president who happens to be a woman and happens to be a person of color, suggest that some of the sort of groundwork was laid in certain ways. having that become a little bit more normalized. we saw sarah palin run for president for vice president in 2008. we've seen, in fact, women running for president more frequently now and also individuals of color, men and women running for president more than we had sort of not only previous to obama, but to some degree previous to having the idea of who occupies that space,

that that, you know, sort of iconic space in our imagining or in our imagined minds who can be in that and have it be kind of more normalized? may i say something? go ahead. i was to run for president, but i was born in canada. so i came all. even going to dawson isn't even more than that, i swear. way too. i can't say all the time. i would never. last day want to begin running for congress instead. oh yeah. that does. this is a question for all the panelists. and feel free to respond to the question to one another's responses. but thing i was struck by is how we as moviegoers have changed our consumption habits for. film with the rise of multiple streaming services, more and more people are watching movies at home versus, going to movie theater, a trend that was accelerated by the pandemic. so how do you foresee this impacting the film and the types

of movies or shows that will be produced? and how could that impact? i mean there's a lot here. how could that impact portrayals of the presidency? so i guess getting into more of the dynamics of earlier we talked about studios, what they decide to make, how much it reflect reality or not reflect reality. and how is the movie going experience now that it is changing. how will that impact the types of shows and movies we see? i'd love to. i know we were talking about this earlier. if i jump in here because of covid, obviously everybody's changed their habits. movie viewing and streaming television shows. as some of you may know, there's a writers on right now for this very issue. it has changed the landscape financially for writers. actors as well. put it, you know, the mega there a handful of the mega streamers. we all who they are who are making the production values are huge. they're making a lot of money and it's not trickling down now on that front.

movies, actual movie theaters are you know, there's still around. some didn't make it, but there that love going to the movies. personally i think as someone who has been in this business for a very long time there are a couple of things at play economic disparity happens all the time in movies and television. you may not think it does, but it happens all the time. there's that. secondly, the you know, movie, i think people love, everybody is going to always love going to the now that streaming is here to stay is that obviously for sure that from. personally i think that if if a film opens up in the theaters first for maybe three months or something and then it's available on one of those major streamers. awesome. because then the audience gets a choice of either going to the movies, having that communal experience. and it's for me, it stays with you, can't pause it and you know, whatever. you just you're there and you have to be committed to the story and love that it stays

with you longer than that than streaming, mind you. streaming is has benefits as well. you know, when it comes to there's a new television show speaking of streaming, i hope i can. it's called the diplomat stars, keri russell. now, you didn't talk about that earlier. it's a talking about, you know, it's a great series. she's amazing. been always incredible at. the end of i'm not well, i'm not going to say what happens. but there this you know, this. possibility of becoming president. i'm not going to say how to do you know what i mean? so to your question about how is media changing? i'm curious to see the season, how that does progress. if it does. but movies are here to stay. support your movie theaters, please. and, you know, continue. enjoy streaming. we can have the best of both. but it's important to support the actual cinemas and pay the

writers and pay the actors. yes it's it's so funny bring up again. we were talking about a little bit i don't know if anyone's seen the first episode of white house plumbers on hbo. it's about, come on, guys. it was sunday night. it was mostly when you get home. it was on sunday night. it's harrelson, justin theroux. it's the story of watergate. the watergate plumbers. so it's funny now because it it's always a surprise me even though i'm in d.c. forever, how much people are interested washington. so these are of the veep writers. dave mendell, great producer, curb your enthusiasm, veep. and and they have this story. i mean, watergate. what like you got like 15 books about watergate here, right? there's so many books. but they found the story that had never been told about the plumbers who actually had broken into the offices four times, they were arrested, the whole story and nixon's fault was of

the plumbers. right. but no one actually focused on it. so all these years later and, just to your point about the story, there's still so many stories to tell. the that i worry about is for plumbers, is six or seven episodes, limited series guys know the language. there aren't that many film tv anymore, like lbj as a film. i don't know that i. i would think hbo would make it today, but you have to do it in a series because you have to amortize your costs. right. so it's a change is the production, but interest. and i watched the diplomat night the interest in political shows and presidents in people of power that interest is still there people are i think and again, i'm a cable news producer, too are more interested in washington. then you see how what happens at the white house affects them directly. it's not separate.

right. and if you think of the pillars of leadership and, by the way, the pillars of democracy you're talking about government, you're talking about media. right. this past weekend was the white house correspondents weekend and. bradley whitford was here, of course, in west wing, many other shows. and people are still lined up to talk him because they felt something about it. it's just like you mesmerized, all of us, that feeling that you get when you're watching shows together and connect and hear these stories. that's what's so what's still so important. so i with you about going to theater, i'm worried about people not going to the theaters. but i think that there's still a lot of power in and and and it's increasing because people want to know, like what's it like behind the scenes. i think watch plumbers tonight justin thoreau grew up in washington. i'll just say justin thoreau

grew up in washington, was never at the white house. you know, like for many of us that have access to come here. woody harrelson when he was in came change but like the people do not have this kind of access or to hear these stories and they find it really compelling. you know, even if you have this amazing career right to learn about things happen. yeah, i would just i would just add in terms of what gloria was also saying and and the ideas of the narrative evolving in and we saw this in madam secretary, where elizabeth mccloy becomes president in the last season of that show, we we we've seen it with regard to veep. obviously. and so you do have these narrative that also can expand. and that's one of the the the issues, the differences. when i talk about this and sort of an academic way that you tell

a three hour story or a two hour story in a film, but you can tell a 13 hour story in in a series. and sometimes they have maybe a couple episodes too many. that's all in the setup. yeah, i know. night aged nine, aged between three episodes, less. yes, that's true. i never heard of night agent. okay. do you guys see that on amazon? it's really good. and i never heard the language. night agent, the house. it's like a guy that's there answering phone at night. oh, actually, that's a crisis. yeah, it's actually really good. they're doing a second season, but i do think that there are different narratives that get told, different spaces. and so absolutely going to the movies because is also an encapsulated story whereas you know, we were talking about the fact like you would there be a reunion the west wing earlier this morning and you know, the west wing went on seven seasons. they were 23, 24 episode

seasons. you got to know all the characters really well, and that's a different experience in terms of following the narrative where you're watching it maybe you get up and go and get something to drink and come back. whereas if you're in the movie theater, you are there and you're in it. and i think that's an emotional different and that sort of pushes on different parts of our understanding, these cultural artifacts as well. yeah, it's interesting because. i feel like that's there's so many ways to get distracted, right. if watching somebody at home and there's phones and ipads and children and all kinds of things running around, you know, if you're in a movie theater, you know, you are focused on that screen. you know, it's funny, you should bring up the two screens because scandal, you know, another political show was, the first show that that played to screens that all actors were tweeting. i don't know if you guys were in of it and they were the first ones. they were also i'd like to point out jealously they were the first ones that showed the truman balcony because shonda

rhimes got, president obama, to take her up there and they shot that nothing was exactly the way the truman is never in another show not to geek out on you know come on. yeah let's go there and yeah well, i think we can all agree that we certainly need a movie or series on elizabeth keckley. yes. yes, 100%. we that as a movie. and then we all go to the movie theater together. yeah, yeah, yeah. that's why we do have some time for. audience q&a. scene one in the back over here. thank you. on button. my question is about portrayal of atrocity is steven spielberg, for instance has done a lot of movies where he talks about the holocaust and how it changes the message in for the masses in

supporting things like the u.s. commission on the holocaust or just different things when it comes to slavery and presidents message does not get through, which is the reason why, as an activist when we talk about slavery and the for a proposed u.s. commission on slavery, we're not able to get through because popular culture doesn't present it in that way or do you feel that when there's too much of a friendship, it makes it seem like it just wasn't there the way it was there? for instance, between mary lincoln and gosh, i forget her name and elizabeth. thank you. i don't know if my question is making sense to and i'm a little confused of your. are you asking if if the friendship between elizabeth keckley and mary lincoln diffuse the issue of racism, not racism, specifically slavery of slavery? i mean, yes. and also the other part of the question is, when atrocities

around. the world is portrayed is portrayed in popular culture in a way that the masses, you know, america and that we can we can feel the pain. we can understand and we can support policies about that. and to give the example of the holocaust when it comes to slavery, we're not getting that. same said, when i wanted the panels can help me. and so i totally understand. i understand what you're saying. i think that there are two separate things here for for me comment on in terms of the atrocity. clearly of slavery there there are some extraordinary films that these are very factual and extremely disturbing. and unforgettable when it comes to slavery and in terms of certain presidents during those years, i, i, i don't recall i don't know of any, but i don't know every single film that was

ever made don't know kind of how how it would obviously depend on how one goes about telling that story because you know, it has to be. i would think that it's we, we all not all of us, but, you know, we pretty much know the broad strokes, if you will. so how did you bring it into the personal story of one particular president who was dealing with something specif. fic about their webster? i don't know if i'm making much sense, but if you can kind of narrow it down to the individual stories. that can be a compelling thing. the broad strokes of it are a little bit more, i would think i'm not a filmmaker, but i would think might be a little bit more challenging to, you know, to write and to portray. but i've never thought about it in depth. perhaps there is something, an opportunity there. and when it comes to elizabeth keckley, mary lincoln and elizabeth keckley, the white

house, obviously during that time, of course, again, emancipation proclamation happened during the lincoln presidency, as did the passing of the 13th amendment and in that scene with elizabeth keckley and mary lincoln in the house of representative actually happened. elizabeth keckley was there so in this story, there is you know, again, it's elizabeth keckley life. but obviously those two extremely vital instances will be a part the storytelling. this is not a biopic on elizabeth keckley timeframe between her meeting mary lincoln the first morning of the first inauguration and after the president is assassinated. take note as well. part the story i'm going to be presenting in this film is the influx of numerous you know slaves are being freed in certain states before the right there was an influx of freed slaves, newly freed slaves, those who escaped in tennessee

and elizabeth keckley actually started a foundation, a nonprofit, to these newly freed slaves contraband association and she one of these things that i see in my head is her walking. she would go through these literally there were ten camps, you know, and talk to some of these freed slaves. and this is documented. this is part of what she and they would respond to was varied from i want to go back because i had at least i had a roof over my head and food you know to i'm so glad i'm free to the country owes me everything now right so that scope and that's going to be part of the story as well those are very specific but very important things. emancipation proclamation, 13th amendment and what was happening in the free newly freed slaves, what they were thinking during that time. i don't know. that enters your question. questions. i hope it's helpful.

you know, stories are always there's always a story to be told, but it has to be a specific it has to be the personal story, how it's connected to the to the bigger issue. that's what lands and that's what is keeps in people's minds in the front front. you have been greatly, you know, benefited from this beautiful session and hardly penniless, you know, as they have mentioned. and the talked about their perspective of the film and the president. i'm pakistani-american i came to see the realization of american presidents dream and everything you know and but at this time but i see how the films are bringing the perspective of our

founding fathers sometime i really feel that it's not the same because when i moved to america 35 years back, i had the great of those great people the presidents. and i went to see in the the same ten, because if we like to build up our character according to the founding spirit of america, then we have to that whole film is serving to america because when we go outside america, people ask, what is america? what are the presidents of? because social media definitely have brought so many things, but so many distorted things. it's not something that is a true story of america. true story of america can learn

from it. great perspectives of fathers. and i believe that you people are doing a great job specifically even of us hearing you. you are bringing your not only your voice, your true perspective. and thank you very much for your heartfelt. and i wish to congratulate the white house historical association as well. you know, thank you very much. this is dr. zulfikar cosby, and i'm also serving one pakistan's television. first tourism national tourism channel is a discover pakistan. and i'm the president of discover pakistan. thank you for your comment and your attendance. another question i high up do this one that i'm dr. john. well i haven't i'm the vice president one of the vice president of the lincoln group of dc and i to compliment you on

your portrayal of elizabeth keckley and in the affected area davis try to get her richmond to be her dressmaker and thank goodness she didn't do that. and the other thing is i'm infectious disease specialist and i want to compliment you on your portrayal of jeanne in e.r. and when i think back to it, to where we were dealing when that started, we may have affected treatment for hiv and people should go back and watch that if they haven't seen it, because they really handled hiv really well, thank you. over here. this is primarily directed to gloria reuben. you had mentioned something that i think was very important and i hope that you can expand a little bit more about it. but the economic disparity among the viewers of television and

in. some of the some of the most quality things are on these premium cable channels which are out of my budget range. and i have to wait until seven months later in order to view them on netflix. but hello, after september. i don't think i could do that anymore if because this won't be available. but yeah, so why why are so many of these pitched to to the more expensive premium television channels rather than maybe pbs? well, i, i, i, i don't know. i mean, that's not i was kind of referencing the when we were talking about the writers strike, the disparity in producers and who. but your point is well-taken because when i think about a number of these again these kind of mega-corporations that are the top or six if you will and

this i don't need to you know a they're streaming and the membership and what the that money goes to certain people and you know they're not sharing the wealth and it does it does it can it's not like network television where everybody can tune in on a 40 minute like that doesn't happen anymore because of the access and. it is a valid point. the access is not available for everyone and sometimes you know i know for myself i'll get a couple of you know especially over covid streaming things. oh well then maybe. oh well you know, that's fine. that's $6 a month, grandpa. don't do that. and then before you know, it's like, wait a minute, i'm doubling up on live. wait a second. what? how much money? let me just go through and see exactly who i'm paying to what and what am i getting from this right. so it's, it's it, you know, it's not like there's not like projects are specifically going

to specific streamers on streaming channels. it's just if you have a script and a show, who's going to buy it? who to tell that story with you? and if you get that, yes, you got to go it because it's a brutal business it takes to like steven spielberg ten years to make lincoln that steven spielberg had somebody else cast and something happened in it and then it all worked out fine. and, you know, but this stuff takes time trust me and it's not easy. and if you get to sell something, you know, to get it made, first of all, it's almost a miracle this things end up on the air. yeah, it's just it's a miracle. i understand. not everybody can afford it. maybe choose one of your. just find out what has trial. i shouldn't be saying this, but choose one. stick with it and get another one and see and get your see the new that you want to see and

cancel that subscription and go to another one. tammy i you know, people do that all the time. they do it all right. but i i think i'm going to address part of that that this shows like firstly t and v and these shows are much more expensive than even the whole idea of everything has to be accurate like we've talked about white house plumbers or veep, they had to redo those sets and all of is very, very expensive. so that's why premium channels tend to do it. and even when netflix started, if you remember when netflix started, what did they start with? house of cards, because they knew that a political show was the most powerful way to come in. but i'll tell you, we haven't talked about and i don't want to end on a doom and gloom, but if you look at prime time broadcast tv now, there would be e.r. would not. there's no way would ever exist because because the companies are taking their money and putting it into the streaming channels for the broadcast channels. you know, there's game shows and

primetime and and and cbs has a of still have a lot of dramas. but all those shows are much more expensive. so the sense is if you're putting this money into streaming, you're not putting it in to the broadcast channels. and so why you will they exist in the same will you be a network affiliate if your net like if you're an nbc affiliate right the reason you were is because you want nbc news, you want nbc primetime programing, you want the today show, you this. now, there are certain, you know, mark or type things if there's no air. right. and i jane lynch and i love those game shows but is that going to carry if you look at the numbers, that's one of the big things which makes what you said about like pick your channel and try it and then cancel and go to the net. next thing the problem also is everyone's looking at their stock price now. and so they're just cutting back on the amount of original netflix.

i mean, is there what they what they've achieved in building programs? but it's it's definitely not at least for the next year i have to say though, i really i'd been wanting to bring jeannie boulay back. i did. i wanted bring her back. 20 years later, her viral count is zero. she's living in new york. i a whole thing we'll see what happens. i know. i'm just kidding, but i would have gotten the viewers think. yeah, yeah, i would i don't. and make sure you're watching show you was giving but no you're you know those are really those are good points it a true i think we are okay we'll do the last question hello. my question is do you think that movies like white down in air force one where you the president is in trouble portray the presidency or the white house or america in a negative light to americans or around the

world. i mean, we talked a little bit about sort of the vulnerability that we're now seeing in the narrative portrayal of, the presidency in in shows in movies like white house down. but you also saw you also saw this in movies like air force one. and this goes to to some degree, not only the vulnerability of the presidency, but also a heroic ness about the presidency that's often sort of where we want to think about that space. and the person in. and so a narrative that casts this heroic individual and this office as of a as vulnerable or in a way compromised is also a really good story. and so i think that that combined with some of the conspiracy theories that we have, you know, sort of in there's like guys these days is

where we see some of this sort of coming through in portrayal of the presidency. and the president, him or herself? mm hmm. yeah. we even really get to talk about it much, but i always when i was a kid, i remember seeing independence day the best. and, you know, you see the part where the you know, the aliens blow up the white house. right. and it's pretty jarring. but like, you know, as a kid, you're like, wow, that was cool. probably aliens not supposed to say that now. yeah, because supposed to preserve the white house, but you know but i mean sci fi is another whole genre that we didn't really get to touch on a whole lot. but it's interesting that idea of vulnerability, it's almost sort of like, here's the most powerful person in the world, but they they're sort of like, help i need or i need superheroes to help. i mean, that was something we saw this morning with the panel. i'm totally interrupting you for. go for it. but what about this is? okay. the best white house movie

comedy aside, mars attacks. yeah, right. yeah, yeah, i remember. yeah. jack nicholson. so that was a pretty star studded cast. yeah, it was. yeah. yeah. well, we've gone over time, but i want to thank our panelists for this exciting