"washington journal"

continues. host: our focus now on the federal employees that would be impacted the government shutdown. how many federal workers do you represent? >> about 750,000 federal ndc government workers. >> of those, how many would be furloughed during a government shutdown? guest: that is a question that is unknown at this time. the last shut down, that was about 800,000 federal workers

furloughed -- i am sorry, affected. half were furloughed. half went to work and just did not get paid. host: we are four days away from a shut down. you federal employees know at this point whether they would be furloughed or considered essential employees? or are those plants still being put together? guest: in some cases, they know and are making preparations for what could happen. host: what are you telling your union members to expect? how should they be planning? guest: first, i am remaining hopeful. i am telling them to continue to call congress and ask them to not allow a shutdown to occur. i am telling them to prepare in the event that a shutdown occurs , prepare financially as best you can. as we know, it is hard for

workers in america to prepare to not have a paycheck, but the best that you can, try to prepare. we are trying to make sure we provide information or resources for employees that might be affected as we did during the last shut down. guest: -- host: we had a call or talking about the shutting down and reopening process, saying it is disruptive on the front and back side of that there there is so much waste in that process. these shutdown plans, can you talk through how it is affecting your workers and what they are telling you? >> it is a psychological effect on our workers. they continue to have to deal with this issue year after year and it has a psychological effect. it is confusing to them to have to deal with the fact that they

could be shut down for no apparent reason, so that would be my answer. there is a psychological effect on them. host: a shutdown is about a lot of things. one of the issues is about the size of the federal government. do you think the federal government is too big right now? guest: not at all. i think the federal government is understaffed. they need to consider how to staff the federal government so the american people can receive the services it deserves. host: what is an example of the federal government being understaffed? guest: i am thinking particularly about the social security administration now. they are very much understaffed. a lot of times, claims are not processed adequately because they are not staffed adequately. host: everett kelley is the

national president of the american federation of government employees. he is with us until the top of the hour. if you want to join the conversation, phone lines are open. democrats, it is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. then a special line for federal workers, keeping that line open in this segment, (202) 748-8003. start calling in now. back to federal workers, if -- whether you are an essential employee or furloughed, you would not be receiving a paycheck, but you could expect to receive back pay after the government reopens. is that correct? guest: you would receive back pay eventually. i do not know if employees will ever be made whole in the event

that a shutdown occurs because number one, as i have said, federal employees are no different than the rest of america. 60% of americans live from paycheck-to-paycheck and the people i represent are no different. missing one paycheck sets you back. you have to figure out how to feed your family, how to even get to work because the cost to go back to fort -- back and forth to work. then went backpay finally arrives, it is one lump sum that puts you in a different tax bracket. host: what would you say to folks who question why somebody would not be working during a shutdown -- why should they get backpay? guest: because ultimately they are being locked out of a job, not because they do not want to go to work but they have been locked out of their job. i encourage congress to look at

what happened with the senate. they gave congress a way out and i think that is what we should be asking congress to do, to make sure they do not yet locked out of a job. host: we talked about that in the first segment of the washington journal, about the short-term funding bill to keep the federal government open, a bipartisan measure yesterday. we are talking with everett kelley this morning. we have the special line for federal ploy use. michael is on that line out of maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? i wanted to bring some light to the shutdown, a part that i did not know affected us. both of my kids go to daycare on

two bases that are close by. if the government shutdown, we still have to pay for the childcare, but the kids are home with us because on the base everybody is furloughed. i do not know if other people are experiencing that, people who send kids to federal day cares and still have to pay for that. it is about $900 for our daughter and about $1500 for my son. host: mr. kelley? guest: that is the point. thank you for calling. the point is that so many areas are affected by the shutdown that the average person is not aware of. thank you for bringing that to the attention of the american public. they will be affected in so many ways. host: in washington, d.c., this is mary come alive for democrats.

-- mary, live for to mcgrath's. -- democrats. caller: i am a retired federal worker. i know that social security will not be impacted, but will retired federal workers -- will be get paid? guest: you will get a paycheck as a retiree. that is not going to be an issue. social security itself will be affected. the workforce will be affected, but you will get paid. if that is an issue with your paycheck, i do not know how you would address that. that is something we have to be concerned about, or if there is a new claim in social security that is something we need to be concerned about. host: social security checks

would still go out. it is just that processing new claims, and that happens every day, that would not happen during a shutdown. jack is next out of wisconsin, republican. caller: my question was on backpay. federal employees take-home money at a given time. guest: they get paid at some point, but in the process of recouping from loans or what have you because they did not get paid on time -- just imagine. this is what i ask everybody to do. imagine payday shows up. it comes around and you expect a paycheck but you do not get the paycheck. you still have bills. you still have child care. you still have all these things. getting paid at some point does

not make a person home. a -- hole. a person living from paycheck-to-paycheck and all of a sudden you get paid maybe three weeks, maybe -- i do not know how long it will last. whatever it is, you get paid a lump sum that pushes you into a different tax bracket. federal employees would never be made whole in a situation like that. caller: instead of doing the lump sum, can they give you three paychecks or a week or a few days? guest: but that is not the process. it would be nice, but that is not the process. caller: the federal government makes the process. so why don't they make the process where it is fair to the people that are not working? guest: if we could get congress to do things that simple, we would be doing a mighty good job. that is what i'm asking them to do. do something good for the people not working. host: federal employee line,

this is david, pensacola, florida. caller: i am retired. i was with the u.s. to part and of justice. host: what is your question or comment for mr. kelley? caller: i'm not going to engage in ad hominem attacks but i want to say this man is an embarrassment to all federal employees. i want to apologize to the american taxpayer who is required to save up for a rainy day. when i came in, i was considered an essential worker. if the government shut down, i was still required to work. government employees are very well compensated. this man makes it sound like they are basically in a form of slavery and that is not true. the one thing i want to point out -- he talks about being made hole. every time the government shut down, it is not shut down for six months to a year. federal employees are well compensated.

if they know how to save like the private sector is required to, they should have money. if you are being pushed into a different tax bracket, you are obviously being compensated well enough. poor people do not have to worry about tax brackets. another thing, and i called about this a long time ago, during the last government shutdown it was on c-span. this was a congressman giving and anecdotal evidence about not an airline worker, air traffic control. he said on the floor of congress that this guy had to sell blood to make enough gas money to get to his job. is that someone you think is competent enough to handle air traffic? i do not think so but i want to apologize to the american people. >> thank you for your comment. however, i think there is a lot

of misguided people in the world that do not understand that people are people. everybody is not the same. it has nothing to do with slavery. it has to do with a person's responsibility. people do not realize the last shutdown, this economy was hit with about $11 billion. when you do not have $5 billion a week going out into the economy, it affects everyone. i'm sorry you feel that way, but it is your opinion and right to have that opinion. i just think those are misguided thoughts. host: just about 10 minutes left with everett kelley. (202) 748-8000 for democrats to call in. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents, it is (202) 748-8002.

if you are a federal employee, (202) 748-8003 a non-shutdown related question, although a shutdown in the form of an auto worker strike. i want to get your thoughts on president biden's joining those united autoworkers on the picket line yesterday and what is being called an unprecedented visit by a president. guest: i think that was money mental. i applaud the president for making such a statement, that he stands with america's workforce. i think that it has a lot of bearing on where it workforce would go moving forward. i think it will encourage people to understand the necessity of being part of the labor force. and to have a union to represent you to ensure you are treated with fairness, dignity, and respect on the job. host: i want to hear your

opinion about the column in usa today. biden scrambling to out union trump, saying it was days before biden announced his trip to the picket line that former president trump said he was going to detroit to talk to some of the same union members making that trip and skipping that second republican debate to make that trip. guest: i did not quite understand your question. host: in terms of out-unioning trump, who is more prounion, joe biden or donald trump? guest: trump did not do anything to assist unions, in my opinion. bar none, this president has been a tremendous help and assistance to unions. under the trump administration, he put forth some executive orders that took away powers of

unions, especially my union. the first day on the job, this president revoked those executive orders and gave us powers organize and to represent our members. this was taken away by the former president. host: back to the line for federal workers, this is clayton. caller: the marian v.a. -- i am one of the lowest paid employees here. i cannot exactly save money like he expects us to. reagan did make it so we cannot go on strike, but we could go on strike we could prevent the whole government shut down

because the government would be afraid of us again. is there a reason why our union has never done anything to get us to be able to strike again? guest: thank you for your comments. i appreciate you on the work you do every day. a lot people do not realize that as a federal employee you are not paid a bunch of money. some of our people make about $34,000 a year on average. imagine living in a metropolitan city where you have to pay for transit to get back and forth to work and then housing, daycare. it becomes important to save money. i agree with you and i appreciate you. i appreciate what you do every day. i will continue to stand here and rep you. as you know, we take an oath as a federal employee and we know we cannot strike and we do not even talk strike. we try to make sure we get

benefits that are been -- our members need through congress. that is what we are doing here today. we are calling on congress to do the right thing. take a look at what the senate did in a bipartisan way. they came up with a way to keep the government open through november 17. i think congress should look at ways to do that and also keep federal employees off the chopping block every year. that is the issue here. the issue is federal employees should not be used as political ponds and put in this political theater because they want to do their job. it is not that we do not want to do it. it is not that we want to work without getting paid and create other issues. that is not the issue. the issue is should federal employees be allowed to go to their job and do their job for the american people because it is what the american people need

and deserve? host: when you say we cannot strike, is that union bylaw? is that a federal law? is that something you believe federal employees should not do? guest: it is a federal law and we will abide by that. we will not even talk about striking. we do expect congress to do their job. host: george in washington, you are on. caller: you are right about them not being made whole. anybody is going to have to pay interest to make ends meet well they are not being paid. guest: thank you and i appreciate your comments. we will continue to try and get the congress understand that issue. host: could federal employees apply for unemployment benefits while they are furloughed, if

they are furloughed in a shutdown? what happens to the benefits once they are made whole? guest: i do not think we will be able to apply for those, no. host: to new jersey, this is sharon, and independent. caller: we bring in $5 trillion a year. we spent a $7 trillion a year. the last administration gave a permanent tax cut of $2 trillion a year to the american oligarch billionaires. now politicians get paid off because we do not hear what is going on. the american billionaires do not have to pay their fair share and they hurt our country doing it and they do not care about the working force. i believe they should stand up. last time we had a zero balance and budget deficit, they paid

35%. now they are paying zero. they heard our country and they don't care about the working force. i believe they should stand up and last time we had a deficit they paid 35% and now they are paying zero. that's not fair. they should pay their fair share in the american people should wake up and stop being punched in the face by these american billionaires that fly in the face and do whatever they want to do by hurting the american people. that's all i had to say that if i'm wrong somebody can stand up and say i'm wrong but i'm not wrong. >> any thoughts? >> i totally agree. another federal employee of the palm harbor florida, good morning. >> good morning. how were you guys?

i'm a retired postal worker and i think you got the wrong person here today. the federal employees will get compensated and whoever doesn't have any extra funds has bigger problems than the shutdown. i'm not required to work and that's fine. the economy, the hurting of the economy you have a person who works at the federal building or the restaurants you don't get people to come generally -- any federal employee could save -- save something. guest: i appreciate the sentiments from the brother. however, i think again the point is being missed. these employees are not saying i do not want to go to work. they have been told we will not allow you to go to work and you will not get paid. that is the issue people need to understand. host: tonya has been waiting out

of seattle. line for republicans. caller: your guest has stated about the employees not refusing to go into workplace, the government workplace. i want to ask him, why is it that the government is not allowing i.c.e. to do their job done on the border? i want to say i encourage the government shutdown. shut the shindig down. shut the party down. shut the party with his wild spending out of control, the taxpayer dollars that are -- social security is not going to the american people. we are getting some of the dollars, but social security offices -- there are foreign

nationals that is on the bus for receiving social security. i am frankly with the -- host: we are running short on time and i want to give mr. kelley a chance to respond. guest: thank you for your comments. again, i think you are incorrect. i.c.e., they are doing their job on the border. now there will be more people and agencies affected than just social security. you have veterans that go to war and they give their lives and come back and we are in a shutdown and they cannot be serviced. that is not right. veterans do not deserve that. i'm a veteran myself and i expect if i go to the process of claims because i have disability

or what have you, that the veterans administration should be there and prepared to take care of me. you are talking about food safety, air quality all these types of things that will be food safety, all these things that will be affected in the event of a shutdown. we expect america to be the best country in the world. you do not do is i'm not funding your government. -- you do not do that by not