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featured. ♪ >> were joined now by mayorkas of the accountability director for forensic products investigated service here to talk about the new report looking at potential fraud within unemployment insurance and other related things. thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you for having a good morning. >> can you explain first and foremost up so people can get a sense of what youge do there, specifically what do you do? >> sure. government accountability office as the audit and investigative arm of the u.s. congress. we work at their request. also on legislated mandates in the head is the comptroller as r general of the united states reserve. some audit resources for initiatives under his authority. >> you made recent news taking a

look at pandemic related issues particularly in the area of unemployment insurance. a new report coming out before we talk about the details i will look into it. >> yes. this was set at the request of two committees the house ways and means and the senate finance committee on the republican side. excuse me. there is also great interest by the controller general as a priority issue the extent of fraud that occurred in the program he designated the uninsurance program is a high risksu area. for additional attention in terms of fraud waste and abuse inas management. that was done in june of 2022. >> and again before we talk about details during the pandemic what happened in the area of unemployment insurance?

limit endurance spending skyrocketed by the time it was all said and done. we are looking at about $900 billion in expenditures atboth the federal and state funding. over a period of time, most of the programs expired in september of 2021. that the regular program still s still in place. >> you will have to elaborate the reason for these programs might do people get money in the first place? and what happened specifically during the pandemic to extend that? >> during the pandemic a lot of people became unemployed due to covid restrictions and shutdowns. they were eligible to receive regular unemployment. in fact congress decided that needed to be supplemented but they created a number special programs as well as a program

that provided federal resources and unemployment insurance on top of the third press special programs requests talk about the numbers said you can find this it report.gov seto bagdoyan here to talk about 202-748-8001 for republicans (202)748-8002 for independence for you can also is text us your questions or comments 2027488003. from the report i will reach of the top lines you can fill in the blanks about that. estimatedud in those programs during that t 100 billion, one to 35 billy some cases. that represent about 11% and 15% respectively of total amount of ui benefaid out. it also adds the full extent of this type of fraud will never be known with certainty could you elaborate on most three points. >> sure.

the8- estimate is a point in tie estimates. it's innovative the methodology was very complex. we created this at the request of our congressional clients. and of course given the nature of fraud it is insidious nature and the fact that it takes a long time to investigate fraud cases. that makes it really difficult to pin down exactly the magnitude. so the estimatesim are the best guests basically in terms of quantifying the extent of fraud. it is designed to gain attention from federal and state lawmakers to take fraud risks seriously and act responsibly to help manage the risk. >> i suppose there are a lot of avenues this could have been

done but typically how does this type of fraud occur? >> many cases involve stolen identity of actual people that fraudsters compromised and used for their own purposes. there are also instances of fake identities or synthetic identities as they are called. these are people that are totally fake. yet they do apply and receive benefits because to be candid many of the control such as they were for the unemployment insurance program worked relaxed or discarded in order to get the benefits out quickly. >> elaborate on that please. >> many of the claims were paid based on self reporting without any independent corroboration of

the information the applicant was providing so essentially it's writing a blank check without checking think anything behind the application. so that made the risk even greater. >> one of the things you found on the report as well -- i will read a portion of that say ui system space long-standing challengesf of proam integrity that worsened during the covi pandemic. the response to the job loss with the programs to provide relief for t unempye the unprecedented demand and to quickly implement the program increase the risk of fraud. >> that is right. >> could go on from there? >> yes. that risk lies in the fact the control for identity eligibility and so on. there relaxed or discontinued in order to ensure speed of getting those benefits. there are tens of millions that

were unemployed. and legitimate needs for assistance. the fraudsters took advantage of that situation and submitted false applications are the stolen identities as i mentioned those were not protected at all in terms of the controls because they were essentially nonexistent. >> government democrats like you are on with the guest go ahead with your question for him or comment. >> hello good morning think of jay mccall today. i just have one question. i think it's a question americans are having. we see time after time after time into fraud. government spending, government giving out things, the same investigations with you the

degree they have displayed for the government taking on these backdoor loans is never investigation to them. but there's constant constant investigation into the little guy for the common american people you understand that. it's a constant constant investigation into the common american people but never to the people behind her ups the what and 2% there pick the wealth and power. this has been a big divide. the haves and have-nots we wish their being investigated more as well for this constant investigation into the little guy. i will hang up and take your play off-line thank you so much. >> thank you for your question. it is a good question. i would note the offices of inspector general of the various executive branch agencies have the principal responsibility for investigating allegations of fraud. but the individual level and the

business level and for example e small business administration inspector general dispensed over $8 trillion to businesses around the country. there have been many allegations of fraud in fact the inspector general recently estimated that over $200 billion may have been a loss to fraud in the payment protection plan. as well as the economic injury disaster loan program known as ppp and that is a significant amount of fraud. the inspector general has many, many cases open that they are continuing to investigate as we speak. >> is a viewer on twitter i will paraphrase the question for you, these kind of monies were lost

in the unemployment insurance because of fraud does that meet other people who should have gotten that many didn't? >> it is possible this resources could have been allocated to those with legitimate need. obviously according to our estimate over $100 billion was lost that could have been diverted to legitimate purposes. so sure, you can make that argument too. >> big brexit tweets there from leaf one of our viewers giving us questions via x if you want too post there as well. nor out, from florida republican line you're on go-ahead. >> thank you very much for my opportunity. i am talking about our social security the accountability for that. i am 93 years old now. i worked until i was 80 and then i came up with cancer i am still under medical treatment for,

facing my seventh chemo. they talk about stopping our social security. and that is my only income. that is my main complaints appear to have a lot of complaints about this administration because nora, thank you for that. you can respond to it. >> unfortunately i cannot comment on social security and whether it will continue to exist that's a policy decision way way beyond my pay grade. >> democrats client jasper you are on with our guest. >> good morning peter wanted to call and i want to put -- i am retired now but at the time those cards were coming in and people were making up names as me being a regular carrier i knew these themes are fraudulent so we weren't delivering them that so much harassment from these companies these people on the street who were looking for the card to did not live on our

routes. we need to make if this happens we need to make another program to ensure this doesn't happen again. our lives are and put at risk at or some of these dangerous areas because people are coming out there looking for these cards. when you different kind of system next time to make sure this doesn't happen but. >> think it will take his points once this type of fraud is discovered the money is already gone. what are the steps the divisions of the labor department take in order to recover it? >> the unemployment insurance recovery is principally a state function. as you may know the unemployment insurance program at large is a federal/state partnership. there are 53 state workforce agencies that are worse bondable for dispensing insurance benefits. during regular operations. and they, as the report poi